95Terp

Modified Columbia 30 info?

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Seeing some light at the end of the tunnel finally.  The keel repair is done and it went down reasonably well.  Bottom paint is gone, barrier coat is on.  Powder coated stanchions are installed, new windows, lots of hardware re-bedded, hatch gasket replaced, rudders and cassettes refinished, tiller re-painted, bulkhead installed, rig re-assembled, lots of new lines,  etc.  Hope to be in the water by the end of the week...

 

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Meanwhile, on the Left Coast... sail development almost complete (for now).

 

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Looks good. I notice your lowers are attached to the forward hole in the chainplate. Ours were in the middle...?

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Forward hole. Better lead and keeps the stays close to each other reducing wind-age.

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Interesting. Uppers in the rear of the spreaders and chainplates?

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My setup is for Summer breeze on (usually 15-22 ish) - more rake and strung rig. Note we sail w/H1 or #4 regularly. Boat is a riot downwind.

Still optimizing my light air setup... will have more data as I sail more in the light this fall.

For your lighter breeze, you will obviously be softer on your settings but not much as the Southern Spars rig likes to be boned on with it's wide shroud base, plus it's safer to have it like this in case someone is on the runner too late. It's a pretty well built and robust rig regardless.

We sail with top stay runners upwind and down. I also rigged deflectors at hounds. You shouldn't need deflectors with your increased forestay height. Original config forestay is too soft w/o them lacking pointing and ability to flatten main.

I figure with your config, you will need to de-power earlier than your sister-ships so these numbers may work for you but pretty sure your higher forestay height will effect the original design bend characteristics so check for any inversion going on while tuning, especially when you wind on the primaries since they are terminated lower than your forestay. Entering new territory here.

You can start with the following as a base and tweak to match your luff curve on your main. If you are getting overbend wrinkles too early, you'll need to tweak it until you have uniformity. Looking for about 1.75" prebend uniformly from gooseneck to tip.

Lowers = 27 (wind this up more for power and fuller main down low)

Primaries = 36 (range from 27 to 38)

Caps = 32 (wind on more if you have the railmeat to handle it)

Don't over tighten anything more than 38 on loose. Make sure your boat can accommodate this tension.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 3/28/2019 at 9:08 AM, 95Terp said:

Another question - we're currently rigged with 2 tack lines.  Does that seem necessary?  I've never felt like I wished I had 2 on previous boats.  For the most part we would never do a peel - legs are too short.  Is it needed with the Code 0?  Distance races maybe?  

 

Recently switched to 2 tack lines for coastal races... now we can peel quickly/easily.

Also added "fractionator " to convert 2nd masthead spin halyard to fractional when we need it for A5. Highly effective.

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Wow - that's a lot of tension.  27 translates to around 1100 lbs or so correct?  Accommodate this tension in what way - without folding in half?  

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I'll have to do some experimenting.  I set it up initially with the uppers at around 29 and the intermediates at 27 in order to help prevent inversion.  Lowers are at 25 but of course this wasn't based on anything in particular.  We do have masthead runners set up.  Goes in the water tomorrow so i'll have to see what it looks like under sail.  

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Like I said, my numbers will most likely not work for your modified rig. Your goal is preventing inversion for that setup. I wonder of the PO stiffened the tip? I would.

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25 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

Like I said, my numbers will most likely not work for your modified rig. Your goal is preventing inversion for that setup. I wonder of the PO stiffened the tip? I would.

I've seen pictures of the boat when it was first turned into a masthead rig. The rig was inverted. I doubt he did anything to stiffen the mast in any way.

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The pictures I saw were upwind.

I14, you said you have a southern spars mast? is it carbon? I've got the Ballenger alu spar. Boat came rigged with a backstay but no runners. Have often thought that, except for the added complexity and having to remember to use them, that runners might be a good addition.

Also, thanks for your description for your bobstay retrieval. I sto ..  I mean emulated it on the RockIt and it is 10x better than what we had.

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No prob Ryley - There are so many system upgrades that I am in process or on the wish list and happy to share them.

Boat is really coming together finally and happy with the results so far.

In regards to the inversion upwind dilemma, yeah - that's an issue that needs to be sorted out and directly related to that mod. The original designed fore-triangle is indeed tiny, and is starved upwind in the lighter breeze but somehow, I'm still able to get decent results so far. Anything downwind, well you know the boat rips for it's size and weight.

If I sailed in 1-8kts regularly, I'd seriously consider a J0 (masthead free fly) and tack it off the sprit midway but keep it non overlap. Furl it to tack, ditch it once the breeze comes up and sail the jib again. I'd also look into a forestay tensioner to make the rig tuning easier to soften down/crank up on the fly. We cruise this boat too so can't go too nuts on it. That's what the 14 is for ;).

Yes on the Southern Spars Carbon mast section - Awesome rig. I was really impressed with build quality once I had it down to inspect everything and change out some items. I've worked on a lot of carbon rigs... this one is nicely done. Overbuilt by today's standards (NZ built, not Chinese) which is fine by me. Boosted my confidence level going to a more aggressive head profile.

The Ballenger section you have is a great rig. More suited to all around conditions, and a better top end upwind IMO. You won't need top mast runners unless you plan on running a fat head. If that's your plan, make sure the rig is stiff enough to handle the additional loads. My main is large, but flat and manageable without the extra roach, designed to fold off at the gaff batten automatically once overpowered.

Pic below is in sub 6 kts. upwind. Our most vulnerable condition but doable. Anybody with a large genoa will most likely roll you on a long upwind but you can usually pass them once the kite goes up.

 

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Yeah, the Ballenger sits right behind yours and the masthead in terms of the jib. we have our moments but it was a conversation that I had when I was looking at the various configs. I even looked at modifying the carbon rig for the bigger jib but then the one I ended up buying came along and I'm pretty happy with the choice.

I had a chance at eXigent, but at the time the owner was asking too much. I bought mine and then eXigent went to the south coast for less than I paid for the RockIt. Oh well :) I like having the inboard. 15 days to BIRW!

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Successful 45 mile shakedown sail today. Lots more little items to sort out, but mostly good.  

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Does everyone get water coming out of the top of the keel?  Considering gasket material under the top plate. It seeps through the front and rear bolt holes into the grid and then finds its way everywhere. 

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It's definitely not the plug.  We weren't surprised because the new owner of Exigent had mentioned water spraying out of the top of his keel at high speeds.  Curious that yours is dry though.  We'll have to work on sealing that up somehow.  

Another question - in my 30+ years of sailing I've managed to avoid runners to this point.  What is the sequence with them during maneuvers?  I feel like the timing isn't too critical since the rig was originally designed to not have them.  Also, do you have shock cord or something else holding the leeward runner forward when not in use?  It tended to want to get caught on the windward side of the boom end.

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Must be great to get her out on the water.  That rudder hardware look dinky compared to my 31ft Azzura 310....  what is the diameter?    Doing a steady 19k we hit a sunfish or such and bend the 1" solid rudder pin.

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The pin is probably 3/4" stainless and seems plenty robust.  I imagine something else would break before that.  The white tube is actually part of the cassette that the pin goes through.  

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4 hours ago, 95Terp said:

It's definitely not the plug.  We weren't surprised because the new owner of Exigent had mentioned water spraying out of the top of his keel at high speeds.  Curious that yours is dry though.  We'll have to work on sealing that up somehow.  

Another question - in my 30+ years of sailing I've managed to avoid runners to this point.  What is the sequence with them during maneuvers?  I feel like the timing isn't too critical since the rig was originally designed to not have them.  Also, do you have shock cord or something else holding the leeward runner forward when not in use?  It tended to want to get caught on the windward side of the boom end.

Congrats on the splash. Top stay runners I handle myself (helm) but you can have someone else manage.

Before the tack, I release tension and uncleat. For the jibe I do the same but only when the boat is running deeper and less loaded.

After tack or jib, pull new runner and tension as needed. I made my lines continuous so I can reach and cleat/uncleat from either side. Same for traveler. Going to do this for my fine tune mainsheet as well. Makes everything easier/faster/smarter.

I do not use a shock cord leader. It may want to swing around boom end downwind from time to time but it just needs to be managed. Upwind is not an issue.

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, solosailor said:

Must be great to get her out on the water.  That rudder hardware look dinky compared to my 31ft Azzura 310....  what is the diameter?    Doing a steady 19k we hit a sunfish or such and bend the 1" solid rudder pin.

Luckily he has two rudders in case he takes one out... only Lumbo to have this. The others have a single deep blade setup similar to updated Tiger w/no cassette.

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Ahhhh copy that......   I had build an emergency rudder for a Columbia 32 up here with the single rudder.

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Just did the same. Always a good idea for any boat going fast and far from home.

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Looks good. You're going to need some proper foot braces or the central life raft pod for the helmsman. Muy importante.

 

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1 hour ago, solosailor said:

Ahhhh copy that......   I had build an emergency rudder for a Columbia 32 up here with the single rudder.

did you build the emergency rudder as a cassette style? I always figured that's what I would do with mine - figure if I do something that requires an emergency rudder, it's gonna be hard enough to get it on if it's a solid one. With the cassette, get the cassette mounted, drop in blade, bob's your uncle.

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Did Antrim build it for you, or did you make it from something else? the links for the oar are broken on his site.

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Quote

did you build the emergency rudder as a cassette style?

That one was kind of a hybrid.   The mount kicked up for inserting the blade and then they swing down with a single set pin at the bottom of the bracket (which can also be a sheer pin).   I've done cassette styles as well but they are a more complex build and heavier.

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On 6/11/2019 at 11:12 AM, solosailor said:

That one was kind of a hybrid.   The mount kicked up for inserting the blade and then they swing down with a single set pin at the bottom of the bracket (which can also be a sheer pin).   I've done cassette styles as well but they are a more complex build and heavier.

any pictures you'd care to share?

I like the idea of a steering oar because it doesn't rely on any of the transom hardware remaining intact. Jim A thinks the C30-2 might be a bit big for it to be effective. but I don't know...

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Hi Ryley,

It's fine under power but I wouldn't want to be using it halfway to Hawaii, unless I had to.

Taking into account the beefier C30-2, a couple of things I did differently:

  • I used longer and thicker wall carbon pole at 13' (non tapered)
  • I also used a smaller paddle at the end in the hope of a less loaded up helm. If it's not to my liking I can easily slide a larger version on (just have to make another).

I've not trialed it under sail yet but I imagine it would be loaded up enough to exhaust any helmsman. I do have more leverage though.

I'll give it a go and test it when I have an opportunity. Once I have the right paddle size dialed in, I can relay results.

As for storage, it rests neatly in the giant quarter berths without any issues. It also doubles as my mainsail roller and keeps the main roll from bending/sagging/distorting laminate.

Here's a video of a Farr 30 using a standard pole (no paddle) under power to give you some idea. Granted not sailing in a big seaway but you get the idea.

 

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Disregard the main.  We haven't switched over to the North yet...

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How do you all route your spin sheets?  We have turning blocks near the aft stanchion but the sheet from there drags on the coaming as well as the campanionway corner.  

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I put harken ratcheting 75 turning blocks just in front of the cockpit winches, and we usually trim from those instead of the cabin tops. helps keep the weight back.

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We like to cross sheet. On the Lumbo, it's a challenge for a clean lead with the coamings.

The solution is a folding pad eye on the back of each coaming. Attach a diverter block (Harken Carbo Ti-lite works well) w/4" soft shackle to each pad eye. The 4" extension is for ability to articulate lead to any winch and not chew up the back side of the coaming. This keeps the cockpit clean, and prevents chafe to the main sheet while cross sheeting.

The pad eyes also come in handy for tether attachment.

If you want to have a lead forward, coaming chafe is inevitable if you cross sheet. You will need to add a stainless strip on the top edge.

 

 

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This past sunday they cancelled the last day of racing because of 4' seas and 18+ knots of NE wind. We decided to do the delivery from Marblehead back to Boston early and averaged about 15 knots with a full main and A2. Topped out around 18 knots... lots and lots of really good surfing. 95Terp, hope you're enjoying your boat this year.

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Wow- that sounds fun. We haven't hit that mark quite yet but then again we've only had her out for a couple of events so far this year :(

Been sailing a ton but on other peoples boats... mostly saving pennies to finally get a great upwind inventory that was absolutely necessary before we cross any starting line.

Really happy with what Ullman NB made us recently. She powers up nicely now while still being able to manage well.

We put a ton of thought into the new upwind sail design package and even more old fashioned elbow grease to get it up to my standards.

She's nearly ready - looking forward this fall.

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Sounds like fun.  We're getting there.  We've had lots of nagging issues to sort out and then the weather hasn't been the most cooperative recently.  We had our sailmaker out last night and made some progress.  Getting closer every week...

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The first two races we sailed it was blowing 15+.  Not a great way to try to get familiar with the boat and work out kinks.  It was nice to hit 10+ kts the first time we put the kite up though.  

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looks like you don't have adjustable cars? Definitely something to consider in the off-season, otherwise it's really hard to depower the jib when you need to. I can send you pictures of our setup and for our inhaulers as well if you want, but you're on the right track.

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Looking good. Consider adding a cascade to the vang to double the purchase. That's a big main that demands proper leech control.

Also, I'D lead the vang to both sides of the cabin top.

In it's present location,  it's too far forward and not easily within reach, especially on this boat.

This is important so the crew can reach it quickly and blow it off in the event things go "sideways".

 

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Yes, the vang is on our short list.  Though I must say, with two rudders I have lots of grip. 

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Quick vang upgrade complete.  24:1 double ended at cockpit.  

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looks like you pulled a nice move on legacy - windward in clear air for your set.. not bad. Looks awfully close though!

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95Terp- Looking like it's finally coming together for you guys. Nice.

We had a nice 43 miler a few weeks ago... 35 boats with proper beat for about 6 miles, blast reach 11 miles w/Zero to fetch the turning mark, then up with the big 2A to run down another 26 miles.

About 8-14 kts of breeze throughout the day. Nice mix of boats in our fleet including 2 Tigers and a C32 Carbon. Reverse start so faster boats starting later and sailing through the fleet. Finished 2nd overall and 2nd in class. One Tiger got by us. Then we went into cruise mode and spent the following weekend at the Island. Fun boat.

 

 

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1 hour ago, ryley said:

looks like you pulled a nice move on legacy - windward in clear air for your set.. not bad. Looks awfully close though!

It wasn't as close as it looks, but the line was skewed so there was quite a party at the pin.  We also had the added fun of a large ship bearing down on the fleet right as we were approaching the first mark.  One of the complications of racing in a busy harbor.

 

29 minutes ago, Irrational 14 said:

95Terp- Looking like it's finally coming together for you guys. Nice.

We had a nice 43 miler a few weeks ago... 35 boats with proper beat for about 6 miles, blast reach 11 miles w/Zero to fetch the turning mark, then up with the big 2A to run down another 26 miles.

About 8-14 kts of breeze throughout the day. Nice mix of boats in our fleet including 2 Tigers and a C32 Carbon. Reverse start so faster boats starting later and sailing through the fleet. Finished 2nd overall and 2nd in class. One Tiger got by us. Then we went into cruise mode and spent the following weekend at the Island. Fun boat.

 

 

Yes, we're steadily making small improvements that add up to more enjoyable sailing.  Still a long way to go in learning the boat, but it definitely feels much more manageable now.  We have our first longer race in a couple weeks and then that's it for the season.  

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1 hour ago, 95Terp said:

It wasn't as close as it looks, but the line was skewed so there was quite a party at the pin.  We also had the added fun of a large ship bearing down on the fleet right as we were approaching the first mark.  One of the complications of racing in a busy harbor.

 

Hah. This I can relate to. a mid-summer wednesday night in Boston Harbor with our fleet, the slolings, the Encore and lovejoy ferries, the occasional car carrier or LNG tanker, the entire MBTA fleet, whale watching, codzilla, and we haven't even gotten to the clueless PB's yet... :)

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Finally rigged the bobstay yesterday.  With the tension from the shockcord the pole binds up when we extend it and it's hard to get the last couple inches.  Anyone else have this problem?  

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I think I said 5/16” dia shock cord in this thread earlier... it should actually be 1/4”. Also- if still binding, you can Increase the length of your shock cord and stretch it over a longer distance when pole is retracted. When it’s the right length, it keeps the stay taught going upwind and does not hinder the pole when extending. Use quality cord like the robline dyneema cover. 

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