SPORTSCAR

Brooks & Shithouse

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36 years since my first bad experience of this over rated crap, little has changed. 

1983 owner came up from his lavishly equipped Nav station and announced that he was now the proud owner of an umpteen thousand dollar B & G clock because his brand new system had failed. He drily added that even the clock was only accurate twice a day. Fast forward to 2019 and a very similar scenario with screens full of irrelevant numbers or no numbers. Lets hear about your experiences with B & G

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From the original gray boxes named for ancient Saxons, to the H5000, the instruments are pretty good, the support and documentation “British”, similar to any UK built system. 

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1 hour ago, LionessRacing said:

From the original gray boxes named for ancient Saxons, to the H5000, the instruments are pretty good, the support and documentation “British”, similar to any Mexican/UK built system. 

Fixed it for you.

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I’ve never bought Mexican systems, had assumed that like Italian they just didn’t bother much with documentation.  Looked at small Ag tractors back in 2010, John Deere was OEM’ing the Goldini. Dealer said they would really prefer to not sell one, while the Italians did good work, the manuals f they existed didn’t translate. 

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I have  the following B&G setup:

H5000 Computer

H5000 Pilot Computer

H5000 Pilot Controller

Pilot Remote

Rudder Reference

Vertical MHU

4 x H5000 Graphic Display

2 x Zeus MFD

ZG100 GPS

RC42N Rate Compass

V50 VHF + H50 Remote

DST 

In three years (after dealing with two items that were DOA), I've had a single failure (the PCB in the Vertical MHU), possibly due to nearby lightning.

No complaints here.

 

 

 

 

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I have a Hydra2000 system which was installed somewhere around the end of the 90ies... and still works flawlessly. 

Hydra2000 processor

Halcyon2000 compass

MHU213 wind vane

Sonic Speed Sensor

Depth sensor

two FFD-displays

two 20/20 mast displays (added later)

I have changed the compass once because it was dead, but other than that, I can't complain, either.

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On 2/16/2019 at 7:02 PM, LionessRacing said:

From the original gray boxes named for ancient Saxons, to the H5000, the instruments are pretty good, the support and documentation “British”, similar to any UK built system. 

+1

Only a Brit can see the logic in putting Speed Over Ground under the "Waypoint" menu and not the "Speed" menu.

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Back in 97 I sailed with a guy who had a Swan 42. Seemed like every time we prepped for a race or cruse he had to get the B & G tech out to the boat to get the instruments working again. It has forever turned me off of B & G. 

 
My last two boats had Nexus systems. Had the previous boat 15 years without a problem. The current boat is going on 18 years. Had to replace the wind transducer and the multis are starting to fail. Don't what I am going to replace the Nexus with. Hate Garmin for fucking up Nexus but the alternative is B & G.

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Various nationalities have stereotypical styles to their hardware, which can be found in their Automobiles, airplanes and appliances

  • Swiss build elegant things to run forever; without regard to cost
  • Japanese make it simple, elegant and cheap
  • Koreans make it simpler, more elegant and cheaper
  • Chinese make it simplest, and cheapest
  • Taiwanese make it cheaper, complex and elegant 
  • Russians make it indestructible enough to be used by peasants and usually powerful
  • Italians make it exotic, high featured and fragile (and that's just their ag tractors...) 
  • Germans make it high featured, low frequency of maintenance and expensive
  • French toggle between Italian and German sensibilities, often with the worst aspects of both
  • British make splendid equipment that's high maintenance, generally unreliable but looks great sitting there  
  • Like 1

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We have a H5000 setup on a Sunfast 3600 with twin Pilot rams, 3 multifunctional displays and a Zeus3 plotter. Only issue we’ve ever had is the Zeus overheating in the cockpit but otherwise it’s been a good system with the highlight being the autopilot. You’d need to start spending serious cash to get a better system, the Sailmon stuff gets some good reviews. In Lymington, UK we have A&T instruments started out servicing B&G instrumentation (and they still do) but then began to develop their own hardware which looks very similar to B&G but the manufacturing quality is leagues ahead. Their stuff can also be fully integrated into an existing b&g system. That’s where my money would go if I felt I needed more.

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I have  the following B&G setup:

H5000 Computer

H5000 3D Motion Sensor

3 x H5000 Graphic Display

5 x Triton2

2 x Zeus3 7" MFD's

Precision 9 Compass

GPS (I forgot which)

AIS (I forgot which)

H5000 integrates smoothly over Ethernet /Websockets to a PC with Expedition

Installed on a J/109 as an upgrade from an Occam. 

I am very happy with it. Read about the install and NMEA2000 in the February 2018 Practical Sailor magazine edition.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/issues/44_2/features/Testing-the-BG-Zeus3-Nav-System_12355-1.html

I highly recommend Eric Steinberg as a dealer and for installation advice. He specializes in grand prix racing yacht systems from One Design to America's Cup. 
http://www.farallon.us/webstore/index1.html?aboutus.html&1

 

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First for a grossly inaccurate and vacuous generalization:

Various nationalities have stereotypical styles to their hardware

And now for the main course:

Tell me sportscar, what sailing instrumentation do you prefer? Can you name another manufacturer who's been at it for 50 years, has always sold the leading high-end instrumentation, has multiple product lines and the best displays and sensors on the market?

Could it be that the owners with which you're familiar have purchased expensive hardware at a steep discount and failed to have it professionally installed and calibrated and then, rather than deal with their poor choices, they just whine endlessly? Because certainly the vast majority of owners seem satisfied with their instrumentation ... maybe it's just you?

WTF?

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I've got the full H5000 performance set up. No real issues. A few areas where I would have expected better functionality, but is there any real alternative? 

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I have full h5000 system. With Vulcan chart plotter. Autopilot alone was worth the cost as I sail short handed.  get the b&g 

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2 hours ago, Moonduster said:

First for a grossly inaccurate and vacuous generalization:

Various nationalities have stereotypical styles to their hardware

And now for the main course:

Tell me sportscar, what sailing instrumentation do you prefer? Can you name another manufacturer who's been at it for 50 years, has always sold the leading high-end instrumentation, has multiple product lines and the best displays and sensors on the market?

Could it be that the owners with which you're familiar have purchased expensive hardware at a steep discount and failed to have it professionally installed and calibrated and then, rather than deal with their poor choices, they just whine endlessly? Because certainly the vast majority of owners seem satisfied with their instrumentation ... maybe it's just you?

WTF?

I've owned two FIAT 124 Spider's and a Porsche 986 that I would call "sportscars" for fun driving, and a pair of '67 bugs that I could bash together to get one to run. 

(And for family transportation in the last 20 years : a Saab 900, Volvo S80 and Turbo wagon, Mercedes E350 Bluetec, 2x Ford Escape, Mazda MiniVan, Chrysler Grand caravan, Pontiac Grand Am, Ford Explorer, Chevy Blazer & Silverado 1500 with snowplows, as well as a Chevy 3500 HD 16' flatbed, two 20 HP Kubota diesel Ag tractors and there's a Westerbeke in Lioness) 

The (used) Fiat's were lot of fun and generally unreliable but never needed to be,  the Porsche Boxster was bulletproof, with an engine somewhere behind the driver that I never did see. 

I have quite a bit of B&G as noted above. (try reading the # 2 post ) and am generally satisfied with it. 

The B&G gear has gotten a lot better since Navico bought them, and they currently have Support and development in New Hampshire,  Kansas, and NZ as well as UK. Their manuals are still as opaque as ever though their website is a lot better the last year. 

Their dealers are fine,  I bought mine from Farallon at full list except my MFD & Sonar Hub & transducers as those were not an item that the dealer added particular value to, and the online discounting was significant. I was happy to pay for the value of the consultation, and advice, and had the shakedown  

Maybe it's just you that has to pick a fight when there's none to be had?

Clearly humor is lost on you dude. 

 

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B&G Zeus 2 with Triton2 displays. Wind speed and depth package. Interfacing with a ray marine autopilot via the 0183 output from the Zeus 2.  System interfaces with a windows 10 computer running expedition with output displays, Garmin GNX 120 in cockpit. Works well.

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pussycat driftabout,

My sense of humor remains intact. Perhaps you should re-read from the beginning of the thread, context (unlike your taste is cars) is everything.

 

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I have a h5000 system that has never worked well or accurately. Unclear why.

One issue will get fixed and another immediately appears.

It was installed by some of the best, re tuned, installed again, etc etc.

Autopilot is the same. An old back up tillerpilot is lightyears better at steering the boat.

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I have had experience of B&G for the past 20 years. I have not done any repairs or changed any transducers what-so-ever, it hade just been working just fine.

On my previous yacht - an Arcona 355 - I had a B&G Network system that just did the task spendid. On my X-382 I had a B&G h1000 system (5 displays, AP-computer, AP-controll, and a couple of transducers, NMEA 0183 communication with the plotter) it also worked very well but it went down the drain after a lighting nearby. So I am now replacing it with a rather complete B&G Triton 2 system (six displays, one fixed AP-controll, one remote AP-controll, NAC300 AP computer, wireless wind transducer). So I am very satisfied with the quality of B&G. The first picture is parts of the old B&G h1000 system (AP-computer & controll is missing) the second one is the system I am installing right now. The very short video is after pairing the wireless wind transducer with the bluetooth receiver.

 

h1000.jpg

Triton.JPG

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three letters: NKE  you'll never go back.  and the pilot is 10x better

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On 3/3/2019 at 6:43 PM, rmb said:

three letters: NKE  you'll never go back.  and the pilot is 10x better

Thanks rmb, I was seriously starting to wonder if I was the only one for a moment. 

The only complaint I have is the cost of the Carbowind stick to lift the anonometer out of the updraft off the sails, and that’s my fault for being a tightarse, not NKE.

One criticism, their webinar training sessions are way too expensive.

And yes, the pilot’s awesome. 

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8 hours ago, longy said:

Then why have almost all the IMOCA's gone to B&G?

I think you have your facts wrong. 75% of all boats in the rdr were nke. IMOCa included. 

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  I admit my data base is poor - just from looking at on board pics, mostly from the last 'round the marble. BP & HB both had B&G, and IIRC many other in the lead groups. La Vags have B&G!

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On 2/20/2019 at 7:17 AM, Moonduster said:

First for a grossly inaccurate and vacuous generalization:

Various nationalities have stereotypical styles to their hardware

And now for the main course:

Tell me sportscar, what sailing instrumentation do you prefer? Can you name another manufacturer who's been at it for 50 years, has always sold the leading high-end instrumentation, has multiple product lines and the best displays and sensors on the market?

Could it be that the owners with which you're familiar have purchased expensive hardware at a steep discount and failed to have it professionally installed and calibrated and then, rather than deal with their poor choices, they just whine endlessly? Because certainly the vast majority of owners seem satisfied with their instrumentation ... maybe it's just you?

WTF?

No interest in other preferences, not relevant in these cases and I have no brand axe to grind. B & G have, as you so clearly point out, have had 50 years to get it right. Still working on it apparently. And not the best displays either as evidenced by the number of boats world-wide using superior alternatives.

I am talking about two top shelf B & G systems, many years apart, both owners paid full wack for the packages and both run top flight programs with their systems professionally installed by the top people in the field at the time. The product in both those two cases was unreliable or simply failed,  and not what I would expect of any top brand. And yes, I  have seen plenty of  B & G systems that do work as expected but that counts for nought  when you go offshore with the stuff and it continually lets you down....

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5 hours ago, longy said:

  I admit my data base is poor - just from looking at on board pics, mostly from the last 'round the marble. BP & HB both had B&G, and IIRC many other in the lead groups. La Vags have B&G!

At least all Volvo Ocean Race racing machines have had B&G for many years!?!?

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Instrument brands is one of the things I make notes for when doing dock walks. In prior years I have seen closer to a 50/50 mix but this year's RdR clearly favored NKE. It is a bit difficult to tell with certain IMOCAs because there are some custom implementations that mix and match components. 

I am not qualified to have an opinion on B&G since I have not used the equipment and only know what I hear from others. By that gauge, I hear more complaints on B&G but it could be a skew in the sample. I do know from using NKE for 18 years that I am a very satisfied customer. I have the occassional component failure but that should be expected for a high mileage and tough life. This year o sm replacing my 10 year old TL25 displays not because they need it but because the new multi function displays have more features. The old displays are still working fine after about 75,000 blue water miles. 

Just one guys opinion, but I fully endorse nke. 

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My H5000 system has never failed and does what it says in the tin. So I would recommend it.

NKE I have no experience with, but keep hearing good things about it. NKE looks a bit outdated in my opinion...

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See http://www.blur.se/2019/03/05/j-111-blur%C2%B3-bg-h5000-the-autopilot/ for some fairly comprehensive comments,

Cred to Peter for disclosing that he has a commercial connection to the local distributor.

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