vibroman

F1 2019 and E too

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, WCB said:

You realize he was in the grass right?  

Yes makes it worse. The rear would have stepped out and blocked the entire track.

I bet you drive a FWD or AWD. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There’s a difference between lifting your foot and braking. In fact, I never suggested that SV decelerate.   I was suggesting that he stop accelerating until such time as LH could continue his racing line un-impeded.  A constant velocity does destabilize the car.  SV was accelerating b/c he lost speed crossing the grass and LH was going faster.  That acceleration and the turn of the wheel to the right after stabilizing the car is the key bit of evidence.  

Remember the on-board video shows SV turning left until he looked at his sideview mirror and saw LH. Then he straightened the wheel allowing the car to drift into LH.     He was required to leave a lane for the faster/overtaking car which has all of the rights under the rule.  The stewards determined that SV could have stayed left.  Not doing so was a breach of the rules 

Those are the rules.  Hate the rules. Not the judges/stewards. 

Not penalizing SV would be asking the PRO/RC to overlook port starboard incidents when the starboard boat is less liked or in order make the sport of sailing more interesting to watch.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Student_Driver said:

There’s a difference between lifting your foot and braking.  

 The stewards determined that SV could have stayed left.  Not doing so was a breach of the rules 

Those are the rules.  Hate the rules. Not the judges/stewards. 

Not penalizing SV would be asking the PRO/RC to overlook port starboard incidents when the starboard boat is less liked or in order make the sport of sailing more interesting to watch.  

Lifting off in an F1 car is as good as braking and would have spun the car.

The stewards are wrong for the above reason. 

The rules are meant for deliberate actions not gathering up a car on an off track excursion that is still out of control when it re-enters. 

Can't compare boat racing rules to F1. Not the same thing. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And turning the wheel right after gaining control?  That was unavoidable?

“The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.

The stewards also used an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international television feed, showing Vettel moving his head and looking in the mirrors to see Hamilton was during the moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

On board footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head turning towards the mirrors in the moment when he is  driver was caught out by his rival's actions.”

In sailing the standard is not maneuvers which exceed the laws of physics or human capability.  Rather the standard is seamanlike IIRC.  The stewards with access to more data and experience than you or I determined that he could have stayed left and/or avoided LH.  Opinions differ. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, stinky said:

Vettel cracks under pressure again. 

The call was right by the letter of the law, but it all would have been avoided if Vettel had don the sporting thing and let Lewis by after running off the track. Not right to cut corners after you screw the pooch and end up with an advantage afterwards.

The letter of the law was meant for areas with run off. SV had no where to go. Grass and track and walls. Grow the fuck up.....oh I'm sorry I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

8 hours ago, WCB said:

Actually...they're saying that the reason he got a penalty was because after gaining control of his car he looked right and turned right to block Hamilton so there goes that theory that he didn't intentionally block Ham.  Apparently there's a camera view on the car that we don't see that they must have for situations like this and that's what helped them make their decision and why it took so long.

I love the Sky slow motion analysts.. At the speeds they are driving at, you and I cannot fathom wht they are trying to control.

4 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

Merc or Ferrari, Ferrari or Merc is not the point at this point. Formula 1 is doomed if the first time we get to see two of the sport's best go at it, the stewards make the call on the winner. Yes Seb over drove the car but got it gathered back up. The "unsafe return rule" is not meant for this kind of racing incident. 

 

You are right F1 is doomed because MONEY is everything and Mercedes has way more than Ferrari.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Opinions are divided not uniform.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

Joyon and Rossenburg agree with the Stewards. Joyon’s article in the link above is very detailed and logical.  

Interesting to read the comments below the articles and also on the F1 forum.  There is clearly a debate and there seems to be an approximate balance in opinions.  

It seems that this is really about dissatisfaction with the rules and a concern that they are applied inconsistently.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if the Stewards would have made the call, if Lewis had not mentioned them to his team, on the radio?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/144007/video-should-vettel-penalty-prompt-a-rule-change

Interesting point of view. In a video interview, three auto racing journalists agree that the letter of the law was violated by SV but they also argue that there is strong support from the general public, fan base and some professionals to change to rules to allow more exciting racing. From my POV, making mistakes like going completely off track or cutting a corner(s) should attract a penalty of some sort otherwise F-1 could become an off road rally event as drivers cut any corner which will save time or gain advantage. Having a car 're-enter' safely seems very sensible.

As Joyon puts it, the dilemma is as follows.

1) either Joyon's re-entry was unsafe which explains why he could not avoid LH or

2) he was under control of the car and intentionally ran LH up to the wall. Given that LH was overlapped and going faster, SV would have had to leave a car's width on track for LH or he'd be breaking another rule.

That's the problem for SV. Can't have it both ways. Essentially when SV claimed that he had dirt on his tires and could only follow the racing line into LH w/o spinning/crashing etc, then he's essentially saying that he did not re-enter 'safely'

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

Yes makes it worse. The rear would have stepped out and blocked the entire track.

I bet you drive a FWD or AWD. 

Ha! Says the guy from San Diego with dry roads 365 days a year.  Don't worry about my knowledge of cars and how they handle in off road excursions.

When I was driving across Wyoming two years ago in a rented Suburban and I hit black ice at 70mph, I sure as fuck let off the gas, counter-steered and guess what happened, I saved it and didn't end up stuck in the snow filled median like so many others that day. For you San Diego folks, ice is not just for your frozen margaritas, it's water that becomes rock hard and slippery on the roads when exposed to temperatures below 32F.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

The letter of the law was meant for areas with run off. SV had no where to go. Grass and track and walls. Grow the fuck up.....oh I'm sorry I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

I love the Sky slow motion analysts.. At the speeds they are driving at, you and I cannot fathom wht they are trying to control.

You are right F1 is doomed because MONEY is everything and Mercedes has way more than Ferrari.

 

 

Screen Shot 2019-06-09 at 12.54.35 PM.png

File_from_iOS.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, billy backstay said:

I wonder if the Stewards would have made the call, if Lewis had not mentioned them to his team, on the radio?

Well everyone has been complaining about the lack of engine noise, so all the whining from LH and SV is just making up for it. :lol:

Most of the races this season have pretty fucking dull, we’re just getting spoon fed some more manufactured crap. They need the distraction. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, WCB said:

Ha! Says the guy from San Diego with dry roads 365 days a year.  Don't worry about my knowledge of cars and how they handle in off road excursions.

When I was driving across Wyoming two years ago in a rented Suburban and I hit black ice at 70mph, I sure as fuck let off the gas, counter-steered and guess what happened, I saved it and didn't end up stuck in the snow filled median like so many others that day. For you San Diego folks, ice is not just for your frozen margaritas, it's water that becomes rock hard and slippery on the roads when exposed to temperatures below 32F.

Wow a suburban huh, that's awesome. I held a CAMS appendix J racing license 1981-82, a WERA 600cc road racing license 1986, trained in 2 Liter Renault Group cars in the late 90's and lots of karts before turning to racing boats.   

Yeah your right, I don't know shit.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I lifted this from the F1 FB page

Quote

Martin Brundle: 
It was a poor decision from the stewards to hand an in-race five-second penalty to Sebastian Vettel in Montreal.
I don't believe a penalty was due, but even so they could have investigated it after the race with the benefit of more time and data, and after speaking with both drivers.
Vettel did lose control of the car which instigated the whole issue. Whether it was turbulence from the backmarkers in front, something on the track surface, or carrying a fraction too much speed, the back of his car stepped out.
It was not a big error, and certainly no greater than Lewis Hamilton's as he locked his brakes several times at the turn 10 hairpin and ran wide. Only a racing driver knows how it feels when a car unexpectedly snaps away like that

From Drive Tribe

Quote

WOLFF SAYS HE WAS SURPRISED BY THE STEWARDS DECISION TO PENALISE VETTEL

Mark Bauwens posted in HOME OF F1
1 day ago

Mercedes Benz have now won all 7 GP's of 2019. The next in France favours Mercedes Benz.

Yesterday's Montreal GP was all set to be a brilliant edge of the seat race with both Mercedes Benz and Ferrari genuinely able to win it.

Tyres and a lack of track grip were an issue for all drivers and both Hamilton and Vettel had had moments on the track.

Lap 48, Vettel in the lead, with Hamilton pushing in the corners where Mercedes Benz have an advantage, made a small mistake and momentarily left the track and went over the grass. He then succeeded in correcting two slides as he rejoined the track with his elbows out, which is common GP style, ahead of Hamilton forcing him to brake.

Wolff made a formal complaint to the stewards after Hamilton had complained "it was so dangerous".

After due deliberation the stewards handed down a 5sec penalty to Vettel which "robbed" Vettel and Ferrari of their first win of this season and also fans and viewers of what had been the best race of the season and destroyed a resurgent Ferrari.

To his credit, Vettel did not unravel on track as he has done in the past when things don't go his way.

But the stewards decision risks Liberty Media and the entire F1 circus unravelling as it was seen as being totally unjust, unfair and unnecessary by many fans and expert commentators.

Will Liberty now have to react and introduce a panel of all recent ex F1 driver stewards who attend at each GP for the sake of expertise, consistency and regularity?

In this case the stewards were two locals as is usual and Emanuele Pirro an Italian who had driven in F1 in '90 & 91 but is best known for 5 Le Mans victories and 3 Touring car championships.

The collective decision of the stewards was unanimous.

F1 cars now corner so much quicker than they did in the '90's and there is so much more to do with settings which change during the course of the lap and over the race as a whole. There is no time to think, its just reaction driving on "autopilot".

Vettel would not have had any time to make any conscious decisions.

The stewards found that apparently, according to slow motion recordings that Vettel had corrected an oversteer slide with right steering lock rejoining the circuit, he then applied left lock to follow the radius of the corner but that crucially he took some lock off to move out to the right, they thought, and in the process cut Hamilton off causing him to brake.

At the time, I wrote that I considered the incident to be nothing more than a racing incident and not deserving of any penalty.

Wolff has been quoted as admitting he was "surprised" by the stewards decision.

Many ex F1 driver commentators, professional commentators, enthusiasts and viewers who saw the incident, watched the repeats over and over just saw a car leaving the circuit, rejoining and continue racing. Nothing more and nothing less.

My drivers view remains that Vettel left the circuit out of control, he skillfully saved the slide off, went over the grass at very high speed, rejoined the track sliding and barely in control, continued racing, then in the left hander he reduced lock to avoid another slide with worn tyres covered in grass on a slippery track.

No penalty was deserved. Vettel made a mistake. Wolff made a mistake. Pirro made a mistake.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I certainly did. Daniel had to brake hard to avoid being forced into the wall. Stewards called it a racing incident and no further action. 

Time and again drivers, fans and others call to Let them race.  Sometimes they do  sometimes that don’t  Monaco was a racing incident.  Max’s unsafe release that damaged Bottas’ car was a trivial slap.  Vettel’s 5 second penalty decided the race.  Consistency in officiating is a pretty important thing and F-1 stewards are too far from consistent.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

So how many of you twats thought HAM deserved a penalty for this?

 

 

3 years ago, give it a rest!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Meat Wads linked story:

"Will Liberty now have to react and introduce a panel of all recent ex F1 driver stewards who attend at each GP for the sake of expertise, consistency and regularity?"

 

That sounds to me like an excellent idea, and something like that should be undertaken ASAP!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Seb had let Lewis by and got back to racing, do you think the stewards would have let that fly?

Do the stewards have the ability to instruct the driver to give up the place?

For me, Seb f'ed up and need to lose the position, but a 5 second penalty effectively turns it into a parade.  if you drop the position, at least the racing is still on.

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Thistle3868 said:

If Seb had let Lewis by and got back to racing, do you think the stewards would have let that fly?

Do the stewards have the ability to instruct the driver to give up the place?

For me, Seb f'ed up and need to lose the position, but a 5 second penalty effectively turns it into a parade.  if you drop the position, at least the racing is still on.

 

Yes, if he had moved aside and let LH past, the stewards would likely have done nothing. And I've said it before, I agree, the stewards should have only made him give up a spot which they can do.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I certainly did. Daniel had to brake hard to avoid being forced into the wall. Stewards called it a racing incident and no further action. 

Time and again drivers, fans and others call to Let them race.  Sometimes they do  sometimes that don’t  Monaco was a racing incident.  Max’s unsafe release that damaged Bottas’ car was a trivial slap.  Vettel’s 5 second penalty decided the race.  Consistency in officiating is a pretty important thing and F-1 stewards are too far from consistent.

 

 

 Don't the racing stewards change from race to race?  That could be part of the problem.  I've definitely seen Vettel get off with a few things and everybody chalks it up to him driving a Ferrari.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, WCB said:

 Don't the racing stewards change from race to race?  That could be part of the problem.  I've definitely seen Vettel get off with a few things and everybody chalks it up to him driving a Ferrari.

 

From the article posted above.  I like the idea of requiring they be ex- F1 drivers.

 

"In this case the stewards were two locals as is usual and Emanuele Pirro an Italian who had driven in F1 in '90 & 91 but is best known for 5 Le Mans victories and 3 Touring car championships."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

consistency = professional stewards, same ones for every race, no matter where...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Trovão said:

consistency = professional stewards, same ones for every race, no matter where...

 

Agreed! Should be a paid position.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Trovão said:

consistency = professional stewards, same ones for every race, no matter where...

Also agreed. It's odd that so many of the people stay the same and yet the stewards can change. At least if it's the same group, the racers would know what they can and can not get away with after learning the stewards a little.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Meat Wad said:

anyone watching the 24 hr Le Mans??

10:37:00 to go

I check in with it from time to time between kids shows and my wife trying to finish watching the French Open a week later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, footlong said:

Mercedes will get the pole and win the race.

Thast ist if she gettes home at reasonabelle houre....                   :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Procession. I get that the Mercs are dominant but LH is at a completely different level again. Bottas looked pretty beaten after the race. Leclerc showed that ferrari are really not that far off. Vettel continues to look average and needs to focus hard on his driving. You get the impression that Canada remains a distraction for him. Of course he got married last week too. On the other hand LH goes to Paris on thursday to do fashion type stuff and attend a memorial service but comes back, turns it on and dominates. Great race for the Mclarens and Danny Ric made it exciting on the last lap shame he was penalized for it.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/21/2019 at 12:25 PM, footlong said:

Mercedes will get the pole and win the race.

This

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, vibroman said:

 Leclerc showed that ferrari are really not that far off.

19 seconds off the leader.  That might as well be another zipcode.   

There has to be some frustration among all the other drivers when you go to a race knowing that you are really fighting for third place, maybe second .....maybe...  thats a complete mind fuck...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

F1 needs to:

Get rid of 20 man tire changes.

Simplify the wings.

Get rid of tire warmers. 

Everything now is designed to protect the leader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with most of this.  Was at Road America for the Indy race last weekend.  Three things jumped out at me. 

First, it seems as the indy aero package are better at dealing with dirty air.  Most likely b/c they live in dirty air on the ovals, but it was clear that they could sit on a gearbox and wait to pounce.

Second, the fuel requirement forced a 3 stop race resulting in divergent strategies on tires, etc.  It was interesting to watch those calls play out.

Third, push to pass.  I prefer the indy model of a timed amount of boost vs. the F1 drs rules.

We watched the F1 race in the am, then shifted to Indy.  From a racing perspective, Indy was FAR more entertaining. (outside of Rossi just going nuts)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things...

Fueling restrictions limit the ability of the drivers to run the car at the limit. Remove the fuel consumption limits and allow the guys to run hard.

Reduce the Aero to allow the car to follow in dirty air. 

Sunday was a yawnfest. Indy car at RA and NASCAR at Sonoma was much better racing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I get they were 19 seconds off Hamilton but not so much to the other merc. I think Ham is that much quicker than everyone right now. He has the ability to find time even when the car is not perfect. For example last lap...hundredths away from fastest lap on well used hards vs Vettel on brand new softs? The rest of them can be quick when the car is perfect... Vettel, Bottas etc etc. but they crumble when things are not perfect. It seems Ham just gets it done. I agree with the mind fuck comment.  We see flashes of Ham from Verstappen and now Leclerc but they need to be more consistent.

Not so sure they are that fuel limited. Bigger fuel load capability this year. Anyway the lack of refueling has driven the development of the 50% efficient ICE which is amazing and has direct application to the rest of us. That's one of the appeals for me, the level of engineering and technology that goes into these things. I would hate to see it dumbed down too far.

Currently it's all about tires and aero. I think replace a chunk of the current aero grip with a bunch of mechanical grip and you will enable cars to follow. They already have push to pass etc. Not sure I agree with the 20 man tire change comment, that's part of the spectacle,  there is something about 4 tires in less than 2 seconds that never ceases to amaze me. Thats an awful lot going on in a very short period.  I believe they are getting rid of the warmers 2021. Formula 2 has already ditched them. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, footlong said:

F1 needs to:

Get rid of 20 man tire changes.

Simplify the wings.

Get rid of tire warmers. 

Everything now is designed to protect the leader.

F1 is nothing but a money game.

They really need to give the back markers more time for testing and more $$$.

The top teams have too much money and time to get'er done. Hell, Mercedes has more money than anyone because of car sales. 
The Factory team of Mercedes should not be allowed. Red Bull and Ferrari, would make a great show and Hass is right there.

F1 has become boring, except for the Qualifying. 
Qualifying is the most exciting part of F1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, vibroman said:

I get they were 19 seconds off Hamilton but not so much to the other merc. I think Ham is that much quicker than everyone right now. He has the ability to find time even when the car is not perfect. For example last lap...hundredths away from fastest lap on well used hards vs Vettel on brand new softs? The rest of them can be quick when the car is perfect... Vettel, Bottas etc etc. but they crumble when things are not perfect. It seems Ham just gets it done. I agree with the mind fuck comment.  We see flashes of Ham from Verstappen and now Leclerc but they need to be more consistent.

Not so sure they are that fuel limited. Bigger fuel load capability this year. Anyway the lack of refueling has driven the development of the 50% efficient ICE which is amazing and has direct application to the rest of us. That's one of the appeals for me, the level of engineering and technology that goes into these things. I would hate to see it dumbed down too far.

Currently it's all about tires and aero. I think replace a chunk of the current aero grip with a bunch of mechanical grip and you will enable cars to follow. They already have push to pass etc. Not sure I agree with the 20 man tire change comment, that's part of the spectacle,  there is something about 4 tires in less than 2 seconds that never ceases to amaze me. Thats an awful lot going on in a very short period.  I believe they are getting rid of the warmers 2021. Formula 2 has already ditched them. 

 

 

Bottas DID have a misfire for the last 6-7 laps, which is what allowed Leclerc to close in so much- but your point about LH is still well taken...

And I agree with you re: the levels of technology- that's the main draw to me as well... I think a maybe compromise of keeping the no refueling but allowing certain times (or a total amount of time during a race) that drivers could exceed the fuel flow rate would be akin to a 'push to pass'... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, vibroman said:

I get they were 19 seconds off Hamilton but not so much to the other merc. I think Ham is that much quicker than everyone right now. He has the ability to find time even when the car is not perfect. For example last lap...hundredths away from fastest lap on well used hards vs Vettel on brand new softs? The rest of them can be quick when the car is perfect... Vettel, Bottas etc etc. but they crumble when things are not perfect. It seems Ham just gets it done. I agree with the mind fuck comment.  We see flashes of Ham from Verstappen and now Leclerc but they need to be more consistent.

Not so sure they are that fuel limited. Bigger fuel load capability this year. Anyway the lack of refueling has driven the development of the 50% efficient ICE which is amazing and has direct application to the rest of us. That's one of the appeals for me, the level of engineering and technology that goes into these things. I would hate to see it dumbed down too far.

Currently it's all about tires and aero. I think replace a chunk of the current aero grip with a bunch of mechanical grip and you will enable cars to follow. They already have push to pass etc. Not sure I agree with the 20 man tire change comment, that's part of the spectacle,  there is something about 4 tires in less than 2 seconds that never ceases to amaze me. Thats an awful lot going on in a very short period.  I believe they are getting rid of the warmers 2021. Formula 2 has already ditched them. 

 

 

May not be fuel limited but being able to run light and fast would be cool. I agree on the Tyres/Aero package changes. The car must be able to run close or the sport is done. Not mention if Senna, Prost or god forbid Hunt were to race today they'd be DSQ'd every race. I loved Riccardo's the last lap charge and the closeness of the fight for P7. The "stewards" thought otherwise. Dangerous they said... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting race, waiting for the protest hearing.........

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It almost seems that Liberty wants the red team out of F1. 

The protest hearing has gone on longer than the race itself, unlike Canada.

Easy decision when its against Ferrari, tough decision when its not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The stewards definitely don’t like the red cars.....

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice race. Specially in the end. At least, a lot more action than in France.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2019 at 10:15 AM, captnjoe said:

It almost seems that Liberty wants the red team out of F1. 

The protest hearing has gone on longer than the race itself, unlike Canada.

Easy decision when its against Ferrari, tough decision when its not.

I think they were just waiting for the "orange army" to leave if the verdict fell the other way. 

For the record, I'm Tofosi.  I thought Vettel's penalty was bullshit and I think this one was the right choice. A young and talented LeClerk was chased down and passed by a much more experienced and tenacious Vestappen. Great race.    

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Movable Ballast said:

I think they were just waiting for the "orange army" to leave if the verdict fell the other way. 

For the record, I'm Tofosi.  I thought Vettel's penalty was bullshit and I think this one was the right choice. A young and talented LeClerk was chased down and passed by a much more experienced and tenacious Vestappen. Great race.    

For the record, it's Tifosi, but otherwise you are 100 % correct.  While Vettel has been kind of whiny and unlucky this year, he did say after the race that there should be no penalty and that they should be allowed to race ( not verbatim but basically what he said ) and  I agree.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, surf nazi said:

For the record, it's Tifosi

One tifoso, two tifosi ...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/30/2019 at 10:15 AM, captnjoe said:

It almost seems that Liberty wants the red team out of F1. 

The protest hearing has gone on longer than the race itself, unlike Canada.

Easy decision when its against Ferrari, tough decision when its not.

 

On 6/30/2019 at 12:02 PM, Major Tom said:

The stewards definitely don’t like the red cars.....

Mercedes has a huge income stream compared to Ferrari.

Money talks and Bullshit walks.

Follow the money

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

pretty damn good race in the english gp, imho.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

+1000. Thank god they kept Silverstone.

Great win for Lewis proved he deserved it with  Fastest lap on the last lap on 30 lap old hards !!

Gutted for Valteri he did everything right but the safety car screwed him. 

Big question is WTF is going on with Vettel? his string of mistakes has been going on since before he got wed so it can't be that. Is Vettel really just an above average driver that needs the best car to win and not the superstar he is made out to be? He has been looking pretty ordinary for quite a while now. Me thinks he does not like the pressure of a competitive team mate.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, vibroman said:

+1000. Thank god they kept Silverstone.

Great win for Lewis proved he deserved it with  Fastest lap on the last lap on 30 lap old hards !!

Gutted for Valteri he did everything right but the safety car screwed him. 

Big question is WTF is going on with Vettel? his string of mistakes has been going on since before he got wed so it can't be that. Is Vettel really just an above average driver that needs the best car to win and not the superstar he is made out to be? He has been looking pretty ordinary for quite a while now. Me thinks he does not like the pressure of a competitive team mate.

 

sure he doesn't...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, vibroman said:

+1000. Thank god they kept Silverstone.

Great win for Lewis proved he deserved it with  Fastest lap on the last lap on 30 lap old hards !!

Gutted for Valteri he did everything right but the safety car screwed him. 

Big question is WTF is going on with Vettel? his string of mistakes has been going on since before he got wed so it can't be that. Is Vettel really just an above average driver that needs the best car to win and not the superstar he is made out to be? He has been looking pretty ordinary for quite a while now. Me thinks he does not like the pressure of a competitive team mate.

 

This is what the press is saying about vettel now. That and they're saying that the Newey Red Bull cars were obviously just that good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those cars around Silverstone are just SO impressive- like the commentators (Sky feed) were saying- you just can't believe they will have the grip through those corners!

Obviously, I am bummed for VB- holding off LH in those first couple laps (including cleanly re-passing him) was great to watch (although I have to guess Toto's heart was in his throat!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting comments by EJ in the ch4 post race

  1. Lewis to Ferrari at some point to close out his career.
  2. Vettel to merc
  3. mclaren to use merc power units

re 1 might not be as crazy as it sounds. Lewis is all about the challenge and since neither fernando or seb could win there if he were able to it would dot the i’s nicely. Especially if it happens 2021 when the rule change resets the field. Only issue is if he could survive the “ferrari way” which does not take kindly to driver extra currucula activities.

2 vettel will need to go somewhere. Not sure if merc would have him though with ocon in the wings seb may find himself with limited competitive options. Who is he better than right now given equal gear

3 watch out if that happens things would get really tasty at the front

Here is my subjective top 10 based on this season trying to allow for equipment differences

HAM

LEC

VER

BOT

RIC

SAI

NOR

VET

RAI

ALB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, vibroman said:

Interesting comments by EJ in the ch4 post race

  1. Lewis to Ferrari at some point to close out his career.
  2. Vettel to merc
  3. mclaren to use merc power units

re 1 might not be as crazy as it sounds. Lewis is all about the challenge and since neither fernando or seb could win there if he were able to it would dot the i’s nicely. Especially if it happens 2021 when the rule change resets the field. Only issue is if he could survive the “ferrari way” which does not take kindly to driver extra currucula activities.

2 vettel will need to go somewhere. Not sure if merc would have him though with ocon in the wings seb may find himself with limited competitive options. Who is he better than right now given equal gear

3 watch out if that happens things would get really tasty at the front

Here is my subjective top 10 based on this season trying to allow for equipment differences

HAM

LEC

VER

BOT

RIC

SAI

NOR

VET

RAI

ALB

I think SEB might find himself in a RIC situation soon.  All the good rides going to young guns leaving a choice to retire as a multi champ with some reputation intact or go to a bottom tier team and a bargain price.  I think he would retire before taking a Kimi style downgrade.  

For your list, I'd say its pretty close between RIC and BOT but can;t argue too much either way.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, Innocent Bystander said:

I think SEB might find himself in a RIC situation soon.  All the good rides going to young guns leaving a choice to retire as a multi champ with some reputation intact or go to a bottom tier team and a bargain price.  I think he would retire before taking a Kimi style downgrade.  

For your list, I'd say its pretty close between RIC and BOT but can;t argue too much either way.  

Ricciardo got a huge pay increase to go to Renault. It's not always a bad idea...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, vibroman said:
  1. mclaren to use merc power units

That would be a big call, given the two Mercedes clients are coming 7th and 10th on the constructors standings. 

The Austrian race suggests the biggest difference between Merc and everyone else is how narrow a weather window they've designed for.  As soon as they were out of that window they fell back to the pack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/13/2019 at 4:03 AM, Soley said:

William Storey was an F1 fan from a kid mesmorised by the JPS lotus livery. Probably a Brexiteer as well.

Even their logo is stolen from the bike company Whyte USA.

I hope Haas got the cash up front.

 

Logo issue raised its head just before Monaco now this.  You nailed it Soley

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/144840/rich-ceo-departs-as-haas-sponsor-changes-name

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/15/2019 at 2:22 PM, Innocent Bystander said:

I think SEB might find himself in a RIC situation soon.  All the good rides going to young guns leaving a choice to retire as a multi champ with some reputation intact or go to a bottom tier team and a bargain price.  I think he would retire before taking a Kimi style downgrade.  

For your list, I'd say its pretty close between RIC and BOT but can;t argue too much either way.  

 

If he's hasn't squandered all his pay, he can probably retire and get a job like Weber, or market some auto products.  Great race, and yes very sorry the safety car screwed VB!! Great racing between LeClerc and Verstappen!!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until both of them ground to an halt due to mechanical issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think SV is on the way out the door.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the start of qualifying a reporter in the press box commented "I wonder how Ferrari  is going to screw up this weekend?"

They didn't have to wait long to find out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, captnjoe said:

At the start of qualifying a reporter in the press box commented "I wonder how Ferrari  is going to screw up this weekend?"

They didn't have to wait long to find out.

Didn’t end up too bad for them though.

I could hear the cars from my apartment. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Watched this race because of the weather forecast, and what a treat it was, more action than the rest of the season combined with a completely unpredictable final podium!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, DtM said:

I think SV is on the way out the door.

20th to 2nd!  I think the haters might have to quiet down for a few days.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, silent bob said:

20th to 2nd!  I think the haters might have to quiet down for a few days.

Of the top three teams, he and Verstappen were the only ones who hadn't taken themselves out.  The rest of the pack is still far behind the top three.  The finishing times were close only because of the numerous safety cars. 

However, it was fun to watch.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very good race to watch - even as a Renault fan. Thought the Hulk was finally going to be on a podium!

Only thing I thought that was really poor was all of Verstappen's fans applauding wildly when Bottas went off.  Very sad to see that there are no manners and respect amongst sports fans nowadays - be it tennis, cricket, football, whatever.

Old grumpy man that remembers when you would applaud good things and commiserate with the bad luck.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mccroc said:

Very good race to watch - even as a Renault fan. Thought the Hulk was finally going to be on a podium!

Only thing I thought that was really poor was all of Verstappen's fans applauding wildly when Bottas went off.  Very sad to see that there are no manners and respect amongst sports fans nowadays - be it tennis, cricket, football, whatever.

Old grumpy man that remembers when you would applaud good things and commiserate with the bad luck.

  

I was at the train station yesterday evening and it was full of fans, all having a good time, friendly, talked to a few Dutch Verstappen fans, and some guys with a Bottas banner. All friendly respectful... Really a nice crowd, a hell of a lot diffrent than when there's a football game. It's like a war zone when there is a football game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What an amazing race to watch. MV was amazing (as he has consistently been for some time) but Vettel certainly silenced his critics, myself included. For now. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

another great race. ferrari better turn things around over the break otherwise I don't see mattia coming back next year. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, derelicte said:

another great race. ferrari better turn things around over the break otherwise I don't see mattia coming back next year. 

next year? what about next semester (i.e. after the august break)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ocon, appears to be in a good place right now.  Both Renauld and Merc appear to have flagged him as their go to guy for next year.  Do you Danny Ric and follow the money or go somewhere that will give you a chance of standing on a box at the end of the day but will expect you to be there within 10 races.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, 42 South said:

So Bottas likely to be out next year and probably Gasly - a return option for Alonso?

i doubt it. alonso burned too many (all?) possible bridges.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bottas might fit at Renault or possibly Willams (again). Especially if he thinks Williams might be resurgent next year.  Does not look like Kubica has it any more

I think Ocon is a shoe in for Merc alongside LH

Not sure RBR ready to do Kvyat again but Gasly has to go. So Albon?

I doubt there is a seat for Alonso too much baggage

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Obviously I think it's a shame even if Bottas is given a 'soft landing' elsewhere- but I DO understand the business- and, bad luck or not, Merc wants the results he was getting earlier in the year.

Gasly is strange- last year he looked way stronger- so maybe it's the pressure of the 'big' team- so I worry about Ocon falling to the same issues if he gets the seat... 

Regardless of how the silliness plays out- I am at least excited to see this current crop of young drivers that are SO effing good...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hungary was the best race in a long, long time!!  3 teams nearly evenly matched; pity about Max tires going away at the end.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Hungary was the best race in a long, long time!!  3 teams nearly evenly matched; pity about Max tires going away at the end.....

I'm not sure why they did not pit him when LH did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Meat Wad said:

I'm not sure why they did not pit him when LH did.

LH had more race pace so if Max had pitted he would have come out behind and probably not been able to overtake, his only chance  was to stay out front and hope his tyres made it to the end...it almost worked.

surprised you are here Dawg, usually it’s only after a shit show, to tell us how much F1 sucks..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like I chose a bad time to miss a race, up drinking & watching TOONAMI the evening before, might have to cut done a touch (on the bourbon).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, animeproblem said:

Sounds like I chose a bad time to miss a race, up drinking & watching TOONAMI the evening before, might have to cut done a touch (on the bourbon).

 

That's what DVR's are for.  I only watched the end yesterday, on comcast.net, too busy at work otherwise....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't own one but I wonder if my Xfinity box has that capability, I have never found a way to actually turn it off, apart from unplugging it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no cable or sat or any on that stuff here so I ponied up for the f1 app works fine and the have replays etc. I aldo use the vpn  to access The channel 4 highlight show.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/7/2019 at 1:53 PM, ro! said:

LH had more race pace so if Max had pitted he would have come out behind and probably not been able to overtake, his only chance  was to stay out front and hope his tyres made it to the end...it almost worked.

surprised you are here Dawg, usually it’s only after a shit show, to tell us how much F1 sucks..

No surprise, I have not been happy with F1 for thew last 5 years +.
Money talks and bullshit walks.

It is the Money game that kills any sport. When there is real competition on a level field, the fans respond.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites