P_Wop

A British view of our beloved leader

Recommended Posts

I rarely post here, for some unfathomable reason, but thought this one was too good to pass up.  As an ex-pat Brit (and US Citizen) I thought this a fair summary of a viewpoint from across the Atlantic.

Someone on Quora asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?" Nate White, an articulate and witty writer from England wrote this magnificent response.

A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich-boy, or a greedy fat-cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are. 

You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of shit. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

'My God… what… have… I… created?'

If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the complete boxed set.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, and by the way Wop - it ain't just the British - other than his clueless trailer trash supporters, the entire world views him that way.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Well I reserve the right not to specifically address any of the Brits opines.

Why not, I may ask?  How many, and with which ones do you find that you cannot agree? 

Rather than offering a generic slur, you might like to comment.  I'd be fascinated.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

Bill D.

You are like your leader.  Eat your children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Well I reserve the right not to specifically address any of the Brits opines. Rather I would just like to point out he hails from a country that preferable to calling the waiter over to complain about a terrible meal, that one didn't order, nor would be fit for one's dog to consume, they would rather eat their meal in silence and pretend it is fine.

Falls right in line with another British custom, that when in the presence of Germans they whisper to one another, "Don't mention the war...…"

any fule kno that

the way to deal with a substandard meal is to not make a scene  and never come back again

better solution all round - the bad places go to the wall - slowly

that aside - very well written lines in the OP

I wonder if hes had lots of witless hate mail

 

Dylan

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

So let me make certain I fully understand your comment...... I post a reply in vague general terms or observations regarding cultural proclivities.... you attack me for that and suggest I eat my young......and I am the bad person?

I think you're conflating 2 responses. Mine and hasher's.  Sort them out in your head, and reply again, to each one separately.  Thanks.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Well I reserve the right not to specifically address any of the Brits opines. Rather I would just like to point out he hails from a country that preferable to calling the waiter over to complain about a terrible meal, that one didn't order, nor would be fit for one's dog to consume, they would rather eat their meal in silence and pretend it is fine.

Falls right in line with another British custom, that when in the presence of Germans they whisper to one another, "Don't mention the war...…"

You really are completely hopeless aren't you?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh absolutely..... which is why the culinary offerings in the UK are so world renown. 

perhaps- but the main thing is that we do not make a fuss and vent at some poor waitress

as for a proud cuisine

let he is without sin....

 

Taco Bell

All you can eat Pizza places

Arby's

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Well I beg to differ that you would be fascinated in any way for starters.

However the Brits I know, and I know a few, find Trump interesting in a political way. They accept that he is a brash New Yorker and in general (from what can discern) seem to better understand why Trump was elected than most Democrats. 

Now a couple of points I wish to lay bare, so we do not have any further misunderstanding. 

1.) The Brits I know tend to be socialists and firmly Labour Party types.

2.) I did not vote for Trump nor the other major party candidate.

3.) While not out of the boundaries of English politeness, I do believe they were/are sincere in that which they have expressed to me regarding The American President.

4.) We all like to think others agree with us and seek out examples of reinforcement to those beliefs irregardless of whether that is a minority opinion or not. 

Fascinated was too strong a word, I admit, for which I apologize. Intrigued is too strong too.  Interested perhaps.

To respond:

1. I am not a Socialist, either British or anywhere else.  I'm a reasonable Conservative, leaning toward the Center

2. I did not vote for Trump either.  But I did vote for Hillary as the prospect of a Trump government was too bad to contemplate.

3. I fully respect the office of the Presidency.  But not the current incumbent.  That's my opinion, to which I believe I have a right.

4. Yes, that is sadly normal.  As a scientist and engineer, however, I am always ready to admit that my idea is wrong when presented with a well-reasoned and better one.  That's perhaps where we differ.

Last, at no time did I mention politics, Democrats, Socialism, or Republicanism.  It was simply a post with a viewpoint on the person.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh absolutely..... which is why to culinary offerings in the UK are so world renown. 

"Culinary offerings in the UK"?

 There are none.

 None what so ever. There may be a meal to be had here, and there, but...... "Culinary offerings"?.... No.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Mrleft8 said:

"Culinary offerings in the UK"?

 There are none.

 None what so ever. There may be a meal to be had here, and there, but...... "Culinary offerings"?.... No.

And there I think you're a bit wrong.  If you've never strayed out of the mundane fare in the King's Cross or Paddington areas of London, and gone on the search for local offerings into the country, you're quite right. 

  • Fresh grilled sea bass on the South Coast
  • A game pie almost anywhere in the winter
  • I could go on....
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, BillDBastard said:

Spent a fair amount of in England this past year. What I found curious was reading a selections of news papers, you could easily redact the players' names, party affiliations and regional references and the issues were pretty much the same as in the US. So I was not surprised in the least that they 'understood' the election of Trump. 

And for the record, Idid not mention politics either, with the exception of qualifying the leanings of the Brits I know.... which I thought was only fair.

Fair enough. 

Britain has its own share of nightmare problems too, as we all know.  No clue how this will pan out, except that it doesn't look too good right now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

How so? Are referencing Brexit?

I do not think it limited to the UK. Seems a large portion of the EU is …. disenfranchised.

Yes, Brexit.  A silly referendum, badly executed and lost, with absolutely no plan for what would happen (either way) has dropped Britain right into the crapper. 

The rest of Europe is looking on in amazement and dismay as well, while the UK politicians are busy re-arranging the deckchairs.

Again, I'm no Europhile, as the central system they've built is essentially untenable, and really must be loosened.  IMHO, better to influence that while you're still in it.

But the Brexit thing is a serious mess, and it's running out of time.  As a friend says, how do you un-scramble an egg?  Especially after you've eaten it.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Sorry if I do not adopt some party line you find acceptable. Just never wanted to be a member, although I understand that is most important to some.

Tell me all about the party line I subscribe to.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Alright, enough. I must draw a line at Arby's!!!!!

"Poor waitress"????? That is rich. 50% of the service issues in English dining is a direct result of the waitstaff not giving a toss. I blame the lack of tipping frankly.

I'm in London right now. Other than a bit of jetlag, I had a GREAT meal last night, service was awesome, food was top notch. And your tipping "knowledge"? Idiot, service fees were included in the bill.

I'm guessing Mr Bastard last ate a "british" meal at a local Fish&Chips chain in dumbfuckistan. I doubt Mr Bastard even has a passport. And is proud of that fact. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, BillDBastard said:

Spent a fair amount of in England this past year. What I found curious was reading a selections of news papers, you could easily redact the players' names, party affiliations and regional references and the issues were pretty much the same as in the US. So I was not surprised in the least that they 'understood' the election of Trump. 

And for the record, Idid not mention politics either, with the exception of qualifying the leanings of the Brits I know.... which I thought was only fair.

You clearly lie.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

perhaps- but the main thing is that we do not make a fuss and vent at some poor waitress

as for a proud cuisine

let he is without sin....

 

Taco Bell

All you can eat Pizza places

Arby's

You skipped MacDonalds - or was that a given?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Meanwhile, in Italy...

god_emperor_trump.jpg

That's a great float.  Made by an artist who has also mocked Putin, it was called "Emperor Trump" or "Master-Drone Trump", has blue twitter birds on the handle, and a statement on the blade that a play on the Italian way of saying "fuck you".  Some initial reports claim it mean "your duty", but those were wrong translations.  It actually literally means "Your Taxes"..... but can be construed as a play on words.  It was a take-off from a character in Warhammer 40k, which happens to be a table top game centered around 2 religions, one which subscribes to blind loyalty above all and the other which is totally insane that are endless war with each other.  Meant to illustrate Trump's facism, insanity, and stupid all rolled up into one.

I'm glad you understand how the rest of the world views your messiah.  So much great meaning in that float, and so many right wing outlets with no sense of irony mistakenly taking it for a compliment.

That WAS your point in posting it, right?

By the way, Warhammer 40K is a fun game and some of their books, notably the Space Wolves series are pretty "ok".

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

Yes, Brexit.  A silly referendum, badly executed and lost, with absolutely no plan for what would happen (either way) has dropped Britain right into the crapper. 

The rest of Europe is looking on in amazement and dismay as well, while the UK politicians are busy re-arranging the deckchairs.

Again, I'm no Europhile, as the central system they've built is essentially untenable, and really must be loosened.  IMHO, better to influence that while you're still in it.

But the Brexit thing is a serious mess, and it's running out of time.  As a friend says, how do you un-scramble an egg?  Especially after you've eaten it.

You've fallen for the whataboutism of the trolls. Getting back to Nate's treatise, it was hard for me to pick my favorite line:

Jabba the Hut of Privilege?

Shakespeare of shit?

Makes Nixon look trustworthy?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Raz'r said:

Getting back to Nate's treatise, it was hard for me to pick my favorite line:

Jabba the Hut of Privilege?

Shakespeare of shit?

Makes Nixon look trustworthy?

Yes, I liked those three.  Jabba the Hut of Privilege especially!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

That WAS your point in posting it, right?

Remember the purple font. :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, dylan winter said:

perhaps- but the main thing is that we do not make a fuss and vent at some poor waitress

as for a proud cuisine

let he is without sin....

 

Taco Bell

All you can eat Pizza places

Arby's

What have you got against a large Bacon Beef and Cheddar???? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

44 minutes ago, P_Wop said:

And there I think you're a bit wrong.  If you've never strayed out of the mundane fare in the King's Cross or Paddington areas of London, and gone on the search for local offerings into the country, you're quite right. 

  • Fresh grilled sea bass on the South Coast
  • A game pie almost anywhere in the winter
  • I could go on....

There were a few things I usually enjoyed, jacketed potatoes, meat pies, and the curries.  Fish and chips from a small shop or a street vendor served in newspaper was usually decent.  Most places that served steak misinterpret shoe soles for medium rare.  Most everything aside from stews in a pub was dry and bland.  Hobgoblin pulled from a cask was usually a welcome mitigation. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I'm in London right now. Other than a bit of jetlag, I had a GREAT meal last night, service was awesome, food was top notch. And your tipping "knowledge"? Idiot, service fees were included in the bill.

I'm guessing Mr Bastard last ate a "british" meal at a local Fish&Chips chain in dumbfuckistan. I doubt Mr Bastard even has a passport. And is proud of that fact. 

Where are ya staying?  If you've got time - go check out Marylebone (sp??) Farmer's market.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That was some typically droll British writing. I had to track down the original:

https://qr.ae/TUy571

I liked his description of a troll, someone who is never funny and never laughs. That's Shitstain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

I'm in London right now. Other than a bit of jetlag, I had a GREAT meal last night, service was awesome, food was top notch. And your tipping "knowledge"? Idiot, service fees were included in the bill.

I'm guessing Mr Bastard last ate a "british" meal at a local Fish&Chips chain in dumbfuckistan.

I doubt Mr Bastard even has a passport. And is proud of that fact. 

 

I work at a Jet Engine parts factory with many Mechanics and Electronics Techs who are union members and they proudly wear their red t-shirts with union slogans on Fridays here.  You would think that Union Members would skew Dem, but not here.  Many, if not most are gun loving, Dem hating Trumptards, and when I mention vacationing in Europe, many of them say they would never do that, because foreigners don't like us, and there is crime everywhere.  In my experience, all but a few French Policemen were genuinely friendly and interested in learning about the US and its' people.  These co-workers  invariably disbelieve me, but there you have it, many people in this Country are ignorant, Nationalists who have far higher opinions of themselves and their Countrymen, than anyone else in the world.  SAD.....

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

if you can't get a good to great meal in london - and a fair few other bits of the UK - in 2018 you are a fucking moron. But Bill being a fucking moron is well known REPRESENTED EVERYWHERE here.

 

FIFY M8!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

 

I work at a Jet Engine parts factory with many Mechanics and Electronics Techs who are union members and they proudly wear their red t-shirts with union slogans on Fridays here.  You would think that Union Members would skew Dem, but not here.  Many, if not most are gun loving, Dem hating Trumptards, and when I mention vacationing in Europe, many of them say they would never do that, because foreigners don't like us, and there is crime everywhere.  In my experience, all but a few French Policemen were genuinely friendly and interested in learning about the US and its' people.  These co-workers  invariably disbelieve me, but there you have it, many people in this Country are ignorant, Nationalists who have far higher opinions of themselves and their Countrymen, than anyone else in the world.  SAD.....

I drove 3 generations of family from Piza to Paris. spending time across the countrysides.

lovely time, great people.

traffic in Paris in a maxi-minivan? not for the faint of heart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

I work at a Jet Engine parts factory with many Mechanics and Electronics Techs who are union members and they proudly wear their red t-shirts with union slogans on Fridays here.  You would think that Union Members would skew Dem, but not here.  Many, if not most are gun loving, Dem hating Trumptards, and when I mention vacationing in Europe, many of them say they would never do that, because foreigners don't like us, and there is crime everywhere.  In my experience, all but a few French Policemen were genuinely friendly and interested in learning about the US and its' people.  These co-workers  invariably disbelieve me, but there you have it, many people in this Country are ignorant, Nationalists who have far higher opinions of themselves and their Countrymen, than anyone else in the world.  SAD.....

That's exactly what got Trump elected.

Smug Ignorance and xenophobia.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

That's exactly what got Trump elected.

Smug Ignorance and xenophobia.

 

Thanks! That's the exact words I was looking for, but couldn't quite come up with them!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

Thanks! That's the exact words I was looking for, but couldn't quite come up with them!

Glad I could help. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

What have you got against a large Bacon Beef and Cheddar???? 

 

Its not cheddar its  reprocessed poo and the beef is full of filler and is actually made into a slurry of goo that formed into roasts. That's all other than that is is fine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

Its not cheddar its  reprocessed poo and the beef is full of filler and is actually made into a slurry of goo that formed into roasts. That's all other than that is is fine. 

So, you like Spam and scrapple too?  Cool!   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

So, you like Spam and scrapple too?  Cool!   

Oh yes Spam with melted Velveeta and great huge gobs of ketchup on top! Washed down with a Mountain Dew and a side of Fritos 

I am starting to make myself ill.... will stop now. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just looked up scrapple we may have hit a new low! Hog offal boiled with cornmeal. Jesus lord love a duck in sandpit with a feather in his cap that's fucking horrifying.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, HuronBouy said:

Just looked up scrapple we may have hit a new low! Hog offal boiled with cornmeal. Jesus lord love a duck in sandpit with a feather in his cap that's fucking horrifying.

But it's SOOOOOO  good!   With fried potato slices on a biscuit w/coffee melted cheese?   Brudda - that's eastern shore ecstacy.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

I will take your word for it, but not go "there",

Try haggis one day.  It's an acquired taste, but not mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tried in the UK it was OK,  tried in Canada it made me gag, literally and everyone else who tried including guys that like offal. 

So that is enough for me. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

Tried in the UK it was OK,  tried in Canada it made me gag, literally and everyone else who tried including guys that like offal. 

So that is enough for me. 

 

Was in a Vancouver pub once, by pure chance it was Robert Burns birthday and they brought out a haggis for all to taste.  When they cut it open, about a third of the patrons just headed for the door.  Truly a tRumpian fart.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

Tried in the UK it was OK,  tried in Canada it made me gag, literally and everyone else who tried including guys that like offal. 

So that is enough for me. 

1st and only time I ever ate it was in Baghdad - a british soldier was grilling some up outside the CLU on New Year's eve.  I like hog maw ( sausage, potatoes and sauerkraut cooked in a pig's belly) but this stuff?  it provoked a gag reflex... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh absolutely..... which is why the culinary offerings in the UK are so world renown. 

This...from an American? 

English food...even of the Pub variety..even the travelers hotel variety...is edible...it's actually improved quite a lot since I was a child, sometimes even delicious.

I've never met anyone traveling in the usa who's ever thought fondly of the food.

(I believe canned cream whip on breakfast bacon is a thing?) 

and yes..of course there are exceptions if you can afford it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, HuronBouy said:

Just looked up scrapple we may have hit a new low! Hog offal boiled with cornmeal. Jesus lord love a duck in sandpit with a feather in his cap that's fucking horrifying.

The part that I liked was that it's made from the scrap that isn't fit for hot dogs & SPAM.

Yummy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shortforbob said:

This...from an American? 

English food...even of the Pub variety..even the travelers hotel variety...is edible...it's actually improved quite a lot since I was a child, sometimes even delicious.

I've never met anyone traveling in the usa who's ever thought fondly of the food.

(I believe canned cream whip on breakfast bacon is a thing?) 

and yes..of course there are exceptions if you can afford it.

Lots of them - some of the best meals I've ever had were in the States. There's an old time Italian restaurant in downtown SF - full of old movie star memorabilia - that was about the best Italian I've ever had.

I can't say the same about Britain - except the peasant food and a classic English breakfast. "Cuisine" there was always poorly prepared and pretentious French. I've heard it's improved a lot over the past couple of decades.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New Orleans and environs......great food

Wisconsin.......not so much

New York City.....great food

Long Island......not so much

Scotland......Great Cullen Skink and best steak I have ever had

Birmingham.......even a a good restaurant, nothing exceptional

I think food quality is a local thing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, SloopJonB said:

Lots of them - some of the best meals I've ever had were in the States. There's an old time Italian restaurant in downtown SF - full of old movie star memorabilia - that was about the best Italian I've ever had.

I can't say the same about Britain - except the peasant food and a classic English breakfast.

American "Main Street" food and road food sucks, unless it is part of a food truck or farmer's market (Like Portland, Mmmmm).  There again, the best stuff is ethnic, whether it is north african, japanese, mexican, vietnamese, korean, turkish or such.  

Good restaurants in select American cities are very good, and expensive.  But typically they are ethnic and run by immigrants.  For true American "high cuisine", I think you have to look for southern creole or african-american cooking.  

The best "indigenous" British food is Indian curry. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Lots of them - some of the best meals I've ever had were in the States. There's an old time Italian restaurant in downtown SF - full of old movie star memorabilia - that was about the best Italian I've ever had.

I can't say the same about Britain - except the peasant food and a classic English breakfast.

depends on what you call peasant food.

Country village pubs..sunday lunch. choice of several roasts and 7 sides of vegies.

Fresh crab in cornwall...even the humble bangers and mash. home made steak and kidney pudding.

Indian generally good.

Fresh seafood "shed" restaurants right on the wharfs.

I admit that the small cities like Salisbury often fall short when it comes to good Italian or greek..but there are always exceptions.

Getting good veggies in the USA  seems to be an issue. Friend of mine (not short of dollars) just came back from 6 weeks in the USA..she said the food was generally disgusting, way too much salt and sugar where no sugar should be..like bread..the only good food they found was in NY. at some smorgasboard salad market.

Everyone knows one or several great places to eat if you are local or a regular visitor. All tourists are subject to the hit and miss rule when you're travelling, but I've never heard any tourist speak well of American food.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Alright, enough. I must draw a line at Arby's!!!!!

"Poor waitress"????? That is rich. 50% of the service issues in English dining is a direct result of the waitstaff not giving a toss. I blame the lack of tipping frankly.

Bravo, a US chain a notch above Olive Garden, had shit service last month.    I was scolded for my low tip, as overly generous compensation to a waitress with no decorum or finesse.   She couldn’t manage to place a water glass on the table gently enough to avoid sloshing.   I just got back from Iceland.  The wait staff were from Poland, Germany, Bosnia, etc.   The were uniformly polite and helpful, in a second language.   It isn’t the tipping.   

As per @P_Wop ‘s original post on British values, I did learn by observation that British holidayers and American trailer trash are remarkably similar.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

This...from an American? 

English food...even of the Pub variety..even the travelers hotel variety...is edible...it's actually improved quite a lot since I was a child, sometimes even delicious.

I've never met anyone traveling in the usa who's ever thought fondly of the food.

(I believe canned cream whip on breakfast bacon is a thing?) 

and yes..of course there are exceptions if you can afford it.

Your review of American “Cuisine” is not wrong.   A touch of tasteless produce covered with cheese like substance to balance gobs of meat garnished with the finest culinary refinement yet devised by man (bacon) would not be an overly harsh simplification,   In recent years there has been a gradual shift.   There has been a realization, even by the working class, that yellow goo is not really cheese.   There is actually a suspicion that caloric density and quantity are not the sole criteria for fine dining,    I am proud to say nearly half the people in my lunchroom have some appreciation for what they eat.    The other half coincidentally include the Trump supporters. 

American women of the boomer era cannot cook beyond frozen food and fried potatoes.   This is also true of most women and some men of my generation (X).   The millennials of both genders seem to already have gained a skill and appreciation beyond their mothers’ meager abilities.   If only they could be taught to describe food in English instead of those pretentious French terms,  there would be hope for them.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

depends on what you call peasant food.

In Britain it's sausage rolls, pasties, meat pies, ploughman's lunch etc.

Literally what the peasants ate 150 years ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Lark said:

American women of the boomer era cannot cook beyond frozen food and fried potatoes. 

Utter and complete bullshit.

I've only run across one chef who can cook better than my wife and one who is her equal.

And I know others almost as good.

The Boomers took cooking from our parents Sunday roast and boiled veg to another whole level.

Julia Child was aimed at the Boomers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Lark said:

As per @P_Wop ‘s original post on British values, I did learn by observation that British holidayers and American trailer trash are remarkably similar.   

:D Best depiction of them is in "Shirley Valentine".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

:D Best depiction of them is in "Shirley Valentine".

how old is that film?

We're talking about what's available in commercial premises not the home cooking of the working class.

50 years ago, my mothers standards were.

Maccaroni cheese (I still cook this as a standard) a curry made of mince, spag bog, some strange concoction of mince and vegitables, fish with packet parsly sauce (smelled like cat pee) yes, egg and chips, really good roast lamb or chicken on Sundays.

The ingredients for better simply were either not available or affordable.

Her cooking improved remarkably on immigration to a country where there was a huge Italian and Asian influence and cheap and varied ingredients,,she even took Chinese cooking classes :D

Quality food ingredients are still really expensive in the UK when you're on a low income or social security...even the supermarkets are class ranked and it will get worse with Brexit :( 

tesco

sainsburys

Waitrose 

Well..that was 15 years ago when I last lived there 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Utter and complete bullshit.

I've only run across one chef who can cook better than my wife and one who is her equal.

And I know others almost as good.

The Boomers took cooking from our parents Sunday roast and boiled veg to another whole level.

Julia Child was aimed at the Boomers.

 I didn’t know you snagged an American woman.   The fact your wife has few equals in the kitchen speaks to her skill, but also the general lack of interest by many of her peers.    My mother was a war baby, and remains far above average in the kitchen,   She was also forced to cook early, since both her parents worked.    Most women younger then her seem limited to a few basics.

I think the post war generation got sold a myth of convenience, and decided it was “old fashioned” to cook a real meal.   Nostalgia commercials on Sirius “when radio was” support my theory,     My experiences suggests few women raised in such an environment can go beyond seasoning salt in the skillet.  As the kitchen ceased to be the woman’s domain, or perhaps because of it, food has gradually been rediscovered.   I learned to cook out of necessity, since I like to eat and like variety.   I taught myself in college, when four guys refused to eat out of a box and I was expected to take my turn.   I got sick and tired of the ex’s three meals, and even if I worked more hours I contributed regular meals during marriage as a survival strategy.   I’m hardly a chef, but continue to cook more often then my GF when we are together.   She knows a few Japanese meals and a couple American basics.    I don’t think my domestic experiences are unique.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

how old is that film?

We're talking about what's available in commercial premises not the home cooking of the working class.

50 years ago, my mothers standards were.

Maccaroni cheese (I still cook this as a standard) a curry made of mince, spag bog, some strange concoction of mince and vegitables, fish with packet parsly sauce (smelled like cat pee) yes, egg and chips, really good roast lamb or chicken on Sundays.

The ingredients for better simply were either not available or affordable.

Her cooking improved remarkably on immigration to a country where there was a huge Italian and Asian influence and cheap and varied ingredients,,she even took Chinese cooking classes :D

Quality food ingredients are still really expensive in the UK when you're on a low income or social security...even the supermarkets are class ranked and it will get worse with Brexit :( 

tesco

sainsburys

Waitrose 

Well..that was 15 years ago when I last lived there 

What does any of that have to do with British tourists or British restaurants?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Lark said:

 I don’t think my domestic experiences are unique.   

They probably aren't but don't equate them with an entire generation.

Otherwise you'll sound just like one of those useless slacker Gen X'rs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, P_Wop said:

And there I think you're a bit wrong.  If you've never strayed out of the mundane fare in the King's Cross or Paddington areas of London, and gone on the search for local offerings into the country, you're quite right. 

  • Fresh grilled sea bass on the South Coast
  • A game pie almost anywhere in the winter
  • I could go on....
  • A curry in Glasgow?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Indian" in Britain is the base take out food - like Pizza or Chinese here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

You skipped MacDonalds - or was that a given?

Observing processions of the morbidly obese in motorised scooters, turkey drumsticks or similar in BOTH hands, have left an indelible impression in my mind about the quality of American food.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, SPORTSCAR said:

Observing processions of the morbidly obese in motorised scooters, turkey drumsticks or similar in BOTH hands, have left an indelible impression in my mind about the quality of American food.

Who remembers this :D

In australia it was a hoot back then..now it's sadly becoming reality.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Who remembers this :D

In australia it was a hoot back then..now it's sadly becoming reality.

 

 

Truth in advertising: KFC = Kids Fattening Centre

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

It's not, really. If the whitebread markets don't carry good veg, try a yuppie market or an asian market. Any decent sized city you can find good veg out of season; in season in many small towns as well.

problem eating out now in the US is the tight labor market has really pressured a bunch of non-ethnic eateries in the US; 5-10 years ago it was an entirely different food scene.

I was told that few places serve vegies with your main, they are ordered separately..often just a side of salad..is this incorrect?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

I was told that few places serve vegies with your main, they are ordered separately..often just a side of salad..is this incorrect?

That’s true of some of the chains. 

Good produce?    Edible is available in suburban stores and small towns.   The idle and those in affluent areas can visit farmers markets for better tasting varieties and fresher options.   Shelf life and shipping sturdiness are more valuable to stores then flavor.  There is also a concept of food deserts in poor areas (esp urban but also rural) where nothing fresh exists.  I’d say it’s rare to find vegetables as flavorful in Ohio as Iceland grows in its greenhouses.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We lived on our boat in Jersey City for 18 months and had three supermarkets within a reasonable distance. The nearest one to the marina was in a poor neighbourhood (Black/Hispanic mix) and was the cheapest but had the worst selection of fruits and vegetables. The one furthest away was in a new condo district had the highest prices and the best selection of healthy food. The one in between was in between. There was an obvious correlation between food choice and obesity. The sad reality is that a healthy diet is not a cheap diet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The French invented that.

They call it A La Carte.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grain is, subsidized by crop insurance , easily transported, capable of long term storage, and efficiently comoditized.  It can be fed to livestock and the meat treated similarly.    Meat, corn chips and macaroni are relatively easy to bulk ship.   

There are two varieties of cherries that can survive a truck ride across country. The blackberries and raspberries found along an Indiana or Ohio trail are fragile enough they turn to mush before  the hike is done.   The apples off my tree turn brown in minutes if damaged.  The blueberries in a Michigan field aren’t much sturdier.  The eggplant and squash at Kroger’s was soft yesterday.   I’ve followed semis full of tomatoes heading to the canary.  They are hard enough to break a windshield if they bounce out.   They can be stacked deep in bins and bounced along US 27.  I think logistitics plays a huge role on price and varieties sold.  Add to that plants are often bred for color and sweetness, not flavor.  

Our vegetables are more expensive then processed foods and even ground homogenized meat because they are perishable and riskier to grow (no crop insurance).   They are cheaper, sturdier and sometimes sweeter but less flavorful then heirloom  or Iceland greenhouse varieties, but have a good shelf life.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with Sloop the boomers have turned uniformly into foodies, me included

My last few nights's suppers 

Pork tenderloin in Dijon. tarragon  cream sauce with spatzle and braised Brussel sprouts

Korean  scallion and straw mushroom pancakes , marinated and broiled chicken drumettes, panko pork with a hot chill sauce and a ginger kirby pickle salad

Saurerbraten (marinated sirloin tip roast), potato pancakes and braised carrots, salad 

Last night Cheese fondue (Vacherin/Gruyere mix no fucking emmenthal) with salad and viande de Grison. French cornichons (very tiny sour cucumbers) and sour picked onions  

No none of you assholes can come to dinner at my place. 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, BillDBastard said:

Oh absolutely..... which is why the culinary offerings in the UK are so world renown. 

When was the last time you were in the UK? And for how long? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, BillDBastard said:
22 hours ago, Mrleft8 said:

"Culinary offerings in the UK"?

 There are none.

 None what so ever. There may be a meal to be had here, and there, but...... "Culinary offerings"?.... No.

My point exactly

You need to venture out a little further next visit, the choice and variety in food is vastly different than the picture you paint. I’ll happily send you some links to decent restaurants. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mad said:

You need to venture out a little further next visit, the choice and variety in food is vastly different than the picture you paint. I’ll happily send you some links to decent restaurants. 

A good Indian restaurant is not hard to find and some are outstanding. I had a brilliant lunch at pub in Cambridge can't remember the name was on the River Cam though. 

And if in Scotland don't forget to have a deep fried Mars Bar  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Lark said:

Grain is, subsidized by crop insurance , easily transported, capable of long term storage, and efficiently comoditized.  It can be fed to livestock and the meat treated similarly.    Meat, corn chips and macaroni are relatively easy to bulk ship.   

There are two varieties of cherries that can survive a truck ride across country. The blackberries and raspberries found along an Indiana or Ohio trail are fragile enough they turn to mush before  the hike is done.   The apples off my tree turn brown in minutes if damaged.  The blueberries in a Michigan field aren’t much sturdier.  The eggplant and squash at Kroger’s was soft yesterday.   I’ve followed semis full of tomatoes heading to the canary.  They are hard enough to break a windshield if they bounce out.   They can be stacked deep in bins and bounced along US 27.  I think logistitics plays a huge role on price and varieties sold.  Add to that plants are often bred for color and sweetness, not flavor.  

Our vegetables are more expensive then processed foods and even ground homogenized meat because they are perishable and riskier to grow (no crop insurance).   They are cheaper, sturdier and sometimes sweeter but less flavorful then heirloom  or Iceland greenhouse varieties, but have a good shelf life.  

I always laugh when people try to rant about the dangers of Genetically Modified Organism (GMO) foods.

By the time Egyptians were bucketing muddy Nile water into their fields, no human had eaten non GMO food for a thousand years. Various nuts are probably the closest thing to natural genetics, and even nut trees have had to adapt to the ways we've changed their environment.

Now, inserting modified genes into food might or might not result in some pretty scary stuff. That's a whole different ball game. We're turning the planet into Trantor (google "ecumenopolis") anyway so maybe it's good to start learning how to do this now before it becomes critical

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

And if in Scotland don't forget to have a deep fried Mars Bar  

Do forget it.

My daughter conned me into biting into one of those things.

Disgusting. I'd rather eat Vegemite.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steam Flyer said:

I always laugh when people try to rant about the dangers of Genetically Modified Organism (GMO) foods.

By the time Egyptians were bucketing muddy Nile water into their fields, no human had eaten non GMO food for a thousand years. Various nuts are probably the closest thing to natural genetics, and even nut trees have had to adapt to the ways we've changed their environment.

Now, inserting modified genes into food might or might not result in some pretty scary stuff. That's a whole different ball game. We're turning the planet into Trantor (google "ecumenopolis") anyway so maybe it's good to start learning how to do this now before it becomes critical

-DSK

Natural selection and selective breeding are not the same thing as GMO.

Frankenfood needs to be closely guarded in the lab for generations before we can be sure of it - the possible consequences are beyond comprehension.

Remember that Thalidomide passed all relevant testing at the time.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

Natural selection and selective breeding are not the same thing as GMO.

Frankenfood needs to be closely guarded in the lab for generations before we can be sure of it - the possible consequences are beyond comprehension.

Remember that Thalidomide passed all relevant testing at the time.

On the first, the process is different but the results are the same. Agriculture has a gone a bit beyond "selective breeding" over the last thousand years but I agree new gene manipulation techniques are a game changer.

As for consequences, look who you're dealing with. What do you genuinely expect to happen? I expect that DNA will take care of itself.... your descendants might have a third ear sticking out of their elbows, or we might have to wait for the next species to learn tool-using (cockroaches? dolphins?) but life will go on.

I don't have kids (that I know of) so I don't care one way or the other..... maybe I should invest in CRiSPR'd foods?

-DSK

[edit to add] the most likely result IMHO is skyrocketing cancer rates, just when we are learning to treat cancer on the cellular level. Which has it's own set of potentially scary issues, but at least the process is vetted pretty carefully

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 2/12/2019 at 7:47 PM, HuronBouy said:

Oh yes Spam with melted Velveeta and great huge gobs of ketchup on top! Washed down with a Mountain Dew and a side of Fritos 

I am starting to make myself ill.... will stop now. 

 

Making me very ill as well. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, Laker said:

New Orleans and environs......great food

Wisconsin.......not so much

New York City.....great food

Long Island......not so much

Scotland......Great Cullen Skink and best steak I have ever had

Birmingham.......even a a good restaurant, nothing exceptional

I think food quality is a local thing.

When in Birmingham, head out for a real curry. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

how old is that film?

We're talking about what's available in commercial premises not the home cooking of the working class.

50 years ago, my mothers standards were.

Maccaroni cheese (I still cook this as a standard) a curry made of mince, spag bog, some strange concoction of mince and vegitables, fish with packet parsly sauce (smelled like cat pee) yes, egg and chips, really good roast lamb or chicken on Sundays.

The ingredients for better simply were either not available or affordable.

Her cooking improved remarkably on immigration to a country where there was a huge Italian and Asian influence and cheap and varied ingredients,,she even took Chinese cooking classes :D

Quality food ingredients are still really expensive in the UK when you're on a low income or social security...even the supermarkets are class ranked and it will get worse with Brexit :( 

tesco

sainsburys

Waitrose 

Well..that was 15 years ago when I last lived there 

Exactly, it was 15 years ago. 

The whole myth about buying decent raw ingredients is bullshit, and always has been. People are generally too lazy and lacking in ideas and recipes for their own food. They will spend more money on shite, pre-prepared or a takeaway that blows the weekly budget. 

Sick of hearing that piss poor excuse years ago. 

Buy a Burger King meal with drink and fries for example can be the equivalent of buying some decent steak and vegetables and cooking it yourself. I worked it out that I could buy fillet steak and veg for the same price. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like Trump largely for reasons having to do with amusement, so I've little compuction with having a little Trumpian cuckle.

Given that, fuck the British Bastard who penned the analysis in the OP. Seriously, Britain critiquing the U.S.A.? Gimme a fuckin' break. Britain has some of the lowest quality of life scores in all of Europe, it's healthcare system might even be worse than the USA's, it's increasingly inundated with neo-Blackshirt Nationalists, and Brexit? Holy Shit, even the redneckiest redneck with a Confederate flag bumper sticker isn't generally stupid enough to want to figgen nuke NAFTA. The British diet is a particularly spectacular disaster. It's so bad in Britain now that the Aussies and Kiwis are trying to identify more with Europe (or gasp) even the USA than with Britain. And Canadians ... it's actually become so bad in Britain that British Nationals are leaving for Canada and Europe at the highest rate in decades.

I mean, I get the bandwagoneering of wanting to jump our Trumpmaster Parade of Fun, but seriously Britain? Maybe fix your own diseased and broken country before turning even a glance to whatever we have going on over here?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Do forget it.

My daughter conned me into biting into one of those things.

Disgusting. I'd rather eat Vegemite.

Vegemite is one of the most perfect foods ever created. A bit of toast with some Veg and butter tastes like a supermodel's nipple.You just can't imagine what that ingredient can do for a person.

And yes, fried candy bars are kinda nasty.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

I always laugh when people try to rant about the dangers of Genetically Modified Organism (GMO) foods.

By the time Egyptians were bucketing muddy Nile water into their fields, no human had eaten non GMO food for a thousand years. Various nuts are probably the closest thing to natural genetics, and even nut trees have had to adapt to the ways we've changed their environment.

Now, inserting modified genes into food might or might not result in some pretty scary stuff. That's a whole different ball game. We're turning the planet into Trantor (google "ecumenopolis") anyway so maybe it's good to start learning how to do this now before it becomes critical

-DSK

There is a real danger. It's real.

Hybridizing plants is not strictly genetic engineering because there are all kinds of natural cellular checks and balances through the cell wall's osmotic gradient that usually prevent the most bizarre genetic mutations, and there is evidence to suggest that healthy cells even develop resistance to genetic mutations.

But bypassing that osmotic gradient of the cellular wall also bypasses those natural checks and balances, and all kinds of fucking weird genetic disasters can result when the DNA is manipulated mechanically, rather than electrically, which is the natural way.

We absolutely do NOT need to learn how to do this, because that learning process might well be the thing that triggers the need! It's like suggesting that we need to start test firing nuclear weapons randomly into the horizon so we can good at it in case an actual nuclear war breaks out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lark said:

Grain is, subsidized by crop insurance , easily transported, capable of long term storage, and efficiently comoditized.  It can be fed to livestock and the meat treated similarly.    Meat, corn chips and macaroni are relatively easy to bulk ship.   

There are two varieties of cherries that can survive a truck ride across country. The blackberries and raspberries found along an Indiana or Ohio trail are fragile enough they turn to mush before  the hike is done.   The apples off my tree turn brown in minutes if damaged.  The blueberries in a Michigan field aren’t much sturdier.  The eggplant and squash at Kroger’s was soft yesterday.   I’ve followed semis full of tomatoes heading to the canary.  They are hard enough to break a windshield if they bounce out.   They can be stacked deep in bins and bounced along US 27.  I think logistitics plays a huge role on price and varieties sold.  Add to that plants are often bred for color and sweetness, not flavor.  

Our vegetables are more expensive then processed foods and even ground homogenized meat because they are perishable and riskier to grow (no crop insurance).   They are cheaper, sturdier and sometimes sweeter but less flavorful then heirloom  or Iceland greenhouse varieties, but have a good shelf life.  

Right, and the new batch of produce has been bred to stay pretty in the nitrogen houses. It used to be just shipping, but now it's warehousing too ... produce is stored in areas with the oxygen removed, and and nitrogen enriched well above the normal 80% or so, to above 97%. They can sit in the nitrogen much much longer before ripening.

And they'll be beautiful. And they will taste like library chalk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Natural selection and selective breeding are not the same thing as GMO.

Frankenfood needs to be closely guarded in the lab for generations before we can be sure of it - the possible consequences are beyond comprehension.

Remember that Thalidomide passed all relevant testing at the time.

Selective breeding is GMO sorry and if it were easy to transfer beef DNA of any kind by eating  meat most of the planet would have horns, provide oodles of milk. 

Putting an insulin gene into a cow or goat is not going to cause you to start making insulin because you eat said cow. 

Plants may be different as rogue species could take over by seeds blowing around but even this is low risk and is controllable. But you are still not going to be transfected by foreign DNA  by eating a carrot. And the chance of Day of Triffids coming true is just plain silly. 

Thalidomide was missed because they only did one species toxicology and it did show up in the rats or mice they used. When they used rabbit and dog the defects were the same as human. That is why two species tox is done now and has been for decades. 

Nice thread drift BTW

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mikewof said:

The British diet is a particularly spectacular disaster.

The Scottish/Indian comedian Danny Bhoi had a great bit about that - well the Scottish diet anyway.

He said the WHO had declared the Scottish diet to be the worst in the world.

Think about that - there are people starving in Somalia who have a better diet than the Scots.