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Ricky Craven

Musto?!

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Derek Zoolander in Capris gracefully holding the roller-furling line on the bow of some 50-ton 1970s battle wagon. 

I guess this is the kind of ad you can expect now that Musto is owned by a Canadian company better known as a purveyor of hockey nets and C$100 barbecues to rural Albertans? 

Amazed Seahorse would give this a two-page spread. Good stuff. 

Musto Zoolander.jpg

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32 minutes ago, Ricky Craven said:

 

Amazed Seahorse would give this a two-page spread.

 

 

It's an easy thing to figure out. Canadian Tire gives Seahorse a ton of money, Seahorse prints ad to fund its magazine. Readers rejoice. 

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I sent them an e-mail as they seemed to have stopped making mid and base layers as none are available on their web site any more.  No reply I tried to buy some over the holidays but everything was sold out. Hope this isn't the death of a great brand...

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24 minutes ago, fan said:

I sent them an e-mail as they seemed to have stopped making mid and base layers as none are available on their web site any more.  No reply I tried to buy some over the holidays but everything was sold out. Hope this isn't the death of a great brand...

Probably are just in the process of rebranding Helly base layers with Musto. Give them a bit of time.

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BITD Musto and Henri Lloyd were the top of the line in high quality foul weather gear.  HL has fallen on hard times recently.  Now it seems Musto has also.  Is this a reflection of a lower demand for top quality gear, more competition (Gill, Zhik,  etc.), both, or something else completely?

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11 minutes ago, J28 said:

BITD Musto and Henri Lloyd were the top of the line in high quality foul weather gear.  HL has fallen on hard times recently.  Now it seems Musto has also.  Is this a reflection of a lower demand for top quality gear, more competition (Gill, Zhik,  etc.), both, or something else completely?

with musto it's been a lot of horsing around with trying to move their production to china, get into west marine, then gave up on both and moved production back to Poland. Then it got bought by HH. Not sure how much the competition is hurting them, it's only Musto and HL that are selling GoreTex, i think.... and if you're gonna spend several hundred dollars on gear I have trouble justifying not buying goretex (consequently, I don't own a goretex top layer because i won't spend several hundred.... just a few hundred). In other words, I wouldn't buy top of the line Gill because it's not goretex, if i did feel like spending money for top tier stuff. 

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Henri Lloyd has its own reorganization issues since it’s bankruptcy.  Their USA online sales website based in Georgia now says it is “Under Construction.”  Just a month ago they were having a 50% off sale on nearly everything.  Hope you got your gear back then.    

https://www.henrilloyd.com/blog/henri-lloyd-gears-up-for-premium-relaunch   

You can now expect prices to be 25% to 30% higher and with fewer approved HL retailers. 

“Sailing-inspired fashion brand Henri Lloyd is planning an upmarket relaunch under its new Swedish owners, Drapers can reveal. 

Established in Manchester in 1963, Henri Lloyd was bought in a pre-pack administration [bankruptcy] by Aligro UK, a subsidiary of Swedish firm Aligro Group, in June. [2018] 

Shortly afterwards, the former chief executive of Swedish sports fashion distributor Sportmanship, Magnus Liljeblad, was appointed CEO of Henri Lloyd, which is now headquartered in Gothenburg. 

Liljeblad is now moving the brand upmarket and imposing a renewed focus on quality and its sailing heritage. Although wholesale prices are yet to be finalised, they will rise by between 25% and 30% compared with its previous collections.” 

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HH seems to be shit recently too.

Several years back I bought some of their gear,  and it seemed to be top notch and I actually still wear it regularly.

Lately all I see from them is the crew jacket and really cheap duffels at cheap outlet malls.

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1 hour ago, Morgan Crewed said:

Henri Lloyd has its own reorganization issues since it’s bankruptcy.  Their USA online sales website based in Georgia now says it is “Under Construction.”  Just a month ago they were having a 50% off sale on nearly everything.  Hope you got your gear back then.    

https://www.henrilloyd.com/blog/henri-lloyd-gears-up-for-premium-relaunch   

You can now expect prices to be 25% to 30% higher and with fewer approved HL retailers. 

“Sailing-inspired fashion brand Henri Lloyd is planning an upmarket relaunch under its new Swedish owners, Drapers can reveal. 

Established in Manchester in 1963, Henri Lloyd was bought in a pre-pack administration [bankruptcy] by Aligro UK, a subsidiary of Swedish firm Aligro Group, in June. [2018] 

Shortly afterwards, the former chief executive of Swedish sports fashion distributor Sportmanship, Magnus Liljeblad, was appointed CEO of Henri Lloyd, which is now headquartered in Gothenburg. 

Liljeblad is now moving the brand upmarket and imposing a renewed focus on quality and its sailing heritage. Although wholesale prices are yet to be finalised, they will rise by between 25% and 30% compared with its previous collections.” 

I assume you man premium prices for HL gear since HH seems to have gone down market significantly recently. On the other hand the HL gear I have purchased the past few years does not come close in quality to the gear from more than 5 years ago.

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I'm in a bit of a pickle, I'm in need of new gear. I'll pay for gore-tex having spent enough time wet and cold. What to buy??

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I have some Musto MOX that seems to be ok.if  it’s still Gore-Tex I would try it.

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if money was no object, I'd look into Mustang.  They have 3 and 4 layer membrane waterproofing for some of their kit.

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21 hours ago, Godzilla said:

HH seems to be shit recently too.... Lately all I see from them is the crew jacket and really cheap duffels at cheap outlet malls.

With super-tacky labeling plastered all over everything, too.

Is it really necessary to have large "HH" branding on the outside right collar, right bicep and left rear shoulder, as well as "Helly Hansen" emblazoned on the left sleeve cuff, right inside collar, and rear outside collar? :wacko:

helly_hansen_crew_jacket_navy.jpg

 

 

Helly-Hansen-Mens-Crew-Midlayer-Rain-and

 

If we must serve as a walking advertisement for their products, they can pay us for that privilege.

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I like my Musto, but I like hockey nets too, so it is all good.

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On 1/10/2019 at 6:53 PM, bloodshot said:

if money was no object, I'd look into Mustang.  They have 3 and 4 layer membrane waterproofing for some of their kit.

Their EP line?  I saw a “coastal” type jacket from that line on the Team One Newport website.  

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1 hour ago, J28 said:

Their EP line?  I saw a “coastal” type jacket from that line on the Team One Newport website.  

The EP looks amazing, but I'd  probably be fine with the Meris.

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22 hours ago, 10thTonner said:

I bought an MPX salopette last year. It's Gore-Tex. I just love it.

 

Holy shit!!  Just googled that and prices were $433 to $650!!!   I just hit the annual Defender Sale in March and get my gear on the cheap and often.  Name brand decent stuff for my mostly "fair weather" racing.  Henry Lloyd for 29 bucks.  And when I wore a hole in my $90 padded shorts, I took them to a canvas shop and had a new vinyl seat sewn on for $40.

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5 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

Holy shit!!  Just googled that and prices were $433 to $650!!!   I just hit the annual Defender Sale in March and get my gear on the cheap and often.  Name brand decent stuff for my mostly "fair weather" racing.  Henry Lloyd for 29 bucks.  And when I wore a hole in my $90 padded shorts, I took them to a canvas shop and had a new vinyl seat sewn on for $40.

Mine was about 444€. Yes, thats expensive but I am planning to wear it until I die in it some 140 years from now. 

Seriuosly, I asked around and everybody told me if you want to sit in a wet place and keep your arse dry for longer periods of time, you'll have to spend at least 300 - 400. I have no-name gumboots that I throw away when they start to smell and I just disopsed of a 49€ Caterpillar jacket that was astonishingly good as long as it lasted. But don't mess with pants! I didn't regret buying that one for a second.  

 

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On 1/11/2019 at 10:05 AM, crankcall said:

I'm in a bit of a pickle, I'm in need of new gear. I'll pay for gore-tex having spent enough time wet and cold. What to buy??

plenty of NOS musto gear around .. worth a search.

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Canadian Tire now owns Musto??

Christ on a bike! 

I’ve been drunk longer than I thought.

Maybe now I pay for an offshore smock with all my old Canadian Tire money...

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On 1/10/2019 at 11:51 AM, mustang__1 said:

with musto it's been a lot of horsing around with trying to move their production to china, get into west marine, then gave up on both and moved production back to Poland. Then it got bought by HH. Not sure how much the competition is hurting them, it's only Musto and HL that are selling GoreTex, i think.... and if you're gonna spend several hundred dollars on gear I have trouble justifying not buying goretex (consequently, I don't own a goretex top layer because i won't spend several hundred.... just a few hundred). In other words, I wouldn't buy top of the line Gill because it's not goretex, if i did feel like spending money for top tier stuff. 

i wonder if this will find a way into sailing gear...

https://www.thenorthface.com/featured/futurelight.html

 

Quote

In Fall 2019, we’re launching the world’s most advanced breathable-waterproof outerwear technology. Futurelight will redefine the future of technical outerwear and change how you experience waterproof performance.

 

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On 1/12/2019 at 7:39 AM, bloodshot said:

The EP looks amazing, but I'd  probably be fine with the Meris.

The EP is amazing! Dongfeng had some, Comanche wore it. That stuff is crazy good. The Meris is a rad alternative and at a much better price. Super bomber 4 layer kept me dry through a bunch of liquid sunshine days in the PNW. Highly recommend Mustang’s Meris.

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On 1/24/2019 at 12:42 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

i wonder if this will find a way into sailing gear...

https://www.thenorthface.com/featured/futurelight.html

 

 

The issue with outdoor brands is the salt & durability issue of marine environments. If brands can solve those issues with future light then yeah, it’ll make it to foulies 

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On 1/10/2019 at 4:06 PM, Ricky Craven said:

Derek Zoolander in Capris gracefully holding the roller-furling line on the bow of some 50-ton 1970s battle wagon. 

I guess this is the kind of ad you can expect now that Musto is owned by a Canadian company better known as a purveyor of hockey nets and C$100 barbecues to rural Albertans? 

Amazed Seahorse would give this a two-page spread. Good stuff. 

Musto Zoolander.jpg

Yeah this guy looks like he has never sailed in his life! What is he even looking at? 

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On 1/10/2019 at 12:37 PM, J28 said:

BITD Musto and Henri Lloyd were the top of the line in high quality foul weather gear.  HL has fallen on hard times recently.  Now it seems Musto has also.  Is this a reflection of a lower demand for top quality gear, more competition (Gill, Zhik,  etc.), both, or something else completely?

Mostly because nobody sails anymore. 

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7 hours ago, doghouse said:

Mostly because nobody sails anymore. 

Each year the RYA holds "Push The Boat Out"(yes I know it's a silly name) most clubs round the UK hold an open day sometime in May to offer the chance of a trial sail, normally for free. Last year 39,000 people in the UK took up that offer, even if it's only a small percentage that then go on to take up sailng it helps. As does Advertising, in connection with Push the Boat Out, my Sailing club was on the local radio this morning, that's an Audience of 160, 000 (out of 793,000 in Norfolk).

This sort of thing, plus having a club sailing school, means our number of boats sailing have doubled over the last 15 years and that is still increasing...

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On 5/2/2019 at 8:20 PM, doghouse said:

Mostly because nobody sails anymore. 

Most sailors are cheap 

when I look around my club 1%,have quality gear 

most are fair weather sailors and never venture out in bad weather 

they sit and drink under their enclosed cockpit :)

I have two sets of vortex HL and HH and do not understand why people have no problem spending $1k or more on a ski jacket then buy a boat and cheap out on foil weather gear 

 

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Maybe they are victims of their own quality  /success. I know a guy who sails in a pair of Musto trousers that must be 20 years old. He says they’re still dry. 

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On 5/2/2019 at 9:16 PM, Derek Zoolander said:

Yeah this guy looks like he has never sailed in his life! What is he even looking at? 

"They don't pay me enough to be hauled up there for a damn picture!!!!"

- Stumbling

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On 5/4/2019 at 1:45 AM, jetfuel said:

Most sailors are cheap 

when I look around my club 1%,have quality gear 

most are fair weather sailors and never venture out in bad weather 

they sit and drink under their enclosed cockpit :)

I have two sets of vortex HL and HH and do not understand why people have no problem spending $1k or more on a ski jacket then buy a boat and cheap out on foil weather gear 

 

Toronto/Lake Ontario perhaps not the best example...

 

Fortunately, Seahorse is now featuring the excellent Musto ads where Sam Davies is beasting around on the bow of her imoca.

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On 1/10/2019 at 6:05 PM, crankcall said:

I'm in a bit of a pickle, I'm in need of new gear. I'll pay for gore-tex having spent enough time wet and cold. What to buy??

Patagonia fly-fishing gear.....musto has let me down...Patagonia warenty is solid.   Heavy goretex...rubber cuffs

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3 hours ago, Ricky Craven said:

Toronto/Lake Ontario perhaps not the best example...

 

Fortunately, Seahorse is now featuring the excellent Musto ads where Sam Davies is beasting around on the bow of her imoca.

It’s a cold lake and we sail late into the fall 

lots of weather too so you need good gear here 

10 hrs in the cold rain here is as miserable as anywhere but probably colder than most 

 

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9 hours ago, Ricky Craven said:

Toronto/Lake Ontario perhaps not the best example...

 

Fortunately, Seahorse is now featuring the excellent Musto ads where Sam Davies is beasting around on the bow of her imoca.

Pop over for a Susan hood race or the lo300.

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Susan Hood?? I've never been colder on a boat. or wetter. then we won last year and nothing else mattered. but it is cold 

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, basketcase said:

Pop over for a Susan hood race or the lo300.

I’ve done two Hoods and 2.5 LO300s. For sure, it can be chilly and the steep chop can make it wet. But, that’s really only spring/late fall (summer is extremely light air and warm water) and absence of salt makes a huge difference (gear actually dries/no chafe). 

LO300 you want light weight kit and bug spray. Susan Hood you want ski gear. 

Edited by Ricky Craven
Update

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1 hour ago, Ricky Craven said:

I’ve done two Hoods and 2.5 LO300s. For sure, it can be chilly and the steep chop can make it wet. But, that’s really only spring/late fall (summer is extremely light air and warm water) and absence of salt makes a huge difference (gear actually dries/no chafe). 

LO300 you want light weight kit and bug spray. Susan Hood you want ski gear. 

Ive had the absolute shit kicked out of me in both races. Cold and wet and way too much breeze. Then hotter than balls and no wind for days. And the fucking flys.

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1 hour ago, basketcase said:

Ive had the absolute shit kicked out of me in both races. Cold and wet and way too much breeze. Then hotter than balls and no wind for days. And the fucking flys.

A proper endorsement for the Lake right there! With the thunder squalls, it kind of is all or nothing. Hope you make it to the coast once in a while to escape the madness. 

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1 hour ago, Ricky Craven said:

A proper endorsement for the Lake right there! With the thunder squalls, it kind of is all or nothing. Hope you make it to the coast once in a while to escape the madness. 

Ive spent far too much time lately on either coasts, not sailing... but working on boats. I really miss lake Ontario and Toronto. 

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On ‎5‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 1:45 AM, jetfuel said:

Most sailors are cheap 

when I look around my club 1%,have quality gear 

most are fair weather sailors and never venture out in bad weather 

they sit and drink under their enclosed cockpit :)

I have two sets of vortex HL and HH and do not understand why people have no problem spending $1k or more on a ski jacket then buy a boat and cheap out on foil weather gear 

 

There is no way I'd spend a 1000 on any jacket I just couldn't afford it...

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Understandable but if you had spent 200 k on a boat it isn’t a lot 

if you have a 3 k boat it’s a lot of money 

have many people in my club with 35-40 footers with no quality rain gear although they rarely sail in bad weather 

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I had points in life where I was crewing and 1k in foul weather gear was NOT an option, I just didnt have that money. fast forward 40yrs and I'll get new stuff regularly and offer my old stuff to anybody that has worse stuff than I'm about to hang in a closet. 

 

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I like Musto... Its all I'll buy because it actually works.  But I just saw the MPX Smock is at $675 now... they've got to be fucking high to charge that for a spraytop.

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1 hour ago, miahmouse said:

I like Musto... Its all I'll buy because it actually works.  But I just saw the MPX Smock is at $675 now... they've got to be fucking high to charge that for a spraytop.

This. The MPX race jacket at $775 is bullshit. After being wet this weekend I looked to see what it would cost to replace. FUCK THAT. You can buy other gore-tex for far less, and I highly doubt the yellow god damn hood is worth an extra $400 dollars over a jacket from Patagonia which is comparable. 

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On 5/2/2019 at 7:16 PM, Derek Zoolander said:

Yeah this guy looks like he has never sailed in his life! What is he even looking at? 

Yeah, definitely never sailed before...

https://www.hughbrayshaw.com/

 

Maybe it was just a pose that the marketing department chose!?

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I have a sneaking suspicion about Derek's real life identity.  

He needs more practice in an RS Venture, then he can call himself a proper sailor.  

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On 5/2/2019 at 2:16 PM, Derek Zoolander said:

Yeah this guy looks like he has never sailed in his life! What is he even looking at? 

From a friend:

Hey Alan,

So I was cruising around the site the other day and came across this: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/206304-musto/ a thread about one of The Offshore Academy’s Alumni Sailors Hugh Brayshaw. Seems some of your viewers over that side of the pond have no clue who he is so thought might be worth educating them. http://theoffshoreacademy.org/team/hugh-brayshaw/

Hugh’s done 3 La Solitaire du Figaro events along with a ton of miles on the Figaro 2 competing under The Offshore Academy banner and continues to campaign with one of our owners on his private boat Abu43 over here in the UK where they were 2nd double handed boat in last weekends RORC offshore race. So I hope you can agree far from knowing what he’s doing. Admittedly the Musto photographers had him doing something for the photos I think (Trimming the furling line… LOL).

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11 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

From a friend:

Hey Alan,

So I was cruising around the site the other day and came across this: http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?/topic/206304-musto/ a thread about one of The Offshore Academy’s Alumni Sailors Hugh Brayshaw. Seems some of your viewers over that side of the pond have no clue who he is so thought might be worth educating them. http://theoffshoreacademy.org/team/hugh-brayshaw/

Hugh’s done 3 La Solitaire du Figaro events along with a ton of miles on the Figaro 2 competing under The Offshore Academy banner and continues to campaign with one of our owners on his private boat Abu43 over here in the UK where they were 2nd double handed boat in last weekends RORC offshore race. So I hope you can agree far from knowing what he’s doing. Admittedly the Musto photographers had him doing something for the photos I think (Trimming the furling line… LOL).

 

HUGH BRAYSHAW

D.O.B: 11.08.1993

HOMETOWN: SWANAGE, DORSET

"I have followed the Offshore Academy while dinghy racing for many years, wanting to advance my sailing to a discipline more extreme and adventurous. I've now proved that I possess the raw ingredients to make it as a solo sailor, I am excited to be working with the Academy - enhancing the necessary skills to become a talented offshore sailor and further the success of the programme."

Hugh started competitive dinghy sailing at the age of 10, and won the 420 Youth Nationals with helm Mike Wood in 2010, after which they were selected to represent Great-Britain at the ISAF Youth World Championships where they would finish 6th.

Hugh then made his way up to the British Sailing Team crewing on a 470. Still with helm Mike wood, they finished 2nd at the Junior Europeans in 2012 and in 2013, the pairing would finish the 2013 season with an 8th place at the 470 Junior World Championships.

On joining the Academy, 2016 would be Hugh’s first solo offshore experience. He started out the season with a 17th place at the Solo Concarneau. At the next race of the season, the Solo Maitre Coq, he finished 14th overall after having a very good offshore race. He then finished 14th of the Solo Normandie.

For his first attempt at the Solitaire, Hugh finished 35th. He had to abandon Leg 3 on the first night after his forestay broke.

The 2017 season would be Hugh's second year on the Figaro circuit - mixing sailing with some work commitments, Hugh would retain his Amateur status and compete alongside fellow full-time sailor Mary Rook. Helming 'The Offshore Academy' Hugh posted some respectable results at the beginning of the season with a 24th place in the Solo Concarneau and a 16th place finish in the Solo Normandie. Competing in his second Solitaire race Hugh experienced extremes in conditions from 50kts and 2m seas in the Bay of Biscay in Leg 1 to the becalming of the fleet in Legs 3 and 4. After a strong performance in a very competitive fleet, Hugh finished in 25th place in the General Classification and took the overall prize for winning Amateur.

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On 5/6/2019 at 11:56 PM, The Q said:

There is no way I'd spend a 1000 on any jacket I just couldn't afford it...

Sounds like a personal problem

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On 5/10/2019 at 3:39 AM, Fatboi said:

Maybe it was just a pose that the marketing department chose!?

If you've ever done any sailing for people shooting commercials or feature films, you know how utterly clueless they are when it comes to what is possible. For example, the position of the sun and the direction of the wind and the sea state are never in sync with their vision about what they want in the shot. They are constantly asking you to do the impossible. You just have to suspend your instincts as a sailor and try to give them what they want, which is usually impossible.

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Someone gave my girlfriend a complete set of ultra top end HH sail gear...over $1200 worth.

They gave it to her. Now it's sitting in her closet!

I wear WM

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5 minutes ago, Parma said:

Someone gave my girlfriend a complete set of ultra top end HH sail gear...over $1200 worth.

 

you're confusing the concept of value with retail price.

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On 1/11/2019 at 1:32 PM, Svanen said:

With super-tacky labeling plastered all over everything, too.

Is it really necessary to have large "HH" branding on the outside right collar, right bicep and left rear shoulder, as well as "Helly Hansen" emblazoned on the left sleeve cuff, right inside collar, and rear outside collar? :wacko:

helly_hansen_crew_jacket_navy.jpg

 

 

Helly-Hansen-Mens-Crew-Midlayer-Rain-and

 

If we must serve as a walking advertisement for their products, they can pay us for that privilege.

Helly Hansen should market this model as "The Sponge."  After a few light uses there is literally no waterproof quality left, but it does make for an ok windbreaker when you're walking around town.

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On 5/5/2019 at 6:10 AM, quecatsofai said:

Patagonia fly-fishing gear.....musto has let me down...Patagonia warenty is solid.   Heavy goretex...rubber cuffs

Their pants all have integrated boots, yeah? I'd like to be able to kick my boots off if i ever fall off. I know they can trap air and be useful, but they can also make swimming hard and the integrated stuff can definitely make recovery back into the boat very difficult. 

 

 

Personally, I wish Kokotat would make some offshore gear. Their drysuits are awesome. I sent them an email a while back asking if they ever considered making salopetts, they said i'm not the first to ask but that at that time it wasn't something they were interested in. 

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5 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

Looks like the prices Musto is charging is justified by what Zhik is charging: http://www.apsltd.com/zhik-isotak-2-smock.html

Most clothing isn't actually worth the price. For instance, you can get 3 layer gore-tex fabric for $25 a yard. When you figure in wholesale prices of the fabric, plus labor from China, there is no way that shit should be worth $725. 

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23 minutes ago, trimfast said:

Most clothing isn't actually worth the price. For instance, you can get 3 layer gore-tex fabric for $25 a yard. When you figure in wholesale prices of the fabric, plus labor from China, there is no way that shit should be worth $725. 

Worth is subject, cost is not. You also have no idea what their overhead is - they spend a shit ton on advertising i'm sure, and have relatively small production runs i would imagine (Compared to consumer jackets from, say, Nike). I'm not saying they're worth what they're charging - i'm using some gill and HH stuff that's several years old, but saying "it only cost them x in materials" always rubs me the wrong way. 

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16 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

you're confusing the concept of value with retail price.

It was their top of the line most expensivest stuff and they gave it to her.

I halfway expect her to cut it apart for material to make some new fender covers.....and they gave it to her.

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16 hours ago, Parma said:

It was their top of the line most expensivest stuff and they gave it to her.

I halfway expect her to cut it apart for material to make some new fender covers.....and they gave it to her.

 

Dunno about your/her particular circumstances, but it's pretty common for Vendors or their reps to give away valuable demo stuff, at the end of boat shows, so they have less stuff to pack up, and schlep back home with them.....

EDIT - Back when I had a 23' Mako CC, a friend who was a paint rep would give me a dented gallon of expensive anti-fouling paint, whenever I needed to do the bottom.

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23 hours ago, RumLine said:

Helly Hansen should market this model as "The Sponge."  After a few light uses there is literally no waterproof quality left, but it does make for an ok windbreaker when you're walking around town.

Well, that's what it's for.  No adolescents in your house, eh? My totally lit 15 year old lax bro / nascent bowman son wanted one of these - not the pure shell but the kind with a little bit of a liner - for Christmas.  I badmouthed it as a piece of crap, and besides, you go in the water on an overnight race, it's camouflage and I really don't have a lot of bowmen to spare at the moment.    

The little barracks lawyer explained that all the fashionable kids are wearing this $140 jacket, along with either their Sperrys or thong sandals, Bermuda shorts and brand name T-shirts.  "It's calm, dad."  WTF?  Calm?  Guess that means "cool" now.  Fuck me, the English language has passed me too.

So he got one for Christmas.  He says that he'd never wear it on the boat - it's no good except in a drizzle.  I laughed about that - a rain coat that doesn't stop rain.  But I should be quiet, it's one of the few things that he and his friends consider stylish that actually looks good.  The in-kids also think wearing knee high white athletic socks with Bermuda shorts and Nikes looks good.  I don't have the heart to tell the boy or his friends that it's a Chulo thing that was never mainstream and really went out in 2003 after the second edition of Grand Theft Auto.  He and his buddies looks like a bunch of 60 year old British guys wandering around at some North Atlantic beach on holiday...

Helly-as-Fashion-Gear seems stupid, but I'm probably the idiot here.  There's a lot more young men under age 30 than there are sailors of all ages, and those young men (or their parents) are emotionally blackmailed into paying retail.  (At least I knew to get it on sale from Defender or Fawcetts or somesuch...)  Helly are obviously making a shit ton of money from being a fashion brand rather than a sailing brand.  Wouldn't be surprised at all to see them leave the sailing market behind.  Plus I wore white pants and a shitty Members Only jacket in the 80's, I don't have any solid ground from which to throw stones. 

I sure would like it if there was a good sub-$800 offshore jacket solution though. My Gil salopettes are awesome but the nearly new Gill coastal jacket is only okay in a drizzle, it has leaked from day one, which is a shame because as the driver, the boom funnels all water off the mainsail right into my face as if I were a urinal trough outside the Spaten tent at Octoberfest, and I'm not sure the Nikwax waterproof treatments I'm trying are going to work.  I may wind up buying a Grunden's work jacket at this rate, which will be like a rainforest inside with sweat and funk, but at least cut down on the icy cold water intrusion from outside.  Oh, and not stylish at all, unless you're a commercial fisherman.  

And if I do that, I'm also going to need a nice Helly windbreaker for wearing around Naptown to tell lies about how well we raced.  They're totally calm, bruh. 

 

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42 minutes ago, Lex Teredo said:

Well, that's what it's for.  No adolescents in your house, eh? My totally lit 15 year old lax bro / nascent bowman son wanted one of these - not the pure shell but the kind with a little bit of a liner - for Christmas.  I badmouthed it as a piece of crap, and besides, you go in the water on an overnight race, it's camouflage and I really don't have a lot of bowmen to spare at the moment.    

The little barracks lawyer explained that all the fashionable kids are wearing this $140 jacket, along with either their Sperrys or thong sandals, Bermuda shorts and brand name T-shirts.  "It's calm, dad."  WTF?  Calm?  Guess that means "cool" now.  Fuck me, the English language has passed me too.

So he got one for Christmas.  He says that he'd never wear it on the boat - it's no good except in a drizzle.  I laughed about that - a rain coat that doesn't stop rain.  But I should be quiet, it's one of the few things that he and his friends consider stylish that actually looks good.  The in-kids also think wearing knee high white athletic socks with Bermuda shorts and Nikes looks good.  I don't have the heart to tell the boy or his friends that it's a Chulo thing that was never mainstream and really went out in 2003 after the second edition of Grand Theft Auto.  He and his buddies looks like a bunch of 60 year old British guys wandering around at some North Atlantic beach on holiday...

Helly-as-Fashion-Gear seems stupid, but I'm probably the idiot here.  There's a lot more young men under age 30 than there are sailors of all ages, and those young men (or their parents) are emotionally blackmailed into paying retail.  (At least I knew to get it on sale from Defender or Fawcetts or somesuch...)  Helly are obviously making a shit ton of money from being a fashion brand rather than a sailing brand.  Wouldn't be surprised at all to see them leave the sailing market behind.  Plus I wore white pants and a shitty Members Only jacket in the 80's, I don't have any solid ground from which to throw stones. 

I sure would like it if there was a good sub-$800 offshore jacket solution though. My Gil salopettes are awesome but the nearly new Gill coastal jacket is only okay in a drizzle, it has leaked from day one, which is a shame because as the driver, the boom funnels all water off the mainsail right into my face as if I were a urinal trough outside the Spaten tent at Octoberfest, and I'm not sure the Nikwax waterproof treatments I'm trying are going to work.  I may wind up buying a Grunden's work jacket at this rate, which will be like a rainforest inside with sweat and funk, but at least cut down on the icy cold water intrusion from outside.  Oh, and not stylish at all, unless you're a commercial fisherman.  

And if I do that, I'm also going to need a nice Helly windbreaker for wearing around Naptown to tell lies about how well we raced.  They're totally calm, bruh. 

 

Probably best not to share too many other details on this subject. :lol:

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2 hours ago, Lex Teredo said:

Well, that's what it's for.  No adolescents in your house, eh? My totally lit 15 year old lax bro / nascent bowman son wanted one of these - not the pure shell but the kind with a little bit of a liner - for Christmas.  I badmouthed it as a piece of crap, and besides, you go in the water on an overnight race, it's camouflage and I really don't have a lot of bowmen to spare at the moment.    

The little barracks lawyer explained that all the fashionable kids are wearing this $140 jacket, along with either their Sperrys or thong sandals, Bermuda shorts and brand name T-shirts.  "It's calm, dad."  WTF?  Calm?  Guess that means "cool" now.  Fuck me, the English language has passed me too.

So he got one for Christmas.  He says that he'd never wear it on the boat - it's no good except in a drizzle.  I laughed about that - a rain coat that doesn't stop rain.  But I should be quiet, it's one of the few things that he and his friends consider stylish that actually looks good.  The in-kids also think wearing knee high white athletic socks with Bermuda shorts and Nikes looks good.  I don't have the heart to tell the boy or his friends that it's a Chulo thing that was never mainstream and really went out in 2003 after the second edition of Grand Theft Auto.  He and his buddies looks like a bunch of 60 year old British guys wandering around at some North Atlantic beach on holiday...

Helly-as-Fashion-Gear seems stupid, but I'm probably the idiot here.  There's a lot more young men under age 30 than there are sailors of all ages, and those young men (or their parents) are emotionally blackmailed into paying retail.  (At least I knew to get it on sale from Defender or Fawcetts or somesuch...)  Helly are obviously making a shit ton of money from being a fashion brand rather than a sailing brand.  Wouldn't be surprised at all to see them leave the sailing market behind.  Plus I wore white pants and a shitty Members Only jacket in the 80's, I don't have any solid ground from which to throw stones. 

I sure would like it if there was a good sub-$800 offshore jacket solution though. My Gil salopettes are awesome but the nearly new Gill coastal jacket is only okay in a drizzle, it has leaked from day one, which is a shame because as the driver, the boom funnels all water off the mainsail right into my face as if I were a urinal trough outside the Spaten tent at Octoberfest, and I'm not sure the Nikwax waterproof treatments I'm trying are going to work.  I may wind up buying a Grunden's work jacket at this rate, which will be like a rainforest inside with sweat and funk, but at least cut down on the icy cold water intrusion from outside.  Oh, and not stylish at all, unless you're a commercial fisherman.  

And if I do that, I'm also going to need a nice Helly windbreaker for wearing around Naptown to tell lies about how well we raced.  They're totally calm, bruh. 

 

TL;DR

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2 hours ago, doghouse said:

TL;DR

Too bad. You missed a good rant!

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