TalonF4U

Moving a wide boat across the US

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Doing some math on a potential cross country move from East Coast USA to Cali. My boat is 7500lbs and 11'5" wide. Anyone been down this rabbit hole before? Options...

1) Pay someone to do it. This, I feel, is going to hurt, to the order of 8k or so.

2) buy a trailer and ship it myself behind a big ass truck. I have access to the right set of wheels, and understand that I will require permitting but no chase cars. This will be a pain, but how hard? After I shall out my 8k, at least I have a trailer out of the deal, right?

3) do either option above, but from Houston. I can sail the boat there and probably come up with a reasonable excuse to do so, a proposition bolstered significantly if that actually drops the price a significant amount. If they charge by the mile, it could be good...?

Don't bother suggesting 4) sail it. If I had that kind of time, I wouldn't be moving cross country for work, would I?

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My brother had his J/30 trucked from Houston to Seattle.  The trucker got into trouble with permits (or the lack of them...)  Know before you go.

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Do you really need that boat enough to drag it across the continent?  Sell it and buy something that fits in with the fleet in your new location.

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13 minutes ago, Tax Man said:

Do you really need that boat enough to drag it across the continent?  Sell it and buy something that fits in with the fleet in your new location.

Nobody "needs" a boat... it's a want thing....and besides I was half considering doing this just to race the SHTP in the boat. Sure, wise move is to sell and start over, but are we here. because we are wise? No... if I was wise, I would've bought Apple stock instead of that first 505 all those years ago.

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8 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Don’t use Rocky. Who gets it?

Because it has to go over the Rocky Mountains?  Kidding, that was a great thread. Speaking of I know there have been several good threads on haulers, and it's always a good idea to check with Uship  - they are a clearing brokerage group.  Maybe someone with more time/smarts will search those threads.

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rent a trailer & truck, maybe from u-haul, and trailer it yourself.

that's pretty wide - poles on the corners and avoid cities

4-5 days by yourself. 3-4 with an accomplice.

DON'T DRIVE IN THE RAIN

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We used U-Ship and bought the extra insurance. Damn glad we did, the driver broke our carbon mast and it still took 4 months for them to pay off. If you do it yourself, it's almost impossible to get permits for every state. Most states permitting systems aren't setup for John Q Public towing over sized loads. Prepare yourself for a white knuckle trip, staring in the mirrors waiting for 18 wheeler to pass and seeing if cops coming after you from every weigh station that you pass. It's a what doesn't kill you trip...

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2 hours ago, TalonF4U said:

Doing some math on a potential cross country move from East Coast USA to Cali. My boat is 7500lbs and 11'5" wide. Anyone been down this rabbit hole before? Options...

1) Pay someone to do it. This, I feel, is going to hurt, to the order of 8k or so.

2) buy a trailer and ship it myself behind a big ass truck. I have access to the right set of wheels, and understand that I will require permitting but no chase cars. This will be a pain, but how hard? After I shall out my 8k, at least I have a trailer out of the deal, right?

3) do either option above, but from Houston. I can sail the boat there and probably come up with a reasonable excuse to do so, a proposition bolstered significantly if that actually drops the price a significant amount. If they charge by the mile, it could be good...?

Don't bother suggesting 4) sail it. If I had that kind of time, I wouldn't be moving cross country for work, would I?

 

What's it going to cost in time and money to commute to Houston from VA, every time you want to go sailing?  Or,  is your avatars location of VA no longer the case?

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34 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

What's it going to cost in time and money to commute to Houston from VA, every time you want to go sailing?  Or,  is your avatars location of VA no longer the case?

i think he meant,  sail to houston,  ship overland from there..   but if he wants to keep it in kema, I'd be happy to go down a couple times a year, check on the boat and sail around a little to keep it ship shape..

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2 hours ago, Plausible said:

wasn't this already a topic a few months ago ?  maybe over in CA ?   

Yup and I am adhering to a strict don't ask, don't tell policy!

Other than to say its a PITA to get the permits on your own but low cost.  Or about $500 through permitting company.  Or so I am told.  :P

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3 hours ago, TalonF4U said:

Doing some math on a potential cross country move from East Coast USA to Cali. My boat is 7500lbs and 11'5" wide. Anyone been down this rabbit hole before? Options...

 

what's the draft on that thing?   also I would expect you'd want a lot of liability ins  when you move,  take out a tractor trailer and you're fucked..

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A lot depends on how tall it is sitting on a low boy trailer as well. Overheight means the truck has to take an exit at each overpass and then get back on the highway. This will add to your cost.

I bet it will cost you  2-3 K to sail it to Houston (fuel/food/marinas) as well as your time, which may be valuable in a country with such short vacation times. Figure 2 weeks if you treat it as a delivery trip.

Of course if you like travelling motoring down the ICW (in winter?) go for it.

I'd pick 1 or 2 - but you need a overwidth permit for each state. (8-9 states?)

If  you pick 1 make sure you get references and check out the trucking company's insurance coverage. Get a copy of their policy and make sure it is up to date.  Don't forget costs to load / unload + unstep/step mast at each end.

For that size of boat, unless you really love it, it may make more $$ sense to sell and then buy a new boat in California. Or take advantage of the low Canadian $ and find a boat in BC and sail it down the coast in the summer.

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3 hours ago, Tax Man said:

Do you really need that boat enough to drag it across the continent?  Sell it and buy something that fits in with the fleet in your new location.

That would mean denying the Absoute Truth of the IRC rating rule, which ignores local conditions because they have no effect on how well boats perform.  It would also imply that fleets in different locations might vary a good bit because of the differing conditions they tend to sail in.  How could that be the case, with the totally impartial and absolutely perfect (out to the 4th decimal place!) IRC rule there to even the playing field? Where is your faith in World Sailing??? 

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Talk to a pro boat moving company. Each state has it's own laws on oversize loads: how big they can be, when they can travel, how much in fees. Florida is well known as a expensive state to traverse. Then compare the full pro costs against DIY & make your decision.

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Maybe only if you've got some experience towing big loads through city traffic.  It takes some nerves and lots of patience.  I think I'd probably look at it as an opportunity to buy a good trailer (assuming I had the right truck) for less than the cost of paying a trucker.  If indeed the numbers work out that way. Costs of loading would probably be the same whether it's your truck or a commercial one.  It's always nice to have the ability to haul the boat home for some work.    

Don't go to the DMV for permits. Go to a trucker's agent.  They set up the route and all the paperwork quickly and inexpensively. It's what they do day in and day out.  The packet includes detailed directions for any required detours.  I'm not sure about them being "open to the public." I have farm (i.e. commercial) licenses on my truck and trailer, but I don't recall whether that was an issue. 

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$8000 is a good deal.  That is the cost for a standard flatbed cross country,   Maybe 35000 lbs

 

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Not sure if it's done today, but my boat crossed Canada by rail in the seventies. 

37' loa x 9'-6" beam x ~9' from base of the keel to top of the cabin. 

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What kind of boat is it?

Is it worth moving? Many boats have a regional appeal. Is it better to sell and buy a boat in the new area?

Lots of reasons to keep the boat and move her. Do it yourself is a big undertaking. Based on the beam it does not sound like a small boat? Do you have experience moving such a large cargo? Do you have the time? Fuel costs can add up? Buying a trailer? Additional cost to modify the trailer to match your boat? Borrowing a trailer? Usually means you have to return, more fuel and time? 

IMHO, once you get to the size boat that requires permits, better to leave to an expert.

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15 hours ago, toddster said:

Don't go to the DMV for permits. Go to a trucker's agent.  They set up the route and all the paperwork quickly and inexpensively. It's what they do day in and day out.  The packet includes detailed directions for any required detours.  I'm not sure about them being "open to the public." I have farm (i.e. commercial) licenses on my truck and trailer, but I don't recall whether that was an issue. 

^ this

 

Permit agents know the rules and have accounts with each state.  They do the route plan to go when and where overdimensional loads are allowed.  They take all the trouble out of going 'legal', at the cost of a modest premium on the permits.  In my experience they are happy to work for non-commercial drivers.  

 

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You also need to think about trailer storage costs later if you buy one to move the boat

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I don't see what kind of boat it is, but the most practical thing will be to drop the keel and modify your trailer so that the boat sits on it heeled sufficiently so that it measures less than 8'. You might then consider putting it in a container or tractor-trailer trailer for the trip and save hassle and money.

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1 hour ago, Moonduster said:

I don't see what kind of boat it is, but the most practical thing will be to drop the keel and modify your trailer so that the boat sits on it heeled sufficiently so that it measures less than 8'. You might then consider putting it in a container or tractor-trailer trailer for the trip and save hassle and money.

Thats not a bad idea.

Also the OP may want to use a trailer to deck freight it back from the islands and then back cross country to Va., so the cost of the trailer starts to make more sense.

Maybe

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Boat US has a service that gets the permits, etc. Did it once and it cost a fortune. Just hire it out, you still love the boat and having her on a professional with low boy is simply the most effective. Then, save your wife credits and vacation time for real sailing in your new home.

Cheers, Greg

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On 1/25/2019 at 1:13 PM, Tax Man said:

Do you really need that boat enough to drag it across the continent?  Sell it and buy something that fits in with the fleet in your new location.

Nobody "needs" a boat... it's a want thing....and besides I was half considering doing this just to race the SHTP in the boat. Sure, wise move is to sell and start over, but are we here. because we are wise? No... if I was wise, I would've bought Apple stock instead of that first 505 all those years ago.

 

Just for the next chump trying to do this, here's what I've found.... top shelf pro boat mover quotes 14-17k Norfolk to SF, 10ish from Houston. Buying a trailer, like a used J105 trailer,  is way cheaper, probably less than 7k all up. There are companies that take care of permitting for less than 1k. Insurance on the tow vehicle is sometimes a major issue. For me, I'm taking her to Florida on her own keel because I've gotta go there for work for a month anyway, then maybr sailing on to Texas. A new trailer and I will drive her myself...so I can go get some really expensive Mai Tais with the boat in fifteen  month's time!

 

Unless one of you fine folks makes me an offer I can't resist. 

20190305_143443.jpg

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Doesn't CA collect both state and local sales tax?  8% (about average for most of CA state+local) of 180K is $14,400!   

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33 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

Doesn't CA collect both state and local sales tax?  8% (about average for most of CA state+local) of 180K is $14,400!   

 

sales tax on a used item?    maybe property tax to get it registered..

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39 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

sales tax on a used item?    maybe property tax to get it registered..

In MI, if I buy a boat and bring it into the state and register, I pay 6% sales tax (no local sales tax).  They do occasionally go out and look for boats that are wearing out of state registration numbers but appear to live in state.  I know some states differ so maybe someone could clarify for CA?

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1 hour ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

sales tax on a used item?    maybe property tax to get it registered..

In NY we pay sales tax on used cars, boats, etc.  My boat has had sales tax paid on it 3 different times.

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Yes in CA only they call it a "use" tax. Three years ago I couldn't get over how much more expensive boats are over here compared with the East Coast. But there was no way I could pencil out buying back east and trucking or delivering to this side of the country. The prices take it all into account. The only way it makes sense is if you're retired and can take several months to "cruise" her home. Not the OP's situation, though. 

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On 3/7/2019 at 12:50 PM, Cal20sailor said:

In MI, if I buy a boat and bring it into the state and register, I pay 6% sales tax (no local sales tax).  They do occasionally go out and look for boats that are wearing out of state registration numbers but appear to live in state.  I know some states differ so maybe someone could clarify for CA?

ok, in Tx  that would be the property tax.. 

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I understand why the OP wants to keep his particular boat: he has [probably done lots of little tweaky things to it that really matter and cannot be accounted for in a new boat- it's set up right and he does not want to (or have the time?) to reinvent the wheel.

As for taxes - California residents will pay a sales tax whether the boat is bought new or used, in state or out of state..

Obviously if you buy a boat in California you are supposed to pay a sales tax equal to the county tax rate in/from which the boat was purchased.

Out of state purchases work like this: unless you paid a sales tax to the state where the boat was purchased if you buy a boat from out of state and bring it into California you are required to pay a use tax on the sales price of the vessel whose rate is equal to the sales tax of the county in which the boat is to be kept .

Thereafter you pay property taxes annually equal to 1% of the FMV of the vessel but can avoid the annual registration fees (which is separate from the property tax)  if you document the boat with the USCG.

I would say that less than 1/3 of the boats in my marina have registration decals less than 2 years old: not certain why registration is not being enforced

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:03 AM, TalonF4U said:

Nobody "needs" a boat... it's a want thing....and besides I was half considering doing this just to race the SHTP in the boat. Sure, wise move is to sell and start over, but are we here. because we are wise? No... if I was wise, I would've bought Apple stock instead of that first 505 all those years ago.

 

Just for the next chump trying to do this, here's what I've found.... top shelf pro boat mover quotes 14-17k Norfolk to SF, 10ish from Houston. Buying a trailer, like a used J105 trailer,  is way cheaper, probably less than 7k all up. There are companies that take care of permitting for less than 1k. Insurance on the tow vehicle is sometimes a major issue. For me, I'm taking her to Florida on her own keel because I've gotta go there for work for a month anyway, then maybr sailing on to Texas. A new trailer and I will drive her myself...so I can go get some really expensive Mai Tais with the boat in fifteen  month's time!

 

Unless one of you fine folks makes me an offer I can't resist. 

20190305_143443.jpg

We tow Voodoo 2 between Richmond and Hampton pretty regularly for winter work.  11K lbs, 12' beam, trailer height is 13'8".  Our F250 with tow package and 6 l. diesel pulls it fine but it's only 80 miles.  The catches are numerous for coast to coast....1) bridge and tunnel width/height restrictions  2) overpass heights  3) DOT permits  4) insurance   5) time and fuel  and lodging (I guess you could sleep in the boat?)  6) mountains....sooner or later! maybe both.  Your call.  Great looking boat.  I think we sailed against you in the  Round the Lights Race?  Anyway.  Good Luck!  Leroi

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Yeah, Round the Lights was one of about three times I raced here locally. Had the biggest crew I've ever sailed with for that one: My 75-year old dad, a college sailing buddy, and an old Marine sniper instructor who'd never sailed before. None of them had ever sailed on my boat before. That first jibe was sporty. After we chose the wrong way early (we went out east first and got clobbered) we managed to consume a reasonable amount of beer before it was all over. Pretty much a success. Can't figure out why my rating in Ches PHRF is 15 points lower than what I had from New England PHRF for the B1-2, but never raced enough to make an issue of it...

 

I have to do some research on the tax stuff, but generally a USCG-registered vessel owned by an active-duty guy who's a legal resident of Texas manages to miss a lot of those pesky taxes. CA is notoriously aggressive about collection, though. When I used to live there, they sent me a very threatening letter every year claiming state income taxes on my (federal, legally Texas-resident) salary. You'd sit on hold for hours with the tax man trying to square things away. When I finally got ahold of a human, he basically told me, "oh, we know you're military and don't owe state tax, but we mail out the notices and lots of people just send the checks out of fear." 

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Talon,

I live in Norfolk and am retired. I race at Hampton YC and have sailed all over the world. In my youth, I was the captain of a Swan 47. My longest offshore passage was Newport to Bermuda.  If you need any crew to help deliver your boat (sailing not driving!!), I am likely available. If you have other plans, I wish you a safe journey.

Regards,

Sail2win

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On 3/8/2019 at 1:42 PM, Parma said:

I understand why the OP wants to keep his particular boat: he has [probably done lots of little tweaky things to it that really matter and cannot be accounted for in a new boat- it's set up right and he does not want to (or have the time?) to reinvent the wheel.

As for taxes - California residents will pay a sales tax whether the boat is bought new or used, in state or out of state..

Obviously if you buy a boat in California you are supposed to pay a sales tax equal to the county tax rate in/from which the boat was purchased.

Out of state purchases work like this: unless you paid a sales tax to the state where the boat was purchased if you buy a boat from out of state and bring it into California you are required to pay a use tax on the sales price of the vessel whose rate is equal to the sales tax of the county in which the boat is to be kept .

Thereafter you pay property taxes annually equal to 1% of the FMV of the vessel but can avoid the annual registration fees (which is separate from the property tax)  if you document the boat with the USCG.

I would say that less than 1/3 of the boats in my marina have registration decals less than 2 years old: not certain why registration is not being enforced

Your close

when you buy a new boat in CA you pay sales tax if you buy used you pay use tax.

when you buy a boat out of state and bring it to CA you pay a use tax  based on the purchase price and the tax rate is the same as the sales tax rate for the city in which you live.

the county where the boat lives collects the yearly county property tax.

the reason the CA state registration can be 2 years old is because the state registrations are paid every two years and good for a 2 year period.

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I"ll stick with my first statement: hire the professional big boat mover with hydraulic low boy. Your time is not free, and the family payback is costly...and I know your family!.

Greg

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1 hour ago, gcutter said:

I"ll stick with my first statement: hire the professional big boat mover with hydraulic low boy. Your time is not free, and the family payback is costly...and I know your family!.

Greg

Agreed.  Pay the 8 to 12 k and meet your boat in CA.  At 11.5 ft wide would mean special permits for every state. Im sure in the time and money it would take to prepare for and execute  that kind of tow, one could easily earn more than 12k.

Just for kicks- how high would it sit on a trailer?

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Not sure how high, but not high enough to have bridge problems methinks-- I suspect right around 13'.

 

Greg, may have her trucked from FL-- not sure yet. But a sail to FL is all the fun I'm going to get this year, and the prospect of living aboard and tinkering for a month is super tempting. Can't pass it up.

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Trucking across Fl is expensive. If you can sail the boat to Galveston your costs will be a lot less.

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If it'a after the beginning of May, I'll help you sail her to FL as long as it's offshore, not the ditch!

Greg

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Tried to PM but it said you cannot receive messages.

 

I just made the trip from VA Beach to San Diego with my boat in July of 17. It’s smaller and road legal but might be able to give a few lessons learned and/or give you a hand if you do it yourself.

I need to check on the house in VA soon and might be able to time it to help move the boat south if you’d like some help.

 

if able send me a PM and we can chat on the details.

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On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 1:42 PM, Parma said:

As for taxes - California residents will pay a sales tax whether the boat is bought new or used, in state or out of state..

Out of state purchases work like this: unless you paid a sales tax to the state where the boat was purchased if you buy a boat from out of state and bring it into California you are required to pay a use tax on the sales price of the vessel whose rate is equal to the sales tax of the county in which the boat is to be kept .

The use tax on boats purchased out of state only applies to boats purchased out of state and then moved to CA within 6 months of purchase.  

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So. Just for shits and giggles (and because I'm planning on maybe buying a boat on the east coast next year...), what is the cost of moving a 45fter across the damn US? Something like Texas > Washington...

Any ideas or random anecdotal costs yall have? I seem to be reading about $10k from what is mentioned here. 

~him

 

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19 hours ago, him&her said:

So. Just for shits and giggles (and because I'm planning on maybe buying a boat on the east coast next year...), what is the cost of moving a 45fter across the damn US? Something like Texas > Washington...

Any ideas or random anecdotal costs yall have? I seem to be reading about $10k from what is mentioned here. 

~him

 

Well, that's only halfway across. You are probably looking at over 10k for a 45' boat.

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On 4/4/2019 at 6:12 AM, CCruiser said:

The use tax on boats purchased out of state only applies to boats purchased out of state and then moved to CA within 6 months of purchase.  

CA now requires it to be 365 days before you can move it to CA to avoid the tax

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It's been a while but we did a SC 50 from Seattle to Texas. Then an X-119 from there to Dago. Picked up an Andrews 56 right up 1-5 to Seattle. All on the same truck/rig. When we got the 56 it loaded and measured we knew we didn't have to go up through Nevada etc. The boat was gone up the pike in the morning and our flights back to Seattle was in the afternoon. Next morning we got a call it was 3/4's the way up. Damn near passed it en route. Don't know about the taxes though now.   

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13 hours ago, Overbored said:

CA now requires it to be 365 days before you can move it to CA to avoid the tax

Either way, the point is the OP owns a boat and appears to live on the East Coast and is contemplating a move to Ca - "doing the math on a potential move from the East Coast to Cali" .  He is not living in CA and bought a boat out of state - the typical instance when use tax would be applicable.  So it is unlikely he would owe use tax. 

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On 4/10/2019 at 5:25 PM, Maxx Baqustae said:

It's been a while but we did a SC 50 from Seattle to Texas.

What does a move like this run? Just want to know for fun :lol:

~him

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14 hours ago, him&her said:

What does a move like this run? Just want to know for fun :lol:

~him

Really not sure and it was in the late '90s too. You get a break if you are able to piggyback with other vessels. That's what happened at that time. If you are not in a huge rush you can get a backhaul with another load. I've used these guys for many years: http://www.dudleyboats.com/ The owner Jim had a N/M 68 at one point.

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