Norse Horse 268 #1 Posted December 27, 2018 This unidentified pic caught my eye, not having seen a sailboat with this hull shape before. Runabouts, sure but...not even sure is NA call this extreme tumblehome or not. Any idea of the designer? Page 10 Wooden boat. http://docshare01.docshare.tips/files/29380/293804557.pdf Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 1,774 #2 Posted December 27, 2018 The correct term for these would seem to be "barrelback". 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulK 56 #3 Posted December 28, 2018 Whaleback also comes to mind, though those tend to be bigger. Barrelback sounds & looks better. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norse Horse 268 #4 Posted December 28, 2018 I tried both terms in google but only motorboats and commercial craft come up in that shape.Whaleback seems to be a looser term. That sailboat must be an experiment in stability. Sault Ste Marie photo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sledracr 102 #5 Posted December 28, 2018 I just thought it was funny that - in a letter complaining that the magazine has too much emphasis on sailboats - the writer asks for more info about a sailboat. <O_O> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.R. 3 #6 Posted December 28, 2018 What about this one? It's the French pre-dreadnought battleship "Carnot". Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 2,568 #7 Posted December 29, 2018 How could anybody ever have thought that was right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Raz'r 979 #8 Posted December 29, 2018 28 minutes ago, SloopJonB said: How could anybody ever have thought that was right? same guys? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 1,774 #9 Posted December 29, 2018 4 hours ago, J.R. said: What about this one? It's the French pre-dreadnought battleship "Carnot". That's quite the anchor. I suppose the design was meant to keep CG low when ships were made of metal. It must have been quite the eureka moment to figure out you could have one gun to cover both sides. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
olaf hart 213 #10 Posted December 29, 2018 5 hours ago, J.R. said: What about this one? It's the French pre-dreadnought battleship "Carnot". Are those hull openings gunports as well? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulK 56 #11 Posted December 29, 2018 Don't think they're gunports- there are too many. French naval history site gives armament for this cruiser as two 305 (mm?) in two single turrets, forward and aft two 274(mm?) in two side turrets eight 138.6 (mm?) in four double turrets four 65(mm?) fourteen 47 (mm?) four air-TLT's (?) 450mm (removed in 1906) (these sound like mortars) This ship was built essentially as an experimental vessel, giving the designer requirements for displacement and armament and letting him go. Armour-plating was in nickel-steel, up to 400 mm thick in a band around the waterline. The Carnot joined the French Navy in 1896 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panope 73 #12 Posted December 29, 2018 On 12/28/2018 at 2:29 PM, J.R. said: What about this one? It's the French pre-dreadnought battleship "Carnot". I like motorsailers as much as anyone, but this is taking the "mast on a motorboat" a bit too far. Or did Admiral Boom just have to have a few gaffs and yards to make him feel at home? Steve Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 1,019 #13 Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, PaulK said: Don't think they're gunports- there are too many. French naval history site gives armament for this cruiser as two 305 (mm?) in two single turrets, forward and aft two 274(mm?) in two side turrets eight 138.6 (mm?) in four double turrets four 65(mm?) fourteen 47 (mm?) four air-TLT's (?) 450mm (removed in 1906) (these sound like mortars) This ship was built essentially as an experimental vessel, giving the designer requirements for displacement and armament and letting him go. Armour-plating was in nickel-steel, up to 400 mm thick in a band around the waterline. The Carnot joined the French Navy in 1896 Ventilation in those pre-dreadnought ships was horrible. It was almost like they didn't expect the crew to breathe. They probably used most of them for passing coal when refueling, too. Can you imagine looking at that thing and wanting a sistership, though? FB- Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulK 56 #14 Posted December 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Panope said: I like motorsailers as much as anyone, but this is taking the "mast on a motorboat" a bit too far. Or did Admiral Boom just have to have a few gaffs and yards to make him feel at home? Steve Don't forget they needed masts to fly signals & communicate. No radio in 1896. In fact, Marconi demonstrated radio transmitting across a room to incredulous observers in December 1896. Five years later he got it to work transatlantic : https://www.wired.com/2011/12/1212marconi-radio-demo-transatlantic/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Panope 73 #15 Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, PaulK said: Don't forget they needed masts to fly signals & communicate. No radio in 1896. In fact, Marconi demonstrated radio transmitting across a room to incredulous observers in December 1896. Five years later he got it to work transatlantic : https://www.wired.com/2011/12/1212marconi-radio-demo-transatlantic/ True enough. That might even be an antenna, stretched (drooping) between the mastheads. But yards? What purpose could those have other than hoisting flags? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 1,774 #16 Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Panope said: True enough. That might even be an antenna, stretched (drooping) between the mastheads. But yards? What purpose could those have other than hoisting flags? Isn't that enough? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulK 56 #17 Posted December 30, 2018 10 hours ago, Panope said: True enough. That might even be an antenna, stretched (drooping) between the mastheads. But yards? What purpose could those have other than hoisting flags? Thought that could be an antenna, which was a reason to check for radio. Ship went out of commission in 1919, so radio likely to have been added. The photo isn't dated afaik. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steam Flyer 1,019 #18 Posted December 30, 2018 On 12/27/2018 at 1:37 PM, Norse Horse said: This unidentified pic caught my eye, not having seen a sailboat with this hull shape before. Runabouts, sure but...not even sure is NA call this extreme tumblehome or not. Any idea of the designer? Page 10 Wooden boat. http://docshare01.docshare.tips/files/29380/293804557.pdf Getting back to the original post, my first thought was of one of my favorite "modern" boats the Jn-18 Everything old is new again. FB- Doug Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SemiSalt 69 #19 Posted December 30, 2018 Perhaps inspired by Uffa Fox: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 2,568 #20 Posted December 30, 2018 1 hour ago, SemiSalt said: Perhaps inspired by Uffa Fox: I'll see you and raise you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norse Horse 268 #21 Posted December 30, 2018 I like the Uffa Fox idea, someone used that. This Int14 build shows how it could happen. The other design is just bizzare Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lark 496 #22 Posted December 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Norse Horse said: I like the Uffa Fox idea, someone used that. This Int14 build shows how it could happen. The other design is just bizzare Are there any other pictures of that “Woodie” wagon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norse Horse 268 #23 Posted January 1 23 hours ago, Lark said: Are there any other pictures of that “Woodie” wagon? There are some here. The boat is called Akka. http://www.ijedrenje.com/novost/akka-luda-svedska-proa/7946/ More pics of the junk rigged tacking proa here, check out the interior. http://www.ijedrenje.com/novost/akka-luda-svedska-proa/7946/ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Priscilla 174 #24 Posted January 1 Cool boat but how do you tack it or just live on the wild side and fly a hull. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norse Horse 268 #25 Posted January 1 Paging Russel at Port Townsend Watercraft.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 2,568 #26 Posted January 1 I sure ain't working the foredeck on that thing. Makes a fishing schooner's bowsprit look as safe as a rocking chair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaramaz 34 #27 Posted January 1 13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said: I sure ain't working the foredeck on that thing. Makes a fishing schooner's bowsprit look as safe as a rocking chair. Sissy! Don't think one is supposed to actually work on that foredeck, the rigg is designed to be controlled from the cockpit. Without any doubt new concept, which is expected to draw a lot of negative reactions. In its own way a very beautiful boat. Maybe not so practical. Seems owner / builder* knows what he is doing: https://rodamollan.se/batsnickeri-restaurering-inredning-master-rundhult/ (* a bit of an educated guess) //J 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 1,774 #28 Posted January 1 9 hours ago, Jaramaz said: Sissy! Don't think one is supposed to actually work on that foredeck, the rigg is designed to be controlled from the cockpit. Without any doubt new concept, which is expected to draw a lot of negative reactions. In its own way a very beautiful boat. Maybe not so practical. Seems owner / builder* knows what he is doing: https://rodamollan.se/batsnickeri-restaurering-inredning-master-rundhult/ (* a bit of an educated guess) //J The rig may be controlled from the cockpit, but how does the crew get to the forward cleat? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Norse Horse 268 #30 Posted January 1 Uffa, as Semi posted, is the likely designer of the OP boat. His lifeboat designs and inventiveness seem to suggest that. The "doctor" who built that boat may have modified some other hull in the build, striken by Uffa Fever, like a Flying Dutchman. I'm not a rudder design specialist even at a Holiday Inn, so that doesn't tell me who used that shape first or if it is generic to the age of that design. I did find some links you may find interesting. Fox Mk2 Parachuted lifeboat and commentary. http://www.shipspotting.com/gallery/photo.php?lid=455850 Huff of Arklow was for sale, a classic. https://twitter.com/classicyachtsuk A Mk1 aluminum beauty. https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=191&t=1430351 A modified FD ? https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/2016/08/17/olympic-classes-pt-3-this-was-considered-revolutionary-the-flying-dutchman-and-the-trapeze/ S Afr lifeboat whaled stern. https://saafmuseum.org.za/saaf-boats/lifeboat-1/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uffa_Fox More Atlanta, a twin centreboard design able to dry out. http://www.uffafox.com/atalanta.htm He had a singing voice. http://www.uffafox.com/ The first scow bow? Fairey Duckling Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaramaz 34 #31 Posted January 1 2 hours ago, Ishmael said: The rig may be controlled from the cockpit, but how does the crew get to the forward cleat? which forward cleat? When moving foraward to do anything with ropes the boat is in calm waters, no problems. SJB was saying "working the foredeck" which somehow implies working during sailing, you know, all these strange strings and ropes and lines or whatever they are. But again, even in an harbour it is not really necessary to move to the foredeck. No "foredeck working" is nnecessary. //JJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SloopJonB 2,568 #32 Posted January 1 In my long experience I have never been on a boat that did not require going forward underway at some point. How do you handle the anchor if nothing else? What if some rigging breaks or fouls? No matter what rationalizations are given or no matter what (admittedly superior) craftsmanship is involved, that is a really dumb deck design, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jaramaz 34 #33 Posted January 1 38 minutes ago, SloopJonB said: In my long experience I have never been on a boat that did not require going forward underway at some point. How do you handle the anchor if nothing else? What if some rigging breaks or fouls? No matter what rationalizations are given or no matter what (admittedly superior) craftsmanship is involved, that is a really dumb deck design, Well, as I have only sailed rather traditional boats, in my far too long experience, also I have had to enter the foredeck now and then. In contrast to conventional boats this boat has about nothing in front of the foremast. Anchor is easy - you handle it from the cockpit, when everything has settled it can be fastened in the bow if so wanted. I did so myself for some years when the kids were small, easy way to do it, full control all the time. You know, it all depends on the conditions in which the owner intend to use the boat. Boils down to how one regards new ideas - I like new concepts, they tend to bring things forward. This one: beautiful and interesting. Practical? No idea - haven't sailed it. //J Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Salazar 21 #34 Posted January 1 The entire foredeck opens. See the two hatches that open from the centre line in front of the square deck hatch? Here is a photo with one hatch open. You can see the hinges on the large hatch better in this photo: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sculpin 33 #35 Posted January 1 Geezus! That'll never leak! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PaulK 56 #36 Posted January 2 17 hours ago, sculpin said: Geezus! That'll never leak! Looks like it might be self-bailing. There's a big opening just under the nosecone on the bow. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Teener 12 #37 Posted January 3 It is truly rare that you see so much insanity executed to such perfection on such a grand scale. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ishmael 1,774 #38 Posted January 3 16 minutes ago, Teener said: It is truly rare that you see so much insanity executed to such perfection on such a grand scale. You apparently have not seen the F-35. 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.R. 3 #39 Posted January 12 On 12/31/2018 at 12:52 AM, Norse Horse said: I like the Uffa Fox idea, someone used that. This Int14 build shows how it could happen. The other design is just bizzare It looks like a trimaran after somebody stole one of the side hulls. ¿Was the main hull designed by Captain Nemo...? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Ed 319 #41 Posted January 13 On 1/1/2019 at 7:28 AM, Jaramaz said: Sissy! Don't think one is supposed to actually work on that foredeck, the rigg is designed to be controlled from the cockpit. Without any doubt new concept, which is expected to draw a lot of negative reactions. In its own way a very beautiful boat. Maybe not so practical. Seems owner / builder* knows what he is doing: https://rodamollan.se/batsnickeri-restaurering-inredning-master-rundhult/ (* a bit of an educated guess) //J Rodamollan seem like an extremely cool outfit. I have Swede envy. It may be an artefact of translation but I particularly like, in their description of reasons you might call upon their expertise in insurance and repair work, the phrase "... and damage from less successful moorings…" As to that boat, gosh . . . I wonder which tack it's faster on. I reckon it wouldn't take me long to capsize it with the ama to windward. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
