MauiPunter

What brands from the 70s/80s would you resurrect?

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13 hours ago, Nirie said:

Steve Haarstick was innovative. I think he graduated from Webb. Probably worked at Hard while at Webb. Was early user of computer power to study sail shapes, cloth bias stretch and the like. Used computer to design panel shaping. Had early Gerber cnc cutter in Annapolis loft and built the first couple of thousand Laser sails. Typical Steve told them the shape could be improved

 They told him, just make the same lousy shape exactly like the model.

Early loft was in Ithaca New York. Probably had an in at Cornell to access their big mainframe. Later moved to Rochester New York. Steve was a Star sailor and at one point had a Kirby/goertz 1/2 ton with a blown up star boat rig.  Jibiing was a little stressful.

He made fast sails for a host of classes, big and small. I think his  Quilt cut spinnakers were as fast as anything out there.

He retired a couple of years ago. Sold the loft to a grokp of employees who hooked up with Quantum. Wonder if they still test cloth as religously as he did?

If Steve is out there lurking, hello from Nirie.

Kris Werner took over Haarstick's Rochester loft and hung the Quantum banner but I don't think they adopted any of Steve's old processes (i.e. cloth testing).  A Haarstick satellite operation in Hamilton ON carries on under the Bay Sails name, loft owner Keven Piper still maintains the Haarstick tradition and database of cloth testing, and still works closely with (now retired) Steve.  Keven makes some pretty quick sails...

Cheers!

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19 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Thank you, but the Soling ones were stamped, so relatively light for the diameter.  They were perfect for small sails where a couple of quick pulls was enough.  Not having to remove (and, many times, lost) the handle was great.

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1 hour ago, Snaggletooth said:

Whatevere brande thissis, please brigne it backe.....

jenniferoneill.JPG

:)

she seems nice

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Jennifer O'Neill - the older woman in Summer of '42

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Jennifer O'Neill - the older woman in Summer of '42

Damn, my Older Women were...older women. No regrets, I was aiming for one that looked just like that and her mother snuck into my tent later on. I didn't think suggesting a threesome would have gone down well at that particular time.

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You weren't 14 like Hermie was.

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Wow - it seems like we actually had a lot of fun back then in boats that the SA "all sporty all the time" campaign considered obstacles and eyesores better off scrapped :rolleyes:

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Ranger boats from Kent, Washington. Minto dinghys and ranger 20/24s were pretty slick, indestructable boats.

 

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Cream, The Who, The Ramones

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh..... brands

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Cream didn't make it out of the 60's so you weren't going to get your wish anyway. ;)

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I wonder how Tanzer would have made out if they could have  continued production of the 25 and 29 designs. I have a 1989 29 and it's a pretty good boat. Good looking too.

JerryA

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33 minutes ago, JerryA said:

I wonder how Tanzer would have made out if they could have  continued production of the 25 and 29 designs. I have a 1989 29 and it's a pretty good boat. Good looking too.

JerryA

Sure..... but what would you pay for a modern tanzer 29 when a good old one can be picked up for 5k? That is the problem. 

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3 hours ago, basketcase said:

Sure..... but what would you pay for a modern tanzer 29 when a good old one can be picked up for 5k? That is the problem. 

Would you pay 450k for a brand new c&c43?

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21 minutes ago, basketcase said:

Would you pay 450k for a brand new c&c43?

Yes!

I am interested in buying your excellent product. Can you crate it up and send it and I will send you guaranteed iTunes cards. Please mark Fragile.

Thanks eternal.

 

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Don’t know if anyone makes the OsloJolle any more.  It was a fast little fiberglass clinker. Our neighbor, named Carlson (ja sure, ya betcha!) had one, and he and my dad did a horizon job on the Wednesday beer can fleet. Sailed it a couple of times.  Sweet.

 

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16 hours ago, basketcase said:

Sure..... but what would you pay for a modern tanzer 29 when a good old one can be picked up for 5k? That is the problem. 

The real problem is that builders aren't interested in building boats of that size except the Bunters etc. It doesn't pay.

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57 minutes ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

The real problem is that builders aren't interested in building boats of that size except the Bunters etc. It doesn't pay.

It doesn't pay because you can't sell them.

 

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1 minute ago, basketcase said:

It doesn't pay because you can't sell them.

 

That was the point. More and more (power or sail) as a "first" boat 35' and up. I have had 5 boats from a Ranger 22 to the 38 I have now. The first of them I was in my 20's as my family were professional mariners or had a pleasure craft as well. It's what you did. It's as much a lifestyle. 

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On 12/28/2018 at 5:28 PM, MauiPunter said:

Allll righty then.....

 

Yes, Ranger and Pearson need to be mentioned.   I really loved the Gary Mull designed Rangers.

 

I wish there was some kind of retrospective bio on all these top brands of their day, and the stories of how they rose and fell.  The people behind these brands are starting to leave this earth.  Would be good to get these stories down in writing.  I always enjoy reading about stories about the boating industry.

Still own and love our Ranger 33 after 30 years, now restored from the keel up. 

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2 hours ago, Maxx Baqustae said:

That was the point. More and more (power or sail) as a "first" boat 35' and up. I have had 5 boats from a Ranger 22 to the 38 I have now. The first of them I was in my 20's as my family were professional mariners or had a pleasure craft as well. It's what you did. It's as much a lifestyle. 

I loved the Ranger 22!  Had a chance to pick one up super cheap a few years ago for Wednesday night beer can racing but I waited to long...IIRC the ad said they used “graphite” in the deck.

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3 hours ago, JPD said:

Still own and love our Ranger 33 after 30 years, now restored from the keel up. 

The Ranger 33 is a weapon.  20yrs ago, I wanted to buy one, fair the foils, new sails and win the Chi-Mac.   Still doable for anyone with 50K laying around.

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

The Ranger 33 is a weapon.  20yrs ago, I wanted to buy one, fair the foils, new sails and win the Chi-Mac.   Still doable for anyone with 50K laying around.

Sounds like you know the boat  very well. Ours is fairly well set up. We haven't raced seriously in years but back in the day with non furling sails, on a tuff luff, with a VC bottom polished down to 600... we got a lot of hate.

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In about 1972 or so, the R33 won the one ton NAs or Worlds maybe in SD (West Coast in either case).  The field included the Ranger One Ton (great boat).  The 33TR now rates around 150 with the 1T somewhere in the 120-130 range.  Crack the sheets just a bit and there's no question which boat I'd rather be on.  Gary Mull designed both but the 1T was nothing but pain to sail.  Did a little time on the 27 and maybe the best MORC boat of all time.  Enjoy, you have a great boat JPD!

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Was the R22 a 1/4 pounder?

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Dorlon Wet Weather Gear. Remember the famous advert: 27,000 miles without a leak!

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Sadly until the middle class expands and gains a share of global wealth we won't see anything but rickity go fast sport boats and luxury yachts 40' or greater 

Boat builders stopped making affordable well built boats because the middle class could no longer afford to buy them...

Sport boats are built to be raced hard and mostly replaced each season...

But having said that...I would like to see S2 make a couple great lakes sailboats again....34 and 38 footer a fast modern cruiser capable of double digit speeds...for a cost comparable to a upper midrange RV. ($150-200k?)

Dehler makes some snazzy 30-40 footers...US builder could snag some of that market...

My dock neighbor bought a Dehler 38...I think he takes delivery this spring. He is replacing a older milk jug Hunter 36 he bought new. So there are people buying new boats that aren't a bazillion feet long and cost a trillion dollars...

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51 minutes ago, EvaOdland said:

Boat builders stopped making affordable well built boats because the middle class could no longer afford to buy them...

or keep them.

As a upper middle class person it's hard enough to maintain a 30 year old 37' race boat.  Moorage will probably be $8k/year next year, sail budget is about $5k/year, other costs average to about the same.  So $1500/month for boat ownership.  It's a good thing that I love sailing!  It drives me nuts if I do the math of dollars spent per hour.

I don't know how an average middle class salary can do it anymore.

alex

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17 minutes ago, Alex W said:

I don't know how an average middle class salary can do it anymore.

I hear yah...I sacrificed the "big house in the suburbs" for a inner city fixer-upper so I could afford my sailing habit...

(I wouldn't do well in the burbs either...I would hate it...)

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On 1/6/2019 at 11:23 AM, Cal20sailor said:

In about 1972 or so, the R33 won the one ton NAs or Worlds maybe in SD (West Coast in either case).  The field included the Ranger One Ton (great boat).  The 33TR now rates around 150 with the 1T somewhere in the 120-130 range.  Crack the sheets just a bit and there's no question which boat I'd rather be on.  Gary Mull designed both but the 1T was nothing but pain to sail.  Did a little time on the 27 and maybe the best MORC boat of all time.  Enjoy, you have a great boat JPD!

We have tie 33 Tall rig and rate around 160 with a 145 lp head sail....no complaints. 

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On 1/4/2019 at 9:19 PM, basketcase said:

Sure..... but what would you pay for a modern tanzer 29 when a good old one can be picked up for 5k? That is the problem. 

Gerry Hutchins at Com-Pac Yachts once told me that he could have retired years ago if he could have figured out how to manufacture used boats.

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22 hours ago, EvaOdland said:

Sadly until the middle class expands and gains a share of global wealth we won't see anything but rickity go fast sport boats and luxury yachts 40' or greater 

Boat builders stopped making affordable well built boats because the middle class could no longer afford to buy them...

First part is only sorta true...second sentence is true, but they all can afford a used boat and are choosing not to...

Combined with the "economic stagnation" of the middle class, is that fact that WE have made building boats way more expensive than it used to be.  The combination of increased environmental regulations, increased health and safety regulations on the job site, increased benefits and health care employers must provide, etc., have all combined to increase the cost of building a boat today.

Add to that the fact that we "enthusiast" sailors demand every more capable, high tech boats.  Heck, everytime a new J/boat (or almost any new racer/cruiser) comes out, most of the crowd here pans it for not being significantly faster than the boat its replacing - and given you can buy that used older J for less than half the price of a new one...

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47 minutes ago, Crash said:

First part is only sorta true...second sentence is true, but they all can afford a used boat and are choosing not to...

Combined with the "economic stagnation" of the middle class, is that fact that WE have made building boats way more expensive than it used to be.  The combination of increased environmental regulations, increased health and safety regulations on the job site, increased benefits and health care employers must provide, etc., have all combined to increase the cost of building a boat today.

Add to that the fact that we "enthusiast" sailors demand every more capable, high tech boats.  Heck, everytime a new J/boat (or almost any new racer/cruiser) comes out, most of the crowd here pans it for not being significantly faster than the boat its replacing - and given you can buy that used older J for less than half the price of a new one...

Afford has to include time and money for moorage and maintenance, even used boats are increasingly expensive per hour of use. Just tearing down and greasing 4 winches 2 x a year is more time than I spend directly on maintaining my car yearly, then add in everything else.

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1 hour ago, Je Prefere said:

Afford has to include time and money for moorage and maintenance, even used boats are increasingly expensive per hour of use. Just tearing down and greasing 4 winches 2 x a year is more time than I spend directly on maintaining my car yearly, then add in everything else.

Maybe, but that's a new boat issue as well...still need to maintain, or pay someone else to do it for you.  And while yes, the cost of moorage and maintenance has also increased faster than the average middle class salary, that is also due to the reasons cited above, plus the fact that 99% of the population would rather have condo's on the water than a marina.

Its a whole social values shift - some good, some not as good.  Its too simplistic to try to blame it on only one cause (lack of middle class wage growth in this instance)

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On 12/28/2018 at 7:13 PM, MidPack said:

I bought the book when it came out, a great retrospective among several.

Lots of great info here.

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3 hours ago, Crash said:

 

Maybe, but that's a new boat issue as well...still need to maintain, or pay someone else to do it for you.  And while yes, the cost of moorage and maintenance has also increased faster than the average middle class salary, that is also due to the reasons cited above, plus the fact that 99% of the population would rather have condo's on the water than a marina.

Its a whole social values shift - some good, some not as good.  Its too simplistic to try to blame it on only one cause (lack of middle class wage growth in this instance)

agreed.

 

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2 hours ago, jimmy 2 said:

Romica bright yellow boots

Were those the big tall ones? 

Yeah, definitely a 70s fashion statement. 

 

 

thH0SNMV57.jpg

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Ah, the Snug! Long gone!

Classic greasy-spoon breakfast in the back. Other meals... I'll pass.

Memories of the alkies lined up at 6:00 am, waiting for it to open.

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19 hours ago, Hukilau said:

Bring back O'Day!

Good, well built boats that do surprisingly well on the race course. The 34/35 and 39/40 can be giant killers if sailed well. 

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I always liked the Chris Craft centercockpit ketch. 

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Hmm... What boats did I own that I wish would come back... maybe modernized a bit...

Hotfoot 20! Oh wait, they did and it didn’t sell... 

Pocket Rocket 22! Oh wait, they did and it didn’t sell...

+1 on Line 7

wouldn't mind a memosail either just for kicks

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7 hours ago, overdraft said:

Hmm... What boats did I own that I wish would come back... maybe modernized a bit...

My friend's dad owned a Bertram 31. Absolutely awesome boat. That and the 28 are still so well-regarded that you can buy a zombie hull, spend a shitload of money, and sell it without getting hit by the usual "dime on the dollar" return on pouring money into an old boat.

Speaking of modernizing a bit... they were built on the Miami River using rail cars of resin. And the entire neighborhood smelled like rail cars of resin.

And people could actually afford the rail cars of resin required to build those CSY's as thick as they did.

Some things are not coming back and it's just as well.

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On 12/29/2018 at 5:08 PM, zenmasterfred said:

Or as we blue threadies used to call them "Sails by Twatts".  Seriously, lots of respect for Kenny and Fast and Loose Fast Eddy and the crew.

I still have a Watt’s sea bag.  No one knows about them any more when they see it.     

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On 1/13/2019 at 10:49 PM, soling2003 said:

I still have a Watt’s sea bag.  No one knows about them any more when they see it.     

 

IMG_20181212_140610 (2) (768x1024).jpg

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On 12/26/2018 at 11:11 PM, MauiPunter said:

What brands would you resurrect and why? 

Time for a hijack!!!

1) Welcome Back Kotter - Travolta at his best

2) Logan's Run - Jessica's skirt just kept getting shorter!

3) UFO - awesome stuff, a base on the moon and everything!

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4 hours ago, Parma said:

1) Welcome Back Kotter - Travolta at his best

I'd love to see the look on his face if someone ran this past him.

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12 hours ago, Training Wheels said:

Up your nose with a rubber hose!

My sister said that to me once when we were teenagers but got it backwards. Hilarity ensued.

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On 1/4/2019 at 8:43 PM, JerryA said:

I wonder how Tanzer would have made out if they could have  continued production of the 25 and 29 designs. I have a 1989 29 and it's a pretty good boat. Good looking too.

JerryA

J, what choo smokin dude?

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The mention

On 1/5/2019 at 6:15 PM, J28 said:

I loved the Ranger 22!  Had a chance to pick one up super cheap a few years ago for Wednesday night beer can racing but I waited to long...IIRC the ad said they used “graphite” in the deck.

U must be trolling:-). The ranger 22 was the fastest looking, slowest boat of the IOR era 1/4 ton, microscopic LWL.

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1 hour ago, dolphinmaster said:

The mention

U must be trolling:-). The ranger 22 was the fastest looking, slowest boat of the IOR era 1/4 ton, microscopic LWL.

It was damn sexy though.   Look at dat ass, yo!

Image result for Ranger 22

 

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2 hours ago, dolphinmaster said:

The mention

U must be trolling:-). The ranger 22 was the fastest looking, slowest boat of the IOR era 1/4 ton, microscopic LWL.

Except it wasn't a 1/4 Pounder.

It was a Mini-Ton.

It wasn't particularly slow for its day either - PHRF is around 220, the same as 1/4 Tonners of a couple of years earlier.

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9 hours ago, MauiPunter said:
11 hours ago, dolphinmaster said:

The mention

U must be trolling:-). The ranger 22 was the fastest looking, slowest boat of the IOR era 1/4 ton, microscopic LWL.

It was damn sexy though.   Look at dat ass, yo!

Image result for Ranger 22

And look at dat stern wave!

Cool looking boat, they were sexy. I suppose whether the sexy was more than skin deep, depends on what you like.

FB- Doug

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On 1/9/2019 at 12:01 AM, Somebody Else said:

Ah, the Snug! Long gone!

Classic greasy-spoon breakfast in the back. Other meals... I'll pass.

Memories of the alkies lined up at 6:00 am, waiting for it to open.

If the Cook has grease stains on his shirt, then that's the place to eat!

My brain cells are shorting out much more often as I get older but I looked at that drawing and knew exactly what place it was!

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

And look at dat stern wave!

Cool looking boat, they were sexy. I suppose whether the sexy was more than skin deep, depends on what you like.

FB- Doug

Boat that does that to the water outa be named "Shovel" 

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2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

And look at dat stern wave!

 

And the angle on the water-brake, er, tiller.  Maybe a little mainsheet and vang ease, weight on the rail, kids?

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3 hours ago, Mr Moab said:

Boat that does that to the water outa be named "Shovel" 

That very boat is now named Heidi and sails on Harrison Lake in British Columbia. The PNW Hobie fleet would know it well.   It is in absolutely gorgeous condition as the owner did a very good restoration. The money the owner put in to the boat was not large, maybe $500.  Why ever buy a new one? 

Even back in the good old days it seemed the only sustainable bit of the sailing  business was sail making because thinks tended to rust out before they wore out on the hulls and spars and even back then people wanted more and better sails.  Custom boatbuilders seemed to hit themselves over the head just to get the job. It was a lowest cost producer environment where the Kiwi Yachts of the world would build a fast boat and then go bankrupt.  

As far as the production cost increases from wages and environmental regulation, it is not a big factor.  The market, or real lack of, is the problem

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15 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

It was damn sexy though.   Look at dat ass, yo!

<lol>

Back In The Day (88? 89?), there was a funny little boat in a slip near Evo at Marina del Rey.  about the size of a Soling, wide-open cockpit but a very IOR shape. 

Turned out it was one of the 1/3rd-scale tank-test models for (what became) Kialoa V, and someone (John Jr?) had fitted it out with rig and sails as a daysail toy.

damn sexy little thing!  wonder if it is still around somewhere....

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1 minute ago, sledracr said:

<lol>

Back In The Day (88? 89?), there was a funny little boat in a slip near Evo at Marina del Rey.  about the size of a Soling, wide-open cockpit but a very IOR shape. 

Turned out it was one of the 1/3rd-scale tank-test models for (what became) Kialoa V, and someone (John Jr?) had fitted it out with rig and sails as a daysail toy.

damn sexy little thing!  wonder if it is still around somewhere....

Thats cool.  I would have liked to have seen that.

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15 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

Image result for Ranger 22

 

The boat was visually a blatant rip-off of the Tuna 20 in an attempt to ride the coattails of popularity of that class in its heyday. But then the execs at Ranger got hold of it and went all IOR up in that shit, ruining the concept. So it was a shitty mini tonner and it wasn't fast or fun enough to break into one-design.

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Yep, those thing or the Wilderness 21.

Bring back the IOR shape!

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