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badlatitude

Donald Trump's Presidency is Legally Over, Pending Mitch McConnell's Assent

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"Last night, Buzzfeed ended the legal speculation about whether President Donald Trump committed high crimes and misdemeanors. He did. Buzzfeed claims Donald Trump directed Michael Cohen to lie to Congress about the timing of Trump’s dealings to erect a Trump Tower in Moscow. Buzzfeed has sources claiming special counsel Robert Mueller has proof. If the Buzzfeed report is accurate, and there is literally no reason to believe that it is not, Mueller has proof that Trump should be impeached and removed from office by Congress.

The Constitution requires nothing less. Suborning perjury is a “high crime and misdemeanor,” that’s precedent. The Constitution says that it is Congress’s job to move against a President who has credibly been accused of committing these offenses.

The only thing that obscures the seriousness of the Buzzfeed report is that we have been buffeted by serious allegations and evidence of Trump’s illegalities for two years now. Nothing before has seemed to matter, why would this? The internet is full of politicians, pundits, and legal analysts saying this thing or the other is the “end” of Trump, and yet Trump remains, like a zit on America’s face that can’t be obscured until you cut off your own head.

What’s different this time is that we now know that Robert Mueller will furnish Mitch McConnell with all the legal ammunition they need to impeach the president, should Mitch McConnell choose to exercise the Constitutional responsibilities of his office. The other crimes and misdeeds Donald Trump has been accused of require McConnell and the Republicans to accept, if not a “Democratic” theory of the case against Trump, then at the very least a theory based in fundamental presidential decency. But Republicans do not accept that their presidents must behave decently, and they do not hold their presidents to the same standards they hold African-American presidents to.

 

The usual Republican excuses of Donald Trump’s behavior simply don’t apply in this case. Most of the hedging around the Buzzfeed report takes the form of the “big if true” caveat. It’s true. Everybody, aside from those trapped in the alt-right’s thrall, knows it to be true. The presumption of innocence does not require one to be a chump.

The news that should make Republicans break out in flop sweats in the Buzzfeed report is not that Trump suborned perjury, it’s that Mueller can prove it. This is the key paragraph from Buzzfeed:

The special counsel’s office learned about Trump’s directive for Cohen to lie to Congress through interviews with multiple witnesses from the Trump Organization and internal company emails, text messages, and a cache of other documents. Cohen then acknowledged those instructions during his interviews with that office.

This suggests that Mueller came to the knowledge that Cohen was instructed to lie independently of Michael Cohen, and that Cohen later confirmed. The Trump team can call Michael Cohen a liar all they want, but the suggestion here is that Cohen’s story is (wait for it) CORROBORATED by other witnesses, emails, and documents.

If Trump suborned perjury, McConnell need only hold Trump to the standard of well established legal precedent. He need only acknowledge the Mueller’s evidence against Trump as evidence, instead of some kind of plot orchestrated by George Soros. He need only say, “the President cannot commit a felony.” Suborning perjury, to Congress, is not a close case. As Lawfare puts it:

This story is the first direct allegation of a crime by Trump involving L’Affaire Russe for which the president cannot claim that his actions were authorized by the Article II powers of the presidency. There is an active debate about the degree to which the obstruction statutes can or cannot be applied to facially valid exercises of presidential authority—like, for example, firing the FBI director or directing the conduct of an investigation. There is no debate, by contrast, about whether the president can obstruct justice in his conduct outside of his authorities as president.

There is no possible argument that Trump was acting “within his executive authority” when he suborned perjury.

Of course, there’s no reason to believe McConnell will faithfully execute the responsibilities of his office. He didn’t give Merrick Garland a hearing, he’s currently letting 800,000 federal workers face food uncertainty because he doesn’t want to let the Senate operate as a democratic institution. Mitch McConnell DGAF. There’s nothing in the Buzzfeed report that changes that.

But the key here is that this report gives McConnell the unquestioned power to end Trump whenever he sees fit. McConnell hoards power like a dung beetle hoards poop, if it’s there he’s willing to get dirty to get some. We’ve talked a lot about the dangers of having a President who is susceptible to blackmail by a foreign power. But now we’re living in a world where the President is susceptible to blackmail by the Senate Majority Leader.

Senate Republicans might still live in fear of Trump’s base of voters (who likely do not care about Buzzfeed’s report), and Senate Republicans have become comfortable in their scraping cowardice in front of the great and powerful Oz. But if Mitch McConnell snaps his fingers and tells them it’s Pence time, they’ll have to fall in line. Mueller’s evidence is going to give them Constitutional cover for their actions in a way that Stormy Daniels’s panties never could.

We essentially no longer have a President, we have a Prime Minister who rules a divided government. McConnell can have Trump removed from office within a month of Mueller’s report, if Trump displeases him. The problem of upholding the integrity of the United States of America now rests solely on his desk.

McConnell, arguably, knows that after reading the Buzzfeed report. What he does with that information is anyone’s guess.

I wonder when somebody will tell Donald Trump.

 


Elie Mystal is the Executive Editor of Above the Law and the Legal Editor for More Perfect. He can be reached @ElieNYC on Twitter, or at elie@abovethelaw.com. He will resist.

 

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It's always pretty clear when the toast is done.  You can smell it. 

And this *residency smells.  It's toast.

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The turtle to Shitstain: you’re fired!

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Sigh, not a very accurate article The House impeaches. The trial to remove is in the Senate and the chief justice presides. The only power that McConnell holds at that point is whether he controls the GOP vote.  Time to let Mueller finish up and send it up - if the GOP tries to squash it then all bets are off.  Meanwhile the state of NY is going ahead with criminal charges.

Going to be some #NOTWINNING sad mutherfuckers here.

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10 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Sigh, not a very accurate article The House impeaches. The trial to remove is in the Senate and the chief justice presides. The only power that McConnell holds at that point is whether he controls the GOP vote.  Time to let Mueller finish up and send it up - if the GOP tries to squash it then all bets are off.  Meanwhile the state of NY is going ahead with criminal charges.

Going to be some #NOTWINNING sad mutherfuckers here.

The substance of impeachment rests with the Senate in a trial. A mere impeachment amounts to nothing without a conviction, a lesson learned from the Clinton trial. McConnell holds the cards. If he were to say there will never be a trial, he essentially moves the United States to an autocracy. Which interestingly is a possibility when you think of all the Republicans who took money from the NRA that was dirty from Russian money. Half the Senate is dirty along with Trump.

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4 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The substance of impeachment rests with the Senate in a trial. A mere impeachment amounts to nothing without a conviction, a lesson learned from the Clinton trial. McConnell holds the cards. If he were to say there will never be a trial, he essentially moves the United States to an autocracy. Which interestingly is a possibility when you think of all the Republicans who took money from the NRA that was dirty from Russian money. Half the Senate is dirty along with Trump.

Why does McConnell hold all the cards? If the House votes for impeachment it goes to the Senate for the trial and the chief justice presides.  McConnell can't just decide not to hold it. The key is getting enough votes to convict where McConnell's influence does come into play. Nothing will happen until Mueller finishes.

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3 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Why does McConnell hold all the cards? If the House votes for impeachment it goes to the Senate for the trial and the chief justice presides.  McConnell can't just decide not to hold it. The key is getting enough votes to convict where McConnell's influence does come into play. Nothing will happen until Mueller finishes.

You are correct and I am not sure why the author who is a legal expert, would choose to describe it the way he did. McConnell could cause trouble since there is very little published law to draw from. I would expect the Supreme Court would be closely involved and we get to see how a stacked court makes a difference.

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7 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

You are correct and I am not sure why the author who is a legal expert, would choose to describe it the way he did. McConnell could cause trouble since there is very little published law to draw from. I would expect the Supreme Court would be closely involved and we get to see how a stacked court makes a difference.

Since the Chief Justice presides over the trial, I would think (hope) the the rest of the Court would not do anything that would undermine the Chief’s Constitutional duty in the case of impeachment.

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5 minutes ago, jerseyguy said:

Since the Chief Justice presides over the trial, I would think (hope) the the rest of the Court would not do anything that would undermine the Chief’s Constitutional duty in the case of impeachment.

These are strange times.

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57 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The substance of impeachment rests with the Senate in a trial. A mere impeachment amounts to nothing without a conviction, a lesson learned from the Clinton trial. McConnell holds the cards. If he were to say there will never be a trial, he essentially moves the United States to an autocracy. Which interestingly is a possibility when you think of all the Republicans who took money from the NRA that was dirty from Russian money. Half the Senate is dirty along with Trump.

Half the senate is dirty? You must be an idiot if you think the other half aren’t just as dirty. 

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

Half the senate is dirty? You must be an idiot if you think the other half aren’t just as dirty. 

I would love to see your evidence.

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5 minutes ago, Mike G said:

Doesn't it make sense that the Special Counsel would deny that report? Otherwise, how could he possibly finish the work that he has? Starting an impeachment ahead of the Mueller Report would fuck up everything.

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3 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

I would love to see your evidence.

You made the fist accusation, so I guess you have evidence that half the senate is dirty, or is that just your opinion. 

My opinion is that you would be lucky to find a senator that has a squeaky clean record if delved into by the likes of Mueller. But then I also think you would be lucky to find many politicians anywhere in the world that are very trustworthy. 

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6 minutes ago, Mike G said:

Yup. Don’t get all lathered up just yet. The statement from Mueller’s office is an interesting very short read. Leaves lots of questions unanswered. 

 

 

F169D673-8CC7-49FD-8F0B-3607A9E59CB1.jpeg

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

You made the fist accusation, so I guess you have evidence that half the senate is dirty, or is that just your opinion. 

My opinion is that you would be lucky to find a senator that has a squeaky clean record if delved into by the likes of Mueller. But then I also think you would be lucky to find many politicians anywhere in the world that are very trustworthy. 

Every Republican Senator who took NRA money that was tainted from the Russians. I don't know if it's half, it is a lot. I would still like to see your evidence.

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1 hour ago, d'ranger said:

Sigh, not a very accurate article The House impeaches. The trial to remove is in the Senate and the chief justice presides. The only power that McConnell holds at that point is whether he controls the GOP vote.  Time to let Mueller finish up and send it up - if the GOP tries to squash it then all bets are off.  Meanwhile the state of NY is going ahead with criminal charges.

Going to be some #NOTWINNING sad mutherfuckers here.

If you've paid attention to North Korea and China, they smell blood in the water. They know rumps a lame duck, that's why they've decided to "negotiate" aka give him bullshit so the cans kicked.

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17 minutes ago, Gissie said:

My opinion is

you are a bullshitting conservative half a world away who knows fuck all about yank politics.

here's the thing dumbass: most politicians aren't nearly as fucking stupid, arrogant, and clumsy as Trump. This shits been found because Trumps a dumbshit. He's used to fucking over little people all his life and now he doesn't realize the rules changed.

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17 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

Every Republican Senator who took NRA money that was tainted from the Russians. I don't know if it's half, it is a lot. I would still like to see your evidence.

I assume that makes up half of the senate. It would also seem to be an opinion still. You consider this to make them dirty. On the same concept most of the donations come with hooks involved for the recipient, whatever side they sit on. So could easily be construed as making the senator dirty. You just seem to have your blinkers on over this subject, disappointing. 

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6 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

you are a bullshitting conservative half a world away who knows fuck all about yank politics.

Says the fuckwit who thinks the US went into Syria to fight ISIS, proving that being a yank doesn’t mean you understand your place of residence any more than me. Cock. 

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Just now, Gissie said:

I assume that makes up half of the senate. It would also seem to be an opinion still. You consider this to make them dirty. On the same concept most of the donations come with hooks involved for the recipient, whatever side they sit on. So could easily be construed as making the senator dirty. You just seem to have your blinkers on over this subject, disappointing. 

Actually, it comes with proof. Here it is, the entire Republican Senate, a large number of Republican House members and 4 HouseDemocrats: 

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=d000000082&cycle=2016

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10 minutes ago, Gissie said:

Says the fuckwit who thinks the US went into Syria to fight ISIS, proving that being a yank doesn’t mean you understand your place of residence any more than me. Cock. 

when you are irrelevant island in the middle of fucking nowhere overrun by tourist knobs and yet all you can do is fuck sheep, everythings really simple, isn't it?

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15 minutes ago, Gissie said:

I assume that makes up half of the senate. It would also seem to be an opinion still. You consider this to make them dirty. On the same concept most of the donations come with hooks involved for the recipient, whatever side they sit on. So could easily be construed as making the senator dirty. You just seem to have your blinkers on over this subject, disappointing. 

bzzzt. wrong.

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Buzz feed under the bus.

 Mueller doesn't want his shit made public until he has it all sewn up.

 

 

 

And I don't blame him.

 

 

 

 Damn Buzz feed should just have shut the fuck up and waited for the real shit to fall.

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And you wonder why it’s called Fake News.  

This story was covered pretty much non stop by the Press.  One bitch from CNN actual backed up the story that it was 100% TRUE

Others ran impeach he is done gone just like Nixon.  Then they add “if True”

journalism is dead.  Reporters are supposed to verify the truth before they publish.  Now they don’t care whose life they destroy it’s a rush to publish regardless of evidence   

The sources for this story should be revealed so they can be destroyed as the traitors they are.  

Mueller has not commented on anything in almost 2 years.  For him to issue this statement calling the Buzz Feed story inaccurate is because  he saw how the Media was in a feeding frenzy to get Trump and he did the honorable thing by shutting it down 

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Mueller hasn't stated what is incorrect. It is odd that he would amke the rare public statement that some of the story is inaccurate but not state which parts are. 

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1 hour ago, Sean said:

Yup. Don’t get all lathered up just yet. The statement from Mueller’s office is an interesting very short read. Leaves lots of questions unanswered. 

 

 

F169D673-8CC7-49FD-8F0B-3607A9E59CB1.jpeg

It used to be said that there were no stupid questions.

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38 minutes ago, The Joker said:

One bitch

Fuck you.  You are my bitch. Fuck yourself cocksucker.

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1 minute ago, hasher said:

Fuck you.  You are my bitch. Fuck yourself cocksucker.

The ignore function is very handy at times. The Joke has been on it since about post 2. Life's too short to pay attention to morons.

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Yep, the flicked fuckers that come back are only here to disrupt and shit - like a band of rogue pigeons.  It's why I refer to them as returds.  I don't have many on ignore but the yoker made it.

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Unfortunately, or fortunately I have had to deal with motherfuckers my entire life.  I like to hit them head on.  My head isn't as well as it once was.  Maybe just a shoulder should work.

I am trying to be nice but I do care and I will act out.

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Got to pick em, I used to get down and dirty here, thing is they enjoy it.  Over the years a number of very bright and interesting posters have left, just too much shit to wade through.

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45 minutes ago, The Joker said:

And you wonder why it’s called Fake News.  

Not fake, inaccurate...There is a difference...fake news= totally made up ..untrue..fabricated.

Inaccurate =  not completely correct or exact,

Muellers a precise kind of guy. This should give any doubters confidence in the integrity of the coming report. 

 

This story was covered pretty much non stop by the Press.  One bitch from CNN actual backed up the story that it was 100% TRUE

Others ran impeach he is done gone just like Nixon.  Then they add “if True”

journalism is dead.  Reporters are supposed to verify the truth before they publish.  Now they don’t care whose life they destroy it’s a rush to publish regardless of evidence   

The sources for this story should be revealed so they can be destroyed as the traitors they are.  

Really? you want to send people to the chair for talking out of office or telling Journo's porkies? Is there some particular benchmark for this?..a line which people should not cross? or is it good for your lying president too?

Or perhaps you were just being inaccurate?:rolleyes:

Mueller has not commented on anything in almost 2 years.  For him to issue this statement calling the Buzz Feed story inaccurate is because  he saw how the Media was in a feeding frenzy to get Trump and he did the honorable thing by shutting it down 

Probably the only reasonable two sentences you've typed in "255" posts 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, hasher said:

Fuck you.  You are my bitch. Fuck yourself cocksucker.

settle petal, you won't survive here long if you let the socks get your goat..use the ignore function if you must, but it's more annoying for them if you simply ignore them :)

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1 hour ago, The Joker said:

And you wonder why it’s called Fake News.  

This story was covered pretty much non stop by the Press.  One bitch from CNN actual backed up the story that it was 100% TRUE

Others ran impeach he is done gone just like Nixon.  Then they add “if True”

journalism is dead.  Reporters are supposed to verify the truth before they publish.  Now they don’t care whose life they destroy it’s a rush to publish regardless of evidence   

The sources for this story should be revealed so they can be destroyed as the traitors they are.  

Mueller has not commented on anything in almost 2 years.  For him to issue this statement calling the Buzz Feed story inaccurate is because  he saw how the Media was in a feeding frenzy to get Trump and he did the honorable thing by shutting it down 

Have you picked out a new sock name for when the shit really hits the fan or are you going to die on this hill?  What's one more reincarnation of the current sock named Joker.  You ma'am, are the worst of the worst.  

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28 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

settle peta

I know how to survive.

The world strives for better.

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I’m glad Mueller shut this rumor down. It’s good to know which news items are completely false and should have no importance attached to them. Glad I hadn’t started to think one way or another about this one charge; Cohen is an unreliable witness and would be a tenuous foundation for a case of impeachment.

Its makes one think, however, about all the reported illicit dealings that haven’t gotten the kibosh by Inspector Mueller. 

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14 minutes ago, phillysailor said:

I’m glad Mueller shut this rumor down. It’s good to know which news items are completely false and should have no importance attached to them. Glad I hadn’t started to think one way or another about this one charge; Cohen is an unreliable witness and would be a tenuous foundation for a case of impeachment.

It's been written by multiple other publications - including the NYT -  that Trump suborned perjury. Just not with that exact phrasing.

Also notable that this report isn't - per Mueller - completely false. 

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3 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It's been written by multiple other publications that Trump suborned perjury.

Name one that doesn’t reference the Buzz Feed Story 

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2 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

when you are irrelevant island in the middle of fucking nowhere overrun by tourist knobs and yet all you can do is fuck sheep, everythings really simple, isn't it?

But at least you know Obama went in to fight ISIS. Hahahahaha. Better to be down here with my sheep, they know more about US history than you do. As for simple, you see it each morning when you have a shave. 

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1 minute ago, Gissie said:

But at least you know Obama went in to fight ISIS. Hahahahaha. Better to be down here with my sheep, they know more about US history than you do. As for simple, you see it each morning when you have a shave. 

give a rightwing troll a bone and he'll carry it between his little teeth forever.

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1 hour ago, hasher said:

Fuck you.  You are my bitch. Fuck yourself cocksucker.

Funny how some think talking like a two dollar whore strung out on crack adds to the discussion.  

Please put me on ignore.  

It just shows what a coward you are  

I try and argue the other view.  When you can’t despute my points the insults come out   

Bunch of whimps 

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

give a rightwing troll a bone and he'll carry it between his little teeth forever.

If you think I am right wing just goes to show how simple you are. As for your comment about Obama and Syria, it was one of the dumbest comments on anarchy for a long time. The fact you used it to insult someone’s knowledge was just icing on the cake. As such it needs to be revisited at times to remind others that there is always going to be someone dumber than them as long as you are around. 

So on behalf of the mentally challenged, please don’t go. 

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14 minutes ago, Gissie said:

But at least you know Obama went in to fight ISIS. Hahahahaha. Better to be down here with my sheep, they know more about US history than you do. As for simple, you see it each morning when you have a shave. 

Right, he went in to prove he could work with Russia instead of having them be the boogeyman.

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1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

 

 

I thought you were leaving? Or does BYE BYE mean something else down under? 

 As to your point I didn’t say to kill the sources.  I said they should be destroyed.  As in their careers.  

They tried to bring down the president of the United States with a false story.  We deserve to know their names 

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1 minute ago, The Joker said:

I thought you were leaving? Or does BYE BYE mean something else down under? 

 As to your point I didn’t say to kill the sources.  I said they should be destroyed.  As in their careers.  

They tried to bring down the president of the United States with a false story.  We deserve to know their names 

so..you were just being inaccurate.:rolleyes: Off to the mailroom for you!

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1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Have you picked out a new sock name for when the shit really hits the fan or are you going to die on this hill?  What's one more reincarnation of the current sock named Joker.  You ma'am, are the worst of the worst.  

Why would I change a perfectly good screen name?   I love the fact that some of you are so hung up on socks. 

If Trump truely goes down I promise to continue the debate as The Joker

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And, two years in, preliminary results are in: Trump is the worst president ever. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46895634

Quote

At the midpoint of Donald Trump's first term, historians have struggled to detect the kind of virtues that offset his predecessors' vices: the infectious optimism of Reagan; the inspirational rhetoric of JFK; the legislative smarts of LBJ; or the governing pragmatism of Nixon.

So rather than being viewed as the reincarnation of Ronald Reagan or Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Trump gets cast as a modern-day James Buchanan, Franklin Pierce or William Harrison. Last year, a poll of nearly 200 political science scholars, which has routinely placed Republicans higher than Democrats, ranked him 44th out of the 44 men who have occupied the post (for those wondering why Trump is the 45th president, Grover Cleveland served twice).

Though the president has likened himself to Abraham Lincoln, who posterity has deemed to be greatest of all presidents, this survey judged him to be the worst of the worst. Even the conservative scholars, who identified themselves as Republicans, placed him 40th.

 

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1 minute ago, Shortforbob said:

so..you were just being inaccurate.:rolleyes: Off to the mailroom for you!

No I stated  exactly what I meant.  You destroy someone’s career.

 If I thought they deserved death I would have used executed.  

You interpreted it wrong, I clarified.

Nothing inaccurate about it. 

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8 minutes ago, The Joker said:

Why would I

Because you do not know your face from your ass.

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3 minutes ago, The Joker said:

No I stated  exactly what I meant.  You destroy someone’s career.

 If I thought they deserved death I would have used executed.  

You interpreted it wrong, I clarified.

Nothing inaccurate about it. 

You stated... what you stated.

"The sources for this story should be revealed so they can be destroyed as the traitors they are"

what you meant ???? who knows?

The penalty for treason? In popular culture is death.

Of course..if you only meant they should be given a harsh talking to and possible demotion to the mail room..you should have said so.

Words matter.

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Just now, Cal20sailor said:

Joker's female.  Please treat the bitch kindly.

Bob's female..doesn't take kindly to the pejorative use of "bitch" 

And Joker's too stupid to be a bitch :D

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2 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Bob's female..doesn't take kindly to the pejorative use 

And Joker's too stupid to be a bitch :D

Bob should have thought before acting.  Agree on Joker.  

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3 hours ago, Bent Sailor said:

Mueller hasn't stated what is incorrect. It is odd that he would amke the rare public statement that some of the story is inaccurate but not state which parts are. 

Nowhere in that Statement did it say "some" of the story is inaccurate.

BTW - I can't believe you let Mismoyled Raz'r get away with calling your country an irrelevant island full of sheep fuckers.  He's not wrong, I'm just surprised you let it slide.

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50 minutes ago, Not guilty said:

shortfordumabass has been shown again that they are a dumbass and keep trying to fight against it.

Are you sure American is your first language?

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 Nowhere in that Statement did it say "some" of the story is inaccurate.

Actually, yeah it did. It stated that "specific statements" were inaccurate. Specific means it was not all statements that were inaccurate, and therefore some of them were & some were not. Which "specific" statements was not specified.

 

Quote

 BTW - I can't believe you let Mismoyled Raz'r get away with calling your country an irrelevant island full of sheep fuckers.  He's not wrong, I'm just surprised you let it slide.

Well, I don't pay much attention to what Mismoyled says. Though I can understand why he might feel that way about Australia if he'd only visited Queensland. We tend to corral the sheep-fuckers up north where the heat leaves them less energy to bother their poor wooly victims. Other than their penchant for partaking of fluffy forbidden fruit, Queenslanders are pretty irrelevant in general. Easy to see how he might get confused from limited interaction with the northern Aussies.

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Nowhere in that Statement did it say "some" of the story is inaccurate.

BTW - I can't believe you let Mismoyled Raz'r get away with calling your country an irrelevant island full of sheep fuckers.  He's not wrong, I'm just surprised you let it slide.

You may find MisJ was throwing his nasturtiums in the general direction of Kiwi, not our fair friends over the ditch, who seem to prefer marsupials for some reason. I would take it to heart but he is really a quiet intellectually challenged sad fool who deserves help more than derision. 

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22 minutes ago, Not guilty said:

So still lies likes Trump would never be the GOP candidate? or that he could never be the Presidential nominee? Oh wait you libtard facts are all just lies. 

This one's a doozy.

So still(comma)lies like (no S) "Trump would never be the GOP candidate?" or that "he could never be the Presidential nominee?" (Use inverted commas when paraphrasing and is this a question or a statement?)

Oh wait(comma or exclamation mark) your libtard facts are all just lies. 

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Talk about your collective premature ejaculation.

Bit unprecedented Mr. Mueller's office would shift from the normal response of "no comment" to specifically comment on the validity of this news article.

As the old saying goes,' first casualty of war is truth'..... and America is at war sadly. Only a matter of time before the hatred, hyperbole and vitriol becomes far more dangerous and damaging.

 

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved.
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis grace has brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.


The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.

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44 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Talk about your collective premature ejaculation.

Bit unprecedented Mr. Mueller's office would shift from the normal response of "no comment" to specifically comment on the validity of this news article.

As the old saying goes,' first casualty of war is truth'..... and America is at war sadly. Only a matter of time before the hatred, hyperbole and vitriol becomes far more dangerous and damaging.

That’s the way of media and the electorate at large these days, most definitely PA - one very thinly sourced “SEE, SEE, SEE - I TOLD YOU” after another. Seeking real truths has been replaced by being first to “know” any story in America. We relish questions, but we can’t be bothered to wait for answers. Stating facts that support an already held view while knowingly ignoring facts that don’t has become the norm - whole networks are built on that MO today. Viewers don’t care and networks don’t either, they’re just counting eyeballs watching. Most of what passes for sensational news these days goes nowhere or is proven premature - more to the story. But IME we’re all guilty of jumping on the half truth bandwagon, I see it every day in the real world. People forcefully spouting sound bites from their favorite biased sources and knowing little if anything else about the underlying facts as they develop. Welcome to PA, a microcosm of 90% of America today.

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I think it more of an inability/unwillingness of the consuming public to put any effort into filtering the information they receive. Buzzfeed reported what they had, characterizations of documents by multiple anonymous sources(facts). Interesting but not conclusive, setting off speculation (opinion). Mueller's team made a statement that not everything in the article was accurate(fact), setting off more speculation(opinion).  It's not that hard but too many people are looking for a reason to rage or tools to beat someone over the head with to do the sorting.  Further expansion of politics by emotion rather than reason.

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32 minutes ago, MidPack said:

That’s the way of media and the electorate at large these days, most definitely PA - one very thinly sourced “SEE, SEE, SEE - I TOLD YOU” after another. Seeking real truths has been replaced by being first to “know” any story in America. We relish questions, but we can’t be bothered to wait for answers. Stating facts that support an already held view while knowingly ignoring facts that don’t has become the norm - whole networks are built on that MO today. Viewers don’t care and networks don’t either, they’re just counting eyeballs watching. Most of what passes for sensational news these days goes nowhere or is proven premature - more to the story. But IME we’re all guilty of jumping on the half truth bandwagon, I see it every day in the real world. People forcefully spouting sound bites from their favorite biased sources and knowing little if anything else about the underlying facts as they develop. Welcome to PA, a microcosm of 90% of America today.

Amen.  Peach on, Brother! 

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11 hours ago, hasher said:

Fuck you.  You are my bitch. Fuck yourself cocksucker.

Wow, just wow!  Quoting scripture, chapter and verse yesterday and now this???

Someone’s losin’ it.  I’ll get the popcorn (it’s National Popcorn Day in the US).

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1 hour ago, MidPack said:

That’s the way of media and the electorate at large these days, most definitely PA - one very thinly sourced “SEE, SEE, SEE - I TOLD YOU” after another. Seeking real truths has been replaced by being first to “know” any story in America. We relish questions, but we can’t be bothered to wait for answers. Stating facts that support an already held view while knowingly ignoring facts that don’t has become the norm - whole networks are built on that MO today. Viewers don’t care and networks don’t either, they’re just counting eyeballs watching. Most of what passes for sensational news these days goes nowhere or is proven premature - more to the story. But IME we’re all guilty of jumping on the half truth bandwagon, I see it every day in the real world. People forcefully spouting sound bites from their favorite biased sources and knowing little if anything else about the underlying facts as they develop. Welcome to PA, a microcosm of 90% of America today.

You nailed it, and it doesn’t bode well for the future of the country.  I see nothing on the horizon that is likely to change it either.

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As to the media - there is a never ending thanks to Reagan for ending the fairness doctrine. FOX would never have existed without it.  And Jackoff would not have anything to jackoff about.

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Fox would never existed if the government was allowed to dictate what constitutes a fair presentation. Thank god it's gone, fucking Orwellian it was.

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7 minutes ago, Dog said:

Fox would never existed if the government was allowed to dictate what constitutes a fair presentation. Thank god it's gone, fucking Orwellian it was.

The Fairness Doctrine was never partisan, it went after anyone who spewed partisan propaganda. Trump should be the number one supporter of bringing it back.

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54 minutes ago, J28 said:

You nailed it, and it doesn’t bode well for the future of the country.  I see nothing on the horizon that is likely to change it either.

Sadly I don’t see how it changes either. Where I used to follow lots of news sources, I’m mostly down to one source now - and I do my own research/fact checking as I always have. I’m definitely no expert, but when I’m in a bar talking politics, it’s appalling how easy it is to derail most (usual loud) self proclaimed experts. I usually just let it go, but sometimes I just can’t.

I’d only say it won’t change until we the people demand it. We like to blame politicians, corporations, media, etc. and they’re not faultless. But ultimately they reflect us. If people stopped watching Fox, CNN, MSNBC et al in droves, they would change or vanish quickly. 

We get what we deserve like it or not.

As for PA, never argue with a fool...prevents me from posting much.

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4 minutes ago, MidPack said:

Sadly I don’t see how it changes either. Where I used to follow lots of news sources, I’m mostly down to one source now - and I do my own research/fact checking as I always have. I’m definitely no expert, but when I’m in a bar talking politics, it’s appalling how easy it is to derail most self proclaimed experts. I usually just let it go, but sometimes I just can’t.

the best part about you, @J28 @BillDBastard lamenting the state of the world is you all demonstrate the problem you bemoan in your posts.

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1 minute ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

the best part about you, @J28 @BillDBastard lamenting the state of the world is you all demonstrate the problem you bemoan in your posts.

OK I’ll bite, I’m not following. Could you elaborate?

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18 minutes ago, badlatitude said:

The Fairness Doctrine was never partisan, it went after anyone who spewed partisan propaganda. Trump should be the number one supporter of bringing it back.

Bullshit.  You want to let the government define what is “partisan propaganda??????

That you would consider allowing the govmint to censor news illustrates what a big-government shill you are.

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9 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Nowhere in that Statement did it say "some" of the story is inaccurate.

BTW - I can't believe you let Mismoyled Raz'r get away with calling your country an irrelevant island full of sheep fuckers.  He's not wrong, I'm just surprised you let it slide.

Quote

BuzzFeed's description of specific statements to the Special Counsel's Office, and characterization of documents and testimony obtained by this office, regarding Michael Cohen's Congressional testimony are not accurate

pay attention to the bolded, dumbass. It's like when someone makes fun of a kiwi they aren't talking about an Aussie.

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