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This appears to be dicky no matter the sitch, and while we don't exactly know, here is what Anarchist Liz said about it:

Hi, this is the second image recently taken Jan 12 on Tampa Bay at an Opti Regatta. The negligent adult skipper plowed through the clearly marked Opti race course no sign of safety. He also yelled obscenities at the children (ages 8-12) telling them to get the F%$# out of the way.

Please note he is also on Port tack. Regardless, he had the choice to stay clear like all of the other large boats and chose not to. There are several upset parents about this and I thought if I shared it here you may have advise how to spread the word for better safety on the water. This behavior is not acceptable I'd like to hear what y'all think. 

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The other pic is a totally different boat actually sailing THROUGH the optis. This guy seems to be behind the course and clear.  Whoops.  Just blew up the shot and saw the opti rig on the other side. Both boats being dickheads.

 

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2 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

The other pic is a totally different boat actually sailing THROUGH the optis. This guy seems to be behind the course and clear.

Yeah sure but those dudes have Mt Gay hats on, they totally know what they are doing. 

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I remember being a Marshall for a CMRC event one weekend a few years back in Chicago. Clearly marked course, we had flags flying (not Clean pink :wub:) on 4 power boats on the perimeter trying to keep the Match Race course clear, 10 competitor boats, barge, and a slew of Umpire boats and spectators. 95%+ altered course when asked. However there is always that guy on the water that feels that no one can tell them where to go.

 

We had a huge powerboat all Rodney Dangerfield like fly through the course, fat guy with cigar and all and a few sailboats that DGAF and proceeded to cross the field of play. 

 

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Looks like a Tampa / St. Pete boat called WIRED,  at one time owned by a guy named Allen Thomas--- but it's old info, could be a different owner now ?  Based on the sail number I"m guessing a Farr 395

 

  Sail Number Yacht Name Owner/Skipper R 1 R 2 R 3 R 4 R 5 R 6 R 7 R 8 R 9 R 10 R 11 Total
Division C Racing
  PHRF Division
    PHRF 1
    1. USA 42341 Warrior  Grant Dumas  2 2 2 3 2 2 2 1 3.5     19.5
    2. USA 12 Panic Button  Todd/Ryan Howe  6 4 6 1 1 1 1 5 3.5     28.5
    3. USA 46453 Madcow2  Dave German / Ed Ruark  5 5 5 2 3 3 3 2 2     30.0
    4. USA 39526 No Limit  Neal Burns & Robert Hobbs  3 3 4 4 6 5 4 3 1     33.0
    5. USA 39511 Wired  Allen Thomas  4 1 3 6 4 9/ DNF 5 4 5     41.0
    6. USA 11 Tack Tick  Michael Siedlecki  1 6 1 5 5 9/ DNF 9/ DNC 9/ DNC 9/ DNC     54.0
    7. USA 83242 Tampa Girl  William Terry  7 7 7 7 7 4 6 6 6     57.0
    8. USA 41227 Intrepid  Jeff Russo  8 8 8 9/ DNF 9/ DNS 9/ DNC 9/ DNC 9/ DNC 9/ DNC

EDIT:  The "other picture" in the link is clearly a different boat than this one

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Info From 2017 St. Petersburg - Habana Race:

Owner / Skipper Info

Name:Stefan Achilles/Brocks
City:Tampa
State:FL
Country:USA
Yacht Club:DIYC


Yacht Info

Name:"Wired" - USA 39511
Design:Farr 395
Year:2001
Length:39.5
Hull:Blue
Spin:Blue-White-Red

Rating:39.0 (PHRF) 

 

The photo could be misleading, telephoto can make it look closer, but if someone on the boat was yelling obscenities, etc, seems like no excuse for that.

If anyone knows Stefan or Sigurd, they ought to ask him for a comment.

 
   
   

 
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, footlong said:

Two different boats??

Two different assholes...

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WHAT A DICK,ASSHOLE,FUCK STICK AND COCK SUCKER.IF MY KID WAS ON THE COURSE I WOULD MEET HIM AT THE BIKE RACK.

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5 minutes ago, wingssail said:

 

   
   

 

Info From 2017 St. Petersburg - Habana Race:

Owner / Skipper Info

Name:Stefan Achilles/Brocks
City:Tampa
State:FL
Country:USA
Yacht Club:DIYC


Yacht Info

Name:"Wired" - USA 39511
Design:Farr 395
Year:2001
Length:39.5
Hull:Blue
Spin:Blue-White-Red

Rating:39.0 (PHRF) 

 

The photo could be misleading, telephoto can make it look closer, but if someone on the boat was yelling obscenities, etc, seems like no excuse for that.

If anyone knows Stefan or Sigurd, they ought to ask him for a comment.

 
   
   

 
 
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

 

 

HE IS ON THE HIT LIST NOW

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I don't think either of those boats is a Farr 395

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sorry guys, i had a different setting for the other image so i deleted it.

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4 minutes ago, ROADKILL666 said:

HE IS ON THE HIT LIST NOW

Why?  We don’t even know if that’s the culprit. Perhaps the boat has been sold since then. Perhaps that boat bought the sail used off Wired. Perhaps the owner wasn’t on the boat.

At least get the facts before trashing someone publicly.  

Once we actually know the offenders, then we can have some fun!

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Why do both of the boats pictured have assholes standing tall on the rail looking around? Really can't stand this type of entitled asshole.

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The facts are pretty clear imho: The big boat has no class. And the message being sent to the kids is its okay to grow up and be a dick. 

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59 minutes ago, jackolantern said:

Sail number USA 39511. Anyone know the ASSHOLE?

Fify

 

Thats why it’s good to have a brain when you operate any vessel on the water. 

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Tampa Bay is widely very shallow so maybe the skip was doing all he could to both avoid the optis and not run aground. I'd really like to see a chart of where the incident occurred before making any judgement. You all should too.

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AlmostCaptain Culdgivafuk at the helm. Redeemed by the above post

24D1A9D8-9ED6-4CF0-9E95-36C2709A42FA.jpeg

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2 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said:

First of all, the second photo (linked in the OP) isn't even remotely involved in the regatta.  Don't know where that photo came from but I don't even think it's Tampa Bay.  Look at the scratch sheet  for yourselves, no boat of that type competed in the regatta.  Also you can make out one of the optimist sail numbers and that's not a sail number listed in the optimist regatta.  This photo appears in a FB post on the incident, since removed.  Could have been a mistake, could be a troll.

Second - Allen Thomas sold the boat long ago – Allen, a great guy, was not involved.

Third – My son was sailing in the Optimist regatta; I was yards away when then happened and I’m just out of the picture frame.  Wired was also racing on a leg that took them to a fixed mark that  the Opti RC set their course around.  DIYC maintains that mark and it's been there for years.  Being yards away I can tell you that Wired maneuvered through the Optimist fleet safely.  The photo looks worse than it really was. 

There was an interpersonal altercation between a one of Wired’s crew and a coach boat.  I did not hear what was said.  I was on the other side of Wired asking her crew what mark they were going to.  By this time I was sure Wired was going to safely navigate her way through the Opti fleet but I wanted to know where the rest of the fleet was headed because they were all headed our way.   I think I know who did the shouting on Wired - I'd be surprised if they cussed at the children - but it's possible they overheard the heated exchange.  

Do you know if "Liz" was on the coach boat that exchanged words with the larger boat?

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I'd say the owner's kid was on Opti #18122.  Ya know,  providing a slight advantage to him/her. 

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

WHAT A DICK,ASSHOLE,FUCK STICK AND COCK SUCKER.IF MY KID WAS ON THE COURSE I WOULD MEET HIM AT THE BIKE RACK.

Be sure to put some Bactine on those fingertips after you get done beating him up with boldest of uppercase letters!

(And maybe ice them afterwards so you can get back and furiously typing)

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

WHAT A DICK,ASSHOLE,FUCK STICK AND COCK SUCKER.IF MY KID WAS ON THE COURSE I WOULD MEET HIM AT THE BIKE RACK.

I'm with you

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54 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said:

Don't know where that photo came from but I don't even think it's Tampa Bay

 

55 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said:

I was yards away when this happened and I’m just out of the picture frame.

Huh? Is there a picture I'm not seeing?

56 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said:

The photo looks worse than it really was.

Untitled.jpg.82d886dcdcd0dee6a3fe9c7f7d9463ae.jpg

Maybe my depth perception is off (I am getting up there in age) but that doesn't quite appear to be "navigated safely through the fleet". 19039 looks like he's going to bounce off the stbd bow. Kid's probably scrambling for his praddle.

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7 minutes ago, OutofOffice said:

 

Huh? Is there a picture I'm not seeing?

Maybe my depth perception is off (I am getting up there in age) but that doesn't quite appear to be "navigated safely through the fleet". 19039 looks like he's going to bounce off the stbd bow. Kid's probably scrambling for his praddle.

Yes there is a picture you are not seeing. It used to be there but is no longer, Ref post #14.

There seem to be two eyewitness views of this, smokeandoakum and liz were both present, and both appear to have had kids in optis in the event. They don't totally agree.

 

Here is the question:

If you are sailing along in a race in a keelboat and realize that between you and your next mark there is a fleet of optis, what would you do?

my current answer is 'it depends' :0

I would definitely choose safety over speed. but I'm not sure if my view of safely passing the fleet would be exactly the same as that of the most cautious coach/parent of the opti fleet.

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When I was a little kid in sailing school it was awesome when the big boats got close. Real close. Just sayin'....

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1 hour ago, CrushDigital said:

Why do both of the boats pictured have assholes standing tall on the rail looking around? Really can't stand this type of entitled asshole.

If I were the skipper in that situation I'd probably have a crewmember standing lookout at the weather rail helping to con me through the gaggle of kids while I kept my eye on the bulk of the fleet passing below me. That's what I see there. 

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53 minutes ago, hobot said:

Be sure to put some Bactine on those fingertips after you get done beating him up with boldest of uppercase letters!

(And maybe ice them afterwards so you can get back and furiously typing)

Would you want your kid in that kind of situation.Some of the kids today can't deal with that.They are not as tough as we were.

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we had the same thing happen in the D - the big boat course went thru an Opti course - I sailed up to line of Opti's at tacked around.  The coach boats were in ramming position to protect the Opti's. I mean these guys were serious.  And that was OK.   I remember a lot of face book comments about what was I whining about - I should have sailed right thru them stupid stuff like that.    As it was tacking away was the right thing - I mean if a poor kid freaked out and you ran him over......not good for anybody.

I would say that that in this case the owner of that boat needs to re-consider how close he got to the Opti's windward mark.  Yes they look like they are rounding and going away but he is pretty close. (not sure why one is on other side of boat).

Its a dick move - but even good guys make mistakes.  Hopefully the guy realizes how stupid he was learns from it.  

And BTW were were the coach boats???

Link - https://www.facebook.com/search/top/?q=drya opti&epa=SEARCH_BOX

 

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4 minutes ago, smokeandoakum said:

Your depth perception is probably fine.  But your not looking at the event, your looking at a photo of the event. 

I hear you, and I'll have to take your word that you were there and can speak to the matter. I will just add one thing.

Sometimes, especially when it comes to someone's kid, its not about what you believe was safe. It's about what the parent of said kid thought was safe. That is to say, if some parent thought it was unsafe (like say, a coach boat with a better viewpoint? Perhaps that was the reason for the profanity?), then I would suggest you didn't do enough to exaggerate the safeness. (Sorry, I can't think of another way to phrase it)

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try not to set your course at the harbor opening...only fisherman can take up space in the harbor opening...

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What are those parents thinking letting their kids sail in open water with other boats around. they should all sail in 4 foot deep lakes with nets around like the trampolines. 

BTW taking into account how telephoto lenses shorten distances, this doesn't look to bad an action for any competent skipper 

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Seems like laying out a football field on a baseball diamond and playing both games simultaneously.

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2 minutes ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Seems like laying out a football field on a baseball diamond and playing both games simultaneously.

More laying out two baseball diamonds so that they share 2nd base, and then simultaneously playing tball on one, and an adult rec league on the other.

 

 

 

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As you all know the racing rules apply to ALL boats racing, even if they are competing in different events.  One of those kids should have yelled "Protest" at the guy, come in and file a protest. (of course the downwind port tack boats have no rights, but the downwind starboard tack boats have rights over the big port tack boat).

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51 minutes ago, Rawhide said:

this doesn't look to bad an action for any competent skipper 

There's a key word in there somewhere. Any guesses?

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32 minutes ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

As you all know the racing rules apply to ALL boats racing, even if they are competing in different events.  One of those kids should have yelled "Protest" at the guy, come in and file a protest. (of course the downwind port tack boats have no rights, but the downwind starboard tack boats have rights over the big port tack boat).

What are they going to protest about? the bad man in the big bad boat scared me? Do you see anything in that photo which indicates any of those kids had to or actually did alter course. all I see are a bunch of kids racing each other not caring about the yacht. just more SA clickbait.

The real issue is whether he had his AIS transmitting 

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1 hour ago, Rawhide said:

What are those parents thinking letting their kids sail in open water with other boats around. they should all sail in 4 foot deep lakes with nets around like the trampolines. 

BTW taking into account how telephoto lenses shorten distances, this doesn't look to bad an action for any competent skipper 

You race trampolines with nets around them? Kudos on the skills. 

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Well this about says it all (from the DIYC Jan 12/13 race results):

 

Racer/Cruiser (8 boats) (top)
Series Standing - 2 races scored

Information is provisional and subject to modification
Regatta results last updated: Sunday, January 13, 2019 3:10:12 PM CDT
Click on race number to view detailed race information.

Pos Sail   Boat   Rating Skipper Yacht Club    1   2    Total Pos
1  
12564   Team Effort   177   Tom Turton   DIYC     2   1     3  
1  
2  
48   Prime Plus   96   Mark Requa   Boca Ciega YC     1   3     4  
2  
3  
43620   Wing-it   126   Michael & Lesa Doyle   Davis Island Yacht Club     4   2     6  
3  
4  
60740   Sacred Cow   78   Dave German   DIYC     3   5     8  
4  
5  
038   Mi Sueno   120   Ron Kinney   SPYC & SPSA     5   4     9  
5  
6  
1   BLUE HERON   103   RUSSELL HOADLEY   DAVIS ISLAND YACHT CLUB     6   6     12  
6  
7  
007   Esperanza   138   Ralph Stoddard   DIYC     9/DNF   7     16  
7  
8  
39511   Wired   42   Stefan Achilles   DIYC     9/DSQ   9/DSQ     18  
8  

 

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1 hour ago, OutofOffice said:

I hear you, and I'll have to take your word that you were there and can speak to the matter. I will just add one thing.

Sometimes, especially when it comes to someone's kid, its not about what you believe was safe. It's about what the parent of said kid thought was safe. That is to say, if some parent thought it was unsafe (like say, a coach boat with a better viewpoint? Perhaps that was the reason for the profanity?), then I would suggest you didn't do enough to exaggerate the safeness. (Sorry, I can't think of another way to phrase it)

That’s a perfectly reasonable view...assuming the parents are informed and reasonable. Unfortunately many parents are neither. I experience this both skiing and sailing. I exercise my judgement and then add an extra margin of safety given children involved and the risk they may do something unexpected and an extra margin in case I’ve miscalculated... I’ve never had issues with parents who can helm or ski.

If an uniformed and unreasonable parent then wants more...well they can fuck themselves and take their kids to someplace no one else is around like a padded room in their basement.

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1 hour ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

As you all know the racing rules apply to ALL boats racing, even if they are competing in different events.  One of those kids should have yelled "Protest" at the guy, come in and file a protest. (of course the downwind port tack boats have no rights, but the downwind starboard tack boats have rights over the big port tack boat).

Why should they have yelled protest. If they felt their rights had been infringed sure, but we’ve got a witness to the contrary.

Lot’s of lynch mob going on here. I find smokeandoakum credible / more credible than any other source of info on this. Seems like if there had been a protest smoke could have been an exonerating witness for the defense.

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It's just one more argument for the mandatory reintroduction of yardarms, so that skippers like these can be strung up by the nuts from them.

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1 hour ago, Rawhide said:

 just more SA clickbait.

It never ends.

S.

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6 hours ago, Editor said:

port.jpg

This appears to be dicky no matter the sitch, and while we don't exactly know, here is what Anarchist Liz said about it:

Hi, this is the second image recently taken Jan 12 on Tampa Bay at an Opti Regatta. The negligent adult skipper plowed through the clearly marked Opti race course no sign of safety. He also yelled obscenities at the children (ages 8-12) telling them to get the F%$# out of the way.

Please note he is also on Port tack. Regardless, he had the choice to stay clear like all of the other large boats and chose not to. There are several upset parents about this and I thought if I shared it here you may have advise how to spread the word for better safety on the water. This behavior is not acceptable I'd like to hear what y'all think. 

Pitchforks and burning torches time?

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3 hours ago, OutofOffice said:

 

Huh? Is there a picture I'm not seeing?

Untitled.jpg.82d886dcdcd0dee6a3fe9c7f7d9463ae.jpg

Maybe my depth perception is off (I am getting up there in age) but that doesn't quite appear to be "navigated safely through the fleet". 19039 looks like he's going to bounce off the stbd bow. Kid's probably scrambling for his praddle.

The danger of a long telephoto lens, A very good example of why most good juris are dubious about long range photo evidence.

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5 hours ago, Parma said:

Tampa Bay is widely very shallow so maybe the skip was doing all he could to both avoid the optis and not run aground. I'd really like to see a chart of where the incident occurred before making any judgement. You all should too.

If it’s that restricted in draught and space to go, maybe a time and distance course would be an idea?  Or some fucking common sense and spatial awareness. 

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Quote

I think someone cheaped out on their headsail. Hey bro, 'tape drive' called from 2002 and they want their fiber layout back.

The 1860s called and want their flag and freed slaves back.

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2 hours ago, Glenn McCarthy said:

As you all know the racing rules apply to ALL boats racing, even if they are competing in different events.  One of those kids should have yelled "Protest" at the guy, come in and file a protest. (of course the downwind port tack boats have no rights, but the downwind starboard tack boats have rights over the big port tack boat).

This happened years ago during an Admiral cup training race and a local dinghy week race. International hnown helmsman told to tack or else by a 12-14 year old. Big boat tacked away. 

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2 hours ago, Rawhide said:

What are they going to protest about? the bad man in the big bad boat scared me? Do you see anything in that photo which indicates any of those kids had to or actually did alter course. all I see are a bunch of kids racing each other not caring about the yacht. just more SA clickbait.

The real issue is whether he had his AIS transmitting 

Gone quiet over at the WOXI bar?

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1 hour ago, smokeandoakum said:

Don’t think Wired was DSQed due to this incident. She was Sailing in a division the boats rating does not allow her to compete in. This was not cheating. Everybody knew going in. He couldn’t sail the racing division but he wanted to sail even if he wasn’t scored. 

And that makes it ok?? Out fucking around on a cruise/trial etc and fucking up other people’s racing? 

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21 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

The danger of a long telephoto lens, A very good example of why most good juris are dubious about long range photo evidence.

But what is your take on it? Tricky yes, but it doesn’t look good in anyway regardless of the the rules. He may have been racing. 

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38 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

The danger of a long telephoto lens, A very good example of why most good juris are dubious about long range photo evidence.

Both those kids are looking forward, shows how concerned they are. 

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3 minutes ago, Rawhide said:

Both those kids are looking forward, shows how concerned they are. 

Out of curiosity, what age are they and what level?  They may not be experienced enough to look round and see a big boat and relative speed. 

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clickbait perhaps but the first click, that of the camera shutter produced a dramatic shot.

It is good to see the SA lynch mob mentality is still alive and well. The thread so far reminds me of a B movie western with half the town shouting hang 'em high with just the preacher and drug store owner trying to calm things down. A good jury would say of that shot 'inconclusive, what else you got?'

Someone up-thread said they were heading to a mark out of shot to the right. So they were racing too.

Were they aware of their situation being on port tack? Well the helm is to leeward, not usual and there is a crew member standing up on the port sidedeck keeping a look forward and to windward, again standing not normal (and not fast) . It does appear they knew what they were doing and taking care threading their way through.

Then who plonked down a dinghy course round or close to a usual laid course turning mark. The 'squad' type official often seem to think they own the water.

The bad language? Does anyone know for sure it came from the big boat or was it a coach (they are the "professionals"  after all, what would a mere amateur know) or was it an Oppie Parent rather than a coach, they can be pretty aggressive too you know.

We all need to know that none of us own the water, none of have an exclusive lease on a particular piece of the sea.

I have taken many photos that, through a 500mm lens, looks scarily close due to the warped perspective only to realise when I take the camera away from my face that they were not so close after all. The human eye has a perspective of around 50mm by the way which is why 35mm SLR cameras used to be sold with a "Standard Lens" of that focal length. 

Just stirring the pot :-)

SS

 

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6 hours ago, smokeandoakum said:

... I was yards away when this happened and I’m just out of the picture frame. ... Being yards away from the incident, I can tell you that Wired maneuvered through the Optimist fleet safely.  ...

So the only one on this thread who seems able to speak to this authoritatively says no issue.

If anarchist Liz speaks up she may have a compelling different narrative. So far her perspective is provided hearsay via the Editor. A story that is somewhat compromised by initially having two pictures of the same situation that actually showed two different boats and possibly two different events.

In the absence of actual facts, Shanghaisailor has it right...lynch mob.

13 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

...

It is good to see the SA lynch mob mentality is still alive and well. The thread so far reminds me of a B movie western with half the town shouting hang 'em high with just the preacher and drug store owner trying to calm things down. A good jury would say of that shot 'inconclusive, what else you got?'

...

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, footlong said:

I don't think either of those boats is a Farr 395

Wired and No Limit are 395’s.

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9 hours ago, Editor said:

He also yelled obscenities at the children (ages 8-12) telling them to get the F%$# out of the way.

This is why we shouldn't have children...

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4 hours ago, hobot said:

It never ends.

S.

Is that someone taking a pee off the back of that boat?

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5 hours ago, mad said:

But what is your take on it? Tricky yes, but it doesn’t look good in anyway regardless of the the rules. He may have been racing. 

Hi Mad

As I said trouble with a long telephoto lens. However, as Rawhide said the kids don't appear to be looking back in panic. Also if you look at the space between the bow of the big boat and the Oppie you will see what appears to be two wave crests. If they are then the big boat was not as near as the photo initially suggests.

As I said why a good jury tends to disregard photos and video as evidence, it is very hard to judge the foreshortening effect.

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I hope people are starting to see (KC 375 for one) the sorts of challenges a good jury has when an incident - or even a non incident -  is reported to them.

Different perspectives? , bad language and who used it - for example did anyone see the lip sync to the 'f' word on the big boat or was it actually a coach (remember they are subject to the rules as well since 01/01/2017) Did any Optimist have to take avoiding action? They may be small but they have no greater rights than any other boat.

I would hope the big boat being on port and capable of inflicting severe damage to boats &/or sailors smaller and less experienced than they are, are being careful.

In my view (from just one telling photograph) this is evidenced by the helm being on the lee side when the windward side would be better/faster if there were no other boats around PLUS the skipper has positioned a crew member standing on the weather side deck for a better view ahead.

CASE DISMISSED!

My biggest question would be (and I may be repeating myself) is why did the Optimist race management team set their course so close to what was a permanently paid racing mark from another club/race. 

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^^^ This.  There is shared responsibility - a big boat owner has to be responsible for picking a safe course around the kids, but the race committee has to pick a course that won't cause conflicts.

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I was out on the water on our powerboat watching my 10yr in this Green Fleet regatta.  I've sailed from jr sailing to college to owning M24's competing in many national and international events.  I've seen my share of jack-assery on the water compared to most Opti parents and figure myself a decent judge of WTF moments.  We saw Wired, a Farr 395 (Sailing in the cruising fleet, I think his boat outpaces his talent) leading the pack of Beneteau's (Not by much) heading towards the fleet on port.  He took a small hitch to starboard about 150 yards out from the course, the other parent sailors and I on the boat were talking great, he's popping around.  After about 1 min on starboard he flops back onto port through the center of the Green Fleet course.  Now the Green Fleet course is only about 200-250 yards long, not a big one and easily avoidable for the "Rally Distance Race" around the bay they were running.  The coach boats that were all on that side of the course tried to make the course known more by being "wide."  Wired still comes blazing through and yells directly at one coach, "Get out of our fucking way you are in a powerboat, you have to stay out of our way" and continues to drop F-Bombs around as he sailed on port through the fleet.  Another coach boat parent (DIYC Member and sailor who was close to windward) nicely asked him something to the effect of "Where are you going, what are you doing"  He grumbled off through the fleet and away on his distance race in a race boat in the cruising fleet. I was very tempted to just run in front of him with my powerboat for awhile gassing him with disturbed water, but the adult in me took back over.

He was not in an dangerous situation with the fleet that put any kids in immediate danger.  However, Wired could have easily sailing another 150 yards and avoiding the course all together, not taking a deliberate hitch back through the course of 8+ year old Green Fleet kids that are just learning to sail, but apparently it's his America's Cup.  He could have not yelled F-Bombs at coaches and around kids (Only I can swear in front of my kids). 

Wired was DSQ'd for the event for sailing in the cruising division, Karma's a bitch I guess.  If I was DIYC I would have a chat with the guy and make him sit out for his next club event and then have him back in the fleet, Apparently the racing fleet.  Summary, the dude is either a clueless, classless sailor or just a dick.  Maybe a combo of all.

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13 hours ago, KC375 said:

assuming the parents are informed and reasonable. Unfortunately many parents are neither.

It's funny because the parents are probably thinking the exact same think about skippers. We've all seen them...As even Smokeandoakum said, he had reason to worry as well. I refer back to my point about "exaggerating safety".

15 hours ago, smokeandoakum said:

I too was worried and hammered it, on a full plane, to Wired.

Without some charts or something of the area, I have to be objective and say the skipper is fine. As my mother-in-law is fond of saying, "but did you die?"

My subjective opinion (sans evidence he was unable to maneuver) is he's inconsiderate and likely not someone I'd chose to sail with. It's an Opti course, and all the BS that comes with it. Not the least of which are a bunch of high strung, worrisome parents. Alter course. Would he demand rights if trading tacks with said opti's? Give a little extra.

 

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18 hours ago, smokeandoakum said:

First of all, the second photo (linked in the OP) isn't even remotely involved in the regatta.  Don't know where that photo came from but I don't even think it's Tampa Bay.  Look at the scratch sheet  for yourselves, no boat of that type competed in the regatta.  Also you can make out one of the optimist sail numbers and that's not a sail number listed in the optimist regatta.  This photo appeared in a FB post on the incident, since removed.  Could have been a mistake, could be a troll.

Second - Allen Thomas sold the boat long ago – Allen, a great guy, was not involved.

Third – My son was sailing in the Optimist regatta; I was yards away when this happened and I’m just out of the picture frame.  Wired was also racing on a leg that took them to a fixed mark that  the Opti RC set their course around.  DIYC maintains that mark and it's been there for years.  Being yards away from the incident, I can tell you that Wired maneuvered through the Optimist fleet safely.  The photo looks worse than it really was. 

There was an interpersonal altercation between a one of Wired’s crew and a coach boat.  I did not hear what was said.  I was on the other side of Wired asking her crew what mark they were going to.  By this time I was sure Wired was going to safely navigate her way through the Opti fleet but I wanted to know where the rest of the KB fleet was headed because they were all headed our way.   I think I know who did the shouting on Wired - I'd be surprised if they cussed at the children - but it's possible they overheard the heated exchange.  

Please don't bring reasonableness and maturity into this discussion. You're just disrupting all the sensationalism, knee-jerking, jumping to conclusions, and lynch mob mentality.

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17 hours ago, JohnMB said:

More laying out two baseball diamonds so that they share 2nd base, and then simultaneously playing tball on one, and an adult rec league on the other.

 

 

 

ok, this gives me an idea.  We used to have an annual softball game with kegs for the bases (did it for 3 years). lotsa fun, usually 3-6 people per base. huge scores, pure mayhem and fun.  Adding a second game, playing in the opposite direction seems to me like a fun addition.

what could possibly go wrong?

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So based on usasail....

- Wired took action to navigate safely through the fleet.

-Coaches in powerboats moved to get in his way, creating a contentious situation.

Have I got that wrong?

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Here's a great example of what can happen to depth of field with a telephoto. In this shot invariably called a 'stretch', 'dolly zoom', or 'vertigo effect', the camera dollies back while the focus puller zooms in, bringing the background in closer, but keeping the framing of the shot roughly the same. 

Good thing these guys don't have a kid in the opti fleet!

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, solosailor said:

The 1860s called and want their flag and freed slaves back.

+1 beat me to it, nicely done 

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So, I'm in the camp of making comments without evidence. I will say this. How on earth were the Optis any where close to the same race course as the big boats. It's not like they were on a tiny little inland lake. It's Tampa Bay FFS. Keep the kids and the grown ups seperate. Lazy IMHO...

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17 minutes ago, Jubblies said:

So, I'm in the camp of making comments without evidence. I will say this. How on earth were the Optis any where close to the same race course as the big boats. It's not like they were on a tiny little inland lake. It's Tampa Bay FFS. Keep the kids and the grown ups seperate. Lazy IMHO...

 

As stated somewhere in the thread, two different YC's had set up overlapping courses.  Unintentional, no doubt, but one should have had some idea of where the other area clubs are going to be racing, in advance, to avoid such conflicts......

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2 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

As stated somewhere in the thread, two different YC's had set up overlapping courses.  Unintentional, no doubt, but one should have had some idea of where the other area clubs are going to be racing, in advance, to avoid such conflicts......

Yep!

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

As stated somewhere in the thread, two different YC's had set up overlapping courses.  Unintentional, no doubt, but one should have had some idea of where the other area clubs are going to be racing, in advance, to avoid such conflicts......

 

Tampa Yacht.jpg

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19 hours ago, mad said:

Out of curiosity, what age are they and what level?  They may not be experienced enough to look round and see a big boat and relative speed. 

Hard to pick age, but they look competent to me. the fleet is close, good sail trim, all the boats healed to windward, correct fore and aft trim, nice line into the mark, not what I see in the green fleet over here. 

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6 hours ago, Thistle3868 said:

So based on usasail....

- Wired took action to navigate safely through the fleet.

-Coaches in powerboats moved to get in his way, creating a contentious situation.

Have I got that wrong?

Seems a reasonable summary to me. And if you are carefully picking your way through a junior fleet the last thing you need is the distraction of some random powerboat shouting at you.

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Everything here points to a bunch of precious and entitled Opti parents and their coaches behaving like diks over a non incident. 

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3 minutes ago, Rawhide said:

Everything here points to a bunch of precious and entitled Opti parents and their coaches behaving like diks over a non incident. 

Yep....kids thought it was pretty cool I imagine....I would have

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The original Charity Regatta in Shanghai over 10years ago had all boats on the same course. The SI's had a special condition in them. "Optimists had right of way, even when they are on port tack."

The kids thought it was awesome being in amongst the bigger boats and the grown ups thought it was fun too and Autistic kids in Shanghai benefitted enormously from the sailing community PULLING TOGETHER  for their benefit.

I also remember from my days sailing on the Forth (Scotland) there existed the "Forth Yacht Clubs Association" where the next season's events were coordinated to avoid scheduling conflicts and if I remember correctly there were 22 clubs in the association and things got sorted. Surprised that a sailing area like Florida doesn't have a similar thing. That would have avoided all of the above.

As a sport we should be working together not bitching at each other.

As I said earlier, case dismissed and coach boats should remember they are not umpires, in fact they shouldn't even have been on the race course if the SI's had been written properly.

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45 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

The original Charity Regatta in Shanghai over 10years ago had all boats on the same course. The SI's had a special condition in them. "Optimists had right of way, even when they are on port tack."

The kids thought it was awesome being in amongst the bigger boats and the grown ups thought it was fun too and Autistic kids in Shanghai benefitted enormously from the sailing community PULLING TOGETHER  for their benefit.

I also remember from my days sailing on the Forth (Scotland) there existed the "Forth Yacht Clubs Association" where the next season's events were coordinated to avoid scheduling conflicts and if I remember correctly there were 22 clubs in the association and things got sorted. Surprised that a sailing area like Florida doesn't have a similar thing. That would have avoided all of the above.

As a sport we should be working together not bitching at each other.

As I said earlier, case dismissed and coach boats should remember they are not umpires, in fact they shouldn't even have been on the race course if the SI's had been written properly.

Holy Feces SS, awesome solution, cipher sharing the water.  

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2 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Yep....kids thought it was pretty cool I imagine....I would have

SB aqua, Bitd, We were in a SSA race headed to the port/ N range mark with Celerity and Stampede blasting over our Ranger 26, ....... No Opti, but I was 13 and thought they were Gods.   Prob 1973-4

Edited by dolphinmaster
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9 hours ago, dolphinmaster said:

Holy Feces SS, awesome solution, cipher sharing the water.  

It's not the only place to do it, On the Norfolk broads every club has a race / events  committee or officer , each club's committee chairman goes to the "Norfolk and Suffolk Boating Association" events committee, to discuss when events are held.

Even if they are not sharing the water, they co-ordinate not having competing big events. There are 55 clubs and associations who have input , which includes some owners associations and some charitable trusts that take people out sailing or Motorboating.

So normally  the week before Our annual regatta week, it's Wroxham's regatta week, the week after it's normally North Norfolk week(several clubs on the sea), and Thurne regatta., It goes on throughout the Summer. It's all detailed in http://www.thegreenbook.org.uk/

Though most of this years programme ( click on, diary dates)  has not been filled in yet, so there must be another meeting or two to go.

It is possible to race a sailing boat somewhere in the area every day from mid July to mid September. Looking at last years book (roughly the same as the web site but sent to every club member) that still meant with normal club racing you could have 14 different events on any weekend in the summer, and 4 in the winter.  In an area roughly   50 miles long by 20 wide

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5368601,0.5698292,9z

The area is roughly to the right of a straight line from the middle of the green bit on the north coast, to Lowestoft

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There is, too, the consideration that if you have to cross another race fleet its best to do it port tack so that you have to keep clear of everyone and minimise the effect on the other race.

Sometimes things go the other way. In the early days of foil Moths (2004) we in the Cherubs were sharing a champs in Portland Harbour with the Moths, so the downwind leg was full of boats at all sorts of angles and 15 to 20 knots. So the coach of the Dutch Cadet team, out training for an event the next week, chose to lead his charges upwind right through the middle of a race fleet doing speeds and angles they'd almost certainly never seen... A particularly foolish piece of entitlement thinking.

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4 hours ago, JimC said:

There is, too, the consideration that if you have to cross another race fleet its best to do it port tack so that you have to keep clear of everyone and minimise the effect on the other race.

Sometimes things go the other way. In the early days of foil Moths (2004) we in the Cherubs were sharing a champs in Portland Harbour with the Moths, so the downwind leg was full of boats at all sorts of angles and 15 to 20 knots. So the coach of the Dutch Cadet team, out training for an event the next week, chose to lead his charges upwind right through the middle of a race fleet doing speeds and angles they'd almost certainly never seen... A particularly foolish piece of entitlement thinking.

Well what do you expect - he was a coach ;-)

SS

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fuck

This is a great learning lesson for the kids. Be successful get the bigger boat or whatever and fuck all the little people. 

The parents should be thanking that boat owner. 

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