The Joker

Stupidest Shutdown in History

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-were-for-a-wall-before-they-were-against-it/2019/01/10/9d114048-14f1-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.72d78b3d7cb7

Barring some miraculous breakthrough, on Saturday the current government shutdown will become the longest in American history. But it has already hit another historic milestone: It is, by far and away, the stupidest government shutdown in American history.

In 2019, the federal government will spend a whopping $4.407 trillion. Yet Congress and the president are shutting down the government in a dispute between the $1.3 billion the Democrats have approved for border security and the $5.7 billion the president is demanding — the difference being precisely 0.0998 percent of the total federal budget. In Washington, that is considered a rounding error.

Worse, Democrats are doing it over a border wall strikingly similar to one that they almost unanimously supported just five years ago. While House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) now says that “a wall is an immorality,” back in 2013, she supported a bill that required the construction of 700 miles of border fencing. (Trump has called for a wall of “anywhere from 700 to 900 miles” long.) The bill negotiated by the Gang of Eight, which included current Democratic leaders Sens. Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.) and Richard J. Durbin (Ill.), declared that “not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary [of Homeland Security] shall establish . . . the ‘Southern Border Fencing Strategy,’ to identify where 700 miles of fencing (including double-layer fencing) . . . should be deployed along the Southern border.”

.... Democrats will object that the Gang of Eight bill did fund a border wall, but it was in exchange for a lot of concessions. Of course it was. As Obama said at the time, “the bipartisan bill that passed today was a compromise.” But today, Democrats are refusing to compromise or lay out what concessions they would accept in exchange for wall funding. When Trump rhetorically backed off the wall and talked about “steel slats” — a fence — Democrats ignored it. When Vice President Pence reportedly offered a deal for $2.5 billion, Democrats dismissed it. In a White House meeting Wednesday, Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no. That is ridiculous.

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I know, right?
Why didn't Republicans, in the 2 years they had available, fund Trump's wall?

 

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Hey Dumbass - it's not Congress, it's not the Democrats - It is Trump and the Senate GOP specifically McConnell.   The wall is just something shiny to distract from the Trump troubles stewing.

But thanks for starting another stupid wall thread. Did I mention you are a non thinking partisan hack moron?

edit: Make that another stupid shutdown thread. Everything else  still applies.

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1 minute ago, d'ranger said:

Hey Dumbass - it's not Congress, it's not the Democrats - It is Trump and the Senate GOP specifically McConnell.   The wall is just something shiny to distract from the Trump troubles stewing.

But thanks for starting another stupid wall thread. Did I mention you are a non thinking partisan hack moron?

When Trump rhetorically backed off the wall and talked about “steel slats” — a fence — Democrats ignored it. When Vice President Pence reportedly offered a deal for $2.5 billion, Democrats dismissed it. In a White House meeting Wednesday, Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no.

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Again, the wall is just a distraction for morons like you to rant about. Steel, concrete, ridgelines it's still a 5 billion boondoggle that does nothing but feed red meat for your consumption.  Flail away.   Oh, I like how you say Pence reportedly.  nice wiggle.  Trump is going down and his 'wall' is not going up.  deal with it.

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Remind me again who instructed the Government to shut down?

And who agreed to own that problem on National TV?

The wall will be as useful as tits on a bull.

I am sure there are lot better ways to increase security without building a wall that will not even be finished once Trumps term is up.

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Freedom.  Let's show some balls and stop going to work to support those who aren't being paid and some still going to work.

I admit, I am self employed so this would not have an impact on my life.

But truly, if this is our country let's own it for all of us.  I have written my Senators and the POTUS.  I'm now on a list somewhere if there is anyone left to keep it.

Most politicians are licking their own assholes.

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Just now, d'ranger said:

Again, the wall is just a distraction for morons like you to rant about. Steel, concrete, ridgelines it's still a 5 billion boondoggle that does nothing but feed red meat for your consumption.  Flail away.   Oh, I like how you say Pence reportedly.  nice wiggle.  Trump is going down and his 'wall' is not going up.  deal with it.

The border patrol disagrees , but why would a partisan hack like you give a shit what the experts say.

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Just now, The Joker said:

The border patrol disagrees , but why would a partisan hack like you give a shit what the experts say.

Give me a ffffing break.  Are you really serious?  Everyone who is anyone knows this is idiotic.  Nancy supported Ronnie too.  Does that weigh in the equation?

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10 minutes ago, The Joker said:

When Trump rhetorically backed off the wall and talked about “steel slats” — a fence — Democrats ignored it. When Vice President Pence reportedly offered a deal for $2.5 billion, Democrats dismissed it. In a White House meeting Wednesday, Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no.

No. Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown, would she give him the wall funding. She said no. He didn't ask if she would negotiate on the wall, he asked if she would give it to him. 

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16 minutes ago, The Joker said:

The border patrol disagrees , but why would a partisan hack like you give a shit what the experts say.

How about we go with what Trump himself said about a government shutdown:

Oct. 7, 2013: "Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

"When they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president." 

 

Dec. 11, 2018:"I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country.  So I will take the mantle.  I will be the one to shut it down.  I’m not going to blame you for it.  The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work.  I will take the mantle of shutting down."

 

So what's the deal here, Joker?  Trump himself has stated that it is the President's responsibility to solve the problem, and he personally is taking accountability for it.  Why are you blaming others?  Is Trump completely full of shit on this?

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15 minutes ago, benwynn said:

How about we go with what Trump himself said about a government shutdown:

Oct. 7, 2013: "Problems start from the top, and they have to get solved from the top, and the president’s the leader, and he’s got to get everybody in a room, and he’s got to lead. And he doesn’t do that, he doesn’t like doing that, that’s not his strength."

"When they talk about the government shutdown, they’re going to be talking about the president of the United States, who the president was at that time. They’re not going to be talking about who was the head of the House, the head the Senate, who’s running things in Washington. So I really think the pressure is on the president." 

 

Dec. 11, 2018:"I am proud to shut down the government for border security, Chuck, because the people of this country don’t want criminals and people that have lots of problems and drugs pouring into our country.  So I will take the mantle.  I will be the one to shut it down.  I’m not going to blame you for it.  The last time you shut it down, it didn’t work.  I will take the mantle of shutting down."

 

So what's the deal here, Joker?  Trump himself has stated that it is the President's responsibility to solve the problem, and he personally is taking accountability for it.  Why are you blaming others?  Is Trump completely full of shit on this?

Completely Trump’s  responsibility for the shutdown.

It is both sides responsibility to come to a consensus to re-open the Government.  That is how it has happened in the past  COMPROMISE 

At this point in time Pelosi and company are refusing any type of plan that includes a wall.  

Trump will not give them that a political victory that they will use against him in 2020

Nanci will not give him a victory by including Wall funding for the same reason   She wants to have a “read my lips ...”. slogan to hammer him with.

Impasse 

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

It is both sides responsibility to come to a consensus to re-open the Government.  

No, it is not. The party responsible for the shut-down is responsible for opening government up again. That's how responsibility works. You break it, you fix it. Trump broke it, he needs to fix it. 

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

It is both sides responsibility to come to a consensus to re-open the Government.  

No it is not.

He shut it down.  

Now he can reopen it.

I advocate we shut down the country until the Don goes back to Russia.  

I'm sure Siberia will be more welcoming than voters in 2020.

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How about this.

As a taxpayer, I don't want to fund a wall because it's a waste of money? I have fences for my cattle. When they want to get out, they do. They mostly don't want to get out but the fencing means shit if they're bound and determined.

And they're just stupid fucking cattle with an expensive fence.

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Glad to see we have a new system on ending shutdowns. 

Trump cannot end the shutdown  the house and senate need to introduce legislation first  

just like in the past 

Under Obama, 

After a 16-day government shutdown, the Senate and House have approved a bill that would re-open the government and extend the debt limit tonight

 

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1 minute ago, austin1972 said:

How about this.

As a taxpayer, I don't want to fund a wall because it's a waste of money? I have fences for my cattle. When they want to get out, they do. They mostly don't want to get out but the fencing means shit if they're bound and determined.

And they're just stupid fucking cattle with an expensive fence.

As a Tax payer I don’t want to fund any assistance to illegals.  Oops the government overruled my wishes. 

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48 minutes ago, The Joker said:

When Trump rhetorically backed off the wall and talked about “steel slats” — a fence — Democrats ignored it. When Vice President Pence reportedly offered a deal for $2.5 billion, Democrats dismissed it. In a White House meeting Wednesday, Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no.

I’ll propose a compromise.   Congress will let the wall be built on a bond system.   Americans can buy the bonds, secured by Trump (just until Mexico pays him back).    True capitalist democracy, following the president’s own campaign vision.    Building codes, private property rights and international water treaties must be complied with, but otherwise Trump is free to dazzle us with his expertise as an builder, free of cumbersome government,    A Republican dream project.  

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Glad to see we have a new system on ending shutdowns. 

Trump cannot end the shutdown  the house and senate need to introduce legislation first  

The House is willing to put through legislation. Trump isn't willing to sign it and McConnell has stated the Senate isn't willing to even bring up to vote anything Trump disagrees with. 

The Republicans are refusing to open the government, the House is more than happy to give them a bill that will let them. 

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It's a game of Chicken.  One one side you have the republicans, who could have passed this funding for years and didn't.  Lead by a man who thinks blackmail is ok.  On the other side, you have the Democrats.  Who chose specifically this issue to live and die on, because they're betting Trump stuck his neck out too far.

In the middle you have the American people and more specifically the government workers, who have no recourse or way to make the aristocracy fix what they are breaking right now.

It really does amaze me that we've gotten to this point.  Perhaps a new law needs to be proposed that matters like this have to be settled by a popular vote when our useless government fucktards screw up this badly.

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35 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Completely Trump’s  responsibility for the shutdown.

It is both sides responsibility to come to a consensus to re-open the Government.  That is how it has happened in the past  COMPROMISE 

At this point in time Pelosi and company are refusing any type of plan that includes a wall.  

Trump will not give them that a political victory that they will use against him in 2020

Nanci will not give him a victory by including Wall funding for the same reason   She wants to have a “read my lips ...”. slogan to hammer him with.

Impasse 

So it is "Completely Trump’s  responsibility" for what has happened, yet is it "both sides responsibility" to fix what happened.  That makes it not completely Trump's responsibility.

Fuck that.  People are responsible for their fuckups.

 He has SAID he owns it. He needs to own it.

It has been a reliable repeating pattern of this administration and its supporters that there is far more interest in pissing off the libs than solving problems. "Ha Ha, We Won" has been, more or less, a mission statement. Making the libs heads explode.  The problem is, this one has real world personal consequences.  It's not just dumping coal mine waste into a river a half a country away, or bankrupting some farming operation in a faraway state who's market has vanished.  These are the paychecks of hundreds of thousands of Americans. It is a hit to the businesses who those people patronize. 

No doubt it has achieved the mission statement of the administration to piss off the liberals.  Absolutely no fucking harm done there. It's a fucking bonus. The problem is that it's too far reaching and is pissing off conservatives too.  That's a problem.  Trump didn't think this one through.  

At least he can depend on his hardcore base holding him to the integrity of a garden variety turnip.  It simply does not matter AT ALL what he said in the past.  The quotes I provided have no relevance at all to them.  This is a big factor on why the shutdown continues.  Trump can count on his base not holding him accountable to anything.  He has nothing to lose in that regard.  

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38 minutes ago, The Joker said:

I don’t want to fund any assistance to illegals

Neither do I.

That is not the issue.

You POS has shut down our country for a cause that has no meaning.

Because he is going to prison (unlikely) or at least losing office in disgrace.

Digest it.

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40 minutes ago, The Joker said:

As a Tax payer I don’t want to fund any assistance to illegals.  Oops the government overruled my wishes. 

When one is hit in the street by a car and killed.  Do we leave them there to die and drive around them, or drag them to the curb?  Voluntarily and at no charge, I mean.

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45 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Glad to see we have a new system on ending shutdowns. 

Trump cannot end the shutdown  the house and senate need to introduce legislation first  

just like in the past 

Under Obama, 

After a 16-day government shutdown, the Senate and House have approved a bill that would re-open the government and extend the debt limit tonight

 

There is a bill sitting in the Senate that McConnell said he wont send forward unless Trump agrees to sign.

So - what's your point again?

Oh, yeah, you lie.

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1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

There is a bill sitting in the Senate that McConnell said he wont send forward unless Trump agrees to sign.

So - what's your point again?

Oh, yeah, you lie.

He will not sign a bill that doesn’t provide the funding for the barrier. 

Ben is right his base is solidly behind him on this. 

 

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

He will not sign a bill that doesn’t provide the funding for the barrier. 

Ben is right his base is solidly behind him on this. 

 

OK, so now you know where the responsibility lies. Damn, took you long enough.

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43 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

It's a game of Chicken.  One one side you have the republicans, who could have passed this funding for years and didn't.  Lead by a man who thinks blackmail is ok.  On the other side, you have the Democrats.  Who chose specifically this issue to live and die on, because they're betting Trump stuck his neck out too far.

In the middle you have the American people and more specifically the government workers, who have no recourse or way to make the aristocracy fix what they are breaking right now.

It really does amaze me that we've gotten to this point.  Perhaps a new law needs to be proposed that matters like this have to be settled by a popular vote when our useless government fucktards screw up this badly.

I disagree. 

The non-college educated white males who form the backbone of Trumps base are responsible for the mess in Washington. Ultimately, their loss of faith in Cheetolini is what will bring shitstain down, and hopefully they will have learned something in the process.

Many of those hurt the most by Trump’s maladministration voted for his screed of hatred, smug superiority and incompetence. This is EXACTLY what they deserve.

I feel badly for the NOAA scientists and NASA engineers who voted for Hillary and the role of scientific method in evaluating policy goals. I have less sympathy for those whose ignorance  put us where we are now. These lemmings are free to follow Trump over the cliff, I just hope they don’t pull us down with them.

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11 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

OK, so now you know where the responsibility lies. Damn, took you long enough.

It takes two to tango.  Every shutdown in the past involved some type of compromise from both parties.  

I guess it is Fuck the federal employees.   This is all about sticking it to the president.  

 

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1 minute ago, The Joker said:

It takes two to tango.  Every shutdown in the past involved some type of compromise from both parties.  

Fuck the federal employees.   This is all about sticking it to the president.  

 

Does everybody see what I mean about my prior point?

"At least he can depend on his hardcore base holding him to the integrity of a garden variety turnip.  It simply does not matter AT ALL what he said in the past.  The quotes I provided have no relevance at all to them.  This is a big factor on why the shutdown continues.  Trump can count on his base not holding him accountable to anything.  He has nothing to lose in that regard."

 

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1 hour ago, Navig8tor said:

a wall that will not even be finished once Trumps term is up.

His prison term?

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Just now, benwynn said:

Does everybody see what I mean about my prior point?

"At least he can depend on his hardcore base holding him to the integrity of a garden variety turnip.  It simply does not matter AT ALL what he said in the past.  The quotes I provided have no relevance at all to them.  This is a big factor on why the shutdown continues.  Trump can count on his base not holding him accountable to anything.  He has nothing to lose in that regard."

 

Another factor is the Dems refusing to fund something they supported under Obama  

This shutdown happened for the same reason as all the others a  refusal to fund the elected presidents agenda.  Nothing more nothing less 

As to Bases.  The Pelosi base  is sticking with her, just as hard to not compromise.  

Two sides 

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25 minutes ago, The Joker said:

It takes two to tango.  Every shutdown in the past involved some type of compromise from both parties.  

I guess it is Fuck the federal employees.   This is all about sticking it to the president.  

 

The compromise was reached. The bills were passed. Anne cut off Trump's balls, and his reaction is to sit and cry in the corner.

 

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Consider the source of this thread, and the movie character that he apparently idolizes....

https://youtu.be/WFPBKmuHyKE

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2 hours ago, The Joker said:

Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no.

I've looked in Google and found no reports that agree with your claim.  Do you have a cite?

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1 minute ago, Bus Driver said:

I've looked in Google and found no reports that agree with your claim.  Do you have a cite?

Not my claim it’s in the OP

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34 minutes ago, benwynn said:

Does everybody see what I mean about my prior point?

"At least he can depend on his hardcore base holding him to the integrity of a garden variety turnip.  It simply does not matter AT ALL what he said in the past.  The quotes I provided have no relevance at all to them.  This is a big factor on why the shutdown continues.  Trump can count on his base not holding him accountable to anything.  He has nothing to lose in that regard."

If they held him accountable they wouldn't be Trumpalos.

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2 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Not my claim it’s in the OP

That's funny.  In the OP, there is a link in the words "She said no", meaning she refused to end the shutdown and negotiate on border security.  Unfortunately, the link does not back up that assertion.

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3 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

That's funny.  In the OP, there is a link in the words "She said no", meaning she refused to end the shutdown and negotiate on border security.  Unfortunately, the link does not back up that assertion.

It was all over the news.  Why ask the question without doing a basic google search. 

TODAY
 
 
 
 
"Are you willing to come up and give him some of this money for the wall?" - "No." -@NancyPelosi "Because apparently that's the sticking point." -Guthrie "No, no. Nothing for the wall." -Pelosi

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8 minutes ago, The Joker said:

It was all over the news.  Why ask the question without doing a basic google search. 

TODAY
 
 
 
 
"Are you willing to come up and give him some of this money for the wall?" - "No." -@NancyPelosi "Because apparently that's the sticking point." -Guthrie "No, no. Nothing for the wall." -Pelosi

I did do a Google search.  You can't expect Google to produce cites for things you imagined.

She has been very clear "no money for the wall".  He has been very clear the shutdown is his and will continue until he gets his wall.  Stalemate.

Your allegation claims that President Trump offered a deal in which the shutdown would end and, separate from that, they would negotiate the wall.

You've offered no proof President Trump was willing to end the shutdown without the wall.

Try again.

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1 hour ago, Grrr... said:

It's a game of Chicken.  One one side you have the republicans, who could have passed this funding for years and didn't.  Lead by a man who thinks blackmail is ok.  On the other side, you have the Democrats.  Who chose specifically this issue to live and die on, because they're betting Trump stuck his neck out too far.

In the middle you have the American people and more specifically the government workers, who have no recourse or way to make the aristocracy fix what they are breaking right now.

It really does amaze me that we've gotten to this point.  Perhaps a new law needs to be proposed that matters like this have to be settled by a popular vote when our useless government fucktards screw up this badly.

I heard something on the radio yesterday evening, I’m not sure what show, of a Republican proposal I liked.   No more childish shutdowns,    In the event of an impasse a progressive series of across the board reductions would automatically occur at regular time intervals until compromise seems better.    I suspect being Republicans they wanted a defense and ICE exception.   I like the idea, with no exceptions, and proportional temporary pay cuts for all elected officials and their staff.   There would be no balloon with the difference when a budget is finally approved.   

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Glad to see we have a new system on ending shutdowns. 

Trump cannot end the shutdown  the house and senate need to introduce legislation first  

just like in the past 

Under Obama, 

After a 16-day government shutdown, the Senate and House have approved a bill that would re-open the government and extend the debt limit tonight

 

You really have imbibed the kool-aid, and despite all facts to the contrary, continue to blame Democrats.   

McConnell is the roadblock in the Senate.  He's the President's Lapdog, preventing votes or even discussion on the bills passed by Congress unless Trump tells him to.  

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/425945-mcconnell-blocks-bill-to-reopen-most-of-government

 

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1 minute ago, Kirwan said:

You really have imbibed the kool-aid, and despite all facts to the contrary, continue to blame Democrats.   

McConnell is the roadblock in the Senate.  He's the President's Lapdog, preventing votes or even discussion on the bills passed by Congress unless Trump tells him to.  

https://thehill.com/blogs/floor-action/senate/425945-mcconnell-blocks-bill-to-reopen-most-of-government

 

Correct just like Harry Reid refused to put anything forward that Obama wouldn’t sign.   That’s what politics is about.  You are wrong in that I do not blame the Democrats.  I blame both sides.  We spend billions on projects that many did not support. Green funding under Obama -  Solyndra comes to mind. 

Why not give him the money open the government with an agreement that nothing is spent until a bipartisan commission identifies all areas that need a barrier?  If they don’t find any as many here believe nothing is spent. 

Simple solution. 

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14 minutes ago, Kirwan said:

McConnell is the roadblock in the Senate.  He's the President's Lapdog

the Washington Republican establishment lapdog. It's all about party unity and the machine. they know Trump's a fucking moron and the walls a stupid fucking idea; but they realize to admit that is to lose power. So they persist. They know they'll never lose The Joke's of the world who will gobble up the Cream of Mushroom... until they die, but the Republican party will be diminished.

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

It takes two to tango.  Every shutdown in the past involved some type of compromise from both parties.  

I await Trump's compromise then. Given there is a single issue, The Wall, and he's stated he will not sign anything without The Wall, what exactly is he planning to give up again? 

 

1 hour ago, The Joker said:

Another factor is the Dems refusing to fund something they supported under Obama  

Incorrect. They funded fences at the level being offered to Trump. He won't accept what they supported under Obama. He won't accept what Republicans supported under Trump. He was happy with the amount of funding and its targets until Ms Coulter called him a wimp... Then he shut down the government in a childish tantrum. 

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4 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

I await Trump's compromise then. Given there is a single issue, The Wall, and he's stated he will not sign anything without The Wall, what exactly is he planning to give up again? 

 

Incorrect. They funded fences at the level being offered to Trump. He won't accept what they supported under Obama. He won't accept what Republicans supported under Trump. He was happy with the amount of funding and its targets until Ms Coulter called him a wimp... Then he shut down the government in a childish tantrum. 

You are wrong he already agreed To slat steel fencing just like the stuff previously built

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Just now, The Joker said:

You are wrong he already agreed To slat steel fencing just like the stuff previously built

Then he already has his funding. There is already 1.3 billion for fences and border security just as the a Republicans agreed was reasonable when they were the House majority. 

Trump is demanding more from Democrats than he could get from his own party. That's not compromise, that's escalation. 

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You know who thinks the wall is a bad idea? Every single Congressman whose district is there. Every one. R & D. You know who else thinks this is stupid? The Cato Institute (it's a conservative think tank)..  Any idea of the difficulties involved? Immense - a huge one is the Texas border is a fucking river. Can't put in on Mexico's side. Can't put it in the middle of the river - I could go on but our current leading moronic Joker doesn't care - Trump wants a wall and Joker just wants to give him what he wants no matter how ridiculous.

Joker - do you know how many studies Trump has done on this? If you guess zero you are a winner.  And you know who does support Trump's wall - mindless morons like you believe a serial liar.

You can't fix stupid.

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3 hours ago, The Joker said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-were-for-a-wall-before-they-were-against-it/2019/01/10/9d114048-14f1-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.72d78b3d7cb7

Barring some miraculous breakthrough, on Saturday the current government shutdown will become the longest in American history. But it has already hit another historic milestone: It is, by far and away, the stupidest government shutdown in American history.

In 2019, the federal government will spend a whopping $4.407 trillion. Yet Congress and the president are shutting down the government in a dispute between the $1.3 billion the Democrats have approved for border security and the $5.7 billion the president is demanding — the difference being precisely 0.0998 percent of the total federal budget. In Washington, that is considered a rounding error.

Worse, Democrats are doing it over a border wall strikingly similar to one that they almost unanimously supported just five years ago. While House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) now says that “a wall is an immorality,” back in 2013, she supported a bill that required the construction of 700 miles of border fencing. (Trump has called for a wall of “anywhere from 700 to 900 miles” long.) The bill negotiated by the Gang of Eight, which included current Democratic leaders Sens. Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.) and Richard J. Durbin (Ill.), declared that “not later than 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the Secretary [of Homeland Security] shall establish . . . the ‘Southern Border Fencing Strategy,’ to identify where 700 miles of fencing (including double-layer fencing) . . . should be deployed along the Southern border.”

.... Democrats will object that the Gang of Eight bill did fund a border wall, but it was in exchange for a lot of concessions. Of course it was. As Obama said at the time, “the bipartisan bill that passed today was a compromise.” But today, Democrats are refusing to compromise or lay out what concessions they would accept in exchange for wall funding. When Trump rhetorically backed off the wall and talked about “steel slats” — a fence — Democrats ignored it. When Vice President Pence reportedly offered a deal for $2.5 billion, Democrats dismissed it. In a White House meeting Wednesday, Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no. That is ridiculous.

Trump dismissed it as well.  It’s important not to give in to the whims of a crazy person who is likely a Russian agent and will likely be impeached.   Next time he’ll shutdown the govt over his kids indictment.  Reopen govt then give 5.7B for border security but no wall.wall.

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4 minutes ago, Bent Sailor said:

Then he already has his funding. There is already 1.3 billion for fences and border security just as the a Republicans agreed was reasonable when they were the House majority. 

Trump is demanding more from Democrats than he could get from his own party. That's not compromise, that's escalation. 

It can’t be repeated enough that he hasn’t spent the $1.6B appropriated last year.

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2 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

You know who thinks the wall is a bad idea? Every single Congressman whose district is there. Every one. R & D. You know who else thinks this is stupid? The Cato Institute (it's a conservative think tank)..  Any idea of the difficulties involved? Immense - a huge one is the Texas border is a fucking river. Can't put in on Mexico's side. Can't put it in the middle of the river - I could go on but our current leading moronic Joker doesn't care - Trump wants a wall and Joker just wants to give him what he wants no matter how ridiculous.

Joker - do you know how many studies Trump has done on this? If you guess zero you are a winner.  And you know who does support Trump's wall - mindless morons like you believe a serial liar.

You can't fix stupid.

Who does support the barrier?  The head of the border patrol under Obama and Trump and the people doing the job, on the border.  Those people you cited were talking about the original 30 foot concrete wall 

Your river comment proves you are not talking about the current offer. 

We are now talking about another 200 - 300 miles of the steel fencing.  The same fencing already voted and approved under Obama. 

 

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1 minute ago, The Joker said:

Who does support the barrier?  The head of the border patrol under Obama and Trump and the people doing the job, on the border.  Those people you cited were talking about the original 30 foot concrete wall 

Your river comment proves you are not talking about the current offer. 

We are now talking about another 200 - 300 miles of the steel fencing.  The same fencing already voted and approved under Obama. 

 

More bullshit and moving goal posts - There is no plan - just a bs campaign slogan that Ann Coulter shamed Trump into standing on.  Share with the class the engineering and environmental studies done. You can't because there are none, just piles of poop for people like you.  If the landowners and their Congressmen don't support this how hard do you think it will be to take their land? You have no fucking clue. Trump pisses and you celebrate rain.

Repeating the talking points just makes you look dumber, which is no easy trick.

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6 minutes ago, Fakenews said:

It can’t be repeated enough that he hasn’t spent the $1.6B appropriated last year.

I don't think the guy that you're talking to is smart enough to understand what you're saying.

 Just give him a hand grenade in a hot dog bun and tell him to chow down.

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6 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

More bullshit and moving goal posts - There is no plan - just a bs campaign slogan that Ann Coulter shamed Trump into standing on.  Share with the class the engineering and environmental studies done. You can't because there are none, just piles of poop for people like you.  If the landowners and their Congressmen don't support this how hard do you think it will be to take their land? You have no fucking clue. Trump pisses and you celebrate rain.

Repeating the talking points just makes you look dumber, which is no easy trick.

Talk about changing the goal posts. 

You are a waste of my time.  

I hope this is settled soon for the sake of those not getting paid. 

If no one wants to give in over 1 tenth of 1 percent of the budget  - so be it. 

 

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

I did do a Google search.  You can't expect Google to produce cites for things you imagined.

She has been very clear "no money for the wall".  He has been very clear the shutdown is his and will continue until he gets his wall.  Stalemate.

Your allegation claims that President Trump offered a deal in which the shutdown would end and, separate from that, they would negotiate the wall.

You've offered no proof President Trump was willing to end the shutdown without the wall.

Try again.

Again it is not my words it was well reported at the time. Perhaps your google skills suck how about Schumer : 

Speaking to reporters after the brief session, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said the “president just got up and walked out."

“He asked Speaker Pelosi, ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'" Schumer said.

The president, in a tweet, called the meeting “a total waste of time” and appeared to confirm that he left after Pelosi's answer.

“I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier? Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!” Trump tweeted.

 

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7 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Again it is not my words it was well reported at the time. Perhaps your google skills suck how about Schumer : 

Speaking to reporters after the brief session, Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said the “president just got up and walked out."

“He asked Speaker Pelosi, ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'" Schumer said.

The president, in a tweet, called the meeting “a total waste of time” and appeared to confirm that he left after Pelosi's answer.

“I asked what is going to happen in 30 days if I quickly open things up, are you going to approve Border Security which includes a Wall or Steel Barrier? Nancy said, NO. I said bye-bye, nothing else works!” Trump tweeted.

Annnnnnd, you fail. Again. 

Do you have a cite that supports the assertion you repeated that President Trump offered to end the shutdown and negotiate separately with Speaker Pelosi for his wall?

You really, Really, REALLY want that to be true. But, it appears that does not exist outside your imagination. 

So far, you’ve verified he had a tantrum and stormed out. Nothing more. 

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I'm having a hard time seeing a way out for either Trump or Pelosi.  Trump had two mandates - build a wall, lock her up.  He didn't lock her up.  If he doesn't build a wall, then what was all this about?  You had ONE JOB!  For Pelosi, she's declared the wall is "immoral'.  How do you take back 'immoral'?  You don't and remain credible with your own caucus.  Democrats WANT this fight.. they WANT IT BAD.

Essentially, the only way out is some sort of mass defection by either Democrats or Republicans and either override the speaker or override the president.  It takes 10 or so Senators to override the president and would take something around 125 democrats to override (and replace) Pelosi.  This will continue until one side or the other sees that they're going to lose.

Here's a hard truth - the Republicans are still playing with House money so to speak.  If you told a Republican two years ago that the would get a big ass tax cut and TWO (possibly three!) supreme court justices, they'd sell their morals - and they did.  Adultery?  As long as she's an adult, don't care.  Lying?  What's a little fib.. etc.   BUT - they're late in the game now.  They've got their winnings.  Now they gotta get out of the casino.

I'm guessing that once McConnell counts 8 hard "yeas", the real negotiations start.

 

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Joker is a waste of time, oxygen and electrons. Trump won't get his wall* and within a few weeks is going to be trying to put out the fire roasting his fat ass. Congress doesn't want it (or it would have been done when the Ds had no say. It's a stupid campaign slogan with nothing to back it up but fear mongering and bullshit.

* just listen to Trumps words as he has changed it to fit whatever flits through his brain. Mexico is going to pay for it? How many times did the Liar in Chief try to spin that one. He wants 5.7 BILLION for something with nothing tangible because it's a vapor wall. That money would be spent before a foot of new construction is done. What he has done is instruct the DOJ to hire lawyers for the upcoming eminent domain debacle.

Fuck Trump and Fuck This.

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11 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Talk about changing the goal posts. 

You are a waste of my time.  

I hope this is settled soon for the sake of those not getting paid. 

If no one wants to give in over 1 tenth of 1 percent of the budget  - so be it. 

 

Again...  The house approved a bill opening the govt..  Actually 6.  They submitted it(them) to the senate where your guy Mcconnell refuses to put it up to a vote.  The bills are there, the govt can be opened by one stroke of the pen.  Hell, a bill passed the senate unanimously again, in red crayon, Unanimously...  Meaning everyone..  again, in red crayon,  Everyone (even the dotard agreed would be a good thing) before x mass.  It fucking passed.  It was fucking sitting on his desk...  and then the ghost of kelleyanne called the orange one a name, he was butt hurt and took his pen and went home leaving the country to stand there like idiots waiting for the man in charge to do something.  He has not done anything but act like a petulant child all the while sinking deeper into the muck being uncovered by Mueler.  He has managed to paint himself into a corner over 1 tenth of 1 percent of the budget(Your words).. Now, hopefully, the parts in red may trigger some semblance of morality in your tiny , tiny cream of mushroom soup slurping brain and pull you a bit closer to reality.  

Not to mention the fact that 11 of his cronies have jumped ship so far in the Russian sanctions thing.  This goes on much longer, someone in the senate is gonna rally the troops and get it opened with a supermajority in the senate and we will be heading full speed ahead to a resignation or impeachment.  

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23 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

I'm having a hard time seeing a way out for either Trump or Pelosi.  Trump had two mandates - build a wall, lock her up.  He didn't lock her up.  If he doesn't build a wall, then what was all this about?  You had ONE JOB!  For Pelosi, she's declared the wall is "immoral'.  How do you take back 'immoral'?  You don't and remain credible with your own caucus.  Democrats WANT this fight.. they WANT IT BAD.

Essentially, the only way out is some sort of mass defection by either Democrats or Republicans and either override the speaker or override the president.  It takes 10 or so Senators to override the president and would take something around 125 democrats to override (and replace) Pelosi.  This will continue until one side or the other sees that they're going to lose.

Here's a hard truth - the Republicans are still playing with House money so to speak.  If you told a Republican two years ago that the would get a big ass tax cut and TWO (possibly three!) supreme court justices, they'd sell their morals - and they did.  Adultery?  As long as she's an adult, don't care.  Lying?  What's a little fib.. etc.   BUT - they're late in the game now.  They've got their winnings.  Now they gotta get out of the casino.

I'm guessing that once McConnell counts 8 hard "yeas", the real negotiations start.

 

IMHO Pelosi has an out..  She can continue to say no and wait it out, or continue to say no, but provide trump with some sort of out that includes a ton of riders (daca path to citizenship, etc..) and maybe tack on another 500 mil for border security.  The Dodard will claim victory and spin it anyway he wants knowing his core will lap it up. She gains 2 or more major victories all while more and more of his followers start to see the light as Mueller gets closer and closer and they start to recognize the lies for what they are.  Lies...  

 

"I'm guessing that once McConnell counts 8 hard "yeas", the real negotiations start."

 

Yup

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48 minutes ago, cmilliken said:

 BUT - they're late in the game now.  They've got their winnings.  Now they gotta get out of the casino.

The ones who could, did. Hence the dozens who didn't run in 2018. Hell, there's one who resigned this week. (now that's a dick move to fuck over your constituents by making them pay for a special election).

The ones who are left, want to stay there. They need to find an exit strategy. That's why Mitch McConnell is silent - other than fucking over progress - so far (he's the 3rd part, remember?).

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3 hours ago, Fakenews said:

It can’t be repeated enough that he hasn’t spent the $1.6B appropriated last year.

Everybody needs a retirement package. 

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4 hours ago, Bus Driver said:

Annnnnnd, you fail. Again. 

Do you have a cite that supports the assertion you repeated that President Trump offered to end the shutdown and negotiate separately with Speaker Pelosi for his wall?

You really, Really, REALLY want that to be true. But, it appears that does not exist outside your imagination. 

So far, you’ve verified he had a tantrum and stormed out. Nothing more. 

You are changing what the linked article said and trying to attribut it to my making the claim   Again read the article and complain to the author   As to the statement  

Chuck Schumer verified it.

Trump tweeted it.  

Others in the meeting have repeated it 

No one has denied it 

so fuck off

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Not going to work. You said that Pelosi rejected Trump opening the government in exchange for Democrats negotiating on the wall. The article, and statements by all the parties you point to, state that Trump only offered to open the government if the Democrats gave him the wall. When they rejected that, he walked out. 

You could honestly admit that you overstepped what was said, but you & honesty haven't been on speaking terms for years. 

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9 minutes ago, The Joker said:

You are changing what the linked article said and trying to attribut it to my making the claim   Again read the article and complain to the author   As to the statement  

Chuck Schumer verified it.

Trump tweeted it.  

Others in the meeting have repeated it 

No one has denied it 

so fuck off

Bullshit. You repeated the bullshit claim that President Trump offered a deal that he would end the shutdown if Speaker Pelosi would negotiate separately for the wall. 

You can keep pretending it happened that way, but that will never make it true. It’s just pure fiction.

President Trump has expressed no interest in compromise and has stormed out of at least one meeting. 

What a “negotiator”. Ha!

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I'm pegging the Joke as a #10.

Quote

10. Trump’s Conspiracy Theories Target the Mentally Vulnerable

While the conspiracy theory crowd — who predominantly support Donald Trump and crackpot allies like Alex Jones and the shadowy QAnon — may appear to just be an odd quirk of modern society, some of them may suffer from psychological illnesses that involve paranoia and delusions, such as schizophrenia, or are at least vulnerable to them, like those with schizotypy personalities.

The link between schizotypy and belief in conspiracy theories is well-established, and a recent study published in the journal Psychiatry Research has demonstrated that it is still very prevalent in the population. The researchers found that those who were more likely to believe in outlandish conspiracy theories, such as the idea that the U.S. government created the AIDS epidemic, consistently scored high on measures of “odd beliefs and magical thinking.” One feature of magical thinking is a tendency to make connections between things that are actually unrelated in reality.

Donald Trump and media allies target these people directly. All one has to do is visit alt-right websites and discussion boards to see the evidence for such manipulation.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mind-in-the-machine/201812/complete-psychological-analysis-trumps-support?fbclid=IwAR2Ky2fQEgCO8SxTFoWd0zB7y0WGy012mm6YGxoiZZ2nR12dxs0-xqa4OYk

Thanks for the link, I lost track of who posted it first.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

Bullshit. You repeated the bullshit claim that President Trump offered a deal that he would end the shutdown if Speaker Pelosi would negotiate separately for the wall. 

You can keep pretending it happened that way, but that will never make it true. It’s just pure fiction.

President Trump has expressed no interest in compromise and has stormed out of at least one meeting. 

What a “negotiator”. Ha!

Liar this is what you are talking about I DIDNT WRITE IT IT WAS PART OF THE LINKED ARTICLE ON THE OP

Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no. 

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4 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Liar 

Trump asked Pelosi whether, if he agreed to end the shutdown and negotiate separately on border security, she would support wall funding. She said no. 

Good God, you are pathetic. 

You can repeat the lie. But, that doesn’t make it become true. 

Read the link you are taken to by the words in blue. It does not support the claim preceding those words. 

The original lie was not made by you. But, you are repeating the lie. 

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7 minutes ago, Bus Driver said:

Good God, you are pathetic. 

You can repeat the lie. But, that doesn’t make it become true. 

Read the link you are taken to by the words in blue. It does not support the claim preceding those words. 

The original lie was not made by you. But, you are repeating the lie. 

First off Schumer backed it up. 

Please post a link where Pelosi claims Trump’s tweet was a lie. 

The way she reacts to him you know damn well it happened or she would have denied it. 

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4 hours ago, The Joker said:

First off Schumer backed it up. '

No he didn't. From your link:

“He asked Speaker Pelosi, ‘will you agree to my wall?’ She said no. And he just got up, and said, 'Well we’ve got nothing to discuss,'" Schumer said.

You're saying that Trump offered to negotiate in exchange for reopening government. Schumer did not back that up.

 

4 hours ago, The Joker said:

 Please post a link where Pelosi claims Trump’s tweet was a lie. 

No need. It's your characterisation of Trump's offer that's a lie. He didn't offer opening the government in exchange for negotiating on the wall. He asked if he'd get the wall in exchange. You were wrong.

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Hardly an original idea, but this thread has pointed out that it appears that FOX News & Rush Limbaugh are now pretty much calling the shots for the nation, strange times.

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This Joker character displays a remarkable lack of reading comprehension skills, and even less in the area of reasoning and critical thinking. 

Just posts bullshit. Keeps repeating the bullshit. When faced with evidence it’s bullshit, demands someone else prove a negative. 

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18 hours ago, austin1972 said:

As a taxpayer, I don't want to fund a wall because it's a waste of money?

I didn't see you whining about funding the Lybian gun-running scandal and regime change operation or the Syrian debacle. What difference does it make now, is that right, hypocrite? 

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Jokers name is apt.  He’s a joke.  He could also go by Baghdad Bob and that would be apt as well.

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2 hours ago, Mickey Rat said:

I didn't see you whining about funding the Lybian gun-running scandal and regime change operation or the Syrian debacle. What difference does it make now, is that right, hypocrite? 

A quick search shows that you joined in March 2017 long after the so called Lydian gun running scandal and Syrian debacle. 

Conclusion 1: You weren’t around to see his whining or not whining.

Consluion 2: You’re a twat.

 

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6 hours ago, animeproblem said:

Hardly an original idea, but this thread has pointed out that it appears that FOX News & Rush Limbaugh are now pretty much calling the shots for the nation, strange times.

When the POTUS and his family are traitors, yes it is unique territory.  The right wing nut jobs offer nothing but rhetoric.  Even they know the stability of the US remains the best thing we can offer.  

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Fearless 3 pm prediction - the Wall for DACA exchange gets new legs.  Trump will try and include some language about somehow amending the 14th (he won't say it that way but that's what would be required)  but will ultimately settle for some sort of escalators to border funding.  

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21 hours ago, benwynn said:

Is Trump completely full of shit

Yes.  And trying to detract our attention from his abysmal time in and out of office.

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3 hours ago, Mickey Rat said:

I didn't see you whining about funding the Lybian gun-running scandal and regime change operation or the Syrian debacle. What difference does it make now, is that right, hypocrite? 

I've made it clear that I think war is stupid. Why should I keep skipping that record? Anyone paying attention knows I'm anti-war.

I'm a live and let live guy.

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fuckface wants to trade 5.7 billion for a wall for extending DACA 

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Besides acting like decent people regarding the DACA kids, we need to add some reform to make it easier for universities to recruit other nations' best and brightest.   Some of them are Caucasian, and most have family money. so Trump might go for it.    Offer work permits to those that graduate and avoid trouble.   If they are gainfully paying taxes and crime free after a few years, give them the option of testing for citizenship.    That would really help future growth, likely enough to actually pay for the Stupid Wall of Trump (SWOT).   I'd accept the SWOT under those conditions., up to 10 billion or so (twice what he promised it would cost Mexico).      

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1 hour ago, dacapo said:

fuckface wants to trade 5.7 billion for a wall for extending DACA 

He wants to be the General Contractor, he should be able to siphon at least $4 billion into his own pockets. He knows lots of cheap concrete guys in NYC.

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On 1/18/2019 at 10:26 AM, The Joker said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/democrats-were-for-a-wall-before-they-were-against-it/2019/01/10/9d114048-14f1-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html?utm_term=.72d78b3d7cb7

Barring some miraculous breakthrough, on Saturday the current government shutdown will become the longest in American history. But it has already hit another historic milestone: It is, by far and away, the stupidest government shutdown in American history.

In 2019, the federal government will spend a whopping $4.407 trillion. Yet Congress and the president are shutting down the government in a dispute between the $1.3 billion the Democrats have approved for border security and the $5.7 billion the president is demanding — the difference being precisely 0.0998 percent of the