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Why dogs are banned from national parks

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Danger to our dogs

  • National parks frequently use poisonous ground baiting to target introduced species such as foxes. These baits are toxic and can sadly be fatal to our beloved canines.
  • National parks are full of shrubbery – the perfect environment for paralysis ticks, which are potentially fatal to dogs.
  • Without access to water and shade, dogs can develop heatstroke at the beach.
  • If the sand is particularly hot, your dog’s pads can burn and blister.
  • Wet rocks and moss are very slippery, and your dog can cut their pads on sharp rocks and/or oyster shells at the beach.
  • Excessive consumption of seawater can upset your dog’s stomach and cause dehydration or salt toxicity.

Danger to the environment

While recreation is often encouraged in national parks, it’s worth remembering that national parks exist primarily for the preservation of the natural environment. Therefore, any activities that negatively impact on the environment are banned. These are the main reasons why dogs aren’t allowed in national parks:

  • Even the most docile dogs are predatory animals and are therefore a threat to protected wildlife
  • Native animals are vulnerable to diseases that dogs may carry
  • Barking and scents left by dogs can scare wildlife and attract other predatory animals

 

When it comes to beaches, the main concern for the environment is dog owners that don’t pick up after their dog. Though this may only reflect a minority of people, it tends to be more common when dogs are let off the leash in areas like beaches. There is also the issue of our canines possibly crushing wildlife in rivers; although this is something humans need to watch out for too.

Another concern is the containment of dogs in crowded areas. Beaches are people-magnets, and – believe it or not – not all people like or feel safe around dogs.

 

https://www.petbarn.com.au/petspot/dog/exercise-and-stimulation/why-arent-dogs-allowed-at-national-parks-and-on-beaches

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So dogs are banned from natl parks where they can run and play in the outdoors, yet Great Danes are welcomed in the main cabin of small airliners as “comfort pets” for every neurotic hipster who wants to fly with them. 

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Cali state parks do not allow dogs off leash or on any trails even on leash. National parks are park by park restrictions some allow, some not. I understand the reasons, esp when I see the behavior of idiot owners around town. I enjoy hiking with mine (she even has her own backpack to carry her stuff) but we are careful to leave nothing but footprints. Unfortunately, we are all impacted by the lowest common denominator obnoxious clueless dog owners. 

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6 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So dogs are banned from natl parks where they can run and play in the outdoors, yet Great Danes are welcomed in the main cabin of small airliners as “comfort pets” for every neurotic hipster who wants to fly with them. 

fok hell Jeff , just when I want to green you , rare occurrence , I run outa ammo ................................

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2 minutes ago, Point Break said:

Cali state parks do not allow dogs off leash or on any trails even on leash. National parks are park by park restrictions some allow, some not. I understand the reasons, esp when I see the behavior of idiot owners around town. I enjoy hiking with mine (she even has her own backpack to carry her stuff) but we are careful to leave nothing but footprints. Unfortunately, we are all impacted by the lowest common denominator obnoxious clueless dog owners. 

Agree about lowest common denominator.  It’s a shame.....  my GSD would go ballistic excited if he knew were were going on a hike up in the Mts outside of Vegas. Seemed no issue there to let them off leash and fortunately most of the other Dog owners on the trail were pretty good and had well behaved dogs. 

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1 hour ago, Shootist Jeff said:

So dogs are banned from natl parks where they kill the wildlife, yet Great Danes are welcomed in the main cabin of small airliners where they can eat small children and over large passengers

win/win 

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Kiwi just has a total ban on dogs in national parks. Got caught with mine deep in fiordland once. Was middle of winter so only stupid fucker around. Rangers explained they have the right to shoot your dog on the spot if they feel like it. 

Their main problem is pig dogs that get left behind and little pooch killing Kiwis. The bird, not us manly folk. 

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1 minute ago, VOA said:

Why are cats allowed anywhere?

FIFY

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You can bring dogs into national forests in the US. I've seen plenty there and as long as the owners clean up very few problems.

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On 1/2/2019 at 9:19 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

So dogs are banned from natl parks where they can run and play in the outdoors, yet Great Danes are welcomed in the main cabin of small airliners as “comfort pets” for every neurotic hipster who wants to fly with them. 

Yeah.

We all need to know the difference between a service animal (like that Great Dane in the main cabin that is supposed to help the owner destress during take-off) and Guide/Hearing animals.

The latter are no-bullshit, highly-trained animals that are genuinely working, genuinely protecting their owners and doing work where they should not interact with the public.

But service animals ... ffs, more often than not they are trained by their owners to help with a myriad of symptoms from PTSD to claustrophobia to anxiety. They have about as much training as any well-trained suburban dog. It's ridiculous to pretend that they animals are guide/hearing animals. They aren't. They are "service" animals that have as much efficacy in service to the people around them as they do to their owner. And if the owners insist on bringing them into the public space without a clearly-defined deafness or blindness (not kinda hard of hearing, or kinda bad eyesight) then the public should interact with that dog as much as they like. Especially since that interaction won't screw up their service function, since their service function is ambiguous, ill-defined and largely untrained anyway.

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22 hours ago, VOA said:

Why are cats allowed anywhere?

Cats provide a valuable function, in that people who hate cats do so as a means to give everyone around them a quick identity to their own self-hating homosexuality.

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On 1/2/2019 at 9:22 PM, Point Break said:

Cali state parks do not allow dogs off leash or on any trails even on leash. National parks are park by park restrictions some allow, some not. I understand the reasons, esp when I see the behavior of idiot owners around town. I enjoy hiking with mine (she even has her own backpack to carry her stuff) but we are careful to leave nothing but footprints. Unfortunately, we are all impacted by the lowest common denominator obnoxious clueless dog owners. 

On the trails near my house, the flanks are littered with shit in plastic bags. Owners pick up their dog's shit in the little plastic bags, then say "Eww, I have to carry that with me for the rest of the hike?" They then leave them on the side of the trail with every intention to pick up the bag on the way back, and then completely forget about them five minutes later.

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Here, it's not so much about the shit as the killing of our wildlife. We have no natural predators on the ground.(except snakes) our wildlife are often slow moving on the ground..lyrebirds, koalas,small marsupials and reptiles.  Anyone who has a dog off lead in a national park here is an idiot.

yeah yeah..on lead..trouble is there's to many morons that let them off as soon as they think there's no one looking. Plenty of places you can excersise your dog including dog friendly beaches.

 

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

Cats provide a valuable function, in that people who hate cats do so as a means to give everyone around them a quick identity to their own self-hating homosexuality.

What a tosser you must be at times. Cats on my property get to go meet their maker, just like they have done to countless birds here.

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On 1/3/2019 at 8:34 AM, VOA said:

Why are cats allowed anywhere?

I’ve wondered that for years, they can run around under no control, kill birds, shit wherever they like and generally wind the shit out of my dogs at will! Let your dog do half that and see what happens. Only place for a cat is on a farm. 

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2 hours ago, mikewof said:

Cats provide a valuable function, in that people who hate cats do so as a means to give everyone around them a quick identity to their own self-hating homosexuality.

How the fuck did you make that connection?

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nerf-super-soaker_5.jpg.a80bd516f31124c764b6ed3ff47f0ea6.jpg

One of these with bright red, blue, green food dye seemed to get the message across to the cat owners. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

How the fuck did you make that connection?

Lessee ... people who hate an entire species for having the audacity to exist and walk the planet with four feet and a tail ...

You have to even ask?

But let me guess ... You hate cats, right?

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2 hours ago, mad said:

I’ve wondered that for years, they can run around under no control, kill birds, shit wherever they like and generally wind the shit out of my dogs at will! Let your dog do half that and see what happens. Only place for a cat is on a farm. 

Dunno about other states, but here in victoria you have to keep your cat confined to your property..they are tagged and licenced just like dogs..with microchips.

Dunno how people do this unless, like me they have 18' walls..or cats too old to climb the fence but it's getting rare to see a cat outside on the streets in the burbs..in more rural area's they are supposed to be confined in an enclosed yard, Council workers can and do catch em and fine the owners.

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2 hours ago, mad said:

I’ve wondered that for years, they can run around under no control, kill birds, shit wherever they like and generally wind the shit out of my dogs at will! Let your dog do half that and see what happens. Only place for a cat is on a farm. 

My 14 year old dog can catch and kill a cat probably as easy as it does kill the wild rabbits in the neighborhood. Cats tend to stay away from animals that can kill them, and I know this because my own neighborhood also has coyotes, foxes and lions, all of which have been known to kill housecats too. I see cats on my block, they keep a low profile.

So if a cat "winds the shit" out of your dogs, maybe you have a breed of dog that is incompatible with your area? Or maybe your dogs are poorly trained? Or maybe you and your neighbors killed off all the predators of housecats? Either way, it seems that housecats are not your core problem.

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2 hours ago, Gissie said:

What a tosser you must be at times. Cats on my property get to go meet their maker, just like they have done to countless birds here.

So you have the ability to kill cats at will, you have killed cats at will, and yet, for some inexplicable reason, you still hate cats, regardless that you have absolute control over their destiny ...

Yeah, no issues there, huh?

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4 minutes ago, mikewof said:

My 14 year old dog can catch and kill a cat probably as easy as it does kill the wild rabbits in the neighborhood. Cats tend to stay away from animals that can kill them, and I know this because my own neighborhood also has coyotes, foxes and lions, all of which have been known to kill housecats too. I see cats on my block, they keep a low profile.

So if a cat "winds the shit" out of your dogs, maybe you have a breed of dog that is incompatible with your area? Or maybe your dogs are poorly trained? Or maybe you and your neighbors killed off all the predators of housecats? Either way, it seems that housecats are not your core problem.

you train your dog to kill cats? Boo sometimes lets Jerry eat out of her bowl...while she's eating :D

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4 hours ago, VOA said:

You’re weird. Estimates say there’s 2.5-3 million domestic cats in Australia and 20 million ferals. The ferals cause a lot of harm to native wildlife. 

That you resort to homophobic slurs reflects on you, nobody else. 

In my area, "feral" horses and burros have been deemed by tens of thousands of ranchers to "cause a lot of harm" to native species. And it took an Act of Congress (literally, the Wild Horse Act) to get ranchers to stop shooting wild horses just for the hell of it.

I have no problem with homosexuals, hell, I may be even be homosexual for all you know, you drunken old fool. But hating cats for the crime of existing? That suggests someone who hates some part of themselves, in my opinion.

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17 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

you train your dog to kill cats? Boo sometimes lets Jerry eat out of her bowl...while she's eating :D

You're assuming.

My dog does fine with cats, she sniffs them on the nose. But coonhounds can kill cats, because they can kill wild raccoons, groundhogs and rabbits.

When I first got our dog from the shelter, I knew she was the right dog when she gave a little "kiss" the shelter cat as it jumped up on a chair, when we left the building.

Anyone who hates cats has some genuine repression issues, in my opinion. If a guy wants to suck dick, he should just suck dick, and be at peace with the world and stop blaming his condition of denial on the cats.

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34 minutes ago, mikewof said:

My 14 year old dog can catch and kill a cat probably as easy as it does kill the wild rabbits in the neighborhood. Cats tend to stay away from animals that can kill them, and I know this because my own neighborhood also has coyotes, foxes and lions, all of which have been known to kill housecats too. I see cats on my block, they keep a low profile.

So if a cat "winds the shit" out of your dogs, maybe you have a breed of dog that is incompatible with your area? Or maybe your dogs are poorly trained? Or maybe you and your neighbors killed off all the predators of housecats? Either way, it seems that housecats are not your core problem.

sorry I was reading this as "if a cat can wind up your dog, maybe your dog is not tough enough to live with cats around..or..your dog is poorly trained? :D

most sane/intellegent dogs don't kill cats..chase em? yes..back off when cat swipes at eyes..usually.

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8 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

sorry I was reading this as "if a cat can wind up your dog, maybe your dog is not tough enough to live with cats around..or..your dog is poorly trained? :D

Yeah, maybe his dogs are poorly trained.

A well-trained dog will bark at genuine threats, like someone coming into the yard or the house, or a lion or a wolf or a rattlesnake or an alligator. 

A poorly-trained dog will bark at anything that moves, like chipmunks, rabbits and cats.

When my dog sees a rabbit, it doesn't bark, it just gets really quiet, then tries to slowly close the distance between herself and the other animal, before she takes off like a bat out of hell to run it down.

Of course, my dog doesn't bark at rattlesnakes, but it does bark at people on the path behind the yard. Therefore, my dog isn't perfectly trained. And that's cool, but I should probably not decide to start hating any human who uses the trail behind my house, because that's my problem at not training my dog right, not the person's problem for deciding to walk on the trail behind our house.

And just for the record, my dog isn't brave enough to bark at lions or ilk with a full rack on their heads.

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The point was dogs in national parks..yep they like to stalk or chase and kill small defenceless animals..which is why they are..and should be banned.

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4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

The point was dogs in national parks..yep they like to stalk or chase and kill small defenceless animals..which is why they are..and should be banned.

I'm with JBSF on this ... If we can allow dogs on planes, then we should allow them in public spaces. And if your dog is so poorly trained that it kills wild animals in the open space, then the owner should be fined for being a dipshit and for letting a poorly trained animal off the leash.

A properly trained dog will look up at their owner for permission to go after a wild animal outside of their own domain.

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16 minutes ago, mikewof said:

I'm with JBSF on this ... If we can allow dogs on planes, then we should allow them in public spaces. And if your dog is so poorly trained that it kills wild animals in the open space, then the owner should be fined for being a dipshit and letting a poorly trained animal off the leash.

Ahem..have you ever let your dog off leash in a genuine wild forest?

We all like to think our dogs are 100% obedient...until they choose not to hear you because there's this really strange and unusual scent they have to follow..It's like owners that say their dog NEVER bites and lets them play with the kiddies .:rolleyes:

There's plenty of places for Mid to let his dog off leash

https://parkweb.vic.gov.au/visit/popular-activities/dog-walking

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One by one.....

Danger to our dogs

  • National parks frequently use poisonous ground baiting to target introduced species such as foxes. These baits are toxic and can sadly be fatal to our beloved canines.
    • ***** Really? Since when is it OK for our government to be killing animals without proper notice to the public? If this happens, they should post it clearly and stick a big sign over the poison - foxes can't read. Is there a report issued on how many target animals and accidentally poisoned non-target animals are killed each year? 
  • National parks are full of shrubbery – the perfect environment for paralysis ticks, which are potentially fatal to dogs.
    • That's a matter for the dog and the owner, not the government
  • Without access to water and shade, dogs can develop heatstroke at the beach.
    • That's a matter for the dog and the owner, not the government
  • If the sand is particularly hot, your dog’s pads can burn and blister.
    • That's a matter for the dog and the owner, not the government
  • Wet rocks and moss are very slippery, and your dog can cut their pads on sharp rocks and/or oyster shells at the beach.
    • That's a matter for the dog and the owner, not the government. Also true for kids - but we don't ban kids from the beach
  • Excessive consumption of seawater can upset your dog’s stomach and cause dehydration or salt toxicity.
    • That's a matter for the dog and the owner, not the government

Summary - one real problem, but probably a lie and likely fixable vs. 5 fabricated nanny-state crap answers

Danger to the environment

  • Even the most docile dogs are predatory animals and are therefore a threat to protected wildlife
    • True(ish), but when was the last time that your dog actually caught anything that it chased? What protected species, sitting close to a trail that humans use, would be vulnerable to a dog? Bald eagle? Lesser-spotted-obscure-newt? Some-forgotten-frog? Name one, and post "no dogs" in those, specific places and times - like snowy plover nesting season in places where there actually is a snowy plover. If they are protected, then they are rare. If they are rare, then when is a dog going to meet one?
  • Native animals are vulnerable to diseases that dogs may carry
    • Maybe. Name the diseases, force owners to carry an immunization card or get a ticket 
  • Barking and scents left by dogs can scare wildlife and attract other predatory animals
    • What is the definitive proof that in a 1000 square mile park, with dogs walking with people on or within 100m of a path, the endangered animals can't just wander off if they don't like barking

This is clearly a situation of government over-reach punishing everyone for the bad actions of a few people, then justifying the over-reach with unproven bureaucratic bullshit. The responsible approach is to ticket the few and tolerate the rest.

 

 

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A domestic dog was brought onto Isle Royale National Park in the middle of Lake Superior and left off-leash.  Dog was carrying the parvovirus.  Result was a huge environmental problem.

An island with 50+ wolves was decimated to only 2 - one male and one female.  As the wolf population declined the breeding was between siblings.  The last pair are also father - daughter and half siblings, having shared the same mother.   So the breeding stock was severely inbred.   

This allowed the moose population to increase without any natural predators.  The favorite food of the moose is the balsam fir and the predominate tree on the island.  So now it is a race to see which wins, the slow growing fir or the unchecked population of moose. 

Finally, it took years for the NPS to make up its mind to allow additional wolves to be brought to the island.  The plan is to introduce 20 or so over the next 5 years. 

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Ahem..have you ever let your dog off leash in a genuine wild forest?

We all like to think our dogs are 100% obedient...until they choose not to hear you because there's this really strange and unusual scent they have to follow..It's like owners that say their dog NEVER bites and lets them play with the kiddies .:rolleyes:

There's plenty of places for Mid to let his dog off leash

https://parkweb.vic.gov.au/visit/popular-activities/dog-walking

We have different kinds of forests in my area ...

BLM forests -- Off leash if I have good sight and can keep her safe from a lion or a moose. There usually are no restrictions, and the people who use BLM land are usually a little bit more "red-necky" like I am, and they don't piss sand granules at the sight of a dog.

National Forests/Parks (i.e. the point of this thread) -- I never let her off leash, I usually wouldn't even take her to a National Forest or National Park, because the rules are strict for a reason, that land and wildlife needs to be protected.

County Open Space -- I usually keep her leashed in respect to the other users, unless she's in a dog-friendly area (we a few thousand acres of that in our county). If I'm in an open area where I can see a few hundred feet, and there are no other people, I let her run around. But we have lions in our neighborhood, and dogs/coyotes seem to be their favorite game. Shit in plastic bags reigns supreme in Country Open Spaces. Assholes pick up their dog shit in those bags, tie it in a knot and then leave it on the side of the trail, where it will sit for months or years until someone picks it up. Assholes.

The leash is more to protect my dog from wildlife, not so much to protect wildlife from my dog. I'm not worried about her killing a rabbit now and then. She can't kill prairie dogs because they're too smart, and she is nonthreatening to things like frogs, birds, lizards, snakes and anything that doesn't have fur and a tail. When I track big game for fun, she is always off-leash because she stays next to me, and the leash is a nuisance, it tends to get wrapped around the brush. I already wrote that my dog is not perfectly trained, she's not 100% obedient, I'm good with that. She's a good dog, that's sufficient. 

Edited by mikewof

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3 hours ago, VOA said:

I was quite specific in what I posted mikewof. Your little rant does not address anything that I wrote. I did not write that I hated cats. I did write that your use of homophobic slurs is a reflection on you, nobody else. I did not write anything that implies you have a problem with homos. 

I didn't write a homophobic slur. You made that up, you lied again. Grumpy lying, nothing new.

I wrote that people who hate cats are probably in denial of something (like perhaps their desire to suck a dick) because there is something psychologically wrong with hating your neighbor's pets. Homosexuality is healthy. Denying one's homosexuality is probably the domain of someone who hates cats.

It's nearly 2020, if you want to suck a dick, then suck a dick. No need to pollute the world with emotional dysfunction.

 

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

Lessee ... people who hate an entire species for having the audacity to exist and walk the planet with four feet and a tail ...

You have to even ask?

But let me guess ... You hate cats, right?

Again, your presumptions of others are wrong... it’s a rather bad habit to have. I I have absolutely no issues with cats, I had 2 as pets whilst growing up on farms who would fondly lay out there donations to the family food table every morning on the doorstep. The odd mouse, bird and occasionally a young rabbit etc. 

My issue is that there are a set of fairly regimented rules for dog owners and absolutely none for cat owners. I like to have the birds around and unfortunately this doesn’t happen because of the mass of cats running amok. As I have no wish to kill them, I find the problem easily solved with a decent water pistol. 

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55 minutes ago, Morgan Crewed said:

A domestic dog was brought onto Isle Royale National Park in the middle of Lake Superior and left off-leash.  Dog was carrying the parvovirus.  Result was a huge environmental problem.

An island with 50+ wolves was decimated to only 2 - one male and one female.  As the wolf population declined the breeding was between siblings.  The last pair are also father - daughter and half siblings, having shared the same mother.   So the breeding stock was severely inbred.   

This allowed the moose population to increase without any natural predators.  The favorite food of the moose is the balsam fir and the predominate tree on the island.  So now it is a race to see which wins, the slow growing fir or the unchecked population of moose. 

Finally, it took years for the NPS to make up its mind to allow additional wolves to be brought to the island.  The plan is to introduce 20 or so over the next 5 years. 

This is a legitimate example of the well founded concerns. I had a lengthy debate with a NP Forest Ranger (who happens to be one of our sons) and came away with a better understanding of the actual threat. Most parks are not staffed sufficiently to police the idiots so we are left with a lowest common denominator total ban (at state parks and some federal land) that is aimed at conservation. I understand it...........I just don't like it.

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3 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

The point was dogs in national parks..yep they like to stalk or chase and kill small defenceless animals..which is why they are..and should be banned.

Then ban them in Australia, it's your country, do whatever you want.

But in the USA we have a somewhat different set of problems. In some parks/forests, dogs are a threat, in others they are ZERO THREAT because of the type of animals there, or use density. If people can't bring their dogs, they often won't go, and the issue is to keep the National Parks used so that they aren't eventually converted to some other form of profit generation like natural gas development.

Blanket bans are silly.

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10 minutes ago, mad said:

Again, your presumptions of others are wrong... it’s a rather bad habit to have. I I have absolutely no issues with cats, I had 2 as pets whilst growing up on farms who would fondly lay out there donations to the family food table every morning on the doorstep. The odd mouse, bird and occasionally a young rabbit etc. 

My issue is that there are a set of fairly regimented rules for dog owners and absolutely none for cat owners. I like to have the birds around and unfortunately this doesn’t happen because of the mass of cats running amok. As I have no wish to kill them, I find the problem easily solved with a decent water pistol. 

You'll have to excuse me for actually reading the words that you actually wrote ... 

"Only place for a cat is on a farm."

The rules for dogs are there because dogs have the ability to kill people. They aren't livestock, they're property, they don't connect to an industry the way livestock does. Cat's don't have the same rules as dogs because they tend not to attack people.

If you have too many cats running around your neighborhood, it's probably because your people chased away all the animals that hunt and eat pet cats.

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

My 14 year old dog can catch and kill a cat probably as easy as it does kill the wild rabbits in the neighborhood. Cats tend to stay away from animals that can kill them, and I know this because my own neighborhood also has coyotes, foxes and lions, all of which have been known to kill housecats too. I see cats on my block, they keep a low profile.

So if a cat "winds the shit" out of your dogs, maybe you have a breed of dog that is incompatible with your area? Or maybe your dogs are poorly trained? Or maybe you and your neighbors killed off all the predators of housecats? Either way, it seems that housecats are not your core problem.

Cat on top of a 10 foot fence is challenge for most dogs. These are so called house cats as opposed to feral in the field, again your suppositions cloud your answers, the number of so called house cats running around in urban areas out weigh dogs by a ratio of at least 3 to 1. Dog owners, in general abide by the rules of keeping them under control, this includes picking up feaces in public areas, keeping them away from people/kids that feel threatened by them and not letting them kill other pets.

Exactly what natural predators can get to a cat in that position? There are a distinct lack of mountain lions, coyotes etc in the UK. And god forbid that one of my dog kills a fox!! There’s going to be an anti hunt group outside in 48 hrs or less  

Please feel free to address this issue as you normally do, fully blinkered. 

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10 hours ago, VOA said:

You’re weird. Estimates say there’s 2.5-3 million domestic cats in Australia and 20 million ferals. The ferals cause a lot of harm to native wildlife. 

That you resort to homophobic slurs reflects on you, nobody else. 

I’m still trying to make the cat to homophobia connection as well. 

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

You're assuming.

My dog does fine with cats, she sniffs them on the nose. But coonhounds can kill cats, because they can kill wild raccoons, groundhogs and rabbits.

When I first got our dog from the shelter, I knew she was the right dog when she gave a little "kiss" the shelter cat as it jumped up on a chair, when we left the building.

Anyone who hates cats has some genuine repression issues, in my opinion. If a guy wants to suck dick, he should just suck dick, and be at peace with the world and stop blaming his condition of denial on the cats.

Probably best we leave you to suck dicks, there’s nothing to be gained from this discussion. 

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On 1/2/2019 at 8:19 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

So dogs are banned from natl parks where they can run and play in the outdoors, yet Great Danes are welcomed in the main cabin of small airliners as “comfort pets” for every neurotic hipster who wants to fly with them. 

Not any more. airlines in the US are starting to ban non trained and non LICENSED Service Animals.

 

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

So you have the ability to kill cats at will, you have killed cats at will, and yet, for some inexplicable reason, you still hate cats, regardless that you have absolute control over their destiny ...

Yeah, no issues there, huh?

The old jump to the conclusions you want argument. Don’t hate cats, have had plenty over the years. Even smuggled a couple between countries at one point. 

As for killing them. You seem proud of the fact that you live in an area where big cats and coyotes keep the cat population under control for you. Here we have no natural predators apart from us humans. So I am just stepping up and doing the job you happily let other animals do on your behalf. 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Cat on top of a 10 foot fence is challenge for most dogs. These are so called house cats as opposed to feral in the field, again your suppositions cloud your answers, the number of so called house cats running around in urban areas out weigh dogs by a ratio of at least 3 to 1. Dog owners, in general abide by the rules of keeping them under control, this includes picking up feaces in public areas, keeping them away from people/kids that feel threatened by them and not letting them kill other pets.

Exactly what natural predators can get to a cat in that position? There are a distinct lack of mountain lions, coyotes etc in the UK. And god forbid that one of my dog kills a fox!! There’s going to be an anti hunt group outside in 48 hrs or less  

Please feel free to address this issue as you normally do, fully blinkered. 

Train your dogs to stop barking at cats?

Redneck Dog Training 101, not really Her Majesty's Rocket Surgery, huh?

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1 hour ago, Gissie said:

The old jump to the conclusions you want argument. Don’t hate cats, have had plenty over the years. Even smuggled a couple between countries at one point. 

As for killing them. You seem proud of the fact that you live in an area where big cats and coyotes keep the cat population under control for you. Here we have no natural predators apart from us humans. So I am just stepping up and doing the job you happily let other animals do on your behalf. 

The coyotes, foxes and lions don't keep the cat population under control here, because practically none of my neighbors let their house cats out, it would be a death sentence for their cats if they did. The wildlife here keep house cats in the house.

Now, you write that you "don't hate cats" but you also wrote that "Cats on my property get to go meet their maker." So you kill cats on your property, but you don't actually hate them?

 

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2 hours ago, mad said:

Probably best we leave you to suck dicks, there’s nothing to be gained from this discussion. 

I like cats. My dog likes cats. You might want to go bark up a different dick tree.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

The coyotes, foxes and lions don't keep the cat population under control here, because practically none of my neighbors let their house cats out, it would be a death sentence for their cats if they did. The wildlife here keep house cats in the house.

Now, you write that you "don't hate cats" but you also wrote that "Cats on my property get to go meet their maker." So you kill cats on your property, but you don't actually hate them?

 

So they do keep the cats under control by making anyone that cares about their little moggie inside. Stops all sorts of feline shenanigans going on outside. Not sure you would call these foxes, lions and coyotes cat haters. 

I do the same sort of behaviour. Keep your cats inside or they may not come home. I have even been polite and warned those around me that little bird killer may not return if allowed to follow its basic instinct. 

As for hating them. No, I would prefer people kept their little fluffy at home. I would prefer people didn’t abandon cats to go feral and breed. What I do like is the number of defenceless birds and their chicks that get killed by cats, rats, weasels, stoats and possums. So much like your predators I am happy to make them feel hunted rather than just being the hunted. 

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3 hours ago, VOA said:

He’s weird. I put it down to some form of paranoia and desperation to prove himself some kind of hero  

Enough about mikewof though, this thread isn’t about him. 

And none of them are about you, or contributed to by you. how sad for you.

Waffles may sometimes..well ..waffle...but he's more valuable to this forum than a sad sock who's only contributions are nasty snipes.

Go away Grumpy.

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14 hours ago, mikewof said:

Lessee ... people who hate an entire species for having the audacity to exist and walk the planet with four feet and a tail ...

You have to even ask?

But let me guess ... You hate cats, right?

I quite like cats, in point of fact, and my GF has 2 of them who also like me (well, they fake it as all cats do).

The cats I dislike and shoot on sight are those that are ON MY PROPERTY.

If you keep your cat home and make sure it stays there, no problem. If it crosses my boundary, it's a target and I'll kill it if I possibly can.

I prefer my small marsupials and birds to some fuckwit  irresponsible & dysfunctional cat owner's pet moggy.

FKT

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2 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I quite like cats, in point of fact, and my GF has 2 of them who also like me (well, they fake it as all cats do).

The cats I dislike and shoot on sight are those that are ON MY PROPERTY.

If you keep your cat home and make sure it stays there, no problem. If it crosses my boundary, it's a target and I'll kill it if I possibly can.

I prefer my small marsupials and birds to some fuckwit  irresponsible & dysfunctional cat owner's pet moggy.

FKT

and this also applies dogs i assume?

I think there's a misunderstanding in this thread between Antipodeans and USAsians. 

Different wildlife, different predators, different vulnerabilities and different attitudes to native species.

All our native wildlife is protected to one degree or another(AFAIK), snakes, possums, crocs ...prolly even spiders :D

wandering Cats and dogs are pretty much unprotected. shoot/trap fluffy in rural areas and few people will be up in arms about it.

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

Now, you write that you "don't hate cats" but you also wrote that "Cats on my property get to go meet their maker." So you kill cats on your property, but you don't actually hate them?

 

Speaking solely for myself, yes.

But then I was originally a population ecologist and I've killed an awful lot of things that IMO needed killing, without any emotional attachment at all.

I've shot thousands of kangaroos and probably in excess of 20,000 rabbits, to name 2 species.

Shooting cats on my property is purely pest control. I don't discriminate either, I'd shoot a dog just as fast. It's the absolute responsibility of the pet owner to keep their pet confined to their property. One of the neighbours is on notice that if their dog comes onto my place and chases 'my' native hens again, I'm going to shoot it. They have zero legal recourse.

FKT

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On 1/3/2019 at 5:03 PM, VOA said:

Don’t forget Mid is talking about Australia. Turn your back for a minute and there’s more legislation to protect you from yourself. 

This really belongs in the wusses thread. 

This one?

28 minutes ago, VOA said:

WTF? Please see my first post in this thread and mikewof’s response. 

Now kindly fuck off. 

As I was saying..contribute nothing but snipes

:rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Speaking solely for myself, yes.

But then I was originally a population ecologist and I've killed an awful lot of things that IMO needed killing, without any emotional attachment at all.

I've shot thousands of kangaroos and probably in excess of 20,000 rabbits, to name 2 species.

Shooting cats on my property is purely pest control. I don't discriminate either, I'd shoot a dog just as fast. It's the absolute responsibility of the pet owner to keep their pet confined to their property. One of the neighbours is on notice that if their dog comes onto my place and chases 'my' native hens again, I'm going to shoot it. They have zero legal recourse.

FKT

and quite correct...WTF is a population ecologist?..licenced shooter?  :D

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

and this also applies dogs i assume?

Without hesitation.

There was a case some years back where someone wrote in to the local throwaway paper complaining that their neighbour had shot their dog and the police wouldn't do anything about it. More sobbing to the effect that they'd moved to the country for the peace and the space and how unfriendly & cruel the neighbour was.

Next edition was a reply from the neighbour informing the readership that the owners had been given 3 warnings about their dog roaming, that it was chasing sheep and that it'd be shot if they didn't restrain it. They didn't, and it was. The shooter had full legal rights to do so which is why the cops weren't interested.

Some people should stay in suburbia.

FKT

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Just now, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Without hesitation.

There was a case some years back where someone wrote in to the local throwaway paper complaining that their neighbour had shot their dog and the police wouldn't do anything about it. More sobbing to the effect that they'd moved to the country for the peace and the space and how unfriendly & cruel the neighbour was.

Next edition was a reply from the neighbour informing the readership that the owners had been given 3 warnings about their dog roaming, that it was chasing sheep and that it'd be shot if they didn't restrain it. They didn't, and it was. The shooter had full legal rights to do so which is why the cops weren't interested.

Some people should stay in suburbia.

FKT

PLT (people like that) are no different in the city..move to where it's hip..then complain about the noise from the pub, not being able to park their cars and homeless people in the park..some people are simply arseholes :D

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

and quite correct...WTF is a population ecologist?..licenced shooter?  :D

One of my University degrees is in population ecology (look it up) and had a job in that field until I decided computing was less work and a lot more money.

Got friends and relatives with a lot of farm land. I spent a hell of a lot of time on vacations etc on their properties shooting things, driving tractors, digging post holes and similar rural type activities. We used to shoot every feral animal we saw as a matter of principle. My kids got some of that growing up - youngest daughter says she's the only one in her social group who can drive a manual shift vehicle, let alone one without a synchro gearbox. She doesn't mention that she can also generally hit what she aims at with either long gun or hand gun, mainly due to her grandfather's teaching. It upsets her snowflake generation......

FKT

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14 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Speaking solely for myself, yes.

But then I was originally a population ecologist and I've killed an awful lot of things that IMO needed killing, without any emotional attachment at all.

I've shot thousands of kangaroos and probably in excess of 20,000 rabbits, to name 2 species.

Shooting cats on my property is purely pest control. I don't discriminate either, I'd shoot a dog just as fast. It's the absolute responsibility of the pet owner to keep their pet confined to their property. One of the neighbours is on notice that if their dog comes onto my place and chases 'my' native hens again, I'm going to shoot it. They have zero legal recourse.

FKT

Shooting cats and dogs just seems wrong to me.

But I don't claim any moral high ground, because I kill an ocean of snapper, salmon, tuna, anchovies, sardines, herring, and countless turkey and chickens. 

I guess if you feel the need to shoot cats and dogs then you just have to do what you have to do, but I sure hope that I'm never your neighbor, I'm attached to my dog.

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14 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

 Some people should stay in suburbia.

FKT

Suburbia is where it's at, man ...

Hey suburbia, we're in love with you!

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14 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

 

 

15 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I quite like cats, in point of fact, and my GF has 2 of them who also like me (well, they fake it as all cats do).

The cats I dislike and shoot on sight are those that are ON MY PROPERTY.

If you keep your cat home and make sure it stays there, no problem. If it crosses my boundary, it's a target and I'll kill it if I possibly can.

I prefer my small marsupials and birds to some fuckwit  irresponsible & dysfunctional cat owner's pet moggy.

FKT

Aside from the population ecologist thing, why are you so protective about "YOUR PROPERTY"?

Is any of this property even really our's anyway? The second we stop paying rent tax on it, the government takes ot from us. We get good dogs or maybe a burro or a llama to protect our livestock and then call it a day right?

You essentially stole your land from a native tribe, I stole my land from a native tribe, and they in turn stole it from some tribes before them. Does it really matter if some mangy cat comes onto OUR PROPERTY looking to kill a field mouse for lunch? 

In the blink of an eye, they're going to lower guys like you and I into a hole in the ground and those cats and dogs will piss on our graves. What's the point of getting territorial with a bunch of animals?

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19 hours ago, VOA said:

He’s weird. I put it down to some form of paranoia and desperation to prove himself some kind of hero  

Enough about mikewof though, this thread isn’t about him. 

Nah, none of that, it's just so violently bizarre to want to kill cats and dogs that it might suggest some kind of underlying emotional weaknesses ... for instance denying one's own sexuality. 

When most of us see a cat or a dog we might not notice, or we might be glad that they're there to keep the mice and rabbits under control. But some people in this thread see a cat or a dog and think "blimey, I'm knackered, where's me blunderbuss?" (Sorry, that's the best imitation of a POM that I can muster at the moment.)

 

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On 1/4/2019 at 11:21 AM, mikewof said:

Yeah.

We all need to know the difference between a service animal (like that Great Dane in the main cabin that is supposed to help the owner destress during take-off) and Guide/Hearing animals.

The latter are no-bullshit, highly-trained animals that are genuinely working, genuinely protecting their owners and doing work where they should not interact with the public.

But service animals ... ffs, more often than not they are trained by their owners to help with a myriad of symptoms from PTSD to claustrophobia to anxiety. They have about as much training as any well-trained suburban dog. It's ridiculous to pretend that they animals are guide/hearing animals. They aren't. They are "service" animals that have as much efficacy in service to the people around them as they do to their owner. And if the owners insist on bringing them into the public space without a clearly-defined deafness or blindness (not kinda hard of hearing, or kinda bad eyesight) then the public should interact with that dog as much as they like. Especially since that interaction won't screw up their service function, since their service function is ambiguous, ill-defined and largely untrained anyway.

You're in the wrong thread mike.  This isn't about petting service dogs.

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On 1/2/2019 at 9:58 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

Agree about lowest common denominator.  It’s a shame.....  my GSD would go ballistic excited if he knew were were going on a hike up in the Mts outside of Vegas. Seemed no issue there to let them off leash and fortunately most of the other Dog owners on the trail were pretty good and had well behaved dogs. 

Only a small percentage of Outdoors is park land. Mountains too. 

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

Shooting cats and dogs just seems wrong to me.

But I don't claim any moral high ground, because I kill an ocean of snapper, salmon, tuna, anchovies, sardines, herring, and countless turkey and chickens. 

I guess if you feel the need to shoot cats and dogs then you just have to do what you have to do, but I sure hope that I'm never your neighbor, I'm attached to my dog.

If you acted like a good neighbour and kept your animals from leaving your land, you'd have no problems and be at no risk of having them shot.

If you decided that your animal's 'freedom to roam and hunt' was a higher priority than my desire to conserve the native wildlife, you'd need a new animal.

Pretty simple, no?

I live in a State isolated by Bass Strait from the mainland which has been even more severely fucked over by feral animals - we don't have foxes, thank God. This place has more small marsupials left because of that. Feral cats and domestic ones allowed to roam freely play havoc with the small marsupials and birds.

I put a higher value on those native animals than I do the desire of human pet owners to act irresponsibly and not confine their animals to their own property.

I can't put it much more simply than that.

If you have a problem with my attitude, tough shit. Don't live anywhere near me.

I might add that 3 of my neighbours have exactly the same attitude, including the Aboriginal Land Council, so you can shove that implied sneer right up your arse too. They're death on feral cats & dogs and have banned people riding horses from their land as well due to the weed pollution issues.

Yes, one day I'll be dead. But I'll die with the knowledge that I did my best to leave those native animals for future generations to enjoy & conserve, unlike selfish fuckwits like you, who'd be happy to leave a desert.

FKT

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

 

Aside from the population ecologist thing, why are you so protective about "YOUR PROPERTY"?

Is any of this property even really our's anyway? The second we stop paying rent tax on it, the government takes ot from us. We get good dogs or maybe a burro or a llama to protect our livestock and then call it a day right?

You essentially stole your land from a native tribe, I stole my lanIn the blink of an eye, they're going to lower guys like you and I into a hole in the ground and those cats and dogs will piss on our graves. What's the point of getting territorial with a bunch of animals?d from a native tribe, and they in turn stole it from some tribes before them. Does it really matter if some mangy cat comes onto OUR PROPERTY looking to kill a field mouse for lunch? 

Someone bought Mike a rather fine malt for christmas..enjoy :)

 

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Hard to argue the outdoor and feral cat issue. A famous (or infamous depending on your personal bias) Smithsonian study estimates that the 60-100 million “outdoor” cats kill between 2 to 4 billion birds a year in the continental US and are major contributors if not the specific cause of the extinction of 33 avian species. That does not even address the impact on other small mammals/reptiles etc. Even those who may disagree with the exact numbers are generally willing to acknowledge there is a significant impact. The impact of a indoor or mostly indoor “city cat” is estimated to be much less, but given their prolific birth rates and skillful hunting ability outdoor/feral cats are a legitimate ecosystem problem - the value of a barn cat mouser notwithstanding. 

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Australia has its own feral cat problem. Only one of a number of invasive species wreaking havoc on indigenous animal/reptile populations.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_Australia

Quote

Feral cats are one of the major invasive species in Australia and have been linked to the decline and extinction of various native animals. They have been shown to cause a significant impact on ground nesting birds and small native mammals.[4] Feral cats have also hampered any attempts to re-introduce threatened species back into areas where they have become extinct as the cats have simply hunted and killed the newly released animals.[5]Numerous Australian environmentalists claim the feral cat has been an ecological disaster in Australia, inhabiting most ecosystems except dense rainforest, and being implicated in the extinction of several marsupial and placental mammal species.[6][7]

 

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yes..hence FWT's comments about shooting on sight.

We do have measures re sterilisation of domestic dogs and cats here. A lot of local councils make desexing of cats compulsory unless you have a breeders licence..dunno how effective it is in rural areas.

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22 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

yes..hence FWT's comments about shooting on sight.

We do have measures re sterilisation of domestic dogs and cats here. A lot of local councils make desexing of cats compulsory unless you have a breeders licence..dunno how effective it is in rural areas.

Apparently not so much yet.......

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

yes..hence FWT's comments about shooting on sight.

We do have measures re sterilisation of domestic dogs and cats here. A lot of local councils make desexing of cats compulsory unless you have a breeders licence..dunno how effective it is in rural areas.

It'll never be effective - the breeding population in the wild is too great.

There was the start of a plan to release a virus to wipe out cats which I thought a truly great idea. Problem is, nobody can guarantee it won't cross species barriers. Given the failures with other attempts at biological control, this one had better stay a proposal not a release.

We finally exterminated cats off of Macquarie Island some years back and that was a non-trivial job on a relatively small place with no chance of reintroduction. Pretty sure NZ has managed the same on a few of their islands too.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Mark K said:

Dingos eat them, don't they?   

Mouse reproductive rate is too high - once a plague gets going it's lack of food that brings it to a halt.

I was working on a cattle feedlot outside Dalby Qld during a mouse plague. Not something you want to be involved with - the little bastards eat wiring insulation, destroying systems and cars and a lot die inside wall cavities. The smell is pretty atrocious.

Pretty interesting seeing the road ripple in front of you and that *before* you get back to the motel for dinner & drinks.

FKT

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5 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

It'll never be effective - the breeding population in the wild is too great.

There was the start of a plan to release a virus to wipe out cats which I thought a truly great idea. Problem is, nobody can guarantee it won't cross species barriers. Given the failures with other attempts at biological control, this one had better stay a proposal not a release.

We finally exterminated cats off of Macquarie Island some years back and that was a non-trivial job on a relatively small place with no chance of reintroduction. Pretty sure NZ has managed the same on a few of their islands too.

FKT

Put a bounty on em and keep Mo busy.

NZ makes knitwear out of possum fur..dunno that Cat skin hats would sell too well in Tassie :D

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12 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

If you acted like a good neighbour and kept your animals from leaving your land, you'd have no problems and be at no risk of having them shot.

If you decided that your animal's 'freedom to roam and hunt' was a higher priority than my desire to conserve the native wildlife, you'd need a new animal.

Pretty simple, no?

I live in a State isolated by Bass Strait from the mainland which has been even more severely fucked over by feral animals - we don't have foxes, thank God. This place has more small marsupials left because of that. Feral cats and domestic ones allowed to roam freely play havoc with the small marsupials and birds.

I put a higher value on those native animals than I do the desire of human pet owners to act irresponsibly and not confine their animals to their own property.

I can't put it much more simply than that.

If you have a problem with my attitude, tough shit. Don't live anywhere near me.

I might add that 3 of my neighbours have exactly the same attitude, including the Aboriginal Land Council, so you can shove that implied sneer right up your arse too. They're death on feral cats & dogs and have banned people riding horses from their land as well due to the weed pollution issues.

Yes, one day I'll be dead. But I'll die with the knowledge that I did my best to leave those native animals for future generations to enjoy & conserve, unlike selfish fuckwits like you, who'd be happy to leave a desert.

FKT

What's amusing is that you've made the same mistake that fuckwits before you have made and continue to make. You have blamed the stress on your native species on the introduced animals, rather than the dipshits who introduced them.

Your island continent has major species stress because the humans on your island continent made monumentally bad decisions.

But if you get off on shooting cats and dogs, go for it. But if you ever stop to think about your life for a moment, you'll probably realize that the impact from your own lifestyle is probably more damaging to your native species than the cats and dogs that you love to shoot. And the cat-killer statistic is apparently contaminated with horse shit anyway ... https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast

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12 hours ago, VOA said:

And you're too drunk and stupid to accept knowledge that contradicts your preconceived notions ...

http://theconversation.com/australias-war-on-feral-cats-shaky-science-missing-ethics-47444

You're truly too stupid to participate in conversations like this. You need to stick to discussing the size of rocks that you prefer to throw at bottles on a fence.

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57 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 

What's amusing is that you've made the same mistake that fuckwits before you have made and continue to make. You have blamed the stress on your native species on the introduced animals, rather than the dipshits who introduced them.

Your island continent has major species stress because the humans on your island continent made monumentally bad decisions.

But if you get off on shooting cats and dogs, go for it. But if you ever stop to think about your life for a moment, you'll probably realize that the impact from your own lifestyle is probably more damaging to your native species than the cats and dogs that you love to shoot. And the cat-killer statistic is apparently contaminated with horse shit anyway ... https://www.npr.org/sections/13.7/2013/02/03/170851048/do-we-really-know-that-cats-kill-by-the-billions-not-so-fast

What a pathetic argument. So rather than deal with the problem caused by mistakes in the past we should blame those ignorant fuckers that made the mistake. Way to go brainiac. Our disappearing birds will support you search for the dickheads that brought the pests in. 

Of course you are not allowed to blame indigenous people that started the rats, dogs and pigs. They were allowed to as part of their culture. 

As for us causing more damage than the pests. Not anymore big boy. You could remove every hi man from kiwi tomorrow and you would be consigning most of the endemic species to extinction rather quickly.

Not that that would concern you more than fighting a losing position because you find it difficult to admit you may be wrong. That perhaps parts of the world are a bit different to your part. Naughty lions, bears and coyotes. Your well trained cat chasing dog that gives them a kiss.  

Then you finish it all up with a link from a report from over 5 years ago dealing with a country that none involved in this, but you, come from. You are normally better than this, but this we know better than you outlying country bumpkins attitude is why may consider seppos a bunch of condescending lowlifes. 

Still at least you can sleep well tonight in the form knowledge that you know everything. Unlike the rest of us who can sleep well knowing you know fuck all. 

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5 hours ago, Gissie said:

What a pathetic argument. So rather than deal with the problem caused by mistakes in the past we should blame those ignorant fuckers that made the mistake. Way to go brainiac. Our disappearing birds will support you search for the dickheads that brought the pests in. 

Of course you are not allowed to blame indigenous people that started the rats, dogs and pigs. They were allowed to as part of their culture. 

As for us causing more damage than the pests. Not anymore big boy. You could remove every hi man from kiwi tomorrow and you would be consigning most of the endemic species to extinction rather quickly.

Not that that would concern you more than fighting a losing position because you find it difficult to admit you may be wrong. That perhaps parts of the world are a bit different to your part. Naughty lions, bears and coyotes. Your well trained cat chasing dog that gives them a kiss.  

Then you finish it all up with a link from a report from over 5 years ago dealing with a country that none involved in this, but you, come from. You are normally better than this, but this we know better than you outlying country bumpkins attitude is why may consider seppos a bunch of condescending lowlifes. 

Still at least you can sleep well tonight in the form knowledge that you know everything. Unlike the rest of us who can sleep well knowing you know fuck all. 

I can't argue this with you.

You seem to take pleasure in shooting cats and dogs. That emotion is so far from anything I have known that I can't really discuss rationally, and I apologize for that.

If your desire is to protect the birds, why do you only shoot cats and dogs on your land? Why not just build a better fence to protect the birds on your land and then take your gun on a road show and kill as many cats and dogs as you can track down out in the bush, where they're doing the real damage?

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6 hours ago, VOA said:

So a British singer supports your POV. He can stay in Britain, you can stay in Colorado  

My country mikewof. Not yours. 

Your country? You mean Indonesia?

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9 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Mouse reproductive rate is too high - once a plague gets going it's lack of food that brings it to a halt.

I was working on a cattle feedlot outside Dalby Qld during a mouse plague. Not something you want to be involved with - the little bastards eat wiring insulation, destroying systems and cars and a lot die inside wall cavities. The smell is pretty atrocious.

Pretty interesting seeing the road ripple in front of you and that *before* you get back to the motel for dinner & drinks.

FKT

Yeah, we always called it mouse infestation, and the cause was usually traced to half-assed grain storage, but it sounds similar.

This thread has a lot in common to the wild pig thread last year. The same stories keep repeating themselves and we look at the effect rather than cause.

We have a rabbit infestation near us that didn't exist a few years ago. A neighbor moved to Colorado from Illinois and immediately went to the HOA meetings imploring pest control for the prairie dogs in the open space behind his house, he claimed they were going to destroy his landscaping. Nobody agreed with him, prairie dogs don't come into yards, they need those 360 degree sight views to protect against fox and coyotes.

Then last year, my son and I went looking to break up some of the coyote dens because they started coming into the yards. My go-to is a shovel to disturb the ground and then I spray a lot of bleach in the den, they seem to hate that and move away. But I got to that open space behind his house and that prairie dog colony was empty, just the holes. He apparently pink-misted them or poisoned the rest, but they were all gone. And those old prairie dog warrens breed thousands of rabbits, which the coyotes eat, but nowhere near as fast as they breed. And the territory competition with the prairie dogs was gone.

That neighbor moved away and left the rabbit infestation.

Shit just becomes untenable when the natural balance gets too far fucked up. A few odd sportsmen take pleasure in pink misting prairie dogs, probably because they're easy targets who sit on that little mound when they do their lookout for the yotes. (Rabbits are a lot more difficult target.)

Then they convince themselves that pink mist is a favor they are bestowing on everyone around them, and they convince themselves that they have nothing to do with the rabbit infestations.

There are so many invasive species in both the Western USA, and few plans to reintroduce predators because the ranchers don't like predators. They block proposals as a matter of policy. But the reality is that you can kill all the coyotes, you can kill all the prairie dogs, and it might even be possible to poison most of the rabbits in an area. But you'll never kill all the mice, and when the competition is gone, they'll expand into that hole.

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7 hours ago, VOA said:

So a British singer supports your POV. He can stay in Britain, you can stay in Colorado  

My country mikewof. Not yours. 

Morrissey is a fucking idiot. 

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

I can't argue this with you.

You seem to take pleasure in shooting cats and dogs. That emotion is so far from anything I have known that I can't really discuss rationally, and I apologize for that.

If your desire is to protect the birds, why do you only shoot cats and dogs on your land? Why not just build a better fence to protect the birds on your land and then take your gun on a road show and kill as many cats and dogs as you can track down out in the bush, where they're doing the real damage?

jesus mike, give it a rest . You've really lost the plot on this one. seriously.

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44 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

jesus mike, give it a rest . You've really lost the plot on this one. seriously.

You're confused. And you're ignorant.

You seem to think that the need to eliminate feral animals should equate to emotionally disturbed individuals who enjoy shooting any cat or dog that happens to walk past their Most Holy Fence Line.

Any psychotic boob who enjoys killing animals sufficiently enough to brag about it in an internet forum is possibly in need of medication.

I've had to kill animals unfortunately, so have a lot of people in SA. We don't brag about it, we try to forget about it.

The reality that you don't seem to understand that killing animals should NEVER be a source of pride, suggests that you aren't in fact the worldly intellect you try to pass yourself, but rather just another bumpkin saving your pennies for yet another bauble.

There is also a big difference between shooting a feral cat and your neighbor's pet that might be the one thread of sanity that a lonely person has against a cruel world. Respecting that collar is called "loving your neighbor."

Fuck off, Meli.

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