Mid

2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

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1 minute ago, Ukuri said:

WRONG!

Go back and read ALL the above.

They claimed that it was "fried" during an interview at Bradley's Head. If they even suspected that a piece of compulsory equipment may be faulty it was incumbent upon them to check it and repair it and if unsuccessful report it to the RC.

Feel free to show where they said they realised it was fried before being informed in Hobart that they were not transmitting.

I dont ghink the propaganda machine is dumb enough to make that mistake.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Feel free to show where they said they realised it was fried before being informed in Hobart that they were not transmitting.

I dont ghink the propaganda machine is dumb enough to make that mistake.

You have just proved otherwise.

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1 minute ago, paps49 said:

Another WOXI bot

 

Fuck me, you dopey prick, Im Australian.

That whole post from me was dripping with sarcasm. Its less believable than the fable of the witty and well hung crow eater.

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1 minute ago, Se7en said:

Feel free to show where they said they realised it was fried before being informed in Hobart that they were not transmitting.

So they are incompetent?

Ignorance is no excuse for noncompliance. 

  • The dog ate my homework! 
  • Officer I didn't mean to go over the speed limit.
  • I had no idea my registration had expired.

They have no excuses, but claim they are innocent.  No one buys it.

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Apologies everyone, I just looked up screen and realised  I seem to be blurting. Its just that I respond to each comment as I see it after dinner.

 

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1 minute ago, Se7en said:

Feel free to show where they said they realised it was fried before being informed in Hobart that they were not transmitting.

I dont ghink the propaganda machine is dumb enough to make that mistake.

Feel free to go and do your own research, and once you have done that your apology will be graciously accepted.

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

Fuck me, you dopey prick, Im Australian.

That whole post from me was dripping with sarcasm. Its less believable than the fable of the witty and well hung crow eater.

Point proven.

 

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Fuck me the bots are quoting each other. I need my daddy rest before new years, midnight is friggin scarey at my age. I fully expect to wake up to pedophile charges from the bots tomorrow after using the Daddy tag.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Apologies everyone, I just looked up screen and realised  I seem to be blurting. Its just that I respond to each comment as I see it after dinner.

 

Im just finishing a rather tasty Shiraz, from your neck of the woods. Incidentally, from 2012, back when I got to drink with the WO 11 crew in the Customs house. They deigned to talk to us, even though we had only sailed from Melbourne.

I had respect for them then, which is why I feel bad for most of them now.

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If anyone ever doubted that organised social media and forum whitewashing can be bought if you have the cash ... check out this thread.

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10 hours ago, sunseeker said:

A big part of the problem is that the “protest committee” of old has morphed into a lot of things it probably has no place being involved in.  The rules don’t deal well enough with technology, employment or maritime law, and yet the “protest committee” is God, or at least a lot of them act that way.

And pros are going to cheat until they get caught and penalized. The whole issue of financial penalties needs to be addressed too, that’s the only thing that’s going to stop this crap, though Oatley might not care about about a $100,000 fine. 

Agree, but there's more to it than that.  Many competitors are unwilling to protest as it loses them brownie points and creates tension in the clubby world of yachting.  It's a boys club where honour is allegedly the prime considertaion, hence the focus on self policing.  Reality is that there are any number of competitors who flaunt the rules knowing their chances of getting caught are minimal.  For example in measurement - here in Australia the onus is placed on other competitors to protest anomalies.   Club dynamics being what they are, few do and the authorities have a quiet life.  I know of a boat that won a division in a Sydney-Hobart race with a dodgy rating due to it flying non-measured sails.  Blatant cheating.  When those same sails were eventually measured the rating went up 10 clicks and the boat clearly wouldn't have won Hobart, but bo-one did anything about the win and it stands.

A lot of vested interest supports lite touch and self policing sadly.  Financial penalties are of limited value, but cheats being very publicly barred from the sport for a period of time can make a difference - reputational damage in high circles has weight to it for owners and cutting off income for pro sailors also gets attention.

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16 minutes ago, mad said:

Try that in the English Channel with some of the fishing boats, well known for turning AIS off. 

That's a very different location to be sailing in. The Aussie coast is like very quiet for shipping. 

On the same scale

Capture1.thumb.JPG.53baf7fda667cd3c9742d954fed4d980.JPG

 

Capture3.thumb.JPG.814cc01eee7da13900eb2e0d28f05b4e.JPG

 

and my old stomping ground

Capture2.thumb.JPG.77dbdd892438acddb3ac8204af2899a2.JPG

 

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3 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

Agree, but there's more to it than that.  Many competitors are unwilling to protest as it loses them brownie points and creates tension in the clubby world of yachting.

But fuck helping your fellow competitor or informing of something wrong in any way. Because it's win at almost any cost as long as you can brag about it? Pretty sure crying to the media 'loses you brownie points' just as much as a protest.

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14 hours ago, BooBoo said:

Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career .

 

Here you are, apology accepted in advance.

As I chose not to do BookFace i cannot attest to the veracity of this. Possibly those that do (BookFace) can.

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3 minutes ago, TPG said:

But fuck helping your fellow competitor or informing of something wrong in any way. Because it's win at almost any cost as long as you can brag about it? Pretty sure crying to the media 'loses you brownie points' just as much as a protest.

You're possibly right but my guess is that Harburg wanted the RC to do the dirty work so it wasn't him who shafted WOXI

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The two most recent races, the violation of SI and RRS suggest a pattern.

Whether it’s arrogance or ignorance, with a professional crew either is negligence. Last years race was properly protested by the fouled boat, and a penalty assessed. This year’s violation was tossed on a technicality. Perhaps it’s time for a level of scrutiny found in F1 and NASCAR, where the logo smothered contestants try to shave the rules, and the racers use a variety of tactics that involve poor sportsmanship. 

“BASIC PRINCIPLES
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire.“

Its pretty simple:

Any/all boats that sailed with out functional gear are in violation. Intent is not a factor  

Any boat’s that noticed the violation are expected to enforce the rules. 

Toss both WOXI and Black Jack for  rule 69.1 

 

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27 minutes ago, random said:

So they are incompetant

No.

Do try to keep up.

I think they cheated.

I was sarcasticually summerising the logic as presented in order to show how farcical it is.

Surely there cannot be anybody who believes this story?

(but this is a pointless discussion now. The fat lady has sung, WO 11 won, CYCA and the sport of sailing lost)

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

No.

Do try to keep up.

I think they cheated.

I was sarcasticually summerising the logic as presented in order to show how farcical it is.

Surely there cannot be anybody who believes this story?

Somebody will believe anything. 

Faith is belief in the absence of proof. Denial is belief in the presence of it. 

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2 minutes ago, Se7en said:

No.

Do try to keep up.

I think they cheated.

I was sarcasticually summerising the logic as presented in order to show how farcical it is.

Surely there cannot be anybody who believes this story?

This is the nub of it.

There is not one story but multiple stories (excuses) which only surface when an uncomfortable question arises.

 

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I'm still working through all the onboard systems trying to work out how a cameraman can fry my AIS TX. 

I've trying everything and I cant work out how he did it.

Unless you unscrew the ground for the antenna and use the PC USB port, and then I have to create an earth....nope, that's not it......

Fuck this is hard.

 

Maybe the cameraman picked up a megger instead of the camera? And screwed it in situ sans the VHF? That would do it. 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, DickDastardly said:

You're possibly right but my guess is that Harburg wanted the RC to do the dirty work so it wasn't him who shafted WOXI

True,  they are naive enough not to realise that the protestor does not DSQ anyone, the PC do.

How many fucking times have I said on these boards that rule infractions must be protested by anyone aware of them.  I have been howled down by most.

But this is what happens when you do not follow the rules.

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1 minute ago, LionessRacing said:

Somebody will believe anything. 

Faith is belief in the absence of proof. Denial is belief in the presence of it. 

cant we just create a poll

 

1) I believe it was deliberate and they cheated

2) I believe it was an accident/fault

3) I don't give a flying fuck

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10 hours ago, random said:

Before you get anymore off the track .... Read the fucking rules!   You have no excuse not to understand them, but you do not.

3.3
Acceptance of the rules includes agreement
  1. to be governed by the rules;
  2. to accept the penalties imposed and other action taken under the rules, subject to the appeal and review procedures provided in them, as the final determination of any matter arising under the rules;
  3. with respect to any such determination, not to resort to any court of law or tribunal not provided for in the rules; and
  4. by each competitor and boat owner to ensure that their support persons are aware of the rules.

Edit: There is no requirement for you or anyone else to agree with the Rules.  If you do not, do not sign on to the race, if you do then in effect it is a legally binding contract between you and the Organising Authority.  It is the law.

I see why most of the people in this forum think you are an asshole. Because you are. Your reply has nothing whatsoever to do with my post. 

Racing Rules are also not “the law”. 

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OKAY. The victory of WOXI is tainted with a hint of cheating, the attitude of Black Jack is incomprehensible and that of the jury is shameful. But it seems to me that someone is forgotten in that story: Comanche. Because, if a boat has been fucked in this story, it's Comanche. If I have understood the race, Comanche was leading by 3 NM, she fell in a hole with no wind and ended up with 3NM late. But why did they not cover their opponent? Did they make a tactical error or did they not know where WOXI was? If so, why did they not put a protest? The fact they did not is in favour of WOXI, don't you think so?
 

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38 minutes ago, random said:

Fuck, another oats sock. 

Get this through your thick skull.  It's about compliance to the rules.  They did not comply.

I do not give a fuck if it was deliberate or not.  They did not comply form before they started and should not have been allowed to take line honours.

It's that fucking simple.

I bet you were a fucking litter monitor or prefect at school and still have the blind focus on exclusively what is in front of your snotty nose. 

I’m so far from an Oats sock it’s beyond your grasp of numeracy. A rule is introduced this year for the first time. Arrogant fuck breaks it. Sure, simplistically he deserves a size 11 up the arse. But all 4 boats sailed the most exciting race we have seen possibly ever, so get over the need to tell the teacher that someone pulled some other girls hair and enjoy the brilliant sailing for which that each of them deserve to be congratulated. It gave no disadvantage to anyone whatsoever. Unlike last year when he nearly took both boats out of the race and genuinely deserved what he got. 

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4. I believe it was stupidity, then they lied about it and did not RAF asvthey should have, which makes them cheats

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1 minute ago, frant said:

They incompetently cheated or cheated incompetently. . Most probably cheated by incompetence. I suspect that they did not understand that the AIS  requirements of the SI’s require the unit to be Tx and Rx at all times, not just as per special regs which require the capability to do so. They then hit the silent button and submitted a valid declaration in accordance with their own incorrect understanding.of SI.

From then it’s all make it up as they go.

I think we agree completely, but I have the advantage of having just consumed a nice bottle of Shiraz.

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20 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

It gave no disadvantage to anyone whatsoever.

I hate fucking shills.

It's about rules, they did not comply with the rules.  Sailors get that,  shills just repeat the mantra.

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I have races against boats who did not carry all of the required equipment, and who had Spinnakers of questionable size and number appear during races, and never did anything about it. For some reason, only boats known for their strict adherence to the rules ever seemed to be audited post race . . . 

Given this steaming turd of an outcome, what is the proper process for ensuring a boat you suspect does not comply is investigated? Is it a protest? What about a boat who has never taken the required water and fuel, same steps?

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24 minutes ago, marcoo said:
OKAY. The victory of WOXI is tainted with a hint of cheating, the attitude of Black Jack is incomprehensible and that of the jury is shameful. But it seems to me that someone is forgotten in that story: Comanche. Because, if a boat has been fucked in this story, it's Comanche. If I have understood the race, Comanche was leading by 3 NM, she fell in a hole with no wind and ended up with 3NM late. But why did they not cover their opponent? Did they make a tactical error or did they not know where WOXI was? If so, why did they not put a protest? The fact they did not is in favour of WOXI, don't you think so?
 

So you joined in 2009, your post count says 10, but your profile only has two posts.

How the fuck does that work?

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3 minutes ago, Rantifarian said:

I have races against boats who did not carry all of the required equipment, and who had Spinnakers of questionable size and number appear during races, and never did anything about it. For

If you did not protest then you are the problem.

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13 minutes ago, random said:

So you joined in 2009, your post count says 10, but your profile only has two posts.

How the fuck does that work?

I don't talk very much. :+))  But that doesn't answer to my question.

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48 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

 

I’m so far from an Oats sock it’s beyond your grasp of numeracy. A rule is introduced this year for the first time. 

Was it? 

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1 hour ago, Crazy Cat said:

It gave no disadvantage to anyone whatsoever.

Of course it disadvantaged everyone who played by the rules and left their AIS transmitting! If you really think having AIS info of your opponents whilst hiding your own is no advantage you can't have done much racing since it was invented!

If it was a genuine mistake and it was all about what a jolly good fun race it was (as you seem to think) Woxi could and should have retired after the finish and just enjoyed being first over the line. Picking up the first prize when you know you have not won it is what I find so mind boggling.

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On 12/29/2018 at 3:38 AM, Rail Meat said:

Sad day and wrong outcome in my view. WOXI crew should be embarrassed - there is no honor in this outcome. 

 

On 12/29/2018 at 4:36 AM, HILLY said:

Mark Richards in the interview says that it was a gruelling race, 2 days with no sleep..

If he sticks around in Hobart long enough maybe he could buy the guys of Gun Runnner a few beers, and find out what gruelling really is....

 

6 hours ago, trisail said:

Paul Elvstrom said it all.

image.jpg

These three are it for me.

(Apart from the misplaced apostrophe in the last one.)

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17 minutes ago, staysail said:

Picking up the first prize when you know you have not won it is what I find so mind boggling.

It would be sweet if the room went silent when they pick up the prize at the ceremony....

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1 hour ago, DickDastardly said:

You're possibly right but my guess is that Harburg wanted the RC to do the dirty work so it wasn't him who shafted WOXI

Snowflakes.

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57 minutes ago, staysail said:

Of course it disadvantaged everyone who played by the rules and left their AIS transmitting! If you really think having AIS info of your opponents whilst hiding your own is no advantage you can't have done much racing since it was invented!

If it was a genuine mistake and it was all about what a jolly good fun race it was (as you seem to think) Woxi could and should have retired after the finish and just enjoyed being first over the line. Picking up the first prize when you know you have not won it is what I find so mind boggling.

My point (partially) was that every boat has access to the Yellowbrick data which provides more info than rolling your mouse over the boats AIS icon. So isn’t it a bit like missing the weather on the radio sked but still having access to the  BOM weather on your laptop?

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5 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

My point (partially) was that every boat has access to the Yellowbrick data which provides more info than rolling your mouse over the boats AIS icon. So isn’t it a bit like missing the weather on the radio sked but still having access to the  BOM weather on your laptop?

Not really.  Yellow Brick tracking is a better source than no source, but three factors make it less powerful than using AIS. 

  1. First, many races don't show heading or even speed on their tracker page.  The data is there, its up to the race to display it.  AIS always shows it
  2. Yellow Brick is very, very, very rarely real time.  Their pricing model is based on a per transmission model, and as a result the refresh rate is stretched out to economize.  I don't know what it was for SH, but it felt like 5 or 10 minutes. Lots of decisions can be made in those windows between transmissions where if I was looking at AIS there would be the option to react immediately to a competitors actions.
  3. Pulling down position data via your sat phone is expensive.  If you try to look at the race tracker on the race web site, it is ghastly expensive.  Many races offer a download, either through Expedition or through an FTP site.  But the update of the data on those downloads will never be more frequent than what you see on the race website, and often can be less frequent.  And will still cost money to do.  Its useful simply because it will give you fleet information for boats out of AIS range, but still not as good as having a target up on AIS.

 Mind you, I personally don't like the outcome of having AIS data available since it tends to turn racing into an exercise of "follow the leader and wait for mistakes".  Just look at the Volvo race or the start of the RdR for examples.  But if it is going to be mandated then I am sure as shit going to use the data to make decisions.  And if one boat is not transmitting then the other boats are disadvantaged.

 

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20 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

My point (partially) was that every boat has access to the Yellowbrick data which provides more info than rolling your mouse over the boats AIS icon. So isn’t it a bit like missing the weather on the radio sked but still having access to the  BOM weather on your laptop?

I don't know what sort of kit you are using with your AIS but mine gives me a continuous, almost real time, plot of the other boats tracks on my nav pc screen from which I can see the instantaneous COG, SOG, and the historic tracks plotted out, for all boats within a few miles of me. Courses accurate to one degree and speeds to a small fraction of a knot. Enables me to see if they have better (or worse) wind speed, wind angle, boat speed etc. where they are compared with what I have at my location, and I can see how the wind has been shifting where they all are, and it even helps me guess what the wind will do where I am in the near future. Pretty handy data to have, and even more beneficial for me, and a big disadvantage for them, when I can switch off my transmit switch and prevent them from seeing all the same data from me at my location. And I don't even need an internet connection. Don't quite see how I could get equivalent data from the other boats yellowbrick transmissions.

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33 minutes ago, Crazy Cat said:

Yes. It has never been mandatory before this year. 

MelbourneA31 wrote, in post 975, that it has been mandatory for 3 years already. Discuss.

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5 minutes ago, Rail Meat said:

Not really.  Yellow Brick tracking is a better source than no source, but three factors make it less powerful than using AIS. 

  1. First, many races don't show heading or even speed on their tracker page.  The data is there, its up to the race to display it.  AIS always shows it
  2. Yellow Brick is very, very, very rarely real time.  Their pricing model is based on a per transmission model, and as a result the refresh rate is stretched out to economize.  I don't know what it was for SH, but it felt like 5 or 10 minutes. Lots of decisions can be made in those windows between transmissions where if I was looking at AIS there would be the option to react immediately to a competitors actions.
  3. Pulling down position data via your sat phone is expensive.  If you try to look at the race tracker on the race web site, it is ghastly expensive.  Many races offer a download, either through Expedition or through an FTP site.  But the update of the data on those downloads will never be more frequent than what you see on the race website, and often can be less frequent.  And will still cost money to do.  Its useful simply because it will give you fleet information for boats out of AIS range, but still not as good as having a target up on AIS.

 Mind you, I personally don't like the outcome of having AIS data available since it tends to turn racing into an exercise of "follow the leader and wait for mistakes".  Just look at the Volvo race or the start of the RdR for examples.  But if it is going to be mandated then I am sure as shit going to use the data to make decisions.  And if one boat is not transmitting then the other boats are disadvantaged.

 

Your points RM:

1. Confining the discussion to this race only, the YB data shows SOG & COG over previous 1m, 5m& 10m intervals. 

2. Agree. 10m updates this race for data listed above. 

3. Not advocating using sat phone to look at CYCA tracker, that will cost a bomb. However for the data above (no graphics) which Expedition can then store and present as tracks. 

Your summary - spot on. Last few years in our fleets many of the leaders have turned off their transmitters (not mandatory) simply because the bunnies were following them and cashing in on their hard fought gains and risks. 

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1 minute ago, NORBowGirl said:

MelbourneA31 wrote, in post 975, that it has been mandatory for 3 years already. Discuss.

He was pretty clear. It has been mandatory that it be carried and that it worked if and when turned on. This year that was extended to be always on and both receiving and transmitting.

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2 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

It would be sweet if the room went silent when they pick up the prize at the ceremony....

Even better if it was to an empty room. 

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5 hours ago, savoir said:

 

It would be most unlikely for any of the smaller boats to be carrying internet capabilities beyond a weather service.

On top of that there would be no reason for any of them to monitor the AIS transmission of any of the maxis.

Now don't you forget to keep feeding those reindeer. A visit to Rovaniemi is on my bucket list and I also want to buy a Marrtiini knife while I'm there. Some things must be earned..

They most likely have several mobile phones with internet capabilities near stat and finish. Maybe even some other part of the race. Why wouldn't they be interested in the results, protests and what is written about the race? They may even look how far ahead the maxis are after the start and wonder why WOXI is not shown.

I live about 1000 km south from Rovaniemi. No reindeers around here. AFAIK they don't need to be fed, they find their food (lichen) from nature. Haven't used the Marttiini knives I have for ages. Sorry to disappoint you.

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4 hours ago, Rantifarian said:

I have races against boats who did not carry all of the required equipment, and who had Spinnakers of questionable size and number appear during races, and never did anything about it. For some reason, only boats known for their strict adherence to the rules ever seemed to be audited post race . . . 

Given this steaming turd of an outcome, what is the proper process for ensuring a boat you suspect does not comply is investigated? Is it a protest? What about a boat who has never taken the required water and fuel, same steps?

I raced in a class where crew weight was paramount.  On the last day of the regatta, one of the boats had 2 or 3 more bodies than the rest of us.  The boat Captain on one of the competitors met them at the dock with a scale...they RAF'd.  

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There are a lot of people on here that are fully butt hurt over this, however none of the other competitors obviously gave a shit as they didn't protest. If they don't care about it, which they obviously don't, why are all of you so angry.

If you want to see WOXI bought to justice, enter your boat next year and protest whatever dastardly thing they do next race. 

Not a WOXI fanboy, actually backing BJ, but BJ didn't care enough about the breech of rules to lodge a protest, so why should I? 

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8 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

There are a lot of people on here that are fully butt hurt over this, however none of the other competitors obviously gave a shit as they didn't protest. If they don't care about it, which they obviously don't, why are all of you so angry.

If you want to see WOXI bought to justice, enter your boat next year and protest whatever dastardly thing they do next race. 

Not a WOXI fanboy, actually backing BJ, but BJ didn't care enough about the breech of rules to lodge a protest, so why should I? 

I believe in living by the rules.  Not losing sleep over this one but someone should.  

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10 hours ago, Spoonie said:

What's that saying? Ignorance and stupidity VS malice and all that?

I meant that if you are disposed to cheat by not running transmit for the whole race then there is a high likelihood that you will be caught.  And that risk does not nearly offset the advantage gained by being invisible for the whole race.   

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6 hours ago, random said:

If anyone ever doubted that organised social media and forum whitewashing can be bought if you have the cash ... check out this thread.

I want what you're smoking!  But I'll check my mailbox for the next few days just in case......B)

 

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14 minutes ago, Cap't Billy said:

I meant that if you are disposed to cheat by not running transmit for the whole race then there is a high likelihood that you will be caught.  And that risk does not nearly offset the advantage gained by being invisible for the whole race.   

And that my friend is why many of us cannot wrap our heads around it.  Is anybody that arrogant or that stupid?  Doesn't matter, a sportsman would have RAF'd.  

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If I was Rolex I’d not be pleased with all this controversy.

Fake winner, might as well buy one of those Malaysian knock off Molex watches.

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4 hours ago, Crazy Cat said:

Yes. It has never been mandatory before this year. 

"Excuse me Mr Race Committee ...  Sir? ... can I say some thing?  Look it's a new rule it's OK that we fucked up, cause it's just a new rule right?"

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1 hour ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Not a WOXI fanboy, actually backing BJ, but ....

Hahahahahaaaaaaa.

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31 minutes ago, dash34 said:

I want what you're smoking!  But I'll check my mailbox for the next few days just in case......B)

 

Exhibit II-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

Exhibit 2-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

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29 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

And that my friend is why many of us cannot wrap our heads around it.  Is anybody that arrogant or that stupid?  Doesn't matter, a sportsman would have RAF'd.  

I think you and Billy have the right of it.  I think WOXI just screwed up and shut transmit off before the race like they always do because they forgot about the rule that says they have to keep it on.  They probably even filed their finishing report saying they were compliant, once again in ignorance, and later on discovered they had screwed up.  

But yes, they should have RAF'd after that, and they will have to hang their heads in shame from now on for not doing so.  

I do not have hard evidence for my opinion.  Note that I am not screaming "cheaters" from the rooftops, because I think they made an honest but stupid mistake.  Doesn't excuse that they didn't RAF, however.

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12 minutes ago, random said:

Exhibit II-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

Exhibit 2-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

Troll post is troll.

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7 minutes ago, TPG said:
20 minutes ago, random said:

Exhibit II-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

Exhibit 2-6: How Social Media Spending Compares to Big Data and Mobility Investments

Troll post is troll.

image.png.a55fe7cde50adc704ef5727e26645024.png

"We also asked companies how big their social media staff was across their entire organizations (not just in their divisions). The average number of social media employees working full-time across respondents’ companies was 56; the median was 19. These figures also demonstrate a big gulf between the respondents with a large social media staff and those with a small one.(See Exhibit II-7) About one-third of respondents totaled up 10 or fewer employees working full-time on social media across their entire company. At the other end were the 17% of respondents with more than 100 full-time social media staff across the organization."

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10 hours ago, frant said:

You are just digging a deeper hole. The other boats or Black Jack in particular have navigators that use AIS for tactical as  well as straight out vessel proximity management. It beggars belief that the navigator on WOXI could go the whole race without “noticing” that he was not receiving AIS from his competitors. 

Further if you sign a declaration then it must be correct or did an amended declaration get submitted with a mea culpa when the error was discovered?

This question kind of gets to the heart of it.  I suppose (but have no way of knowing) WOXI contends that their AIS was working perfectly all the way along - as far as they knew.  And they filed their Post Race Report along those lines.  Then on the strength of a suggestion that their AIS was not transmitting they should amend their report?  I would want to know myself, for sure and so perhaps (I have no way of knowing) they cranked it back up in Hobart (Cold Boot) and presto they popped right up on the net.  There is speculation about the Cameraman in Sydney taking it out but how can they know that?  Maybe they have been unable to repeat the problem and so never discovered an error.

There is the rub.  Are they responsible for a good faith effort or the outcome?  It's like putting the right postage on a correctly addressed letter and sending it off.  Something can go wrong after its out of your hands.  You don't have complete control over whether it gets where its going - the outcome.

And I am still struck by how this online inquisition is directed at only one boat.  It is said that as many as 30 percent of the fleet had AIS irregularities on the course.  If this is about safety or the proper application of the rules and fairness then why is no one demanding that these boats tracks be examined, their post race reports be reviewed and/or amended, or extraordinary protests be commenced by sailors sitting in an armchair half way around the world - to preserve the integrity of the sport?

It starts to sound personal - like a Witch Hunt - if we are not asking those boats to meet the same standards of rules compliance. 

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7 minutes ago, random said:

image.png.a55fe7cde50adc704ef5727e26645024.png

"We also asked companies how big their social media staff was across their entire organizations (not just in their divisions). The average number of social media employees working full-time across respondents’ companies was 56; the median was 19. These figures also demonstrate a big gulf between the respondents with a large social media staff and those with a small one.(See Exhibit II-7) About one-third of respondents totaled up 10 or fewer employees working full-time on social media across their entire company. At the other end were the 17% of respondents with more than 100 full-time social media staff across the organization."

Which companies were those and what was their marketing budget? I mean it's cool, you found an article about billion dollar corps using social media to market like a machine, and you have a hardon for comparing woxi's response to the hot mess that is this years SH, but your obsession here is like woody's obsession with the nursing home. Robert Oatley wines probably employs as many total as the companies you reference have running their daycare departments.

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8 hours ago, random said:

Fuck, another oats sock. 

Get this through your thick skull.  It's about compliance to the rules.  They did not comply.

I do not give a fuck if it was deliberate or not.  They did not comply form before they started and should not have been allowed to take line honours.

It's that fucking simple.

Amen

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4 minutes ago, TPG said:

Which companies were those and what was their marketing budget? I mean it's cool, you found an article about billion dollar corps using social media to market like a machine, and you have a hardon for comparing woxi's response to the hot mess that is this years SH, but your obsession here is like woody's obsession with the nursing home. Robert Oatley wines probably employs as many total as the companies you reference have running their daycare departments.

"Forbes magazine last year estimated his net (Bob Oatley) worth to be $910 million, while he was listed at number 49 on last year's BRW Rich List, with an estimated wealth of $1 billion."

Can't see them going without a Social Media Team.  Maybe you can, you on the payroll?

 

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8 hours ago, Ukuri said:

Except by their own admission they knew about it BEFORE they started and still chose to start knowing full well that they were non-compliant.

Post 797

"Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career ."

Emphasis mine.

That is not how I read this.

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13 minutes ago, Cap't Billy said:

This question kind of gets to the heart of it.  I suppose (but have no way of knowing) WOXI contends that their AIS was working perfectly all the way along - as far as they knew.  And they filed their Post Race Report along those lines

But they were not in compliance.  Is that too fucking hard for you to grasp such a simple concept?

They did not comply, they got the trophy!  How is that a good thing for the sport of yachting?

They showed arrogance and poor sportsmanship by not withdrawing from the race as soon as it was pointed out to them that they were non-compliant.

That's cheating.

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4 minutes ago, random said:

"Forbes magazine last year estimated his net (Bob Oatley) worth to be $910 million, while he was listed at number 49 on last year's BRW Rich List, with an estimated wealth of $1 billion."

Can't see them going without a Social Media Team.  Maybe you can, you on the payroll?

 

 

I'm sure it's a great gig but sadly they have no presence in seppo land. I'm sure they have a huge social media team comprising of whatever industry outsourced marketing  company they use. That has zero interest in the owners toys.

So tell me, what's the average value of the companies your study has? Not their owners net worth, the companies net worth.

 

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Just now, Cap't Billy said:

Post 797

"Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career ."

Emphasis mine.

That is not how I read this.

So they should have retired.  "oh please sir it wasn't my fault the dog ate my homework!"

Arrogant cunts.

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1 minute ago, random said:

So they should have retired.  "oh please sir it wasn't my fault the dog ate my homework!"

Arrogant cunts.

Maybe someone should have stepped up and protested them.

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2 minutes ago, Cap't Billy said:

Post 797

"Just seen this facebook post from one of the crew on wild oats. 

Saddened by the fact a few of my old mates would have thought we would use our AIS system onboard to our advantage by turning it off during the great race.
The fact is the system got fried when our onboard cameraman went live at the start, we had no idea at all during the race till we finished .
The Wild Oats team is one of the best loyalist teams I have sailed with in my whole sailing career ."

Emphasis mine.

That is not how I read this.

I'm not sure if I'm arguing with you or the quote, but there is absolutely NOTHING a cameraman working on batteries could do to fry anything.  Please stop the stupidity.  

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1 minute ago, TPG said:

I'm sure it's a great gig but sadly they have no presence in seppo land.

So tell me, what's the average value of the companies your study has? Not their owners net worth, the companies net worth.

 

I'm sure it's a great gig but sadly they have no presence in seppo land.

So tell me, what's the average value of the companies your study has? Not their owners net worth, the companies net worth.

 

https://sites.tcs.com/social-business-study/social-media-spending-staff/

So are you prosecuting the argument that the Oatley group of companies do not invest in responding to social media?

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1 minute ago, TPG said:

Maybe someone should have stepped up and protested them.

Definitely.  But true sportsman should have retired.

BASIC PRINCIPLES
SPORTSMANSHIP AND THE RULES
Competitors in the sport of sailing are governed by a body of rules that they are expected to follow and enforce. A fundamental principle of sportsmanship is that when competitors break a rule they will promptly take a penalty, which may be to retire."
 
"2 FAIR SAILING
A boat and her owner shall compete in compliance with recognized principles of sportsmanship and fair play. A boat may be penalized under this rule only if it is clearly established that these principles have been violated. The penalty shall be either disqualification or disqualification that is not excludable."

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11 hours ago, MelbourneA31 said:

To say that AIS is only a requirement this year is wrong, it has been in force for the last three editions of the Sydney to Hobart. the Special Regs only require it to be operational, the S.I's require it to be functioning at all times. I would expect that whoever did the Safety Audit of WOXI would have determined that the equipment was functioning correctly.

BTW VHF DSC and MF/HF DSC were also added to the Special Regs in that same review.

 

5 hours ago, NORBowGirl said:

MelbourneA31 wrote, in post 975, that it has been mandatory for 3 years already. Discuss.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good argument

 

5 hours ago, Francis Vaughan said:

He was pretty clear. It has been mandatory that it be carried and that it worked if and when turned on. This year that was extended to be always on and both receiving and transmitting.

Exactly

 

SI 2018

http://rolexsydneyhobart.com/media/3438679/rshyr-si-final.pdf

refer to 11.4 Changes to Special Regulations to see 

Quote

 

• Special Regulation 4.09 (a): An AIS Transponder shall be carried and be switched on, such that it is receiving and transmitting.


 

SI 2017

No such change to Special Regulations

 

AUSTRALIAN SAILING SPECIAL REGULATIONS PART 1 FOR RACING BOATS And Recommended for Cruising Boats Including Monohulls, Multihulls and Trailables These regulations come into effect in Australia from 1 July 2017.

https://s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/piano.revolutionise.com.au/site/dmmqegh5tpkojlb4.pdf
 

Quote

 

4.09 AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM (AIS)

The following shall be provided:

(a) An AIS Transponder. 1

(b) An AIS Transponder is recommended. 2

 

 

 

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They will review the way the SI has been written and we all move on to the 2019 Sydney to Hobart, the decision has been made and if you still dont like it enter the Launceston to Hobart, thats what it all boils down too. complain all you like the decision wont change.

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16 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

The last Fastnet entry (over 330 boats which was almost 4 times this year's RSHYC) The entry filled less than 10 minutes after it opened and included 7 round the world racers, a smattering of IMOCA 60s - how many in the S2H history have there been ANY IMOCAs - and even forward thinking enough to allow multihulls to race the course instead of just thinking about  it.

It is a lot easier to fill the entry list when most of the British, Irish, French, Dutch, German and Danish entries have a delivery trip that is shorter than the distance from Sydney to the border north or south.

Then the CYCA does not help itself with it's no-multi and no-short handed. 

The CYCA/AS stablility requirements don't help when they prevent boats like Shaggy's Pogo from entering.

 

16 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Lacks quality? A race where the coverage is dominated by a 10 year old race boat with more face lifts than an aging Hollywood starlet is hardly "Pointy end", the saddest thing for me with the media focus on the 100 footers is that the contenders for the true Sydney Hobart prize, the Tatersall Cup tend to get lost or missed  in the backwash.

The RSHYR has the glamour of having the best Maxi 100's, regardless of their age. Only half of WOIX is 10+ years old. It does have that over the Fastnet

Clearly from the 2018 race thread, it's more than the media who focus's on the 100's and ignores that Tatts

 

 

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10 hours ago, frant said:

Didn’t Comanches AIS proximity alarm go off near the start of last years race?

I’m not sure whether the AIS or the bowman went off first.

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13 hours ago, Chucky said:

You really do show your lack of knowledge in all your posts.

AIS is by far the best equipment technology to be available to yachts at a reasonable price in the last 10 years. Based on all the yachts in the hobart race and shipping traffic avoiding collisions is a high priority. I hope I am never in any yacht race against your yacht either in Port Phillip Bay or in the ocean. Please stay at the Squadron and do not sail with any other clubs in Melbourne.

please think before you post any more shit and try taking in the experience of the other posts!

ps the orcv has made AIS mandatory for a while in their ocean races.

 

I'm calling you out for BULLSHIT

The AS special regulations make having an AIS receiver mandatory for Cat 2 events, which the M2H & M2D are. However in the context of this whole WOIXs storm in a teacup thread, those races and AIS are irrelevant. You only need an AIS receiver and nothing in the SI refers anything different for AIS 

http://www.orcv.org.au/club/admin-editing/upload-document/racing-2018/2018-westcoaster/3362-2018-westcoaster-sailing-instructions-v1-00-final/file

Talk to me about AIS when you get some experience sailing in waters with shipping traffic that requires you to watch more than one commercial ship every couple of hours.

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3 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Talk to me about AIS when you get some experience sailing in waters with shipping traffic

Talk to us when you understand Sailing Instructions.

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