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badlatitude

Donald Trump's Presidency is Legally Over, Pending Mitch McConnell's Assent

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10 minutes ago, MidPack said:

 

I referenced major "news" networks. While individuals will weed out facts to suit their already held POVs, maybe I'm naive but I think professional media shouldn't be allowed to deliberately and consciously weed out inconvenient facts. I know Fox, CNN, MSNBC et al immediately say we're 'not news per se, we're opinion journalism.' They all do it, arguing about who is the worst violator is to miss the point.

Unfortunately the electorate gets their "news" from Fox, CNN, MSNBC and their friends/family in their social silo - that's the fault of the viewers. There's almost no alternative today, no significant source that shows all sides of issues, and no source that follows up to say 'this was right', 'this was wrong' and 'here's new information.' Almost zero accountability. Just on to the next premature controversy, and the audience eats it up. We get what we (collectively) deserve.

If you really want the whole picture on any issue, you have to find it yourself, and it's much more work than consuming any one source. Most people don't want the truth...

 

By Jove, you nailed it again.  What we ALL suffer from to a greater or lesser degree is confirmation bias.  We give more intellectual or emotional weight to stories that fit our own biases and devalue or ignore opinions or stories that differ from them.  I think the more partisan one is, the more profound the effect confirmation bias has on one's outlook.

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3 hours ago, MidPack said:

While true, the more pervasive form is presenting only the facts that support your POV and ignoring anything counter. That way the source does have facts on their side, just deliberately not the whole picture. That’s how Fox, CNN and MSNBC and others roll every day. And it works flawlessly on millions of sheeple.

It works because we are either right brained, or left brained, and that's how we are made, we seek out that which our brain directs us to. The person without built-in biases is a rare individual. Even rarer is the broadcasting institution that recognizes those facts. In college, I had a poli sci professor who insisted we read articles from the Los Angeles Times (which was far right at the time) and the Los Angeles Free Press, which was hard left. The point is that you cannot arrive at a fair judgment until you have listened to all sides. You are correct that ignoring the counter is the heart of the problem.

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46 minutes ago, MidPack said:

Your second paragraph above is just premature, you may be right, may be wrong - we have nothing to argue about YET

There are multiple people in this thread (and elsewhere, including the President) who've said the buzzfeed piece is completely incorrect. I don't expect them to change their mind. As fair disclosure - I think Trump asked people to lie - the question is proof. My view is that's what the Mueller statement was about - proof, or lack thereof - not what happened. And yes, I think OJ killed Nicole.

I don't think the issue is media POV per say - it's whether the organization is attempting to add value by discovering and verifying new information. My perspective -as well as that of some Conservatives - on Fox News and most of the rightleaning mediasphere (save the WSJ) is they do very little news gathering/reporting. There is no conservative reporting; there is only conservative commentary. And so the conservative commentary is often ill-informed and ignorant. But because we declare we need "both sides" this regurgitation of press releases is presented as "the other side".

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4 hours ago, Dog said:

No...All media is biased to someone. You just think your own POV is the only valid POV.

My point of view is that science works, and facts are verifiable.

You can say it doesn't hurt to drop a brick on your foot all you want. Maybe you even believe it yourself. But that does mean that -I- am biased in saying that it does.

When you don't don't know the difference between fact and opinion, you get stupid shit like thinking your Doggystylin' of rightie nonsense is great.

-DSK

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

There are multiple people in this thread (and elsewhere, including the President) who've said the buzzfeed piece is completely incorrect. I don't expect them to change their mind. As fair disclosure - I think Trump asked people to lie - the question is proof. My view is that's what the Mueller statement was about - proof, or lack thereof - not what happened. And yes, I think OJ killed Nicole.

I don't think the issue is media POV per say - it's whether the organization is attempting to add value by discovering and verifying new information. My perspective -as well as that of some Conservatives - on Fox News and most of the rightleaning mediasphere (save the WSJ) is they do very little news gathering/reporting. There is no conservative reporting; there is only conservative commentary. And so the conservative commentary is often ill-informed and ignorant. But because we declare we need "both sides" this regurgitation of press releases is presented as "the other side".

We’re pretty much in agreement there. Both sides are doing us a huge disservice, with our approval (millions watch, some with almost religious zeal) - we’re as much to blame. Anyone who goes on and on about how obviously evil the other side is without acknowledging how their side engages in the same manipulation, is too far gone to argue with. And arguing about the relative degree of the other sides manipulation as a defense also misses the point. I don’t know what breaks the loop. If I did, I’d act on it...

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7 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

My point of view is that science works, and facts are verifiable.

You can say it doesn't hurt to drop a brick on your foot all you want. Maybe you even believe it yourself. But that does mean that -I- am biased in saying that it does.

When you don't don't know the difference between fact and opinion, you get stupid shit like thinking your Doggystylin' of rightie nonsense is great.

-DSK

Asimov was right - the Trump red hat phenomenon demonstrates it like nothing before.

image.png.35d04efe7f117fbe07f70a2f7a4af434.png

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14 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

My point of view is that science works, and facts are verifiable.

You can say it doesn't hurt to drop a brick on your foot all you want. Maybe you even believe it yourself. But that does mean that -I- am biased in saying that it does.

When you don't don't know the difference between fact and opinion, you get stupid shit like thinking your Doggystylin' of rightie nonsense is great.

-DSK

The same issue can be presented entirely factually from differing perspectives. The bias is not in the facts that are presented, the bias is in the facts omitted.

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I don't count Buzzfeed as a reliable source. I kinda feel like they're a National Enquirer of the internet.

It's entertaining but not 'news'. Just gossip.

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17 hours ago, badlatitude said:

You are correct that ignoring the counter is the heart of the problem.

Which you do repeatedly!

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Does all of this braying about "Fake News" strike anyone else as self congratulatory? "All these OTHERS are fooled by FAKE NEWS but I, I,through my superior intellect can detect the falsehood.  Those poor ignorant sheeple!"

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1 hour ago, Dog said:
15 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

When you don't know the difference between fact and opinion, you get stupid shit like thinking your Doggystylin' of rightie nonsense is great.

 

The same issue can be presented entirely factually from differing perspectives. The bias is not in the facts that are presented, the bias is in the facts omitted.

 

Many issues CAN be looked at from differing perspectives, within the context of facts & reality.

OTOH the facts are that most journalists make a good-faith effort to present factual news. Fox does not, neither does Rush, nor many other right-wing screamers. In fact, when cornered, Rush himself has said that he's an entertainer not a journalist or news commentator, with no obligation whatever to present any factual content.

False equivalence. There is no liberal counterpart to this nonsense. There are a few biased news commentators, such as Rachel Maddow. But she does not simply invent malicious lies (or host people who do) and try to pass it off as "news."

When was the last time FOX News fired one of their "journalists" for publishing a false story?

-DSK

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5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

 

Many issues CAN be looked at from differing perspectives, within the context of facts & reality.

OTOH the facts are that most journalists make a good-faith effort to present factual news. Fox does not, neither does Rush, nor many other right-wing screamers. In fact, when cornered, Rush himself has said that he's an entertainer not a journalist or news commentator, with no obligation whatever to present any factual content.

False equivalence. There is no liberal counterpart to this nonsense. There are a few biased news commentators, such as Rachel Maddow. But she does not simply invent malicious lies (or host people who do) and try to pass it off as "news."

When was the last time FOX News fired one of their "journalists" for publishing a false story?

-DSK

We cannot escape our biases and neither can journalists even when attempting good faith efforts to be "objective". Like a fish that doesn't know it's wet, our biases are intrinsic and color our perception in ways that we can't even discern. That you see leftist media as more accurate than rightist media is simply the result of your own biases being aligned with one and at odds with the other. Our disapproval for media that offers perspectives different from our own has as much to do with us as it does the media.

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26 minutes ago, Dog said:

We cannot escape our biases and neither can journalists even when attempting good faith efforts to be "objective". Like a fish that doesn't know it's wet, our biases are intrinsic and color our perception in ways that we can't even discern. That you see leftist media as more accurate than rightist media is simply the result of your own biases being aligned with one and at odds with the other. Our disapproval for media that offers perspectives different from our own has as much to do with us as it does the media.

When the "rightist media" works at presenting facts, attempting to overcome their intrinsic bias, that's fine.

When they just make shit up and fling groundless slander against any and all liberals, Democrats, or whomever they dislike, then they deserve to be tarred and feathered and given NONE of the respect for a profession.

How many "rightist media" figures jumped on the Obama birth certificate bandwagon? That's your litmus test.

-DSK

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6 hours ago, austin1972 said:

I don't count Buzzfeed as a reliable source. I kinda feel like they're a National Enquirer of the internet.

It's entertaining but not 'news'. Just gossip.

buzzfeed has some really good judicial reporters. notably for their reporting they will link too or display actual court documents. in other parts of the org they've been working the Trump tower moscow story pretty hard with some, so far, verifiable reporting.

looking at Rudy Giulani's bullshitting today that if Trump told someone to lie so what, well.....

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15 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

When the "rightist media" works at presenting facts, attempting to overcome their intrinsic bias, that's fine.

when do they bother? again - the two sides are not the same because there is very little reporting done by the rightwing media. it's an opinion echosphere

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

When the "rightist media" works at presenting facts, attempting to overcome their intrinsic bias, that's fine.

When they just make shit up and fling groundless slander against any and all liberals, Democrats, or whomever they dislike, then they deserve to be tarred and feathered and given NONE of the respect for a profession.

How many "rightist media" figures jumped on the Obama birth certificate bandwagon? That's your litmus test.

-DSK

Like reporting that Trump suborned perjury?

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20 minutes ago, Dog said:

Like reporting that Trump suborned perjury?

Fuck yeah, the dog double standard in full effect.

his rightwing sources use one, anonymous, source that's probably wrong ("prayer rugs at the southern border") and he gives them a pass. fuck the president gives them a pass. but if it's something against his mango messiah he's full pitbull.

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2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Fuck yeah, the dog double standard in full effect.

Like reporting that those Catholic boys dised the Native American.

Did you get the egg off your face?

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Have you wiped Trump's cream of mushroom from yours?

Did you hear the polar bears are going extinct?

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15 minutes ago, Dog said:

Did you hear the polar bears are going extinct?

Wanna remind the class about the thought provoking birth certificate?

How about Seth Rich getting killed to coverup the DNC hack? <- best part of this one is the Trump appartchiks knew it was a lie and still spread it.

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On 1/19/2019 at 5:23 PM, Shootist Jeff said:

BTW - I can't believe you let Mismoyled Raz'r get away with calling your country an irrelevant island full of sheep fuckers.  He's not wrong, I'm just surprised you let it slide.

Some hurtful truths are best glossed over.....

FKT

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3 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

buzzfeed has some really good judicial reporters. notably for their reporting they will link too or display actual court documents. in other parts of the org they've been working the Trump tower moscow story pretty hard with some, so far, verifiable reporting.

looking at Rudy Giulani's bullshitting today that if Trump told someone to lie so what, well.....

Giuliani was embarrassing today. As far as Buzzfeed, I'll stick to WaPo, NYT NPR, BBC and PBS. And The Onion, of course.

https://politics.theonion.com/new-hampshire-legislature-passes-bill-naming-fentanyl-s-1831806795#_ga=2.78936285.813971721.1548029988-2055931686.1548029988

 

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3 hours ago, Dog said:
5 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

How many "rightist media" figures jumped on the Obama birth certificate bandwagon? That's your litmus test.

-DSK

Like reporting that Trump suborned perjury?

How many main stream media ran the story as something that was reported but not verified? Certainly the contradiction from Mueller got big play immediately.

Anyway, that's one. How many complete bullshit malicious stories has the right-wing media begun..... and not retracted? How many jumped on the Obama birth certificate bandwagon?

-DSK

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6 hours ago, Dog said:

Like reporting that those Catholic boys dised the Native American.

Did you get the egg off your face?

 

Whoah the fuck up.  They absolutely DID disrespect and mock Elder Phillips. 

The correction is that they didn't do it out of nowhere, unprovoked  -  he interposed himself into a pre-existing conflict, they were already riled up. 

Doesn't change the fact they disrespected him.

 

 

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Moral of the story is if you come upon some crazed Black Hebrews screaming at some crazed high-school Catholics, don't be stepping in the middle looking non-white and banging a fucking drum.

Years of sexual repression (and some sexual abuse) makes those kids vicious. They probably thought he was Mexican. 

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