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kent_island_sailor

The Wall Truth

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Here is a reality check - even if everyone suddenly loved walls, it would be a decade or longer project. It would be like building a nuclear reactor because a storm caused a blackout. If there actually is some kind of "emergency", the wall will be the very definition of too late.

Hell, eminent domain might be a decade's worth of court cases right there before any building gets done.

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14 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Here is a reality check - even if everyone suddenly loved walls, it would be a decade or longer project. It would be like building a nuclear reactor because a storm caused a blackout. If there actually is some kind of "emergency", the wall will be the very definition of too late.

Hell, eminent domain might be a decade's worth of court cases right there before any building gets done.

yep

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Trump does't care, it's about maintaining his base, you know the ones too retarded to think critically or ask logical questions.

We know Don the con wants 5 Billion yet there is not even a plan, you gotta trust me....yeah right.

If the nation allows this,  Trump will be holding the country to ransom next week over another manufactured crisis.

This bullshit is straight out of the dictators playbook, remove the fuckwit from office in a straight jacket!

Donnie must know his times up, he must know when Mueller comes a knocking things are gonna go downhill fast, this is his vainglorious attempt at a legacy.

He should be deprived of it, he has deprived his govt workers of a paycheck while he scores political points, his tariffs have fucked the countries exports,  he has screwed the markets with his constant chaos theory,   he has singularly  pissed of every ally the country has ever had, he has done little to earn anything but contempt.

His tenure has meant that both China and Russia have stepped up and are quickly becoming the worlds power brokers, the USA under Trump has become a shadow, a laughing stock.

Lock HIM up!

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31 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Ummmmmm, ok. Has nothing to do with our porous southern border.

Same with the large number of folks who overstay their visa and also the drugs streaming into our country. 

Yhd wall will do NOTHING about them. 

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Here is a reality check - even if everyone suddenly loved walls, it would be a decade or longer project. It would be like building a nuclear reactor because a storm caused a blackout. If there actually is some kind of "emergency", the wall will be the very definition of too late.

Hell, eminent domain might be a decade's worth of court cases right there before any building gets done.

Technically, construction can start and even finish before an Eminent Domain case is settled. It's only a matter of how much $, not IF the property will be taken. There have been a few exceptional court cases that dragged on a while but they are very rare. Desert dirt along the border won't be one of those cases.

This however does not change the fact you would have to be a fucking idiot to think building a "wall" is the answer to the immigration situation.

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been posted elsewhere , however since this thread is titled truth ...............

‘If there’s a concrete wall in front of you, go through it,’ Trump said in 2004 speech

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/01/10/if-theres-concrete-wall-front-you-go-through-it-trump-said-unearthed-commencement-speech/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6f1334ab9457

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 Interesting from FactCheck.org

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

SNIP/

How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?
There were 12 million immigrants living in the country illegally as of January 2015, according to the most recent estimate from the Department of Homeland Security. The estimates from two independent groups are similar: The Pew Research Center estimates the number at 10.7 million in 2016, and the Center for Migration Studies says there were 10.8 million people in 2016 living in the U.S. illegally.

That would be about 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent of the total U.S. population in 2016 or 2015.

All three groups use Census Bureau data on the foreign-born or noncitizens and adjust to subtract the legal immigrant population.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrant population had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

CMS found a decline in the undocumented population, and specifically those from Mexico, of about 1 million since 2010. And the Pew Research Center found a peak of 12.2 million in the population in 2007, and a decline since.

END/

 

Snip/

How many people are crossing the border illegally?
There’s no official measure of how many people succeed in illegally crossing the border, but authorities use the number of apprehensions to gauge changes in illegal immigration. Apprehensions on the Southwest border peaked in 2000 at 1.64 million and have generally declined since, totaling 396,579 in 2018.

Those numbers, which come from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, are for fiscal years and date back to 1960.

border-apprehensions2.jpg

That’s a 76 percent decline in the number of apprehensions between the peak in 2000 and 2018. ( Bolded for Emphasis)

End/

In summary total illegals  about 3.7% of the total population.

Apprehensions down 76% and a decline of 1 Million illegals specifically from Mexico since 2010

Obviously there is (in Donnies feeble Mind and those of a few hard core MAGATS) still a reason to invest in a 5 billion buck wall.

 

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3 hours ago, Dorado said:

Technically, construction can start and even finish before an Eminent Domain case is settled. It's only a matter of how much $, not IF the property will be taken. There have been a few exceptional court cases that dragged on a while but they are very rare. Desert dirt along the border won't be one of those cases.

This however does not change the fact you would have to be a fucking idiot to think building a "wall" is the answer to the immigration situation.

A permanent injunction was issued blocking the takings of some of the properties at issue in the Kelo case. It wasn't so permanent when the Supreme Court got hold of it, but did last for a while.

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6 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Here is a reality check - even if everyone suddenly loved walls, it would be a decade or longer project. It would be like building a nuclear reactor because a storm caused a blackout. If there actually is some kind of "emergency", the wall will be the very definition of too late.

Hell, eminent domain might be a decade's worth of court cases right there before any building gets done.

Four years if funded. 

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19 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

Four years if funded. 

So you are a wall scientist in addition to all your other super powers?  Ever built a wall dum dum? That was rhetorical since we know you just pull shit out of your ass.

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3 hours ago, d'ranger said:

So you are a wall scientist in addition to all your other super powers?  Ever built a wall dum dum? That was rhetorical since we know you just pull shit out of your ass.

To be fair  Jack has had plenty of experience with estimating project time lines.  His predictions regarding the f35 have been outstanding.

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Actually, I don't think his base really cares about a wall. "Build the Wall" is simply a slogan, a symbolic chant ..and I think Trump runs a big risk of boring them shitless over this.

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4 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Actually, I don't think his base really cares about a wall. "Build the Wall" is simply a slogan, a symbolic chant ..and I think Trump runs a big risk of boring them shitless over this.

Think again. After reading.

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Quote

 

He surrounded himself with border agents, victims of horrible crimes, a display of methamphetamine and heroin, an AK-47 and an AR-15 rifle, and a trash bag stuffed with $362,062 in cash that had been confiscated by law enforcement officials.

In his view, it all added up to a single word, “crisis,” with a lone solution, building a wall — a point he emphasized in a discussion with the crime victims, law enforcement officers and McAllen residents.

“That says it all,” Mr. Trump said of the contraband. “They didn’t have to go very far. This is all very recent.”

But there was another reality. The display of drugs, weapons and cash was mainly the product of law enforcement actions stopping criminals at international bridges, where most drugs are smuggled, and conventional ports of entry.

In a place where a wall is already in place, law enforcement officials boasted of apprehending criminals who had built a tunnel. The money was taken from a suspect who had overstayed a visa.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/10/us/politics/trump-mcallen-border-crisis.html

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Trump said The Wall will be “100% effective.” Like the War on Drugs I suppose. The Wall will be 100% effective at being a wall. Not so much for reducing visa overstays or actual terrorism. If terrorists could get lessons on how to fly airliners could anyone predict that lessons in hacksaws or ladders might be available?

Are the people in The Base really this uninformed? Really? Wow.

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19 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Here is a reality check - even if everyone suddenly loved walls, it would be a decade or longer project. It would be like building a nuclear reactor because a storm caused a blackout. If there actually is some kind of "emergency", the wall will be the very definition of too late.

Hell, eminent domain might be a decade's worth of court cases right there before any building gets done.

While I don’t really care one way or another about the wall, that’s a pretty lousy argument. 

Substitute global warming for illegal immigration and pretend it’s Happy Jack making the argument. Why worry about coal, it’ll be years before we see any benefits of clean energy!!

(see, it’s a pretty weak argument)

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

While I don’t really care one way or another about the wall, that’s a pretty lousy argument. 

Substitute global warming for illegal immigration and pretend it’s Happy Jack making the argument. Why worry about coal, it’ll be years before we see any benefits of clean energy!!

(see, it’s a pretty weak argument)

I disagree. If there is no emergency, there is no reason to shut down the government over a project that isn't all that important and won't be done while Trump is still in office anyway.

Now if it is an emergency, a decade(s) long fix isn't much help right now. Kind of like calling 911 because your house is on fire and they say "We are going to apply for a building permit for a fire department right away" :rolleyes:

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6 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I disagree. If there is no emergency, there is no reason to shut down the government over a project that isn't all that important and won't be done while Trump is still in office anyway.

Now if it is an emergency, a decade(s) long fix isn't much help right now. Kind of like calling 911 because your house is on fire and they say "We are going to apply for a building permit for a fire department right away" :rolleyes:

Actually, its kind of like calling 911 and saying "I know something is happening, but I just don't know what it is"  so can you please surround my house?

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9 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

Actually, I don't think his base really cares about a wall. "Build the Wall" is simply a slogan, a symbolic chant ..and I think Trump runs a big risk of boring them shitless over this.

Very Wrong. I wanted two things from Trump. A real physical complete wall and as many SCOTUS picks as possible. And NO, I am not hoping for  RBG's early demise; I am not a Democrat and I don't think that way.

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

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24 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Actually, its kind of like calling 911 and saying "I know something is happening, but I just don't know what it is"  so can you please surround my house?

 

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15 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

Will you get a new online personality?  Trump has never followed though on anything.  How many divorces?  How many bankruptcies?  How many women has had to pay to keep quiet?

He's quite the leader and so trustworthy.

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6 minutes ago, hasher said:

Will you get a new online personality?  Trump has never followed though on anything.  How many divorces?  How many bankruptcies?  How many women has had to pay to keep quiet?

He's quite the leader and so trustworthy.

How many men are too embarrassed to admit a liaison with the tiny toadstool?

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9 minutes ago, hasher said:

Will you get a new online personality?  Trump has never followed though on anything.  How many divorces?  How many bankruptcies?  How many women has had to pay to keep quiet?

He's quite the leader and so trustworthy.

haaaaa elections have consequences   

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7 hours ago, El Boracho said:

Trump said The Wall will be “100% effective.” Like the War on Drugs I suppose. The Wall will be 100% effective at being a wall. Not so much for reducing visa overstays or actual terrorism. If terrorists could get lessons on how to fly airliners could anyone predict that lessons in hacksaws or ladders might be available?

Are the people in The Base really this uninformed? Really? Wow.

the great wall was not 100% effective

the berlin wall was not 100% effective

the DMZ in Korea is NOT 100% effective

he;'s a fucking retard.........ain't he ;-)

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28 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

Sure, it's not like you have never flip flopped before.  Quick change of those Independepants and you're good to go.

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21 minutes ago, d'ranger said:
50 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

 

Where will you find someone more incompetent?

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45 minutes ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

This is the ONLY reason Trump has made the wall his last stand.  Not you specifically, but your elk... you know, the morons that think he's doing the right thing. 

 

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1 hour ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I disagree. If there is no emergency, there is no reason to shut down the government over a project that isn't all that important and won't be done while Trump is still in office anyway.

Now if it is an emergency, a decade(s) long fix isn't much help right now. Kind of like calling 911 because your house is on fire and they say "We are going to apply for a building permit for a fire department right away" :rolleyes:

Border control agent briefs Trump on the state of the non-problem.

 

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Dog, this is just like Climate Change - no matter how much data is presented you can always find someone to explain why it's wrong. Funny how you and your elk will latch on to that bit as ultimate truth.

It never ends.

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21 hours ago, Dorado said:

Technically, construction can start and even finish before an Eminent Domain case is settled. It's only a matter of how much $, not IF the property will be taken. There have been a few exceptional court cases that dragged on a while but they are very rare. Desert dirt along the border won't be one of those cases.

This however does not change the fact you would have to be a fucking idiot to think building a "wall" is the answer to the immigration situation.

A barrier is one part of the equation. In a sinking boat do you fix only one of the many leaks?

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30 minutes ago, Dog said:

Border control agent briefs Trump on the state of the non-problem.

 

I am 100% sure there are problems at the border. There were problems there before I was born and also likely after I am long dead. Also note that almost no agency anywhere will ever say "We solved the issue we were created to address, we don't need any more money, go away" :rolleyes:

Problem <> Emergency. If there was not enough of an emergency to get the Republican Congress to act, why is there all of a sudden one now? What changed in the last week or two?

Please explain.

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35 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I am 100% sure there are problems at the border. There were problems there before I was born and also likely after I am long dead. Also note that almost no agency anywhere will ever say "We solved the issue we were created to address, we don't need any more money, go away" :rolleyes:

Problem <> Emergency. If there was not enough of an emergency to get the Republican Congress to act, why is there all of a sudden one now? What changed in the last week or two?

Please explain.

I think the degree of the problem/emergency/crisis  varies at different location along the border. Jim Acosta of CNN reports from the border that there are no problems where border is fenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBeIxwHsEM

In related news the Washington Post reports another caravan reported to be double the size of the previous one is scheduled to leave Honduras next week.

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41 minutes ago, warbird said:

A barrier is one part of the equation. In a sinking boat do you fix only one of the many leaks?

It's a  multi-billion dollar band-aid on a bullet wound. It doesn't remedy the problem.

Let's go after the people that make the big bucks exploiting the illegal labor for a start.

Put an end to this sanctuary city bullshit for next step.

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14 minutes ago, Dog said:

I think the degree of the problem/emergency/crisis  varies at different location along the border. Jim Acosta of CNN reports from the border that there are no problems where border is fenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBeIxwHsEM

In related news the Washington Post reports another caravan reported to be double the size of the previous one is scheduled to leave Honduras next week.

Why should we worry about this one dog?  I mean, all it took was an election to make the crisis go away last time. 

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13 minutes ago, Dog said:

I think the degree of the problem/emergency/crisis  varies at different location along the border. Jim Acosta of CNN reports from the border that there are no problems where border is fenced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6DBeIxwHsEM

In related news the Washington Post reports another caravan reported to be double the size of the previous one is scheduled to leave Honduras next week.

So where are the emergencies worthy of calling out the Army and shutting the government down and when did they start?

Also note the "caravans" that terrify FoxxyNewsers are made up of people applying for asylum,which is legal and will not be effected in the slightest by any wall construction.

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8 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

So where are the emergencies worthy of calling out the Army and shutting the government down and when did they start?

Also note the "caravans" that terrify FoxxyNewsers are made up of people applying for asylum,which is legal and will not be effected in the slightest by any wall construction.

Migrants applying for asylum.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0it79Qzxu-o

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I still don't see how it's an emergency:

border-apprehensions2.jpg

Border crossings are WAY down, and have been since before Trump even thought of running..  

 

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17 minutes ago, Kirwan said:

I still don't see how it's an emergency:

border-apprehensions2.jpg

Border crossings are WAY down, and have been since before Trump even thought of running..  

 

Gee, looks like they started dropping seriously with Obama.  Who would have ever thought of that.  

 

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NPR was Science Friday today, and the were interviewing a bunch of Scientists laid off from Federal jobs and programs.  Some of these folks are going to be in real trouble.  Also the 11,500, poor, old and disabled, living on HUD subsidies, which have stopped being funded.

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3 hours ago, hasher said:

Will you get a new online personality?  Trump has never followed though on anything.  How many divorces?  How many bankruptcies?  How many women has had to pay to keep quiet?

He's quite the leader and so trustworthy.

2

A new online personality? Why?  

 

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2 hours ago, warbird said:

A barrier is one part of the equation. In a sinking boat do you fix only one of the many leaks?

If it’s an emergency I won’t spend much time bedding the Bimini,    In fact, I’d be willing to defer the Bimini entirely if I needed to work out a game plan with the owner for some reason, and nothing was being done while we argued.   

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1 hour ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

A new online personality? Why?  

 

You've an image to uphold.

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The problem is not people coming into this country. Illegally, or not. It is people fucking this country. That is the Trumps, not the Gonsalves.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

You've an image to uphold.

I bet he doesn't show in mirrors, speaking of which.

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3 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

A new online personality? Why?  

 

Ask Happy jack

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Here is the reason why Trump holds firm. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/08/poll-voters-blame-trump-gop-for-shutdown-1088207

"Our polling suggests Republican voters are responding well to President Trump's handling of the contentious battle around the government shutdown," said Tyler Sinclair, Morning Consult's vice president. "Notably, 69 percent of Republican voters blame congressional Democrats, and 15 percent blame President Trump for the government shutdown. Among the same group, the president's approval crept upward, with 84 percent approving and 15 percent disapproving of his performance this week, compared to 81 percent approval and 18 percent disapproval pre-shutdown

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what is 69% of 30%? you probably can't do that math. Drumpf is a swirling turd, trying to take us down the toilet with him. 

 

 

Image result for trump turd

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3 hours ago, The Joker said:

Here is the reason why Trump holds firm. 

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/01/08/poll-voters-blame-trump-gop-for-shutdown-1088207

"Our polling suggests Republican voters are responding well to President Trump's handling of the contentious battle around the government shutdown," said Tyler Sinclair, Morning Consult's vice president. "Notably, 69 percent of Republican voters blame congressional Democrats, and 15 percent blame President Trump for the government shutdown. Among the same group, the president's approval crept upward, with 84 percent approving and 15 percent disapproving of his performance this week, compared to 81 percent approval and 18 percent disapproval pre-shutdown

Sorry, I don't understand the bolded bit.  Only days before the shutdown started, Trump boasted that he was proud to be shutting the government down - he totally owned the shutdown.  How can people ignore that, and blame someone else (the democrats - but anyone) for something that Trump claimed as his own signature piece? 

Serious question - that's bizarre.  

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12 hours ago, Nailing Malarkey Too said:

If Trump caves on the Wall I'm not sure I could continue to support him. 

"Obama isn't American. Oh fine, actually he is."

"Lock her up. Actually, nah nevermind."

"Drain the swamp. Or hire lobbyists and conflicted industry personnel to run departments that they used to lobby."

"I'll release my taxes. Well actually I won't."

 

Do you really think he's going to build a wall?

 

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1 hour ago, Recidivist said:

Sorry, I don't understand the bolded bit.  Only days before the shutdown started, Trump boasted that he was proud to be shutting the government down - he totally owned the shutdown.  How can people ignore that, and blame someone else (the democrats - but anyone) for something that Trump claimed as his own signature piece? 

Serious question - that's bizarre.  

It's Republican voters.  They watch Fox News and read breitbart.com all day.  Nuff said.

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6 hours ago, BrickTopHarry said:

It's Republican voters.  They watch Fox News and read breitbart.com all day.  Nuff said.

Oh, brain rot

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On 1/10/2019 at 7:00 PM, Navig8tor said:

 Interesting from FactCheck.org

https://www.factcheck.org/2018/06/illegal-immigration-statistics/

SNIP/

How many immigrants are living in the U.S. illegally?
There were 12 million immigrants living in the country illegally as of January 2015, according to the most recent estimate from the Department of Homeland Security. The estimates from two independent groups are similar: The Pew Research Center estimates the number at 10.7 million in 2016, and the Center for Migration Studies says there were 10.8 million people in 2016 living in the U.S. illegally.

That would be about 3.3 percent to 3.7 percent of the total U.S. population in 2016 or 2015.

All three groups use Census Bureau data on the foreign-born or noncitizens and adjust to subtract the legal immigrant population.

DHS estimated that the growth of the illegal immigrant population had slowed considerably, saying the population increased by 470,000 per year from 2000 to 2007, but only by 70,000 per year from 2010 to 2015.

CMS found a decline in the undocumented population, and specifically those from Mexico, of about 1 million since 2010. And the Pew Research Center found a peak of 12.2 million in the population in 2007, and a decline since.

END/

 

Snip/

How many people are crossing the border illegally?
There’s no official measure of how many people succeed in illegally crossing the border, but authorities use the number of apprehensions to gauge changes in illegal immigration. Apprehensions on the Southwest border peaked in 2000 at 1.64 million and have generally declined since, totaling 396,579 in 2018.

Those numbers, which come from the U.S. Customs and Border Protection, are for fiscal years and date back to 1960.

border-apprehensions2.jpg

That’s a 76 percent decline in the number of apprehensions between the peak in 2000 and 2018. ( Bolded for Emphasis)

End/

In summary total illegals  about 3.7% of the total population.

Apprehensions down 76% and a decline of 1 Million illegals specifically from Mexico since 2010

Obviously there is (in Donnies feeble Mind and those of a few hard core MAGATS) still a reason to invest in a 5 billion buck wall.

 

So, the estimate is based on the assumption that all illegals report to the census bureau?

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8 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So, the estimate is based on the assumption that all illegals report to the census bureau?

It’s all smoke and mirrors to claim the border situation is all manufactured. 

While those numbers are down. Those at the border requesting asylum just hit a new record high last year.  In other words the tactic of invading our country illegally has changed.  

Instead of sneaking in you simply claim asylum, make sure you have a kid or two, and our liberal courts have made it illigal to hold these gate crashers for more than 20 days.  

So come in spend three weeks getting free care, food and shelter.  

Then you are released into America with a court date. That 90% never show up for.  

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Just now, The Joker said:

 

Then you are released into America with a court date. That 90% never show up for.  

That's a lie, of course. 

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6 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

That's a lie, of course. 

No it’s not.   90% never show up to their scheduled court date. 

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/report-90-of-illegals-skip-immigration-court-appearances-135-000-will-go-missing

A day at court   18 out of 20 are no shows   Hint: that’s 90%

https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/immigration/item/18778-illegal-immigrant-children-fail-to-show-at-immigration-hearings

Here is a report from 2015 at 84% before the rise in amnesty requests  

https://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/brittany-m-hughes/dhs-report-84-illegal-alien-adults-not-court-final-case-hearing

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1 minute ago, The Joker said:

Holy shit.  Talk about a horrible source.  That headline says, "Report: 90% of illegal immigration skip court. . . "   But that article doesn't mention, cite or quote any report.  It quotes some block head congressman that seems to be pulling the stat out of his ass-- just like you.  You Trump 'tards are fountains of lies and fear. 

Credible sources will tell you

Quote

 

Around 60-75 percent of non-detained migrants have attended their immigration court proceedings, according to Justice Department data from the last five available years. Some limited data suggests rates may be higher for asylum-seekers.

https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/jun/26/wolf-blitzer/majority-undocumented-immigrants-show-court-data-s/

 

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Quote

 

Some people do skip court hearings: In cases that began in fiscal year 2017, 3,167 UACs were given removal orders after failing to appear at a court hearing, according to the Syracuse data.

But far more show up for court. Over the last 13 years, more than twice as many cases were resolved with immigrants in court rather than in absentia, according to the Syracuse data. What's more, nearly all UACs show up when they have attorneys. Just 75 represented UACs were found in absentia, out of more than 54,036 overall cases from fiscal year 2017.

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/immigration/fact-check-trump-s-misleading-claims-about-catch-release-n870591

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12 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Those at the border requesting asylum just hit a new record high last year.  In other words the tactic of invading our country illegally has changed.  

 

Or the conditions at home have changed. 

FLEEING FOR OUR LIVES: CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANT CRISIS

https://www.amnestyusa.org/fleeing-for-our-lives-central-american-migrant-crisis/

Excerpt -

Migration from Central America to the U.S. is not a new phenomenon, however the reasons, or push factors that are causing people to migrate or flee have changed. The Northern Triangle of Central America (“NTCA”), composed of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, is considered one of the most dangerous places on earth, which has caused unprecedented levels of migration. The United Nations High Commissioner for refugees has called this a humanitarian crisis. Many Central Americans are refugees who like Syrians, are fleeing for their lives.

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I suggest you read your own links.  

The 60- 75 is for ALL immigrants. 

I provided two other sources from an actual report and court proceedings  

i backed up my 90 claim  

I’ll conceded that it may not be that high , but it doesn’t change the fact that many after being released into this country do not come back to court   

 

 

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25 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

So, the estimate is based on the assumption that all illegals report to the census bureau?

Isn't that why you rightwingers had a hardon for asking about citizenship? To purge the illegals from the count?

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Just now, The Joker said:

i backed up my 90 claim  

I’ll conceded that it may not be that high , but it doesn’t change the fact that many after being released into this country do not come back to court  

fuck yeah, pure Trump here. "I backed up my claim, but the backup might be wrong, so it's not a backup, and the number is different, but still do what I say because nebulous bad numbers".

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3 minutes ago, Sean said:

Or the conditions at home have changed. 

FLEEING FOR OUR LIVES: CENTRAL AMERICAN MIGRANT CRISIS

https://www.amnestyusa.org/fleeing-for-our-lives-central-american-migrant-crisis/

Excerpt -

Migration from Central America to the U.S. is not a new phenomenon, however the reasons, or push factors that are causing people to migrate or flee have changed. The Northern Triangle of Central America (“NTCA”), composed of El Salvador, Guatemala, and Honduras, is considered one of the most dangerous places on earth, which has caused unprecedented levels of migration. The United Nations High Commissioner for refugees has called this a humanitarian crisis. Many Central Americans are refugees who like Syrians, are fleeing for their lives.

Possibly.  It doesn’t change the fact that while one type of immigrant border crossing is down another is way up. 

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6 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

fuck yeah, pure Trump here. "I backed up my claim, but the backup might be wrong, so it's not a backup, and the number is different, but still do what I say because nebulous bad numbers".

Look you fucking idiot.  I backed up my numbers with cites.

 I agreed to look at the other numbers provided.  It’s called a discussion.

 Now go back to juvenile name calling it suits your pathetic life style  

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I like how President Reagan put it -

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind, it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind swept, God blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace - a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.

.......

And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the Pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home.

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2 minutes ago, Clove Hitch said:

More and more it's just not worth engaging Trump 'tards.  They are immune to facts and reason.  

Spoken like a true believer.  “Only my facts and my reasoning are correct “ 

Any other opinions are not worth discussing. 

Carry on. 

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15 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I like how President Reagan put it -

I've spoken of the shining city all my political life, but I don't know if I ever quite communicated what I saw when I said it. But in my mind, it was a tall proud city built on rocks stronger than oceans, wind swept, God blessed, and teeming with people of all kinds living in harmony and peace - a city with free ports that hummed with commerce and creativity, and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.

.......

And she's still a beacon, still a magnet for all who must have freedom, for all the Pilgrims from all the lost places who are hurtling through the darkness, toward home.

Different people different times.  

You do know that his shining city had  a wall with doors,  Right?  

 

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8 hours ago, Recidivist said:

Sorry, I don't understand the bolded bit.  Only days before the shutdown started, Trump boasted that he was proud to be shutting the government down - he totally owned the shutdown.  How can people ignore that, and blame someone else (the democrats - but anyone) for something that Trump claimed as his own signature piece? 

Serious question - that's bizarre.  

You must have missed this;

Republican voters

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4 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Spoken like a true believer.  “Only my facts and my reasoning are correct “ 

Any other opinions are not worth discussing. 

Carry on. 

Like most Trump supporters you appear unable to distinguish between "facts and reasoning" and opinions.

Or are you including "alternative facts" in your "reasoning"?

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Like most Trump supporters you appear unable to distinguish between "facts and reasoning" and opinions.

Or are you including "alternative facts" in your "reasoning"?

Is Calling 18 out of 20 no shows 90% a fact or opinion?  

Is calling the situation at the border a crisis.  Fact or opinion?  

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3 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Is Calling 18 out of 20 no shows 90% a fact or opinion?  

Is calling the situation at the border a crisis.  Fact or opinion?  

18 out of 20 no shows?  You're making shit up again-- also known as lying.  Why do you Trump tards lie so much?

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Is Calling 18 out of 20 no shows 90% a fact or opinion?  More like right wing bullshit.

Is calling the situation at the border a crisis.  Fact or opinion?  neither, it's right wing ignorance and demagoguery. A tempest in a teapot

 

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:
8 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Spoken like a true believer.  “Only my facts and my reasoning are correct “ 

Any other opinions are not worth discussing. 

Carry on. 

Like most Trump supporters you appear unable to distinguish between "facts and reasoning" and opinions.

Or are you including "alternative facts" in your "reasoning"?

It's the modern world, facts don't matter. Truthiness matters! As long as you can find some bullshit on the internet to support your opinion, you're an expert!

 

2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

...    ...

Is calling the situation at the border a crisis.  Fact or opinion?  

I dunno, what's your definition of a "crisis"?

It's certainly not a Nation Emergency requiring the President to exercise special powers. Even using your bullshit statistics, it is not a threat to the nation as a whole.

OTOH the fact of SCARY BROWN PEOPLE plus Democrats winning elections, now to good little Republicans, -that- is a National Emergency requiring that a dictator assume command.

-DSK

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51 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Those at the border requesting asylum just hit a new record high last year.  

Do you have a cite for this?

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Surely you jest.

He should change his handle from The Joker to The Village Idiot.

Although we do have 2 or 3 of those here already.

Maybe The Court Jester?

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3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Surely you jest.

He should change his handle from The Joker to The Village Idiot.

Although we do have 2 or 3 of those here already.

Maybe The Court Jester?

Or, just ask which nutter he was before becoming a returd.

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27 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Spoken like a true believer.  “Only my facts and my reasoning are correct “ 

Any other opinions are not worth discussing. 

Carry on. 

Interesting how you completely ignored Sean’s post. 

Pot/Kettle. 

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27 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Different people different times.  

You do know that his shining city had  a wall with doors,  Right?  

Um, yeah. In the interest of accuracy, I’ve copied the relevant portion of what I posted -

“...and if there had to be city walls, the walls had doors, and the doors were open to anyone with the will and the heart to get here.”

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Any source that uses '18 out of 20' to cite statistics is discredited.  The only way that works is if there were only 20 illegals due in court.  Fuck, haven't you ever seen a Crest commercial, 4 out of 5 dentists, not 800,000 out of 1,000,000.  

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Classic projection: Republicans know full well their "facts" are bullshit to support their policies, so they think everyone else's facts are also bullshit. This is the end goal of Putin's efforts, not to get us to believe in lies but to think all there are is lies.

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Spoken like a true believer.  “Only my facts and my reasoning are correct “ 

Any other opinions are not worth discussing. 

Carry on. 

Opinions based on bullshit are not worth discussing. That would be yours.

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