Mid

2018 Rolex Sydney Hobart Yacht Race: The Race Committee has lodged a protest against Wild Oats XI

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11 hours ago, mad said:

Final death throes before rigor mortis sets in properly. :P

I thought this thread was well and truly sent to the dog food factory, canned and put on the supermarket shelves...

 

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As I have suggested before, this thread just shows the arrogance and stupidity of the ocean racing community.

Most of this thread has been about tactical use of AIS and protests and shit like that.

So just spoilt little boy racers thinking they are special.

Well guess what dickheads you are simply an irrelevant little part of a wider maritime community.

And any competent master of a vessel , regulated or not, will use collision avoidance systems full time, end of story.

Can't wait for the first night time collision between two race boats travelling at speed.

But wait the AIS was turned off because we did not anyone to know where we were.

Just fuckwits!

 

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Here is a more important question.

Do WO XI and Comanche race to Hobart under different laws?

If the answer is yes, then clearly, one boat has committed an offence under Australian law.

And this year one boat will need to be carrying a whole lot more equipment (weight)!

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30 minutes ago, lydia said:

There you go JS!

Spit it all out Lydia better off your chest..!

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2 hours ago, terrafirma said:

Spit it all out Lydia better off your chest..!

Seriously ,ais falls into the same category as radar

if fitted you better have it on to satisfy your “lookout” obligations under the col regs as the obligation is to keep a lookout by all available means appropriate to the conditions

collison avoidance decisions fall under a different catergory in that at close quarters you cannot use ais as the sole decision making tool in taking avoiding action

That’s right, col regs obligations did not apply to precious little race boats

like the Ad  used to say “100 percent of collisions happen within zero metres of your boat”

 

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31 Dec 2018 15:10 AEDT

Quote

We can very clearly prove that we had our AIS on for the entire race. We can prove, and will confirm in a week's time, that we were compromised by live-streaming from the helicopter.

https://www.sail-world.com/news/213456/Wild-Oats-XIs-skipper-answers-critics-on-S2H-row

:rolleyes:

 

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4 minutes ago, lydia said:

Seriously ,ais falls into the same category as radar

if fitted you better have it on to satisfy your “lookout” obligations under the col regs as the obligation is to keep a lookout by all available means appropriate to the conditions

 

yes, you have it on in receive mode as part using all appropriate means to maintain a watch.

Do colregs specify that you must use all appropriate means to enable you to be seen by other boats like touches shined on your sails and cabin/deck lights on or does it just specify having the prescribed navigation lights on? 

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2 hours ago, lydia said:

Do WO XI and Comanche race to Hobart under different laws? 

If the answer is yes, then clearly, one boat has committed an offence under Australian law.

Rumpole says maybe even more than two.

Marine Order 27 in conjunction with the definition of Regulated Australian Vessel (RAV) under Section 15 of the Navigation Act 2012  and having the Australian General & International Shipping Register, Shipping Registration Act 1981 and South African Ship Registry on hand does provide for interesting reading about things AIS. 

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32 minutes ago, hoppy said:

yes, you have it on in receive mode as part using all appropriate means to maintain a watch.

Do colregs specify that you must use all appropriate means to enable you to be seen by other boats like touches shined on your sails and cabin/deck lights on or does it just specify having the prescribed navigation lights on? 

“A sailing vessel engaged in racing at night will display a lighted cigarette In the aft part of the vessel at intervals of not less than 5 minutes”

This little known rule is in the sealed section in the back

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3 hours ago, lydia said:

And this year one boat will need to be carrying a whole lot more equipment (weight)!

Dunno ...2 anchors Black Jack?

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15 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Is it just me, or is this worded arse-backwards?

I read the above to mean that failure to receive (by a station) shall not be evidence for a protest against the receiver.

"subject to protest" is referring to the receiving station.

Duncan to me it reads "The failure of any station to receive a signal from a boat’s AIS Transponder shall not be subject to  protest  or grounds for redress .." with emphasis on the words "any station" to also include say stations retransmitting for public access purposes such as On-Line AIS Trackers being used for competitor AIS protest purposes, not as you read making the AIS receiving station the boat subject to protest.

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39 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Dunno ...2 anchors Black Jack?

See there is another big boat rort

little boat required to carry as prescribed by the table in the prescription while big boat carry that prescribed by expert read designer

anyone know what anchor chain and cable a 100 footer carries 

betting not more than 75 kg

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The 50th in 94 got 371 line up and 300 odd finish.

Should get around one-third of that or one-third increase on today numbers you would hope.

 

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3 hours ago, lydia said:

anyone know what anchor chain and cable a 100 footer carries 

10m min chain plus 50m min chain or rope mandated by offshore regs plus alloy pick certified by the reed designer.

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18 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The 50th in 94 got 371 line up and 300 odd finish.

Should get around one-third of that or one-third increase on today numbers you would hope.

 

that turning mark though.. :lol:

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22 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

The 50th in 94 got 371 line up and 300 odd finish.

Should get around one-third of that or one-third increase on today numbers you would hope.

 

Great vid Jack - Thanks for posting it. Damn that was a line up of maxi mines that race.

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:

Great vid Jack - Thanks for posting it. Damn that was a line up of maxi mines that race.

It was great fun being on one too. On the drink catching up with many old faces that came from far and wide was even better.

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6 hours ago, bigrpowr said:

that turning mark though.. :lol:

I might be wrong but don't recall one protest that wasn't worked out on the water. Times have changed. Richo take note. 

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Almost onto a new page, come on guys, the horse isn’t quite dead yet. 

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15 minutes ago, mad said:

Almost onto a new page, come on guys, the horse isn’t quite dead yet. 

North Korean vessels exploiting tracking system flaws to evade sanctions: report

Quote

Following a UN report on North Korean vessels spoofing signals to hide their identity and conduct shipments in violation of sanctions, a new report published Wednesday sheds light on the methods used to trick the international tracking system.

https://www.nknews.org/2019/06/north-korean-vessels-exploiting-tracking-system-flaws-to-evade-sanctions-report/

:ph34r:

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Meanwhile over at the Sydney to Hobart 2019 thread there is big news........................................................

 

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10 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

image.jpg

That was pic was first posted about 5 months and 4000 posts ago. But then again this threat isn’t noted for all the new and original comments posted. 

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And another new page, well done all. 

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Too early to discuss the weather for later this year? 

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And another new page! I was going to bump this thread on Boxing Day morning but there will be no need. It will still be top of the page. No issue has divided the nation like this since we voted to let the poofters get married.

Sorry mad missed your post.

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On 6/27/2019 at 3:32 AM, LB 15 said:

Image result for mark richards  9 hobarts

That was pic was first posted about 5 months and 4000 posts ago. But then again this threat isn’t noted for all the new and original comments posted. 

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8 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:

That was pic was first posted about 5 months and 4000 posts ago. But then again this threat isn’t noted for all the new and original comments posted. 

You can say that again.

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13 minutes ago, 10thTonner said:
On 6/27/2019 at 2:32 AM, LB 15 said:

Image result for mark richards  9 hobarts

That was pic was first posted about 5 months and 4000 posts ago. But then again this threat isn’t noted for all the new and original comments posted

 

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5 hours ago, LB 15 said:

You can say that again.

Don’t you watch repeats on television 

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Meanwhile back at the Sydney to Hobart 2019 thread..................................................................!!!!!

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On 6/27/2019 at 8:52 AM, lydia said:

Here is a more important question.

Do WO XI and Comanche race to Hobart under different laws?

If the answer is yes, then clearly, one boat has committed an offence under Australian law......

 

On 6/27/2019 at 8:56 AM, lydia said:

There you go JS!

 

On 6/27/2019 at 12:28 PM, jack_sparrow said:

Rumpole says maybe even more than two.

Marine Order 27 in conjunction with the definition of Regulated Australian Vessel (RAV) under Section 15 of the Navigation Act 2012  and having the Australian General & International Shipping Register, Shipping Registration Act 1981 and South African Ship Registry on hand does provide for interesting reading about things AIS. 

Four days have gone by @lydia after Rumpole took a bite of your bait upon invitation, yet it seems you have now gone very silent? Do I presume you have now given up fishing amoungst legalaties of AIS rules to inform all of your point of view, something was amiss in the 2018 S2H and still exists today, re mandatory AIS TX? 

Don't worry, Rumpole is your friend.

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JS, been in transit.

But have a look at the different definitions of "regulated vessel" under each state law and the Commonwealth.

So you have an interstate voyage where:

a.the vessel is an Australian registered vessel;

b.there is a contract between third parties and the owner for services

c.consideration is paid at least in kind if not money

d.the owner claims deduction for expenses in the derivation of income

e.persons manning the vessel are paid and covered by workers compensation law (or at least should be)

So right now it is failing the purpose test!

That should keep you going for a bit JS

 

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Lydia don't forgot sponsorship income in money or kind. 

Richards has always claimed his "AIS is not mandatory" remark to ABC reporter dockside Friday morning referred to COLREGS boat size blah blah.

"When we were walking back from Black Jack to the hotel, a reporter came up and said "what do you think about the protest?"

"I said "what protest I don't what you are talking about. There was no protest."

"I was tired, we'd had a hard race, and I was blindsided by the question. We had no idea what they were talking about. That was when I made the comments about AIS not being mandatory under the Col Regs for ships at sea - which it isn't generally also for boats our size [or under 300 tonnes]. My comments were taken out of context, I was referring to the Col Regs, where it is clear that AIS is a voluntary navigational aid."

That ABC reporter actually contacted AMSA but with not an unexpected response.  See at 3.10 mark.

 

 

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Look at all the diesel soot coming out the back of Wild Oats.? Polluting the water wherever it goes. Diesel cars have DPF's fitted to stop this, why don't boats? Shame on all the other 100's for not being able to smell where Wild Oats was in the Hobart..! They turn off their AIS and blow a smoke cloud to hide their position. I for one would protest them just on dirtying the sailing game. :D

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Seems to me that AIS is mandatory on a regulated vessel on an interstate voyage.

Regulated vessel is no longer over 300 tonne or limited by size.

AIS may not be mandatory for Comanche however!

Just to keep the thread going another 170 days

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17 minutes ago, lydia said:

Seems to me that AIS is mandatory on a regulated vessel on an interstate voyage.

Regulated vessel is no longer over 300 tonne or limited by size.

AIS may not be mandatory for Comanche however!

Just to keep the thread going another 170 days

Love yer work!

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This thread needs music.

 

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c19734046a1f04835045c106c7bcc83e.jpg?itok=WPCe2CJo

Now you boys make sure you order your copy early.

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"As soon as we went around Bradley's Head the Channel 7 TV guys started live streaming from the helicopter. The instant they started streaming, we lost all our instrumentation. We lost our wifi, and a lot of instrumentation went down on the boat."

"The cameraman told us "sorry guys that is probably from the download".

"It is a very high microwave frequency and it can interfere with other equipment at times," Richards explains.

"Today, I totally believe that is what happened."

What download? ... the boat was transmitting.  What the fuck would they need to download?

man-scratching-his-head-and-looking-conf

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48 minutes ago, random said:

What download? ... the boat was transmitting.  What the fuck would they need to download?

Camera signal to overhead helicopter relay then to Channel 7 Tower at Artarmon. The "download" referred to is tower download or  re-transmission from helicopter to tower.

Maybe the helo operator was hung over and when aiming TX antenna got mixed up between WOXI's Windex and this tower around 6 mile away.

 

tower-2-artarmon (1).jpg

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2 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Camera signal to overhead helicopter relay then to Channel 7 Tower at Artarmon. The "download" referred to is tower download or  re-transmission from helicopter to tower.

Maybe the helo operator was hung over and when aiming TX antenna got mixed up between WOXI's Windex and this tower around 6 mile away.

 

Sound like bullshit. 

Nicco said ""The cameraman told us "sorry guys that is probably from the download".

I want to know what download.  Fair question don't you think?

There is no Download, they were transmitting.

 

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5 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Randumb does your IQ ever exceed room temperature?

Do you understand the difference between Receiving and Transmitting?

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Clearly if you read what is written. Hint where is WOXI's AIS RX/TX antenna located and what is helicopter overhead transmitting and where to and at what power?

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3 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Clearly if you read what is written. Hint where is WOXI's AIS RX/TX antenna located and what is helicopter overhead transmitting?

Not what Nicco said.  Can you read or are you the WOXI interpreter for "what I meant to say".

On an issue like this, failure of systems, it is important to be detailed.

I wonder how the chopper's instruments went?

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31 minutes ago, jack_sparrow said:

Clearly if you read what is written. Hint where is WOXI's AIS RX/TX antenna located and what is helicopter overhead transmitting and where to and at what power?

You are the dumb cunt Jack, unless you know "what is helicopter overhead transmitting and where to and at what power?"

Is there any evidence that nav instruments are affected by that? 

Hint, is there any regulations on the chopper not to interfere with navigation on Sydney Harbour?

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.........and well on the way to the next page. Well played Random and Jack.  Medals all round.

 

Image result for participation medals

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1 hour ago, random said:

You are the dumb cunt Jack, unless you know "what is helicopter overhead transmitting and where to and at what power?"

Is there any evidence that nav instruments are affected by that? 

Hint, is there any regulations on the chopper not to interfere with navigation on Sydney Harbour?

Fuck me Randumb how many times were you dropped at birth? 

Cameraman starts rolling and so via camera pack TX antenna sends a low power uplink to overhead helicopter. Helicopter RX antenna takes that uplink and then retransmits it via a TX antenna at higher  power to go long distances as a "downlink" or "download" to the TV station RX antenna.

It is the latter "down link" or "download" going to the station that cameraman was refering to and which he initiated and is claimed fried AIS splitter and tripped onboard electronics by presumably that downlink entering WOXI's system via AIS masthead RX/TX antenna.

The outside TV broadcast spectrum is regulated by national communication authority to not cause interference.

So how many instances of say motor vehicles suddenly having electronic after after TV broadcast van is operating accross the road? Fuck all. Will Channel 7 cease onboard broadcasts come 26 December? No. Story is a crock of shit.

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Anyone willing to guess how many pages this thread would be if we remove every post that repeats points made earlier in the thread?

one page?

 

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTGIzqRSFtyGvOFo_x81Qp 

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12 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Randumb does your IQ ever exceed room temperature?

This could explain his obsession with global warming.

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9 hours ago, hoppy said:

Anyone willing to guess how many pages this thread would be if we remove every post that repeats points made earlier in the thread?

one page?

You're wrong again, I've removed all your and LB's posts and I'm still on page 48 !!!

 

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2 hours ago, LB 15 said:
14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Randumb does your IQ ever exceed room temperature?

This could explain his obsession with global warming.

How did you keep him cool in that suit? 

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46 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

You're wrong again, I've removed all your and LB's posts and I'm still on page 48 !!!

 

Sure you have cupcake. 

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On 12/29/2018 at 9:05 AM, dash34 said:

Really need to listen to that MR interview.  If you don't know you aren't in compliance, and don't report it, what then?  It sounds like MR knew after the race that they weren't transmitting, but did he or his navigator know during the race?  You can't report what you don't know.  If the rest of the boats kept quiet about it hoping WOXI would get a penalty, aren't they just as culpable?  Did any of them report this issue to the RC while racing?  I would have thought that they would all at least try to contact WOXI on the radio to let them know about the problem - it is, after all, a potential safety issue.  If they didn't, why not?

Never mind what MR did or didn’t know during the race, MR knew well they hadn’t complied, for whatever reason, and also that they “fixed” the problem before the expiry of WOXI’s declaration time limit. All of this is on public record. So what did they put or amend in their declaration? The declaration requirements are perfectly clear.

CYCA RC knew all of this all along as well. What did they do under SI 21.4? Put in a blatantly bogus protest guaranteed to fail and implied that BlackJack should have protested.

There is no time limit for CYCA RC protests. They could put another one in any time in the future a (la Lance Armstrong and Tour de France) to clear the air........ All the evidence is on public record. Maybe they are waiting until WOXI gets line honours again, so that they can keep the overall record?

I also bet they change SI 27.7 this year......

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6 hours ago, Sidecar said:

also bet they change SI 27.7 this year......

Side why?? Providing RO/RC don't appoint a different style of IJ to 2018, there is little risk that it will grow a set of balls. :-)

27.7 There is no time limit for protests by the Race Committee or the International Jury. No other protests may be delivered after 1700 hours on 31 December 2018, (if a boat is still racing at that time they shall notify Hobart Race Control of their intent to protest) except when seeking redress. In that event, the time limit will be three hours after the protesting boat finishes.  The International Jury may not extend the time for delivery of a protest lodged under the provisions of this clause (Amends RRS 61.3).

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5 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Side why?? Providing RO/RC don't appoint a different style of IJ to 2018, there is little risk that it will grow a set of balls. :-)

27.7 There is no time limit for protests by the Race Committee or the International Jury. No other protests may be delivered after 1700 hours on 31 December 2018, (if a boat is still racing at that time they shall notify Hobart Race Control of their intent to protest) except when seeking redress. In that event, the time limit will be three hours after the protesting boat finishes.  The International Jury may not extend the time for delivery of a protest lodged under the provisions of this clause (Amends RRS 61.3).

that's really fucking stupid. What do two boats racing after 5pm on the 31st do if there's an incident between them after that time?

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No sense of history there

the first  aim used to be to finish and the second was to finish be  by New Year’s Eve let alone 1700 hrs

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Yes. In 1978, we were 50th over the line and the last boat in before midnight. There were still another 37 boats out on the course...

We hoisted and dropped out kite 5 times in the last 100 metres of the race, scrambling to finish in time.....

Won our division on corrected time though...... Good times.

The average boat is much bigger and faster today, compared to way back then.....

 

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20 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

 

We hoisted and dropped out kite 5 times in the last 100 metres of the race, 

 

Those 1978 snap shackles were cunts of things weren’t they.

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It was so calm and flat, we left the kite all connected on the deck, ready to go again.....

it took the best part of an hour to do the last 100 metres.

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32 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

The average boat is much bigger and faster today, compared to way back then.....

 

no arguments there.. but if a couple of smaller boats enter and its a slow race, finishing on the 1st is not complete fantasy (more of a horror show).

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Might be a few small boats this year though.

If we take the little boat we will not be there by midnight.

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