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Laser C6 rig from the front page

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19 hours ago, Emilio Castelli said:

I wonder where you get your numbers.

I see 146 lasers with a healthy dose of laser 4.7. Lots of young new blood in the class.

.Let's not forget the class just had the nationals, a world cup event and there will be two masters regatta in Fla early in March so most of the old farts will go to those regattas.

If you look at entry numbers for the last couple of years:

2018 Midwinters
Aeros 24
Melges 25
Lasers 149

2019 Midwinters
Aeros 24
Melges 25 (entry still open)
Lasers 146

Doesn't look like there is much growth in the new single handed classes and I doubt there will be much of a split off to the new rigs laser rigs either.

Rumors of the death of the laser class have been greatly exaggerated...

E

 

 

Oh come on, knock it off with actual facts. 

Just got back from Midwinters east. The class is going strong. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, VWAP said:

Oh come on, knock it off with actual facts. 

Just got back from Midwinters east. The class is going strong. 

 

 

Sure. For you.

i can’t lower my standards fast enough to keep up with its performance. 

30 Lasers at Nationals? 40 at midwinters east? 

I don’t see how denying there is  a problem helps turn the tide and get the fleet growing again. 

Despite my frantic promotion a am worried sick about declining attendance at the Easter Regatta.

We had 50 to 83 boats every year for a long long time and this year I will be thrilled if we get fifty. 

WE NEED. A SUPPORTIVE BUILDER AND READILY AVAILABLE  PARTS!!!!

i wish the class were going strong. It is in danger of dying and denial won’t fix a damn thing. 

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Sure. For you.

i can’t lower my standards fast enough to keep up with its performance. 

30 Lasers at Nationals? 40 at midwinters east? 

I don’t see how denying there is  a problem helps turn the tide and get the fleet growing again. 

Despite my frantic promotion a am worried sick about declining attendance at the Easter Regatta.

We had 50 to 83 boats every year for a long long time and this year I will be thrilled if we get fifty. 

WE NEED. A SUPPORTIVE BUILDER AND READILY AVAILABLE  PARTS!!!!

i wish the class were going strong. It is in danger of dying and denial won’t fix a damn thing. 

I feel like unfortunately classes are dying across the board, are there any dinghy classes in the US that consistently have 50+ boats at the start line?

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4 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Sure. For you.

i can’t lower my standards fast enough to keep up with its performance. 

30 Lasers at Nationals? 40 at midwinters east? 

I don’t see how denying there is  a problem helps turn the tide and get the fleet growing again. 

Despite my frantic promotion a am worried sick about declining attendance at the Easter Regatta.

We had 50 to 83 boats every year for a long long time and this year I will be thrilled if we get fifty. 

WE NEED. A SUPPORTIVE BUILDER AND READILY AVAILABLE  PARTS!!!!

i wish the class were going strong. It is in danger of dying and denial won’t fix a damn thing. 

Your numbers are wrong      again 

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On ‎2‎/‎25‎/‎2019 at 9:51 AM, dgmckim said:

I believe @Gouvernail is referring to the Full rig classification, where there were 40 entrants.

That makes sense.  The radial class is Jr heavy.  Full rig is mostly US Olympic hopefuls.  Masters get their own mid-winters on the east side in early March.

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Ahh the old days.The 100 boat Laser fleet existed in pre-Radial and pre-masters days and had sailors of all shapes, sizes, and ages - and both sexes. The East Coast Midwinters had 146 boats (RS math) and the upcoming Masters event has 70 pre-registered. I am sure there is some overlap, but still significant numbers overall. The general decline in dinghy racing - discussed to death with no conclusion in several threads - plagues us all. And the RS, Melges, Devoti, and 6 new Laser variations aren’t going to add many new sailors to the fold. The newer boats will grow largely at expense of older classes, notably the Laser. The deck of existing dinghy racers will just get shuffled. 

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22 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Exactly. 

The Radial fleet has done nothing for the Laser fleet except divide and conquer. 

.... Radials take some competitor’s from the Laser fleet.

The Radial is the only reason many of us from windier areas can race Lasers competitively. It's the only reason most juniors can sail Lasers competitively. It's the only reason many beginners can get into the Laser in many areas.

The Standard class is the one that's in trouble in many areas. Don't blame the Radial because it is doing a better job of attracting sailors.

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My observation is in-between sized sailors hang on to the full size as long as they can until the wind is blowing 20+.  Everyone looks at the Radial as sailing with a set of training wheels.

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31 minutes ago, torrid said:

My observation is in-between sized sailors hang on to the full size as long as they can until the wind is blowing 20+.  Everyone looks at the Radial as sailing with a set of training wheels.

That may be the case in the USA where winds are often light, but not everywhere.  At a recent regatta in my region, for example, an ETNZ America's Cup team sailor won Radials ahead of a former world champ in another class (former standard Masters runner-up) with other former world champs from other classes back in the pack. America's Cup sailors and world champs rarely need training wheels and no one here considers they do.

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The original Laser satisfied a need in the world of dinghy sailing and racing. So did the Radial - the Laser standard was simply too much in a breeze for lighter sailors. And there were lots of them. The fleet size was compromised, but the quality of racing improved. Not only did lighter sailors have a chance to win in a breeze, but heavier sailors weren’t getting beat by all the lighties in light and marginal planing conditions. (Of course there are a few exceptions). All these new boats and rigs aren’t filling any gaps, they are just providing an updated experience to the Laser. 

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11 hours ago, LTFF said:

I feel like unfortunately classes are dying across the board, are there any dinghy classes in the US that consistently have 50+ boats at the start line?

Thistle and Lightning are two USA classes (Lightning also has fleets out of the USA) that continue to have strong participation and very good competition. Lightning started in 1938 and Thistle in 1945. Not fair to compare the progression of the designs of these two classes and the Laser given the really large numbers of Lasers.

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i think what people are glossing over is that the demographic that would be the most fit to use Full sails (young adults) aren't sailing that much. it's either kids or masters that get on the line it seems!

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55 minutes ago, dgmckim said:

i think what people are glossing over is that the demographic that would be the most fit to use Full sails (young adults) aren't sailing that much. it's either kids or masters that get on the line it seems!

I don't think it's just the Laser either. Look at almost any one-design class in the U.S. and you'll see either teens or people over about 30 or so. Anybody in their mid to late twenties seems to be hitting the campaign trail for the Olympics or in conjunction with another program.

I think it's endemic to American dinghy racing as a whole that people tend to check out during or shortly after college, and come back in their mid thirties once they're married and their kids have the ability to sit upright.

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2 hours ago, Alan Crawford said:

Thistle and Lightning are two USA classes (Lightning also has fleets out of the USA) that continue to have strong participation and very good competition. Lightning started in 1938 and Thistle in 1945. Not fair to compare the progression of the designs of these two classes and the Laser given the really large numbers of Lasers.

Yea I’m a big fan of the Lightning, we have a 6 boat fleet at our club and it’s usually pretty competitive between those boats which keeps it fun, I’ll never understand why Lightnings get so much hate despite being on the slow and over technical side but they're so much fun to sail 

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lightnings are very cool boats. thistles are insanely good lake boats.

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5 hours ago, torrid said:

My observation is in-between sized sailors hang on to the full size as long as they can until the wind is blowing 20+.  Everyone looks at the Radial as sailing with a set of training wheels.

Everyone?

Certainly not everyone; I don't think even a majority thinks the radial as sailing with training wheels.

And I would say 10-20 is the critical wind range. When it's really blowing, technique can compensate some for (lack of) weight.

E

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9 hours ago, bill4 said:

Ahh the old days.The 100 boat Laser fleet existed in pre-Radial and pre-masters days and had sailors of all shapes, sizes, and ages - and both sexes.  

I don't remember many women on the line back in the days. I think the radial fleets now are often about 50-50. A very good trend.

E

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On 2/25/2019 at 3:17 PM, Gouvernail said:

The Radial fleet has done nothing for the Laser fleet except divide and conquer. 

This is just not true.

The radial rig has kept many lighter and older sailors in the class and attracted many female sailors to the class.

In the "good old days" there were very few females in the class.

E (traveling, jet-lagged with time on my hands)

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12 minutes ago, Emilio Castelli said:

This is just not true.

The radial rig has kept many lighter and older sailors in the class and attracted many female sailors to the class.

In the "good old days" there were very few females in the class.

E (traveling, jet-lagged with time on my hands)

You are correct. The Radial has  also done a lot for sailing not just the laser class.

It is unfortunate there are a few bitter people who constantly  go out of their way to degrade the class.

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Gov.  I love you man and miss sailing in Texas, (but Charleston doesn't suck!).  As the local Laser District Secretary for the past 2-3 years we've been making changes to encourage growth across all 3 rigs.  The 4.7 has been a struggle for sure, but last year we actually had a growth year across all 3 rigs.

I don't know what brought out 5 4.7's all of the sudden, but I do know those kids are in Radials this year.

We have coordinated our District schedule with the regional organizing authority's Jr Championship Series schedule, (SAYRA is a super strong region).  This has allowed all the Opti and Bic kids to see a path beyond those boats and 420's.  In addition parents who were sailors back in the day have been encouraged to get a Laser and go out and play instead of sitting on shore watching the kids play.  Also, when we do this the kids get two chances for results.  SAYRA championship series and D12 championship series.

I believe cost and availability to good used equipment has been a primary barrier to entry and growth.  We waived the LP parts only rule and have a grass roots "boat finder", (me) to connect people with boats when someone is looking.  Allowing kids and adults to get $2,000.00 decent hulls, replace parts with Intensity stuff and get on the line has been big for us with local district participation.  

You are right.  Gone are the days of "Laser only" regattas in our area.  People just don't have time and attendance was down to nearly zero.  So, we've adjusted.  Changed our standards.  It has worked.

3 years ago I started a frostbite series at my local club.  We had 3 full rigs show and that's it.

This year we have 8 full rigs, 10 radials and 3 Bic's registered in the series with 17 of them having participated.

The FFY, (because we've done it this way for Forty Fucking Years) theory no longer works.  Jr's are the key.  If you can get them and THEN drag in the parents you'll be in fine shape.  However, the radial rig is a big part of it.

 

 

 

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On 2/26/2019 at 8:30 AM, VWAP said:

Your numbers are wrong      again 

Would you care to check the actual numbers before apologizing 

or

Would you prefer I post the statistics and prove you to be a lowlife scumbag lying piece of shit?? 

 

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13 hours ago, RobbieB said:

Gov.  I love you man and miss sailing in Texas, (but Charleston doesn't suck!).  As the local Laser District Secretary for the past 2-3 years we've been making changes to encourage growth across all 3 rigs.  The 4.7 has been a struggle for sure, but last year we actually had a growth year across all 3 rigs.

I don't know what brought out 5 4.7's all of the sudden, but I do know those kids are in Radials this year.

We have coordinated our District schedule with the regional organizing authority's Jr Championship Series schedule, (SAYRA is a super strong region).  This has allowed all the Opti and Bic kids to see a path beyond those boats and 420's.  In addition parents who were sailors back in the day have been encouraged to get a Laser and go out and play instead of sitting on shore watching the kids play.  Also, when we do this the kids get two chances for results.  SAYRA championship series and D12 championship series.

I believe cost and availability to good used equipment has been a primary barrier to entry and growth.  We waived the LP parts only rule and have a grass roots "boat finder", (me) to connect people with boats when someone is looking.  Allowing kids and adults to get $2,000.00 decent hulls, replace parts with Intensity stuff and get on the line has been big for us with local district participation.  

You are right.  Gone are the days of "Laser only" regattas in our area.  People just don't have time and attendance was down to nearly zero.  So, we've adjusted.  Changed our standards.  It has worked.

3 years ago I started a frostbite series at my local club.  We had 3 full rigs show and that's it.

This year we have 8 full rigs, 10 radials and 3 Bic's registered in the series with 17 of them having participated.

The FFY, (because we've done it this way for Forty Fucking Years) theory no longer works.  Jr's are the key.  If you can get them and THEN drag in the parents you'll be in fine shape.  However, the radial rig is a big part of it.

 

 

 

FANTASTIC!!

Our Twenty something district Secretary is keeping Texas Laser saiiing rocking and rolling as it has not done in years.

The junior fleet of Radials is also doing  almost as well  it has ever done.

Despite all the hard work on promotion , we are up against one simply HUGE obstacle. The sailors are finding it too difficult to obtain the new radial cut Laser sail and NO ONE STOCKS NEW BOATS!!!!

I managed to find about twenty five pretty decent used boats in the last couple years. Our fleet guys found new sailors and a few other good old used toys and we did get some  new blood but we are not able to get those five or six BRAND NEW boats into the fleet every year, the hand me down fleet simply is not happening. 

   We are keeping our boats longer before passing them to newbies or simply still sailing our ten to twenty five  year old toys. 

   Partly we are less enthusiastic because age cures enthusiasm, but old boats cure enthusiasm just as surely. 

    The annual fleet  five new boat purchase used to generate not just the enthusiasm of the BRAND NEW TOYS but it generated the enthusiasm of five newbies who had bought boats from those of us who had dragged them out to play. (You can’t buy a new boat without selling the old one) 

The Radial Fleet used to turn out for the same regattas as the Laser fleet. the Texas Radial fleet pretty much only sails junior events. We spend endless hours brainstorming and trying things to get both fleets back up and running well. Some stunts work. Other seemingly great ideas turn out to be flops.

but.... we sure as hell have not given up on Either the Laser or the Radial.

What we HAVE done is add the AERO. Texas is having a general economic boom and, for example, 150 new people with great jobs are moving to Austin EVERY DAY!!! We are running all kinds of introduction to sailing programs and we are probably getting the attention of about one new sailor every day. 

Austin’s keelboat and RC sailing games are booming. 

    The average age of the active sailors at AYC is actually DROPPING!!!

but here is a fact:

These 150 per day new folks want and can easily afford shiny brand new toys.  They are buying $200,000 powerboats more often than they are buying all Sailboats combined. 

Why??? NOBODY STOCKS AND SELLS BRAND BEW SHINY SAILBOATS IN AUSTIN!!!

These folks don’t drive 25 year old cars!! They not only don’t have a place to fix up an old toy, they don’t have the tools, and they don’t have the slightest idea how to use those tools. 

The 150 new folks with jobs simply cannot walk into a sailboat store, touch a shiny new toy, whip out the credit card, and buy it......BECAUSE THE STORE DOES NOT EXIST!!!!!

Our local AERO dealer is stocking new boats, and enthusiastically supporting the racing game.

There is no Wednesday night AERO fleet YET. 

There is no AERO fleet at most Texas regattas YET. 

It would still be a hell of a lot easier to build a booming Laser fleet than build the AERO fleet up to critical mass. 

But I don’t see anybody who controls distribution even trying to distribute.

I am busily setting up the 36th Annual Easter Laser Regatta. I am trying to do things which will attract great Laser, Radial, and 4.7 fleets. 

   I had a long conversation with one of the junior fleet mover and shaker parents last night and I will be calling others tonight. I am going to drag sailors to my Regatta!!! 

And!!! Just in case the Laser Builder never decides to start promoting Lasers again, I am inviting the AERO fleet.

The AERO dealer is arranging charter boats!!

CHARTER BOATS!!  Is that cool or what?? 

we DO  NOT CURRENTLY HAVE A LASER DEALER!!! The only way we accommodate wannabe Laser sailors is by me arranging loaner boats which are usually the boats belonging to the old guys who would rather do RC  than sail hard for two days. 

i wish we had a dealer. I probably cannot afford to set up a Laser dealership on my own but I would certainly be willing to do so at my boat shop. If LP wants to team up and promote the hell out of Lasers, Radials,  Sunfish, parts, and provide service here in Austin, I am certain I could sell a whole lot of boats and NOBODY is a more qualified or experienced maintenance guy. 

It makes perfect sense LP would want to establish a flagship dealershio right here. The international office of the Laser Class is right down the street. Who better to team with to promote Laser sailing than the ILCA and the last person in North America to manage a growing sailboat racing association of over 3000 paid members?!?

i am all over it!!!!!! 

But... Just in  case LP or some new owner of the Laser / Sunfish business fails to come through...

it is with  great regret and a feeling of abandonment of decades of hard work that I will do my very best to set up whatever fleet might fill the current gaping void left by the malnourished and nearly dead Laser game. 

Note to a few who have posted in this thread: 

if you have the temerity to criticize my level of enthusiasm or support for the success of Laser sailing, you damn certain better be able to convince readers you are capable of doing something other than bitching!!! 

 

Finally: 

@VWAP is nothing but a limp dicked pussy who sits in his mommy’s basement writing shit on his Windows ME desktop.   He repeatedly writes about some imaginary feud between me and those who are trying to manage the Laser Association. 

I constantly point at misdirected efforts and shortcomings  and offer solutions because i am on the same team and have the same  goals. We all want huge regattas of happy Laser and radial sailors. 

VWAP prefers to disrupt and create a wedge with which he can prevent it destroy the fun of others.. He never has and never will do ANYTHING for  the game of sailing. He constantly posts bullshit inflammatory personal attacks because he knows his mommy will never let him actually go outside and meet any of us. I would feel sorry for him but he has that ankle bracelet for good reason. 

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On 2/26/2019 at 6:39 AM, LTFF said:

I feel like unfortunately classes are dying across the board, are there any dinghy classes in the US that consistently have 50+ boats at the start line?

Optis. Radials. 420. Big Thistle events. 

We really need builders and dealers of toys who promote and support those toys as sailboat racing toys. 

I am certain the ONLY reason Lasers and Sunfish are stumbling is Vanguard let go of the reins. 

RS seems very dedicated to making those fleets happen. I am throwing my hat in the ring and attempting to increase their chance of success.

Why??

I wanna Play!!!

 

 

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3 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Would you care to check the actual numbers before apologizing 

or

Would you prefer I post the statistics and prove you to be a lowlife scumbag lying piece of shit?? 

 

30 Lasers at Nationals?  http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/16691#_newsroom

http://www.regattanetwork.com/event/15758#_newsroom+results

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Optis. Radials. 420. Big Thistle events. 

We really need builders and dealers of toys who promote and support those toys as sailboat racing toys. 

I am certain the ONLY reason Lasers and Sunfish are stumbling is Vanguard let go of the reins. 

RS seems very dedicated to making those fleets happen. I am throwing my hat in the ring and attempting to increase their chance of success.

Why??

I wanna Play!!!

 

 

Gouv do you know of anyone trying to become an LP distributor?

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6 minutes ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Do you know of anyone trying to become an LP distributor?

Try Vela Sailing Supply

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2 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Optis. Radials. 420. Big Thistle events. 

We really need builders and dealers of toys who promote and support those toys as sailboat racing toys. 

I am certain the ONLY reason Lasers and Sunfish are stumbling is Vanguard let go of the reins. 

RS seems very dedicated to making those fleets happen. I am throwing my hat in the ring and attempting to increase their chance of success.

Why??

I wanna Play!!!

 

 

I admire the enthusiasm, but it’s a bit myopic to think the only good racing is fleet racing in big fleets.  

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2 hours ago, VWAP said:

Yes!! 30 boats at the US Nationals at Seabrook. 

I eas not referring to the event held in the off-season a few weeks ago. 

 

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1 hour ago, sosoomii said:

I admire the enthusiasm, but it’s a bit myopic to think the only good racing is fleet racing in big fleets.  

Sorry if I gave you that impression. 

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1 hour ago, onepointfivethumbs said:

Gouv do you know of anyone trying to become an LP distributor?

I know of two dealers who serve my area who gave up in frustration because LP simply refused to supply boats and parts. 

The LP business model dies not seem to include supporting local dealers and regattas.

the Laser game boomed under builders who  supported both fanatically 

 

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6 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

You lowlife asshole!!! You deliberately quoted me out of context so you could make it look as though I wrote something entirely different than what I wrote.

Fuck you !! Fuck  people who  act like you!! 

Fuck people who read out of context quotes and assume the fucking lowlife assholes who deliberately misled them are making legitimate points !! 

I wrote: 

“yes. yes I know MANY people thoroughly enjoy Radial sailing and I am in no way shape or firm suggesting the Radial is anything but a wonderful addition to the world of sailing.

but shitheads like you who would rather make an argument than a contribution just have to lie by omission.

go fuck yourself!!

 

 

Don't know where this is coming from but I think you should apologize.

E

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2 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

I think you should go fuck yourself!! 

I am sick and tired of assholes who deliberately twist the writings or speech of  others to suit their need to make those others look bad. 

You had to maliciously edit my post to quote it in such a manner as you did. 

If you want to get your rocks  off by pulling shit like that, invent a sock puppet and go play your games in Political Anarchy where that sort of behavior is tolerated and perhaps even encouraged. 

 

 

Same to you.

E

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5 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Despite all the hard work on promotion , we are up against one simply HUGE obstacle. The sailors are finding it too difficult to obtain the new radial cut Laser sail and NO ONE STOCKS NEW BOATS!!!!

Is it not possible to purchase the MKII sails from overseas if you can't get local supply?  PSA has the North, Pryde and Hyde versions in stock and the USD is pretty strong in comparison to the AUD, even if they're restricted from shipping to the US, I'm sure you could find a friendly aussie to ship some over...

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11 minutes ago, JMP said:

Is it not possible to purchase the MKII sails from overseas if you can't get local supply?  PSA has the North, Pryde and Hyde versions in stock and the USD is pretty strong in comparison to the AUD, even if they're restricted from shipping to the US, I'm sure you could find a friendly aussie to ship some over...

You can get sails in the US They might not be stocked at your local dealer but the dealer can get them for you or you or you can order them on line a get deliveries within a week.

Same with boats I guess though I've never bought a brand new one since event boats seem to be a much better deal.

E

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4 hours ago, Emilio Castelli said:

You can get sails in the US They might not be stocked at your local dealer but the dealer can get them for you or you or you can order them on line a get deliveries within a week.

Same with boats I guess though I've never bought a brand new one since event boats seem to be a much better deal.

E

The 4.7 and Radial Youth Worlds are both in Kingston, Ontario this summer.  There are plans for charter boats to be available, which presumably will come onto the market in North America afterwards unless they get shipped overseas (My daughter's boat is an ex Youth Worlds charter from China). 

 Or does the lack of dealers mean no- one will scoop them up for resale?

 Both are limited entry events capped at 240 sailors. I'm not certain that my daughter will secure a place, though with a few weeks left to go the 4.7-F still has one place available and the Radial-F a few more, which looks promising.  Are there many classes that limit entry to their World Champs to sailors with a national ranking? 

Cheers,

              W.

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Aero is doing a great job that's for sure.  I saw an LP box trailer here last week in a contractors driveway. He's converted it to some kind of man cave.  Guess he picked it up at the local pawn store.  Sad for sure...

My Laser is a good'ole 2001 Vangard cherry.  Picked it up 2 years ago for $1,700.00. The mast step still had the factory paint/gelcoat covering the metal plate at the bottom.  I have a hard time getting the itch to hunt down a new boat, (West coast sailing has them BTW) when I'm competitive with the new boats.

A member of our club has 3 older lasers that are in great shape.  We upgraded all the rigging through intensity and these are our "race only" loaners for people wanting to try the boat out.  We've generated 4 new boat owners from these in the last year.  That's been huge for local development.

I hear'ya on LP and US supply.  You can find stuff.  It's a hassle, but it's out there.  Like I said though.  Aero is doing a hell of a job!

Stay on top of those Juniors.  

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7 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

Yes!! 30 boats at the US Nationals at Seabrook. 

I eas not referring to the event held in the off-season a few weeks ago. 

 

ummm 35 not 30

2018 Laser Class US Nationals & U.S. Singlehanded Sailing Championship
Houston Yacht Club | June 29-July 03, 2018

Laser (35 boats) (top)
- Series Standing - 9 races scored

Information is provisional and subject to modification
Regatta results last updated: Monday, July 02, 2018 9:00:28 PM CDT

https://www.regattanetwork.com/clubmgmt/applet_regatta_results.php?regatta_id=15758&media_format=1

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39 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Aero is doing a great job that's for sure.  I saw an LP box trailer here last week in a contractors driveway. He's converted it to some kind of man cave.  Guess he picked it up at the local pawn store.  Sad for sure...

My Laser is a good'ole 2001 Vangard cherry.  Picked it up 2 years ago for $1,700.00. The mast step still had the factory paint/gelcoat covering the metal plate at the bottom.  I have a hard time getting the itch to hunt down a new boat, (West coast sailing has them BTW) when I'm competitive with the new boats.

A member of our club has 3 older lasers that are in great shape.  We upgraded all the rigging through intensity and these are our "race only" loaners for people wanting to try the boat out.  We've generated 4 new boat owners from these in the last year.  That's been huge for local development.

I hear'ya on LP and US supply.  You can find stuff.  It's a hassle, but it's out there.  Like I said though.  Aero is doing a hell of a job!

Stay on top of those Juniors.  

Not a problem getting new  boats or parts 

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5 hours ago, Emilio Castelli said:

You can get sails in the US They might not be stocked at your local dealer but the dealer can get them for you or you or you can order them on line a get deliveries within a week.

Same with boats I guess though I've never bought a brand new one since event boats seem to be a much better deal.

E

Emilio

I have met you on the west coast  and heard about you from friends in the area. You are a great inspiration to the class and racers. You have a long history of doing good for the class. Your only agenda is to get people on the water 

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33 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Not a problem getting new  boats or parts 

It was really bad two years ago, but it is better now for sure.

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1 hour ago, VWAP said:

Emilio

I have met you on the west coast  and heard about you from friends in the area. You are a great inspiration to the class and racers. You have a long history of doing good for the class. Your only agenda is to get people on the water 

Thanks. Yes, the goal is to get people out on dinghies. I sail out of Richmond and our fleet has been growing in the last few years. We encourage the Aero and M-14 to join us as well and we all share a glass of wine at our "debriefings".

Are you going to Florida next week for the master events? I hear they're sponsored by a really good winery....Like all West Coast events....

E

 

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30 minutes ago, Emilio Castelli said:

Thanks. Yes, the goal is to get people out on dinghies. I sail out of Richmond and our fleet has been growing in the last few years. We encourage the Aero and M-14 to join us as well and we all share a glass of wine at our "debriefings".

Are you going to Florida next week for the master events? I hear they're sponsored by a really good winery....Like all West Coast events....

E

 

Hi E- If that's Richmond, VA D12 is having an event on Kerr Lake, (VA/NC border) June 15-16.  It's really close to Richmond and a camping venue so easy on the wallet.

Let all your peeps know.

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3 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Hi E- If that's Richmond, VA D12 is having an event on Kerr Lake, (VA/NC border) June 15-16.  It's really close to Richmond and a camping venue so easy on the wallet.

Let all your peeps know.

Richmond California. You should come out for the Master Nationals in July in Monterey (if you are a master) or for the Slalom in San Francisco.

E

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25 minutes ago, Emilio Castelli said:

Richmond California. You should come out for the Master Nationals in July in Monterey (if you are a master) or for the Slalom in San Francisco.

E

I'm a master, (well, I qualify by age at least) and I'd love to do a CA regatta trip one day.  Not in the cards this year though.... Thanks for the invite.

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Years ago when I lived in the Northeast US, I purchased a new Laser. There was not a dealer close by and I didn't want to drive a few hours to pickup a new boat. I worked with a dealer in New England and they simply shipped the complete boat still packaged in the cardboard box to a freight terminal near where I lived. I drove there with an empty trailer, unpacked the boat, recycled the cardboard at the terminal and left with a new boat. I don't remember the freight charges but nothing terrible (cheaper than my time and gas to drive 5).

Perhaps that is still a way to get a new Laser from, say, Portland, OR to Austin, TX?

Dave Clark is shipping UFO's all over the world from Rhode Island so it seems that this can be a viable option for a Laser.

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Globalization and the internet unfortunately killed the Laser class dealer-centric business model.  LP's business ethics were the final nail in the coffin.

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25 minutes ago, torrid said:

Globalization and the internet unfortunately killed the Laser class dealer-centric business model.  LP's business ethics were the final nail in the coffin.

We had a local dealer.  Guy is really cool and did it more as a hobby than anything else.  LP ran him off...Not we got nuttin'.

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The series of responses above give me the impression the authors want everyone to believe there is no significance to the alleged supply problem.

i have no idea what motivates anyone to deny the fact the lack of well stocked local dealers has been a problem in all parts  of the sailing experience since Sailboat dealerships started going away in the early eighties. 

Since around 1990,  boats like Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, Hobies, Lasers, and Sunfish have had dealers with boats and dedicated parts in stock but even those dealerships have been closing or switching to an emphasis on powered craft. 

The local dealer provides the sailing scene with at least one person whose livelihood depends upon the health of the local sailing community. 

Fir the last few decades it has been possible to buy a Finn, Snioe, Lightning, Firce Five, Moth  or other much less successful than Lasers Sailboat. A sailor CAN get sails for any Sailboat. 

The Laser game has prospered most vigorously in places where sailors could walk into the local store, fondle a boat, and discuss the purchase options. Vanguard supported stocking dealers. The Laser Class in North America grew to over 3000 members and we started winning Olympic medals again. 

Then LP killed the dealer network. 

People talk a lot about out “please me right now” American consumers. Finding a friend in Australia who can ship a batch of sails to the USA is NOT in any way shape or form “please me now.”

i want LP to change its business model to include ENCOURAGING AND SUPPORTING local dealers who stock Lasers, Sunfish, and all the parts and sails needed to maintain the toys and compete in Laser, Radial, 4.7, and Sunfish games. 

If LP doesn’t want to do that, I want someone to buy the business and do it right.

in the meantime I am spending a great deal of personal effort and money trying to keep our local game vibrant. 

My repair shop currently stocks many new, lightly used, and really tired Sailing stuff. I have blades, spars, fittings, and lines for both Lasers and Sunfish.  Nobody has to miss a race in Austin because his / her boat won’t work.

we would be far better off if we still had a dealer who stocked new boats and all the goodies.

my request to each of you:

Please  consider whether it would be better for the game to convince LP to support a dealer network 

or

Deny we have a supply problem and assign malicious selfish motivations to anyone who has the temerity to complain.

Yiu can certainly decide what is best for our game. 

summary:

i believe we could have a much more available and wonderfully fun sailing game. Until they start tossing shovels of dirt over my casket, I plan to continue trying to get everyone on the planet out to play on Sailboats.  I especially love sailing on singlehanded boats in huge fleets so I have focused a lot of time and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting that game.  

The 36th Easter Laser Regatta is coming up. I would be thrilled to see each of you who reads this out sailing in the races and enjoying the company of the other sailors at the breakfasts, lunches, dinner, and whatever else comes up. 

I see these threads as a tool for sharing ideas and promoting our great game. That includes RAILING on the shortcomings and offering solutions. 

Double digit Laser fleet numbers at major regattas are unacceptable. 

We can do better. 

 

 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

The series of responses above give me the impression the authors want everyone to believe there is no significance to the alleged supply problem.

i have no idea what motivates anyone to deny the fact the lack of well stocked local dealers has been a problem in all parts  of the sailing experience since Sailboat dealerships started going away in the early eighties. 

Since around 1990,  boats like Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, Hobies, Lasers, and Sunfish have had dealers with boats and dedicated parts in stock but even those dealerships have been closing or switching to an emphasis on powered craft. 

The local dealer provides the sailing scene with at least one person whose livelihood depends upon the health of the local sailing community. 

Fir the last few decades it has been possible to buy a Finn, Snioe, Lightning, Firce Five, Moth  or other much less successful than Lasers Sailboat. A sailor CAN get sails for any Sailboat. 

The Laser game has prospered most vigorously in places where sailors could walk into the local store, fondle a boat, and discuss the purchase options. Vanguard supported stocking dealers. The Laser Class in North America grew to over 3000 members and we started winning Olympic medals again. 

Then LP killed the dealer network. 

People talk a lot about out “please me right now” American consumers. Finding a friend in Australia who can ship a batch of sails to the USA is NOT in any way shape or form “please me now.”

i want LP to change its business model to include ENCOURAGING AND SUPPORTING local dealers who stock Lasers, Sunfish, and all the parts and sails needed to maintain the toys and compete in Laser, Radial, 4.7, and Sunfish games. 

If LP doesn’t want to do that, I want someone to buy the business and do it right.

in the meantime I am spending a great deal of personal effort and money trying to keep our local game vibrant. 

My repair shop currently stocks many new, lightly used, and really tired Sailing stuff. I have blades, spars, fittings, and lines for both Lasers and Sunfish.  Nobody has to miss a race in Austin because his / her boat won’t work.

we would be far better off if we still had a dealer who stocked new boats and all the goodies.

my request to each of you:

Please  consider whether it would be better for the game to convince LP to support a dealer network 

or

Deny we have a supply problem and assign malicious selfish motivations to anyone who has the temerity to complain.

Yiu can certainly decide what is best for our game. 

summary:

i believe we could have a much more available and wonderfully fun sailing game. Until they start tossing shovels of dirt over my casket, I plan to continue trying to get everyone on the planet out to play on Sailboats.  I especially love sailing on singlehanded boats in huge fleets so I have focused a lot of time and spent hundreds of thousands of dollars promoting that game.  

The 36th Easter Laser Regatta is coming up. I would be thrilled to see each of you who reads this out sailing in the races and enjoying the company of the other sailors at the breakfasts, lunches, dinner, and whatever else comes up. 

I see these threads as a tool for sharing ideas and promoting our great game. That includes RAILING on the shortcomings and offering solutions. 

Double digit Laser fleet numbers at major regattas are unacceptable. 

We can do better. 

 

 

 

Since around 1990,  boats like Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, Hobies, Lasers, and Sunfish have had dealers with boats and dedicated parts in stock but even those dealerships have been closing or switching to an emphasis on powered craft. 

This nails it.  The primary problem with sail boats is they are not easy to handle.  You need at least one friend per trip that understands a little bit about how to work it and they take more water to float.  They are not easy to manage at a public launch ramp either and stepping a mast is always a blast.  Motor boats.  Splash them, turn the key and go!  Only one person needs to have some idea of how to operate the boat. Pull'em up on the beach.  Drink, play, lounge.  You're not going to break a sweat getting it going or putting it away. Also, it can sit in your driveway for free while a 25+ foot sail boat needs a boat slip at the cost of a small apartment.  The late 70's early 80's was a magical time for sailing.  Anyone who didn't get to experience it really missed something, but those days are gone forever due to the expense of a boat and waterfront development making even more barriers to entry.  Power boats out sell sail buy a huge margin.  Dealerships are in the business to make money and won't stock what doesn't sell.

When I'm sailing, I'm racing.  Otherwise I'm hanging with my family and friends on the family power boat pulled up to a beach.  When I'm done with it a fork lift pulls it out of the water and puts it away in covered storage for $250/month.  There are few sail boat dealerships anymore because they just don't sell.  The premier Beneteau dealer in Charleston is selling more trawlers than sailboats.  However, they do always have brand new 1 45 foot+ sail boat on display.  

Then you have idiot publications like Sailing World promoting all foiling boats for "boat of the year" selections.  Shit- that's just shooting ourselves in the foot even more.

Everybody wants is easy and quick these days, (thanks internet and fast food and on demand TV) sailing just doesn't fit the popular mold anymore.  

All we can do is what we're all trying to do in our tiny little subset of the world.... 

 

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

 

Local parts, boat suppliers are generally a thing of the past for all one design classes . Unless West Marine has it. Last year we took delievery on two lasers one on each coast and a new Starboat. Did not go to the local dealer for any of them. Ordered  extra parts at the same time . This is the new reality not just in sailing. You need to plan ahead. 

 

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39 minutes ago, VWAP said:

Local parts, boat suppliers are generally a thing of the past for all one design classes . Unless West Marine has it. Last year we took delievery on two lasers one on each coast and a new Starboat. Did not go to the local dealer for any of them. Ordered  extra parts at the same time . This is the new reality not just in sailing. You need to plan ahead. 

 

Yeah- Just got another MKII sail from West Coast Sailing today.  We did get a new Quantum shop that opened up in town last year.  He's stocking Zhik, Gill, Selden equipment and pretty sure he just put a VX One on his "show room" floor as he's a VX dealer.  He's bucking the trend and I hope he makes it!

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Sailboat dealing has ALWAYS been different. 

In the Forties, fifties, and sixties Chautauqua Lake Yacht Club’s fleets were the dealerships. 

The Snipe fleet always had a new boat in stock. The Lightning fleet built at least one new boat every winter. 

When we moved in a mile from the club, Dad was introduced to the fleet by the plumber who came to help fix up our house. 

The plumber was participating in a fleet purchase of new fiberglass Snipes and sold his 1946 Cedar planked boat to my Dad. The 1946 boat was purchased by our plumber from the brand new charter fleet after the club hosted the Internationals. 

(I have a point... bear with me) 

In the sixties and especially in the  seventies, boat companies and boat dealers started selling fiberglass Sailboats. As dealing with the constraints of one design classes is difficult and often expensive, boat companies started building their own designs and forming their own sailing associations. 

By the mid seventies almost all sailing clubs had not just ceased to market new Sailboats but many pushed the “commercial business” away. 

In the Eighties, when Sailboat dealerships started closing their doors, none of the clubs resurrected their own new boat dealing programs. 

Why?? How about, “selling boats is commercial and we are a Corinthian club.”

For years I have been campaigning for our club’s “recognized fleet status” to include a requirement the fleet keep at least one READY TO RACE boat in a designated “Fleet boats for sale” parking lot at the club. 

Yes. Our J-80 fleet would have to invest $2000 each to stock a $40,000 boat but the presence of a vibrant fleet adds way more than $2000 to a local J-80.

Our Laser fleet and Sunfish fleets could stick a brand fully tricked out new boat and dolly with only a $200 investment. 

We already sell club logo clothing and mooring lines, adding a small chandlery wouldn’t be a big deal. 

Remember when “sailing ought to look at how golf does it” was the thing?? 

Dont most golf courses have a pro shop? Don’t bowling alleys sell bowling balls and shoes? Don’t swimming centers usually have suits for sale?? Gold’s Gym has all sorts of stuff in its little store. 

Lots of marinas have shops stores. 

I say all this knowing my $200,000  stash of Sailboat parts, lines, and paints would be in direct competition with the “communists” right down the street but I think the game could be helped. 

 

When an interested newbie shows up and has a simply wonderful time that person often wants to get a boat.

“There's a pretty good one sitting on a trailer out behind the drysail area in Fort Worth,”  just doesn’t cut it. 

There could be a tidy little supplemental income available for a hobbyist who would keep a new Laser and a stash of goodies ready for interested new sailors. It doesn’t have to be a storefront with $2 per square foot per month rent. 

The game needs someone at every venue who can say, “I have everything you need. Let me help set you up.”

As Laser sailors I believe we want to have somebody start doing that for us before a critical mass start doing it for AEROs or some other boat. 

Time is not on our side. 

Currently, neither is LP. 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

In the Forties, fifties, and sixties Chautauqua Lake Yacht Club’s fleets were the dealerships.

In the 70's and 80's our club had members who were the area Flying Scott and Highlander dealers.  They would even set up at the annual city boat show, (remember when there were actually sail boats at the boat show!?!)

In the Eighties, when Sailboat dealerships started closing their doors, none of the clubs resurrected their own new boat dealing programs. 

Where I was in the late 70's and 80's the hobie became the new rage.  We sold them about as fast as I could put them together.  We actually carried an inventory like you see places do with wave runners these days.  This is also when the "pocket cruisers" from Hunter, Catalina, O'day and a host of others were the boats of choice and PHRF started to take off.  The J24 was the only OD keel boat and also began it's popularity.  The "dingy" sailors were viewed as elite purists.  The OD club and the PHRF club didn't mix and were at times openly hostile toward one another when crossing paths/race courses on the water.

For years I have been campaigning for our club’s “recognized fleet status” to include a requirement the fleet keep at least one READY TO RACE boat in a designated “Fleet boats for sale” parking lot at the club. 

By accident this is what has happened at our club in the past two years with the 3 boats we have on hand. (we also keep Sunfish, Opti's Bic's and Hobie 16's). I cruised the grounds in December and found two decent Lasers that were growing moss.  Contacted both owners.  One is donating to the club and the other has agreed to give us "permanent loan" of his boat as long as we waive the annual storage fee and fix what we break.

The game needs someone at every venue who can say, “I have everything you need. Let me help set you up.” 

Yes.  this has worked super well!  We're even charging $5 per day for club members and $10 per day for non-club members.  This was a club idea but it's so cheap people are more than happy to pay to play!

 

 

 

 

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Gotta wonder how this fits with the North Anerican Laser  Copyright holder whose boats will no longer be recognized as class legal. 

 

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