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Tyson0317

J/35 Jibing video

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Hey guys - 

A year or so ago I remember seeing a video on YouTube that someone here posted. It was a J/35 being crewed by some frat boys in what looked like warm weather and stiff breeze. They jibed the thing 3 or 4 times without sheeting in the main at all - just ducking under the swinging boom. Wanted to show it to my crew to demonstrate how strong the rig really is and what not to do. I just spent about 20 minutes searching for the vid on youtube and cant find it. Hope someone has it bookmarked, or remembers what it was called?

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I hope you’re not using it as an example on what to do with the main in a gybe...

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try teaching your crew what to do rather than what not to do.

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I want to show what a boom can do in an unintentional jibe and the power it has. Show why we center the traveler and sheet in and what happens if we mistime that.

Also demonstrate the potential strength of the rig. Really wish I bookmarked that video!

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FOUND IT!!! 

Ok - frat boys they aren't. But you can see why I might have remembered it that way ;-)
 

 

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I wouldn't sheet the main in on a J/35 in anything but the gnarliest of shit. Just throw the boom across when it unloads.

Hell, not letting the main out because the boom is snagged causes a round up in that video.

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Do Not Do Anything The Way They Did!

Fucket's right, grab the mainsheet bundle and  throw the boom over in conjunction with the helm.

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37 minutes ago, fucket said:

I wouldn't sheet the main in on a J/35 in anything but the gnarliest of shit. Just throw the boom across when it unloads.

Hell, not letting the main out because the boom is snagged causes a round up in that video.

 

31 minutes ago, See Level said:

Do Not Do Anything The Way They Did!

Fucket's right, grab the mainsheet bundle and  throw the boom over in conjunction with the helm.

Agree, and that's the way we've been taught by very reputable pro sailors too. This is likely one of those arguments that will never end and no one will ever agree. We used to sheet in the main and try to smoke it out but over 20 knots that leads to way too many broaches. Started grabbing the sheet and throwing across a few years ago and never looked back.   20 knots or below anything works, including sheeting in the main and smoking it out.  20-25+ it just doesn't work very well.

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On the first jibe, the boom catches on the check stay. Really helps to have a good bungee system for the checkstay.

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Are the crew and helm in this video for real? On the one hand you demonstrate the strength of the rig but it doesn’t look that windy and if you do that in a stronger breeze the rig might come down. So many factors, age of rigging, any old repairs, backstay age, alloy corrosion etc. I’ve been on 2 boats that have snapped booms, one aluminium and one carbon and i’ve also seen an X362 drop it’s rig because the boom swung.

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Trying to count what went right on that footage is tough.  I raced those J's for 10 yrs.  They never seemed to have enough room for crew to maneuver and in this case, run into each other and stand and sit in bad spots.  

They were attempting an end for end on that jibe?  Sorry, I got distracted by the the fuckups......We were a dip pole boat and the pit person had to be all over it.  

Grabbing the tackle and bundle of mainsheet is the only way to gybe in those heavier conditions.  Too many things can get caught up if you trim the sheet and then try to ease it as the main flies past everyone.  Foot cleats, snags on a winch, wrap in the the finetune, etc...are just a few things that cause a screw up.  

Delaying the main over is critical as well.  Having the kite gybed or in the process of keeps things balanced but as most know, driver is controlling the gybe but with a J35 that guy trimmer has to haul ass when it's made.  

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I fairness the vid is titled "fails". I don't think these guys were saying "hey, look how great we did"

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Not to take things in a slightly different direction (though looks like I'm about to) but this video reminds me of another all time classic that just about made me piss my pants laughing the first time I saw it.  It's not a J/boat but it's great entertainment.  Things really start going downhill when the helmsperson panics and completely lets go of the tiller and it only gets better from there.  I think at 2:40 is my favorite part of this train wreck.

 

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Except  I am pretty sure this is Mr. Bills Wild ride so not flunkies, or Frat boys.  Probably have 100+ years of J35 experience on that boat.

 

BTW not their only NA championship. 

J35 championship.jpg

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it was practically a lifetime ago that i sailed on 35's - the standard was pretty high.., or at least i though so at the time...

anyway, we dip-poled, but probably a better way to do it on that boat is end for end with separate sheets and guys

but, if you are going to do like those guys, and forget to square the pole, it probably doesn't matter how you do it.., if it's breezy you have a pretty good chance of screwing it up.

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yeah, back in 1992-1994 or so, we dip-poled and I think much of the fleet did as well.

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i've gybed the main on my boat in 30 knots with a flip of the wrist and a very loud "HEADS!!" so many times the wind speed doesn't really matter anymore. I concur with above suggestions to stick with showing your crew how to do it right. Hire a coach to teach them. You're too personally involved.

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10 hours ago, Locus said:

Except  I am pretty sure this is Mr. Bills Wild ride so not flunkies, or Frat boys.  Probably have 100+ years of J35 experience on that boat.

 

BTW not their only NA championship. 

J35 championship.jpg

I was waiting for this comment. I went up and raced on Dean's List and those guys seemed untouchable. I can see why this video is labeled fails, I also didn't know those guys knew how to fail.

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Also, if you're going to SA to look for excuses to berate your crew with for what you perceive that they're doing wrong then maybe you should consider that you're the problem.

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Yeah, if that is Mr. BIll then they don't make a lot of mistakes so this video is a novelty.  Doesn't .look like his regular crew but hard to tell given the cold weather gear.   I think he just won his 6th  North American Championship.

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Glad to see Bozo's name still in there.  You should see the project of repacking and laying the outer skin on her.  Big job...kudos Skyway Yacht yard!

 

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First problem before worrying about the main is not a move was made on squaring the pole back for the jibe. (would have been nice to hear the live audio) I always call 'squaring back' and then 'trip' when I make the final turn through the jibe. Losing the spinnaker was the real problem along with the check stay hooking the boom. Same here, grab the sheet and flop it over. If everybody is coordinated it is not too big of a deal with the cockpit size, a bigger one would obviously be better.

We've end-for-ended the pole for years with single sheets and twing lines, looks like they have the same set-up. In that kind of breeze you suck the twings down to help keep the chute centered, and do not let the sheets run when it all goes bad, that is just looking for a near death experience.

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Then there is this:

 

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From a half dozen or so races against them, I'm used to seeing Mr. Bill from behind.  Usually it's from about a half mile further back though.  Everybody has a bad day once in a while, kids. 

We usually just throw the bundled mainsheet across on gybes.  If it's over 18-20 we sheet in and then ease out fast.  *HOWEVER* you have to be sure the boom goes out on the new gybe fast and as somebody noted above, gotta keep the checkstays clear so they don't snag the boom.  If you keep it on centerline for any length of time and the wind is puffy, it's possible to broach or put her into a death roll, which we saw something like in the vid.  It's the kindest handling boat in the world but even a Labrador retriever can be goaded into biting you if you act stupid enough for a long enough time.

Figuring this out in a very sporty distance race was a lot of fun.

   

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On ‎1‎/‎29‎/‎2019 at 7:16 AM, proOC said:

Glad to see Bozo's name still in there.  You should see the project of repacking and laying the outer skin on her.  Big job...kudos Skyway Yacht yard!

 

Are they going to have it ready for MAC?  

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I would hope so lartaunt.  It seems like the skin was removed early enough to dry it out and replace.  I have not viewed her close up lately but will see her in a month.

As much as the Bozo gang sails now on Earl's boat Program I will be curious to see if they have her at the start of the MAC.

With the Metcalf family....flames may be painted on the bow!

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 8:55 AM, proOC said:

I would hope so lartaunt.  It seems like the skin was removed early enough to dry it out and replace.  I have not viewed her close up lately but will see her in a month.

As much as the Bozo gang sails now on Earl's boat Program I will be curious to see if they have her at the start of the MAC.

With the Metcalf family....flames may be painted on the bow!

I was standing out in front of CYC at the NOODS when they pulled up with the flames on the bow.  Knowing the full story, I about busted a gut laughing.  The people around me thought I had lost my mind.    Love the crazy Bozo gang, Hope to see her back on the water soon.

 

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1 hour ago, lartaunt said:

I was standing out in front of CYC at the NOODS when they pulled up with the flames on the bow.  Knowing the full story, I about busted a gut laughing.  The people around me thought I had lost my mind.    Love the crazy Bozo gang, Hope to see her back on the water soon.

 

My all time favorite boat T-shirt for crew was the Bozo T that had bozo at all the positions on the boat.  Even one up the mast and sitting on the bow pulpit.  It makes me laugh just thinking about it.  They should resurrect that t shirt.  I would buy one!

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Mr Bills Wild Ride it is!! It was a cold and windy day for sure and we did NOT have all our regular crew. It was blowing in the twenties and gusting up to near 30, and if memory serves me right we were the only boat to use the spinnaker that day. Two things caused this epic wipe out, first was the new spin sheet being eased, eased again, then eased some more. This allowed the spinnaker to oscillate way to much, it needed to remain choked down so it would stay in front of the boat.  The second was the main sheet not being fully eased. Fortunately nothing broke and no one got hurt (some got very wet).

We did hoist again later in the race without incident and ended up second.

Wild Bill

Some days you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you.

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On 1/27/2019 at 11:45 AM, jackolantern said:

Also, if you're going to SA to look for excuses to berate your crew with for what you perceive that they're doing wrong then maybe you should consider that you're the problem.

pft, it's always the crew's fault! 

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