Mid

2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

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Sorry been away did Ricco end up providing the evidence he said he would? Was it a fried splitter? All this aside they have gotten to Hobart first in the last 2 races and I think they have proved they have the best all round boat. 

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10 minutes ago, frant said:

still incumbent on the measures to deal with not the competitor.IMHO.

But doesn't that ignore the fact that AIS is used for tactical purposes. No signal RX = tactical disadvantage. 

10 minutes ago, frant said:

If that is not the case then we should look at that section of the rules on protest for amendment.

The rules then state it is safety only provision and treated accordingly no different than other safety gear on board.

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5 minutes ago, terrafirma said:

Sorry been away did Ricco end up providing the evidence he said he would? Was it a fried splitter?

No further developments and well done for ticking over a new page. 

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36 minutes ago, frant said:

I suppose it is inevitable that we keep on going around in circles. 

Frant it seems to me that any resolution has to start with the RC reviewing if any changes to race boats and the environment on the race course has changed sufficiently to warrant AIS activation in full being made mandatory. Until they properly do that everything else is moot.

In that regard I think it would be pretty hard task to show any demonstrable changes have occured going back the few years to when the equipment itself first became mandatory. If it wasn't necessary then, why is it now?

The RC to save some face could wind it back to RX only being mandatory. That would at least deal with static AIS enabled fishing devices etc if they have become more prevalent. The issues attached to accelerated non-compliance and protests would then dissapear.

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4 hours ago, frant said:

After the dog come out refusing to yield the parcel of drugs they thanked us for cooperating in a training exercise. I reckon we had been flagged and watched on AIS and satellite from the time we had departed Eden.

Then again, the world is a wicked place.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-01-28/former-aussie-horse-trainer-and-wife-international-drugs-trade/10755836

 

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1 hour ago, terrafirma said:

Sorry been away did Ricco end up providing the evidence he said he would? Was it a fried splitter? All this aside they have gotten to Hobart first in the last 2 races and I think they have proved they have the best all round boat. 

It may well be a great boat but apparently the electrics need some work....

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3 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

What you don't get is that it enhances safety. Your reasoning is lacking sense, big time.

You should go and join the  next GGR !  You will be a perfect fit for that other idiot, Don McFuckface. Were you in the boyscouts together?

Anyway, don't forget your Walkman and your wheelchair, good luck !

 

Any chance you could ignore me a bit more quietly? 

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Plot line hasn't moved since I last tuned in a couple of weeks ago. Au revoir.

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56 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Frant it seems to me that any resolution 

Have you not heard? It has been resolved. WOXI won.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Any chance you could ignore me a bit more quietly? 

jeezus christ there are some dumb fucks on this thread. I bet a few of the cross the street at a pedestrian crossing without looking for traffic.

They clearly forget that AIS is not mandatory and as a result there could be cruisers or amateur fisherman out on the water with no AIS at all. The forget that as the S2H racers approach storm bay, they will encounter the L2H cat 3 racers for whom AIS is not even a recommended item on the SR and then in storm bay the cat 2 M2H fleet. 

For the racers more than 30 miles off the coast, 97% of of the AIS targets they will see will be fellow S2H yachts all heading in the same direction. The maxis might see 2 commercial ships offshore and the rest, perhaps 5 or 6. 

 

I'm happy to be on Fiji's ignore list because he is clearly one dumb fuck, firstly his head in the arse faith in AIS (probably has collisions at sea in god vis) and the fact that he dumb enough to announce his ignores. 

 

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

I think those pushing for AIS activation being made voluntary have a very solid argument. However the extension to that means they should also not object to its inclusion as a piece of equipment being removed? I doubt there would be many who would support that.

No, the correct "extension" to the voluntary AIS would be that AIS receivers be the mandatory minimum. Anyway, the fact that some or is it all MOB devices are AIS, then AIS should be fitted and receiving on all boats. I do think that AIS Transmitters being mandatory is a good thing, because there are times when it will be beneficial to your safety to turn it on TX.

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

What don’t i get cupcake? That you can only safely operate a vessel with lots of screens around you? 

Is that Fiji on the helm?

 

If only he had his AIS transmitting. I guess he has learnt his lesson 

and again...

 

 

Why wasn't the bridge transmitting. Pore Fiji

 

Fuck those sunfish, they should have mandatory AIS

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/yacht-crew-returning-from-sydney-to-hobart-winched-to-safety-20180114-h0i4fd.html

Fiji on a charter holiday, why didn't they have AIS on???

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, hoppy said:

 

 

quite a nice view

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38 minutes ago, hoppy said:

No, the correct "extension" to the voluntary AIS would be that AIS receivers be the mandatory minimum. Anyway, the fact that some or is it all MOB devices are AIS, then AIS should be fitted and receiving on all boats. I do think that AIS Transmitters being mandatory is a good thing, because there are times when it will be beneficial to your safety to turn it on TX.

So you now correct peoples analytical extensions and turn them into your own opinion.

By the way it is fiction, not "fact that some or is it all MOB devices are AIS." Only 406 EPIRB PLB's are mandated so the basis to your opinion falls away. You didn't read my words "I think those pushing for AIS activation being made voluntary have a very solid argument" when rushing in there with your fiction.

Anyway it is so good to have you back.

coming-out-of-grave-hocus-pocus-gif-www-thescottsmithblog.gif

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36 minutes ago, hoppy said:

 jeezus christ there are some dumb fucks on this thread.

Mmmmmm

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28 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

So you now correct peoples analytical extensions and turn them into your own opinion.

By the way it is fiction, not "fact that some or is it all MOB devices are AIS." Only 406 EPIRB PLB's are mandated so the basis to your opinion falls away. You didn't read my words "I think those pushing for AIS activation being made voluntary have a very solid argument" when rushing in there with your fiction.

Anyway it is so good to have you back.

coming-out-of-grave-hocus-pocus-gif-www-thescottsmithblog.gif

Shit I thought MOB rules included AIS MOB or some other kind of locator that the boats crew could use for recovery.

I think a AIS MOB would be more invaluable in a yacht race than a PLB. It allows the boat to hopefully recover the crew member, or even a nearby boat. If I went overboard, if my crew wants me back, I'd rather give them a better chance to recovering me than being reliant on a chopper. 

Even with crew having a PLB that's activated, I'm pretty sure most boats send out an SOS to AMSA as part of their MOB procedures.

Now if the CYCA want to make some sensible AIS related rules, they should consider AIS MOB's on all deck crew and AIS RX on at all times.

 

When I was solo I carried a PLB on my LJ. When my misses joined me, we had an AIS MOB each.  

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1 hour ago, frant said:

And even more importantly they won in the true Corinthian spirit to the rousing three cheers from their opposition. 

Do they have a Corinthian Division? I don’t think Oats would qualify.

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36 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Even with crew having a PLB that's activated, I'm pretty sure most boats send out an SOS to AMSA as part of their MOB procedures.

I'm pretty sure most boats MOB procedure is to poke around for an hour or so looking for them first, before letting the only people who can track that PLB know.

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3 hours ago, frant said:

Everyone knows deep down however that in this case it was a question of the silent mode switch.

Do they? I Would argue that in fact nobody ‘knows’ that. Speculation and suspicion are not knowing Frant.

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43 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:
  1 hour ago, hoppy said:

 jeezus christ there are some dumb fucks on this thread

 

43 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mmmmmm

Please don't quote Jesus Christ, dumb fucks, and loopy hoppy.

Thank you!

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What happened to your ignore Fiji. Stay strong and don't peek. That's why I have not quoted you...

8 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

I'm pretty sure most boats MOB procedure is to poke around for an hour or so first looking for them before letting anyone else know.

Sounds pretty stupid. It the PLB is properly "registered" on the AMSA site, it should be saying which boat it is on AMSA would contact them and the RO once the PLB is triggered 

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23 minutes ago, hoppy said:

I think a AIS MOB would be more invaluable in a yacht race than a PLB. It allows the boat to hopefully recover the crew member, or even a nearby boat. If I went overboard, if my crew wants me back, I'd rather give them a better chance to recovering me than being reliant on a chopper

What happens when everyone is floating in the piss. Hand Signals?

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18 hours ago, hoppy said:

Ok, prove it......

Show me the section

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingOffshoreSpecialRegulations20182019180104-[23449].pdf

APPENDIX E World Sailing Code for the Organisation of Oceanic Races An Oceanic Race is defined as any Offshore race over 800 miles.

21. The Sailing Instructions may include instructions; • To continuously monitor VHF Channel 16 • To have the AIS active at all times or to activate the AIS in reduced visibility and passages with extensive commercial traffic • For any other safety matters as appropriate

Still optional unless SI dictates, but S2H is not 800 miles

 

.

 

Are you serious????

We are talking about the AIS being in silent mode v transmitting, not turned off.

 

 

Read OSR 1.01.1

The purpose of the OSR is to establish UNIFORM minimum equipment etcetc

Then read 3.29.13.

It is in  Section 3 of the OSR which starts with the phrase "A boat shall be/have" shall being definitive not advisory.

Oh, and by the way, you can find 1.01.1 and 3.29.13 if you click on the link 

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingOffshoreSpecialRegulations20182019180104-[23449].pdf

Oh - wait a minute? That's the link you posted already :-) Be a good idea NOT to post references that prove yourself wrong.

If up until now the CYCA has NOT had the requirement as mandatory they have been behind the 8 ball as far as World Sailing safety regs are concerned

And by the way Appendix E is advice to race organisers NOT what boats competing in a Cat 1 "shall" carry.

The title "World Sailing Code for the ORGANISATION of Oceanic Races" should be a bit of a clue there.

Anyway, fed up being a tutor

TTFN

SS

 

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Just now, jack_sparrow said:

What happens when everyone is floating in the piss. Hand Signals?

The whistles in your LJ ;-)

Boat sinks you want a PLB, although an AIS MOB would be handy if any other boats in range, but the range is a bit limited. < 5nm??

If you go OB, you want an AIS MOB.

 

Obviously carrying both is best.

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3 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Sounds pretty stupid. It the PLB is properly "registered" on the AMSA site, it should be saying which boat it is on AMSA would contact them and the RO once the PLB is triggered

Yes that word stupid does come to mind. You obviously aren't aware of the potential lag time for 406 EPIRB's to show up at the neighbourhood RCC or in this case AMSA. Also degradation to signal from the PLB variety when each wave breaks over it.

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7 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Huh? Are you trying to be sarcastic or just succeeding in being ignorant?

I thought you thunk fish??

 

1 hour ago, hoppy said:

jeezus christ there are some dumb fucks on this thread. I bet a few of the cross the street at a pedestrian crossing without looking for traffic.

They clearly forget that AIS is not mandatory and as a result there could be cruisers or amateur fisherman out on the water with no AIS at all. The forget that as the S2H racers approach storm bay, they will encounter the L2H cat 3 racers for whom AIS is not even a recommended item on the SR and then in storm bay the cat 2 M2H fleet. 

For the racers more than 30 miles off the coast, 97% of of the AIS targets they will see will be fellow S2H yachts all heading in the same direction. The maxis might see 2 commercial ships offshore and the rest, perhaps 5 or 6. 

 

I'm happy to be on Fiji's ignore list because he is clearly one dumb fuck, firstly his head in the arse faith in AIS (probably has collisions at sea in god vis) and the fact that he dumb enough to announce his ignores. 

 

Hoppy, you have already admitted you haven't done a race since hand held radar guns. You are seriously becoming a thread pollutant, chill Lying Bastard is back, the pressure is off.

 
Edit .
Some really weird cross platform posting happened just then which I removed. Maybe I am under cyber attack?
 

 

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4 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes that word stupid does come to mind. You obviously aren't aware of the potential lag time for 406 EPIRB's to show up at the neighbourhood RCC or in this case AMSA. Also degradation to signal from the PLB variety when each wave breaks over it.

Don't worry Jack just "jump off" as Hoppy suggests and we will see what heppens.

 

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4 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Read OSR 1.01.1

The purpose of the OSR is to establish UNIFORM minimum equipment etcetc

Then read 3.29.13.

It is in  Section 3 of the OSR which starts with the phrase "A boat shall be/have" shall being definitive not advisory.

Oh, and by the way, you can find 1.01.1 and 3.29.13 if you click on the link 

https://www.sailing.org/tools/documents/WorldSailingOffshoreSpecialRegulations20182019180104-[23449].pdf

Oh - wait a minute? That's the link you posted already :-) Be a good idea NOT to post references that prove yourself wrong.

If up until now the CYCA has NOT had the requirement as mandatory they have been behind the 8 ball as far as World Sailing safety regs are concerned

And by the way Appendix E is advice to race organisers NOT what boats competing in a Cat 1 "shall" carry.

The title "World Sailing Code for the ORGANISATION of Oceanic Races" should be a bit of a clue there.

Anyway, fed up being a tutor

TTFN

SS

 

Yes they SHALL HAVE an AIS transmitter onboard... how many times do I have to write that I 100% agree with that rule.

Nowhere does it say that the AIS MUST be transmitting....

FFS

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If all else fails you still have your whistle so make sure to save some breath.

What is the whistle range vs VHF these days?

 

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes that word stupid does come to mind. You obviously aren't aware of the potential lag time for 406 EPIRB's to show up at the neighbourhood RCC or in this case AMSA. Also degradation to signal from the PLB variety when each wave breaks over it.

You are right, I'm not aware of the PLB time lag. More reason for someone to get on the radio as soon as the MOB occurs. 7 crew looking for the MOB and one alerting others in case outside assistance is required.    

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2 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Yes they SHALL HAVE an AIS transmitter onboard... how many times do I have to write that I 100% agree with that rule.

Nowhere does it say that the AIS MUST be transmitting....

FFS

That's one of the versions MR postulated.

 

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Just now, hoppy said:

You are right, I'm not aware of the PLB time lag. More reason for someone to get on the radio as soon as the MOB occurs. 7 crew looking for the MOB and one alerting others in case outside assistance is required.    

As opposed to a fucking red light flashing and telling you his immediate global position. Thats like having a heart attack and calling Crime Stoppers.......

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1 minute ago, paps49 said:

That's one of the versions MR postulated.

 

That is the rules that someone will understand if they don't read the race's SI ;)

Perhaps Richo did not read the SI thoroughly. 

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2 minutes ago, paps49 said:

As opposed to a fucking red light flashing and telling you his immediate global position. Thats like having a heart attack and calling Crime Stoppers.......

What read light flashing and what's telling his global position????

Jack made me aware that the race regs only require a PLB which is zero help to the crew on the boat who is looking for their MOB. No need to have the AIS on at all it seems.

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5 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Perhaps Richo did not read the SI thoroughly

This is getting entertaining. Did MR do the race single handed?

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13 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

This is getting entertaining. Did MR do the race single handed?

Sometimes it seems like it here

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17 minutes ago, hoppy said:

What read light flashing and what's telling his global position????

Jack made me aware that the race regs only require a PLB which is zero help to the crew on the boat who is looking for their MOB. No need to have the AIS on at all it seems.

What good is ais to a wet crewman when oats is traveling down wind at 25kts?

By the time the kite is down and the boat turned around, its out of range.

 

Of course,  that's if they can work the boat and watch the wet crewman at the same time.

 

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3 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

What good is ais to a wet crewman when oats is traveling down wind at 25kts?

By the time the kite is down and the boat turned around, its out of range.

Of course,  that's if they can work the boat and watch the wet crewman at the same time.

 

Yes not a good idea to fall off a quick boat even in daylight. AIS PLB range in shitty conditions is maybe a mile. Doing 25kts means your are out of range in less than 3 minutes. 

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Yes not a good idea to fall off a quick boat even in daylight. AIS PLB range in shitty conditions is maybe a mile. Doing 25kts means your are out of range in less than 3 minutes. 

Not a good idea to fall off any boat......

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43 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Jack made me aware that the race regs only require a PLB which is zero help to the crew on the boat who is looking for their MOB. 

Are you sure about that? Remember the RCC that you said that will call them if they don't, or are you now suggesting PLB's are of no use other than for plucking people out of the water by chopper?

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Even Lying Bastard has gone back under his foreskin. He lurked for hours today before posting and then his chief leg humper shot them both in the foot.


Fuck I love this place, even when it smells all fishy.

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1 hour ago, hoppy said:

Jack made me aware that the race regs only require a PLB which is zero help to the crew on the boat who is looking for their MOB. No need to have the AIS on at all it seems.

Hoppy I promise that I'm close to the end here. I have dilligently read your posts, which is like herding cats, to be sure on what I think your current position is.

1. AIS Trancievers should be mandatory as per the Special Regs.

2. You do not support the RC's decision to mandate activation of AIS both RX and TX for this race.

3. Your only concession to 2. is that if any crew members carry AIS PLB's, whilst not mandatory, that vessel must keep their AIS RX activated at all times.

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on clarifying your position.

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22 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Even Lying Bastard has gone back under his foreskin.

That's mean. @LB 15 is just resting ready to clock on when I clock off.

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8 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

What you don't get is that it enhances safety. Your reasoning is lacking sense, big time.

You should go and join the  next GGR !  You will be a perfect fit for that other idiot, Don McFuckface. Were you in the boyscouts together?

Anyway, don't forget your Walkman and your wheelchair, good luck !

 

I thought you had LB on ignore? 

Fuck I love this place. 

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1 minute ago, mad said:

I thought you had LB on ignore? 

Fuck I love this place. 

Mad I have come to the conclusion that when anyone who declares someone has been put on ignore, the first posts they read are those supposedly on ignore. Human nature is a funny thing.

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8 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Mate own gear RX and not a SOLAS vessel TX more probable as the cause.

Unlikely when one can see other targets at the same time, but you make my own point for me. There is no way of anyone knowing for sure.

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50 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Hoppy I promise that I'm close to the end here. I have dilligently read your posts, which is like herding cats, to be sure on what I think your current position is.

1. AIS Trancievers should be mandatory as per the Special Regs. correct

2. You do not support the RC's decision to mandate activation of AIS both RX and TX for this race. correct

3. Your only concession to 2. is that if any crew members carry AIS PLB's, whilst not mandatory, that vessel must keep their AIS RX activated at all times. I think RX should be on regardless. 

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on clarifying your position.

 

This was tongue in cheek...

1 hour ago, hoppy said:

No need to have the AIS on at all it seems.

 

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2 hours ago, hoppy said:

 This was tongue in cheek...

No drama. So Hoppy your your position about AIS in this race, with your confirmation and additions in bold is;

A. HOPPY's VIEW

1. AIS Trancievers should be mandatory as per the Special Regs. correct

2. You do not support the RC's decision to mandate activation of AIS both RX and TX for this race. correct

3. Your only concession to 2. is that if any crew members carry AIS PLB's, whilst not mandatory, that vessel must keep their AIS RX activated at all times. I think RX should be on regardless. 

Hoppy now this is not an opinion piece but one simply of me interrogating the reasoning behind your viewpoint.

1. For #1 and #2 your view accords with some here, so your are not alone.

2. For #3 you introduce a mandatory AIS RX and TX provision for any vessel carrying crew with non mandatory AIS PLB's. To add this provision you obviously put a lot of weight behind the benefits of AIS enabled PLB's.

I'm light of that #3 some quick background.

B. BACKGROUND

While AIS PLB's are on the market they are more bulky than their 406 EPIRB cousins and obviously impose the hassle of carrying two seperate transponders on the body. A combined single unit is still a long way off due to technical and national communication authority issues such as automatic switching etc. Until this is sorted their take up will not be large in the race boat market.

However quick boats can be out of range of a AIS PLB in one mile or less than 3 minutes. There is a strong argument in a fleet race, there is a higher probability in fast downhill conditions a following competitor(s) will see and nearly run over that AIS enabled MOB before their parent vessel can turn around and labour upwind to find them.

Therefore in light of the above a generalisation is those boats who might have AIS PLB's tend to be restricted to the 15/20 kts plus variety and or those with healthy budgets. I can name a few, where WOXI is one.

The only crewed offshore race in the world taking the above opportunities and constraints into mind that has made both AIS and 406 EPIRB PLB's mandatory is the VOR.

C. CONCLUSION

Finally as to the RC's decision making either good or bad was that AIS activation in full was mandatory this year. We don't know their "why' that but if one reason was the increasing use of AIS PLB's by some competitors and the above background in mind, I note the following.

1. With all competitors mandated to have their AIS on RX, this raises exponentially the already higher prospects of them seeing a AIS MOB and pulling them out of the drink before their parent vessel. This is above the RC's stated concerns about static AIS devices like fishing infrastructure and any vessel in the path of the fleet with a AIS TX on.

2. With all competitors mandated to have their AIS on TX, any competitor sporting AIS PLB's can quickly check their on board system is working. Short of throwing someone overboard with a activated AIS PLB mid race they have no ready means of being  assured all is working well. That is aside from mandatory AIS TX enabling a fleet better equipped to locate and look after their own in case of incident well before external SAR can be mobilised on this race course.

So the RC's decision to mandate AIS full activation would appear to be based on the concept of "mutual dependancy". A concept without that mandate unravels faster than a Hong Kong sweater.

If you go to the next step of WOXI's role either by design or technical badluck they were removed from that "mutual dependancy framework". They did however enjoy by the mandatory AIS TX transmissions of others unlike their own, that their own AIS RX was working sweet in case they had a MOB.

As @shanghaisailor says, 

Just Saying.

PS. Hoppy just in case you wonder why I went to the trouble of posting this? Your reply as follows in another thread with me trying to get rid of you polluting it was the tipping point. "..Jack in this thread regurgitating what he found on google."

As you love memes, enjoy the ride down Hoppy from jumping all by yourself.

 

tenor.gif

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4 hours ago, hoppy said:

Shit I thought MOB rules included AIS MOB or some other kind of locator that the boats crew could use for recovery.

I think a AIS MOB would be more invaluable in a yacht race than a PLB. It allows the boat to hopefully recover the crew member, or even a nearby boat. If I went overboard, if my crew wants me back, I'd rather give them a better chance to recovering me than being reliant on a chopper. 

Even with crew having a PLB that's activated, I'm pretty sure most boats send out an SOS to AMSA as part of their MOB procedures.

Now if the CYCA want to make some sensible AIS related rules, they should consider AIS MOB's on all deck crew and AIS RX on at all times.

 

When I was solo I carried a PLB on my LJ. When my misses joined me, we had an AIS MOB each.  

PLEASE don't recommend any more mandatory safety gear!

You can bet that when, (not if), AIS beacons are mandated for each crew that the requirement for PLBs will remain,  just for that 1 in a 1 000 000 chance that none of the surrounding boats AIS is working & the rescue crew only have 406.  I can't remember a piece of safety equipment being removed from the requirements in the 30+ years I have been doing this race.

The exception proving this rule is that you no longer need a trisail if you have a deep enough reef in your main.  The fast boats didn't like carrying them, & to be honest they are a bugger & bloody dangerous to rig on a big boat with mast cars.  I also noticed a number of orange reaching staysails towards the front of the fleet,  I wonder how effective they will be as storm jibs in 80 or 90+.

As for AIS usage,  even on a mid fleet boat we use it over the tracker to monitor our competition & other boats in range to try to be ahead of the next change, it can be worth hours to pick the timing of a front down to a couple of minutes as you watch it come through the fleet.

Do we keep it, I think that it is far from the most useless bit of safety kit on board & if we must carry it it should be operating as designed.  How to police that,  the same way all other unpoliceable (is that a word?) rules are enforced - the honour system & a declaration at the finish.

The only issue here is we haven't seen the declaration WOXI lodged, but the statements coming from the camp would lead people to believe that the failure to comply with the SIs was not noted.  If it wasn't,  that is poor form & once notified they should have done "something" to correct the "oversight".

The fact that they have given the impression of attempting to bully their way through the issue is why it is still an issue.

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13 minutes ago, TUBBY said:

PLEASE don't recommend any more mandatory safety gear!

You can bet that when, (not if), AIS beacons are mandated for each crew that the requirement for PLBs will remain,  just for that 1 in a 1 000 000 chance that none of the surrounding boats AIS is working & the rescue crew only have 406.  I can't remember a piece of safety equipment being removed from the requirements in the 30+ years I have been doing this race.

The exception proving this rule is that you no longer need a trisail if you have a deep enough reef in your main.  The fast boats didn't like carrying them, & to be honest they are a bugger & bloody dangerous to rig on a big boat with mast cars.  I also noticed a number of orange reaching staysails towards the front of the fleet,  I wonder how effective they will be as storm jibs in 80 or 90+.

As for AIS usage,  even on a mid fleet boat we use it over the tracker to monitor our competition & other boats in range to try to be ahead of the next change, it can be worth hours to pick the timing of a front down to a couple of minutes as you watch it come through the fleet.

Do we keep it, I think that it is far from the most useless bit of safety kit on board & if we must carry it it should be operating as designed.  How to police that,  the same way all other unpoliceable (is that a word?) rules are enforced - the honour system & a declaration at the finish.

The only issue here is we haven't seen the declaration WOXI lodged, but the statements coming from the camp would lead people to believe that the failure to comply with the SIs was not noted.  If it wasn't,  that is poor form & once notified they should have done "something" to correct the "oversight".

The fact that they have given the impression of attempting to bully their way through the issue is why it is still an issue.

Well said Tubby and not the first time they have appeared to attempt to bully.

I wonder if they had any input into the Jury Chairman (done 8 Hobarts) not being invited back after the penalty on WOXI in 2017.

Just hypothesising.

SS

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2 hours ago, TUBBY said:

The fact that they have given the impression of attempting to bully their way through the issue is why it is still an issue.

Good piece Tubby.

Plus throw in a spoon of elitism into this cake mix. For instance when Richo throwing AIS under his PR fuckup bus as a bonafide safety device saying the Race Tracker works just as well and better with added range as a safety device. He sort of forgot not everyone like WOXI has Satellite Broadband capability and so don't have Tracker access outside 3/4G Land Stations.

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4 hours ago, mad said:

I thought you had LB on ignore? 

Fuck I love this place. 

LB reacted to a post of mine, so then I get a notification. He asked me a question and I am then so kind to give him an answer. Got it?

Also, sometimes when ignored people get quoted, I get the urge to react. That's human nature too.

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Can you folks please get back to arguing about if and how bad WOXI cheated!?  Or if MR dyes his hair and if so has it fried his brain leading to multiple PR screw-ups almost every time he opens his mouth? 

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5 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

LB reacted to a post of mine, so then I get a notification. He asked me a question and I am then so kind to give him an answer. Got it?

Also, sometimes when ignored people get quoted, I get the urge to react. That's human nature too.

Yes but it’s not really ignoring someone is it sweet pea. You know you don’t get notifications from someone you have on ignore don’t you? It is sad enough when snowflakes like you puff out your sunken chests and scream ‘I have you on ignore’. It is even sadder when they then don’t do it and read every post. Only true pin dicks then tie themselves in knots trying to explain how the came to reply to an ignore poster. Want to put me on ignore cupcake? Knock yourself out, but actually do it this time you stupid cunt.

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2 minutes ago, VOA said:

People that have you on ignore get notification if you react to their posts. 

I like reacting to Bent sailor. 

Do they? Must be a new thing - I recall BJ telling me they didn’t. I have never put anyone on ignore so I didn’t know that but it is nice to know. Bitter Fiji will now get quoted at every opportunity. I want to see if the little pussy can prove he knows what the word means.

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11 hours ago, paps49 said:

Even Lying Bastard has gone back under his foreskin. He lurked for hours today before posting and then his chief leg humper shot them both in the foot.


Fuck I love this place, even when it smells all fishy.

Did you miss me princess? You must have if you are checking ‘for hours’ if I was on the site. In reality it took me about 30 mins to read the new pages. Most of it was just attempts by you to troll me. There certainly wasn’t anything new or original about DR Evil and his red shirts. Smarting still from showing you didn’t know about Satnav I guess. For such a know-all you are pretty ignorant Pap smear.

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5 minutes ago, VOA said:

Yep, they get notification. I just gave Bent a couple for fun

I might jump on that program as well. I wonder if it works even though he has me on ‘double secret ignore’ ?

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8 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Well said Tubby and not the first time they have appeared to attempt to bully.

I wonder if they had any input into the Jury Chairman (done 8 Hobarts) not being invited back after the penalty on WOXI in 2017.

Just hypothesising.

SS

Like Randumb used to ‘Hypothesis’ about George W Bush ordering the World trade centre attacks and the moon landing being filmed in Nevada? It’s called a conspiracy theroy. Do they sell tin foil hats over there?

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9 hours ago, TUBBY said:

PLEASE don't recommend any more mandatory safety gear!

You can bet that when, (not if), AIS beacons are mandated for each crew that the requirement for PLBs will remain,  just for that 1 in a 1 000 000 chance that none of the surrounding boats AIS is working & the rescue crew only have 406.  I can't remember a piece of safety equipment being removed from the requirements in the 30+ years I have been doing this race.

The exception proving this rule is that you no longer need a trisail if you have a deep enough reef in your main.  The fast boats didn't like carrying them, & to be honest they are a bugger & bloody dangerous to rig on a big boat with mast cars.  I also noticed a number of orange reaching staysails towards the front of the fleet,  I wonder how effective they will be as storm jibs in 80 or 90+.

As for AIS usage,  even on a mid fleet boat we use it over the tracker to monitor our competition & other boats in range to try to be ahead of the next change, it can be worth hours to pick the timing of a front down to a couple of minutes as you watch it come through the fleet.

Do we keep it, I think that it is far from the most useless bit of safety kit on board & if we must carry it it should be operating as designed.  How to police that,  the same way all other unpoliceable (is that a word?) rules are enforced - the honour system & a declaration at the finish.

The only issue here is we haven't seen the declaration WOXI lodged, but the statements coming from the camp would lead people to believe that the failure to comply with the SIs was not noted.  If it wasn't,  that is poor form & once notified they should have done "something" to correct the "oversight".

The fact that they have given the impression of attempting to bully their way through the issue is why it is still an issue.

For Fucks Sake Tubby, where did I say that PLB should be dropped from Mandatory????

I just said that AIS MOB would be more invaluable in a yacht race, i.e. with other boats around an AIS MOB may assist in a faster rescue than a MOB. If there are no boats near by, the boat who lost their crew is struggling to get to the vicinity, conditions make receiving the AIS poor or maybe the MOB occurred when the boat rolled or was knocked down damaging the VHF antenna, then it's fucking obvious that it's the PLB is what's needed.

It's clear that in an ocean race that the best scenario is that you have a PLB and an AIS MOB on you.

Wouldn't you rather be carrying both? but obviously if you only have one, the PLB is better.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Do they? Must be a new thing - I recall BJ telling me they didn’t. I have never put anyone on ignore so I didn’t know that but it is nice to know. Bitter Fiji will now get quoted at every opportunity. I want to see if the little pussy can prove he knows what the word means.

but you forgot to quote him.

I'm on his ignore list, so I like the idea 

 

7 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

 

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14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

This is getting entertaining. Did MR do the race single handed?

Well according to Pap smear he was the only one that cheated.

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13 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

That's mean. @LB 15 is just resting ready to clock on when I clock off.

Poor old Pap smear has a real boner for me now. Because he is a leftist he must toe the party line and not celebrate 'Invasion day' , he complains that I spend a few days away from this mild entertainment to celebrate all that is great about our wonderful country in the true Australian way - Swilling beer while wallowing at a floating bar we made in Horseshoe bay and cooking BBQ's on the beach in the national park. 

It was a day to reflect on how lucky we are and to pay tribute to some of the sporting icons that make this country great - Don Bradman, Pharlap, Cathy Freeman, Marjorie Jackson, Cliff Young, and our greatest ever Yachtsman - Mark Richards.

Oh yes indeed it is a great time to be an Australian.

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14 hours ago, hoppy said:

The whistles in your LJ ;-)

Boat sinks you want a PLB, although an AIS MOB would be handy if any other boats in range, but the range is a bit limited. < 5nm??

If you go OB, you want an AIS MOB.

 

Obviously carrying both is best.

Line of sight so wave height dependent and persons arm length

14 hours ago, Ease the sheet. said:

What good is ais to a wet crewman when oats is traveling down wind at 25kts?

By the time the kite is down and the boat turned around, its out of range.

 

Of course,  that's if they can work the boat and watch the wet crewman at the same time.

 

Oats, like all 100's, can furl a sail in less than 10 secs with power winches so can turn back quicker than you think plus the helmsman would hit the MOB button .... It is still the first thing you would go for if in the piss over the PLB

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Poor old Pap smear has a real boner for me now. Because he is a leftist he must toe the party line and not celebrate 'Invasion day' , he complains that I spend a few days away from this mild entertainment to celebrate all that is great about our wonderful country in the true Australian way - Swilling beer while wallowing at a floating bar we made in Horseshoe bay and cooking BBQ's on the beach in the national park. 

It was a day to reflect on how lucky we are and to pay tribute to some of the sporting icons that make this country great - Don Bradman, Pharlap, Cathy Freeman, Marjorie Jackson, Cliff Young, and our greatest ever Yachtsman - Mark Richards.

Oh yes indeed it is a great time to be an Australian.

Did you become a citizen LB?

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3 minutes ago, paps49 said:

Did you become a citizen LB?

I did. Me and a bunch of my Lebo bro's took the pledge. Even got me a couple of new Tatts to mark the occasion. Found a great new Tattoo shop.

Image result for Tattooed bogan with aussie flag

Image result for Tattooed bogan with aussie flag

Image result for wild oats tattoo

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2 hours ago, PIL66 said:

Line of sight so wave height dependent and persons arm length

Oats, like all 100's, can furl a sail in less than 10 secs with power winches so can turn back quicker than you think plus the helmsman would hit the MOB button .... It is still the first thing you would go for if in the piss over the PLB

Mate that's the easy bit, still got a lot of main to tuck in to be able to motor uphill when it's sporty. That's going to be a lot of time in the water so you will be hoping someone doing the drift and current calcs from that MOB position get it right.

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2 hours ago, PIL66 said:

 

Oats, like all 100's, can furl a sail in less than 10 secs with power winches

Man, that's a headfuck step for me Pil. 

Getting used to powered winches doing things like furliing...I get how you size the torque loading of the winch so you don't over power the sail and tear it to bits, but still. But this would be critical on a boat that big wouldn't it?

That's a lot of torque to furl something that big.

What happens if there is pressure in the sail when you furl? Can you fuck up and pull the sail apart?

 

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10 minutes ago, shaggybaxter said:

What happens if there is pressure in the sail when you furl? Can you fuck up and pull the sail apart?

Don't forget sucking in the bowman and pulling him apart.

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26 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't forget sucking in the bowman and pulling him apart.

Is that what happened to your head foot?

 

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On the subject of tracking I see Queensland Fisheries joins others starting this year with a Vessel Monitoring System. So big brother watches position and activity of mainly trawl vessels I think. Includes fishing quota (number of days-at-sea) checking.

The system and gear is provided by this crowd which is interesting as Inmarsat usually get these gigs

https://www.polestarglobal.com

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13 hours ago, TUBBY said:

PLEASE don't recommend any more mandatory safety gear!

You can bet that when, (not if), AIS beacons are mandated for each crew that the requirement for PLBs will remain,  just for that 1 in a 1 000 000 chance that none of the surrounding boats AIS is working & the rescue crew only have 406.  I can't remember a piece of safety equipment being removed from the requirements in the 30+ years I have been doing this race.

The exception proving this rule is that you no longer need a trisail if you have a deep enough reef in your main.  The fast boats didn't like carrying them, & to be honest they are a bugger & bloody dangerous to rig on a big boat with mast cars.  I also noticed a number of orange reaching staysails towards the front of the fleet,  I wonder how effective they will be as storm jibs in 80 or 90+.

As for AIS usage,  even on a mid fleet boat we use it over the tracker to monitor our competition & other boats in range to try to be ahead of the next change, it can be worth hours to pick the timing of a front down to a couple of minutes as you watch it come through the fleet.

Do we keep it, I think that it is far from the most useless bit of safety kit on board & if we must carry it it should be operating as designed.  How to police that,  the same way all other unpoliceable (is that a word?) rules are enforced - the honour system & a declaration at the finish.

The only issue here is we haven't seen the declaration WOXI lodged, but the statements coming from the camp would lead people to believe that the failure to comply with the SIs was not noted.  If it wasn't,  that is poor form & once notified they should have done "something" to correct the "oversight".

The fact that they have given the impression of attempting to bully their way through the issue is why it is still an issue.

I’d fucking love to see what survives a 80-90 knot blow?

Best let the sailmakers in on that one, and the spar maker! 

You can definitely retire with millions in the bank. 

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38 minutes ago, frant said:

Unfortunately the worst case scenario situation is the one that is going to come into play. It’s the crash gybe in the middle of the SO. That needs to be considered. No point in any discussion of an event like the S2H utilising anything but best practice. That is AIS Tx and Rx fully functional at all times, if the splitter is fried (or drowned in a wipeout) should have resources to rectify that before it becomes a matter of life or death.

That is a matter of respect to those who have been lost.

Please explain how it helps in a MOB situation?

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Don't forget sucking in the bowman and pulling him apart.

he'll be cocooned and come out as a butterfly....

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Any choices on ring girls or guys? I can see we’re lining up for another page. 

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6 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Please explain how it helps in a MOB situation?

TX mmm...how about other vessels responding to your MOB Distress Alert being able to find you quickly and from a distance maybe 15 times greater than a PLB beacon can transmit?

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Your position will be displayed on their VHF units because you've hit the DSC button. Your nav can direct you to that position.

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