badlatitude

Oh, No! Mother is A Bigot

Recommended Posts

There's that word "choice" again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Never did get an answer on conversion therapy, especially for juveniles.  It's like Pray Away The Gay but more robust.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, d'ranger said:

Never did get an answer on conversion therapy, especially for juveniles.  It's like Pray Away The Gay but more robust.

Were you asking me?   if so - I don't have a good answer for that, I don't know enough about psychotherapy to know how to determine an appropriate approach.  Not personally knowing the proper way to address the conflict doesn't mean that the conflict isn't mental. 

The American Pyschiatric Association says: 

"The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5) provides for one overarching diagnosis of gender dysphoria with separate specific criteria for children and for adolescents and adults.

In adolescents and adults gender dysphoria diagnosis involves a difference between one’s experienced/expressed gender and assigned gender, and significant distress or problems functioning. It lasts at least six months and is shown by at least two of the following:

  1. A marked incongruence between one’s experienced/expressed gender and primary and/or secondary sex characteristics
  2. A strong desire to be rid of one’s primary and/or secondary sex characteristics
  3. A strong desire for the primary and/or secondary sex characteristics of the other gender
  4. A strong desire to be of the other gender
  5. A strong desire to be treated as the other gender
  6. A strong conviction that one has the typical feelings and reactions of the other gender" 

So - if the condition warrants mention in "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" - how does that make my opinion that the problem IS a mental disorder wrong?   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - if the condition warrants mention in "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" - how does that make my opinion that the problem IS a mental disorder wrong?  

Wasn't long ago that being gay got you a place in that book.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wondering if you have a problem with parents putting their kids into conversion therapy.  Since you don't seem very informed on this subject I suggest some reading - not much, just a few things. In fact try reading about Alan Turing.  If still interested you can continue.

Not possible or helpful to force anyone to accept something they don't agree with - and it goes both ways.  Forcing children into pseudoscience treatments I do have a problem with.  Not that long ago electro shock was used to make people better - in fact Townes van Zant had no recollection of his childhood having had that treatment.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Wasn't long ago that being gay got you a place in that book.

And the mention of Gender Dysphoria, which seems to bother "A Guy" so much, is very neutral and refers to people with gender dysphoria as wanting to "express their true selves".  It does NOT refer to dysphoria as "deviant"(per "A guy") or a disorder or an illness.  

It is a fact of life for a certain subset of our overall population, it has existed throughout human development and here's a message to "A guy":  What people do with and think about their bodies is their own business and integral to their own lives and just fucking learn to accept it as a variation on the human condition and shove your "deviant" thoughts into the murky recesses of your sad brain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

Just wondering if you have a problem with parents putting their kids into conversion therapy.  Since you don't seem very informed on this subject I suggest some reading - not much, just a few things. In fact try reading about Alan Turing.  If still interested you can continue.

Not possible or helpful to force anyone to accept something they don't agree with - and it goes both ways.  Forcing children into pseudoscience treatments I do have a problem with.  Not that long ago electro shock was used to make people better - in fact Townes van Zant had no recollection of his childhood having had that treatment.

I'll take a look at the Turing reference, and appreciate you offering it.  If I understand your point to be that "going to the witch doctor" isn't an effective way to treat cancer OR mental disorders? yeah - we're completely in agreement.   The counter to that is that I don't personally agree with treating a mental disorder as anything BUT a mental disorder. 

Let me share a parallel that I hope helps to better explain my perspective:   My wife and son work with kids on the Autism spectrum.  To be a "qualified volunteer", I've had to undergo some training in how to recognize meltdown triggers, coping techniques to de-escalate, and emergency resources.  Very basic - and those things don't qualify me to do anything more than have a peripheral understanding of some situations we might encounter in doing things w/autistic kids.    None of these accommodations include euphemisms for the disorder,  or a denial that it *is* a disorder.   All of the accommodations seek to help the kids enjoy activities with others, safely, while providing enough of an understanding to create an improved ability to help the autistic kids AND their non-spectrum classmates have an improved interaction.    Nobody pretends that the autistic kids don't need some special attention, nobody is castigated for having that recognition.  THAT is the difference - as it pertains to kids with gender conflicts?  It seems to me that anyone who disagrees with embracing those proclivities is painted as some kind of bigoted monster - and I don't think that's right.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

And the mention of Gender Dysphoria, which seems to bother "A Guy" so much, is very neutral and refers to people with gender dysphoria as wanting to "express their true selves".  It does NOT refer to dysphoria as "deviant"(per "A guy") or a disorder or an illness.  

It is a fact of life for a certain subset of our overall population, it has existed throughout human development and here's a message to "A guy":  What people do with and think about their bodies is their own business and integral to their own lives and just fucking learn to accept it as a variation on the human condition and shove your "deviant" thoughts into the murky recesses of your sad brain.

Of course - if someone "feels" something, that's more important than any physical reality, right?   Find someplace in anything I've said where I've suggested that these kids be castigated for their deviance. Hey - before you do that, why don't you post the textbook definition of deviance? The fact that you don't like it, that you don't "feel" it, doesn't change what it is. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Just wondering if you have a problem with parents putting their kids into conversion therapy.  Since you don't seem very informed on this subject I suggest some reading - not much, just a few things. In fact try reading about Alan Turing.  If still interested you can continue.

Not possible or helpful to force anyone to accept something they don't agree with - and it goes both ways.  Forcing children into pseudoscience treatments I do have a problem with.  Not that long ago electro shock was used to make people better - in fact Townes van Zant had no recollection of his childhood having had that treatment.

Just finished a quick review of Mr Turing - what point did you want to use his example to emphasize? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Just finished a quick review of Mr Turing - what point did you want to use his example to emphasize? 

Well, he was a hero of WWII and faced prison for being gay, accepted chemical castration to avoid going to prison. I see "conversion therapy" as not being much different and having it forced on juveniles as barbaric. It's been outlawed in 13 states.  That it is being done in the name of Christianity I find appalling. The attitudes of the school where Mrs. Pence is the segue back to topics such as this. Read up on the suicide rates of teens being subjected to the discrimination and harassment of these "good people".  If you still feel that sexual preferences are a choice I propose you do some studying as it's no more a choice than autism.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AGITC, I think you should reconsider your position on this topic. You’re losing me on this. If it makes a person happy, that’s a good thing, and in my view we have no real reason to castigate someone for their personal choices just because one doesn’t understand it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Sean said:

AGITC, I think you should reconsider your position on this topic. You’re losing me on this. If it makes a person happy, that’s a good thing, and in my view we have no real reason to castigate someone for their personal choices just because one doesn’t understand it.

There's that word "choices" again.  Cloaked in a generally reasonable statement, but it let's the underlying misunderstanding go uncorrected.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Sean said:

AGITC, I think you should reconsider your position on this topic. You’re losing me on this. If it makes a person happy, that’s a good thing, and in my view we have no real reason to castigate someone for their personal choices just because one doesn’t understand it.

Pressuring someone to change their views is not much more effective than praying away the gay. That's why I offered the Alan Turing example as a starting place - education is the answer to almost every problem. In my lifetime I have overcome my biases and prejudices to many things and will be the first to admit I still have a ways to go. What I can accept in theory I sometimes struggle with in practice. My first real eye opener was as a freshman in college and sitting next to black people more gifted than me. Thus the journey started.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

BJ had it right.  This thread has really shown Chessie's colors.   And they aren't pretty. 

"Christianity" has become a cover-up for so many horrible things - Anti Gay, Anti Native American, Anti Immigrant, Anti Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/etc, Pro profiteering, Pro Adultery, Pro Divorce, Teaching discrimination,  In favor of imprisonment of children.... so much hate and hypocrisy.   What would Jesus say? 

For that matter, what DID Jesus say about homosexuality?  Come on, Chessie, we're waiting!

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Christianity is an excuse for self righteous assholes to be just assholes

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And feel righteous about it.

I think a lot of people like Pence and his "Christian" elk are in for a big surprise when they get to their final destination.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

There's that word "choices" again.  Cloaked in a generally reasonable statement, but it let's the underlying misunderstanding go uncorrected.

Yeah, my bad. Poor choice of word. 

Live and let live. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

And feel righteous about it.

I think a lot of people like Pence and his "Christian" elk are in for a big surprise when they get to their final destination.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Sean said:

Yeah, my bad. Poor choice of word. 

Live and let live. 

'xactly

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/19/2019 at 4:16 AM, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I think you're ignoring the right of the school to employ individuals that embody their values, and one of those is to not embrace deviant behavior.

Having a sexual preference for the same gender is not "deviant". Like it or not, homosexuality is not considered by medical or psychological authorities as "deviant behaviour". That's a religious thing and it's just as wrong as ye mormons of old refusing to accept black people because they believed black skin was the mark of god's curse on them.

 

Quote

Whether people want to admit it or not, choosing to live an LGBTQ lifestyle is a decision, and someone who'd choose that path isn't going to be a good fit in a christian academy.

Living any "lifestyle" is a decision. It's a decision to live a straight, conservative, religious one. It is not a decision to BE homosexual anymore than it is a decision to be black. 

 

Quote

it's a private institution, and they can do what they want.  Don't like it?  Don't go.    Would you approve your school hiring a flat-earther as a science teacher?  

No, but that's because the flat-earth hypothesis has been disproven. It's not science. Being gay has nothing to do with that. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So - if the condition warrants mention in "The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders" - how does that make my opinion that the problem IS a mental disorder wrong?  

Wasn't long ago that being gay got you a place in that book.

That was going to be my next argument.

Whilst I came to this thread thinking I was going to correct Left Shift, I'm sorry to find he was correct - Chesapeake's beliefs as he states them are homophobic and planting his flag on that hill to defend the idea that being gay is a choice and deviant is indeed something I only expect from homophobic people. That he isn't out there marching in rallies demanding his homophobic beliefs be enshrined in legislation doesn't change the fact it is homophobic.

Like a few others, I'm saddened by the revelations about someone I thought more open-minded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

An exceedingly interesting medical phenomenon to consider, when pontificating on "lifestyle choices" and "gender dysphoria," are the rare cases of human chimeras. Whether by errors during fertilization when two zygotes merge in utero, or when one fraternal twin is "absorbed" by another, cases of male and female cell lines within one human are well documented. Paternity tests reveal a parent is their son's aunt or uncle, and not necessarily gender accurate to their driver's license!

In these fascinating cases, organs which develop from the two cell lines will carry complete sets of DNA which are from two individuals. Brains may be of one cell line, for example, and genitalia from the other, and in these cases the brain most often determine their "lifestyle choices" while the external genitalia will let folks like Chessie know the real answer.

After pregnancy, and present in measurable quantities until death, women carry small traces of their child's DNA within their tissues. This "microchimerism" is of unclear significance, but truly, women are fundamentally changed by having kids, to the point of carrying Y chromosomes within their bodies after having boys. 

A friend of mine just let me know that his child has just declared his sexuality as "deviant" according to Chessie. Gosh, I really like this kid and think he's brave and insightful and much more interesting than most. I better get started on fearing him, shunning him & judging him. Too bad, since he could have been such an asset to our country and our world. Let's push him into the corner and keep him out of the military & close off other doors to him. That will protect the rest of us from his deviancy, and his not being able to pursue happiness to the same extent as other Americans is just one more manifestation of how great our country is. 

But you know, I'd rather confront his story the way I confront Christians, or gays, or blacks or left handed conservatives. With an open mind and a smile. Much easier to look in the mirror in the morning and trust I fit into society as well. 

You literally ARE choosing your own deviant lifestyle & mindset, Chessie, it's just got more hate and fear in it than I'd be comfortable living with.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Bent Sailor said:

That was going to be my next argument.

Whilst I came to this thread thinking I was going to correct Left Shift, I'm sorry to find he was correct - Chesapeake's beliefs as he states them are homophobic and planting his flag on that hill to defend the idea that being gay is a choice and deviant is indeed something I only expect from homophobic people. That he isn't out there marching in rallies demanding his homophobic beliefs be enshrined in legislation doesn't change the fact it is homophobic.

Like a few others, I'm saddened by the revelations about someone I thought more open-minded. 

I don't see Ches as homophobic, but alt-sex phobic. Biology shows sexual orientation spans the rainbow of options, in far more variety than is shown in humans. Being able to change your sex to fulfill your role in the tribe is one of the many options in nature.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

I don't see Ches as homophobic, but alt-sex phobic.

He says that being gay/lesbian is deviant and a choice. He later equates said deviance with that of paedophiles. That's homophobic. He might also be "alt-sex phobic", but it's not a mutually exclusive term.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hesitant about this, but just for "A guy" to ponder, I will relate a family story about what he considers "deviance" and the harm opinions like his can cause.

My uncle was a WWII fighter pilot based on the Wasp.  Saw lots of action and came back with medals and started a family, started a successful corporate career and he had two kids, boy and girl.  Although the son, my cousin, got married, had a kid and also had a successful career as a college professor, my uncle was always "disappointed" in him.  They just kept their distance.  When my cousin was 50 or so, he came out as transgender, had surgery and became female, and became much, much happier.  

Three interesting things happened.  I know it doesn't always work this way, but this case did.

First:  My cousin and his, now her, wife stayed happily married and enjoyed each other's company as very good friends.  My cousin's daughter was delighted to see her father happy and just went on with her life.  

Second:  His dad, my uncle, had an epiphany and realized that his "son" had been born in the wrong body and he really had two daughters.  It all made sense to him and he and his new daughter came to a very welcome understanding of what had been "wrong" with their expectations and interactions.  Our family gatherings were happier.

Third:  They lived in a very conservative state and there was much to do about marriage being only between a man and a woman.  They had been married for 30 years and now found themselves, the most law abiding pair I'd ever met, by default in an illegal same sex marriage and in violation of state law.  The irony was not lost on any of the family, we all found it hilarious.  But in fact, they were at some potential risk of things like not being able to attend to each other in hospitals and to make end of life decisions.  That, fortunately, has been resolved properly.

If anyone one can find an ounce of "deviance" in this story, the fault lies solely within themselves.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

You raise an excellent point, Steamers - and I agree that what they decide to do is their choice, and not mine.  You'll note that I never once have said that I should project my ideas of propriety to prevent anyone from doing whatever they think will make themselves happy.  That said - I question that the source of their unhappiness is their plumbing, and my personal opinion is that that's not what needs to change to help them achieve self acceptance.  

  

 

What is the basis of that opinion? Have you ever walked a mile in a trans person's moccasins to draw that conclusion? Do you have some sort of scientific evidence that we are not aware of? Or is it something else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Sean said:

AGITC, I think you should reconsider your position on this topic. You’re losing me on this. If it makes a person happy, that’s a good thing, and in my view we have no real reason to castigate someone for their personal choices just because one doesn’t understand it.

I don't think his position is such that they should be castigated, per se.

It seems more to be that if they "choose" to pursue their deviant "lifestyle", the fallout from that is on them, not society. Society has no responsibility to accommodate "deviants".

Perhaps I am mis-reading him, there is a whole lot of ignorance on the topic to unpack.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Kirwan said:

BJ had it right.  This thread has really shown Chessie's colors.   And they aren't pretty. 

"Christianity" has become a cover-up for so many horrible things - Anti Gay, Anti Native American, Anti Immigrant, Anti Muslim/Hindu/Buddhist/etc, Pro profiteering, Pro Adultery, Pro Divorce, Teaching discrimination,  In favor of imprisonment of children.... so much hate and hypocrisy.   What would Jesus say? 

For that matter, what DID Jesus say about homosexuality?  Come on, Chessie, we're waiting!

Jesus was strangely silent on homosexuality. He seemed far more concerned that everyone love each other and not judge.

The anti-gay stuff is mostly old testament - the books that tell you you can't have tattoos, shrimp, ham & cheese sandwiches, or cotton-poly blend underwear.

The New Testament anti-gay stuff was pretty much all on Paul. Who was an odd little dude with his own issues with women - being the guy that fostered lot of Christianity's crap treatment of women.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:
3 hours ago, Ishmael said:

I don't see Ches as homophobic, but alt-sex phobic.

He says that being gay/lesbian is deviant and a choice. He later equates said deviance with that of paedophiles. That's homophobic. He might also be "alt-sex phobic", but it's not a mutually exclusive term.

I've always hated the term homophobic, as it implies 'fear'.

I do not think fear is the issue here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jesus was pretty chill about hanging with 12 young dudes in togas, I dont think it would be unfair to opine that he had slight preference for cock

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pederasty was a part of Greek culture that had to be addressed by the early Christians. When coupled with the multiple versions of "love/lust/passion" in Greek language and society (and the difficulty of translating such things), I'm convinced that the context of those passages has pretty much been obliterated. English doesn't have the equivalent nuance without using a lot more words.  This obliquely tackled in many of the Greek myths and plays and how those have been translated and how much work has to go into context.

I'm further convinced that the pivot to a harsher interpretation is much more of an internal admonishment to the clergy than an outward expression to the congregation.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, d'ranger said:

Well, he was a hero of WWII and faced prison for being gay, accepted chemical castration to avoid going to prison. I see "conversion therapy" as not being much different and having it forced on juveniles as barbaric. It's been outlawed in 13 states.  That it is being done in the name of Christianity I find appalling. The attitudes of the school where Mrs. Pence is the segue back to topics such as this. Read up on the suicide rates of teens being subjected to the discrimination and harassment of these "good people".  If you still feel that sexual preferences are a choice I propose you do some studying as it's no more a choice than autism.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - and I tend to agree with you as it pertains to "conversion therapy" - I've read some on the topic, but, not enough to consider myself well informed.  What I have read looks a lot like wishful thinking, and not based in any kind of sound psychological practice.   As to the choice?   Sorry - as much as so many of you want to proclaim such things as joyous events to be celebrated, I don't.  Contrary to the multiple, absolutely baseless assertions claimed by so many in this discussion, I haven't ever suggested that the folks who felt compelled to make these choices be castigated, discriminated against, or treated poorly.   Conversely, I don't think that those decision warrant any special dispensation, or "protected class" status either.   I'm not homophobic ( i can hear the jeers from the narrow minded, accepting of everything except opinions opposite their own crowd now) - but that doesn't mean that I feel compelled to embrace it, any more than I would any other decision.   Philly - you're a rabid, conservative hating Liberal - but i love ya anyway.  

I also don't think that it's appropriate for pre-pubescent kids to be identified by "their sexuality" - they're KIDS - they shouldn't HAVE a sexuality beyond the normal interest in who's got what and how things work, and it disturbs me greatly to witness behavior that I think is encouraging am inappropriate focus on juvenile sexuality.  

I appreciate everyone's comments, even the small minded keyword rabid responses - they're quite telling, and help everyone see who's interested in discussion and understanding, and who's not.    Pile on - and if there are more nuggets of interesting perspective to share ?  Please do. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

I don't think his position is such that they should be castigated, per se.

It seems more to be that if they "choose" to pursue their deviant "lifestyle", the fallout from that is on them, not society. Society has no responsibility to accommodate "deviants".

Perhaps I am mis-reading him, there is a whole lot of ignorance on the topic to unpack.

BJ - I feel like I owe you a thanks, because you've quite succinctly said what I think, with one small exception:  Anyone who's going thru any kind of internal conflict ought to have someplace to go for help, within the bounds of our current awareness, but, you're right, that I think society at large ISN'T responsible for providing dispensation and accomodation, anymore than I expect you to provide accommodations for any of my specific foibles.  

As to the "whole lot of ignorance to unpack"?  I'm gonna ignore the jab and ask you to expand on that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I'm not homophobic ( i can hear the jeers from the narrow minded, accepting of everything except opinions opposite their own crowd now) - but that doesn't mean that I feel compelled to embrace it, any more than I would any other decision.   Philly - you're a rabid, conservative hating Liberal - but i love ya anyway.  

Firstly, it’s not true “Conservatives” I hate, but Trumpettes and I hate that Conservatives enable him to play with the levers of power. 

Secondly, you didn’t respond to my post in the slightest, especially as regards to instances when the genitalia simply do not reflect the state of mind of the person. 

Just as you never made a decision to be straight, neither do these people ever make a decision to chose the DNA in their brain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Firstly, it’s not true “Conservatives” I hate, but Trumpettes and I hate that Conservatives enable him to play with the levers of power. 

Secondly, you didn’t respond to my post in the slightest, especially as regards to instances when the genitalia simply do not reflect the state of mind of the person. 

Just as you never made a decision to be straight, neither do these people ever make a decision to chose the DNA in their brain.

Sorry - I honestly thought I'd already stated my opinion on the matter:  I think that if the mind doesn't match the plumbing, that it's not the plumbing that's at issue.  Less flippantly - I think that the difference comes down to what we think should be adjusted in these situations - the internal perspective, or the physiology.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Former neighbor is gay.  We were discussing how some view his sexual orientation, and how some call it a "choice". 

He asked "Given all of the discrimination, hate, and violence gays face, if being gay is really a choice, why would I CHOOSE to face that?"

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Former neighbor is gay.  We were discussing how some view his sexual orientation, and how some call it a "choice". 

He asked "Given all of the discrimination, hate, and violence gays face, if being gay is really a choice, why would I CHOOSE to face that?"

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

What "compulsions" are you hinting at that would get the same type of discrimination, hate, and violence visited upon gays?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sorry - I honestly thought I'd already stated my opinion on the matter:  I think that if the mind doesn't match the plumbing, that it's not the plumbing that's at issue.  Less flippantly - I think that the difference comes down to what we think should be adjusted in these situations - the internal perspective, or the physiology.  

So the male brain should be taught to act female? The soul resides in the genitalia?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
37 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Former neighbor is gay.  We were discussing how some view his sexual orientation, and how some call it a "choice". 

He asked "Given all of the discrimination, hate, and violence gays face, if being gay is really a choice, why would I CHOOSE to face that?"

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

Like an obsession with gunzz?

Seriously, we're lucky to be living in an age with such advanced medical care (and the promise of more and better on the horizon, if we don't burn the bitch down). All the advanced stuff like cancer care on the cellular level, and heart/lung transplants, make switching genitalia seem pretty easy. It comes with the package, if you'll pardon the phrase.

But brain tampering is a whole nother matter. Would you seriously suggest that a person who is unhappy with their original genitals get their brain modified instead of their genitals?

To put it politely, that is very unsound advice IMHO

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

Compulsion?

I'll assume that you're heterosexual. Is that a compulsion too?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And does society owe it to non-straight persons to accommodate their reality?

Well, if they get a vote, the answer is probably, “well, we accommodate straights, they can accommodate us.” 

Seriously, Chessy, the cat is out of the bag. LGBTQ is on a spectrum of normal human behavior not subject to your judgement. You are just engaging in discriminatory thought processes.

I can’t really put it differently, and I really think you need to stop calling it a “choice” and that they are “deviant.”.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Bus Driver said:
2 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

What "compulsions" are you hinting at that would get the same type of discrimination, hate, and violence visited upon gays?

Guy - still waiting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Guy - still waiting.

Sorry Bus - been in a meeting for the past couple hours. There are several compulsions in which the owners are treated poorly - but, that's not really germane to the discussion, is it?  I'm not arguing at all that those compulsions or deviances warrant such treatment - I *am* saying that those who don't embrace those compulsions as wonderful aren't reprobates because they don't, and those that own those compulsions shouldn't expect the world to adjust around them.    

Since you seem so hot on a list of compulsions in which the owners are discriminated against, I'll give you one:  Compulsory Overeaters.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Sorry Bus - been in a meeting for the past couple hours. There are several compulsions in which the owners are treated poorly - but, that's not really germane to the discussion, is it?  I'm not arguing at all that those compulsions or deviances warrant such treatment - I *am* saying that those who don't embrace those compulsions as wonderful aren't reprobates because they don't, and those that own those compulsions shouldn't expect the world to adjust around them.    

Since you seem so hot on a list of compulsions in which the owners are discriminated against, I'll give you one:  Compulsory Overeaters.  

I am not familiar with reports of hate and violence being visited upon compulsive overeaters.  Are you?

While I openly admit to a serious predilection for Bacon, that isn't the same thing as sexual orientation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

I am not familiar with reports of hate and violence being visited upon compulsive overeaters.  Are you?

While I openly admit to a serious predilection for Bacon, that isn't the same thing as sexual orientation.

No reports of anyone ever picking on the fat kid?  Obese people never being scorned or ridiculed or harassed?  C'mon Bus. 

The point is that "a compulsion deserving of scorn" only came into the discussion because others intentionally conflated what I was saying to mean that.   I honestly appreciate BJ's comment - he said what I was thinking a lot more clearly than I did, as I was trying to establish context.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

No reports of anyone ever picking on the fat kid?  Obese people never being scorned or ridiculed or harassed?  C'mon Bus. 

The point is that "a compulsion deserving of scorn" only came into the discussion because others intentionally conflated what I was saying to mean that.   I honestly appreciate BJ's comment - he said what I was thinking a lot more clearly than I did, as I was trying to establish context.  

I have heard of kids being picked on because of their weight.  That is not quite the same thing as what happened to Matthew Shepard.

You view homosexuality as "deviant behavior" and a "compulsion".  Increasingly, science and society disagree with you.

People used to think less of people of color, but (for much of us) we have evolved beyond that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Bus Driver said:
3 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The same could be asked of any compulsion, could it not?   

What "compulsions" are you hinting at that would get the same type of discrimination, hate, and violence visited upon gays?

You equated the two.  I asked for examples of the same type of hate and violence.  You offered up people being mean to a fat kid.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

The brain is separate from the entire being?  

Yes... did you read my post about a genetic basis for such a situation?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Yes... did you read my post about a genetic basis for such a situation?

I did, and I appreciate the explanation. That said, someone who's afflicted with a mind that doesn't agree with their physiology has an issue - and it's not society's responsibility to fix that for them.  I have to admit that I don't know enough about genetics to accept or refute your suggestion of causality, but, I'm reading more on the topic. 

Even if I come around to agreeing with you as to the physiological basis for such feelings?  I would still contend that the existence doesn't warrant any special dispensation or accomodation on society's part beyond not discriminating against them for it, and would also suggest that the concerns of the people who are made uncomfortable by the presence and behavior of a person w/such afflictions have as much value as the feelings of the afflicted individual.   

I think it's the idea that the latter is invalid that bothers me the most about all these discussions - the idea that everyone ELSE has to accept something that makes them uncomfortable, while it's completely unreasonable to expect the inverse.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The fact you are bigoted rests in the fact you claim sexual orientation is a "choice" and that not choosing the sexual orientation that you prefer is "deviance". Science has been shown that it is not a choice and that there are biological factors (independent of environmental learning) that affect whether one is or isn't homosexual. 

It's not about the acceptance of lifestyle (I know many homosexuals and they are nowhere near universal in their lifestyle decisions). It's about labelling something that they do not choose as being voluntary and deviant. It just isn't. No matter how strongly you feel about it, even the source you brought up says otherwise. You come around to accepting that, and we can discuss the transgender issue (because that's a tougher subject wherein you are part right and part wrong). As long as you throw every LGBT person under the same "voluntary deviance" bus though - you're just a bigot who has managed to hide it well until now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also,,, you don’t get to decide how or whether society accepts someone’s sexual identity. 

In a free society, the individual decides it for themselves, you don’t get to tell them what is “normal” and “abnormal”, they should be able to live their life without it mattering.

Unfortunately, just like blacks are discriminated against by police, in the courts, in the banks and elsewhere, LGBTQ are discriminated against by those who hire normal people. They have to argue to be allowed at bedside or make financial decisions for their loved ones. They are unable to serve and live openly in the military in many, albeit fewer & fewer cases. 

Straights shouldnt make all the rules over the protests of LGBTQ, everyone’s lives are at stake so all should be making those rules..

But the GOP has actively discriminated against LGBTQ people over the years, and their leadership to this day doesn’t reflect our society.

And GOP stalwarts still call their fellow citizens “deviant.”

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I did, and I appreciate the explanation. That said, someone who's afflicted with a mind that doesn't agree with their physiology has an issue - and it's not society's responsibility to fix that for them.  I have to admit that I don't know enough about genetics to accept or refute your suggestion of causality, but, I'm reading more on the topic. 

Even if I come around to agreeing with you as to the physiological basis for such feelings?  I would still contend that the existence doesn't warrant any special dispensation or accomodation on society's part beyond not discriminating against them for it, and would also suggest that the concerns of the people who are made uncomfortable by the presence and behavior of a person w/such afflictions have as much value as the feelings of the afflicted individual.   

I think it's the idea that the latter is invalid that bothers me the most about all these discussions - the idea that everyone ELSE has to accept something that makes them uncomfortable, while it's completely unreasonable to expect the inverse.  

 

Specifically, what "special dispensation" or "accommodation" are we discussing?

My take is it comes down to being afforded the same rights as others.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

BJ - I feel like I owe you a thanks, because you've quite succinctly said what I think, with one small exception:  Anyone who's going thru any kind of internal conflict ought to have someplace to go for help, within the bounds of our current awareness, but, you're right, that I think society at large ISN'T responsible for providing dispensation and accomodation, anymore than I expect you to provide accommodations for any of my specific foibles.  

As to the "whole lot of ignorance to unpack"?  I'm gonna ignore the jab and ask you to expand on that.  

You've made it clear you think being gay is a choice, being trans is a choice and a mental illness.

That's some grade A-1 ignorance right there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What Chessie says:  "Society shouldn't have to provide accommodations for *those* people"

What he means is" "I think it's ok to demean, exclude, forcibly change and remove rights from *those* people because they don't fit my idea of how to live"

It's a painfully common sentiment from people who claim to be 'Christians', while doing the exact opposite of what Jesus preached. 

"I like your Christ very much, but not your Christians, as they are so unlike him"  (usually attributed to Ghandi, but origin uncertain)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/17/2019 at 2:58 PM, Happy said:

But seriously folks...…….

I find it chilling to think that a raving fundamentalist religious nut is one heartbeat away from being POTUS. If the McDonald keels over from a fat-and-rage-induced stroke, Holy Mike is the new boss. 

Pence's resume shows an unswerving hard-right/fundamentalist bias. He would make Trump look like a liberal. 

 

Can't wait for team D to impeachTrump 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

You've made it clear you think being gay is a choice, being trans is a choice and a mental illness.

That's some grade A-1 ignorance right there.

I'm thinking now is that "A Guy" gets kind of squeamish thinking about body parts making contact with other body parts in certain combinations.  He gets all nervous and itchy and tries to think of birthday cakes (and not to think of monkeys).  It's a visceral thing.  

Not that it's any of his business.  

I suspect Mike Pence and Mother are the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those two would make AGITC  look like a loony lib.

A Handmaids Tale describes the kind of world they would like.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Kirwan said:

What Chessie says:  "Society shouldn't have to provide accommodations for *those* people"

What he means is" "I think it's ok to demean, exclude, forcibly change and remove rights from *those* people because they don't fit my idea of how to live"

It's a painfully common sentiment from people who claim to be 'Christians', while doing the exact opposite of what Jesus preached. 

"I like your Christ very much, but not your Christians, as they are so unlike him"  (usually attributed to Ghandi, but origin uncertain)

I think you may be doing Chessie a bit of injustice. What he said:

19 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

...    ...    ... someone who's afflicted with a mind that doesn't agree with their physiology has an issue - and it's not society's responsibility to fix that for them.

...    ...    ...  I would still contend that the existence doesn't warrant any special dispensation or accomodation on society's part beyond not discriminating against them for it, and would also suggest that the concerns of the people who are made uncomfortable by the presence and behavior of a person w/such afflictions have as much value as the feelings of the afflicted individual.   ...    ...    ...

 

Now, that very last bit leads into some bad calls, for example there are a lot of dog-haters in my community who would love to ban dogs. They feel uncomfortable and fearful of dogs, because dogs have been known to bite people...... not an illogical position, but one that doesn't justify a ban (or other unreasonable controls over others)

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Somebody called me a 'Social Justice Warrior' yesterday, and they meant it as an insult.  

But it got me to thinking.... what is the opposite of an SJW? 

I feel that life isn't black and white, and reducing people to labels oversimplifies the situation, promotes division, precludes understanding and avoids thought.  There's a broad spectrum of views between hard left and hard right.  

So, if an SJW is the far left end of a line, what is on the far right?  

To my thinking, and by flipping the words, that would be someone who PROMOTES INJUSTICE.  You know, the people who want to deny rights to fellow citizens based on their skin color, or religion, or the country their grandparents came from or their sexual orientation.  Basically prejudiced assholes.  

We each have to choose where we land on that spectrum, between SJW and KKK.  

I know which end I want to be closer to. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, phillysailor said:

Also,,, you don’t get to decide how or whether society accepts someone’s sexual identity. 

In a free society, the individual decides it for themselves, you don’t get to tell them what is “normal” and “abnormal”, they should be able to live their life without it mattering.

Unfortunately, just like blacks are discriminated against by police, in the courts, in the banks and elsewhere, LGBTQ are discriminated against by those who hire normal people. They have to argue to be allowed at bedside or make financial decisions for their loved ones. They are unable to serve and live openly in the military in many, albeit fewer & fewer cases. 

Straights shouldnt make all the rules over the protests of LGBTQ, everyone’s lives are at stake so all should be making those rules..

But the GOP has actively discriminated against LGBTQ people over the years, and their leadership to this day doesn’t reflect our society.

And GOP stalwarts still call their fellow citizens “deviant.”

That's a very good point, Philly - and in a free society, shouldn't *I* get to decide what *I* will accept as normal or not as well?  Quit with the BS right bashing for a little bit - there are plenty of D voters who don't like trannies or homosexuals either, and try to concentrate on the point:   I don't have ANY problem with someone being gay, someone deciding/recognizing that they've always felt like an opposite gender, and deciding now to accept and act on that.   What I *do* have a problem with is when the people who have decided that these things are OK, castigating everyone else who hasn't made that same decision.   I don't really care that many of you think I'm wrong on this - I don't treat anyone poorly, unless they've given me personal reason to do so.  I don't let my kids ride in a car w/my drunk neighbor, because I don't want them exposed to the risk that he presents, but, he still comes up to the house several nights a week for a beer and something to eat.  

I don't personally like the idea of homosexuality, or fluid/transgenderism - but I don't extend my personal feelings to suggest that anyone who thinks differently should be discriminated against.  The opposite consideration is largely absent in our era of "tolerance", isn't it?   Y'all, YOU especially, think it's justifiable to deride, taunt, diminish, and if you thought you could get away with it without getting your ass kicked or sent to jail, physically attacking anyone who exhibited themselves to be in any way aligned with a republican/conservative perspective on ANYTHING.   Tolerance my skinny ugly hairy old ass - what you people want is compliance with YOUR views - and anything short of that is cause to disregard the whole person.  

Sloops - thanks for your note, I appreciate it.   BJ - you too - I'm not interested in bashing anyone, but, I'm not interested in getting bashed because I disagree. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why should you have to “like” gays? 

I’m saying don’t label them as deviant or equate them with your neighbor driving drunk with your kids in the car. Those terms are reserved for threats to society, not the transsexual next door unemployed because he/she can’t get a security clearance because the current administration think like you. Jared is a demonstrably worse security risk, but fear of the “other” put the tranny out of work.

Not sure why your last paragraph deals with violence so much. Debating on Sailing Anarchy isn’t really 

14 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

physically attacking anyone who exhibited themselves to be in any way aligned with a republican/conservative perspective 

but I get that you’d like to see people like me faced with the fear of “getting my ass kicked” for challenging your views.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Kirwan - aren't you the same wilting flower who got all pissy w/my Merry Christmas post?   What's the matter - you worried I won't like you? 

 

Yes, because you used Christmas as a weapon to hurt others, you hypocritical asshole. - you never did get the point, did you?  You're just another "Christian" that does the opposite of what Jesus taught.  

I'm not worried because I know you don't like me - I point out your fucked up attitude and illogic.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

Why should you have to “like” gays? 

I’m saying don’t label them as deviant or equate them with your neighbor driving drunk with your kids in the car. Those terms are reserved for threats to society, not the transsexual next door unemployed because he/she can’t get a security clearance because the current administration think like you. Jared is a demonstrably worse security risk, but fear of the “other” put the tranny out of work.

Not sure why your last paragraph deals with violence so much. Debating on Sailing Anarchy isn’t really 

but I get that you’d like to see people like me faced with the fear of “getting my ass kicked” for challenging your views.

Why should I have to "like" anyone?  Because there are many in protected classes who intentionally conflate a personal conflict with discrimination, and regularly use their membership in a protected class to force "acceptance" of their behavior and actions under the threat of facing a charge of discrimination ( which in ANY government agency is a death knell, contractor or blue badge).   

To your last question, let's provide the entire quote for context, shall we? 
" Y'all, YOU especially, think it's justifiable to deride, taunt, diminish, and if you thought you could get away with it without getting your ass kicked or sent to jail, physically attacking anyone who exhibited themselves to be in any way aligned with a republican/conservative perspective on ANYTHING.   Tolerance my skinny ugly hairy old ass - what you people want is compliance with YOUR views - and anything short of that is cause to disregard the whole person.  

I'm suggesting that many of you "more tolerant" types often express a desire to cause physical harm to those who disagree with you, with no more justification than "they are repubtards" - and that in my humble opinion, the only thing that keeps most of you from acting on that is a fear of jail or physical reprisal.  

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Kirwan said:

Yes, because you used Christmas as a weapon to hurt others, you hypocritical asshole. - you never did get the point, did you?  You're just another "Christian" that does the opposite of what Jesus taught.  

I'm not worried because I know you don't like me - I point out your fucked up attitude and illogic.  

 

I used "Christmas as a weapon to hurt others"?  Oh boy - that's rich.  You have fun with your outrage. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I'm suggesting that many of you "more tolerant" types often express a desire to cause physical harm to those who disagree with you, with no more justification than "they are repubtards" - and that in my humble opinion, the only thing that keeps most of you from acting on that is a fear of jail or physical reprisal.  

How about leveling that charge when and if it actually occurs, rather than some weird psychobabble about what we want to do.

 

7 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Why should I have to "like" anyone?  Because there are many in protected classes who intentionally conflate a personal conflict with discrimination, and regularly use their membership in a protected class to force "acceptance" of their behavior and actions under the threat of facing a charge of discrimination ( which in ANY government agency is a death knell, contractor or blue badge).   

No, I made a point about how a highly intelligent and patriotic American transsexual living next door might be unable to get a security clearance because of intolerance, while Jared tried to open back channels with the Russians and still got his. IMO the tranny is the better security risk, but people like you give it to the nepotism man child with a penchant for poor investments and the middle easterners who bail him out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Life is much better when you use the ignore button on these anti-social discriminatory fools.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Life is much better when you use the ignore button on these anti-social discriminatory fools.  

Please do - I love that you can't stand the fact that there are people in the world that don't agree with you. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

How about leveling that charge when and if it actually occurs, rather than some weird psychobabble about what we want to do.

 

No, I made a point about how a highly intelligent and patriotic American transsexual living next door might be unable to get a security clearance because of intolerance, while Jared tried to open back channels with the Russians and still got his. IMO the tranny is the better security risk, but people like you give it to the nepotism man child with a penchant for poor investments and the middle easterners who bail him out.

And as is typical when ya got nothin' - you try to conflate and deflect.    Have fun with that.   I'll still buy the first round at Dirty Franks, or anyplace within staggering distance of the Academy of Music when I'm up there next. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

I used "Christmas as a weapon to hurt others"?  Oh boy - that's rich.  You have fun with your outrage. 

Yes, what you said was (paraphrased) "I hope my saying 'Merry Christmas' upsets you"  

Because Jesus was all about upsetting others. 

 

But ok, back to topic: To you feel gay people should be allowed to get married?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, phillysailor said:

How about leveling that charge when and if it actually occurs, rather than some weird psychobabble about what we want to do.

Aww, you really don't like it when the BS crap thrown about daily by the echo chamber actually gets thrown back at you, do you?

You might want to review just about every thread in the forum that mentions antifa - there is no shortage of echo chamber members willing to use force against anyone they don't agree with.

 

4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Life is much better when you use the ignore button on these anti-social discriminatory fools.

If you want a forum where no dissent is tolerated, try democratic underground. "big tent", until you don't toe the party line.

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, bpm57 said:

Aww, you really don't like it when the BS crap thrown about daily by the echo chamber actually gets thrown back at you, do you?

You might want to review just about every thread in the forum that mentions antifa - there is no shortage of echo chamber members willing to use force against anyone they don't agree with.

 

If you want a forum where no dissent is tolerated, try democratic underground. "big tent", until you don't toe the party line.

 

 

 

 

I appreciate dissent, however I have no time for those who argue for discrimination and boast of their fealty to their fool's gold con man.  

Oh, why bother....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So, lefties can’t question, annoy, mock criticize righties because.... Antifa?

Seriously?

 

Put on some big boy pants and welcome to PA. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

Why should I have to "like" anyone?  Because there are many in protected classes who intentionally conflate a personal conflict with discrimination, and regularly use their membership in a protected class to force "acceptance" of their behavior and actions under the threat of facing a charge of discrimination ( which in ANY government agency is a death knell, contractor or blue badge).   

To your last question, let's provide the entire quote for context, shall we? 
" Y'all, YOU especially, think it's justifiable to deride, taunt, diminish, and if you thought you could get away with it without getting your ass kicked or sent to jail, physically attacking anyone who exhibited themselves to be in any way aligned with a republican/conservative perspective on ANYTHING.   Tolerance my skinny ugly hairy old ass - what you people want is compliance with YOUR views - and anything short of that is cause to disregard the whole person.  

I'm suggesting that many of you "more tolerant" types often express a desire to cause physical harm to those who disagree with you, with no more justification than "they are repubtards" - and that in my humble opinion, the only thing that keeps most of you from acting on that is a fear of jail or physical reprisal.  

 

 

If you were to openly refer to African Americans as "niggers" and continuously comment on their inferiority, we would call you out for it and mock you for it. That does not mean you do not have the right to hold those beliefs, but having the right to hold those beliefs does not guarantee you the right to express those beliefs in public without blowback from other citizens.

You refer to LGBTQ folks as "deviants" an are commenting on their "deviant" lifestyle "choices". Clearly you have issues with them. That is your pregrogative.

It is also just as bigoted as the first example. Which views you are free to hold - bigotry is not illegal unless you act on it when running a public accommodation (for now...) or work for the government. It is your right to believe that way, and you own it. Just because you think LBGTQ folks are deviant/immoral/misguided etc. and do not wish anything done to them does not absolve you of your bigotry. Because you maintain this, it is difficult to see the impacts of your beliefs and those of other like minded folks on the LGBTQ community on the whole. This mentality discounts the real struggles they have with acceptance and discrimination.

That does not mean you are exempt for being called out on your bigotry.

None of us are calling for violence against you. I do not condone violence for political views. Even Nazis.

But your beliefs and your stances WRT to LGBTQ people are bigoted. A conclusion drawn from your own words here.

The number of Democrats that feel the way you do is pretty small. Most of the anti-LGBTQ sentiment is on the right, and most of it is from religious people who eat shrimp and wear mixed fibers (meaning: Old Testament Hypocrites).

And more of the right is accepting than not these days, it would seem.

While this survey is of candidates and their voluntary answers (the most anti-LGBTQ probably chucked the letter unanswered), it is pretty telling.

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/lgbtq-acceptance-partisan-issue-glaad-survey-candidates-finds-n923236

 

As has been said before...if you don't like Gay Sex, don't have any. Problem solved. Beyond that, you're being judgemental.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to like anyone, @A guy in the Chesapeake. I have nothing but disdain for one transgender asshat I know. Has nothing to do with his gender identity and everything to do with him being a self- centred dipshit who runs away from responsibility.

What you should do is accept the fact that homosexuality is not a choice and, by the only source you brought up, removed from the list of mental deviancies accepted as such by science and medicine. Refusing to accept those facts and repeating those falsehoods is bigoted. Which, as long as you continue to do so, makes you a bigot. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, phillysailor said:

So, lefties can’t question, annoy, mock criticize righties because.... Antifa?

Seriously?

 

Put on some big boy pants and welcome to PA. 

So supporting violence against anyone who disagrees with you is "mocking and criticizing?"

I see why the echo chamber couldn't bring themselves to say anything about this:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/12/13/marines-assaulted-philadelphia-keenan-massey-antifa/

or

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/8/12/17681986/antifa-leftist-violence-clashes-protests-charlottesville-dc-unite-the-right

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you actually know where someone sits on the range of sexuality unless they go out of their way to tell you?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You must have very subtle social antennae Soreass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

How do you actually know where someone sits on the range of sexuality unless they go out of their way to tell you?

I tend to find the observation of the partners they are attracted to a reasonable gauge to go by. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

How do you actually know where someone sits on the range of sexuality unless they go out of their way to tell you?

If the number of conservatives who loudly scream "gays are evil" and have been later found fucking members of their sex on the side indicate anything it's judging people by what they tell you can be misleading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bpm57 said:

So supporting violence against anyone who disagrees with you is "mocking and criticizing?"

I see why the echo chamber couldn't bring themselves to say anything about this:

https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/12/13/marines-assaulted-philadelphia-keenan-massey-antifa/

or

https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/8/12/17681986/antifa-leftist-violence-clashes-protests-charlottesville-dc-unite-the-right

You have completely lost me... how is my mocking & criticizing righties the same as supporting violence against anyone who disagrees with me? 

If you can't withstand mocking and criticizing, don't post in PA.

 

Fucking snowflake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Kirwan said:

We each have to choose where we land on that spectrum, between SJW and KKK. 

It's not a spectrum though, it's a circle.

Go far enough and you meet the intolerant nutcases that hold opposite opinions.

FKT

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

If the number of conservatives who loudly scream "gays are evil" and have been later found fucking members of their sex on the side indicate anything it's judging people by what they tell you can be misleading.

And especially the underage members of their own sex.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

You have completely lost me... how is my mocking & criticizing righties the same as supporting violence against anyone who disagrees with me? 

If you can't withstand mocking and criticizing, don't be a right wing fool.

FIFY.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites