sailorcolin

Which to Choose? - Colgate 26 or Beneteau First 24

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The club that I work at has a couple that is in the market for a new sailboat. They are torn between a new Colgate 26 ($45k) or the brand new Beneteau First 24 ($67k). They would like a boat that can do the following, Race, Booze Cruise, poke around Lake Norman, NC. Given that the Beneteau is new, there aren't any PHRF ratings out there to see where it will fall. The Colgate's has a PHRF around 162 from what I have researched. Also, the boat will be kept on a lift at the Yacht Club. 

So given, the info on the boats and the couple, which boat do you think could do the following better? 

  • Easy to sail
  • Race ready
  • Booze Cruise 
  • Lazy Sunday Sail
  • Quick-ness
  • Resale Value

yysw223737.jpgcolgate_26_photo.jpg

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construction comparison ?....how do the quality of build compare between the two ?

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1 minute ago, SailBlueH2O said:

construction comparison ?....how do the quality of build compare between the two ?

I personally don't know! That's one of the reasons I'm asking the sailing world 

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IMHO this is a no brainer if cost is not the defining factor.  The Colgate is a tank, it is under canvased (on purpose as it was designed as a sailing school trainer) does it even come with a spin?? Is there anything below that resembles bunks??  and, well, its heavy.  The bene = latest and greatest all purpose racer/cruiser.  Actually amazed that those 2 are both on their radar as they represent 2 drastically different boats built for totally opposite reasons.   Plus $45k for a Colgate???  WTF?

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14 minutes ago, sailorcolin said:

Why? 

The First 24 with the sprit..  more sail options..  will have a lot better performance..  down below is more of a weekender+   the colgate is a day sailor  , you can throw the First onto a trailer , take it to the coast and be comfortable  bay hopping..

the colgate looks like the  hunter 17 plastic fantastic  ..

 

you haven't said how old the couple is, sailing experience.. kids .. etc..     so needs change with those..

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^^^^^^ The last two posts. You couldn’t choose two more different boats to compare.

The Beneteau would be more demanding and more rewarding and much quicker if sailed well. It will be a bitch if they can’t handle it well enough.

Beneteau looks to have more accommodation down below, but the Colgate has a larger, more secure cockpit.

I would guess that the Beneteau 24 would be hard to sail to its PHRF. With a Colgate, they presumably will be racing against lots of other Colgate’s and friends?

Resale value would be safer with a Colgate, seems a lot cheaper and less depreciation, unless they win a lot of races in the Beneteau. How good/keen racers are they?

But they sound like a conservative couple, so, they should go with the Colgate, as much as my heart screams Beneteau (for me)....

PS: Get a good second hand one and avoid the depreciation.....

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12 minutes ago, gullwinkle said:

Tripp 26

nice little boat , but   " This is not a cruising boat, but there are accommodations. "  

Personally I would look for a used Beneteau 235 that's been updated with the usual mods..    full head,  plenty of room down below and perfect for lake norman , plus you could pick a nice one for around  $9K 

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God i hate the colgate 26. It has a purpose, but I don't think that purpose is private ownership. The damn thing is a heavy under canvassed pig that responds like a drunk raccoon hopped up on horse sedatives. If money is no object, go for the Bene. At least it looks fun to sail. The Tripp 26 is also not a bad option. 

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^^^ love the description.. 

  hell the Bene 18 would even be a better option..    I wonder why on the colgate site they don't show a single pic of down below..

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3 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

^^^ love the description.. 

  hell the Bene 18 would even be a better option..    I wonder why on the colgate site they don't show a single pic of down below..

cause there aint none...  ;)

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Big difference in pricing, but I’d agree the Bene is a better choice. The Colgate 26 was built to be a sail trainer and take a lot of abuse. The Bene F24 would be more fun to sail. In addition to all the reasons given above, I wouldn’t buy any boat with a conventional spinnaker over a sprit boat. Once you sail a sprit, you’ll never go back.

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The Bene 24 looks like a downwind bias boat that wants to stretch its legs a bit. How suitable is this for a small inland lake for just messing around? I would look more for an all rounder that has no problem pointing high in light winds...where it's relatively easy for anybody to find the groove.

In this range one of the more interesting boats to come around lately, to me at least, would be the RS 21. 

There are other models in the RS line that might be more learner/sailing school friendly as well. 

https://www.rssailing.com/en/

 

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46 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

^^^^^^ The last two posts. You couldn’t choose two more different boats to compare.

The Beneteau would be more demanding and more rewarding and much quicker if sailed well. It will be a bitch if they can’t handle it well enough.

Beneteau looks to have more accommodation down below, but the Colgate has a larger, more secure cockpit.

I would guess that the Beneteau 24 would be hard to sail to its PHRF. With a Colgate, they presumably will be racing against lots of other Colgate’s and friends? No other colgates on the lake. 

Resale value would be safer with a Colgate, seems a lot cheaper and less depreciation, unless they win a lot of races in the Beneteau. How good/keen racers are they? They are learning but plan to race and travel with the boat alot in the future. 

But they sound like a conservative couple, so, they should go with the Colgate, as much as my heart screams Beneteau (for me)....

PS: Get a good second hand one and avoid the depreciation.....

2

NOTES

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5 minutes ago, sailorcolin said:

travel with the boat alot in the future. 

 

Then the F24  as they are probably want some sort of sleeping accommodations..   port - a potty    small camp stove..       with the colgate momma will have to hang her ass off the stern and she ain't going to be happy...

the learning curve between the two isn't that much different.

and the RS21,   I don't think there'd be much fun poking around Lake Norman in it..

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53 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

But they sound like a conservative couple, so, they should go with the Colgate, as much as my heart screams Beneteau (for me)....

Will they stay conservative? I’d always rather buy a boat I could grow into over one that’s easy to sail at first. A conservative boat would become boring sooner, leading to buyers remorse, and confronting more $ to trade. Only the OP knows the couple and how to advise them.

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Travel? One has a lifting keel, is lighter = much easier to travel with.  My advice - learn to sail on a beater boat until comfortable with something performance, then if those are the 2 choices? fast is fun.

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14 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

Then the F24  as they are probably want some sort of sleeping accommodations..   port - a potty    small camp stove..       with the colgate momma will have to hang her ass off the stern and she ain't going to be happy...

the learning curve between the two isn't that much different.

and the RS21,   I don't think there'd be much fun poking around Lake Norman in it..

Travel as in trailer it to regattas and stay in a hotel. Not travel on the boat or sleep on the boat at the regattas 

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44 minutes ago, fufkin said:

The Bene 24 looks like a downwind bias boat that wants to stretch its legs a bit. How suitable is this for a small inland lake for just messing around? I would look more for an all rounder that has no problem pointing high in light winds...where it's relatively easy for anybody to find the groove.

In this range one of the more interesting boats to come around lately, to me at least, would be the RS 21. The RS is too small. They want to entertain a bit and booze cruise. 

There are other models in the RS line that might be more learner/sailing school friendly as well. looking at the others now

https://www.rssailing.com/en/

 

3
4

Notes

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I grew up on Lake Norman and live in Charleston.  Where are there weekend PHRF regattas in NC, SC, GA,TN or VA they can travel to outside of Charleston Race Week?  I guess they could hit a NOOD in Annapolis of FL.  

Are they intending to sail shorthanded?  What is their sailing experience?  Don't want to throw them to the wolves.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

I grew up on Lake Norman and live in Charleston.  Where are there weekend PHRF regattas in NC, SC, GA,TN or VA they can travel to outside of Charleston Race Week?  I guess they could hit a NOOD in Annapolis of FL.  

Are they intending to sail shorthanded?  What is their sailing experience?  Don't want to throw them to the wolves.

 

 

They mostly are going to be sailing on the lake. Eventually, they'd like to sail CRW, and head to a few other regattas throughout the year, maybe down to Miami too. They don't intend to sail shorthanded form what I know. They have a good bit of experience cruising and their son has a lot of regatta experience. Also, I most likely will be the skipper to start until the owners are more comfortable in regatta situations. 

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So while I totally agree the First 24 will be quicker, I'm not sure I agree the Colgate is slow or under-canvassed.  After all, its rating compares favorably to a J-24, S2 7.9, Capri 25, Merit 25, Kirby 25, etc, etc.  

Also PHRF rating of the First 24 maybe harder to sail to on a light air lake where the opportunity to get up on a plane is less frequent.

There was (is?) a Colgate 26 named Easy Button that raced quite successfully on the Chesapeake Bay - based in Solomons Island as I recall, and raced at Southern Bay Race Week a bunch.  Should be able to find results for it, and a pretty stable rating as a result. 

First 24 will be easier to trailer/launch, but if there is a hoist at their club, certainly the C-26 can be trailered too.

Colgate 26 has a well deserved reputation for being rugged.  USNA has a fleet of them for training new plebes how to sail.  Its a better "first boat" for folks just learning to sail.  If they stick to sailing, likely they will end up selling either boat 5 or 6 years down the road for a bigger, different boat.

Both boats will serve the need...

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Hey, the Colgate is fine at what it was meant for.  Terrific daysailer--responsive, easy to rig, can be singlehanded, room in the safe, deep cockpit for everyone. Zero thruhulls, very low maintenance.  Quite competitive in PHRF.  It's a really good boat to learn on.  It has 4 'berths", but zero ventilation (other than the hatch) and no amenities.  Portopot fits under the bridgedeck. You could camp in it, but you would have to be into minimalist life.  Can be trailered, but getting the mast up and down takes some custom-made legs and quite a bit of time.  

I would think that the Bene would be challenging for newbies to learn on.  It's a lot more boat, of course.  If cost were no object, get the Bene.  Very cool boat.

The real question is, why the heck buy a new Colgate?  You can get a nicely maintained race-ready used Colgate for 25k, and that way you don't lose 35% of the value of the boat the moment you sign the bill of sale.  New boats are a bad idea for new sailors.  Save the 40k you didn't spend on the brand new Bene for boat #2, when you actually know what you like.

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1 hour ago, sailorcolin said:

They mostly are going to be sailing on the lake. Eventually, they'd like to sail CRW, and head to a few other regattas throughout the year, maybe down to Miami too. They don't intend to sail shorthanded form what I know. They have a good bit of experience cruising and their son has a lot of regatta experience. Also, I most likely will be the skipper to start until the owners are more comfortable in regatta situations. 

They need to look at an S.2 7.9.

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Anyone that would be seriously considering buying a brand new Colgate 26 for private use doesn't know enough about boats to be buying one. I mean, a beater for dicking around on the lake with, sure, why not?

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Just now, fucket said:

Anyone that would be seriously considering buying a brand new Colgate 26 for private use doesn't know enough about boats to be buying one.

love your enthusiasm! that's the spirit! 

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First 24 w/o a doubt. It will be both faster & easier to handle on all points of sail in all conditions except 12+ upwind.

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3 hours ago, sailorcolin said:

They mostly are going to be sailing on the lake. Eventually, they'd like to sail CRW, and head to a few other regattas throughout the year, maybe down to Miami too. They don't intend to sail shorthanded form what I know. They have a good bit of experience cruising and their son has a lot of regatta experience. Also, I most likely will be the skipper to start until the owners are more comfortable in regatta situations. 

like I said, knowing that up front.. ,   they want to race, get a race boat..  get  the Tripp..   or find an older Olson 25

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S2 7.9 has quite a large presence on Lake Norman. Actually a few S2 7.9 regattas.  Boat is fast and stable enough, much more so than the Bene, for newbies. Retractable keel makes for easy launch/haul. A good one is much cheaper than the Bene 24 or Colgate.  Heavier though so would need an appropriate tow vehicle. 

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9 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

construction comparison ?....how do the quality of build compare between the two ?

Aren't the Colgate boats built at Precision Boatworks? You know, in Bradenton?

http://www.precisionboatworks.com/customer_support/company.php

For those who don't know, I worked at a Precision dealership.

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Why did they drop J-22 from consideration? Fun to sail, competitive in PHRF  one design regattas, easy to trail and rig, save the $ for the second boat.

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Sailed the Colgate 26 working for Offshore Sailing School. Put more hours and more abuse in a month than an owner may in a lifetime. Zero maintenance. 

A plus was the rudder. It is speced for a 30-footer. Bulletproof. Used to sail the boat at speed, turn hard up and then pull the tiller hard to windward, perpendicular across the boat. Absolute quick stop. I enjoyed the boat. Not so much the short wing keel version.

Dave Ellis

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J-22. Used to stage their midwinter's at St. Pete Yacht Club. Steve Benjamin's crew forgot to center the masthead Windex one light air day. No problem. They got on one side hanging from the shroud. But after fixing the masthead the boat did not come up unless two guys got up on the keel. Not self righting.

That and the Lake Norman microburst where there were drownings attributed to the J-22s not recovering. 

All us coaches wanted J-22s when SPYC were shopping for 10 club boats. Got Sonars instead. A month later the Sonar became the Paralympic boat. Serindipidy...

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Wasn’t that impressed by the Colgates at UKSA. The 24 is hands down the better boat in my opinion. I’m not sure how price stacks up but the Bente 24 is another boat that might fit the bill

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21 hours ago, sailorcolin said:

They would like a boat that can do the following, Race, Booze Cruise, poke around Lake Norman, NC.

The two boats seem significantly different to me. If "poking around" is going to include overnighting, I'd rather sleep in a cabin than a sail locker.

If it's not, I'd rather have more cockpit. And also have the ability to banish the main trimmer to the back of the boat.

21 hours ago, sailorcolin said:

Given that the Beneteau is new, there aren't any PHRF ratings out there to see where it will fall.

That can be interesting. A friend bought a Multi 23 when they were new. Fun boat. But the rating was mostly based on sailing performance by the dealer and a few other really, really good sailors. Oh, and they did a few little things like fairing the centerboard trunk. Bigger sails. Nothing major. My friend has reasonable sailing skills. I was among his crew, and I'm more the answer to "how can we go today instead of not going" than "how can we find a rock star to win it" in my racing skills. So when we poked around with our open centerboard trunk and our training sails, we looked worse than we actually were based on PHRF.

As for resale value, it was kind of fun selling new Com-Pac Sun Cats in the early 2000's because there was basically no such thing as a used one. It was fun brokering used ones too, for the same reason. Selling a new Precision 23 when the brokerage had a nice ten year old sitting next to it? Not so fun.

So for a while, I'd guess that selling a used First 24 would be easier than selling a used Colgate because you're not up against nice older boats.

 

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13 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Aren't the Colgate boats built at Precision Boatworks? You know, in Bradenton?

http://www.precisionboatworks.com/customer_support/company.php

For those who don't know, I worked at a Precision dealership.

weird. Lived in Bradenton through middle school/high school, had no idea. 

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28 minutes ago, mustang__1 said:

weird. Lived in Bradenton through middle school/high school, had no idea. 

My parents moved there in the 90's and Punta Gorda had a Precision dealership that had escaped my notice. I walked in to ask for a job in 2004 wondering what a Precision was, hoping I'd like it.

I've been to the factory many times to fetch new boats. Nice people and a long time in the business. Of course, I mostly dealt with a guy named Bart, whose job it was to be nice to the dealers who bought the boats and the salesmen who came to fetch them.

22 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Travel? One has a lifting keel, is lighter = much easier to travel with. 

 

13 hours ago, sailwriter said:

Sailed the Colgate 26 working for Offshore Sailing School. Put more hours and more abuse in a month than an owner may in a lifetime. Zero maintenance. 

A plus was the rudder. It is speced for a 30-footer. Bulletproof. Used to sail the boat at speed, turn hard up and then pull the tiller hard to windward, perpendicular across the boat. Absolute quick stop. I enjoyed the boat. Not so much the short wing keel version.

Dave Ellis

Nobody puts on a wing because they like it. They do it because they sail in Fort Myers, where Offshore is located.

And because, as d'ranger said, trailering.

I haven't launched a Colgate but have launched a Catalina 250 wing keel from a trailer. Bubble, bubble, said the exhaust of the boss' truck when that thing finally came free. If it drew another foot? We'd have been forced to do that thing where you release the trailer and let it down the ramp with a winch. This would have been a very unpopular choice at a ramp frequented by fishing boats.

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ok, looked at lake norman throat wobbler mangrove club web..  why not a J/70...    first there's a fleet there to race against..  local knowledge to help with the boat... and there are plenty of nice used boats  for around $30k     regattas everywhere for 1d    no having to mess with phrf

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Wing keel Colgate 26 was actually pretty quick on free legs. Lost upwind. Raced one in the St. Pete NOOD one year, five Colgates. Steve Colgate won with new sails. The instructor's sails we're the learn to sail issue. I came in second with the only wing version. But I did not know it until we pulled out on the hoist. So not phsyched out. 

Fort Myers and South Seas Resort had plenty of water; just stay inside the lines.

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They seem to be missing a lot of worthy boats from their consideration. Just a few more: C&C 25 mk V, Laser 28, S2 7.9, Catalina Capri. You can buy nice, race-ready versions of any of these boats for less than $20k, usually with new(ish) sails and will likely be worth the same in 5 years as they are now.

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Beneteau 24 hands down

i have sailed the Seascape 24 and it’s a great little boat and very well made 

had it for a week in Biscayne Bay and it was a lot of fun

Can plane in about 12-14 knots true and feels very stable 

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Unfortunately for us Canucks the Bene 24 would be well past $100K landed here after exchange, taxes and our retaliatory duties thank to Trump.  

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4 hours ago, commotion said:

Unfortunately for us Canucks the Bene 24 would be well past $100K landed here after exchange, taxes and our retaliatory duties thank to Trump.  

That sucks

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17 hours ago, sailwriter said:

I came in second with the only wing version. But I did not know it until we pulled out on the hoist. So not phsyched out. 

Fort Myers and South Seas Resort had plenty of water; just stay inside the lines.

Hah! Interesting thought that wings are faster if you don't know they are there!

I know where many of the shallow spots between Estero and Venice are. Built kind of a Braille chart in my head by hitting them. That foot of draft costs many square miles of fun water.

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7 hours ago, commotion said:

Unfortunately for us Canucks the Bene 24 would be well past $100K landed here after exchange, taxes and our retaliatory duties thank to Trump.  

Didn't EU and Canada just pass CETA few years ago that got rid off most of the tariffs? I would think that 24s would still be built in Slovenia after the Beneteau bought them.

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2 hours ago, dogballs Tom said:

Hah! Interesting thought that wings are faster if you don't know they are there!

I know where many of the shallow spots between Estero and Venice are. Built kind of a Braille chart in my head by hitting them. That foot of draft costs many square miles of fun water.

Yes, and the shoals move. Worked out of South Seas Resort in 1985-6. Went back after 13 years at St. Pete Yacht Club. Sailing out there was much shouting from the other instructors.  The former channel had shoaled up.

Oh, and when a winged keel does run aground, good luck heeling to decrease draft!

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11 hours ago, sailwriter said:

Yes, and the shoals move. Worked out of South Seas Resort in 1985-6. Went back after 13 years at St. Pete Yacht Club. Sailing out there was much shouting from the other instructors.  The former channel had shoaled up.

Oh, and when a winged keel does run aground, good luck heeling to decrease draft!

Yeah, you have to hit them more frequently than that to stay current.

I've run a few wing keels aground and always spun off with no trouble, but never really stuck one in muck. I've left some shoes in the muck and heard of the same effect on wings but never experienced it.

From my list of things I know, but should not: heeling to decrease draft is one way to get a fin keel onto a flat from which it's hard to remove it.

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for lake norman - get yourself a $4000 used lightning and tow the thing to the southern circuit once you get good at it.

thousands of them around, plenty of sailmakers with tuning guides, it only weighs 700 lbs and can probably get on a plane and stick with the boat you are drooling over.  AND you will have a minimum of 40 grand in your pocket compared to the cheapest boat you mentioned.

OR if they want to be able to sleep on it, get a corsair 242, leave it on the trailer with the mast up and drop it in the water and sail away.  If you put a big square top main on it you will stick with the boats you mentioned in all but the lightest winds and smoke them in anything over 10.  it rates around 90, sails flat, has trampolines to lounge on, and doesn't suck. 

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9 hours ago, Loose Cannon said:

OR if they want to be able to sleep on it, get a corsair 242, leave it on the trailer with the mast up and drop it in the water and sail away.  If you put a big square top main on it you will stick with the boats you mentioned in all but the lightest winds and smoke them in anything over 10.  it rates around 90, sails flat, has trampolines to lounge on, and doesn't suck. 

I like that it's a loose cannon who brings up boats with training wheels. :ph34r:

Mast-up is nice if you can get it but rare and comes with a waiting list in this part of the world.

It took 30 minutes to launch our F27 for day sailing, 40 if the bow sprit was going on for racing.

I loved them from the moment I first saw one at the Miami Boat Show and enjoyed owning it. My wife hated it and it got sent to Sweden.

spinrun162.jpg

Now I want an old 24, the kind with a centerboard for when I hit bottom.

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Hi: I recently made the choice to purchase a Seascape 24 (Beneteau First 24) so trying to be responsive for this couple's needs, here's some few things to consider:

              1. The PH rating is likely to come out at about 102.  It will be a much faster and more exciting and much more fun boat to sail in every condition.  It is set up to be simple for beginners, but challenging to old timers. (I am 77 and have been sailing and racing small and large boats for 70 years. ) According to the designer Sam Manuard, the boat has been designed for up and downwind racing, whereas the Seascape 27 was designed more for reaching.  The seascape will plane in moderate winds. The rating of the  Colgate tells me that boat rarely planes. It will sail roughly as fast as a J-24.  If that's what they want they should get a J-24. There are thousands of them to race with.  

               2. They want to learn to sail and compete and go a lot of places with their boat.  The Seascape has a stout swing keel that comes fully up into the boat.  It will be much easier to trail; it will be easy to launch from a ramp as well as a hoist.  It draws 6'3" keel down, but if shallow lake sailing is a big part of the plan, there is a shallow draft version.

              3.  Because the Seascape keel is fully retractable the boat can weekend on Lakes, can be beached for picnics and daily family fun. The hull has been structured for that use.

               4.  I like that the sail area is scaleable. The's a jennaker that's large, and a Code 5 that's much smaller; these sails roller furl...There are also two jib sizes. Alot of lake sailing is in quite light conditions. The seascape will be a lively sail in light conditions. 

                Mark Twain is famously quoted as saying that watching a sailboat race is like watching the grass grow. That's because boats that sail as displacement boats in the water, are quite limited as to boat speed. But that all changed in recent years with the advent of modern materials that make much lighter planing and foiling boats possible.  I am keeping my Beneteau 40.7 for offshore sailing. But I purchased the Seascape 24 for the fun factor.   

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6 hours ago, Kiwi Clipper said:

Hi: I recently made the choice to purchase a Seascape 24 (Beneteau First 24) so trying to be responsive for this couple's needs, here's some few things to consider:

              1. The PH rating is likely to come out at about 102.  It will be a much faster and more exciting and much more fun boat to sail in every condition.  It is set up to be simple for beginners, but challenging to old timers. (I am 77 and have been sailing and racing small and large boats for 70 years. ) According to the designer Sam Manuard, the boat has been designed for up and downwind racing, whereas the Seascape 27 was designed more for reaching.  The seascape will plane in moderate winds. The rating of the  Colgate tells me that boat rarely planes. It will sail roughly as fast as a J-24.  If that's what they want they should get a J-24. There are thousands of them to race with.  

               2. They want to learn to sail and compete and go a lot of places with their boat.  The Seascape has a stout swing keel that comes fully up into the boat.  It will be much easier to trail; it will be easy to launch from a ramp as well as a hoist.  It draws 6'3" keel down, but if shallow lake sailing is a big part of the plan, there is a shallow draft version.

              3.  Because the Seascape keel is fully retractable the boat can weekend on Lakes, can be beached for picnics and daily family fun. The hull has been structured for that use.

               4.  I like that the sail area is scaleable. The's a jennaker that's large, and a Code 5 that's much smaller; these sails roller furl...There are also two jib sizes. Alot of lake sailing is in quite light conditions. The seascape will be a lively sail in light conditions. 

                Mark Twain is famously quoted as saying that watching a sailboat race is like watching the grass grow. That's because boats that sail as displacement boats in the water, are quite limited as to boat speed. But that all changed in recent years with the advent of modern materials that make much lighter planing and foiling boats possible.  I am keeping my Beneteau 40.7 for offshore sailing. But I purchased the Seascape 24 for the fun factor.   

Kudos to Kiwi Clipper.  77 years young and still looking for fun and fast.

I echo the advice of another earlier poster who suggested a used J70 as an alternative to a Colgate 26. 

The OP mentioned wanting to go to Charleston Race Week. The J70s race on the inside circle. The Colgate 26 would be going outside to race PHRF and you would be one of very few open day sailors going out. I think you would be among last to the bar at end of day and in stiff weather would have an uncomfortable day.

J70 has steady resale. Colgates are an intermittent market at best. J70 can poke around lakes with furling jib but they are also lively to race on a Wednesday evening. Lots of regattas to attend. Lifting keel.   No accommodation so they can stay in the hotel.  Modernish conservative design.  Shame about the club foot but its an established success.

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Scratch the Colgate from the list.  Better options than that boat for any purpose.  J70 is a good suggestion.  The Seascape/Bene is a really nice boat.  Probably not going to sail to its rating in light inland lake though.  Can't go wrong with either.  J70 fleet is much different than PHRF sailing.  

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