Snore

Screw the NRA, Trump and Marco Rubio

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Today is the one year anniversary of the shooting at Douglas HS in Parkland.  14 kids died going to high school. Both my children (now +/-40) went there. I spent 3 years as a “roadie” for the marching band.  The shooting affected us all.

 

What has changed? 10 states now have “red flag” laws.  But little else has changed.

What is the cost of the NRA’s dominance?

 

  • In 2018 14 kids were killed going to HS in Parkland,FL.  18 members of the US Military died in the Afghanistan war zone.
  • In 2018 1200 kids were killed by gun violence.  That is more than the total people killed by the police (980). 
  • In 2018 387 people died in mass shootings.  The total number of deaths in all war zones in 2018 was 30.

Gun violence kills more people than cops and wars- so why isn’t congress doing anything?

 

If the NRA base is as pro-America as they claim.  Why aren’t they rioting about the PROVEN  Russian influence on the NRA?  

If #Donnie Trump who said he was not beholding to the NRA after the shooting, really isn’t- why has nothing happened?  If all those people who want to stop the senseless loss of American lives in Afghanistan and elsewhere really want to make a difference- why not enact reasonable gun Laws?  Finally, how can #Marco Rubio who lives right down the road in Miami not support reasonable changes?  Grow some stones Marco!

 

okay I feel better now....

 

Now before you go off on me for comments about the military- I support both the military and the missions they are on.  But the comparisons are chilling.  All the numbers shown are based on reputable sources found on the web.  So before you post, please get facts.

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9 minutes ago, Snore said:

I support both the military and the missions they are on.  

Well there's your problem right there. You've made an allowance for violence.

 

 

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Well, people say that nobody changes their mind. I can tell you that I have changed my mind about several issues over the past five or six years, and gun rights / gun violence is one of them.

How to approach the problem? IMHO we need a Constitutional amendment. That's going to be difficult to impossible

-DSK

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1 hour ago, Snore said:

Today is the one year anniversary of the shooting at Douglas HS in Parkland.  14 kids died going to high school. Both my children (now +/-40) went there. I spent 3 years as a “roadie” for the marching band.  The shooting affected us all.

 

What has changed? 10 states now have “red flag” laws.  But little else has changed.

What is the cost of the NRA’s dominance?

 

  • In 2018 14 kids were killed going to HS in Parkland,FL.  18 members of the US Military died in the Afghanistan war zone.
  • In 2018 1200 kids were killed by gun violence.  That is more than the total people killed by the police (980). 
  • In 2018 387 people died in mass shootings.  The total number of deaths in all war zones in 2018 was 30.

Gun violence kills more people than cops and wars- so why isn’t congress doing anything?

 

If the NRA base is as pro-America as they claim.  Why aren’t they rioting about the PROVEN  Russian influence on the NRA?  

If #Donnie Trump who said he was not beholding to the NRA after the shooting, really isn’t- why has nothing happened?  If all those people who want to stop the senseless loss of American lives in Afghanistan and elsewhere really want to make a difference- why not enact reasonable gun Laws?  Finally, how can #Marco Rubio who lives right down the road in Miami not support reasonable changes?  Grow some stones Marco!

 

okay I feel better now....

 

Now before you go off on me for comments about the military- I support both the military and the missions they are on.  But the comparisons are chilling.  All the numbers shown are based on reputable sources found on the web.  So before you post, please get facts.

Money talks. 

I cannot imagine going to school after that. Our biggest concern going to school in South Florida used to be the likelihood of a Friday night hookup after the game, or who’s turn it was to pick up the keg(s). 

Now kids have to deal with the images of a year ago, watching their friends die, and whether they will be next. If there is a hell, blood money must be the currency.

We just had 17 seconds of silence in Ft. Laud Airport, for each of the inconvenient victims. 

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I will repeat something I have said often:  there will be no change until society - as a whole - says "enough".  When there are marches, demonstrations, politcal rallies, etc. all saying that there is too much gun violence, and society as whole chooses to reject gun violence, THEN there will be changes.  

Like smoking used to be cool, then it wasn't cool, and people quit smoking.  Same thing needs to happen.  

Not likely to happen for another generation.  I think the current crop of kids are the hope for change - in 25 years.  

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“Be the change”. If you bitch and moan, nothing will happen.  

 

Be be an activist for change

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1 hour ago, Snore said:

Today is the one year anniversary of the shooting at Douglas HS in Parkland.  14 kids died going to high school. Both my children (now +/-40) went there. I spent 3 years as a “roadie” for the marching band.  The shooting affected us all.

 

What has changed? 10 states now have “red flag” laws.  But little else has changed.

What is the cost of the NRA’s dominance?

 

  • In 2018 14 kids were killed going to HS in Parkland,FL.  18 members of the US Military died in the Afghanistan war zone.
  • In 2018 1200 kids were killed by gun violence.  That is more than the total people killed by the police (980). 
  • In 2018 387 people died in mass shootings.  The total number of deaths in all war zones in 2018 was 30.

Gun violence kills more people than cops and wars- so why isn’t congress doing anything?

 

If the NRA base is as pro-America as they claim.  Why aren’t they rioting about the PROVEN  Russian influence on the NRA?  

If #Donnie Trump who said he was not beholding to the NRA after the shooting, really isn’t- why has nothing happened?  If all those people who want to stop the senseless loss of American lives in Afghanistan and elsewhere really want to make a difference- why not enact reasonable gun Laws?  Finally, how can #Marco Rubio who lives right down the road in Miami not support reasonable changes?  Grow some stones Marco!

 

okay I feel better now....

 

Now before you go off on me for comments about the military- I support both the military and the missions they are on.  But the comparisons are chilling.  All the numbers shown are based on reputable sources found on the web.  So before you post, please get facts.

dogballs

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And so the daily stupid starts.

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11 minutes ago, Snore said:

“Be the change”. If you bitch and moan, nothing will happen.  

 

Be be an activist for change

There won’t be change until billionaires start dying violently. Then it will become a public health issue. 

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1 hour ago, Barnacle Balls said:

People will still die.

The rationale for doing nothing.

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9 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Why?  You'll ban 'high capacity mags'.

People will still die.

So you'll ban AR or AK 'black' rifles.  

People will still die.

So you'll ban all semi auto weapons.

People will still die.

So you'll ban all rifles and revolvers, require full licensing and registration.

People will still die.

So you'll ban knives.

People will still die.

 

Like I said.

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1 hour ago, Barnacle Balls said:

So better do something that doesn't work while taking away the right for good people to protect themselves.

Like sitting in the water, with the sail up, wind is blowing 0kts

But it can work with a new societal paradigm, as mentioned upthread.

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28 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Just say you want to take ALL the guns already so we can get on with it.  This pussyfooting around is just wasting resources on both sides.

just yours.

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Typical reaction in most states is to militarize schools with armed guards and metal detectors at the door. How does this make kids feel? Much like they are in prison from what I can see at the local high school.  

Nothing has been done to start teaching about the problems of mental illness and violence. This is the typical American reaction, bring in guns, put up a wall and this will solve everything. How about trying to change attitudes and teach morals?

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2 hours ago, Snore said:

Today is the one year anniversary of the shooting at Douglas HS in Parkland.  14 kids died going to high school. Both my children (now +/-40) went there. I spent 3 years as a “roadie” for the marching band.  The shooting affected us all.

 

What has changed? 10 states now have “red flag” laws.  But little else has changed.

What is the cost of the NRA’s dominance?

 

  • In 2018 14 kids were killed going to HS in Parkland,FL.  18 members of the US Military died in the Afghanistan war zone.
  • In 2018 1200 kids were killed by gun violence.  That is more than the total people killed by the police (980). 
  • In 2018 387 people died in mass shootings.  The total number of deaths in all war zones in 2018 was 30.

Gun violence kills more people than cops and wars- so why isn’t congress doing anything?

 

If the NRA base is as pro-America as they claim.  Why aren’t they rioting about the PROVEN  Russian influence on the NRA?  

If #Donnie Trump who said he was not beholding to the NRA after the shooting, really isn’t- why has nothing happened?  If all those people who want to stop the senseless loss of American lives in Afghanistan and elsewhere really want to make a difference- why not enact reasonable gun Laws?  Finally, how can #Marco Rubio who lives right down the road in Miami not support reasonable changes?  Grow some stones Marco!

 

okay I feel better now....

 

Now before you go off on me for comments about the military- I support both the military and the missions they are on.  But the comparisons are chilling.  All the numbers shown are based on reputable sources found on the web.  So before you post, please get facts.

Wow good take. I did not expect that from you.

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6 minutes ago, Rum Runner said:

Typical reaction in most states is to militarize schools with armed guards and metal detectors at the door. How does this make kids feel? Much like they are in prison from what I can see at the local high school.  

Nothing has been done to start teaching about the problems of mental illness and violence. This is the typical American reaction, bring in guns, put up a wall and this will solve everything. How about trying to change attitudes and teach morals?

I disagree - our HS is very focused on mental health. I'm not sure what "teaching morals" means. Kids have been kids forever.

The problem is easy access to tools.

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1 hour ago, Barnacle Balls said:

So better do something that doesn't work while taking away the right for good people to protect themselves.

Like sitting in the water, with the sail up, wind is blowing 0kts

 

Oh no, you are right.   It is better to counter argue facts with anecdotal conjecture.

 

Either get off your “transom” and present a solution or remain on the sidelines

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Scott Beigel, 35

Aaron Feis, 37

Chris Hixon, 49

 Nicholas Dworet, 17

Jamie Guttenberg, 14

Luke Hoyer, 15

Alyssa Alhadeff, 14

Martin Duque, 14

Cara Loughran, 14

Gina Montalto, 14

Joaquin Oliver, 17

Alaina Petty, 14

Meadow Pollack, 18

Helena Ramsay, 17

Alex Schachter, 14

Carmen Schentrup, 16

Peter Wang, 15

 

May you Rest In Peace.

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1 hour ago, Barnacle Balls said:

FYI, as a long time NRA benefactor... I say fuck the NRA. They've sold out too many times... the bumpstock thing being the last straw.  The organization exists to pay the salaries of Wayne LaPierre and the rest.

I disagree. It exists to feed his sense of power. He's rich, yes, but does not appear to care that much about money. I mean, hardly anything he owns is gold plated.

-DSK

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Universal healthcare, with support for mental health, and improved public education would be a great start to lower the rate of gun deaths.  Suicides rates would go down, most of these mass murders end in suicide. 

Common sense gun laws, like registration and mental health checks aren't going to solve the underlying problems.  

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37 minutes ago, Sean said:

 

Scott Beigel, 35

Aaron Feis, 37

Chris Hixon, 49

 Nicholas Dworet, 17

Jamie Guttenberg, 14

Luke Hoyer, 15

Alyssa Alhadeff, 14

Martin Duque, 14

Cara Loughran, 14

Gina Montalto, 14

Joaquin Oliver, 17

Alaina Petty, 14

Meadow Pollack, 18

Helena Ramsay, 17

Alex Schachter, 14

Carmen Schentrup, 16

Peter Wang, 15

 

May you Rest In Peace.

Liking that doesn't feel right. Thank you instead.

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1 minute ago, Irish River said:

Universal healthcare, with support for mental health, and improved public education would be a great start to lower the rate of gun deaths.  Suicides rates would go down, most of these mass murders end in suicide. 

Common sense gun laws, like registration and mental health checks aren't going to solve the underlying problems.  

Our High School has immediate intervention when someone is flagged. The students are trained consistently to bring depression symptoms to the administration. I know this as my daughter was flagged by a friend. How much more can they do? Campus lockdown I suppose.

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8 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

You know who's not on that list....

My best friend from college, his wife and two daughters who used an AR15 variant to blow away 3 home invaders several years back.

shitty gun for in-home defense. Just sayin.

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2 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

giphy.gif

Compare to the alternatives buddy. Compare to the alternatives.

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19 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

You know who's not on that list....

My best friend from college, his wife and two daughters who used an AR15 variant to blow away 3 home invaders several years back.

Did they take turns with it?

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2 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Why?  You'll ban 'high capacity mags'.

People will still die.

So you'll ban AR or AK 'black' rifles.  

People will still die.

So you'll ban all semi auto weapons.

People will still die.

So you'll ban all rifles and revolvers, require full licensing and registration.

People will still die.

So you'll ban knives.

People will still die.

 

But, I will bet you anything you like that it would be a lot fewer people.  Want to try it for a couple of decades as a statistical test case? 

So, my solution is simple and based on the constitution.  Confiscate all privately held fire arms.  Allow citizens to purchase firearms after they have joined a state-validated militia and have agreed to all the necessary regulation, training and discipline mandated by congress.  Fully compliant gun ownership...however, I'm pretty sure those congressionally established disciplinary requirements would not include packing an AR-15 in Walmart or an automatic on your hip at the movies.  

 

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41 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Our High School has immediate intervention when someone is flagged. The students are trained consistently to bring depression symptoms to the administration. I know this as my daughter was flagged by a friend. How much more can they do? Campus lockdown I suppose.

There is a new term sadly - Generation Lockdown

http://www.bradycampaign.org/generationlockdown

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15 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

So you want to confiscate the guns and decide who gets them and who doesn't.

Gotcha.

Well regulated militia. Why do you hate the constitution.

 

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15 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

So you want to confiscate the guns and decide who gets them and who doesn't.

Gotcha.

Not me personally.  Nope. 

Just that wannabe gun-buyers would just have to obey the  whole constitution.  

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1 hour ago, Snore said:

 

Oh no, you are right.   It is better to counter argue facts with anecdotal conjecture.

 

Either get off your “transom” and present a solution or remain on the sidelines

There's a third option for him that you overlooked

Shut The Fuck Up.

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55 minutes ago, Barnacle Balls said:

You know who's not on that list....

My best friend from college, his wife and two daughters who used an AR15 variant to blow away 3 home invaders several years back.

Sounds like dogballs bullshit to me.

Got anything to back it up?

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30 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

There's a third option for him that you overlooked

Shut The Fuck Up.

I started to type that, but my “nice gene” kicked in.

 

 

But now that you mention it...

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44 minutes ago, Raz'r said:

Well regulated militia. Why do you hate the constitution.

 

she must be a commie....

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4 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Why?  You'll ban 'high capacity mags'.

People will still die.

So you'll ban AR or AK 'black' rifles.  

People will still die.

So you'll ban all semi auto weapons.

People will still die.

So you'll ban all rifles and revolvers, require full licensing and registration.

People will still die.

So you'll ban knives.

People will still die.

 

Except in civilized countries which have civilized gun laws (pick one, there are many to choose from) the number who die from gun violence is much, much smaller. Time for the US to decide if it wants to be a civilized country or not.

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They put Trump in office and you ask that?

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2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Our High School has immediate intervention when someone is flagged. The students are trained consistently to bring depression symptoms to the administration. I know this as my daughter was flagged by a friend. How much more can they do? Campus lockdown I suppose.

T & P  will help solve the problem.  

 

Seriously though reactionary measures like armed guards, lock downs are just a stop gap. America needs to fix the root causes. mental health, education, health care are the long run solutions

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The answer to all this is so easy:

  1. Look for countries that have fewer gun deaths
  2. Copy their gun laws
  3. Enjoy less daily murder and homicide
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45 minutes ago, Irish River said:

T & P  will help solve the problem.  

 

Seriously though reactionary measures like armed guards, lock downs are just a stop gap. America needs to fix the root causes. mental health, education, health care are the long run solutions

you mean gunz.

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3 hours ago, Irish River said:

Universal healthcare, with support for mental health, and improved public education would be a great start to lower the rate of gun deaths.  Suicides rates would go down, most of these mass murders end in suicide. 

Common sense gun laws, like registration and mental health checks aren't going to solve the underlying problems.  

Perhaps not, but they would likely reduce the overlying symptoms of gun deaths.  And follow the constitution more closely than the Russo-NRA's reading of it.

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1 hour ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Except in civilized countries which have civilized gun laws

North Korea comes to mind. But 99% of controllers are unwilling to admit what their end goal is.

2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Well regulated militia. Why do you hate the constitution.

The Heller ruling has been out for some time now, why are you so unwilling to read it?

3 hours ago, Left Shift said:

So, my solution is simple and based on the constitution.  Confiscate all privately held fire arms.

I must of missed that clause.

4 hours ago, Snore said:

Either get off your “transom” and present a solution or remain on the sidelines

Where "solution" = ban them all. That seems to be the only solution antigun types move towards, since they seem to be unwilling to discuss the years of failure that led up to Parkland..

 

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2 hours ago, Nice! said:

The answer to all this is so easy:

  1. Look for countries that have fewer gun deaths
  2. Copy their gun laws
  3. Enjoy less daily murder and homicide

But....but.... nowhere else is like America.

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8 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, people say that nobody changes their mind. I can tell you that I have changed my mind about several issues over the past five or six years, and gun rights / gun violence is one of them.

How to approach the problem? IMHO we need a Constitutional amendment. That's going to be difficult to impossible

-DSK

Or a dem president could declare a National emergency.

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1 hour ago, bpm57 said:

North Korea comes to mind. But 99% of controllers are unwilling to admit what their end goal is.

The Heller ruling has been out for some time now, why are you so unwilling to read it?

I must of missed that clause.

Where "solution" = ban them all. That seems to be the only solution antigun types move towards, since they seem to be unwilling to discuss the years of failure that led up to Parkland..

 

The clause I was citing was not the confiscate part.  That's just my - intentionally outrageous - way of getting back to a restart on all this gun nonsense.  Clean slate:  The US minus about 300 million unnecessary weapons.

The clause I'm referencing, besides the 2nd Amendment is the one where the constitution defines Congress' authority over militias and additionally gives Congress the duty to establish regulations and discipline over them.  A very 18th Century concern when we didn't have a standing army.  I think there is no doubt that we now have a standing army ready to repel any threats "foreign or domestic". 

This whole "right to bear arms" without full constitutional understanding crap is just that...bullshit.  In my very not humble opinion.  And yes I know that politicized Supreme Court decisions disagree with me.  I suspect and wouldn't be surprised by future evolution in the Court on the subject.

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3 hours ago, Nice! said:

The answer to all this is so easy:

  1. Look for countries that have fewer gun deaths
  2. Copy their gun laws
  3. Enjoy less daily murder and homicide

Might work with health care also.

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3 hours ago, Nice! said:

The answer to all this is so easy:

  1. Look for countries that have fewer gun deaths
  2. Copy their gun laws
  3. Enjoy less daily murder and homicide

Not so easy. For the record, I’m a gun owning righty. I’m totally cool with an amendment that brings us in line with someone like Australia or the UK.  That’s the easy part. 

The scary part is the transition. That’s where things get ugly. I’d have no issue with a buy back or mandatory storage (for hunting weapons), but I’m not a gun   nut nor a criminal. The transition would be ugly. 

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

The transition would be ugly. 

This is the crux of the matter.

There are big-moneyed interests that would be dead set against such a change.

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3 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

This is the crux of the matter.

There are big-moneyed interests that would be dead set against such a change.

I don’t care about them. I’m thinking more along the lines of the guy who owns a 7/11 in a bad neighborhood. Things would get better with time, but it’d be a scary few years when only bad guys and over worked cops had guns. 

I’m with you guys just as soon as you lay out a good plan for the years when only bad guys and nut jobs have guns. Do we just write off an acceptable amount of convenience store robberies as collateral damage?  

Show me a plan for the transition and I’m on board. 

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On 2/4/2019 at 12:05 PM, Sol Rosenberg said:

if I cared to wade into that morass I would


say

9 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Money talks. 

I cannot imagine going to school after that. Our biggest concern going to school in South Florida used to be the likelihood of a Friday night hookup after the game, or who’s turn it was to pick up the keg(s). 

Now kids have to deal with the images of a year ago, watching their friends die, and whether they will be next. If there is a hell, blood money must be the currency.

We just had 17 seconds of silence in Ft. Laud Airport, for each of the inconvenient victims. 

Any thoughts on the usual legislative SOLution, or just more mouthing of the reasons for that response as if you're disconnected from the morass that way?

To the rest of you:

Whine all you want, ye grabbers, but the bans and confiscation programs are going to continue to fail and continue to be controversial. Now make your main point that I'm bad for saying which guns are to be bannned and confiscated.

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13 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I don’t care about them. I’m thinking more along the lines of the guy who owns a 7/11 in a bad neighborhood. Things would get better with time, but it’d be a scary few years when only bad guys and over worked cops had guns. 

"bad guys" will always have them. Why do you think otherwise?

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10 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, people say that nobody changes their mind. I can tell you that I have changed my mind about several issues over the past five or six years, and gun rights / gun violence is one of them.

How to approach the problem? IMHO we need a Constitutional amendment. That's going to be difficult to impossible

-DSK

Why do we need an amendment? Is the second amendment a hindrance to some gun control? Most seems to pass muster, except ridiculous ones like Caetano and the upcoming one in NY ( I expect. )

On 11/24/2017 at 11:25 AM, Steam Flyer said:

As a gun-owning Southerner & veteran & capitalist, I'm not welcome in most libby-rull groups.


I misread that before, so you said. What does it mean? Did you own guns at that time? Do you still find libbyrulls don't accept gun ownership?

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

  Clean slate:  The US minus about 300 million unnecessary weapons.

Funny how "liberals" that inevitably live in a major city are always experts on what the rest of the country "needs".

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

I don’t care about them. I’m thinking more along the lines of the guy who owns a 7/11 in a bad neighborhood. Things would get better with time, but it’d be a scary few years when only bad guys and over worked cops had guns. 

I’m with you guys just as soon as you lay out a good plan for the years when only bad guys and nut jobs have guns. Do we just write off an acceptable amount of convenience store robberies as collateral damage?  

Show me a plan for the transition and I’m on board. 

Perhaps I was too brief. I prefer brevity. 

Yes, things would get better with time. The "transition" is the problem.

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

 I’m totally cool with an amendment that brings us in line with someone like Australia or the UK.  That’s the easy part.

I think you'd be happier with our laws.

The ocean of guns will have to fade away - the whole process MIGHT be finished this century but certainly not within the lifetimes of many, many of the members here.

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1 hour ago, bpm57 said:

Funny how "liberals" that inevitably live in a major city are always experts on what the rest of the country "needs".

Yep, that's us.  Funny how troglodytes who live in the hinterlands think their experience is universal.  

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3 hours ago, Monkey said:

Not so easy. For the record, I’m a gun owning righty. I’m totally cool with an amendment that brings us in line with someone like Australia or the UK.  That’s the easy part. 

The scary part is the transition. That’s where things get ugly. I’d have no issue with a buy back or mandatory storage (for hunting weapons), but I’m not a gun   nut nor a criminal. The transition would be ugly. 

yep, if a few thousand people claiming asylum is an emergency, then tens of thousands dead each year for decades needs a call to bring in the marines.

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16 hours ago, Snore said:

So before you post, please get facts.

Speaking of facts, can you please post your source for those numbers in your OP?  Thanks.  

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
12 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

You know who's not on that list....

My best friend from college, his wife and two daughters who used an AR15 variant to blow away 3 home invaders several years back.

Sounds like dogballs bullshit to me.

Got anything to back it up?

Anyone?

Bueller?

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15 hours ago, bugger said:

I will repeat something I have said often:  there will be no change until society - as a whole - says "enough".  When there are marches, demonstrations, politcal rallies, etc. all saying that there is too much gun violence, and society as whole chooses to reject gun violence, THEN there will be changes.  

Like smoking used to be cool, then it wasn't cool, and people quit smoking.  Same thing needs to happen.  

Not likely to happen for another generation.  I think the current crop of kids are the hope for change - in 25 years.  

FIFY.  I am not aware that any one in society thinks violence, even gun violence is cool.  But the issue is that we glorify violence and particularly gun violence, and our media driven society makes it ultra cool.  

When society says enough to just violence, THEN and only then will we get any movement.  When the hollywood movie star$ who decry gun violence stop making $hoot-em-up movie$, then we will have some change.  

Taking guns away from everyone is not going to make this issue go away.  The issue is that our society, unlike most other western societies, values violence as a means of conflict resolution.  We glorify it every minute of the day in games, TV, movies, music, social media, news, etc.  The only way this is going to change is to change people's mindsets that violence in ANY form is unacceptable.  I have long said that we need to use the MADD approach to the epidemic of violence in our nation.  And that involves:

  1. Naming and Shaming:  AS you said, make it "uncool" for people to pick up a weapon and harm others because they feel they've been wronged somehow.  MAke it uncool for teen gangbangers to shoot down others as a sign of manhood and respect.  Stigmatize and belittle the mentally fucked up school mass shooters rather than make them huge news and give them infamous status.  
  2. Draconian enforcement/zero tolerance of the current gun laws:  If you leave a gun out where a child can get it and they hurt themselves or others - you go to jail.  If you violate the gun laws - you go to jail.  If someone steals your unsecured gun and uses it in a crime - you go to jail.  
  3. Education/awareness campaigns:  Just like with MADD, a central component of reducing violence is simple education and a barrage of counter imagery to the 24/7/365 media violence we see every single minute.  

But the bottom line is we have ample evidence of how effective prohibition works in the country.  We are just wired differently.  If you tell us we can't have something, we want it all that much more.  If MADD had crusaded on banning alcohol and cars as a means to reduce DUI, they would have failed before they even got out of the gate.  But instead of saying Booze is bad, they said "use it responsibly and if you don't you will pay the consequences".  

Even @jocal505 has finally embraced my MADD theory of reducing gun violence.  It took him years to get there, but he finally came around.  Time for the rest of you jump on the team and come on in for the big win.

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15 hours ago, justsomeguy! said:
15 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

People will still die.

The rationale for doing nothing.

It's not a rationale for doing nothing.  It's a rationale for doing something different.  Prohibition DOES NOT WORK.  See my post above.

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14 hours ago, Raz'r said:

The problem is easy access to tools.

Utter Bullshit!  Kids had even easier access to tools back in the 50s, 60s and 70s and we didn't have this problem.  Kids used to take rifles to school to go hunting after the day was over or to targets shoot in the school basement and I never once heard of a teen going out to his pickup and bringing his gun into the school to shoot up his or her classmates.  

We didn't have gunsafes or trigger locks back then and many many many houses in America had guns in dad's closet or in the nightstand and still we didn't have mass shootings.  There were no background checks, waiting periods or bans on high cap mags and still we didn't have mass shootings.  AR-15s and AK-47s with 30 rounds mags were plentiful to buy after the Vietnam war.  And still we didn't have mass shootings in the 70s and 80s.  Certainly no school shootings like we see now.  

Access to toolz is a brazillion times more difficult than it was when I was growing up.  And toolz have not gotten any more deadly.  They have seen very little change in lethality since WWII and certainly almost zero since Vietnam.  

I have said this a 1000x now, but I will continue to be a broken record on this.....  toolz and access to them have not changed.  IN fact it is exponentially MUCH MORE difficult to buy a gun than it was 40 years ago.  What has changed is that society has become more violent, more callous towards their fellow humans, and more numb to violent acts because of ubiquitous media violence.  And we've now embraced a victim mentality where every failure, every slight, every grievance and injustice is someone else's fault and that slight or grievance must be avenged and the perceived responsible party must pay.  We've lost our moral compass as a society and we've lost our sense of nation and community that once held us together and instead we have become nothing more than tribes where everyone outside the tribe is "the other" and ostensibly the enemy.  Removing toolz will do ZERO to address any of those real issues.

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11 hours ago, Bristol-Cruiser said:

Except in civilized countries which have civilized gun laws (pick one, there are many to choose from) the number who die from gun violence is much, much smaller. Time for the US to decide if it wants to be a civilized country or not.

I think you UK would disagree with you.  Their murder rates continued to rise quickly after they instituted a complete handgun ban in the country in 1997.

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10 hours ago, Nice! said:

The answer to all this is so easy:

  1. Look for countries that have fewer gun deaths
  2. Copy their gun laws
  3. Enjoy less daily murder and homicide

Ok, I vote that we adopt NZ's gun laws.  Easy peasy, right?

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2 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:
18 hours ago, Snore said:

So before you post, please get facts.

Speaking of facts, can you please post your source for those numbers in your OP?  Thanks.  

Someplace funny, that's for sure. I know because of this:

18 hours ago, Snore said:

In 2018 387 people died in mass shootings.  

But the Gungrabby Archive, which I have shown isn't exactly picky about what they'll call a "mass" shooting, says this:

GrabbyArchive2018.jpg

So is the "real" fact 340 or 387, Snore, and what's your source?

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18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
18 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

Why?  You'll ban 'high capacity mags'.

People will still die.

So you'll ban AR or AK 'black' rifles.  

People will still die.

So you'll ban all semi auto weapons.

People will still die.

So you'll ban all rifles and revolvers, require full licensing and registration.

People will still die.

So you'll ban knives.

People will still die.

 

Like I said.

I mean, people die ALL THE TIME in traffic accidents.

Why do we even bother to have speed limits, safety belts, collision standards, and traffic laws? People will still die.

I mean, if you can't stop EVERYONE that ever sets foot in a car from dying, why bother even trying at all?

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9 minutes ago, B.J. Porter said:

Why do we even bother to have speed limits, safety belts, collision standards, and traffic laws?

A more relevant question would be:

why don't we close car registries and have confiscation programs for the previously-legal cars?

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@Snore - I'm a bit surprised you're saying what you are, but primarily because I wasn't expecting your side of politics to start recognising it for another decade and fifteen or so massacres of children. That you guys are getting to the point the left has been at for some twenty years now is something that I both applaud and believe is scaring the "anything but my guns!" crowd shitless.

Speaking of which:

3 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

FIFY.  I am not aware that any one in society thinks violence, even gun violence is cool.  But the issue is that we glorify violence and particularly gun violence, and our media driven society makes it ultra cool.

No, that's not "the" issue. If it were, Australia, Canada, Britain, etc would be suffering the same rate of murders and mass shootings as you guys get. Fact is, the USA is not alone in it's glorification of violence. Remember your media ships that worldwide. Your movies with good guys blowing away bad guys with guns - they're on our cinema and TV screens too. Your music is on our radios and in our smart-phones. Your social media is so intertwined with ours, the right-wing retards over here reference your memes on talkback radio.

More importantly than that - we have the same number of violent assaults per capita as your do (occasionally beating you on that front even). The issue is that your violent outbursts have easy access to tools that make their snap (ill)judgement lethal, whereas our boneheads, emos, and selfish attention whores might wound someone but, far more often than not, their victims live to see another day.

You're not alone in your social issues, drug problems, media influence, and general violence problem. You're alone in you reticence to deal with that problem sensibly. 

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7 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

Even @jocal505 has finally embraced my MADD theory of reducing gun violence.  It took him years to get there, but he finally came around.  Time for the rest of you jump on the team and come on in for the big win.

You have an odd relationship with the truth. And thanks, here we examine the great work of MADD. It hit like a whirlwind, and was based on morbidity, basically. They fought a liquor lobby, and they fought regressive die-hards, like Jeffie. And they won.

MADD changed our consciousness, by communicating the danger of certain common (but dangerous) behavior. They organized consequences, to bear upon drinking citizens. The same change in consciousness is now happening with Americans and their guns. The consequences bit is gonna hurt when it arrives. I'd like to see ammo taxes offset the huge medical costs.

Within weeks, certain senators will reject a background check bill. There will be public ramifications until this morbidity gets sorted out.

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3 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

Told ya it would be funny, Jeff.

Mass murders, by any count, are not funny, at all, in the USA. Neither is race-baiting. Your values are sick.

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10 hours ago, Shootist Jeff said:

 Prohibition DOES NOT WORK. 

You're absolutely right - the fact that the USA has a gun homicide rate many multiples to orders of magnitude greater than other developed nations has nothing to do with the  easy availability of 300,000,000 guns.

It's due to something else.

Has to be.

It's only common sense.

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2 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

You're absolutely right - the fact that the USA has a gun homicide rate many multiples to orders of magnitude greater than other developed nations has nothing to do with the  easy availability of 300,000,000 guns.

It's due to something else.

Has to be.

It's only common sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Sort by whichever column you choose.  Segregating homicides by implement is foolish - is someone that got stabbed less dead? 

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8 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

Sort by whichever column you choose.  Segregating homicides by implement is foolish - is someone that got stabbed less dead? 

Huh, I never looked before but had always just assumed that Costa Rica was much safer than Peru. I was wrong. Thanks for the link Ches. 

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
22 hours ago, SloopJonB said:
23 hours ago, Barnacle Balls said:

You know who's not on that list....

My best friend from college, his wife and two daughters who used an AR15 variant to blow away 3 home invaders several years back.

Sounds like dogballs bullshit to me.

Got anything to back it up?

Anyone?

Bueller?

I guess that's an "I can't because I just pulled it out of my ass"

"Like everything I post".

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6 minutes ago, LenP said:

Huh, I never looked before but had always just assumed that Costa Rica was much safer than Peru. I was wrong. Thanks for the link Ches. 

My best to the family - my youngest was asking about your son last week.   Y'all comin' this way anytime soon? 

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9 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:

Someplace funny, that's for sure. I know because of this:

But the Gungrabby Archive, which I have shown isn't exactly picky about what they'll call a "mass" shooting, says this:

GrabbyArchive2018.jpg

So is the "real" fact 340 or 387, Snore, and what's your source?

The subject is death by mass shooting and you want to argue about a 10% delta in stats about dead children.  That is sick.

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21 minutes ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

My best to the family - my youngest was asking about your son last week.   Y'all comin' this way anytime soon? 

Wife and I are heading to DC for a conference first week of March, expecting to be sans kids for the trip. Possibly coming down with the whole family, including J in from SD in April. I will shoot you a PM to see if we can make something work for one or both. 

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17 hours ago, Contumacious Tom said:
On 11/24/2017 at 11:25 AM, Steam Flyer said:

As a gun-owning Southerner & veteran & capitalist, I'm not welcome in most libby-rull groups.


I misread that before, so you said. What does it mean? Did you own guns at that time? Do you still find libbyrulls don't accept gun ownership?

You didn't misread it at all, you just don't accept it on any terms other than some imaginary way that exists only in your head. Perhaps you should move this quote to one of those threads where you talk to yourself.

-DSK

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6 hours ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:
20 hours ago, Fakenews said:

Or a dem president could declare a National emergency.

After Trump and McConnell's stupidity?  I fully expect this should they achieve success in that foolhardiness.   

Apparently most Republican Party leaders don't expect there to ever be another Democrat President, ever.

-DSK

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Very interesting observation by a Republican about the Orange one declaring a state of emergency.

’ In a statement, Republican congressman Chris Stewart said the President was “making a mistake”, warning the national emergency would “set a dangerous precedent”.  “I think President Trump is making a mistake by declaring a national emergency in order to increase border funding. Whether the President has the authority or not, it sets a dangerous precedent and places America on a path that we will regret,” Mr Stewart said.  “It deeply worries me that a future Democratic president may consider gun violence or climate change a ‘national emergency’ and what actions they may then take.’

Yep. Fuck the wall if it could lead to loseing your guns. 

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I have a question and am not trying to start anything.  If a future POTUS (does not matter R or D or I or ?) decides to use the state of emergency for gun control,  how will that go with the second amendment ? 

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