Grith

Cruising on a Trailer Sailer

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Hi All Just thought I would open a thread on an alternative type of cruising/sailing lifestyle. 

I have owned trailable sailboats for about 40 years and have camped on these extensively over several periods. 

The longest trip was just over 4 months including on water extended periods with the longest being for around 5 weeks in the Whitsunday’s in northern Queensland Australia. This trip was on a tiny trailable 20 foot dynal sheathed plywood bridge deck catamaran ( Jarcat 6 ) which was 8 foot wide. 

It had a  long bridgedeck double bed and two under cockpit single coffin berths, a maxi stove, sink and bench top on one side and a marine toilet on the other it was minamalist but adequate for a great adventure for a couple then in our fourties. 

I equipped it with twin 100amp batteries, unisolar flexible panels, a compressor fridge, cockpit over boom shade and it had an 18hp outboard which would push it to 15 knots if required. 

We also used the yacht on land as a caravan travelling through the middle of Australia back to the west coast having purchased it on the east coast. 

This was what I call camper sailing as distinct from cruising. No standing headroom, not much carrying capacity and a very light weight yacht. However we sailed out to the outer islands and also sailed through a 35knot blow with big steep waves in our little cat. 

Friends have used a much larger ( tiny by cruising yacht standards ) 25 foot Trailer Sailer ( Court 750) for much more extensive trailer Sailer based cruising for nearly 30 years spending around half of each year travelling and sailing. 

They have spent many months at sea at times especially in the wild and beautiful Kimberley’s region of WA whilst also trailing their yacht to multiple sailing destinations right around Australia on multiple occassions. 

They have sailed in more unique places and done more living on their yacht than the varst magority of big cruising yacht owners. 

I have recently purchased an even larger 28 foot trailable yacht and have just commenced my goal of a similar life. 

My yacht choice is an attempt like theirs to move one step up from camping on board to having a very small but usable home on water that can also be relatively easily be used on land whilst doing 60 knots upwind between ideal but remote cruising grounds. 

My unusual choice has standing headroom at 6 foot 1, an enclosed head (and tiny internal shower), small galley with 2 burner stove, sink, icebox and compressor fridge/freezer,  a generous length large double under the cockpit and another very large v berth along with 1.5 settee berths. 

Whilst large to tow at around 3.2 ton on trailer it is about 2.5 meters wide making it unrestricted in nearly all towing locations. Part of this fairly heavy weight for a 28 foot yacht is its enourmous diesel inboard engine at 180hp making it a very unusual motor sailing package capable of good cruising speeds under sail and 25knots under power fully laden. 

Before the traditionalists start screaming can I say the coasts of Australia have very many rivermouth bars with conditions generally unsuitable for yachts with inadequate power to push out through the waves or the speed to ride the back of those waves back in. We also have tidal areas with currents moving in excess of 6 knots otherwise completely dominating passage planning causing conflict between wind, tide and time. 

Having previously had the luxury of 15knots on my Jarcat it really did open up destinations that were very difficult to access for conventionally speed limited yachts and allowed us to explore areas otherwise too risky for such a small craft. The ability to cross large distances fast in calmer weather windows ( say the morning before the really gusty afternoon sea breeze kicks in) or to run back to cover from sudden storm fronts was great. 

My intention as I transition to retirement is to use my trailable yacht for around half of each year to explore multiple suitable patches of water to sail from lakes and rivers to every inshore cruising destination in Australia and perhaps even ship it across to NZ and do the same for a period over there. 

Just thought I would open this discussion around an alternative to conventional blue water cruising. 

Regards Graeme Imexus 28 Australia 

 

 

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20 gal of fresh water is small and a 25 gal fuel tank is not going to last long. Added lead ballast is needed over 20 knots. You can see from this it is weight sensitive. If it needs that much motor you have a gas pig. A Mac26 came out for our club races and it was frankly poor upwind and devastated in light air. Not sure but that boat may require signage to tow in AUS. 2.55 beam.

It is a Swan style cabin with a stripe like an 80's Hunter 34 on the windows. http://www.mysailing.com.au/news/the-imexus-28-powersailer-now-available-in-australia

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Hi Norse Horse  

My yacht has a 140litre stainless diesel tank and consumes 1.6 litres per hour at 5.5-6 knots hull speed cruising giving it a huge range.  It also tows my daughter kneeboarding at 20 plus knots at 18 liters per hour. 

My modified rub rail at 2.5 meters width doesn’t require overwidth towing signs and no permits required even at 2.55 metres wide now in Australia only the overwidth signage as stated. My fresh water capacity is 370 liters including 200 of which are in two 100 litre freshwater ballast bags with fast transfer pump system. With an extra third battery and cruising gear along with the low mounted inboard engine and all the tankage I am no longer using the 730 liters water ballast for sailing in regular conditions as the stability is absolutely fine without it due to this low mounted extra weight. Reaching with big mast head asymmetrical kite in moderate winds might require the movable water ballast but I have yet to test this yet. The 730 liters water ballast extra hull carrying capacity is great as is the double underwater hull extra security. It is always still available to create in five minutes a much more stable yacht again if extreme conditions require this. 

Your sailing comment is similar to some others from club racers around racing basically cruising boats. Most conventional old long shallow keel cruising boats where not speedsters yet had few comments of this nature. Off the breeze my yacht is fine speed wise with a planning stern and up wind she points but isn’t as fast as some more racing oriented yachts . Cruising is generally done off the breeze especially if directly into the wind destinations can be despatched very quickly under motor at planing speeds. 

I have previously owned a 20 foot sportboat type Trailer Sailer with huge Spinnaker Shute launched kite and 2 meter deep stainless encased lead foil drop keel which would cleanup just about every trailable yacht I see sailing in Sat and Sunday fleets and that got similar critism but at the other end of the spectrum. It had the required two berths and internal volume but all the bunk cushions, ports potti, and other stuff never left my shed as it was just stripped for racing. Horses for courses in my view. If I want to race again I will buy a really fast boat and have done the same regarding owning a really comfortable cruising one.  

The thread was designed to discuss trailable cruising alternatives to keel boats not around the cans stuff by weekend sailers but that is where the discussion on Macgregors or alternatives like mine often focus. 

Regards Graeme 

 

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Hi All

Regarding the comment above from very experienced member here Norse Horse about the Imexus 28 only carrying full sail up to 20 knots. Most trailable yachts start to reef at around this wind speed so its hardly an indication that it's really tender. I don't know what Norse Horse sail's, where and how ( I would be interested to know as it generally informs peoples opinions ) but in fact most modern yachts with large tall rigs start cutting back on sail at not much higher wind speeds this as well.

Much as I am happy to defend Macgregors as I have seen them perform feats and visit places seldom done by other yachts I will state here that the Imexus28 and Australian designed and built Mach28 are a significant step up again in quality and capability both as sailing boats and mini trailable cruising platforms with a different motoring ability to most yachts. Both were commissioned by major sail boat dealers that were also Macgregor distributors at that time after their careful review of the benefits and marketability of the Macgregors but seeking to improve the actual product substantially.  

The briefs were then given to well regarded yacht designers who developed these two similar but different upgraded alternatives. I had a deposit on a Mach28 16 years ago when life took a sudden turn and my trailable cruising sailing dreams were shelved. All these years later I am actually underway again and selected the Imexus28 which in my view is an improvement again on the concept.

Side decks for going forward, more yacht like interior instead of all white fiberglass, an inboard option to remove the big weight hanging over the stern were contributing factors along with many very clever innovations like integrated permanently attached one person mast raising and lowing equipment, bowsprit with self launching anchor, masses of separate storage compartments, built in waste holding tank location and a huge swim platform. 

I was however interested in just discussing using larger trailable yachts of any brand as alternatives to keel boats or catamarans for cruising and comments around the Mac's racing ability seem to indicate Norse Horse may be more a weekend racer than a cruising oriented yachtie but I wait to be corrected.

Regards Graeme  

PS I have just looked up what R2AK2019 is and see its offshore racing sailing. So assume Norse Horse has a racing bent. Yes my yacht is not a racing boat or even a blue water cruiser so perhaps different objectives in a sailing life now from him. I have done the Sydney to Hobart on a Super Maxi (as rail meat and fore-deck hand) in my distant past along with a couple of Perth to Geraldton races in Western Australia and decided that long passage ocean racing just wasn't my scene and it also put me off long distance blue water cruising as well. My preference is a nice half day sail to a secluded beach somewhere and watch the sunset from the back deck, drink in hand preferably with good company!

 

 

 

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Did Frank move to OZ??

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Hi Norse Horse Did a bit more research on you. Young 6 meter water ballasted and participation in a 750 mile no motor race challenge. Suggest you might be a bit like me 30 plus years ago. LOL

I was an ex extreme whitewater kayaker, motor racing driver, performance yacht sailor, and a fair number of other fairly out there things as well.

The fastest trailer sailer I personally owned was a direct competitor to your Young water ballast 6 meter. It was a JOG rated 1/8th tonner 6 meter dynal sheathed diagonal layup red cedar flyer and used to beat the 2 probably fairly similar 6 meter Young's I raced against back then. The only faster trailer sailers  were a well sailed Spider 28 and a super lightweighted Ross 780 which were both 8 foot longer.

Age and stage mean those days are over now whilst doing the odd lap around some yacht at 20 plus knots with a skier in tow still with  a 9 meter mast (at a very respectful long distance of course!) is a bit of a stir as they limp back to harbor on a windless day. LOL.

Regards Graeme

 

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7 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi Norse Horse  

My yacht has a 140litre stainless diesel tank and consumes 1.6 litres per hour at 5.5-6 knots hull speed cruising giving it a huge range.  It also tows my daughter kneeboarding at 20 plus knots at 18 liters per hour. 

My modified rub rail at 2.5 meters width doesn’t require overwidth towing signs and no permits required even at 2.55 metres wide now in Australia only the overwidth signage as stated. My fresh water capacity is 370 liters including 200 of which are in two 100 litre freshwater ballast bags with fast transfer pump system. With an extra third battery and cruising gear along with the low mounted inboard engine and all the tankage I am no longer using the 730 liters water ballast for sailing in regular conditions as the stability is absolutely fine without it due to this low mounted extra weight. Reaching with big mast head asymmetrical kite in moderate winds might require the movable water ballast but I have yet to test this yet. The 730 liters water ballast extra hull carrying capacity is great as is the double underwater hull extra security. It is always still available to create in five minutes a much more stable yacht again if extreme conditions require this. 

Your sailing comment is similar to some others from club racers around racing basically cruising boats. Most conventional old long shallow keel cruising boats where not speedsters yet had few comments of this nature. Off the breeze my yacht is fine speed wise with a planning stern and up wind she points but isn’t as fast as some more racing oriented yachts . Cruising is generally done off the breeze especially if directly into the wind destinations can be despatched very quickly under motor at planing speeds. 

I have previously owned a 20 foot sportboat type Trailer Sailer with huge Spinnaker Shute launched kite and 2 meter deep stainless encased lead foil drop keel which would cleanup just about every trailable yacht I see sailing in Sat and Sunday fleets and that got similar critism but at the other end of the spectrum. It had the required two berths and internal volume but all the bunk cushions, ports potti, and other stuff never left my shed as it was just stripped for racing. Horses for courses in my view. If I want to race again I will buy a really fast boat and have done the same regarding owning a really comfortable cruising one.  

The thread was designed to discuss trailable cruising alternatives to keel boats not around the cans stuff by weekend sailers but that is where the discussion on Macgregors or alternatives like mine often focus. 

Regards Graeme 

 

There are a few shoal draft trailerables I like, the sharpies, many NZ and AUS designs, the S2, early MacGregors and Ventures, Seaward 26 and the Perry 32 trailer sailer.

There is a thread here you may like to check out too.

 

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Hi Norse Horse Thanks for the links they were really interesting. 

My comment however is that drop keels with bulbs are not great in uncharted waters or for drying out in significant tidal areas. My own flier took out the keel case and nearly sank after hitting a sand bar at around 9-10 knots after a power boat had snagged a rounding mark and dragged it onto a sand bar. The joys of leading the fleet planing under kite. 

Swing keels might sail like crap upwind comparatively but do provide an alternative depth sounder when encountering that coral bommie or prominent rock in muddy waters caused by fast moving tidal flows. I have performed quick course changes after the dreaded bang with little damage as the keel has partially retracted into the case. 

Drying out on a falling tide late at night or in the very early hours with a bulb is also really tricky. 

Finally launching ramps in remote locations or into waterways not usually frequented by yachts often will often not cope with these type of yachts. 

I did lots of research before my ultimate  selection. Regards Graeme 

 

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I trailer-cruised with my wife, and occasionally our dog, for about 12 years. We went all over the east and gulf coast of the US, including a number of lakes.

I never felt the desire to motor fast. Highways and gas stations are congested enough that a smaller boat was more desirable than room for everything. The boat was very simple, our water system was a series of jugs..... going out longer or further into the boonies, bring more...... but over the years I upgraded the key systems so that everything worked smoothly and easily and reliably. For example I could lower the mast underway so that we could go under bridges into smaller rivers that never saw another cruiser. I improved the reefing system so that we could shorten down for lunch, or for bad weather, with no hassle and plenty comfort/security for my wife.

Graeme I am glad you like your boat. It doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

My advice is to not skimp on trailer maintenance.

FB- Doug

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17 hours ago, Grith said:

Whilst large to tow at around 3.2 ton on trailer it is about 2.5 meters wide making it unrestricted in nearly all towing locations. Part of this fairly heavy weight for a 28 foot yacht is its enourmous diesel inboard engine at 180hp making it a very unusual motor sailing package capable of good cruising speeds under sail and 25knots under power fully laden. 

Before the traditionalists start screaming can I say the coasts of Australia have very many rivermouth bars with conditions generally unsuitable for yachts with inadequate power to push out through the waves or the speed to ride the back of those waves back in. We also have tidal areas with currents moving in excess of 6 knots otherwise completely dominating passage planning causing conflict between wind, tide and time. 

Hah! You have a mast on a motorboat and I generally disapprove but generally such boats aren't any good for wakeboarding nor surfing in dangerous bars.

Yours seems to be an exception and sounds like fun. Also, just saying "180 hp diesel in 28 ft sailboat" cracks me up and boats are here to amuse us.

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I do a kind of camp cruising thing on my 21 foot Sharpie.  My wife, 2 kids and a dog.  We were out for nearly a month this summer.  We can sleep on board; the wife and kids in the tiny cabin and the dog and I in the cockpit under the boom tent.  We try to beach every night though.  

 

A 21 foot Sharpie is a small boat, but it can carry a lot of camping gear and the boat only needs a little mud or sand to beach on.  Once we are ashore we are pretty comfortable, we have a nice 3 season tent and a 12 x 12 kitchen gazebo with standing headroom.  We dismount the solar system from the boat and carry it to the camp site and run our personal electronics off a 150 watt inverter.  We also carry our stove up to the camp site. 

 

Camp set up can be kind of a big deal especially in rugged or hilly terrain, so we will often stay at a camp site for several days; snorkeling, kayaking and hiking.  Trailer is a single axle galvanised we tow behind our minivan.

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I had a Jaguar 22 which was a UK built clone of a Catalina 22. Mine was the swing keel version. 

I towed it up to Troon in Scotland one year and over 10 weeks sailed it to Arran, round the Mull of Kintyre to Gigha and on to Jura Plockton Skye and Stornoway. On the return I used the Crinan Canal..

Next summer I trailed it down to the Adriatic and sailed it from Pula through the Kornati to Albania and back.

25 gallons of water and 4 gallons of petrol for the 8 hp outboard was fine. Mine had a pop top but I used the cockpit more with a simple awning rigged over the boom. This was in the late 80s so navigation was compass paper chart and depth sounder. 

I had a great time and learned a lot. This converted me to to a cruising lifestyle and I now have 15 years of being a full time liveaboard. 

 

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Trailer sailing requires coping with various things, and it's viable in proportion to the crew's ability to cope. Back in the day, there was a magazine article about 4 people taking a 6 week cruise in Alaska on a Cal 21. I reaction was that one could hardly choose less suitable boat. Zero storage room. Barely room for 4 people to lie down at the same time, and hardly enough headroom for anyone to sit up. It was designed to be a sporty day boat. But they coped, apparently.

 

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A big factor in trailer sailing is raising the mast. The crew can step the mast of a Capri 22 if there are a couple of them and they are young and strong. Anything much larger, and you are starting to think some specialized gear is in order. Or, you put the mast in a tabernacle.

Phil Bolger designed a fleet of boats that could be trailer-sailers. One that I like the look of is the Long Micro.  This picture shows a nice one. I'm not sure the trailer arrangement is the best, but you can clearly see how the unstayed mast is pivoted in a tabernacle.  The boat has a long shoal keel so the interior is not obstructed by a CB trunk.

 

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Hi All In response re mast raising. The Imexus has a really very clever permenantly attached mast raising system with an A frame and multi purchase block system on the bow which then runs back to one of the sheet winches. The A frame is mounted to stauntion bases either side and in addition a pair of baby side stays are precisely located to remain tensioned during the raising and lowering process. This combined with a mast roller on the targa bar results in a quick 1 person mast raising process which my slight 15 yo daughter has managed herself. It also enables very easy on water lowing for bridges and powerlines. 

For some above yes I entirely understand thoughts about having such a big engine on board but in a cruising remote costal destinations situation as distinct from normal around a home base day sailing or blue water cruising there are advantages that make it attractive. Also quick runs to offshore destinations otherwise a bit too challenging for inshore trailer sailers  become viable. 

Perhaps I should post some videos of yachts coming to grief crossing breaking river mouth bars as the following wave caught them due to inadequate speed or being swept backwards on tidal currents or sudden flows down rivers to show some examples of why. 

Generally I motor when required at under hull speed like others but both the ability to do so much more and the huge alternator are really nice features to have. 

Regards Graeme 

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Hi All Regardless of all the above and some focus on my admittedly very unusual choice I was really seeking to open a discussion on using larger conventional trailer sailers as semi live aboard cruising platforms rather than smaller ones for lovely camping trips as highlighted by some. 

In Australia a large number of early, semi and now much older retirees use large caravans and motorhomes as part of each year living bases returning to their retained homes for commitments, grandchildren and established neighbourhoods and friends for the rest of the year. 

This is distinct from selling up everything and moving to a trailer park or a mobile life or moving to a permanent live aboard cruiser of some kind. 

It is the boating/yachting edge of this crowd I was seeking to engage in the Trailer Sailer alternative along with some who were considering larger cruising yachts with often limited ability to access new and different cruising grounds without long and sometimes challenging blue water passages.  3-6 months exploring multiple and unusual cruising grounds generally on water but with land transit upwind at 60knots between cruising destinations is my goal and has been a wonderful life for several now much older friends of mine. 

This requires in my view standing headroom, storage, decent toilet facilities, comfortable beds( berths) and carrying capacity for adequate water, fuel and the like. 

These large trailable mini cruisers will generally weigh in between 4,000 to 7,500 lbs on trailer and mostly require a 4x4 rather than family sedan to tow. 

Large caravans however require these same vehicles and in this country there are big numbers of Grey nomads ( as we call them) out on the roads. Obviously small families seeking a cruising experience could also go this way but  too many in the cramped conditions might be a put off for some. 

We have a variety of often relatively cheap large trailer sailers potentially available to convert from weekend use to this mini trailable cruiser style of yacht. RL28’s, Magnum 850’s, Court 750’s, Beale 850’s, South Coast 25’s are just some of these available here. 

All are around 25-28 foot long, under 8 foot 4 wide and can be launched off realatively shallow trailable power boat ramps. 

Macgregor yachts in the US built much lighter versions successfully capitalising on exactly this niche though perhaps with an even more caravan alternative focus along with power boat capability which attracted a lot of people very new to sailing. The compromises involved and the huge number of newbies gave these yachts a bit of a reputation but many very experienced sailers have purchased and upgraded these and found them very successful in achieving their goals. 

I would like to focus on these larger TS’s and their potential use as a part year cruising platform. 

Re comments on problems with centreboard cases intruding into accommadation  I attach a photo showing this and with careful layout it is hardly noticeable. The table sides fold down and there is a four bottle wine rack in the middle of the table. :)

Regards Graeme 

 

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi All Regardless of all the above and some focus on my admittedly very unusual choice I was really seeking to open a discussion on using larger conventional trailer sailers as semi live aboard cruising platforms rather than smaller ones for lovely camping trips as highlighted by some. 

In Australia a large number of early, semi and now much older retirees use large caravans and motorhomes as part of each year living bases returning to their retained homes for commitments, grandchildren and established neighbourhoods and friends for the rest of the year. 

This is distinct from selling up everything and moving to a trailer park or a mobile life or moving to a permanent live aboard cruiser of some kind. 

It is the boating/yachting edge of this crowd I was seeking to engage in the Trailer Sailer alternative along with some who were considering larger cruising yachts with often limited ability to access new and different cruising grounds without long and sometimes challenging blue water passages.  3-6 months exploring multiple and unusual cruising grounds generally on water but with land transit upwind at 60knots between cruising destinations is my goal and has been a wonderful life for several now much older friends of mine. 

This requires in my view standing headroom, storage, decent toilet facilities, comfortable beds( berths) and carrying capacity for adequate water, fuel and the like. 

These large trailable mini cruisers will generally weigh in between 4,000 to 7,500 lbs on trailer and mostly require a 4x4 rather than family sedan to tow. 

Large caravans however require these same vehicles and in this country there are big numbers of Grey nomads ( as we call them) out on the roads. Obviously small families seeking a cruising experience could also go this way but  too many in the cramped conditions might be a put off for some. 

We have a variety of often relatively cheap large trailer sailers potentially available to convert from weekend use to this mini trailable cruiser style of yacht. RL28’s, Magnum 850’s, Court 750’s, Beale 850’s, South Coast 25’s are just some of these available here. 

All are around 25-28 foot long, under 8 foot 4 wide and can be launched off realatively shallow trailable power boat ramps. 

Macgregor yachts in the US built much lighter versions successfully capitalising on exactly this niche though perhaps with an even more caravan alternative focus along with power boat capability which attracted a lot of people very new to sailing. The compromises involved and the huge number of newbies gave these yachts a bit of a reputation but many very experienced sailers have purchased and upgraded these and found them very successful in achieving their goals. 

I would like to focus on these larger TS’s and their potential use as a part year cruising platform. 

Regards Graeme 

 

 

 

Everyone here knows that the only safe way to cruise is in a welded raw-steel Swain design. Jeesh.

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Hi Raz’r Thanks for your support.  Some people can be a bit one eyed! Regards Graeme 

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Hi All Just a couple of shots of a Trailer Sailer on the road in Australia. One is sleeping on board in the middle of an Australian desert and the other at a gas station out there at sunset. We pulled up near to one roadtrain and came out to find it between two of these monsters. We did the across Australia trip in 3 days from West to East. It would be an epic nearly month long very challenging sail to have moved the yacht by sail/power. Regards Graeme 

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I have attached here a link to a video of a couple of mates in a Trailer Sailer travelling to then cruising in the iconic Kimberley’s in Western Australia. 

 

Much of these cruising grounds are almost out of bounds for conventional blue water cruisers due to depth restrictions. Regardless large TS’s make excellent cruising yachts for these type of trips when properly equipped and sorted. 

Regards Graeme 

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The Kimberley trip looks like fun.  I think for a trip like that I would like a beachable Bolger or similar style boat, but there is something to be said for standing headroom and a head that flushes.  

The trip really does seem pretty similar to how I see most trailer sailers used regardless of size.  Pack up, hitch up and head to a cruising ground; 2 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks.  I think the time frame is largely dependant on available vacation time.

Boat size comes down to personal preference and budget.  Around 22 feet seems to be a sweet spot for trailer sailers because it seems to be kind of a size where boats can retain good sailing characteristics and good trailering characteristics without too much compromise one way or the other.

I certainly see people doing well in bigger trailer sailers as well.  For all the heat Macs take, you do see a lot of weathered looking Macs cruising areas that are normally only accessible to smaller boats.  

In 2018, I trailered about 3000 miles.  Did a 4 week trip, a 3 week trip and a 1 week trip.

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Hi TBW I have done lots of camper sailing in the past in smaller TS’s but provisions, cold drinks, shade whilst sailing, inside comfort for that several days the weather front moves through, and spending months rather than weeks onboard generally dictate larger TS’s especially for those of us approaching retirement and more likely to be now looking at caravans rather than hiking tents. The Ross 830 in the video above is 27.5 foot long. 

Also note that video was two blokes and it’s often even harder to get the older fairer sex to spend weeks in tiny spaces without being able to stand or toilet privately. :) 

Note high set carrying height ( 3.8 meters) for the mast is to allow Bimini and Dodger with link panels to be used under the mast whilst on land transiting between cruising grounds which can be big distances here in Australia. Targa bar and Bimini will fold down if low clearance bridge requires 3.2m which is the minimum land air clearance available. 

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17 hours ago, Grith said:

I entirely understand thoughts about having such a big engine on board but in a cruising remote costal destinations situation as distinct from normal around a home base day sailing or blue water cruising there are advantages that make it attractive. Also quick runs to offshore destinations otherwise a bit too challenging for inshore trailer sailers  become viable. 

Perhaps I should post some videos of yachts coming to grief crossing breaking river mouth bars as the following wave caught them due to inadequate speed or being swept backwards on tidal currents or sudden flows down rivers to show some examples of why. 

"Jupiter Inlet" would be a good search term to try.

The quick run offshore would be useful here, where good fishing in the Gulf starts about 20 miles out and gets better as you go further. A 60 mile round trip in a sailboat doesn't leave a whole lot of daylight for fishing.

14 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi All Regardless of all the above and some focus on my admittedly very unusual choice I was really seeking to open a discussion on using larger conventional trailer sailers as semi live aboard cruising platforms rather than smaller ones for lovely camping trips as highlighted by some. 

A trailerable powerboat makes a better cruiser on water and camper on land. Roomier, no annoying mast laying there when you're camping on land, and it can carry a fun sailboat.

The C-Brats have made this an art form.

Your sailboat seems like a fun powerboat, but can it carry one? Depends on your definition of "fun powerboat" but my minimum requirement would be cruising at 15 knots with 3 people and gear.

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Hi Tom I actually like the peace and tranquility of sailing most of the time along with the ability to do several weeks to months without coming back to refuel as most distances are covered under sail.  As far as speed under engine my very unusual yacht can do around 25 knots with a full cruising load and 4-5 people on board. With a significant cruising load and 4 on board it was towing my daughter kneeboarding at this speed briefly and at 20-22 knots constantly. During its engine commissioning trials with two on board, a full 140 liters of fuel, mast up and sails stowed on board it achieved 30knots at 4000rpm which I think would make it close to the fastest genuinely sailing oriented craft around. 

It’s powering ability wasn’t why I purchased it but I feel it makes a much better trailable live on package than most powerboats which wouldn’t interest me at all. Regards Graeme  

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2 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi Tom I actually like the peace and tranquility of sailing most of the time along with the ability to do several weeks to months without coming back to refuel as most distances are covered under sail.

Those are both good reasons to go the way you did.

30 knots? Yipes.

How does the rig behave in chop at those speeds?

I didn't measure but got up somewhere in the 20's on a MacGregor 19 and the way the rig was battling around up there scared the crap out of me.

 

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Hi Tom It was amazingly good really. I have done some powerboating towing skiers, tubers and the like in both ski boats and trailable power boats. It was smoother in the chop and wake crossing than either of these and gentler on wave landings due to the rounder sailing hull form I feel. As far as mast shock the back stay was tensioned and there was much less jolting and mast shock than the usual upwind legs on our regular 20 knot breeze upwind works on the shallow lake that is my home waters. Based on experience in the larger Macgregor Powersailers  (haven’t sailed a 19) it is a different animal. Much thicker and stiffer hull, much more weight and much better balance with the weight being further forward as it is a low mounted inboard. The turning ability was fantastic with the sideways carving lean much more pronounced than a powerboat but with no cavitation or sideslip what so ever. I was really impressed as my recent day with my daughters friends tubing, kneeboarding etc was the first real all day throw it around high speed thrashing I had given it usually just sailing , staying at hull speed and a couple of quick straight line speed tests. Regards Graeme 

PS your comment around the mast getting in the road on land was precisely why I have it set on a targa bar above my 6 foot 2 head height over the whole cockpit. 

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1 hour ago, Contumacious Tom said:

"Jupiter Inlet" would be a good search term to try.

The quick run offshore would be useful here, where good fishing in the Gulf starts about 20 miles out and gets better as you go further. A 60 mile round trip in a sailboat doesn't leave a whole lot of daylight for fishing.

A trailerable powerboat makes a better cruiser on water and camper on land. Roomier, no annoying mast laying there when you're camping on land, and it can carry a fun sailboat.

The C-Brats have made this an art form.

Your sailboat seems like a fun powerboat, but can it carry one? Depends on your definition of "fun powerboat" but my minimum requirement would be cruising at 15 knots with 3 people and gear.

Hi Tom Just reviewed the C-Brats you mentioned. I feel the Imexus is a more capable all round craft than these. Even the big ones had less sleeping accomodation and although I only looked at 7 none of these really impressed me that much. I understand I have a sailing bias but I did previously do extensive alternative platform reviews including trailable houseboats, cruising powerboats ( though not the C-Brats which I haven’t seen in Australia) and many alternative large trailable yachts. I also looked at big live on board catamarans and mono’s but I like getting to different places and also non conventional locations like mountain lakes, long rivers, big dams and the like. 

The combination of trailability, shallow draft, lowering mast, wind and electrical motive power( 1003 Torqeedo secondary auxiliary) , adequate standing headroom living quarters and the huge inboard’s power on tap for occassionally use sold me on going well over my budget for the Imexus which was almost unused and cost me around $50,000 US ($80,000 Aus ) with 20 hours on the engine and less than 40 hours of water under the keel. 

Most big TS’s here range from around $15,000 to $60,000 Aus so it was out of the box expensive but whilst a 2009/10 build it was virtually a brand new boat with some bunk cushions and a sail still in the manufacturers sealed plastic bags. 

There are some great alternative big TS’s for sale here in Australia a lot cheaper but every extended use makes me more confident of my selection. 

Regards Graeme 

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2 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

"Jupiter Inlet" would be a good search term to try.

The quick run offshore would be useful here, where good fishing in the Gulf starts about 20 miles out and gets better as you go further. A 60 mile round trip in a sailboat doesn't leave a whole lot of daylight for fishing.

A trailerable powerboat makes a better cruiser on water and camper on land. Roomier, no annoying mast laying there when you're camping on land, and it can carry a fun sailboat.

The C-Brats have made this an art form.

Your sailboat seems like a fun powerboat, but can it carry one? Depends on your definition of "fun powerboat" but my minimum requirement would be cruising at 15 knots with 3 people and gear.

Having run a few inlets in my time, and only having run fast motorboats a few of those times, I can say with absolute certainty that a big-ass engine is not necessary for running inlets with standing waves or breakers. It's certainly convenient though.

I looked pretty hard at getting a C-Dory after getting out of the cruising slow powerboat (you could call it a tug or a trawler). We have a bunch of neighbors with them. Nice boats but they look tougher than they are, they don't handle the afternoon chop well. The boat we ended up getting is in another class entirely, much bigger, heavier, much more horsepower (it's still not really fast), so it's not a fair comparison. The best C-Dory story I know of is the guy who took one across the continental US via the lakes & rivers, notably following Lewis & Clark's route up the Missouri and down the Snake. We couldn't do that in our current boat!

Trailerable- at some point, you go from "trailerable" to "truckable." The expense of a tow vehicle was absolutely part of the equation for me, so when we shopped for a cruising trailerable, it had to be at a curb weight of 2500 lbs or less. This was a cruiser, most nights we spent aboard were at anchor in a cove somewhere, but we could pull it right up to a beach. A camp-cruiser where you carry tents and spend nights ashore would be another class IMHO. We had a fold-up cabin top & dodger that gave standing headroom, but full-time standing headroom and inboard diesels etc etc bump the boat up into the next bigger category or class (needing a bigger tow vehicle).

Everything is a trade-off. Lots of great boats out there, I have come to believe that almost every boat represents a good compromise -if- you can work with instead of against it's strengths.

FB- Doug

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Interesting thread. I am not much interested in this myself, if I got into a trailer boat to cruise it would be a powerboat because I would not be trying to go the places I go now. I would be all over the extensive system of inland rivers and canals we have that are full of bridges.

I see these boats in camp sites fairly often:

270T615NB-for-2009-Ranger-Tug-25.jpg

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@Grith    Thanks for starting the topic.  As is always the case here (why this place rocks) others have done more, some a lot more.    Likewise my venues are different then yours, mostly freshwater with a bit of brackish.  My 'cruising' has mostly been great lakes so far, and is limited by time work can survive without me to about a week counting road time.   Shallow draft was important to me.   Kentucky lake is shallow and Erie can be shallow at the ramps, especially after warm winters when it doesn't freeze over to limit evaporation.  Therefore I could predict most sailing time would be affected by draft.   I also had single handed rigging and launching requirements.    An Explorer will drop from 12 l / 100 km (20 mpg) without trailer to half that trying to haul even my modest boat over the Appalachians on a single axle.  I can get about 16 mpg on flat farmland.    A heavy truck that can shrug off the load is overkill most of the time.  I wanted a small boat.  Crew size is solo or two people with only one being a sailing nut.   I do like a certain amount of comfort despite this., a step between camping and yachting.   As you noted, a head is important if you want to entice female companionship.   I face light winds as often as heavy.   Obviously my ideal boat is different from yours.   

Your quest for horsepower makes sense with a planing hull or motoring against a headwind.  I'm stating this because I've seen incorrect arguments made on other forums.   Without a fast hull, the horsepower benefit is limited to overcoming a headwind.   Hull speed limits most boats to about 6 knots against the water regardless of horsepower.  If current is two knots against the bow, you can make 4 knots over ground with any motor that will achieve hull speed.   As a sailor and environmentalist, the answer is the smallest, lightest and most efficient motor that will push water to make hull speed.  I am personally unlikely to motor against a strong headwind for any length of time.  If the pucker factor or leeway is too great to sail, I'm going to do everything possible not to put myself in the position of motoring against it for long.   Waves (short period steep ones) quickly increase with wind on the great lakes so I may daysail near a marina with reefed sails, but I'm not going to attempt an all day hop as my personal safety window.   As long as I have enough power to fight against 25 knots long enough to get out of a harbor, more doesn't benefit me.   In my 1400 kg boat with a LWL just over 6 m, 6 hp achieves this and also gives me 20 nautical miles / gallon on a calm day (1-2 foot confused chop or less).   

Yes, I know the forestay hasn't been tensioned yet.

 

20160413_180004096_iOS (2).jpg

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Hi All As can been seen from the responses it is a wide and varied world out there. Comments from powerboaters about the pain of dealing with masts I feel are affected by never having enjoyed the tranquility of moving under sail or the joy of pitting your wits against the wind to go somewhere without using fuel. My own yacht has a very clever intergrated mast lowering system which can allow the mast to be lowered for bridges and powerlines  very easily. An auto pilot can allow even a solo sailer to still raise and lower the mast for these without leaving the cockpit. 

I can alternatively completely understand those not wanting to have to have big trucks to tow with. I had to upgrade form my Land Rover Discovery Sport to a VW Touareg to tow the extra load legally in this country. The Discovery Sport engine would have easily coped as it is similar to that now fitted to the Gen 5 Discovery but the manufacturer had a lower tow rating. 

My Touareg v6 diesel averaged 15.8 litres per 100 klms ( 15mpg ) on the recent 2000 mile tow which wasn’t that bad towing such a big boat almost continually into a headwind. I live in a very mountainous area ( for Australia ) and tow over a 500 meter high mountain to reach the coast from Kangaroo Valley NSW (yes I know what a cliche, but look it up as it’s beautiful and worth it) . 

I think part of the willingness to tow something this big is the plan to spend months on board whilst exploring the Kimberley’s and traversing the length of the Murray River ( our Mississippi equivilent ) which are both early trips on my retirement bucket list. 

This is different from even the several weeks I have camped onboard smaller trailer sailers previously. 

My enviromentalist bent has a 1003 torqeedo electric auxiliary fitted which provides the motive power for quietly moving when the wind isn’t there or on the nose and time isn’t pressing. It can push my heavy cruising yacht at 3.5 knots for 2 hours or at 5.5knots for half an hour flat out. I have two batteries so the backup one is on charge as well. 

Fitted solar panels run my fridge,  lighting, water pump and battery charger for the Torqeedo but the 150amp alternator on the main engine mean fast charging and hot water are also available on demand.

Everything is a compromise one of mine being my yacht is no around the cans racer due to both hull shape and all the stuff on board. However it’s a great cruiser with lots of other advantages and I hope will prove to be my ideal retirement platform for travelling and sailing 4-6 months each year. Regards All Graeme 

PS Access onto the yacht whilst travelling between cruising destinations was also something I considered in my selection process. Many yachts and powerboats have huge climbs necessary when on the trailer making the process of getting on and off a pain. The Imexus has a very solid wide tread intergrated stern ladder and an opening stern giving a much easier access whilst on land and from the water than most. 

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Hi All I missed the opportunity to post a photo of the stern of my yacht showing the realatively easy access whilst on land and the big swim platform with outdoor shower, shore power hookup etc. Apologies to the dedicated yachties and powerboat haters for the huge protrusion at the rear but whilst sailing on water it is almost completely hidden between the twin rudders not polluting the profile too much. :) 

I have now permenantly removed the tilt up rear seat leaving an open stern and have fitted a much longer tiller to allow the yacht to be comfortably tiller steered when sailing. The wheel steering system remains linked to the engine and can relink to control the rudders as well in under 30 seconds. 

This is a home mod not manufacturer feature of the Imexus. 

Photos of the ass end of many boats and people arn’t that flattering especially mine.  :)

Please refrain from posting attractive sterns both nautical and physical just to rub that in! 

2982AD68-66D6-4D7F-B343-A04834C2CB10.jpeg

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My boat deals nicely with low bridges as well. 

She is a gaff rig, which allows her to carry a respectable amount of sail with a relatively short mast (23 foot bridge clearance).

When that is not good enough, the mast is a free standing mast in a tabernacle.  I mostly sail, but I do carry a Honda 2.3 for locks, bridges and currents.  I have no autopilot so it is easier 2 up.  One person to steer, one person to deal with the mast.  I figure it takes about 90 seconds to get the sails down and another 120 seconds to lower the mast and then the same to put mast and sails back up, so I figure 7-10 minutes lost per bridge.

I have done it single handed by either drifting or anchoring while I deal with the mast, but I prefer to have a helper.

 

 

 

 

 

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How do you guys handle long term parking?   Calling public ramps and working up the phone tree making arrangements for what they often perceive to be a novel request seems to be one of the hassles of planning a trip.   Since my time off is limited, and has to be scheduled in advance, I end up planning two or three vacations for the same week, and only decide where I am going in the last 24 hours based on long term weather forecasts.   Since I often marina hop, and some places lack decent anchorages, the uncertainty of even what lake I will be on means marina reservations are subject to change.   On the great lakes off peak weekends or at the ends of the season, marinas and ramps are much easier going then the bastards at Expedia, but it is still a hassle.   What do others do?   

Of course this is both the challenge and great advantage of trailer sailors.   Keelboaters are stuck making due with sucky weather in the vicinity of their home port, we just change our launching point to chase the wind.   

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Bolger again. This boat was designed as a trailer boat, but it was mostly a yard trailer, not a road trailer. Overall Length is 35'. Bolger kept the weight down by using mostly water ballast, though there is metal plate on the flat portion of the bottom for protection against rocks.  Dry weight is supposedly about 11,000lbs. The rig is cat-yawl. The foresail in the drawing is a tight-luff spinnaker set with a pole.  The engine has been squeezed out the hull and put in the yawl boat, as pictured. 

Beam is 8'11". Bolger felt he could go over the usual width limits since road trips would be rare. 

 

 

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That's interesting, Semi. The dry weight of that Bolger @ 11,000 lbs is the same as our C&C 35. We have about 4400 lbs of lead in our numbers, how come the Bolger is so heavy?

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I started with a MacGregor 26x; yeah, I'm one of those suckers. The boat all in all was a good introduction into sailing. I enjoyed going out throwing the sails up and bobing along for a few hours then speeding back under the outboard; I had bumped mine up to a 90HP and it would do 20+ knts loaded up. The boat did suck for point A to point B type sailing and I got my ass kicked on a end of the year race a few times with the club I was with at the time which ultimately opened my eyes to racing. Trailering was a bit of a pain in the ass and it was tough to drag the boat out for a trip less than 2 days. 

Since the birth of my son and the re-prioritization of my sailing objectives, I'd like to move back to a trailerable boat but this time I'm thinking a Farrier. They really seem to be friendly family type boats and I really like the idea of being able to expand my cruising area via the interstate in a couple of days. Then maybe leaving the boat in a new area for a season or few months since I think it will work much better with my schedule for the foreseeable future. The boats are more spartan but for weekends, evenings and maybe a week here or their they are more than adequate.  

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2 hours ago, Lark said:

How do you guys handle long term parking?   Calling public ramps and working up the phone tree making arrangements for what they often perceive to be a novel request seems to be one of the hassles of planning a trip.   Since my time off is limited, and has to be scheduled in advance, I end up planning two or three vacations for the same week, and only decide where I am going in the last 24 hours based on long term weather forecasts.   Since I often marina hop, and some places lack decent anchorages, the uncertainty of even what lake I will be on means marina reservations are subject to change.   On the great lakes off peak weekends or at the ends of the season, marinas and ramps are much easier going then the bastards at Expedia, but it is still a hassle.   What do others do?   

Of course this is both the challenge and great advantage of trailer sailors.   Keelboaters are stuck making due with sucky weather in the vicinity of their home port, we just change our launching point to chase the wind.   

Hi Lark

As a member of my local yacht club many other yacht clubs allow reciprocal rights for visitors here in Australia. Alternatively (mainly off season) caravan parks here in Australia will often have an area down the back where they will store a car and trailer for a very small sum. Further to these transport companies will also often also have secured yard areas which again for a small fee they will allow car trailer storage if you pre arrange this.  Country police here in Australia also sometimes have holding yards for vehicles and the right approach can get access to these. Finally if there are farms around where you need to have your car and trailer then in this country the carton of beer currency can wangle a storage spot on a friendly farmers hard stand area or with a 4x4 in a paddock away from the road and in sight of their house. 

Just some thoughts for you. Regards Graeme

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2 hours ago, Ishmael said:

That's interesting, Semi. The dry weight of that Bolger @ 11,000 lbs is the same as our C&C 35. We have about 4400 lbs of lead in our numbers, how come the Bolger is so heavy?

Good question. Of course, I don't know the answer for sure. Probably the wooden construction is heavier than foam sandwich. As best I can understand the text,  the hull skin above the flat bottom is a 5/8" strip planking shell covered with 3 layers of  1/8" sheathing for 1" total thickness. The bottom is 1 1/2" and the metal plate I mentioned is 1200 lbs.  I just found a reference on-line saying the all up displacement is 13,900 lbs.

A shoal draft boat is going to be heavier than a deep keel boat because the ballast works through a much shorter lever arm, but that's water, and not included in the 11,000 lbs. Of course the C&C is going to be much faster in pretty much all conditions. 

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Hi All

I think around 7,500lbs or 3.5 ton is the most I would want to tow without a specialized vehicle. The Bolger above is definitely a bridge too far for me but each to their own.  I researched big tri's extensively myself and owned a 680 TT Farrier at one time myself which was too small for extended live aboard. They are really fast and a great platform once extended and on water but most are either very small inside or absolutely enormous things to handle the rigging and launching process potentially alone or on ramps and launching areas often designed for trailable power boats. 

The few exceptions like the very well made Dragonfly 28's look really great but are not within my budgetary limits. 

Their are lots or potentially trailable yachts that if moving once or twice a season would be really great but I feel are too cumbersome for regular travelling and in and out of the water on multiple occasions. Many would feel this around mine and other maxi trailables being also too big but I feel with the right systems and processes that 30-45 minutes from arrival to launch isn't that bad if each on water trip is at least a few days.  

Regards Graeme 

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1 hour ago, SemiSalt said:

Good question. Of course, I don't know the answer for sure. Probably the wooden construction is heavier than foam sandwich. As best I can understand the text,  the hull skin above the flat bottom is a 5/8" strip planking shell covered with 3 layers of  1/8" sheathing for 1" total thickness. The bottom is 1 1/2" and the metal plate I mentioned is 1200 lbs.  I just found a reference on-line saying the all up displacement is 13,900 lbs.

A shoal draft boat is going to be heavier than a deep keel boat because the ballast works through a much shorter lever arm, but that's water, and not included in the 11,000 lbs. Of course the C&C is going to be much faster in pretty much all conditions. 

All conditions except water of less than 6.5'. If I lived in shallow water, I think many Bolger boats would be a hoot.

I once fantasized building a Victoria, for unknown reasons except it was a beautiful boat.

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HI all.

My next trip is to The Whitsunday's in Northern Queensland in April this year. It will be a bit of a rush up and back as it is being fitted into my daughter school holidays. We hope to have 10-12 days on water with around 6-8 driving up and back from Southern NSW. I have sailed here on 6 previous occasions the last one being in July 2017 when my then turning 14 yo daughter Annabel and I hired a 33 foot Beneteau mono keel boat and spent 10 days in the islands. We loved our trip together despite a huge storm on our first day doing the Whitsunday Passage across to the Islands. A forecast of 25 knots turned into around 35 with gusts into the 40's.  The rest of the trip was lovely weather. The only frustrations were the charter cruising area restrictions meaning missing some of the best spots a little further out and the inability to get in really close as is available to trailable yachts. 

I have attached here a video of part of an experienced Trailer Sailer's trip to this same destination only shortly after Annabel and I to give people and idea of cruising here. His yacht is an RL28 designed and built by Rob Legg who has only just this week sadly passed away in his nineties. The RL28 is a great trailable cruiser that would possibly have been my choice however all the berths maxed out at 6 foot and I am 2 inches taller than that and hate sleeping scrunched. Ultimately this and other factors lead me to my Imexus 28. 

I am trying to give people here a window into trailer sailing cruising through these excellent video's produced by other enthusiasts and will commence doing similar myself ( with my daughters help initially ) shortly. 

Regards Graeme 

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13 hours ago, Grith said:

Comments from powerboaters about the pain of dealing with masts I feel are affected by never having enjoyed the tranquility of moving under sail or the joy of pitting your wits against the wind to go somewhere without using fuel.

I think you must be talking about me and I'm not a powerboater. I'm a boater. I have 12 boats at the moment, 5 with sails. 6 if you count my double Bimini's on my pontoon boat as a square rig, and having sailed that way, I do.

As for the challenge of wits vs wind, I've sailed Sun Cats upwind for fun. Though I'm not sure that's a demonstration of any intelligence. It's not as easy as sailing upwind in most boats, I can tell you that. I does outperform my square rigger.

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17 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Interesting thread. I am not much interested in this myself, if I got into a trailer boat to cruise it would be a powerboat because I would not be trying to go the places I go now. I would be all over the extensive system of inland rivers and canals we have that are full of bridges.

I see these boats in camp sites fairly often:

270T615NB-for-2009-Ranger-Tug-25.jpg

That's a Ranger Tug and the place I worked was a dealership for them for a while.

I sold one to a guy who put his two Hobie Adventure Islands on top. He actually bought it because he saw from across the boat show that we had put the dealership's AI on top. We've had our AI's since 2007 and love them. A boat that can carry two of them at a planing speed and is still reasonably trailerable and air conditioned is a pretty cool thing.

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13 hours ago, Grith said:

Photos of the ass end of many boats and people arn’t that flattering especially mine.  :)

I want to see a bigger version of that photo if you have one.

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10 hours ago, impetuous_donkey said:

Since the birth of my son and the re-prioritization of my sailing objectives, I'd like to move back to a trailerable boat but this time I'm thinking a Farrier. They really seem to be friendly family type boats and I really like the idea of being able to expand my cruising area via the interstate in a couple of days. Then maybe leaving the boat in a new area for a season or few months since I think it will work much better with my schedule for the foreseeable future. The boats are more spartan but for weekends, evenings and maybe a week here or their they are more than adequate.  

I loved our F-27 and they're all pretty well depreciated now. Find a decent one and you can play for a few years and sell it for about what you paid. Except for replacing what wears out, it's darn close to free boating and they're good fun. Too spartan for my wife, unfortunately.

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12 hours ago, TBW said:

I figure it takes about 90 seconds to get the sails down and another 120 seconds to lower the mast and then the same to put mast and sails back up, so I figure 7-10 minutes lost per bridge.

Two minutes? My record was 39 seconds to get a mast up, but I was not aware that I was being timed and could do it faster. What are you screwing around doing for all that time? ;)

This is the main obstacle between my house and open water:

rrbridgelibby.jpg

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Another aspect of trailer cruising, especially the shorebound parts: what if you're cruising with a large, stinky, often-wet, ball-obsessed doggy?

She's not even allowed at some ramps.

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Hi Tom I don’t think the dog problem is a Trailer Sailer specific one. Lots of marinas are not dog friendly yet most launching ramps in Australia are. :)

Re the F27 Yep, great boat to sail but I wouldn’t want to live on one for a couple of months and I agree hard to get the fairer sex to even contimplate that. 

Re mast lowering. I don’t think I can compete with you guys as it takes me about 2 minutes to lower my fairly big 30 foot mast and about 4 minutes to winch it back up due to the intergrated permenately fixed Aframe and multi purchase system using lots and lots of rope. 

Re number of boats I nearly have you covered. I have my Imexus28, both single and tandem Adventure Islands, a Flying Ant (daughters racing skiff),  3 white water kayaks, a touring kayak, a Canadian canoe, an SUP ( does that count) an inflatable white water canoe and an inflatable dingy. Does that count as 13. :) 

Finally I kept trying to post higher resolution photos and this site keeps rejecting them and only allowing small ones. Any tips? 

As for a bigger picture of the ass end of my Imexus28 It really isn’t that flattering with the really big donk sticking out of it and may cause distress or envy problems. :) 

Regards Graeme 

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1 hour ago, Contumacious Tom said:

Two minutes? My record was 39 seconds to get a mast up, but I was not aware that I was being timed and could do it faster. What are you screwing around doing for all that time? ;)

This is the main obstacle between my house and open water:

rrbridgelibby.jpg

Ha ha, the only reason I know the time is I took a vid of myself doing it and checked the clock on the camera, it was 1:47.  But I rounded up because I dont know how long it took the rest of the times.  My boat has too many ropes that snag on things, mostly the peak halyard and the topping lift.  

My home river has 40 something locks and a roughly equal number of bridges over 125 miles, so I do get lots of practice.

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10 minutes ago, Grith said:

Re mast lowering. I don’t think I can compete with you guys as it takes me about 2 minutes to lower my fairly big 30 foot mast and about 4 minutes to winch it back up due to the multi purchase system using lots and lots of rope. 

Your system sounds darn impressive and beats a lot of systems because it can be used on a big mast with a headsail while on the water. Doing it on the trailer is an easier trick. We made something similar for a Precision 23 owner who lived behind a bridge.

 

12 minutes ago, Grith said:

Re number of boats I nearly have you covered. I have my Imexus28, both single and tandem Adventure Islands, a Flying Ant (daughters racing skiff),  3 white water kayaks, a touring kayak, a Canadian canoe, an SUP ( does that count) an inflatable white water canoe and an inflatable dingy. Does that count as 13. :) 

Dylan helpfully started a thread for us, which has been archived due to lack of interest.

14 minutes ago, Grith said:

Finally I kept trying to post higher resolution photos and this site keeps rejecting them and only allowing small ones. Any tips? 

I'm better at doing than teaching that kind of thing but image size and resolution are related, not the same. Starting with a big image, I crop it first, resize it next, then use Photoshop's "Save For Web" which adjusts resolution and compresses.

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14 hours ago, Lark said:

How do you guys handle long term parking?   Calling public ramps and working up the phone tree making arrangements for what they often perceive to be a novel request seems to be one of the hassles of planning a trip.   Since my time off is limited, and has to be scheduled in advance, I end up planning two or three vacations for the same week, and only decide where I am going in the last 24 hours based on long term weather forecasts.   Since I often marina hop, and some places lack decent anchorages, the uncertainty of even what lake I will be on means marina reservations are subject to change.   On the great lakes off peak weekends or at the ends of the season, marinas and ramps are much easier going then the bastards at Expedia, but it is still a hassle.   What do others do?   

Of course this is both the challenge and great advantage of trailer sailors.   Keelboaters are stuck making due with sucky weather in the vicinity of their home port, we just change our launching point to chase the wind.   

I find the best places to park in no particular order are; National Parks, State Parks, Provincial Parks and Conservation Areas.  My local Conservation area charges $40/year for unlimited parking and boat launch use.  The most expensive parking I have encountered at a National Park was $20/day.   The bonus of parking at Parks and conservation areas is they are usually adjacent to some pretty nice cruisiing.

I dont really use marinas/yacht clubs unless except for the occasional use of a day dock to grab some supplies.

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14 hours ago, Ishmael said:

That's interesting, Semi. The dry weight of that Bolger @ 11,000 lbs is the same as our C&C 35. We have about 4400 lbs of lead in our numbers, how come the Bolger is so heavy?

I was just about to type the same thing, my 35 MK I is supposed to weigh 10,500 pounds empty with 5,000 pounds of lead. What the hell did they make that boat out of?

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Hi Tom OMG I had no idea I had the serious disease Polynavicular Morbus - too many boats disease. I will begin seeking treatment immediately. Thankyou for the heads up! 

 

Regards Graeme 

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2 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

Another aspect of trailer cruising, especially the shorebound parts: what if you're cruising with a large, stinky, often-wet, ball-obsessed doggy?

She's not even allowed at some ramps.

????????

WTF?

Marinas around here are full of dogs. Transients have dogs, the live-aboards have dogs, the marina itself is likely to have dogs. Anyone trying to keep dogs away from a launching ramp around here would be facing angry duck hunting rednecks with 12 gauges and Chesapeake Bay Retrievers.  Do look at my avatar ;)

* the only dog issue I ever had was when the United Nations was doing some special "Operation Diplomats all go to Saint Michaels and discuss world affairs while eating and drinking on the UN's dime" type deal at the Maritime Museum and my dog, who was fast as lightning and had a great nose, smelled the food and shot right through all the guards around their party and was begging food from all the VIPs :lol: 

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34 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

I was just about to type the same thing, my 35 MK I is supposed to weigh 10,500 pounds empty with 5,000 pounds of lead. What the hell did they make that boat out of?

Guys, keep in mind that the C&C is pretty light for its length. Per Wikipedia - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalina_30 - the original Catalina 30 displaces 10,200 lbs.

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I wonder if the Bolger boat would have significantly more framing than a C&C 35.  I havent built a Bolger boat, but I built a nesting PDRacer partially to Michilak plans and the frame reprsents a significant portion of the weight.  

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14 minutes ago, TBW said:

I wonder if the Bolger boat would have significantly more framing than a C&C 35.  I havent built a Bolger boat, but I built a nesting PDRacer partially to Michilak plans and the frame reprsents a significant portion of the weight.  

Bolger wrote the following about the construction: "it ought to be stiff enough with very little framing beyond what will arise naturally out of the joinerwork and bulkheads."

This sort of opinion is often included in descriptions of strip-planked boats. In this construction, each piece of planking is rigidly glued to its neighbors. This is very different from the formerly common carvelle construction where planks are not fastened together between the frames.

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10 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Note to self - if I want to trailer a 35 foot boat around, remove keel from boat, do not build a wooden boat.

 

Bob Perry designed a boat ~40' to fit in a container for shipping to exotic locations.

Having been a participant in port operations, I'm not so sure about counting on longshoremen to launch my boat for me, but that sounded like a practical idea. Other than that, I'm willing to go smaller with trailerables.

FB- Doug

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Long term parking. For my two ten week summer cruises I launched at yacht clubs who also allowed me to park the car and trailer for a reasonable fee. 

I could raise the mast on my 22 ft Jaguar Catalina by just walking forward in the cockpit then cabin roof with it hinged at the base. I usually got a couple of bystanders to hold side ropes but they were never needed to save the situation. 

 

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46 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Note to self - if I want to trailer a 35 foot boat around, remove keel from boat, do not build a wooden boat.

 

Why not build it out of Unobtainium?

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Hi All Strange but I seem to be drawing the same response here as I did on an Australian based Trailer Sailer forum. 

Most people either jump in talking about not be willing to tow something around 5,000-7,500lbs (2.5-3.5 ton ) and posting up boats that I call camper sailers rather than trailable cruisers or alternatively it’s people trying to say you need much larger yachts again that are barely trailable even under ideal conditions due to way over normal towing widths and weights and even those needing crane for launching or mast stepping. 

I don’t consider my 4x4 VW Touareg an uncomfortable every day driver with its very efficient 3 litre turbo diesel ( whist not as clean as VW tried to trick us into believing it is actually pretty clean) and use it for my work which involves lots of driving in twisty mountainous roads and a fair bit with myself and two passengers in the car. 

With huge reserves of power for Hill climbing , sophisticated air suspension for handling and pot hole impact suppression and a big fuel tank it is great as a road car, whilst not an inner city shopping trolley it is not a truck like the F150-250 and similar. 

It tows my over 3 ton on trailer Imexus up a steep twisty mountain road without hesitation and with power in reserve. 

The smaller lighter trailer sailers may either be much less effort to tow or handle and many may be much faster around the cans racers but getting a partner to stay onboard for extended periods constantly folded in half, with no privacy and no luxuries like a good bed, being able to stand inside during rainy/stormy periods and enough room to entertain another couple comfortably ( after all many want a break from just talking to you :) ) can be pretty tough.

Alternatively owning something on a trailer any bigger and more difficult to rig and launch than around 25-28 foot TS’s that are also built narrow enough to tow and park without extra restrictions will generally end up seeing it hardly ever moved. Big arachnid like fold out trimarans as another aternative sail great once you get them on the water but have huge other compromises to comfortable trailering and cruising use. 

Modern launching and rigging systems can make the process of trailering and rigging on the larger (normal!) TS’s much less challenging than in the past and older boats can just copy some of the clever systems like fitted to my Imexus and retro fit these to older much cheaper large TS’s like RL28’s and the like. 

I just think not many people have seriously considered using a large trailable TS properly kitted out as an alternative to small keel boat cruisers. 

There are many advantages to this approach for those who like variety in their cruising destinations and enjoy occassionally gunkholing up rivers and  shallow bays and also sailing in lakes and dams. 

As an alternative to caravans or motorhomes they are much more engaging, exciting and challenging whilst offering the possibility of having a spendid lunch/dinner on your on water recreation vehicle after a lovely sail, swim or catching dinner. :) 

Regards Graeme 

 

 

 

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Hi All I have just read the excellent piece about mast raising highlighted above and copied again here. 

https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/the-perfect-solo-mast-raising-system-for-small-sailboats

Further to this process I believe the inbuilt Imexus system is a further step forward again. 

The Imexus has two further innovations over the system highlighted above. They are intergrated together and remain permenantly attached and in place for immediate use at all times. 

The yacht has two stainless poles attached with pivots at stauntion bases either side of the yacht and joined in the middle AFrame style by a multi turning block fabricated stainless unit which has a matching unit again permenantly mounted to the foredeck as the forestay mount. These units interlock when the mast is fully erected and can have an extra security pin then put through to lock them together if more extended sailing distances are expected or heavy weather anticipated. 

The stainless poles are formed to remain in place at all times tucked down close to the deck and stauntion poles and even bent to clear mooring cleats and are almost unnoticeable amongst the pulpit stainless steel piping. 

The multi purchase rope raising line is then lead back through a turning block and one way jammer to one of the sheet winches on the cabin top. 

Lowering the mast for bridges once erected is as simple as releasing the jammer, giving the backstay tensioner or mainsheet if fitted a tweak to get the system moving then lowering the mast using the multi purchase rope system and friction on the sheet winch. It drops onto a roller mounted permenantly on my targa bar or even lower if very occassionally required by folding the targa bar forward and installing the factory mast prop which plugs into the centre console used for the wheel and cockpit table. 

To put it back up you just use the sheet winch which my very slight 15 yo daughter can do due to the angles and purchase system. 

The roller furler remains in place , the mast lowering can be safety stopped at any height for clearing something catching or only partial lowering to clear higher power lines or bridges without also having to deal with the mainsail. 

Not only does the aframe style of the head unit give side to side stability but two additional baby stays attached to the chain plates and mast also are exactly positioned to remain perfectly tensioned throughout the entire process. 

This means that inconsiderate bastard who flys by under power while you are part mast down traversing a bridge can be confidently given the bird as you are not clinging to the mast which without these extra support systems is trying to throw itself overboard. 

More detailed photos and description can be provided by private message if someone would like them. 

Regards Graeme 

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44 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi All I have just read the excellent piece about mast raising highlighted above and copied again here. 

https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/the-perfect-solo-mast-raising-system-for-small-sailboats

Further to this process I believe the inbuilt Imexus system is a further step forward again. 

The Imexus has two further innovations over the system highlighted above. They are intergrated together and remain permenantly attached and in place for immediate use at all times. 

The yacht has two stainless poles attached with pivots at stauntion bases either side of the yacht and joined in the middle AFrame style by a multi turning block fabricated stainless unit which has a matching unit again permenantly mounted to the foredeck as the forestay mount. These units interlock when the mast is fully erected and can have an extra security pin then put through to lock them together if more extended sailing distances are expected or heavy weather anticipated. 

The stainless poles are formed to remain in place at all times tucked down close to the deck and stauntion poles and even bent to clear mooring cleats and are almost unnoticeable amongst the pulpit stainless steel piping. 

The multi purchase rope raising line is then lead back through a turning block and one way jammer to one of the sheet winches on the cabin top. 

Lowering the mast for bridges once erected is as simple as releasing the jammer, giving the backstay tensioner or mainsheet if fitted a tweak to get the system moving then lowering the mast using the multi purchase rope system and friction on the sheet winch. It drops onto a roller mounted permenantly on my targa bar or even lower if very occassionally required by folding the targa bar forward and installing the factory mast prop which plugs into the centre console used for the wheel and cockpit table. 

To put it back up you just use the sheet winch which my very slight 15 yo daughter can do due to the angles and purchase system. 

The roller furler remains in place , the mast lowering can be safety stopped at any height for clearing something catching or only partial lowering to clear higher power lines or bridges without also having to deal with the mainsail. 

Not only does the aframe style of the head unit give side to side stability but two additional baby stays attached to the chain plates and mast also are exactly positioned to remain perfectly tensioned throughout the entire process. 

This means that inconsiderate bastard who flys by under power while you are part mast down traversing a bridge can be confidently given the bird as you are not clinging to the mast which without these extra support systems is trying to throw itself overboard. 

More detailed photos and description can be provided by private message if someone would like them. 

Regards Graeme 

tendings towards the HWSNBN'd approach of "mine is better"

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

Hi All I have just read the excellent piece about mast raising highlighted above and copied again here. 

https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/the-perfect-solo-mast-raising-system-for-small-sailboats

Further to this process I believe the inbuilt Imexus system is a further step forward again. 

The Imexus has two further innovations over the system highlighted above. They are intergrated together and remain permenantly attached and in place for immediate use at all times. 

The yacht has two stainless poles attached with pivots at stauntion bases either side of the yacht and joined in the middle AFrame style by a multi turning block fabricated stainless unit which has a matching unit again permenantly mounted to the foredeck as the forestay mount. These units interlock when the mast is fully erected and can have an extra security pin then put through to lock them together if more extended sailing distances are expected or heavy weather anticipated. 

The stainless poles are formed to remain in place at all times tucked down close to the deck and stauntion poles and even bent to clear mooring cleats and are almost unnoticeable amongst the pulpit stainless steel piping. 

The multi purchase rope raising line is then lead back through a turning block and one way jammer to one of the sheet winches on the cabin top. 

Lowering the mast for bridges once erected is as simple as releasing the jammer, giving the backstay tensioner or mainsheet if fitted a tweak to get the system moving then lowering the mast using the multi purchase rope system and friction on the sheet winch. It drops onto a roller mounted permenantly on my targa bar or even lower if very occassionally required by folding the targa bar forward and installing the factory mast prop which plugs into the centre console used for the wheel and cockpit table. 

To put it back up you just use the sheet winch which my very slight 15 yo daughter can do due to the angles and purchase system. 

The roller furler remains in place , the mast lowering can be safety stopped at any height for clearing something catching or only partial lowering to clear higher power lines or bridges without also having to deal with the mainsail. 

Not only does the aframe style of the head unit give side to side stability but two additional baby stays attached to the chain plates and mast also are exactly positioned to remain perfectly tensioned throughout the entire process. 

This means that inconsiderate bastard who flys by under power while you are part mast down traversing a bridge can be confidently given the bird as you are not clinging to the mast which without these extra support systems is trying to throw itself overboard. 

More detailed photos and description can be provided by private message if someone would like them. 

Regards Graeme 

I can attest with a heavy mast (for a 'small' trailer sailor oday 23-2), that raising and lowering it solo requires the balancing act you mention. On my list is to build a solid a frame to hold the mast on the centerline while raising and lowering.  I have considered doing a boat trailer/camping trip up the PNW with my boat though (while dreaming about standing headroom I'm sure).

I can kinda see the allure of having a big motor on a sailboat, especially for day sailing. But...maybe it's like being gay - you don't know if you'll like it until you try it.  :lol: Perhaps some sailors are like me too - in that the dream of a perfect sailing day/voyage/condition is as much  of the inspiration as the oft shitty reality of dead flapping sails, rain drenched clothing, and seasick passages. A full hybrid power sailboat speaks to the reality more than that sailing dream. Still tho, 1/10th of your boats horsepower I think would to 95-98% of it all for me.

We'd all be lying if we didn't include motoring faster than our fellow sailors motoring in the ego boosting department. You've just literally 10X'd that and admitted it openly.

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12 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

I loved our F-27 and they're all pretty well depreciated now. Find a decent one and you can play for a few years and sell it for about what you paid. Except for replacing what wears out, it's darn close to free boating and they're good fun. Too spartan for my wife, unfortunately.

The F-27 sure do seem to be a deal now! Living in the NorthWet though I'm leaning towards the F31 with the standing headroom for those inevitable wet days. Just curious but what made you decide to move on from the boat?

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Hi Raz'r

I didn't mean the mast raising piece to interpreted as mine better than yours but do want to assist people who have found the mast stepping challenge one of the biggest put off's to larger trailable yachts. I am now separately communicating and sending photos to several people wishing to replicate the system on the Imexus which was entirely the yacht designers solution and nothing to do with me.

My original home waters in Perth Western Australia had 7.5 meter high bridges immediately followed with a transit through a busy shipping port as the main access to one of the main cruising destinations Rottnest Island.  This led to a huge number of on water mast lowering innovations on even large keel boats being developed.

Rottnest was about 12 Nautical miles offshore and usually most had 2 to 8 Nautical miles of river passage before clearing the Fremantle heads.

Regards Graeme

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Hi Bay Cloud

I agree entirely and do the the same rarely pushing the hammer down. All usual trailer sailer tasks can be adequately handled by the usual say 9.9 long shaft 4 stroke on larger Trailer Sailers and the enormous 180 hp inboard which was fitted to my yacht by the prior owner is at times a bit of an embarrassment. I does open up a whole lot of alternative uses including reaching more distant or difficult to access cruising grounds which otherwise are at the limits for the more usual TS's. 

There are times however when I admit it brings a smile and the 150amp hour alternator gives a surplus of electrical power on tap.

Still this thread was around using larger trailer sailers as alternative cruising platforms and most of these are powered by the usual modest outboards which are perfectly adequate for all the tasks most would want to perform.

Re other comments as a rather older divorcee with a late and very unplanned but now ballsy teenage daughter I am hoping to find a new first mate (or perhaps admiral) amongst the incredibly small number  of sailing interested ladies in or around their 50's but understand I may have to wait until my teenage daughter flies the coop as two women in your life brings lots of complications. Hope its not then too late. :)

Regards Graeme

 

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Aaargghh! I am relaying this for everyone's information about how we are all being internet monitored by bots. The moment I have mentioned on this site the possibly of seeking a partner in future to share my sailing dream I have been inundated with dating site ads and introduction offers. This happened within moments and there is no other explanation than auto post monitoring and automated advertising! Graeme

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On 2/12/2019 at 11:14 AM, SemiSalt said:

A big factor in trailer sailing is raising the mast. The crew can step the mast of a Capri 22 if there are a couple of them and they are young and strong. Anything much larger, and you are starting to think some specialized gear is in order. Or, you put the mast in a tabernacle.

Phil Bolger designed a fleet of boats that could be trailer-sailers. One that I like the look of is the Long Micro.  This picture shows a nice one. I'm not sure the trailer arrangement is the best, but you can clearly see how the unstayed mast is pivoted in a tabernacle.  The boat has a long shoal keel so the interior is not obstructed by a CB trunk.

 

2019-02-12_1210.png

That was my Bolger Long Micro on launch day, in 2007. 

1. The trailer mounting scheme has undergone one revision. The yard did not like the hodge-podge mounting frame which started life as a simple strong back during construction and then morphed into the trailer mounting monstrosity pictured above. The version I have used from the past 11 years uses six stanchions (wooden bases with metal, threaded lally-column centers, so I can adjust the height). The trailer and wood/metal stanchions have survived more than 22,000 miles because my annual pilgrimage takes me from Texas to the UP in Canada each summer. I have never had an issue with the new iteration.  I get looks because using a pipe trailer to transport a boat looks red-necky. If it's stupid, and it works, it isn't stupid.

2. I cannot abide single axle trailers. For short distances they are fine. But I see too many stretches of road where a tire blowout would put you in dire straits. Just my pet peeve. 

3. I like a tabernacle main, as long as you can live with the demerits. My boat uses a big, fat, unstayed main. The mast is 30 feet tall (on a 20 foot boat).  It bends a lot. It is heavy. Nothing about my boat indicates it points like a tourist. It does not. I don't make a habit of dropping the main, but it's not difficult. I was in the North Channel (of CA) in June, 2017. When I got to Little Current, the swing bridge (in Little Current) got stuck in the "boats shall not pass" position. Unfortunately, Little Current divides the North Channel almost in half. It's a pinch point and there's no way for a boat to sneak around. You go under the bridge or you go around. To detour around the bridge requires going about 100 nm's east, dropping south a titch, then sailing 150 nm's (east) along the exposed, south shore of Manitoulin, then about 40 nm's north, and then 15 nm's back east. If you can drop your mast (and mizzen) in a few minutes your vacation is a lot more fun. Fortunately for the big boats, the bridge was repaired with an application of Tim Horton's coffee grounds and bear claw glaze, and was back working in a few days. 

Snubs

 

 

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2 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi All I have just read the excellent piece about mast raising highlighted above and copied again here. 

https://www.tropicalboating.com/2010/04/the-perfect-solo-mast-raising-system-for-small-sailboats

 

Regards Graeme 

My R-22 has a more refined version of the Mac system you linked.  The mast, boom, in mast furling main and roller rib are all raised as one unit.  The lower forward shrouds are  extended by chains, the lower aft shrouds are hooked to the winch and pole, still mounted in my photo above.   It works in a crosswind on a moderate hill.  You can stop half way up, take a piss break, untangle a shroud, than finish at your leisure.   The negative is the time spent threading ring dings to remove or attach the lower stays. I've considered safety pins  for the lowers when I'm vacationing somewhere.   The rig has sufficient theoretical redundancy to survive the loss of any single cable, allowing a precious opportunity to crash tack and lash.    I've always wimped out and secured the lower shrouds properly, just in case I might need them.   One person of below average strength can rig the boat, but not quickly.  The pop top also uses the mast as a forward slide, so that has to be disconnected and reconnected if the mast is dropped.   It would suck to have to drop the mast while bobbing around waiting to pass under a low bridge, and lose rings in the water when Tom goes by creating his large wake.  :(   Fortunately most areas I've driven to have commercial traffic and bascule bridges, or exceed my 30 foot bridge height.   Waiting in line with the keel boats is faster then dropping the mast.

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

Most people either jump in talking about not be willing to tow something around 5,000-7,500lbs (2.5-3.5 ton ) and posting up boats that I call camper sailers rather than trailable cruisers or alternatively it’s people trying to say you need much larger yachts again that are barely trailable even under ideal conditions due to way over normal towing widths and weights and even those needing crane for launching or mast stepping. 

The smaller lighter trailer sailers may either be much less effort to tow or handle and many may be much faster around the cans racers but getting a partner to stay onboard for extended periods constantly folded in half, with no privacy and no luxuries like a good bed, being able to stand inside during rainy/stormy periods and enough room to entertain another couple comfortably ( after all many want a break from just talking to you :) ) can be pretty tough.

 

 

 

 

We did consider some larger trailer sailers when we bought our current boat.  We had 5 boats on our short list and each boat was ruled in our out based on its individual merrits. 

3 of the boats on our short list were larger trailer sailers, specifically a Bayfield 25, a Macgregor 26 M and a Tanzer 7.5 Shoal keel.  All had standing headroom and private heads.  Each design also made a significant compromise in terms of either trailerability or sailability or both.  The Macgregor was the only one that truly met are trailerability criteria, but was the furthest from meeting our sailing criteria.  So we simply decided not to make those compromises and went with a smaller boat instead.

My wife and daughter do cruise with me for weeks.  We carry a porta potti for emergencies, but mostly we plan our routes so that we can beach or stop at a dock every few hours for bathroom breaks. Its not that hard to do when you are cruising sheltered waters with lower population densities.  My 3 local rivers; the Ottawa, Rideau, and St Lawrence offer a lot of easy cruising for a small trailerable, which becomes progressively less easy with incremental increases in size due to lost beaching opportunities and bridge height restrictions.

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Hi TBW Have you had a look at the Kimberley's cruising and Whitsunday's videos I posted for reference? I also did a huge amount trips on a very light and small Jarcat 6 bridge deck trailable catamaran which was very effective camper sailer in many locations including some very remote ones. I think my joy using a larger Trailer Sailer for cruising is to find wild and remote locations where the sort of facilities you are talking about just don't exist. I don't think my yacht and many other well fitted trailer sailers designed appropriately would be precluded from any of the areas you have mentioned by their size however. Unless you are talking bridges that even moderate power boats cannot access under or beaches so crowded that size is some issue I think with the exception of the Macgregor it may have been the style of trailable yacht you were looking at. RL28's Court 750's and my more unusual yacht for instance all draw around 1 foot with their swing keels retracted allowing nose on beaching  and drying out completely in high tidal areas and will pass under 10 foot high bridges with their masts down. 

Towing size I understand isn't for everyone as these yachts range from around 5,000 to 7,000lbs on trailer but are all normal legal on road towing width.

Regards Graeme

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Hi Lark Sorry to be such a dummy but what is an R22? Its not a yacht I am familiar with being an Aussie sailer. I googled it but don't think I found the right TS based on other comments you made. Regards Graeme 

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55 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi TBW Have you had a look at the Kimberley's cruising and Whitsunday's videos I posted for reference? I also did a huge amount trips on a very light and small Jarcat 6 bridge deck trailable catamaran which was very effective camper sailer in many locations including some very remote ones. I think my joy using a larger Trailer Sailer for cruising is to find wild and remote locations where the sort of facilities you are talking about just don't exist.

I watched the Kimberleys video, looked like a great spot.  The video I saw had lots of beaches.  You dont really need any special facilities to beach for 20 minutes and take a leak in the bushes, any wilderness beach will do.   Surely people must Sea Kayak the area.  My boat beaches just like a Sea Kayak does, but has a cabin with opening portlights with bug screens, a small galley, a porta potti, a solar system and inverter, a camper top with bug screens, a stove, a heater, sattellite communications via SPOT X, 406 PLB, VHF, gravity water filtration system (freshwater only).   It is an awesome boat for going to remote wilderness areas. 

I do fully acknowledge your boat would certainly be more comfortable for sleeping on and the plumbed head really is a nice feature, more comfortable beds.  We did consider carefully before buying a boat without a fixed head and standing headroom.    There is more than one way to skin a cat though.

 

mulcasterthumb.png

camper top.png

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4 minutes ago, TBW said:

I watched the Kimberleys video, looked like a great spot.  The video I saw had lots of beaches.  You dont really need any special facilities to beach for 20 minutes and take a leak in the bushes, any wilderness beach will do.   Surely people must Sea Kayak the area.  My boat beaches just like a Sea Kayak does, but has a cabin with opening portlights with bug screens, a small galley, a porta potti, a solar system and inverter, a camper top with bug screens, a stove, a heater, sattellite communications via SPOT X, 406 PLB, VHF, gravity water filtration system (freshwater only).   It is an awesome boat for going to remote wilderness areas. 

I do fully acknowledge your boat would certainly be more comfortable for sleeping on and the plumbed head really is a nice feature, more comfortable beds.  We did consider carefully before buying a boat without a fixed head and standing headroom.    There is more than one way to skin a cat though.

 

mulcasterthumb.png

camper top.png

Nice little boat. But why do you have to beach it to pee?

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1 minute ago, Ishmael said:

Nice little boat. But why do you have to beach it to pee?

My wife prefers it.  Not sure why, I don't argue.  She will go on board if beaching isn't practical.

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Hi TBW Nice looking yacht. Not many Sea Kayakers in the Kimberley's I can assure you.

I personally know from my kayaking days one of the few who have sea kayaked the area Terry Bolland. Terry wrote a book about it and has underwater footage taken of a huge shark circling him.  He deliberately turned his kayak over took the photo and rolled it up again. His paddling buddy for part of one trip was turned over still in his Kayak by a 4-5 meter croc which latched onto his stern and started the death rolls they use to drown kangaroos and buffalo's.  He rolled up and broke free and they paddled away.  Huge Crocs, huge sharks, 10 meter tides and a really long way from the nearest civilization. I am talking 100 nautical miles distances. You need to be able to carry weeks of supplies and getting off to toilet just isn't an option in many places due to the lurking hazards. Obviously the guys just showed the highlights and most special locations they visited on a five week trip and not the less attractive spots they may had had to use on occasions. My TS and many of the others I am promoting also pull right up on the beaches like yours and I agree your yacht would be capable of these trips but it might be closer to the edge of its abilities than this video may have indicated.

Regards Graeme

 

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Hi All

BTW I am amazed at all the mainly older designed US based trailer sailers I am now looking at that have some form of skeg or fin keel and well as a swing or drop center board. Whilst based on more traditional designs these obviously make trailering higher and harder and preclude really shallow waters, beaching or drying out in tidal areas without special props or similar. Happy to be educated but it is just an observation and thought why some may not have thought trailer sailing cruising that practical an alternative to power boating. Any comments?

Regards Graeme

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4 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi Lark Sorry to be such a dummy but what is an R22? Its not a yacht I am familiar with being an Aussie sailer. I googled it but don't think I found the right TS based on other comments you made. Regards Graeme 

It’s an older niche design,    Rhodes 22.  The original design had the Phillip Rhodes stamp for the hull but not the cockpit and deckhouse.   The  builder (an engineer himself) wouldn’t let the design die, and kept updating it decade after decade.   It’s found a niche as a couples pocket cruiser, since most designs from the American golden era of sailing were marketed by the number of berths, at the expense of storage and usable space.    It has furniture instead of a liner, making repairs easier.   I also wanted to avoid an iron swing keel or structural wood, for maintenance reasons,   Newer ones, including factory refits like mine, come with solar, LED lights, etc. The marine head has a door that expands when in use so I can sit and have legroom comparable to an economy airplane seat.   A strategic hatch let’s a guy stand.    There is a decent galley with icebox but the stove isn’t gimbled.    The fresh water tank holds 20 gallons.   A table can be used in the cabin or cockpit, or placed along the settee to provide a double bunk if the couple isn’t too fat.   The v berth is suitable for a short adult or gear.   One couple I know spent months living in theirs, from The pacific northwest to the Sea of Cortez, before shipping it to the Mediteranian for a last huzza.   They now live on a keelboat.   They have been too busy sailing to keep their page updated.

It’s other niche is convenient daysailing for one or several, which is how mine gets used the rest of the year.    The big cockpit of course limits its blue water ability.   The captain’s chairs are most appreciated.    I’ll admit the odd flared hull is a trade off.   It is very rigid, narrows the waterline beam to reduce wetted surface and also provides for interior shelves and a roomy 22.   Of course the trade off is a boat heavier and quicker to heel then some.   The stub keel centerboard is mediocre for beaching, but it will sail in 20 inches (51 cm) with the board up or with the board down it needs 4’ (122 cm) of water.   It also shrugs off a grounding unlike a fin or daggerboard.   The keel won’t fall off but a tongue extension is needed for shallow midwestern ramps.   As you noted, it sits higher on a trailer since the stub is over the axle, but the stub holds most of the centerboard so it doesn’t disrupt the interior like many designs.   

Like everything with boats, it’s a trade off.  In my opinion it works well in the things it’s good at, but certainly it isn’t optimized for everybody.   The builder outlasted most of his competitors.  We don’t have many newer or lighter designs available here that check the same boxes.    What I’ve seen of similar sized European designs seem to be faster but more spartan.   These photos are online, I don’t want to post photos with friends’ faces without their permission.   The factory photo shows a boat dangling from the bow and stern U-bolts for bottom paint.  

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