Mid

2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

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1 hour ago, Cap't Billy said:

I'm trying to figure out how the Race Committee is an interested party?

 

Read the RRS about interested parties. RC is one.

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40 minutes ago, richiec said:

Answer the question. Should everyone that had AIS 'issues' cop the same penalty, right through the fleet? Yes? No? 

 

2 minutes ago, Maw said:

Yep. Simple.

 

Not so if they have preferably reported it mid race but importantly included it in their post race declaration. If they believe they have unknowingly breeched and put in their declaration indicating they have complied with RRS and SI's then I'm unsure as to how they go about outing themselves and then individual hearings being convened. 

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3 minutes ago, Maw said:

It would be like commercial suicide if AoaSG did in my opinion. CYCA would probably see it as antagonising the situation and out her for a generation. I wouldn't go near it. 

Yep, Nic has had to fall in line with the Man.  Her gig was shaping up as an interesting alternative to the mainstream.  Now she is the mainstream.

She has discovered the commercial realities and needs to do what she is told, don't upset anyone.  So what's the point of subscribing or watching if it's the same old shit?

And Nic, it would be less annoying if you stop giggling and looking at the camera regularly.  Someone has to say it.

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Who instigates a Rule 69 if it is found they did turn it off? RC again or an individual boat (would be a big queue lining up if it were a boat!) 

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1 minute ago, thetruth said:

Who instigates a Rule 69 if it is found they did turn it off? RC again or an individual boat (would be a big queue lining up if it were a boat!) 

You could if you wanted to by simply sending World Sailing and RO a letter. RC will then determine (probably with advice of someone independent) if a hearing should be convened and if so the matter is then determined by the IJ. You don't have to appear or anything.

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5 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Any news?  They've been in there an hour.

 

There is absolutely no way that the jury will rush this. They know that we are watching and come to think of it, the rest of the sailing world is watching too.

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5 more balls in this over before channel 7 can cut from the cricket to announce the result... :lol:

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1 hour ago, Hobie Anarchy said:

No such thing as an interested party in the 2017-2020 RRS.  The term has been replaced by "Conflict of Interest."  It's irrelevant anyway.  RRS  60.2(a) gives the RC an explicit right to protest except for certain conditions, none of which apply here.

Re interested party conversation.

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1 minute ago, jack_sparrow said:

You could if you wanted to by simply sending World Sailing and RO a letter. RC will then determine (probably with advice of someone independent) if a hearing should be convened and if so the matter is then determined by the IJ. You don't have to appear or anything.

PC is the only way for a 69 hearing to progress.

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37 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

Like I said a full time PROFESSIONAL skipper would know

Professional navigator too

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MR would be panicking internally I would think!

SO as the owner probably isn't as enamoured with MR or the whole WO program financially as what the old man Bob was (with his prodigal son in MR) 

his reputation and career in sailing going forward probably rest on this as well as the whole program continuiing

 

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50 minutes ago, dash34 said:

That statement makes the assumption that they knew about it not working during the race.  I haven't seen anything posted on here that establishes that as fact.  PC's work with facts, not speculation.  That's why we have SA.

Of couse they knew. Richo admits as much in his post finish interview when he says something like " It doesn't matter because they aren't compulsory " I forget the exact words.

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On ABC news now. Ruled that BJ had an interest and should have protested. They didn't so protest dismissed. 

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Fast boat, dedicated committed owners with deep pockets, doing a lot for sailings profile. shame it comes down to a shitfight two years running through being slack on crossing the T's and dotting the I's. [or crossing   Comanche and checking the a.I.s ]  ABC just confirmed protest not upheld.

 

 

 

 

 

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I don't get it. 

-- RC opened the protest based in information they said they'd gained independently
-- RC had standing, as the organizing authority
-- BJ not a party to the proceeding

...so why is "BJ didn't file a protest" a factor?  What am I missing (other than the obvious assumption that deep pockets are in play)

 

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So kids, the moral of the story is, ignore the rules you don’t like and you’ve got a good shot at dodging any penalty.

Remind me why sailing is dying?

 

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Surprised Butterworth didn't know or didn't have the balls. Whichever way you look at it Ricko leads a very charmed life (not a touch of grey after 55 years!) A sad day in our great sport........ 

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2 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I don't get it. 

-- RC opened the protest based in information they said they'd gained independently
-- RC had standing, as the organizing authority
-- BJ not a party to the proceeding

...so why is "BJ didn't file a protest" a factor?  What am I missing (other than the obvious assumption that deep pockets are in play)

 

Need to wait to see the full findings from the PC.

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1 minute ago, EddyAllTime said:

Protest dismissed. Sanity has prevailed. 

 

Eat a dick all you haters.

 

To the crew of Black Jack - You lost. Go home.

ABC reported that the protest was invalid not dismissed.  That suggests the issue was never tested.

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1 minute ago, sledracr said:

...so why is "BJ didn't file a protest" a factor?  What am I missing (other than the obvious assumption that deep pockets are in play)

Protest didn't get to first base. Without BJ protest there was no protest.

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2 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I don't get it. 

-- RC opened the protest based in information they said they'd gained independently
-- RC had standing, as the organizing authority
-- BJ not a party to the proceeding

...so why is "BJ didn't file a protest" a factor?  What am I missing (other than the obvious assumption that deep pockets are in play)

I'm with you on this one.  BJ is not material, just supplied information, as I expect did others.  I would love to read the formal protest announcement when it's posted.

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So the RC looked at the AIS as a tactical tool, not a safety tool? Stumped

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6 minutes ago, sledracr said:

I don't get it. 

-- RC opened the protest based in information they said they'd gained independently
-- RC had standing, as the organizing authority
-- BJ not a party to the proceeding

...so why is "BJ didn't file a protest" a factor?  What am I missing (other than the obvious assumption that deep pockets are in play)

 

60.3

A protest committee may(a)protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from a person  with  a conflict  of  interest...

the representative of BJ that transmitted the information to the RC is an interested party....

so that information can not form the basis for an RC protest

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1 minute ago, EddyAllTime said:

Protest dismissed. Sanity has prevailed. 

 

Eat a dick all you haters.

 

To the crew of Black Jack - You lost. Go home.

You do realize the RC didn’t say they didn’t cheat, just that Black Jack didn’t protest. 

Enjoy being a fan of a boat that cheats to win. 

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That decision makes no sense. Something BJ did or did not do is irrelevant. The jury can only look at what the RC did or did not do.

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Yep, kinda hard not to see a stain on the crew. Off on a technicality. Not an honourable way to win it , but rules is rules, I understand the finding.

 

 

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1 minute ago, lahana said:

So the RC looked at the AIS as a tactical tool, not a safety tool? Stumped

They didn't look at anything. Protest hearing didnt get to first base.

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Well, that's it.  Yet another nail in the coffin of our fine and lovely self-policed sport, practiced and managed for centuries by people of honesty and integrity.

What next?  Mandatory on-board umpires?

Fuck it, I'm taking up croquet.
 

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1 minute ago, Reflex Sailor said:

RC should have been braver.  Terrible day for sailing as a sport.

I suspect the RC argued all right. The first thing a PC does is establish if the protest is valid. This normally takes a few minutes. This hearing took over an hour to decide that the protest was not valid. That's a lot of time considering.

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Psychopathy Checklist

  1. Superficial charm and glibness
  2. Inflated sense of self-worth
  3. Constant need for stimulation
  4. Lying pathologically
  5. Conning others; being manipulative
  6. Lack of remorse or guilt
  7. Shallow emotions
  8. Callousness; lack of empathy
  9. Using others (a parasitic lifestyle)......
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1 hour ago, random said:

Not hard to tell, but in the end it does not matter what the reason was.  It was not working and the RC was not advised.

 

17 minutes ago, savoir said:

Of couse they knew. Richo admits as much in his post finish interview when he says something like " It doesn't matter because they aren't compulsory " I forget the exact words.

So, now we have information that MR says it was on during the race, and that they didn't know it was off.  Hmmmm.  The other boats were definitely aware of it being off during the race, but apparently said nothing to WOXI or the RC.  Hmmmm.  If they had, WOXI could have been informed of the problem during a sked.  There is shit to sling around for everyone on this matter.

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Just now, dash34 said:

 

So, now we have information that MR says it was on, and that they didn't know it was off.  Hmmmm.

Obviously the RC don't watch TV. Post race apparently AIS was not compulsory according to Richo's take on the Sailing Instructions.

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Sad day and wrong outcome in my view. WOXI crew should be embarrassed - there is no honor in this outcome. 

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2 minutes ago, bigkite said:

Obviously the RC don't watch TV. Post race apparently AIS was not compulsory according to Richo's take on the Sailing Instructions.

So what.  He was wrong, but it is possible he only just found out about it being off when the interview happened.  Came up with something to say to the media, even though it was shit.  Not the first time someone has done that.

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2 minutes ago, trt131 said:

C'mon Clarkey, surely you have something to say, you usually do.

The picture says it all...

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7 minutes ago, us7070 said:

60.3

A protest committee may(a)protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from a person  with  a conflict  of  interest...

the representative of BJ that transmitted the information to the RC is an interested party....

so that information can not form the basis for an RC protest

Here it is

The rules are the rules the PC are correct. Let's put the pitchforks down and stop with the internet outrage. Oats were faster no amount of AIS would have put BJ ahead. Races are won on the water not in a protest room and calm down with the emotional crap on here, you dont need to be outraged all the time show some balance.

 

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Cant doubt the speed of the silver arrow, 2 years in a row touched up her greatest rivals, where it matters most from Tasman Island......

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1 minute ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

Here it is

The rules are the rules the PC are correct. Let's put the pitchforks down and stop with the internet outrage. Oats were faster no amount of AIS would have put BJ ahead. Races are won on the water not in a protest room and calm down with the emotional crap on here, you dont need to be outraged all the time show some balance.

 

That’s like saying my biggest spinnaker didn’t measure but hey, it doesn’t matter because I didn’t use it.

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3 minutes ago, Forourselves said:

The picture says it all...

Says stacks?

 

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2 minutes ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Perhaps BJ didn’t want to win that way so hence no protest but didn’t want the cheating swept under the carpet.

So just whine like a bitch on TV and hope the RC protests and gives you the win in the end? Class act by Bradford & Harburg.

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Just now, Reflex Sailor said:

That’s like saying my biggest spinnaker didn’t measure but hey, it doesn’t matter because I didn’t use it.

No it not at all like that wow

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5 minutes ago, Liquid Assett NZ said:

Here it is

The rules are the rules the PC are correct. Let's put the pitchforks down and stop with the internet outrage. Oats were faster no amount of AIS would have put BJ ahead. Races are won on the water not in a protest room and calm down with the emotional crap on here, you dont need to be outraged all the time show some balance.

So essentially you're saying you can get away with a fundamental breakage of a primary NOR or SI regulation, if nobody else bleats about it? 

How about that 'accidental' nudge into gear while the engine is charging batteries on that calm night when nobody is near? How about stacking all the spare water in the top windward bunks?  How about....?

Oh hell, I'm out.

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Just now, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

So just whine like a bitch and hope the RC protests and gives you the win in the end? Class act by Bradford & Harburg.

Or just let cheats get away with it. Shows where your values lie :-p

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Just now, Liquid Assett NZ said:

Here it is

The rules are the rules the PC are correct. Let's put the pitchforks down and stop with the internet outrage. Oats were faster no amount of AIS would have put BJ ahead. Races are won on the water not in a protest room and calm down with the emotional crap on here, you dont need to be outraged all the time show some balance.

 

Well said Sir ...... but am afraid that almost all are totally unhinged on this site so asking for balance is a useless request .......

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RRS.

60.2 A race committee may (a) protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from a person with a conflict of interest other than the representative of the boat herself; (b) request redress for a boat; or (c) report to the protest committee requesting action under rule 69.2(b).
60.3 A protest committee may (a) protest a boat, but not as a result of information arising from a request for redress or an invalid protest, or from a report from a person with a conflict of interest other than the representative of the boat herself. However, it may protest a boat (1) if it learns of an incident involving her that may have resulted in injury or serious damage, or (2) if during the hearing of a valid protest it learns that the boat, although not a party to the hearing, was involved in the incident and may have broken a rule;

Looks right.

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1 minute ago, P_Wop said:

So essentially you're saying you can get away with a fundamental breakage of a primary NOR or SI regulation, if nobody else bleats about it? 

How about that 'accidental' nudge into gear while the engine is charging baterries on that calm night when nobody is near? How about stacking all the spare water in the top windward bunks?  How about..../

Oh hell, I'm out.

P_Wop thats three times you have said you are out, but back you come each time.  Either in or out.

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22 minutes ago, EddyAllTime said:

Protest dismissed. Sanity has prevailed. 

 

Eat a dick all you haters.

 

To the crew of Black Jack - You lost. Go home.

We all lost today 

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5 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

So just whine like a bitch and hope the RC protests and gives you the win in the end? Class act by Bradford & Harburg.

Only good thing from this. If you don't protest as policeman in a self policed sport, don't expect the prosecutor to be the policeman.  

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Just now, trt131 said:

P_Wop thats three times you have said you are out, but back you come each time.  Either in or out.

A bit of both.  Try it one day.  It's fun.

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2 minutes ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Or just let cheats get away with it. Shows where your values lie :-p

I'm just interested in hearing Harburg's(sp?) reasoning as to how they were greatly disadvantaged by not being able to see them on AIS. Did no one one board hand him a pair of binoculars for the duration of the race and point him towards Oats?

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Hoping for a 2-3 day postponement.

Aussies having at it over S2H is freaking cool.

Seriously, all we got Stateside is...uh...nothing.   Nothing.

Great show.  Carry on.

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Just now, blunderfull said:

Hoping for a 2-3 day postponement.

Aussies having at it over S2H is freaking cool.

Seriously, all we got Stateside is...uh...nothing.   Nothing.

Great show.  Carry on.

I guess picking on Trump would be unfair .........:lol:

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