Grith

Remote Cruising on Trailable Yachts

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Hi All I am wading in here and expecting flack from knockers given the history I have seen on this site. I have been sailing for coming up on exactly 50 years having started in Hartley16 Trailer Sailers at 10 years old. I have sailed on over 100 different yachts from many varieties of Trailer Sailers right up to racing on maxi’s. I have owned 10 TS’s over my life and inshore waters “camper sailed” ( as I call it on small no standing head room trailable yachts ) for months on end on several occassions and plenty of other several week trips. I have successfully raced and won many events on TS’s and other yachts when younger but have been using TS’s on and off as a camping platform for many years. 

 Now for the potentially controversial bit. I now own and have commenced cruising an Imexus 28 with 180hp Yanmar Inboard with the intention of doing 2-4 month’s trips in the Kimberley’s in North West Western Australia. 

These waters are shallow ( in fact you can dry out and watch the water disappear over the horizon with 10 meter tides), the tidal races can exceed 10 knots,( if fact very famously one pinch point is known as the horizontal falls as the water rushing through there is amazing), service centres can be hundreds of miles away in some sections and the area is infested by some of the worlds biggest crocodiles. 

It is also truly spectacular, often uncharted for very shallow draft boats and one of the last true water accessed wildernesses in the Western World. 

My choice of a large, solid, trailable, water ballasted, yacht with immense powering ability along with good cruising sailing ability has been after detailed research and a fair bit of onwater testing of a variety of choices. 

Friends of mine have sailed the area extensively for nearly 30 years in a Court 750 which are a Western Australian designed and constructed 25 foot swing keel trailer sailer of around 40 year old design. They have a 9.9 four stroke outboard, hard plastic dual skin dingy and are highly regarded TS cruising sailers having originally commenced sailing in their fifties. 

I live in NSW so the first challenge is towing right across the continent even to get to this destination but have already towed my yacht from purchase in WA to NSW involving an over 3000 mile tow so I am perfectly aware of what’s involved in this part of a challenging set of expeditions. 

The Macgregor knockers on this site are legion but the concept Roger sold to so many ( perhaps more than any other production yacht in history) has its base in the flexibility of providing a camping platform which does sail at cruising speed, does motor at modest power boat speeds and does camp on land and water at 16-18 foot caravan or small trailable houseboat equivilent comfort. They are way more capable than many daysailers at providing a safe family sailing experience and all with the back up of a serious motor to run for cover in a brewing storm or beat the standard hull speed yachts back to the ramp or bar by sometimes hours on those millpond days. It is amazing also how a closed door toilet compartment on a small boat can encourage otherwise reluctant friends and partners onboard. Sad I know but an unfortunate fact of life these days. 

The Imexus 28 is a big step up again in all areas with the main disadvantage being a significantly higher towing weight and particularly in America due to the cost of importation a much higher price. In Europe when the importation is the other way the cost of buying both new wasn’t really that significant given the huge differences in quality and ability in all areas.

Other things affecting my choice were: 

The region I now live in has many potentially very dangerous rivermouth entries to the ocean protected by shallow sand bars with breaking waves at times. ( big engine allows powering in and out under control) 

I have a sailing ( races a dingy class called Flying Ants) Daughter with non sailing friends we take tubing, kneeboarding etc which helps keep her engaged with her peers as a very late only child of a now divorced dad. 

The Imexus 28 is superbly set up for single handed mast erection and reverse with an intergrated system which stays permenantly attached also allowing very easy one person on water lowering for bridges and powerlines which infest inland waters around here. 

It has huge storage and carrying capacity for its size and length and I substitute some of its 730kgs of water ballast carrying capacity for cruising equipment, fresh water and stores including my 3 batteries.  I still retain the ability to add this 730 kgs extra stability and mass quickly when it is rarely required in extreme conditions. 

The water ballast tank also provides a double skin hull providing I hope an entirely unnecessary back up against accidental holing in the extreme and uncharted waters of the Kimberleys. 

I also run two 100 liter fresh water flexible ballast tanks with high speed transfer pump in some conditions  whilst in others they provide a further 200 litres of drinking water in addition to my 175liters in two main tanks. 

All in all this is a unique and unusual cruising package complete with many creature comforts only found on much larger cruising yachts all in a road legal trailable format allowing quick access to a huge variety of cruising destinations many of which are denied to conventional cruising yachts. 

I hope for advise and support rather than the legion of knockers often found here and await with interest. 

Regards Graeme Kangaroo Valley NSW Australia ( yes I actually live in Kangaroo Valley) 

 

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Doug is that you ?

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Well they weren't the knockers I was expecting! Just might need a big donk to handle those ones. :)

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Remote cruising on trailerable yachts

Up here we generally do without a trailer for our remote control yachts.

I know they speak to some people, but personally I’d prefer a cartop dinghy.   

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Ha Ha At least it’s reopened the thread to some comment. It just died after the knockers. :) 

I am still trying to get people to think about using a large trailer sailer for remote AREA extended cruising. I gave up and started some other treads which  have gained some traction now. 

Bloody near need a trailer for that sized remote control yacht! Scale without reference however can be deceptive. 

Seems like a bit of controversy is the way to get a discussion going on Anarchy for both good and bad. 

Happy sailing Graeme 

 

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This is more my style for a large trailer power sailor, in the spirit of your thread. Most retired people here do the land barge route or the powered oxygen tent.

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/boa/d/port-townsend-nimble-motorsailer-32/6826780750.html

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Hi Norse Horse Looks like a bit of a monster to tow and sail to me unless constantly sailing in absolutely miserable conditions. Inside helming positions and no vision to sail from the cockpit really is motor boating with a stabilising sail I feel. Prefer my style Motor Sailer with 25-30knots available depending on how loaded up it is for cruising and the ability to sail like a regular yacht. 

Just wait until you get old and some young fit guy is making cracks about you needing an oxygen tent.LOL!  :)

Not all of us older bastards are ready for the old folks home yet. :)  My much older again friends have been doing serious multi month remote wilderness adventure trips on their Court 750 for nearly 30 years until very recently and are now in their early eighties. 

Regards Graeme 

Photo below at 18 knots as at 23 they were flying not tubing and I didn’t have a spare hand for the camera.

 

 

 

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G'day Graham,

                  no your not crazy, far from it. With careful planning and the right safety gear and provisions you should be able to have the adventure of a lifetime. I would point you to a another forum called "The Trailer Sailer Place"  Its the Aussie site not the American one.  A few of the members of done this cruise extensively and are happy to impart their knowledge. A member called Bosun Bob and his wife Anne did this trip a number of years ago on their sonta 26.  Their is a log of their journey on the site. Great reading. A search of the site will also locate others posts on what you are contemplating.

 

Greg H

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Hi Greg Thanks for you input. I actually sail out of Bosun Bob and Ann’s club which is the Illawarra Yacht Club in NSW ( my yacht is parked around four down from their Sonata 7 “Bosun”)  and know a number of Australia’s leading cruising TS Sailer personally. I have also contibuted to the Trailer Sailer Place Forums you have recommended in Australia. I have been active on a number of forums in the attempt to raise the profile of cruising on Trailer Sailers having noted the dramatic decline in numbers out in the usual haunts whilst watching the explosion of caravans and motorhomes exploring Australia and grey nomading. Many of those currently cruising trailer sailers are getting even way older than me (pushing 60) and I was just hoping to encourage a few more people of around my generation and younger to consider the adventurous trailer sailing alternative to the relatively sedate caravanning type travel. I expected a fair number of detractors on this site given its particular history easpecially as my own yacht selection is fairly controversial but I was looking to generate conversation and am happy that some have picked up on this already. Kind Regards Graeme 

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I thoroughly enjoy cruising my tornado with wing seats about the west coast of canada. I was inspired by Duncan Ross and Beta Pandiani when they crossed Drake Passage. I'm in my 50's and love beach camping on this craft ,and you can pick them up cheap like borscht. I launch mine in the spring in canada on a single load from my buddies pickup truck and pack it in in the fall. The most fun for the $ I've found anywhere. The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure 

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Hi Funslut Yes I have done lots of expeditions on small stuff myself like the Hobie Adventure Islands pictured below. This was a multi day camping trip a couple of years ago with my daughter and a school friend of hers who had never even been camping before this. 25 years ago my then partner and I did a big multiweek inshore cruise around Shark Bay in Western Australia in a Hartley 16 which really isn’t that much bigger than a tornado. There have been several significant journeys made here in Australia with beach cats and Hobie AI’s including following the Whale Migration most of the way down the East Coast Of Oz beach camping each night. 

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12 hours ago, Funslut said:

I thoroughly enjoy cruising my tornado with wing seats about the west coast of canada. I was inspired by Duncan Ross and Beta Pandiani when they crossed Drake Passage. I'm in my 50's and love beach camping on this craft ,and you can pick them up cheap like borscht. I launch mine in the spring in canada on a single load from my buddies pickup truck and pack it in in the fall. The most fun for the $ I've found anywhere. The smaller the boat, the bigger the adventure 

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Hi Funslut A search of the internet didn’t turn up anything about the journey you mentioned above. Have you got a link or a lead. Regards Graeme 

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They've done lots of other passages too.

 

 

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Hi Funslut Thanks very interesting. The guys who did the East Coast of Aus here were a bit more completely self contained on their Hobie 16 cat like yours appears to be. One of my previous long range cruising Trailer Sailers was also a Catamaran but a 20 foot bridge deck one with a double bed and two singles, kitchen and marine toilet so a bit of a half way house between a  tramp only cat and my current maxi trailer sailer. Nowhere near as quick as your Tornado or their cats but capable of sleeping/cooking on at anchor whilst still reaching many shallow destinations and occassionally motoring up to 16 knots when needed. Regards Graeme 

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Um, Grith, I know that Funslut suggested that you use a small boat for your travels.  But he was on the west coast of Canada, where the most dangerous creature is a gang of these guys (ahhhh, how sweet :wub: ):

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P.s., the population of these guys is growing in Canada. Probably because in Canada we provide good habitat for them (e.g., in the form of bull-rails, which they happily use for sunning; although we provide these as much to peeve DDW :P as to please the otters)

But I'm surprised that you would even consider this alternative, given that you (as you have noted) have to deal with these guys in the Kimberley's of NW Aussieland :o:

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If you want some scale for that picture, then I think that the trailer for your planned boat would fit this guy nicely.  And I don't think that cleats (eng.) aka taquets (fr.) would slow them down, either (sorry, DDW).  So might I suggest that you think in the direction of a bigger boat!!!  And with even more horsepower!!!  Besides, I agree with you that Ishmael's knockers are going to need some room just to turn around inside your boat.  Although I suppose that the counter argument is that you'll be thrilled to stand in close quarters while this happens.  Hmm, how to make the trade-off between avoiding the terror of a croc, or seeking the titillation of, well, you know ... ;)

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Hi J Yep I know a bit about the threat from Crocs as friends have TS cruised there extensively. My 28 foot long high sided TS should generally be fine but not going anywhere near the Kimberley’s on a tramp cat or Hobie AI.

Lots of smaller fishing boats and dingies do move around in croc infested waters but you wouldn’t sleep the night on the them or try to camp on shore in many areas. 

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BTW Both Funslut and J Whilst there are no crocs to worry about inshore or inland cruising in Canada what about on land based predators whilst needing to camp onshore? There is no comfy car or 4x4 close by to retreat into when a bear or other similar peak predator smells the fish you are cooking. I think like now with the crocs here in Aus the numbers are probably growing due to conservation activities and hunting bans. Oh and I also feel I have just a tiny bit more chance of getting one of Ishmael's knockers to come onboard and play wake generation games than offering them a cruise/camp on an open cat! All other things being equal of course. :) Inside shot of Imexus 28 showing some comfortable cruising  attributes.

.

 

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"Um, Grith, I know that Funslut suggested that you use a small boat for your travels.  But he was on the west coast of Canada, where the most dangerous creature is a gang of these guys (ahhhh, how sweet  ):"

 

It would appear that J The Landlocked Dreamer is exactly that and has very little actual experience on the west coast of Canada ,as I routinely encounter  Steller Sea Lions ,which are top level carnivores that are about 10 feet long ,weigh about 2,000 lbs. and can be quite aggressive and intimidating. One of them could easily destroy my boat in seconds. I have also encountered Orcas, also known as Killer Whales but, using basic common sense around any wild animals, has always served me well, including bears and mountain lions when camping ashore in these parts.

As Chopper Reid would say, "Harden the fuck up people." 

Ps.  Fast boats=fast women

 

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Hi Funslut Yes I would have thought that was the case myself. I still feel in my areas case that sleeping onboard a pretty substantial yacht beats playing hide and seek with a 5 metre croc on-shore.  :) 

I have had lots of wild animal experiences myself including snorkeling with playful sea lions off Garden Island in Perth.  Being an ex outdoors pursuits instructor leading wilderness trips I generally agree about all wildlife but a friend of mine in a sea kayak was grabbed by a croc and death rolled and was very lucky to roll up and break its grip. I think his 200 meter sprint away from it may have broken an Olympic record. :) 

PS 30 plus knots fast enough you think? Admittedly unloaded but that was the engine commissioning trials WOT top speed of my TS. 

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2 hours ago, Funslut said:

It would appear that J The Landlocked Dreamer is exactly that and has very little actual experience on the west coast of Canada ,as I routinely encounter  Steller Sea Lions

Yeah, yeah, yeah; details, details.  So I took some poetic licence :D.  Otters ARE cute as the dickens.  And that picture is what I could quickly get my hands on earlier today.  But I'm home now.  So I pulled out some of my OWN pictures, in order to show that yes, I am familiar with Sea Lions.  Also, to show that while it is true that I am currently land-locked, I was once very familiar with the West Coast B).  These next two pictures were taken just off of the Carmanah Point Light Station (CPLS is in the background of the second picture).  I took them when I was working as a 'Hiker's Advisor' on the West Coast Trail, in Pacific Rim National Park.

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Personally, I always found them to be friendly and curious, and not threatening <maybe they just recognized my own friendly, fun personality? :)>.  Here is a cool video of this behaviour (with divers) in BC:

 

2 hours ago, Funslut said:

... but, using basic common sense around any wild animals, has always served me well, including bears and mountain lions when camping ashore in these parts.

Yes, I fully agree about using 'common sense' around wildlife (be it sea life or land life).  For example, there are times that I'll steer well clear of bears (Black, Grizzly, and particularly Polar ... ;) and grouchy sailors).  But there are other times that you can read body language, and know that you are quite safe.  For example, the next picture is of a Grizzly Bear.  I took it when I was doing some work in Banff National Park.  He knew that I was there, and I knew that he was there.  He was contentedly eating flower heads.  From experience and training I could well read the situation.  I safely passed within about 30 m of him <but don't try this at home, tourists; I've seen tourists do very uninformed things, like purposefully approach and pressure a mom Griz and two cubs - sheesh!>  Conversely, I once passed a mom and two cubs who were on a steep avalanche slope; she turned to our helicopter, beckoned us with a wiggled claw, and clearly said "I dare you to fly a little closer, boys". Uh uh!>

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Going back to the West Coast Trail (and admittedly going off on a tangent), this last picture is of one of DDW's earlier boats.  I forget which cove this was; you'll have to ask him.  He clearly had refused to use our bull-rails <a 'bull' being the link to 'wildlife'; get it?>.  And look where it got him.  No common sense, that boy. :P

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Your video of the sea lions was very much my experience at Garden Island in Western Australia as well and one in particular played hide and seek with me for around 15 minutes including his version of tag which was diving out of hiding in the sea grass an putting his face right on my snorkeling mask. He actually took me for a little ride a one point so I always felt he may have had a human handler or carer at one stage in his life or was a released performer but viewing your video perhaps they are just like that. I felt very privileged but only have a few underwater photos taken by a friend to verify this experience not a lovely video.  I have unfortunately not got to this spectacular area in your photos despite extensive travels which have included one brief trip to the US to Kayak the Grand Canyon which included my only time in Canada which was just a side trip to Montreal to visit one of my ex partners best friends. Your shots may inspire me to use some of my limited retirement funds to come over for a more extended tour around. Can you let me know what bull-rails are as I am unfamiliar with that term. Regards Graeme :)

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I've hiked and sea kayaked an awful lot in BC over the years. Black bears don't scare me. Usually bang some pots and pans and make a fuss and they wander or run off. (yes exceptions for moms with cubs)

Grizzly bears do scare the shit out of me. They are peak predators but are much less common than black bears fortunately.

Crocs in N. Queensland also scared me.

I think you're much more scared of what you don't know.

Sea Otters: when my wife was a teenager sailing out of Comox as a sailing instructor she used to share her lunch with a sea otter on the dock. He liked cheese sandwiches for some reason.

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Just to be clear,  the animals shown in the above video are California Sea Lions and are much smaller and less dangerous to humans than the Steller Sea Lion of which I was talking about.

Also, a so called "sailboat", that does 30 knots by motoring is a motorboat with a mast and guaranteed to sail like a pig. A Tornado "sails" at 30 knots! 

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Hi Funslut Sailing speed on cruising yachts isn’t that relevant for long range multi week stays and yes I am aware that Tornados have achieved up to those speeds having sailed on them myself! You made a crack about fast speeds and fast women and offering skiing pulls more chicks than sailing in my experience. :) 

As for comparing a cruising oriented TS to a tornado that’s kind of like comparing a fully kitted Motorhome to a Racing car I feel. I have owned both and both have their uses and specialities at which they excel. Both my two (at different times and for different uses) briefly owned motorhomes and my current trailable yacht have comfortable queen sized beds, standing headroom, a lounging dining area, a fridge with cold ones and a shower/toilet.

My daughters first car in which ex motor racing dad is teaching her to drive is however a very cheap but very high performance four wheel drive tiny turbo charged two seat sports car. Guess what your Tornado and it have in common? 

Regards Graeme 

 

 

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Hi All Taking the motorhome to sports car to racing dingy/cat or sports boat to trailable cruising yacht analogy a bit further.

What you can do in a sports car is totally different to what you want to achieve out of a motorhome. I feel my current trailable yacht is kind of the water based version of the Range Rover based selectable 6 wheel drive monster motorhome I owned briefly in my twenties. (early 80's) 

Lots of tech, lots of serious different capabilities to most " normal" motorhomes and some constraints along with this.  It had 240litres of fuel capacity, 300 litres of water carrying capacity two queen sized beds and a completely stainless lined shower/toilet from the Indian Pacific train 1st class sleeper carriages, airconditioned even way back then and with a motor bike carrying rack and generator linked directly to the fuel tanks . With cabin selectable six wheel drive on huge sand tyres it eventually spent most of its life as a gold prospectors movable base way out in the Australian Desert for which it was very suited.

I didn't build it but did enjoy my relatively brief ownership. It was know locally as the Strange Rover!  I will try to dig up some old photos and scan them just for fun. :)

My more recent one (in 2002) was a more conventional secondhand KNAUS German A Class and provided a mobile base for myself and ex partner for 4 months touring southern Europe and was only 18 foot long being much more suitable for tighter European roads and towns. It still had a queen sized permanently made up bed along with dinette/shower toilet, kitchen, central heating etc. It saved a huge amount of accommodation and eating out costs whilst we explored, walked and visited lots of places bringing down this trip including buy and sell to under what many backpackers expended achieving way less.

At the same time I own and have owned and raced sports cars and sports yachts and love them. I don't dis owners of anything as long as they can show fit for purpose and achieve their owners goals effectively. 

Regards Graeme

 

 

 

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Hi All Photos here of my weird and unusual 6 wheel drive Range Rover based motorhome I briefly owned  37 years ago. Another left of centre take on the conventional in its field. Someone has to dare to be different. :) Regards Graeme 

PS the two spares either side for the Strange Rover were securely locked inside the body attached to a special lever lifting device to allow them to be lowered and raised without huge effort.

I feel that’s the equivalent of the permanately mounted mast raising and lowing device that is built into the Imexus 28 and stays in place at all times allowing easy mast raising and lowering by one person. 

Images Below Motoring equivilent of my Imexus 28, followed by motoring equivalent of Funslut’s Tornado. Horses for courses, both innovative but very different. :) I completely understand most of us lusting after driving my friends Maclaren but I would sure as hell prefer to spend a couple of weeks living in the Stange Rover if out in extreme wilderness. 

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Hi  bmiller. Yes pretty remote but looking at that little slide on I don’t think the accommadation is more luxurious than my old Jarcat 6 TS. My guess is over cab bed, dinette and kitchen stove and sink with slide out porta potty at best. :) The shot below was taken from a cave on a hill near where we were camping/living onboard. I recon I have other shots in the old photo album with my old Jarcat 6 which offered more accommadation options than that camper in desert spots in the middle of Aus remote enough to rival that one of yours. But with the TS when I finally got back to water it was back to sailing. LOL 

 

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Hey forgot to mention. A careful viewing of that cave photo with the Jarcat and you can see a circling wedge tailed eagle. Must have figured a yacht must have been lost and we were dying out there and was looking for carrion! 

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11 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hey forgot to mention. A careful viewing of that cave photo with the Jarcat and you can see a circling wedge tailed eagle. Must have figured a yacht must have been lost and we were dying out there and was looking for carrion! 

I used to help with the eagle count in Squamish every January. I would paddle up Judd Slough and the creek and sneak up and count birds. One year I used mt Dagger Ultrafuge ww kayak that was salmon red with a burgundy mix and some yellow blotches. Wow, did I get the eagle eye as I lay still counting flypasts and quietly working my way up the creek to the indian reserve.

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Fun sluts, knockers, and single-handed erections?  I thought this was a sailing site.

@GrithF-boats not on your list?  Bigger than a Tornado (but almost as fast, and more croc-proof?).  Smaller than an Imexus (but way more fun to sail?).

Sounds like you might want more comfort than others 'round here, and than most F-boats offer, unless you can afford an F-33AX, say...

Yeah, I'm selling my book...

b2b
F31 #30001

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Hi B2B I have owned a Farrier 680TT as part of my research and looked carefully at big trimarans for my purposes but went a different direction. 

I hardly think I am seeking more comfort than most on this site with the huge number owing big keel boats or huge cats of various kinds and others offering up expedition ships and monster power boats as solutions to cruising. 

I just think it just is a gap in the middle between those to whom sailing is racing and or going fast and those who spend most of their time using their boats as very occassionally mobile party platforms. Also I was very happy camping for sometimes weeks on end on little trailable yachts for many years but the carrying capacity and livability are now inadequate for my planned months on end uses. 

Real long range, long term live aboard cruisers that actually travel a lot ( not just  grow barnacles on their mooring ropes and or anchors ) generally look for quite different things than those who focus on a need for speed or the best party platform. Most of them however dream of ocean crossing or a least long offshore passages and don’t have my focus on remote coastal and inland waterways exploring. 

As for your F-33AX suggestion or own F31. They are a great and very fast yachts but a bitch to tow and to launch especially in remote places and also loading big trailer tri’s with several months of supplies kind of wrecks much of their performance edge. Many ramps and launching locations are also unsuited to the farrier big fold up spider type launching and folding requirements versus the Drangonfly and similar tris which can dock, motor and launch folded. Obviously even big farrier tris but especially shorter lengths than the F-33 you quoted rapidly get pretty small inside as well. With an unlimited budget I may have seriously considered a Dragonfly 28 however boy those things are prohibitively expensive. 

River cruising with narrow channels, locks, bridges and powerlines are also just about completely precluded or very awkward for most bigger tris. Other issues like drying out on uncertain ground or manuvering amongst rocks and reefs whilst exploring in shallow areas have about 3 times the problems.  Less so however with very fast and easy level fold in processes like on the Dragonfly. 

Overall I feel really big trailer tris like the F-33AX are really pushing the limits of trailablily and most fishing boat launching ramps and parking areas in little towns just could not accomodate me using their facilities severly constraining exploration choices which is one of my primary goals. 

Thankyou for your input but I have sound and well researched reasons for my ultimate selection which only an extended period of use will bear out or find flaw with. Regards Graeme 

PS Regarding your comment on the size of my Imexus 28, whilst my yacht weighs a fair bit more than your F31 it is way smaller  to tow on regular roads and less subject to crosswinds and parking size problems. It is also significantly quicker to launch and retrieve and much easier to use whilst on trailer between cruising locations. All other factors considered. 

Have you got a shot of the F-33AX on trailer or even your F31 to show for comparison purposes? 

 

 

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If I was going to remote trailable long term cruise in a trimaran I might pick one of these if I could only afford it! 

 

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Pic of an F33 on a trailer here: http://www.f-boat.com/pages/trimarans/F-33New.html

And here below is our F31 with the 2x4+conduit+tarp-barn on it, just before towing from Ottawa, Canada to Florida and sailing the Bahamas for about 6 weeks last winter.  With the Jeep that towed it there parked in front.  3.0 Merc V6 turbo diesel.  Yeah, F31 is pretty big, (but not quite big enough :-)  It's also pretty light though, for what one gets, and weight matters when towing, IMHO.  Never towed a '33 but I don't think it would be that much different.

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I *always* trailer-launch folded (there's not really any other way...) and have motored and docked folded quite a bit as well.  Never had a problem at any ramp I've tried.  Dead-easy rig and launch for a boat I can sail around the Caribbean.  I have actually raised the mast (or was it lowered? just once) totally solo, with no outside hands or eyes at all.  One just needs to take one's time when alone.  I am 58, and weigh just 155lbs, so no he-man.  You have somehow become misinformed on all this stuff.  Super-simple launch and go.

You are right that these boats are not cheap, and that loading them heavily slows them disproportionately, eg vs a displacement mono.  One might still be faster than the displacement mono, but one does slow down more with load, percentage-wise.

I think I did not read your initial post quite well enough.  I thought you were looking for some ideas about what other boat might be appropriate for your needs, but I think you have already decided.  No knockers here, just horses for courses... I wouldn't knock a boat I hadn't sailed on.  But more people should get out for a sail on a lightweight tri, IMHO.  A very different sailing experience, and one that typically leaves a lasting impression.

Cheers,
b2b
F31 #30001

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Hi B2B I appreciate your comments but have actually owned Farrier trailables as stated above be it only the 680TT which I towed rigged and launched on multiple occasions and have assisted launch and sail an F27 previously. I have been onboard the F31 at anchor. I commend you on your trip and the cruising of your yacht. I love many aspects of the big tris and would probably have stretched to the Dragonfly 28 if had that sort of money spare.  

The reason for my thread was to get others to see that cruising on trailable yachts for weeks and even months on end is feasible and has many advantages over yachts stuck to traveling by water and often restricted in their cruising locations. You have provided more evidence to support this premise which is really great.

I don't think my comments around big Farrier Tri's are mis-informed however. Yes towing weight matters but in many respects windage matters just as much when getting towards maximum trailable yachts and long highway travels. I note the new farriers have made strides in addressing the height for towing issues of many of their earlier designs. I love however per your link on the F33 how the manufacturers quote their dry, empty weight and usually without trailer or engine never mind with minimal cruising equipment added giving a potentially false sense of what real life towing weights will be. My manufacturer quoted around 3000lbs yet with engine and equipped for cruising and on trailer mine weighs around 7000lbs.

Whilst perhaps heavier on trailer than your F31 the low weight distribution and reduced windage of my yacht and many other lighter swing and retracting flat bottomed large trailable cruising oriented mono TS's balances out any relatively small weight advantage in my view. Nothing in my view can match the speed and exhilaration of a good tri under sail in the right conditions but other factors also came into my cruising platform considerations. 

I have just towed my yacht right across Australia in 3 days with a 3 litre turbo diesel VW Touareg. My friend and I slept on board each night very comfortably and even used it during the day for lunch and drinks breaks.  

One of the advantages of both the Dragonfly28, my yacht and some others over many of the Farriers and a variety of the much fuller keel American designed Trailable Mono's is that the cabin is easily accessible from the road during trailing. Also I completely understand your rider about being dead easy and quick to rig and launch your yacht for one you can sail around the Caribbean for 6 weeks but even my tiny 680tt was nearly a 1.5 hour exercise for two to rig and launch versus 30 minutes for 2 and 45 minutes for one for my current yacht.

I was really focused on this thread on getting people to use larger trailables for relatively comfortable cruising rather than focus on any one solution or yacht. As I am finding here on SA or CA the thread goes off in all sorts of weird and often fun directions and wish you many wonderful trips on your F31 they are a great yacht.

Kind Regards Graeme

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Something I havent been following with this thread or its related threads is the focus on size of the trailer sailor.  Most trailer sailors I know, and I know a few, are not so much proud of how large their trailer sailers are but rather how small they are, and they go off on exciting, long and remote voyages, not because of their boats comfort systems, but in spite of the systems.  

People go voyaging in all kinds of small boats, for many weeks to months.  My 21 ft Sharpie has been good for me for up to a month, but if I had the vacation time, I know I could be happy cruising around on her for months.  She has everything I need to be happy.  A comfy bed, a dry cabin, a galley, a porta potti, loads of storage for one person.  I wouldnt take her to the Carribean, but that has nothing to do with size and everything to do with her flat bottom and 9 inch draft.

One doesnt have to look too hard to find lots of examples of folks doing lots of remote cruising on small boats.  Paradox, at 14 ft comes to mind as an example.  http://www.microcruising.com/pictures.htm

I have an aquaintance who recently paddled a canoe some 1000 km down the Mckenzie River to the Beaufort Sea.  It doesnt get a whole lot more remote than that.  There are no crocodiles there, but there are polar bears, I think if I had to pick my poison for an unplanned swim, I might chose warm water and crocs over bergy bits and polar bears.

I feel like the size of the trailer sailor is a red herring, no special size of trailer sailor is needed to reach out of the way places and spend weeks or months there.

A few years back I happened across this series of Youtube vids about a couple who took off on a most unlikely voyage in a DS17 of all boats.  I am a bit fuzzy onbthe details but it went something like; they trailered the boat the length of the Labrador Highway, which was unpaved, to Goose Bay Labrador.  Then they loaded the boat as deck cargo onto a coastal freighter, that took them way up north into theLabador Sea, where they launched.  Then they sailed north to the Torngat Mountains and spent the summer cruising there.  A DS 17 at the entrance to the Hudson straight, sorrounded by large populations of polar bears and other various dangerous things.  They didnt need any specific size of boat; just a boat, a trailer and a destination.  Heres the first vid in the series:

 

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Hi TBW  My intention is to spend 2-4 months without resupply in super remote ares like the Kimberley's in Western Australia. I have assessed this cannot be achieved with reasonably safely in small Ts's. I have done many expeditions previously on canoes, sailing kayaks, tiny TS's like Hartley 16's (for 2 weeks at Shark Bay in WA) and many weeks on a 20 foot trailable catamaran being a Jarcat 6 but then with resupply every couple of weeks available at Hamilton Island in the Whitsundays. I appears your friend in the kayak didn't experience what an acquaintance of mine in the Kimberley's did back in the eighties. He was sea kayaking there with another friend of mine when a 4-5 meter croc latched onto the back of his sea kayak and death rolled him a number of times. He managed to roll up several times and eventually break free and I am sure then broke the Olympic Kayak sprint record over the first few hundred meters.

Also just a question How Old Are You and how beaten up from a life of too many thrills and spills?

I hit 60 this year and these days I am suffering from a few too many injuries collected motor racing, squirt boating on extreme white water, crashing off cliffs and into trees mountain biking and a variety of other walking the ragged edge activities over my life.  I actually think my yacht is getting towards the smaller end of what is capable of doing my planned expeditions and the slight extra size and capability I hope will encourage some old friends to come along on some of my journeys.   Regards Graeme

PS Note old friends was both figurative and literal as they like me are getting on in years now with some a chunk older again.

PPS Not ready for the retirement home yet and have some friends now in their early eighties still out there in their large TS's expeditioning. It is good to see others carrying on the tradition of extreme adventures but dont assume some of us older bastards haven't already been there and done that. :) I have huge numbers of photos in albums but no you tube video as it just didn't exist way back then.  LOL

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I am younger than you, but not a kid, and yes, I have been pleanty hard on myself, both for sport and as a matter of employment. 

 

I would be curious to see your caloric calculations and why it is you dont feel you could carry adequate supplies on a smaller boat.  Your semi displacement boat doesnt really look like she would be an exceptional load carrier for her LOA to me, but it hardly matters, even an 18 ft canoe can carry 1000 pounds of gear.  Boats can carry a lot of stuff.

For water resupply I upgraded last year from the old hand pump filters to a 6 liter gravity filter.  Its awesome, any fresh water becomes drinking water, just fill it up and walk away.  You should check them out if you dont already have one.

Oh, and I am not dising your boat choice, we all like our boats idiosyncracies and all, there is an Odin 820 at my local marina, I kind of like it, similar boat to yours I think?  Its just been my experience you can get a lot done in a small boat, if small boats are your thing.

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I've promised to pick up a '65 Tylercraft 24' at the end of the month:

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2' draft, so while I can't get into the really shallow bits, it's not horrible. Twin keel, so she'll stand on her own if the tide goes down out in the New England coastline. Standing headroom in the "main cabin"; I can at least stand up and stretch if we get a few days of rain and I have no interest of getting soaked in the cockpit. 4,000 lbs displacement, so my truck will still tow her... on any flatbed wide enough. Can't speak to how hard the mast is to raise, but there's a few singlehanded systems documented out there using baby stays and what not.

I'm still a youngin' in my late thirties, but I've already racked up an autoimmune related arthritis diagnosis. The cabin on my 19' O'Day is cozy... but a few days of cold rain is likely to have me chewing fiberglass, and laying down all the time isn't good for the joints. 

She's a project... lots of work to be done, inside and out. She'll give me something to do for the next few years when I'm not sailing the O'Day. Gives me enough time to lose track of the receipts, too, so I won't be concerned with how much money I'm pouring into the hole in the water. :lol:

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Hi TBW Yes the Odin 820 is a tiny bit smaller version of my Imexus 28.

I was the president of an extreme outdoors club and trip and expedition leader for many years back in my 20's and 30's. There is a big difference between survival rations which I have done a lot of and a little bit of luxury whilst on long trips. Even back in my extreme adventure days we did mad things like someone would pull out icecream balls stored in a stainless thermos with dry ice 10 days into a walk/climb or a decanted full bottle of Drambuie or something equally outrageous. Its no wonder our packs often started at nearly 40 kilos back then.

I have every intention of inviting friends along on the planned trips and my next one which is just to the very tame Whitsundays in April. Both my 15 yo daughter and now an experienced sailer who was once a very beautiful girlfriend from 38 years ago are coming along for the trip. We had only been in vague contact once again recently after my fathers death prompted her to call me and she has just asked to be invited along. A little bit of luxury goes a long way in getting things like that to happen. I seriously doubt a minimalist camping style TS would have generated that request. :) 

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Hi TBW Have you got a link or info on the gravity water filters as my katadyne hand pump ones are hard work and was considering going to a powered one as a emergency back up to my large fresh water tankage. 

I also just noted upon rereading your comment about available carrying capacity of my Imexus 28. It is rated for 6 people plus luggage at 780kgs but is also fitted with 730 litres of sea water ballast tanks which are generally no longer filled now due to 3 big batteries, 165kg of additional under cabin floor lead ( North Sea Cat B spec) , 370 litres of fresh water capability over 4 tanks all low mounted and 200 of this in side to side ballast transfer tanks, 295kg of low mounted inboard Diesel engine, 140 litres of diesel and other very low mounted cruising equipment and gear like tools and spares in waterproof boxes. Some shown below. All this extra weight still doesn’t add up to the 730kgs of water ballast so it has lots of general carrying capacity left over. Should conditions turn extreme and much more stability is needed then an extra 730kgs of seawater is available in 5 minutes of filling. I tried to talk to the Polish manufacturers about converting some of this sea water ballast to fresh water storage but their English is poor and decided to go the low mounted under dinette seats hull attached flexible tank route instead. The yacht is designed to motor at speed and sail downwind without the water ballast so it now sails fine with all these ballast substitutes. Also my inboard version is inherently more stable than the outboard version with 100-140hp hanging high over the stern. 

Finally I agree lots can be done on small boats and have done lots of this myself including 18 days down the Grand Canyon, weeks kayaking in Himalayan rivers and camper sailing Hobie AI’s. Apart from failing to have the money for a Dragonfly 28 I think the Imexus wasn’t a bad second choice. 

Regards Graeme :) 

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Hi TBW Thanks for that.  Just shows how far out of touch this old ex techie wilderness guy is now. I have been using katadyn products for over 35 years but obviously  just haven't been keeping that up to date lately. Many of my planned expedition areas are salt water and I just cannot justify any of the desalinators just yet though they are dropping in price. Still I will definitely purchase a couple of the ones you have recommended. Regards Graeme :) 

PS You didn't come clean on how old you are. I can tell you there is a big difference between what I was doing and tackling in my forties to where I am at now sadly. A few years ago I would have happily sailed funslut's Tornado on a long expedition with a friend and been fine with that. These days I enjoy a little more creature comfort than that especially if planning to spend weeks or months on board. Just being able to sail in the shade under a bimini in the tropics and retreat from driving rain or howling winds is much more desirable these days. 

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9 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi TBW Thanks for that.  Just shows how far out of touch this old ex techie wilderness guy is now. I have been using katadyn products for over 35 years but obviously  just haven't been keeping that up to date lately. Many of my planned expedition areas are salt water and I just cannot justify any of the desalinators just yet though they are dropping in price. Still I will definitely purchase a couple of the ones you have recommended. Regards Graeme :) 

PS You didn't come clean on how old you are. I can tell you there is a big difference between what I was doing and tackling in my forties to where I am at now sadly. A few years ago I would have happily sailed funslut's Tornado on a long expedition with a friend and been fine with that. These days I enjoy a little more creature comfort than that especially if planning to spend weeks or months on board. Just being able to sail in the shade under a bimini in the tropics and retreat from driving rain or howling winds is much more desirable these days. 

The Katadyne gravity filter has been awesome for me, there is a lot of freshwater cruising around here (great lakes), if I run out of water, I just fill the bag under way, and let it do its job.  Plus, its' where my running water comes from, just hang the bag higher than my sink, and the hose/spiggot becomes my tap.

I am in my 40s.  I have multiple boats, racing and cruising: I find with small boats especially, good racers make bad cruisers and vice versa, so I have seperate boats for each activity.  My boats intended for expedition style racing are full on.  I have each a beach cat and a sailing kayak.  For those boats, my dry suit is my cabin.  Sleeping can be either on the trampolene with a dry bag for a pillow or a hammock tent strung between a couple of trees ashore.  This is not really cruising.  Those boats are built to be light, swift, and with minimal windage.

My cruising boat, even though only 21 feet, is down right luxurious by comparison.  Beds with mattresses, dry, galley, heater, stove, solar power with inverter.  The cabin is small under way, but when I beach/anchor, the accomodations are pretty decent with the camper top up.  Its a mix of both hard cabin and camper top.  When its just me, the cabin makes for a warm, cozy bedroom, while the camper section makes my living room.  Its a huge step up comfort wise from sleeping on trampolenes and hammock tents in the trees.  The boat does have both a dodger and a bimini.  I sail into december, we get snow here starting as early as October, so I do appreciate the protection from the bimini and dodger.  The design is kind of ingenuos.  The Bimini top forms the roof of the camper top.  To get underway in crappy weather, you can leave the bimini top and dodger up and just remove the side and rear camper top panels.

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And here is a pic of my Prindle 16 for comparison.  This photo was taken on a little island while exploring the upper Ottawa River, which is a big river it winds 1200 km north into some pretty serious wilderness.  Slept and cooked on the beach.

I personally think beach cats make great camp cruising platforms for that type of trip because they sail well enough to overcome some pretty powerful river currents.  No outboard required.

This boat I store my camping gear inside the hulls.  I purchased all my camping gear with the undrstanding it had to fit in through an 8 inch inspection port on a beach cat.  I can carry about a weeks worth of gear on the beach cat.  

 

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Hi TBW I figured as much age wise. Give it another 15ish years and we will see what your preferences are. :)  I also have multiple boats but these days only one TS being the Imexus 28 which has the capabilities of a small cruising yacht along with something like a Ranger Tug combined. I have been prepared to sacrifice ultimate sailing performance for a wide range of flexibility and capabilities for really long range expeditioning with large carrying capacity. The combination of an off wind planing under sail hull and moderate upwind performance with high speed motoring, , trailability and small cruiser comfort hopefully will allow me to push the exploring envelope for the next 10 plus years. 

Having something a little more comfortable for retirement expeditioning is the objective. With luck having something this big will encourage my daughter and some friends to come and join me on occasions. A new sailing partner wouldn’t go astray as well. I don’t think I would have much chance of those objectives with a tent on or off water type platform. :) 

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BTW On all these forums the only people taking about having partners along for the ride seem to have had much more comfortable yachts. I used to have one of those and currently have a great first mate in my nearly 16 yo late life somewhat unplanned daughter. She has made a great adventuring and sailing sidekick ( or perhaps dad’s the sidekick ) but will fly the coop fairly soon. I would be nice to find a permenantly replacement but slim chances just yet especially when you hang around with your ballsy daughter and friends and have a six day a week job. :) 

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11 minutes ago, Grith said:

BTW On all these forums the only people taking about having partners along for the ride seem to have had much more comfortable yachts. 

Nope, my wife, son and daughter were with me last season for 2 weeks on Georgian Bay, a month in the thousand Islands and 2 weeks in Cape Breton.  We have limited vacation this year because I burned up so much leave last year, but we already have 2 weeks planned in the Thousand Islands this coming summer.  My wife does not race with me.

My wife is an experienced boat owner.  We are former live aboards, we owned a 24000 pound cruising sailboat we lived aboard for several years.  She knows what its like to be stranded at dock because the deisel engine wont start, she knows what waking up to dead batteries is like, she knows about rusty fuel tanks and what discovering rot in a bulk head is like, she knows what its like when the shore power cord wiggles loose in the night and stuff starts smoldering.  She dislikes the aggravations of big boat ownership as much as I do.

  

 

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Hi TBW Hey great! Count yourself amongst the lucky ones. There are some tough Sailer chicks out there but not that many and they get especially rare at 50yo plus. :) 

My ex partner and daughters mother did lots of cruising sailing and other adventures with me when we were younger but having an unplanned first child at 46.5 years old kind of wrecked her in lots of ways. Part of it was just anxiety and also different parenting styles as she went all protective and I was determined to let  my daughter be the Tomboy she is.

I got the boot just after exposing my daughter to Dad’s need for speed and bad motor racing habits when she was about eight. She is about to learn to drive in the turbo sports car pictured a few posts above and that also recently went down like a lead ballon kind of understandably. She has already done some karting amongst lots of other out there adventures together. 

 At over 60 now there would be no chance of getting her mother multi week camping on a tent sized yacht whilst she does still sail occassionally and recently did a weeks inshore skippers course in Croatia with my daughter but on a 50 footer. 

PS In your photos above I just noticed your outboard looks like a Honda 2hp 4 stroke and your cooker an Origo Heater. I purchased the first series of those for my old Hartley 16 TS 25 years ago and more recently have used it on my Hobie Adventure Island  which I fitted with a motor mount for a crossing to offshore islands about 9 years ago. I also own the origo heater in addition to a two burner Origo stove in my yacht. Picked it up new/secondhand very cheap for cruising in the far south and Tasmania in future. 

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Hi again TBW Were those trips with your wife, son and daughter last season on that little 21 foot yacht with cockpit enclosure in your photos above? If so I guess you generally shore camped with it as it would be aufully tight actually  living entirely on board on that with four people. My intention was to create a trailable platform big enough to actually live on board for one to four people as many proposed sailing/exploring destinations have no feasible, or in some cases like both wetlands and breeding grounds island nature preserves, legal on shore camping options. 

Also a wide number of proposed destinations are a very long way from potential resupply locations. 

My yacht is also big enough to carry water toys like SUP’s, surf/whitewater kayaks, sailboard and kite surfers,  tubing/skiing equipment and diving gear on board as well as well as carry its dingy on deck. Obviously only taking what’s relevant for the particular cruising area not everything at once. :) 

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@Bob Perry Wow Bob, you have designed a lot of beautiful boats.  And they still look good, but maybe not as good as your SA avatar, which seems truly ageless... :-)

@Grith Quite true "trailer-camping" on an F-boat or other folding multi is not quite as convenient as something with more space.  We thought we might do it more, but rarely have.  Comfort for First Mate was part of the puzzle for us... she certainly loves speed with less heel, but misses interior volume.

@TBW Sounds like we are in the same stompin grounds.  We're at NSC and stick out like a sore thumb, er, thumb-and-two-fingers, typically at the end of B-dock.  Crew and guests welcome. jbbacque  at that goog mail address reaches me, if you are in town and want to go for a ride... or want to sand anti-foul while inverted, say... or maybe meet up somewhere on Georgian Bay in Aug/Sept.

Another older shot of Osprey on the trailer, below, looking a bit less intimidating than with the barn on her head.  It wasn't until Florida/Bahamas loomed that we could justify our own puller.  At $19.95 a day, a little box van or F250 SuperDuty is hard to beat.  Trail+sail can be made to work pretty well, at not *too* much cost... bIMAG0859.thumb.jpg.9f8e4bdc1d70a3f2942fa9d05bf0afef.jpg

 

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1 hour ago, bacq2bacq said:

 

 Sounds like we are in the same stompin grounds.  We're at NSC and stick out like a sore thumb, er, thumb-and-two-fingers, typically at the end of B-dock.  Crew and guests welcome. jbbacque  at that goog mail address reaches me, if you are in town and want to go for a ride... or want to sand anti-foul while inverted, say... or maybe meet up somewhere on Georgian Bay in Aug/Sept.

 

 

Sounds like.  I sail quite bit on Lake Deschênes.  I have seen the one tri anchored off Aylmer, but I will keep an eye out for yours too.  Would be fun going for a ride in a tri.

Ice breaking off Britania Beach in and beach cat sailing off Aylmer   

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Hi Bob Thanks for that. The yacht looks great. Is that keel fixed? Love to sail it, but hate to think about trailering it. :) 

Hi B2B Yes I love the big tris to sail and owned a little one ( extended 680tt) but feel that trying to squash a relatively recent girlfriend into that one for two weeks sailing/camping ( lasted three days before she bailed) seriously contributed to ending that relationship. Remember we were both in our 50’s but sailers. My promotion of bigger TS’s as cruising platforms is linked to issues including your wife’s. :) I would really ultimately like to find a new expeditioning class first mate when my now nearly 16 yo daughter decides dad just isn’t cool to hang with anymore. 

Hi TBW Thanks for the communication. Have fun out there. 

Regards Graeme from Kangaroo Valley Aus 

 

 

 

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47 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi Bob Thanks for that. The yacht looks great. Is that keel fixed? Love to sail it, but hate to think about trailering it. I have looked over many of your excellent designs. Ever thought about putting pen to paper with the brief of requirements I have outlined for a manageable to Trailer but big enough to live aboard for weeks TS. I loved your 40 foot containerable cruising yacht which has a kind of similar objective but had struggled to find the perfect comfortably trailable cruising yacht to replace the ubiquitous 24-28 foot grey nomad caravan so common in this country. I am now planning a life of moving between different cruising destinations at 50-60knots upwind staying on board on land during these journeys. Enough comfort for a couple and occassional guest or two would be great. I have purchased now myself an Imexus 28 which is a bit left of centre but will be on the road and water constantly over the next few years and many will not want a Powersailer like mine. If you draw it I can sell it.  :) 

Hi B2B Yes I love the big tris to sail and owned a little one ( extended 680tt) but feel that trying to squash a relatively recent girlfriend into that one for two weeks sailing/camping ( lasted three days before she bailed) seriously contributed to ending that relationship. Remember we were both in our 50’s but sailers. My promotion of bigger TS’s as cruising platforms is linked to issues including your wife’s. :) I would really ultimately like to find a new expeditioning class first mate when my now nearly 16 yo daughter decides dad just isn’t cool to hang with anymore. 

Hi TBW Thanks for the communication. Have fun out there. 

Regards Graeme from Kangaroo Valley Aus 

Oops Sorry was amending a post to ask Bob about his designing and its somehow doubled up. :) 

 

 

 

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Hi All A lazy Sunday morning after an appointment was cancelled had me trace back to an old closed thread on a proposed 32 foot trailer sailer.

Many on SA and CA seem to focus on very big or tiny and very few examine the size range of 26-28 foot where a trailable yacht can still be towed by a big capable 4x4 without resorting to a truck like F250, RAM or similar.

It also appears that most focus remains on speed and upwind capability versus a cruising platform for extended periods on board with partner and perhaps the kids.

I feel If you want to try to thrash your mates around the cans most weekends there are plenty of ways to do that whilst sailing.

There are not however many smaller yachts that you can get the better half to want to come sailing and exploring as a more comfortable alternative to lakeside/riverside/ beachfront camping where all the best spots are often either taken, crowded or banned. For me hours of motoring noise on Ranger Tugs or similar destroy much of the tranquility of the wilderness and gently sailing whilst taking in the environs has a different set of rewards. Kind of like the difference between hiking and trail motor bike riding. Both fun but different. 

Unfortunately many of the things most sort after by those ( perhaps partners) seeking a comfortable on water sailing holiday platform run directly contrary to the majority whose focus remains firmly on the sailing aspects. 

Many older and new larger conventional cruising yachts have some solid focus on accommadation and livability rather than ultimate sailing performance and many of these would be lucky to have three hours sailing for every 100 hours of use. The relatively few dedicated ocean crossers are the only ones that buck this trend and many of them sail on what racers would refer to as pigs to sail.

Can I ask some of the knockers out there to get the other half ‘s take on all this if it’s not just your intention to use sailing as the equivilent of retreating to the man cave/shed with the mates. 

Graeme :) 

PS The modern yoinger women sailers out there are likely to be more focussed on performance as well like my daughter so it isn’t just a sex thing perhaps more an age stage one. 

 

 

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I dunno. I've never been one to toe the line, and that might be one reason my other half left last fall. Most boating folk I know personally keep their boats on a slip; I'd rather put the money into a truck hefty enough to haul my boat. Something bigger than the 24' Tylercraft I'm picking up would be nice, but then I'm looking at an bigger, expensive truck to haul it around with. Generally speaking, depending on the setup, bigger boats are harder to single hand, and I'm really not in the mood to depend on someone else to go boating with. Sounds like a recipe for disappointment. I don't care about going fast... no interest in racing for anything other than the next round of beer, and I'd rather keep a close eye on the weather than expect a few more knots to allow me to outrun it. Picking up my pilot's license a few decades ago ground all the "get-home-itis" out of me.

Perfect example is the twin keel. Granted, the tides in the Northeast generally aren't as dramatic as those in the UK, but I'm still happy with a twin keel setup allowing me to gently take ground for the sake of maintenance, repairs, just because I can. That thread over in "Fix It Anarchy" regarding what to do with a seized seacock tells me the possible benefits of a twin keel grounding. I'd gladly trade some for windward performance for that.

My ex was interested in the boating, but not so much that she couldn't take it or leave it. She'd rather anchor out and relax in the sun. A weekend cooped up in a small boat with it raining is not her idea of a vacation. Me, I'd have no problem curling up under the covers and reading a good book while listening to the rain hit the deck. Warm, dry, and entertained... works for me. Pretty sure I'd come up with a few other sources of entertainment with a lady on board for that weekend, too... and my ex had no interest in those sorts of activities, not for a full weekend. Ah, well.

Got a few lady interests that have taken to the thought of coastal cruising; one even shows interest in living aboard for more than a few weeks at a time (and she's got tiny home tendencies, so she's credible). Not a one has asked how fast the boat goes; all have thought crossing oceans sounds insane. Maybe it's the crossing oceans with me that's the problem...

 

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Hi Lucky One I have also euipped my yacht for single handed sailing anticipating possibly having to do a chunk of that. Whilst doing a fair amount of sailing/cruising with my daughters mother many years ago it was generally me doing everything from rigging and launching to general boat handling. My seeking a new sailing partner or friends to join me is more about just sharing experiences rather than them being needed to handle my yacht. My daughter however is a very competent sailor but I expect I will loose her soon given she has only two more years of school. She has already been offered a gap year job at a sailing school overseas if she wants it so I expect she will be gone in a heartbeat after her final exams. 

Is your 4000lbs loaded for cruising and on its trailer or a manufactures weight without trailer. My manufacturer rates my yacht at 3000lbs but with trailer and the cruising equipment I have fitted it weighs in at around 7000lbs. Whilst 28 foot long my yacht is water ballasted so around another 1500lbs is added on in water if the ballast is needed.

My trailer weighs in at about 1300lbs and I tow it all with a 4x4 3 litre diesel VW Touareg SUV. 

Also I could not recommend more highly the factory designed permantly fitted mast raising system on the Imexus28 which makes raising its 30 foot mast within the capabilities of my very slight 15 yo daughter. I have supplied detailed photos of this to quite a number of other TS owners now and have yet have seen a better one in 50 years of TS sailing. Should you want these photos please private email me. 

My particular yacht has a faster way to achieve that run from a weather front than any other genuine cruising yacht that I know of. It upsets many yachting traditionalists and I really.don’t use it much preferring the tranquility and sensitivity of sail but it can occassionally be fun. Regards Graeme 

 

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Hi Elscotto Yep looks like he had a great trip and that makes my Hobie Adventure Island single look like a pocket battleship but I didn’t see him sleeping or cooking on board whilst on the water only on land.I had to on several nights on the AI and even had a one man tent which I rigged across the trampolines for the one night it pissed with rain. The area I parked in was just off an island beach which was a restricted naval firing range and bird breeding sanctuary where you are not allowed onshore.  Also sailed/peddled across a rivermouth bar and surfed into Sussex Inlet on that trip in 2010 but it was only for 7 days. I had intended and equipped and rigged the single AI for two to three weeks in the Whitsundays but just then secured a new job and just did this short trip more locally. I didn’t fit it for this short  coastal trip but I have a motor mount for a 2 hp Honda outboard along with flexible solar panels on the AI for the planned more extensive offshore island cruise. I feel he needs to go back out and sleep and cook on anchor to count as a cruising yacht. :)

I am just getting my daughter to teach me how to use a go pro equivilent at present and I only had a waterproof camera back then that sand got in the o ring seal and killed. The AI shots below were taken on another extended camping trip with my daughter and friend and both the single and tandem AI’s. 

Suggest he upgrades for his next trip believe these are fun. I don’t think the other one qualifies as a trailable yacht despite being towed on trailer at that time. Regards Graeme 

 

 

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Grith, I think you need to update your definition of Cruising Yacht.  I think between organisations like Watertribe and the Dinghy Cruising Association of the UK, are changing the way people (at least some people) are thinking about how people are thinking about cruising in small boats.  This is a good read:

https://www.amazon.ca/Dinghy-Cruising-Companion-advice-sailing/dp/1408179164

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Hi TBW Have it and read it along with well over one hundred other sailing, cruising, texts and possibly three to four hundred outdoor pursuits books in total. Bit of a dedicated research nut if you haven’t guessed. :)  I am going to stand my ground. Cruising yacht ( not dingy) means sleep, cook, eat and live on board in my book and sailing assisted camping is when it’s just primarily the sailing transport platform like my AI’s and Funslut’s Tornado.  I have an inbetween definition I would like to call my own which is Camper Sailing which I feel both of you actually have. That is a yacht that can be slept and lived on almost like an onwater tent. My old Hartley16’s were this class of yacht I feel and my Jarcat’s and Farrier 680TT just on the cusp of real trailable cruisers. The fact that occassionally I have slept and cooked on board my AI by nessessity doesn’t make it a cruising yacht in my view but was just having a dig back at eslcotto knowing he has a small Tri and prefers sleeping on land like you. He is also a stack younger than me and two stacks than you I think. BTW I started camping on yachts, canoes and dingy’s before either of you were born. My first night sleeping on board a Hartley 16 was in 1971 and stupid white water river expedition using an inflatable toy raft on grade 3 water in 1974.   :) 

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22 minutes ago, Grith said:

 I am going to stand my ground. Cruising yacht (lmeans sleep, cook, eat and live on board.

Right, so a Mirror with a boom tent, bucket and Coleman stove meets all those criteria :)

I am going to stand my ground too. 

If I am not racing, I am not day sailing, I'm out exploring on a boat for several days to several months, what am I doing?

My 21 ft Sharpie easily meets your criteria.

Where I am from a boat with living accommodations is more or less defined in the regs.  Basically, in order to be legally allowed to drink alcohol or smoke cannabis on board a boat it needs living accommodations.  Living accommodations are defined to include; sleeping facilities, permanent cooking facilities and a marine head with holding tank and deck pump out. It doesn't say anything about standing head room, how private the head is or whether there is refrigeration or not.  Largely because those items are a matter of personal preference.  

Due to your personal circumstances, you have selected a boat with a private head and standing headroom, others I have heard say they would never cruise on a boat less than 40 ft and your boat would come nowhere close to meeting their criteria.  But it doesn't matter, their criteria isn't yours, and your criteria isn't mine. 

I have a strong preference for boats that can be beached and can be reliably sailed without auxiliary machinery.  In order to accomplish my preferences, I needed a fairly small boat.  At the end of the day though, we are doing the same thing, each in boats with ; cooking, sleeping and bathroom, that otherwise meet our personal preferences.

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9 hours ago, Grith said:

 ...Is your 4000lbs loaded for cruising and on its trailer or a manufactures weight without trailer. 

*snip*

Should you want these photos please private email me. 

 

That'd be the manufacturer's claimed displacement, without trailer. I'm picking up the Tylercraft the weekend after next. She'll need a great deal of attention before she hits the water, but she'll make a great project. Trailer should be just about 1,000 lbs. I'll be towing with an '09 Toyota Tacoma V6 with the towing package, rated 6,500 lbs. Should be just about at my personal towing limit by the time she's outfitted for a week or two of sailing.

I'll send a PM your way in a bit. I've read that the MacGregor singlehanded mast raising system works well on the TC 24'. I'll be giving it a good look over once the boat's in my possession. 

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Hi TBW I understand where you are coming from but out of interest my yacht meets your above criteria exactly despite its extra size. BTW I might need to improve my definition to state sleeping on board for two (preferably together) as per the trailer Sailer racing regs in this country and that will cut the mirror dingy out unless they are circus contortionists. :) My Imexus can be launched and sailed (by 1 person) without extra machinery (I just cannot take the engine off), beached and actually allowed to dry out completely no problems, has permanent cooking and the required toilet facilities. It’s just a bit bigger and whole lot more comfortable. Unfortunately others have certified it as suitable for drinking and smoking pot as about a year ago it was broken into whilst on the hardstanding at my yacht club and used by a bunch of teenagers for precisely that. Given lighting, comfortable seating and lounging for 6-8 around a table, running water and an onshore useable toilet I can understand in a row of about 12 trailable yachts why they picked mine for their party. They didn’t steal anything which was nice of them and left a home made bong with fingerprints but I wasn’t advised the police ever caught them. Fortunately they also didn’t burn anything or damage anything of value or puk up in there.  I have upgraded the hatch locks now. The club has improved security with better fencing and patrols and are discussing cameras at present. 

Hi The Lucky One The Macgregor system on the fairly new 26m at my club will be simpler to manufacture but it is a whole lot harder to fit and use and not good for easy on water mast lowering for bridges and powerlines. I will be happy to send you photos of the factory fitted Imexus one and highly recommend it. Based on your response above watch your towing weight as  if your manufactures weight is 4000lbs I doubt the trailer will be as low as 1000lbs as my aluminium float on one is more than that and motors and cruising gear add up really fast. Most trailable yacht owners who have taken their package over a weigh bridge had been truly shocked by what it has all added up to. Kind regards Graeme :) 

 

 

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77DB24CF-4C73-48D0-8509-84664444A490.jpegThis is a shot of the two multi purchase cheek blocks pinned together with the line running back to a cockpit sheet winch. The stabilising A frame arms seen welded to and  coming off this stay in place whilst sailing allowing easy use for on water single person lowering for bridges. They have a bend upwards at the leading edge seen here to clear the mooring cleats, fuel and water inlets and anchor chain. The little bowsprit  is for the self launching anchor, assymetrical kite and for stepping off onto the beach or trailer spare wheel for climbing down. 

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Hi The Lucky One I have just looked again at your posted photo of your yacht on trailer. If the manufacturer weight is 4000lbs then your trailer needs brakes which I couldn’t see fitted. Lots of trailerable yachts are sold with club launching jinkers not road legal trailers and I hope you have considered this. In this country a combined yacht and trailer weight of over just over  4000lbs. ( actually 2 ton) requires the more complex car activated separate trailer brakes not just even surge brakes to be legal. 

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

 My Imexus can be launched and sailed (by 1 person) without extra machinery (I just cannot take the engine off), beached and actually allowed to dry out completely no problems, has permanent cooking and the required toilet facilities. It’s just a bit bigger and whole lot more comfortable. 

 

 

I have no doubt your boat can be sailed on open water, and it can likely be beached pretty well too.  

When I said I like boats without the need for auxillary machinery, I meant you can paddle, row, yuloh or pedal drive them around. 

I use a long beaver tail canoe paddle and a Jay stroke, I usually stand on my bench seating or fantail to paddle.  I have gone for miles like that.  My wife is happy to paddle her too.  I really should buy a SUP paddle, but the beaver tail has been working.

I think your boat is great, but those of us who prefer to cruise on smaller sized trailer sailers have our reasons :)

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TBW Sprung That’s an outboard at your feet! :) My almost silent auxiliary is a torqeedo 1003 . Yes it’s not person powered but it is almost silent and does recharge from my solar panels so it almost qualifies as at least relatively efficient environmentally ( though debatable in some quarters)  and more importantly doesn’t disturb the wildlife, birds or me. :) 

PS You already have by the sounds of it a great and willing partner so you don’t have to post nice stern shots here! 

PPS I could fit a rafting oar rig on mine to row but I  too old and lazy! 

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Lol, yes, I do carry a Honda 2.3 much of the time, and its anything but quiet.  

In that pic it was too shallow for my outboard, I draw 9 inches paddling, 13 inches motoring.Less than 2 feet of water or in weeds I use the paddle.  The point is, you can paddle the boat.

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Yeah I know. I will have a SUP onboard for exercise and reckon I could move my yacht with its long extendable paddle but not that far. :) Mine draws just under 12 inches everything up and the torqueedo can move it at that depth on the high setting in still and flat conditions. It pushes my yacht at around 3.5-4 knots with effiecent battery use down in its deep position and to over 5 knots but while watching the charge amount alarmingly tick down 1% every about 40 seconds. 

I don’t think there are that many areas you could reach into with your smaller TS that I couldn’t and if poking into gater or in my case croc country I think I will stay onboard and higher up. I have specifically equipped my yacht for exploration way up mangrove rivers and wetland areas as some of its intended cruising destinations. I previously have done many trips like this with smaller TS’s, and in non croc country, also with canoes and HI’s so am not talking out of my stern. 

Its great to see someone else however focussed more on wilderness exploration on sailing platforms rather than around the cans racing and occassional weekends on board. :) 

PS The torqeedo also acts as my dingy motor when on a trip that requires one of these. This removes the need for a third fuel source already carrying diesel and alcohol (for the stove of course). Note cooler and fridge/freezer! 

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Grith, It's great that you started this thread, and I can see that you are very proud of your boat, but you come off more as a salesman for Imexus than someone promoting "trailer sailing". Trailer sailing to me means trailerable sailboats and while yours has a small mast and sails, it is really a 180 HP powerboat with a small mast and sails. A sail boat will never make a great power boat and vice versa.

Are you involved in some way with Imexus, or are you just chuffed with your boat and interested in trailer sailing?

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Hi Russel I am not involved with Imexus and I am actually happily promoting any large shallow draft actually trailable trailer sailers generally not my particular unusual yacht. It’s just that so many jump in with tiny camper sailers or monster transportable only yachts and seem to ingnore what I feel is the sweet spot in between specifically for this type of use. For discussing this style of trailable cruising yachts on these sites I actually wish I had something like an RL28 or Court 750 and could get away from focus on engines for anything else but long windless passages, docking and bridge transit manoeuvres. 

Having said that I chose what I chose for a reason and with much thought  and don’t feel the need to hide that fact just because some disagree.

I fought very hard with traditional fibreglass kayakers when Tupperware (poly ethylene and other plastics ) kayaks first arrived in the early eighties and took a lot of shit back then. In the end they are now almost universal in many areas of this sport and others. 

I am not saying that will happen here in any way but I don’t step back from discussion just because I have gone an unusual direction but with serious thought. Catamarans for cruising  caused much controversy in their early days and I was in those discussions as well and had a trailable cruising Catamaran being a Jarcat6. 

I am always happy to toe to toe with care and respect argue the point and be prepared to consider I am wrong but generally have a sound and well reasoned basis for my point of view backed up by actual use and experience not armchair critic stuff.  

Regards Graeme 

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5 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi The Lucky One ... If the manufacturer weight is 4000lbs then your trailer needs brakes which I couldn’t see fitted... requires the more complex car activated separate trailer brakes not just even surge brakes to be legal. 

I've visually verified that the trailer has surge disk brakes. The surge system is good enough to satisfy the State. That said, my truck's already equipped with a brake controller, so I'd be happier switching the trailer over to an electronic system, stainless steel rotors, etc. If I can work out a dolly to move the boat off the trailer, I may forgo the stainless steel, since I won't be immersing the trailer in salt water. That's assuming I'm still under the max capacity of the trailer. 

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HI The Lucky One That’s really great! Just couldn’t see anything on your photos and have had a number of experiences when people didn’t know what you obviously do know. It is very hard on these forums to sort the absolute newbies from the very experienced people and when you go an unusual direction many (and I can be guilty as charged) are concerned that the poster doesn’t have a deep or adequate background and might be at risk. You obviously know what you are doing about this area in the very least and probably in very many other areas. Great to have your contribution and along for the ride. Kind Regards Graeme 

PS How are you going to get her off without putting the trailer in the water? It is the ability to just launch off the little powerboat ramp that opens up so many unique and unusual cruising destinations for trailable yachts. 

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Ha! I know enough to get myself into trouble, most days. Being aware of it helps, but life still throws curve balls at me from time to time.

There's a great video of the process to launch a twin keeler without dipping the trailer somewhere on YouTube... I just need to find it. Basically, there's a four wheel trolley cart that the boat sits on. The cart gets loaded on and off the trailer via ramps, and possible hinging supports on the trailer frame. I'll hunt down the video and post it later.

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Wow that’s sounds interesting. I hope you find the video. :) 

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Found it! On Vimeo, not YouTube... No wonder it was a pain to locate: https://vimeo.com/114253262

 

Won't play as an embedded video, so there's the link. Relevant bit starts about 1:45 into it.

 

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Should also note that the example boat has no rudder hung off the bottom of the stern, letting them take a nice steep approach angle on/off the trailer. I'll trash the rudder or shaft doing that.

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Hi The Lucky One I have found a video of the mast raising and launching process for my yacht where you can see the multi purchase block system and in-situ Aframe in use. My locally built alloy trailer has a longer distance from the tow ball to the yacht increasing towing stability, allowing the rear hatch of my car to open and precluding the need to take the car right to the water. I manage this process alone and using the Genoa winch on the cabin top my slight 15yo daughter can also raise the mast alone. If watching through to the end please skip the short section on motoring as this is what gets many traditional sailors hot under the collar and jump straight to sailing and beaching PLEASE! Regards Graeme :) I couldn't figure out how to delete the motoring section of the video and it is a very secondary issue for me! 

PS Someone needs to learn how to tension their genoa luff as well!

Novice video of the outboard version not covering all aspects but better than the factory one I feel. My yacht is the inboard version which is a bit better balanced but the rear berth is only a queen not a king as shown here.

 

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On 3/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, Russell Brown said:

Grith, It's great that you started this thread, and I can see that you are very proud of your boat, but you come off more as a salesman for Imexus than someone promoting "trailer sailing". Trailer sailing to me means trailerable sailboats and while yours has a small mast and sails, it is really a 180 HP powerboat with a small mast and sails. A sail boat will never make a great power boat and vice versa.

Are you involved in some way with Imexus, or are you just chuffed with your boat and interested in trailer sailing?

Hi Russell I threw you a challenge by PM to help find my some large but still readily trailable long range part time liveaboard cruising trailer sailers that other people could consider for wilderness exploring.  I have some favourites myself but was interested in your thoughts. My goal has never been to promote the Imexus just to promote large cruising trailer sailers as an alternative to smaller fixed keel cruisers. If my Imexus just had a 9.9 Yamaha 4 Stroke on my stern outboard bracket I doubt many would blink an eye at it never mind chose to make your comments about neither fish nor foul and being a lousy yacht and lousy powerboat.

Now as a yacht it has perfectly adequate speed off the wind and high speed planing under kite due to a flattish planing stern and 30 foot mast, big main and big genoa for a cruiser and a big assymetrical kite. It is also relatively light as I generally dump 730 kgs of ballast in all but really challenging conditions. It will go upwind and tack through a fairly tight angle but water ballast, swing keel and flat stern does mean reduced up wind speed. As a cruising yacht however direct upwind is often avoided and I often see cruising keel yachts and TS’s doing direct upwind at hull speed under motor anyway. 

If you are in a cruising yacht of similar length I think I might be waving on the way past under kite downwind and will definately be docked and in the bar or already pulled out, derigged and gone if directly competing upwind under motor.