Greyhound37

38' Brenta donated available for lease/purchase

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I follow AMI Kids.org web site for donated boats. They do not get many sailboats and almost zero sport boats. This Brenta just popped up. Interesting design and although not a race boat certainly a spirited day boat. Photo they used is probably an ad pic.

No affiliation with the boat but did lease/buy from AMI in the past. 

2006 38' Brenta in the NE USA I believe. Bruce Tait YS

 

 

38 Brenta.jpg

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Here, jam your knee up against the steering pedestal so you don't fall down while pretending it is comfortable and honey, make sure your skirt doesn't blow up while sliding off the cockpit seats. But make it look like its a great time.

Still a nice donation!!!!

 

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15 minutes ago, GTim said:

Here, jam your knee up against the steering pedestal so you don't fall down while pretending it is comfortable and honey, make sure your skirt doesn't blow up while sliding off the cockpit seats. But make it look like its a great time.

Still a nice donation!!!!

 

The footchucks might make her somewhat comfortable.. but the knee jam looks really crappy.. nicely spotted!

And why's the throttle in forward?

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3 minutes ago, JxD said:

The footchucks might make her somewhat comfortable.. but the knee jam looks really crappy.. nicely spotted!

And why's the throttle in forward?

Folding or feathering prop locked in gear to prevent it from spinning?

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I think PHRF is in the 40's so she is no slouch. Keel and rudder configuration look aggressive. 

Donations are typically deeply discounted. Add to that the terms with zero interest and it could be an opportunity for anyone considering such a spirited day sailor.

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The retirement boats gonna look like a 28’er version. 10 years.

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that website has some seriously nice boats...'well discounted' is probably still way beyond my price... oh well. 

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doesn't look like the most comfortable perch to steer from. woulda thought they might have added an upholstered fold down seat...

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Saw one at Dodson's a few years ago. it definitely looked good. never saw it in the water though.

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6 hours ago, Greyhound37 said:

I follow AMI Kids.org web site for donated boats. They do not get many sailboats and almost zero sport boats. This Brenta just popped up. Interesting design and although not a race boat certainly a spirited day boat. Photo they used is probably an ad pic.

No affiliation with the boat but did lease/buy from AMI in the past. 

2006 38' Brenta in the NE USA I believe. Bruce Tait YS

Cool - I'm curious how the lease works, never really seen that with a boat.  Looks like they have leased some substantial vessels in the past, including MAYA which was here in SD and I always admired:

image.thumb.png.93ef5b719e284fc686a9177d5982f3be.png

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4 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Cool - I'm curious how the lease works, never really seen that with a boat.  Looks like they have leased some substantial vessels in the past, including MAYA which was here in SD and I always admired:

I believe they can't sell the boat for 3 years or the donator gets a tax deduction in the amount of the sale price.  Presumably the donators take much larger tax deductions under this scheme

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5 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Folding or feathering prop locked in gear to prevent it from spinning?

That's almost always put in reverse.  

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11 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

I believe they can't sell the boat for 3 years or the donator gets a tax deduction in the amount of the sale price.  Presumably the donators take much larger tax deductions under this scheme

That can't be right - if I'm understanding you I could donate my Laser to them (extreme/silly example), say it's worth $1M, then write off $1M when it fails to sell.  Or am I missing something?

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Just now, socalrider said:

That can't be right - if I'm understanding you I could donate my Laser to them (extreme/silly example), say it's worth $1M, then write off $1M when it fails to sell.  Or am I missing something?

I think it's more like have your Brenta appraised for $1mm.  Donate it.  Charity holds/leases for 3+ years.  Charity sells for $250k.  You deduct $1mm because that's what boat was worth when you donated it and it's not your fault it lost 75% of value in 3 years.

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38 minutes ago, eastern motors said:

I think it's more like have your Brenta appraised for $1mm.  Donate it.  Charity holds/leases for 3+ years.  Charity sells for $250k.  You deduct $1mm because that's what boat was worth when you donated it and it's not your fault it lost 75% of value in 3 years.

Let us know how that valuation and deduction holds up under audit.

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7 minutes ago, sunseeker said:

Let us know how that valuation and deduction holds up under audit.

Yeah. IRS = guilty until proven innocent and I have heard they do not take kindly to pleasure boat related tax benefits. 

Also, how is the lease meant to figure in here?  A lease would establish a value I suppose. 

Beautiful boat. 

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1 hour ago, eastern motors said:

I think it's more like have your Brenta appraised for $1mm.  Donate it.  Charity holds/leases for 3+ years.  Charity sells for $250k.  You deduct $1mm because that's what boat was worth when you donated it and it's not your fault it lost 75% of value in 3 years.

Having just gone through this, eastern motors is correct.  We had a certified surveyor gives us a valuation.  The 501c3 uses the boat for three years and we get that valuation deducted from our taxes- this year's taxes.  The risk is that if the non profit sells the boat in  less than than three years, we only get the value of the sales price.  And that means we'd get the pleasure of writing the IRS a big check (which we already to anyway; we really need to find the Trump Exemption that's apparently buried in the tax code).

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9 minutes ago, Hawaiidart said:

Having just gone through this, eastern motors is correct.  We had a certified surveyor gives us a valuation.  The 501c3 uses the boat for three years and we get that valuation deducted from our taxes- this year's taxes.  The risk is that if the non profit sells the boat in  less than than three years, we only get the value of the sales price.  And that means we'd get the pleasure of writing the IRS a big check (which we already to anyway; we really need to find the Trump Exemption that's apparently buried in the tax code).

New that Brenta is not $1 million, so good luck with the audit.

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4 hours ago, Hawaiidart said:

Having just gone through this, eastern motors is correct.  We had a certified surveyor gives us a valuation.  The 501c3 uses the boat for three years and we get that valuation deducted from our taxes- this year's taxes.  The risk is that if the non profit sells the boat in  less than than three years, we only get the value of the sales price.  And that means we'd get the pleasure of writing the IRS a big check (which we already to anyway; we really need to find the Trump Exemption that's apparently buried in the tax code).

Thanks - so how does the lease play into it?  Does the non-profit then offer to lease the boat at a capitalized cost equal to the appraised value for three years at some nominal interest rate with a residual value high enough to make it a good lease deal (better than buying at the appraised value)?  Then they could sell it for whatever they wanted after 3 years with no recourse to the donator.  Seems like there are lots of ways this could be gamed.  

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If you took your wife's diamond ring to a jeweler and requested a retail value (what the market would pay) and an insurance appraisal the two values would be miles apart.

So the donor has a surveyor appraise the boat using every angle to support a very high value but stating that this value would be valid if you found the perfect match (consumer) sometimes even using interesting previous owners as a value enhancement. When donating race boats the container full of race sails are appraised separately in many cases. So your $200K boat gets an appraisal of $560,000. The appraisal is requested and paid for by the donor. Foundation has no dog in that fight.

Now the boat owner can donate can several foundations who have active yacht donation programs: St Mary's, USNA, Mass Maritime, NSSTF (sea turtles) …

The foundation will have a pre purchase survey done to determine where they will spend capital improvement money required by the tax code. Spending $30,000. on your beat up race boat helps blur the line between actual cash value and the appraisal.

After the survey the foundation prepares the deed of gift. Donor already has his IRS appraisal form from the surveyor.

Boat is signed over to the foundation.

Foundation will likely spend some money dressing her up and correcting essential survey recommendations.

Buyer comes in and wants to buy the boat, offers $175,000. 

Foundation accepts the offer, buyer leases for 36 months interest free. Boat stays in the foundations name with a lease agreement.

Leasee pays $57,750. down in cash, $1,650. a month for 35 months then the balance of $59,500. to exercise the option to purchase. Documentation is transferred to the new owner. Done deal.

 

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Comfy looking cockpit sofas, but no splash rail to keep water on deck from soaking them?  Daysailer indeed!  Certainly not meant for offshore sailing.

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15 hours ago, eastern motors said:

I think it's more like have your Brenta appraised for $1mm.  Donate it.  Charity holds/leases for 3+ years.  Charity sells for $250k.  You deduct $1mm because that's what boat was worth when you donated it and it's not your fault it lost 75% of value in 3 years. 

If a donated boat changes ownership from the foundation within 36 months an IRS form reporting the sale price must be filed which would trigger the reduction in charitable contribution by the donor.

The holding for 36 months and ultimate sale do not need to be reported to the IRS.  This process bends the rules to the max no doubt but have passed the sniff test hundreds of times. Walter Cronkite donated all his boats to AMI. Merv Griffen donated  a $4M motor yacht.  

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21 hours ago, GTim said:

... and honey, make sure your skirt doesn't blow up while sliding off the cockpit seats. But make it look like its a great time.

The one in the dress looks like a dude.

NTTAWWT....

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If your looking for a comfortable day sailor with push button trimming then this is for you.   I have arced against this boat for a few summers now.  Cool looking but can’t get out of its own way.   I don’t think it can beat a week sailed J109 around the course to give you an idea of it’s real speed. There are two in Vineyard haven and Scheggia is raced often and the gray hull one was only sailed In VH

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1 hour ago, Great Red Shark said:

Do you do a lot of arc-ing ?

weakly

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4 hours ago, sledracr said:

The one in the dress looks like a dude.

NTTAWWT....

East coast chicks are different from SoCal/Newport Beach chicks.

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9 hours ago, billy backstay said:

Comfy looking cockpit sofas, but no splash rail to keep water on deck from soaking them?  Daysailer indeed!  Certainly not meant for offshore sailing.

I noticed that a lot of the photos show water on the decks, even the aft deck, in flat water.

Looks as wet as an Etchells

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On 1/4/2019 at 9:38 PM, Hawaiidart said:

Having just gone through this, eastern motors is correct.  We had a certified surveyor gives us a valuation.  The 501c3 uses the boat for three years and we get that valuation deducted from our taxes- this year's taxes.  The risk is that if the non profit sells the boat in  less than than three years, we only get the value of the sales price.  And that means we'd get the pleasure of writing the IRS a big check (which we already to anyway; we really need to find the Trump Exemption that's apparently buried in the tax code).

That's exactly correct.  My brother bought a boat last year from a large charitable organization. 3 year lease, essentially a interest free loan with a contract that unless he defaults the boat is his at the end. The donor gets a hefty deduction.  It appraised by his surveyor quite a bit higher than what he paid but slightly lower than the organizations. It's documented in his name but he does not hold title (that took some doing). He paid a lot less BUT it was a 44' twin Cummings diesel motorboat with genset and a ton of systems. Big gamble. We got the engines running before he put his bid in, it was in the water. After a full season he is still sorting it but it was a bargain. Bigger balls than me, a turbo for one of the motors woulda killed my cruising funds.

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3 hours ago, DrewR said:

That's exactly correct.  My brother bought a boat last year from a large charitable organization. 3 year lease, essentially a interest free loan with a contract that unless he defaults the boat is his at the end. The donor gets a hefty deduction.  It appraised by his surveyor quite a bit higher than what he paid but slightly lower than the organizations. It's documented in his name but he does not hold title (that took some doing). He paid a lot less BUT it was a 44' twin Cummings diesel motorboat with genset and a ton of systems. Big gamble. We got the engines running before he put his bid in, it was in the water. After a full season he is still sorting it but it was a bargain. Bigger balls than me, a turbo for one of the motors woulda killed my cruising funds.

Cummins parts are 20% the cost of Volvo. Good choice.

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All this falls under the same rules that apply to donating cars. You get what the non profit gets for it unless they put it to substantial use.  Then you can deduct a documented market value. For cars, it’s pretty simple. If you donate it to one of the multiple organisations that wholesale it or scrap it immediately, you get that value as a tax deduction for what cash they receive. If they put it into use by providing it to a deserving single mom, disabled vet or whatever, or they put it into service as one of their vehicles, you get market value. Closed the loophole of deducting full KBB retail for a junker towed away for salvage. 

For boats,  the leasing for 3 years satisfies the substantive use requirement, after which the sale value is immaterial as far as the tax code is concerned. An immediate resale would not meet substantive use. The donor only needs to be able to defend the value claimed at the time that it was donated. An accredited survey is the accepted method for a boat. 

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On ‎1‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 2:29 PM, JxD said:

The footchucks might make her somewhat comfortable.. but the knee jam looks really crappy.. nicely spotted!

And why's the throttle in forward?

I think the end of the throttle is up the guys butt, keeping him from sliding down.

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On 1/5/2019 at 1:44 PM, crashtestdummy said:

If your looking for a comfortable day sailor with push button trimming then this is for you.   I have arced against this boat for a few summers now.  Cool looking but can’t get out of its own way.   I don’t think it can beat a week sailed J109 around the course to give you an idea of it’s real speed. There are two in Vineyard haven and Scheggia is raced often and the gray hull one was only sailed In VH

The one on the cover is not either of the two on Martha's Vineyard.  This one was based on Eastern Long Island where she regularly races against J/109's.  We altered the traveler car on the jib so we can in-haul her.  She is generally faster than a J/109 upwind but is slower downwind due to her small foretriangle and lack of sprit.  Of the three races we did this summer we had 2 firsts and one 4th beating well sailed J/109's.  The boat also has a square top mainsail (one of the advantages of not having a backstay).

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