QBF

What brands from the 60s/70s/80s should never have been built?

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I nominate the Triumph Trimaran by Snark Products that gave me absolutely the worst sailboat outing I've ever experienced.  

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/8-foot-mystery-trimaran/

The boat was about 8-feet by 5-feet and was made in two pieces. The deck was one piece, covering all three hulls. The deck was also riveted to the hulls along the edge with 94 rivets. It used a lateen rig.

823000245_TriumphTrimaran.jpg.1192e7f3267e931a9ff02e16306b1878.jpg

I went out on that monstrosity just once, and came close to getting run over by a powerboat as the Triumph Trimaran couldn't get out of its own way. I ended up using the rudder as a sweep and was about to jump in and swim the thing out of the way when the skipper of the powerboat turned to avoid me.

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The Reinell 26. A friend of my dad's cajoled him to offer my brother and I as crew to help him learn to race his boat, during some Wed nighter. We had no idea what kind of boat it was ("It's a 26' racer/cruiser" my dad was told).

We showed up at the harbor and found this :

reinell_26_photo.jpg

Soon as I saw it, and was told that the keel looked like this:

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTm76JguseYm3JJgzseIvG

I knew it was going to be a long evening.

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44 minutes ago, Crash said:

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

I think the Bucc's have pretty well sewed up the prize for Worst Sailboat Ever Made.

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1 hour ago, Crash said:

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

You obviously never tried to sail a Triumph Trimaran! :mellow:

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In 1969, Chrysler decided to make a sport boat so they put a rig on an aluminum rowboat and cut a hole in the bottom for a dagger board and tried to sell it.  For some reason, they sent it to my college to have the sailing team test it out.  I had the pleasure of attempting to make it go in predictable directions, turn back and forth and then write a report. 

The thing wracked about 15° going "upwind" and "tacked" through about 120°.   The name probably indicates their target market.

I was not kind.  I think I said was as well made as their Plymouth Duster...then known as the worst car ever made.  

2128676648_ScreenShot2019-02-04at9_27_15AM.thumb.png.de7959d31d2526ae1ee4b627cd19c0d1.png

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30 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

In 1969, Chrysler decided to make a sport boat so they put a rig on an aluminum rowboat and cut a hole in the bottom for a dagger board and tried to sell it.  For some reason, they sent it to my college to have the sailing team test it out.  I had the pleasure of attempting to make it go in predictable directions, turn back and forth and then write a report. 

The thing wracked about 15° going "upwind" and "tacked" through about 120°.   The name probably indicates their target market.

I was not kind.  I think I said was as well made as their Plymouth Duster...then known as the worst car ever made.  

 

if think the 16 was bad,  you sail the  lonestar 13,   double lever activated  boards ...  lift one up, put the other down on a 13' boat

lone_star_13_drawing.jpg

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1 minute ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

if think the 16 was bad,  you sail the  lonestar 13,   double lever activated  boards ...  lift one up, put the other down on a 13' boat

lone_star_13_drawing.jpg

And the jib sheets to weather!  Perfect for heaving to on those Texas irrigation ponds.

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4 hours ago, QBF said:

You obviously never tried to sail a Triumph Trimaran! :mellow:

Sorry Crash, my comment was actually meant for Sloop!

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Probably any boat built by Snark. I learned how to sail on one of these. Never had to worry about scratching the gelcoat as the boat was some type of reinforced styrofoam.  

IMG_8451.JPG

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Yorktowns - any of them.

image.png.0daf57ed8cff977d7219978a39cf0768.pngimage.png.113624a0223d0de3b453227d4d66f224.pngimage.png.ad65f4af7fac36a220862d3c773765cf.pngimage.png.72a76f921d8ed6107eba392f08454cf7.png

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nice high dive on the upper left one though.

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11 minutes ago, eric1207 said:

nice high dive on the upper left one though.

It will only mitigate the agony if you dive into the cockpit.

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14 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

alcort sailfish     no cockpit whatsoever..   just why

 

640px-Alcort_Super_Sailfish_Zsa_Zsa.jpg

Swing and a miss at being the first windsurfer?

...or maybe it was, after the whole thing came apart in a breeze?

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1 hour ago, Svanen said:

hunter_marine_0_106553.jpg

The Hunters built in the 70's were pretty decent boats.

Many people are saying it.

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On 2/4/2019 at 12:09 PM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

Mariner

O'day Mariner 19? Surely you jest Dreade. I had some great times in one of those. And I think that they are back in production.

Image result for O'day Mariner 19

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31 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

O'day Mariner 19? Surely you jest Dreade. I had some great times in one of those. And I think that they are back in production.

Image result for O'day Mariner 19

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the 12.

 

The O'day was a good little boat

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2 minutes ago, Matt DI said:

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the 12.

 

The O'day was a good little boat

Oh, this turd that let assholes slam shut?

Image result for mariner 12 sailboat

 

     Guess you are right.

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On 2/4/2019 at 10:38 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

alcort sailfish     no cockpit whatsoever..   just why

 

640px-Alcort_Super_Sailfish_Zsa_Zsa.jpg

No way, I loved that thing!!!  We'd only take ours out in 15 kts or more and lots of waves..... reaching back and forth , 2-3 kids at a time and we could swamp the entire hull in a wave and all the water and at least one kid would be spit out the back.

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 10:38 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

alcort sailfish     no cockpit whatsoever..   just why

 

640px-Alcort_Super_Sailfish_Zsa_Zsa.jpg

Are you kidding? These things were so popular that Alcort could barely keep up the pace building them. Super cheap and homebuild kits available. The sailfish is a piece of history.

Now the snark....any boat that you could get for free if you bought enough Kool or Marlborough cigarettes had to be cool! Or not! LOL. 

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It was cool back then because smoking was cool.

I knew a girl in high school who drove a blue & white Mustang with a huge Players logo on the hood - it was some kind of promotional car and was very cool (not Kool).

image.png.f4d3e5f8357cb4a37de455d64672922d.png

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

The Hunters built in the 70's were pretty decent boats.

Many people are saying it.

Hunter has to be on the list. Its the only boat company I know of that would void their warranty if you painted their rudders a dark color. Dark painted rudders would absorb too much heat from the sun, then split when on the hard.

"We do not recommend the use of dark color bottom paint for your rudder, as they generate heat whenever your boat is out of the water and in the sun. Since your rudder is made of cellular material this heat can cause dimensional changes and cosmetic damage. If the rudder is painted a dark color it should be shielded from the sun with a white wrapping whenever the boat is out of the water. YOUR RUDDER WARRANTY EXCLUDES DAMAGE CAUSED BY HEAT."

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

Oh, this turd that let assholes slam shut?

Image result for mariner 12 sailboat

 

     Guess you are right.

Yup. A famous Ted Turner quote: "Jesus Britt - even turds are tapered on both ends!"

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6 minutes ago, 'Bacco said:

Hunter has to be on the list. Its the only boat company I know of that would void their warranty if you painted their rudders a dark color. Dark painted rudders would absorb too much heat from the sun, then split when on the hard.

"We do not recommend the use of dark color bottom paint for your rudder, as they generate heat whenever your boat is out of the water and in the sun. Since your rudder is made of cellular material this heat can cause dimensional changes and cosmetic damage. If the rudder is painted a dark color it should be shielded from the sun with a white wrapping whenever the boat is out of the water. YOUR RUDDER WARRANTY EXCLUDES DAMAGE CAUSED BY HEAT."

The Hunter Cherubini were "okay" boats in the '70's up to very early '80's.  But later than that - yikes! Some of the stories are downright scary. 

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30 minutes ago, 'Bacco said:

Hunter has to be on the list. Its the only boat company I know of that would void their warranty if you painted their rudders a dark color. Dark painted rudders would absorb too much heat from the sun, then split when on the hard.

"We do not recommend the use of dark color bottom paint for your rudder, as they generate heat whenever your boat is out of the water and in the sun. Since your rudder is made of cellular material this heat can cause dimensional changes and cosmetic damage. If the rudder is painted a dark color it should be shielded from the sun with a white wrapping whenever the boat is out of the water. YOUR RUDDER WARRANTY EXCLUDES DAMAGE CAUSED BY HEAT."

Good advice for most cored rudders.   Differential sun heating on one side of a rudder can badly distort the shell, especially if there's been any water intrusion.  A lot of yards will wrap black rudders in white plastic.  I had one rudder ruined that way years ago on a previous boat and now have the yard wrap the rudder anytime we are hauled out.  

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2 hours ago, Rasputin22 said:

O'day Mariner 19? Surely you jest Dreade. I had some great times in one of those. And I think that they are back in production.

Image result for O'day Mariner 19

 

sorry  America Cup boat..   not oday's

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1 hour ago, GTim said:

Are you kidding? These things were so popular that Alcort could barely keep up the pace building them. Super cheap and homebuild kits available. The sailfish is a piece of history.

Now the snark....any boat that you could get for free if you bought enough Kool or Marlborough cigarettes had to be cool! Or not! LOL. 

nope,  pain to sail..   when the sunfish ramped up , they all but disappeared in the NE..    maybe in fla where you had beaches

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I am going to stretch the timeline and offer another trimaran that should not have been built. This one is of recent vintage... 

image.jpeg.42a5ce10ba1daf14f0509004b10d2b5f.jpeg

 

image.jpeg.40dcebecfb2606e9638999991cede1af.jpeg

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On 2/4/2019 at 10:38 AM, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

alcort sailfish     no cockpit whatsoever..   just why

 

640px-Alcort_Super_Sailfish_Zsa_Zsa.jpg

I remember the Sailfish somewhat fondly.  When you're 11 or 12, it's a lot easier to deal with the contortions.  And it was easier to right after a capsize than a Sunny.

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On ‎2‎/‎4‎/‎2019 at 11:12 AM, Crash said:

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

Bayliner Buccaneer 240

Was sailing out of Ft. Myers with a friend on his Ranger 23 (that he later single handed across the Atlantic, Ft. Lauderdale to France) and we went by one of these.  He hailed to them, and without a bit of irony in his voice, yelled "She's a beauty!"  The skipper was beaming.  Hey, they were out sailing.

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1 hour ago, bridhb said:

Was sailing out of Ft. Myers with a friend on his Ranger 23 (that he later single handed across the Atlantic, Ft. Lauderdale to France) and we went by one of these.  He hailed to them, and without a bit of irony in his voice, yelled "She's a beauty!"  The skipper was beaming.  Hey, they were out sailing.

Good on him! Any boat, no matter how horrible, is the owner's pride and joy.

Sailing suffers when we belittle each other up with snide remarks. And more generally, we should never miss a chance to make someone feel good with a compliment.

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In situations like that I prefer to be more truthful - things like "Great day huh" do the same thing without blatantly and shamelessly lying like your friend. ;)

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But it doesn't have to be a lie. It's usually possible to come up with a sincere compliment. E.g., that boat may have been well-maintained and so a beautiful example of her type. Or you can praise someone on how nicely their lines are coiled, what a professional job they did docking the boat, or whatever. Such a thoughtful remark will have so much more impact than a meaningless, generic comment about the weather.

Provided it's not overdone and said with a smile, almost all people enjoy receiving sincere praise from a passerby. Why not make someone feel good about themselves?

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On 2/4/2019 at 6:41 PM, SloopJonB said:

Yorktowns - any of them.

image.png.0daf57ed8cff977d7219978a39cf0768.pngimage.png.113624a0223d0de3b453227d4d66f224.pngimage.png.ad65f4af7fac36a220862d3c773765cf.pngimage.png.72a76f921d8ed6107eba392f08454cf7.png

That is definitely a "Multi-Category" winner right there. The 2nd one from the left makes my eyes hurt. 

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I know nothing about Yorktowns or Clippers, and perhaps they were real dogs. However, FWIW there's more to a boat than looks.

Johann Tanzer's designs were homely, but they sailed well and the build quality was good. The 70's and 80's would not have been better without them. Sometimes function trumps form, especially on a budget. 

main.jpg

20130714_165242.jpg

 

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The Tanzer 22 is a classic, I don't think it's particularly ugly. I have a hard time loving the bigger boats.

tanzer-105-cc-pilot-house.jpg

 

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Tanzer 10.5 is a really nice boat. AFAIK it was designed by Dick Carter, although Johann Tanzer had some modest input. 

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Tanzer 22 is a great boat.  Growing up we sailed Catalina 22s out of Oceanside and a Tanzer in Puget Sound and the Tanzer was just so much more boat in every possible way.

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I am NOT a Tanzer fan at all, but I respect that people do love them.  Not my cup of tea.

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I am a little surprised that no one else has admitted to sailing a Triumph Trimaran.  

Maybe admitting to sailing one is like it was in the 1960's when people were asked if they listen to POP music. The answer was always a resounding NO!

However, it was not uncommon back then to go over to someone's house to hear a POP song being played at a loud volume.  When confronted, the person would say "It's my sister (or brother) that is listening to that stuff even though there was no one else in the house!

I would give you an example of the POP music in question during that period, but I'm not able to do so as I never listened to it! :ph34r:

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The Monkees, The Archies

Or so I've been told.

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On 2/5/2019 at 1:24 PM, Rasputin22 said:

O'day Mariner 19? Surely you jest Dreade. I had some great times in one of those. And I think that they are back in production.

Image result for O'day Mariner 19

Learned to sailed on a Daysailer. Next came the Mariner. We loved it.

Loved the O'Days, took the boat to the Keys almost every weekend. Rigged it Friday and it stayed on a mooring until late Sunday.

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I did some great single handed cruises up and down the West Coast of Florida on an old Mariner that a buddy paid $1000 for. He liked to brag that he could take his gal out a nice daysail and he would activate a tiller tender he had made and they would crawl up in the V berth and do the stabbing cabin routine. The boat was pretty sensitive to heel for the locked tiller to keep the boat going straight which let him do a push up while in the missionary position ane peek out the open foredeck hatch to see where they were headed and if needed roll onto one side or the other of the V berth to keep them on course while in the throes of coupling! 

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1 hour ago, Rasputin22 said:

I did some great single handed cruises up and down the West Coast of Florida on an old Mariner that a buddy paid $1000 for. He liked to brag that he could take his gal out a nice daysail and he would activate a tiller tender he had made and they would crawl up in the V berth and do the stabbing cabin routine. The boat was pretty sensitive to heel for the locked tiller to keep the boat going straight which let him do a push up while in the missionary position ane peek out the open foredeck hatch to see where they were headed and if needed roll onto one side or the other of the V berth to keep them on course while in the throes of coupling! 

Nothing like a coupling upwind in a hobby horsing Catalina 22 with a reefed main and timing your orgasm to the...

oh wait, wrong forum again.:ph34r:  A Complete Dictionary of the Most Bizarre Sex Slang - Broadly

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On 2/4/2019 at 6:01 PM, SailMoore1 said:

Probably any boat built by Snark. I learned how to sail on one of these. Never had to worry about scratching the gelcoat as the boat was some type of reinforced styrofoam.  

IMG_8451.JPG

IIRC, we had a thread several years ago on how many at SA had sailed a Snark.  Very high percentage had.

I had one and at age 16, rigged up a way to carry it atop a "Spridget" with the top town.  That, a small cooler and a nubile young lady at a local lake made for a great afternoon.  

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18 hours ago, Teener said:

Tanzer 22 is a great boat.  Growing up we sailed Catalina 22s out of Oceanside and a Tanzer in Puget Sound and the Tanzer was just so much more boat in every possible way.

 

18 hours ago, Teener said:

Tanzer 22 is a great boat.  Growing up we sailed Catalina 22s out of Oceanside and a Tanzer in Puget Sound and the Tanzer was just so much more boat in every possible way.

The Tanzer 22 was actually based on the Tempest hull mold.  So it did have some pedigree.

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50 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

 

The Tanzer 22 was actually based on the Tempest hull mold.  So it did have some pedigree.

the Oday Tempest?

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Rhodes 22. I know some people like them. I spent too much time on one. 

C008C268-B7AB-4263-B02B-3BB9BC835211.jpeg

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On 2/6/2019 at 4:02 PM, Ishmael said:

The Tanzer 22 is a classic, I don't think it's particularly ugly. I have a hard time loving the bigger boats.

tanzer-105-cc-pilot-house.jpg

 

I haven’t seen one of those on the East Coast. 

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evasion-25-05-140313-185711.jpg

Evasion 25

That's a Bénéteau before the first era! These were long keelers barely more efficient than smoke to go upwind!

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10 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

MEGA 30  

th.jpeg.c148f08b14f9c51090b144df3acd1e3e.jpeg

That's just one boat. The rest of the brand is good.

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On 2/5/2019 at 1:53 PM, Ishmael said:

Let us not forget Mariner outboard motors.

s-l300.jpg

Other than being a mild annoyance, not sure why you’d mention them in this thread. They’re identical twins to Mercury’s, and they’re both beating Yamaha for reliability. They’re built to an over the top level of quality control. 

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3 minutes ago, Monkey said:

Other than being a mild annoyance, not sure why you’d mention them in this thread. They’re identical twins to Mercury’s, and they’re both beating Yamaha for reliability. They’re built to an over the top level of quality control. 

My mechanic called Mercury outboards "Welfare Motors"......

 

 

 

 

 

They're Big....

They're Black.....

And they don't like to work!

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14 minutes ago, silent bob said:

My mechanic called Mercury outboards "Welfare Motors"......

 

 

 

 

 

They're Big....

They're Black.....

And they don't like to work!

Thank you for your contribution.  

We now know you won't be running for political office anytime soon.

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36 minutes ago, silent bob said:

My mechanic called Mercury outboards "Welfare Motors"......

 

 

 

 

 

They're Big....

They're Black.....

And they don't like to work!

Your mechanic is an asshole.

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MFG's sad litany of overweight boats comes to mind, the Clipper having already been mentioned. That Triumph Tri is a new one on me - what about that strange one-man boat where you sat in   front of the sail and   steered with your feet.

 

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What is so BAD about these awful boats is they helped kill off the sport during a boom era- one has to wonder how many owners stayed  in and bought ANOTHER boat after these terrible things.

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11 minutes ago, Great Red Shark said:

What is so BAD about these awful boats is they helped kill off the sport during a boom era- one has to wonder how many owners stayed  in and bought ANOTHER boat after these terrible things.

A lot of these boats made their owners happy. Sure, they weren’t the latest and greatest, and got mocked by all the cool kids with the fancy boats, but to the owner at some point in time it was their pride and joy. I remember seeing a lot of boats like Venture 22’s sailing fairly often, while cool kids in the C&C’s looked down their noses at them while swilling cheap white wine. If I ever get on a stripped out race boat again with all the attendant semi pro pricks that come along with them, it will be too soon. It’s the sailmaker and designer pricks that killed the sport, along with the lowlifes paid to pull ropes for a living, not the boat the cool kids here deem as unworthy.

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Nobody that bought a Sidewinder developed a love for the sport until they got another boat.

It's like making an entry-market motorcycle that is heavy, ill-handling and unreliable - it COSTS you customers eventually.

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I am not a fan of the West Wight Potter

Image result for West Wight Potter

They look like a cartoon.

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3 hours ago, MauiPunter said:

I am not a fan of the West Wight Potter

Image result for West Wight Potter

They look like a cartoon.

Who was the guy who looked at the drawings & said "yep that's perfect,  don't change a thing,  I'm going to build it just like that!"

 

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11 hours ago, Great Red Shark said:

Nobody that bought a Sidewinder developed a love for the sport until they got another boat.

It's like making an entry-market motorcycle that is heavy, ill-handling and unreliable - it COSTS you customers eventually.

Its too bad, because you kind of wanted to like the sidewinder because the hull was kind of badass looking for the time, but everything else about it was shit.

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20 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Rhodes 22. I know some people like them. I spent too much time on one. 

C008C268-B7AB-4263-B02B-3BB9BC835211.jpeg

Looks especially  appealing decked out in red...red...red and...red.

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Not to mention that he has flip down seats with red cushions and the custom stern rail  with custom red lifeline pad for sitting outboard!

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10 hours ago, TUBBY said:

Who was the guy who looked at the drawings & said "yep that's perfect,  don't change a thing,  I'm going to build it just like that!"

 

An Englishman.

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34 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

An Englishman.

surprised it didn't end up with bilge keels then.

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