Grith

Is Trailer Sailing Dying

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Hi All
There is lots of negativity around the demise of trailer sailing.
Personally I feel that the joys and advantages are just not promoted strongly enough to those hoards of caravan owning masses both grey nomads ( semi and actual retirees ) and families with kids.
I have posts going on other forums forums extolling the virtues of free water front camp sites on quiet rivers and bays instead of fighting for the last remaining sites in a relocated inner city low rise subdivision other wise know as a fully infested caravan (Trailer) parks.
There is a country song about "getting to know your neighbors much more than you might care too" which I feel is often applicable to these parks.
You also know the best spots are usually nailed down by the families that have been going to the same campground for years.
I read lots of negatives in sailing forums about the failings of certain yachts that are more closely targeted at "on water camping" rather than sailing fast or ocean passages but these are the type of yachts that may save trailer sailing. Sailing as a sport is generally moving to hi tech yachts and may shortly be upgraded again to foiling boats and the like which can never be converted to camper sailing or occasional extended cruising use. The other alternative seems to be huge cruising catamarans and monos that often rarely leave their again apartment block equivalent living marinas as they act as almost fixed floating holiday homes. 
"Back in the old days" you could buy a new or newish yacht that could happily combine competitive around the cans racing on weekends with a bit of camper sailing on holidays.
These days the stripped out racers will never perform that function and with the much raised expectations of the wives and kids mean that having no private loo, no standing headroom and long slow passages when sailing conditions aren't perfect ( ie. too much wind, too little wind, too large waves, too far to get home slowly etc.) mean you will likely struggle to get them on board these for holidays at all.
Caravans and Motorhomes have become luxury homes away from home and whilst this level of comfort in not viable on a trailable yacht few with partners and kids will get them out holidaying on many of the older trailable cramped trailable yachts unless they are the really adventurous types also happy hiking and tent camping.
I think these days the greatest advantage of trailable yachts is their portability and use for these camper sailing type holidays on a huge and varied number of destinations. Alternatively perhaps just on your favorite ones where it is prohibitive to have and store a yacht on water or in a marina for just one or only several uses a year.
Even weekend club sailing in a mast up yard is still a pain launching and retrieving versus having a pen if you only generally ever sail in one spot.
I feel the biggest advantage of a trailer sailer is trailering to beautiful and different places to sail, camp and stay and the second biggest is having access to shallow water areas and places locked away from conventional yachts by water depth, bridges and power lines and the like.
Big offshore capable trailable yachts sometimes have mast raising and lowering problems and deeper draft skegs also restricting them from these along with often very marginal towing capability.
Smaller trailable yachts are sometimes the equivalent of erecting a tent on the water which along with the other constraints of being on a tiny made made island can be a bit too much for many couples or families. The in between ones often are often neither fish nor fowl but this is in part due to their multi use versatility bringing compromises unliked by gun ho sailors but important to partners and kids.
Countering just having a motor boat for this purpose is the joy of moving under sail which is so different from the constant buzz of being under motor. This allows you to take in the sounds of the world and drink in the tranquility.
If you are not racing it is often just moving under sail that is all that is necessary to really enjoy this and arguments about ultimate sailing capability and the like are of little relevance unless racing.  
Most cruising is done on a reach or downwind as long upwind passages are often avoided when ever possible. In many cruising locations I have seen plenty of highly capable upwind yachts resorting to their outboards rather than endlessly tack up a passage between two islands or river banks or just wanting to reach the next destination on a time constraint.
Trailer sailing does need reselling to the masses rather than the constant focus in these forums on the relative advantages or foibles of particular yachts. Like the much maligned 'in some traditional circles' Roger Macgregor and his success in selling his power/sailers, the goal should be to engage as many new participants in messing around in ( sailing ) boats to spread our passion rather than compete over it criticizing others solutions and choices.  My prior longer term micro cruiser which was a 20 foot bridge deck catamaran ( Jarcat 6 ) caused enough concern amongst traditionalists that I am reluctant to even mention my current choice as I would prefer to keep the discussion on topic.
I hope to see you out there. Regards Graeme

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jesus

is there a readers digest version?

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Yes my son! Lets stop knocking peoples choices and get on with getting more people involved in sailing!

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trailer sailors began to die when the sports boats rocked up and the stability requirement for boats racing was.... overlooked

 

if trailer sailors want a comeback...... lets enforce the stability rule and bunk rules.....

 

 

 

sports boats....what sports boat.... just another gooo fly

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Apparently fewer millennials own cars, much less a suitable towing vehicle. Small 4 cylinder SUVs can't tow that much. And hard to store a trailer if you live in an apartment.

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38 minutes ago, Grith said:

Yes my son! Lets stop knocking peoples choices and get on with getting more people involved in sailing!

Atleast in America. Sailing as a sport in America is in no position to be picky and stuck up. Every sail I see, I am thrilled someone is enjoying some sort of sailing. A 2ksb is still sailing.

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48 minutes ago, Grith said:

Lets stop knocking peoples choices and get on with getting more people involved in sailing!

Yup. Attract folks by visibly having fun, and inviting newbies along to see that...

FWIW, slagging RV parks and caravans might fit under 'knocking other people's choices.'

I'm more swayed by folks having fun and showing how than I am by folks slagging others. There are a lot of excellent options out there... and sailors can come from surf, PWC, or even wake boats. There is more in common with members of the water tribe than separates us...  

Randii

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Forty years ago I had a Hartley TS16. It was backyard built but put together like a marine ply outhouse. It would sleep four. Two inside and two in the cockpit and we had a very fine wooden bucket that was the head. A single burner gas fitting let us make tea and coffee in the morning and whip up some pasta at night. Old foam cooler boxes would keep ice for two or three days.

We could tow it with an old Holden ute and, when we weren't sailing, it lived in the street. It was never vandalised in the decade I had it. (It didn't look too flash)

It was more fun than any yacht I've since had -- some of which cost 100 times more.

Being able to anchor in just over two feet of water meant we could go absolutely anywhere. No marina or mooring fees was a bonus. 

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2 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Apparently fewer millennials own cars, much less a suitable towing vehicle. Small 4 cylinder SUVs can't tow that much. And hard to store a trailer if you live in an apartment.

My trailer sailer only weighs 600odd kgs (1300 lbs) + trailer, plenty of 4 cylinder cars can tow that easily, she's got two quarter berths and a V, and punches well above her weight on the race course... but the (im)practicality of towing her home and keeping her in the street (neighbours would tire of that) means that if I didn't have access to a hardstand at the club I'd probably be more inclined to have a keel boat on a mooring.... or nothing!

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

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5d2ace15d669056f3ff33628f138390a--small-

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9 hours ago, Hooded Sailor said:

trailer sailors began to die when the sports boats rocked up and the stability requirement for boats racing was.... overlooked

 

if trailer sailors want a comeback...... lets enforce the stability rule and bunk rules.....

 

 

 

sports boats....what sports boat.... just another gooo fly

Hi

All I don’t think we have to change the rules to change sports boats they should be left to develop and those with outdated ones can race vintage championships like classic car racing. I think it’s more about recognising most of these boats without the capability to eventually turn into camping/cruising yachts will cease being attractive when sports boats develop further again and all turn foilers or similar eventually eliminating their desirability. Regardless  the point is sailing to race is only a part of the equation. 

Just increasing some design rules dictates poor development as those wanting racers will just work within the rules to go faster without really improving the usability outside racing. Unless the rules include min 4 full berths , standing headroom, enclosed toilet, stable at anchor etc etc ( making a lousy race boat) design rules just won’t work in my view. 

I think it’s about a creating a separate ownership path aimed at sailing and holidays with partners and children rather than the intense focus on racing for all yachts. Big cruising keelboats and cats are not judged mainly on the racing ability. 

Everybody judging each new trailable yacht on their sailing speed and racing capability is missing this point I feel. 

There is a far higher percentage of girls racing dingy’s than when I was young whilst far fewer people overall participating in the sport of sailing in total. 

I see huge numbers of new caravans and motorhomes being sold in Australia versus Trailable Yachts as they have responded to the market and been embraced yet back in the seventies I think the percentage difference in sales was far smaller. 

Have others got thoughts around this? 

Regards Graeme 

PS Yes I was trying to pinch some participants from caravanning and motor boating because sailing needs some of these people who at least are not sitting at home in front of the TV or computer. :) 

 

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The average RV owner and camper who turns their interest to the water is going to get a power boat and a jetski. 

Myself....I have often thought that a cruising folding trimaran would be fun.

J

 

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8 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

My trailer sailer only weighs 600odd kgs (1300 lbs) + trailer, plenty of 4 cylinder cars can tow that easily, she's got two quarter berths and a V, and punches well above her weight on the race course... but the (im)practicality of towing her home and keeping her in the street (neighbours would tire of that) means that if I didn't have access to a hardstand at the club I'd probably be more inclined to have a keel boat on a mooring.... or nothing!

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

Image may contain: sky and outdoor

18581463_10156103348441521_4128980376318843502_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent.fmel8-1.fna&oh=9fb89b9b9665971cf29c12c467beac73&oe=5D233744

Looks good.

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Both trailer sailing and Caravaning is dying slowly this side of the pond...

Why,?  a few years ago in bringing in Equalisation of the UK to the rest of the EU, a separate licence test is now required to tow anything over 750KG (1653pounds) all up including trailer.. 750Kg is also the maximum limit for an Unbraked trailer.

So you can now tow a dinghy or double laser trailer, but not anything much larger without the test. Unless like me you an old codger with grandfathers rights to tow.

I can have a vehicle and trailer of total all up weight 8250KG (8.1 imperial tons). However the private car limit is maximum 3.5 KG. So with my landrover of 1500Kg + 900kg of load in landrover+3.5kg trailer thats 5900KG or 5.8 Imerial tons all up weight.. There are higher limits if fitted with air brakes

So far at least they haven't introduced the trailer being a separate vehicle, requiring separate plates and Vehicle test as they do in some EU countries.. That's for car trailers, HGV  Artic trailers do need testing...

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Maybe the problem is the way sailors drive?

 

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31 minutes ago, The Q said:

Both trailer sailing and Caravaning is dying slowly this side of the pond...

Why,?  a few years ago in bringing in Equalisation of the UK to the rest of the EU, a separate licence test is now required to tow anything over 750KG (1653pounds) all up including trailer.. 750Kg is also the maximum limit for an Unbraked trailer.

So you can now tow a dinghy or double laser trailer, but not anything much larger without the test. Unless like me you an old codger with grandfathers rights to tow.

I can have a vehicle and trailer of total all up weight 8250KG (8.1 imperial tons). However the private car limit is maximum 3.5 KG. So with my landrover of 1500Kg + 900kg of load in landrover+3.5kg trailer thats 5900KG or 5.8 Imerial tons all up weight.. There are higher limits if fitted with air brakes

So far at least they haven't introduced the trailer being a separate vehicle, requiring separate plates and Vehicle test as they do in some EU countries.. That's for car trailers, HGV  Artic trailers do need testing...

So with Brexit we can expect a resurgence in caravaning and trailer-sailing in Britain? 

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I'm doing my part!  I just took delivery of this 4ksb on Sunday.  I wanted Speed, my wife wanted Comfort.  We both wanted Cheap.  Well, we got 2 of those things...

20190217_102942.jpg

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7 minutes ago, SkookumZac said:

I'm doing my part!  I just took delivery of this 4ksb on Sunday.  I wanted Speed, my wife wanted Comfort.  We both wanted Cheap.  Well, we got 2 of those things...

20190217_102942.jpg

Your first trip needs to be the Florida keys.Thats the perfect boat for that trip.

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1 hour ago, PaulK said:

So with Brexit we can expect a resurgence in caravaning and trailer-sailing in Britain? 

Sadly no not for the moment, they are  / have passed a law incorporating all past EU laws into our law.  Only after brexit, can they then start going through the laws choosing which ones to keep. I doubt having made a tighter law on trailers they will repeal it..

The other one I'm interested is at the moment we have a reduced tax on fuel for Boats, the EU are trying to put the full road tax onto boat fuel. The UK have been fighting it. If full brexit occurs on its Due date we should escape that one..

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2 hours ago, SkookumZac said:

I'm doing my part!  I just took delivery of this 4ksb on Sunday.  I wanted Speed, my wife wanted Comfort.  We both wanted Cheap.  Well, we got 2 of those things...

20190217_102942.jpg

Loose a few barnacles and you will achieve the next dimension of speed.  Great photo, congrats.

 

Awesome Bronco in the background... and dogs.

 

Well done Zac, well done indeed.

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2 hours ago, SkookumZac said:

I'm doing my part!  I just took delivery of this 4ksb on Sunday.  I wanted Speed, my wife wanted Comfort.  We both wanted Cheap.  Well, we got 2 of those things...

20190217_102942.jpg

Add my voice to the chorus of "well done." A good choice, these boats are under-appreciated although they do have some flaws. For example, look carefully into the hull bottom around the ballast tank valve.

I have some experience with these boats, and more with their smaller sister the H-19. Given the compromises of water ballast, I think they are head and shoulders above the crowd of usual trailer-sailers. Yours has room for the dogs!

post-30927-0-81067600-1436100440_thumb.jpg

FB- Doug

FB Doug

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23 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi All
There is lots of negativity around the demise of trailer sailing.
Personally I feel that the joys and advantages are just not promoted strongly enough to those hoards of caravan owning masses both grey nomads ( semi and actual retirees ) and families with kids.
I have posts going on other forums forums extolling the virtues of free water front camp sites on quiet rivers and bays instead of fighting for the last remaining sites in a relocated inner city low rise subdivision other wise know as a fully infested caravan (Trailer) parks.
There is a country song about "getting to know your neighbors much more than you might care too" which I feel is often applicable to these parks.
You also know the best spots are usually nailed down by the families that have been going to the same campground for years.
I read lots of negatives in sailing forums about the failings of certain yachts that are more closely targeted at "on water camping" rather than sailing fast or ocean passages but these are the type of yachts that may save trailer sailing. Sailing as a sport is generally moving to hi tech yachts and may shortly be upgraded again to foiling boats and the like which can never be converted to camper sailing or occasional extended cruising use. The other alternative seems to be huge cruising catamarans and monos that often rarely leave their again apartment block equivalent living marinas as they act as almost fixed floating holiday homes. 
"Back in the old days" you could buy a new or newish yacht that could happily combine competitive around the cans racing on weekends with a bit of camper sailing on holidays.
These days the stripped out racers will never perform that function and with the much raised expectations of the wives and kids mean that having no private loo, no standing headroom and long slow passages when sailing conditions aren't perfect ( ie. too much wind, too little wind, too large waves, too far to get home slowly etc.) mean you will likely struggle to get them on board these for holidays at all.
Caravans and Motorhomes have become luxury homes away from home and whilst this level of comfort in not viable on a trailable yacht few with partners and kids will get them out holidaying on many of the older trailable cramped trailable yachts unless they are the really adventurous types also happy hiking and tent camping.
I think these days the greatest advantage of trailable yachts is their portability and use for these camper sailing type holidays on a huge and varied number of destinations. Alternatively perhaps just on your favorite ones where it is prohibitive to have and store a yacht on water or in a marina for just one or only several uses a year.
Even weekend club sailing in a mast up yard is still a pain launching and retrieving versus having a pen if you only generally ever sail in one spot.
I feel the biggest advantage of a trailer sailer is trailering to beautiful and different places to sail, camp and stay and the second biggest is having access to shallow water areas and places locked away from conventional yachts by water depth, bridges and power lines and the like.
Big offshore capable trailable yachts sometimes have mast raising and lowering problems and deeper draft skegs also restricting them from these along with often very marginal towing capability.
Smaller trailable yachts are sometimes the equivalent of erecting a tent on the water which along with the other constraints of being on a tiny made made island can be a bit too much for many couples or families. The in between ones often are often neither fish nor fowl but this is in part due to their multi use versatility bringing compromises unliked by gun ho sailors but important to partners and kids.
Countering just having a motor boat for this purpose is the joy of moving under sail which is so different from the constant buzz of being under motor. This allows you to take in the sounds of the world and drink in the tranquility.
If you are not racing it is often just moving under sail that is all that is necessary to really enjoy this and arguments about ultimate sailing capability and the like are of little relevance unless racing.  
Most cruising is done on a reach or downwind as long upwind passages are often avoided when ever possible. In many cruising locations I have seen plenty of highly capable upwind yachts resorting to their outboards rather than endlessly tack up a passage between two islands or river banks or just wanting to reach the next destination on a time constraint.
Trailer sailing does need reselling to the masses rather than the constant focus in these forums on the relative advantages or foibles of particular yachts. Like the much maligned 'in some traditional circles' Roger Macgregor and his success in selling his power/sailers, the goal should be to engage as many new participants in messing around in ( sailing ) boats to spread our passion rather than compete over it criticizing others solutions and choices.  My prior longer term micro cruiser which was a 20 foot bridge deck catamaran ( Jarcat 6 ) caused enough concern amongst traditionalists that I am reluctant to even mention my current choice as I would prefer to keep the discussion on topic.
I hope to see you out there. Regards Graeme

bcf8f15d533461a57c9404c5ef4521a6.jpg

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2 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

She's an Elliott 7 from the 1990s, still a popular one design in Aus, unfortunately though she's the only one in Tasmania.

https://www.elliott-marine.com/assets/Uploads/elliott7-yacht-design-marine-greg-elliott.pdf

There is another called Livewire up at Beauty Point owned by Pete Brooks.  You guys should do a jaunt north for the Bay to Bay in May, get a proper Elliott fleet happening.

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3 hours ago, Svanen said:

bcf8f15d533461a57c9404c5ef4521a6.jpg

Hi Svanen I guess I am not going to find you reading the Old Man of The Sea or even a decent few hundred page novel. Reading, interpreting, picking a gem of knowledge for a huge boring PHD dissertation are all dying arts I completely understand.  Its all about one liners and instant gratification like your Donald on twitter. Whoops. sorry just figured out your in the UK.  ;) Regards Graeme 

 

Edited by Grith
Found poster was in another country.

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Hi SkookumZac 

Great purchase and hope you have lots of use and fun! Getting the hull cleaned would be great but you don't have to worry about a tiny extra bit of speed if your just getting out there! The world of sailing isn't all about racing or going fast. Regards Graeme 

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Hi Cazzate Looks more sport than cruiser (great looking yacht) but is that a square porthole in the hull? 

What is it? Regards Graeme 

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Few of these oz its a bull 7000 got two double bunks and caravan interior but can do mid teens no problems and yeah that’s a square port light for the “aft owners cabin”

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Hi Cazzate Just looked it up. Cool yacht. I have never seen one in the flesh do you know where the ones here in Aus are located. Its probably the best monohull cruiser/sports TS cross over I have seen. Regards Graeme 

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There is one in Albany I know of but not sure where there are others . There’s 200 or so in the UK and Europe but the class died quite awhile ago .

theres a few old threads on them in  sportboat anarchy 

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Hi Cazzate Thanks for that. Yes the problem with these sports boats is there is unlikely to be enough built and located in one spot to class race and when thrown in against really minimalist sports boats they are going to be still generally slower. However great to see a relatively new sports boat TS which didn't entirely abandon cruising use in the never ending quest for speed. My own yacht went the other way abandoning  the ultimate quest for speed for multi purpose use and cruising comfort.  I really admire the compromise the Bull 7000 has found however. Regards Graeme 

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Cheers thanks Graeme I’m happy with the boat for now but my dream trailer yacht would be a flying tiger 10 ! One day 

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Hi Cazzate I have just read some threads and was a WA sailer for many years myself. Lots of friends and family still there. I had what was a pretty early sports boat back in the late eighties and started sailing in a Hartley TS 16 fitted with a kite shute and an outrageously sized kite turning it into a trailer sailing skiff back in the late 60's and early 70's. Getting older now and planning to use a trailer sailer to reach places like the Kimberleys for weeks if not month's at a time so I have gone away from sports boats and competitive sailing. Regards Graeme 

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I'm new to trailer sailing, but it's such a relief to not have a big boat on a mooring during winter gales or worry about the boat being damaged at the dock or worry about how to pay for moorage or insurance.  So many other things are great about trailer sailing. It's just a lot easier to have a boat that I can move around easily and doesn't live in the water. The boat can be worked on in front of my shop (or wheeled into the shop). It can stay dry and doesn't need bottom paint, even if it's in the water for 6 or 8 weeks. It can be loaded and unloaded in front of my shop and all the sails and gear are stored in the shop when the boat isn't in use. I guess for me, it's about economics and security. I don't pay for moorage and I don't worry about the boat when it's not in use.

Luckily, I ended up with a boat (G-32) that can be set up very easily at the launch ramp. The stock design takes about 15 minutes. I built a new rig for the boat and I take about a half hour, but it's easy. The G-32 is a good study for anyone designing an easy to use trailer sailer (there are you tube videos) and it's a great boat besides.

46213685_2155349597821218_6948352045124419584_o (1).jpg

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Hi Russell. Yes I know them but have never seen one for sale here in Australia. Having owned and cruised on a Jarcat 6 for many years I obviously had a look at these when years later I was seeking an upgrade in size and comfort from the Jarcat. I went an entirely different direction altogether finally but they are definitely a very interesting solution again to the challenges of designing trailable yachts. Regards Graeme

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TSers are dying because we expect more as a culture. Putting a family in a fibreglass outhouse with sails for the weekend is only for a certain subset of sailors. 

Generally younger less well off people choose the TS route. When people get a bit if coin they get a keelboat or perhaps a multi that can take the family away.

racing is another story, people will race anything 

then theres where to park it, and you need to be near a reasonable ramp, then its the hour rigging/launching and the hour putting all back on the trailer.  

Up to about 18 feet and say 500kg all up, relatively easy to handle, bigger than that- its a mission 

 

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Hi Toad

While some of your points are very valid I am going to beg to differ on others. You can reach idyllic cruising destinations unobtainable in reasonable time frames by trailering to them rather than having to try to sail to them.

My next cruise is an over two weeks ocean slog each way yet will be dispatched in 2 to 3 days by car leaving two weeks holiday on board out of a three week school holidays total holiday. We wouldn't even get there and back in the time available never mind have a relaxing holiday in the Whitsundays. 

My 28 foot trailable yacht is very equivalent in luxury to many 30 foot plus keel boats due to its modern design. It features standing headroom an enclosed head with shower, two very generous doubles and 1.5 singles. It also has most of the smaller cruising keel boat extras like dodger, bimini, solar panels, 12 volt fridge, hot water etc. My yacht can be trailed without special conditions by a big 4x4 SUV without resorting to a truck and arrival to launch is under 40 minutes single handed. 30 minutes with trained help. 

Out of the big cities you can park in your drive, on your verge or at the local yacht club hard standing area for way less than pen or even mooring costs. Launch and retrieve times are a pain if doing day sailing basically in one location however even these are partially countered by no annual haul out and re-antifoul especially if in mast up on trailer storage at your club making launch and retrieve 15 minutes each. 

The ability to trail to other destinations widens the scope of use. Finally the very shallow draft ( mine 3 foot keel retracted) and availability to lower the mast whilst moving on water again opens up many cruising destinations also unavailable to conventional yachts. 

Finally I am reaching a stage where it is hopefully just 2 on board shortly and it is capable of being rigged, launched and managed by one if necessary. 

Regards Graeme

 

PS Hey Hokie it probably sails really great but you can keep that one for yourself if towing across the country never mind with a Mobile Garbage Bin! ( Sorry standing joke from originally an Italian Car Enthusiast with a Fix It Again Tony whose greatest racing rival successfully punted a highly modified MGB. 

 

 

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Girlfriend and I bought this 25 foot trailer sailor in August with no prior experience sailing. I think it's a good boat to learn on. The previous owner gave us a crash course in an afternoon and have had nothing  but happy days cruising Lake Superior.

Standing headroom inside, fridge, head, stove, running water, sleeping room for 4. It's all we need to be comfortable. Looking forward to spending our time off on it this summer.

IMG_20180908_130446.jpg

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Hi Canadian Mariner Good one, go for it. Fair winds and great sailing. Well done. :)

Out of interest what is she? Sorry us Aussies often have problems identifying Canadian and American Yachts as we don't see that many over here.

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Hi Third Reef That sucks. It’s only $150 per annum at my club. Are you counting the annual haul out and re anti foul as well though in your calculations. Regards Graeme 

 

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2 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi Canadian Mariner Good one, go for it. Fair winds and great sailing. Well done. :)

Out of interest what is she? Sorry us Aussies often have problems identifying Canadian and American Yachts as we don't see that many over here.

She's an American Mariner 7.5. Not a very common boat. Built in 1979 by American Mariner Industries.

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

Hi ,

Regards Graeme 

 

Hi,

Regards Fiji

 

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Hi Fiji Thanks for joining in. :) 

Hi Canadian Mariner Just looked at the specs on your American Mariner 7.5. Nice. Have fun. 

My rather left field cruising yacht pictured below. Definately not an around the cans sports boat. LOL.

38CCA745-8695-46E5-AD3E-3FA08D880521.jpeg

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By what standard is trailer sailing dying? I don’t see it in my area. There are lots of cool tralerable boats at my club. 

For a family cruising trailer sailer you really can’t beat an F-boat

 

BA6375C4-94B2-45F2-89D6-5A87EB3CDC1A.jpeg

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I'm keepin it real...Just sold my SR 21 to move into an Elliott 770 (both lifting keel trailer sailors). No pic yet of the Elliott.

 

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Hi Mizzmo My immediately prior yacht was a Farrier 680Trailer Tri with stern cabin. Great boat but too small to consider living onboard for several months as I am currently planning. Yours looks a bit bigger and more modern than my TT. My statement about dying out is backed up by our biggest Trailer Sailer annual event here in Australia the Marley Point Overnight dropping in numbers from 680 participants in 86 to just over 100 last year. Just started this thread trying to revive some interest as all those yachts must be out there somewhere. I would have loved to consider a Dragonfly 28 for long term trailable cruising but they were way out of my budget range. Regards Graeme 

 

2492BB89-E249-417C-B58C-0343D736B6D4.jpeg

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When I retire I would like to put together a fast, light, beachable trailer sailer for northern adventures.  Would have to be light enough for trailering on dirt roads, loading on and off trains and ships etc.  I think it would be cool to do multi week adventures to places like the Labrador Sea, and the Mckenzie Delta.  I think something like a B&B Core Sound 17 Mark III would be ideal.  

http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17mk3/

For now though, I have two small kids and limited time off, so short hops in protected waters are how we are spending most of my vacation time.  I have a Bay Hen from the 80s that handles cruising in those conditions pretty nicely.  900 pounds, good weight for trailering, fast set up at the boat launch.  I do sometimes envy the speed some of the newer trailer sailers can hit under sail.

Bayhendownwind.png

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41 minutes ago, TBW said:

When I retire I would like to put together a fast, light, beachable trailer sailer for northern adventures.  Would have to be light enough for trailering on dirt roads, loading on and off trains and ships etc.  I think it would be cool to do multi week adventures to places like the Labrador Sea, and the Mckenzie Delta.  I think something like a B&B Core Sound 17 Mark III would be ideal.  

http://bandbyachtdesigns.com/cs17mk3/

For now though, I have two small kids and limited time off, so short hops in protected waters are how we are spending most of my vacation time.  I have a Bay Hen from the 80s that handles cruising in those conditions pretty nicely.  900 pounds, good weight for trailering, fast set up at the boat launch.  I do sometimes envy the speed some of the newer trailer sailers can hit under sail.

Bayhendownwind.png

Well, the Bay Hen has some limits due to it's traditional sharpie form, but it's pretty fast sailer for the most part. One of the issues, it's difficult to rig them with a boom vang and the big mainsail sheds power. I think most owners don't mind because they are rather tender/tippy boats anyway.

I've worked on some designs of this type, as I am also interested in a boat in this size/usage range.... except for the cold thing...... and one of my targets is a boat that is practical to row instead of being dependent on a small outboard.

FB- Doug

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Russells', G32, has a cool pedal drive that can be seen on the R2AK forums and PT Watercraft.  My space rental for my G32, was $180. per month.  My town[Goleta] made it illegal to park it on the street.  Space rental and ramp fees were my biggest cost, on an otherwise perfect adventure.  Most of the berthed boats seldom go out, so I don't know how to gauge wether trailer sailing is dying.  It's different, but then I started pre fiberglass.  If you want to play, you find a way.  Aloha, Guerdon.

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1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Well, the Bay Hen has some limits due to it's traditional sharpie form, but it's pretty fast sailer for the most part. One of the issues, it's difficult to rig them with a boom vang and the big mainsail sheds power. I think most owners don't mind because they are rather tender/tippy boats anyway.

 

She is quick in light air, but runs out of reef points and gets ornery to sail in higher winds.  I suppose a third reef point would help with that.

Gaff.png

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1 minute ago, TBW said:

She is quick in light air, but runs out of reef points and gets ornery to sail in higher winds.  I suppose a third reef point would help with that.

Gaff.png

An effective vang would make her a lot easier to steer in strong winds, but you'd have to be more careful of the gallows frame.... or fold it down while sailing. They come in really handy, I know!

FB- Doug

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I'm one of these crazy folk that enjoy repairing, and see more enjoyment in fixing an old boat up then going sailing. It's kept me from going insane. Toss in a stubborn streak of independence, and I can only ever see myself trailer sailing. Being able to load the boat on the trailer, store it at home if need be, and tow to another body of water has too many advantages in my eyes.

Got a dinghy in the backyard that'll be going to the local sailing school as soon as I've completed the repairs on it; hoping to exchange it for some lessons, instead of simply donating it. There's an O'Day 19' in the front yard; I should be completing the fiberglass work on the hull & deck by late spring. Standing rigging and trailer need some attention, then she'll be on the water. Also eyeing an old '65 Tylercraft 24' twin keel down on Long Island, free with the purchase of the trailer. She's in rough shape, but she'll keep me busy on the weekends for a few years when I'm not sailing the O'Day.

I'm not crazy enough to consider myself counted among the majority, however. I'll never see my money back on these boats, but neither will those folk pouring dollars into the tanks of their power boats and jetskis, or drinking them down at bars. Most have significant others that intercede on their behalf; mine left last fall, so I'm finally free :D. I'm going to do my thing, and the rest of society can either follow along and go do their thing. 

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8 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi Third Reef That sucks. It’s only $150 per annum at my club. Are you counting the annual haul out and re anti foul as well though in your calculations. Regards Graeme 

 

No, but there also is the cost of replacing a corroded trailer every 10 years or so which kind of equals the haul out cost in the long term.

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This thread needs music...

 

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We lose our ramp access right beside the clubhouse at SQYC, a conference centre or something is to be built there. Access with projected growth, is an issue with the replacement at Nexen Beach is limited by parking space to a few cars with trailers for sailboats only. There will be no other parking on the Nexen Lands as the point will be filled to the brim with a Hardiplank village at buildout. Parking is already an issue here. Sailors will be forced to launch the Laser and fight for a spot downtown. The highway backs up with parked cars on a summer sunday afternoon to deter day trippers.

Kiters have a great launch spot on the dike for now, but that training dike is a sore spot with the enviros, as it acts like a conveyor belt to deliver young salmon to the mouths of fish and seal.

That leaves Porteau Cove as the nearest ramp in the fiord to fight over parking with the displaced fishing and powerboat crowd.

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40 minutes ago, Third Reef said:

No, but there also is the cost of replacing a corroded trailer every 10 years or so which kind of equals the haul out cost in the long term.

Or you could get a good aluminum trailer which will not corrode but will require new running gear every 10 years or so.....

You can't win and you can't break even.... just decide which particular brand of sin you prefer, and try not to go broke reveling in it

FB- Doug

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15 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Or you could get a good aluminum trailer which will not corrode but will require new running gear every 10 years or so.....

You can't win and you can't break even.... just decide which particular brand of sin you prefer, and try not to go broke reveling in it

FB- Doug

Exactly, my point being that keelboat vrs trailer sailer costs are not as different as a lot of people might think. 

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Hi All Glad to see the thread got some people talking and thinking anyway. :) 

For me the key issue isn’t the comparative costs between a keel boat and a Trailer Sailer its the access to the huge range of cruising grounds many of which you cannot even enjoy with a keel boat. Those few you can access with a keel boat or big cat require the long, boring and sometimes challenging passage sails to even get there before enjoying that new location. That’s some people’s thing but not not mine. 

Many here in Australia ( especially in the past) used to return each year to the same holiday home or campground and never look for new experiences. I love going to different places in my yacht and seeing and experiencing different things. Having my cruising yacht on a trailer allows this. 

Mooring costs versus trailable costs may not be that different but for most marina costs are much higher again. 

Also the wear and tear and general deterioration of your yacht sitting in (usually) salt water permenately go beyond the annual haul out and antifoul. 

Like The Lucky One above I also enjoy working on my yacht in my front yard though not rebuild and/or major renovate just being able to do repairs and upgrades with my workshop and tools to hand. 

Sad to hear about loss of access to ramps etc which hasn’t been a big problem here in Australia with some facilities actually being improved. More boaters,  more voters and fight perhaps needed. 

Regards Graeme 

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12 minutes ago, Grith said:

Many here in Australia ( especially in the past) used to return each year to the same holiday home or campground and never look for new experiences. I love going to different places in my yacht and seeing and experiencing different things. Having my cruising yacht on a trailer allows this. 

Choices are good. I enjoyed exploring local and mountain lakes in the 90s with a beach cat... and have enjoyed hitting the same lake for the last several years with different beach cats. Each has benefits... and while I'm familiar with my local lake, mast-up storage gets me to the water quicker, and familiarity has not built to boredom.

Slips are $8-10 per foot near me in the Delta, but decent availability allows me to use when/what I want for the big boat, and then trailer the rest of the time.
With mast-up storage on the local lake, I've gotta buy by the year, so it is less flexible.

Like some others, I enjoy working on my boats, and that's easier with a trailer at the house (though I'm not sure my neighbors love that as much as I do).
Sidenote on trailers -- washdown, service, and paint can extend trailer life. I do that in my driveway, too. 

Randii

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Beneteau buying Seascape seems like a good sign that trailer sailing isn't too dead.  It seems like Seascape primarily or only makes trailerable racer/cruisers.  Seascape/First 27 is a pretty cool looking boat in particular, and is sold both for ocean racing and cruising.

Like most city dwellers I don't have a place to store a boat or any use for a vehicle large enough to tow a boat, so a trailerable boat wouldn't really save me money compared to paying for moorage.  Luckily I live in an area with really cool cruising grounds, so it's hard to get bored and there isn't really a problem with deliveries.  I'd have to drive to Mexico (2-3 days away) to find anything similar.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Third Reef said:

Exactly, my point being that keelboat vrs trailer sailer costs are not as different as a lot of people might think. 

I feel like this may vary by location.  I am in the great lakes region, fresh water.  I switched from keel boat to trailer sailer a few years back, mostly as an easy way to access new cruising grounds, but I have noticed significant cost savings.

My local sailing club is pretty competitive with local marinas.  Prices given are for a 21 foot boat.  Membership $600/year.  Seasonal slip fee $1100/year.  Winter storage $200/year.  So, fixed cost without maintenance $1900/year.

Trailer sailer cost.  $40/year for my local conservation areas boat ramps which are scattered over about 50 miles, the nearest is 3/4 of a mile away.  $200/year for unlimited moorage at the local national parks docks.  Maybe $100/year in trailer maintenance.  I did new bearings, hubs, rims and tire last year for about $300, but did nothing in the previous 2 years.

So, cost comparison works out to $1900/year for a 21 ft boat at the local sailing club vs $340/year for the same boat on a trailer in my side yard. 

 

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Hi All

Great to see some interest out there in Trailer Sailing and really fantastic to have Canadian Mariner and SkookumZac especially who are obviously young and doing it cruising style with significant other half’s. There are two major sides to the Trailer Sailer scene ( with overlap at times ) being racing which appears to be going further and further towards almost dingy style sports boats ( been there done that) and speed over comfort and those seeking a sailing cruising/camping experience. 

They just have different objectives and different players and both should encourage each other as we are all in it together wanting good ramp and storage access, lovely places to sail and enjoy getting out there. 

Regards Graeme 

 

 

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Agree with the Seascape post above, I’m contemplating buying a boat this year and as I live near the east coast of the UK there is a lot of shallow water, rivers and estuaries to explore, shallow draught and trailerability make this a lot easier. Feels like the shorthanded distance racing theme is growing, these boats will be great for that. This looks a lot of fun: https://www.thinkseascape.com/sse/challenge-2019/

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20 minutes ago, Crossy said:

Agree with the Seascape post above, I’m contemplating buying a boat this year and as I live near the east coast of the UK there is a lot of shallow water, rivers and estuaries to explore, shallow draught and trailerability make this a lot easier. Feels like the shorthanded distance racing theme is growing, these boats will be great for that. This looks a lot of fun: https://www.thinkseascape.com/sse/challenge-2019/

Nice link. The video section is very good. Video 2 is interesting, thx, want to post that in the r2ak thread.

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Hi All I note a lot of older US TS’s have shallow fixed keels as well as centreboards or swing keels. That is much less common here in Australia. Always wondered why the difference? 

Typical hardstanding lineup here with a couple of cruisers a big cruiser/racer crossover and an RL24 being a very old but highly regarded racing oriented camper sailer. The photo is a bit weighted to the bigger end as the rest of the row includes a farrier 720 TT, a little open with cubby cabin sports boat, mid sized cruiser/racer Sonata 7 equipped for extended cruising,  a Macgregor 26m, a Ross 780 Cruiser/ Racer and some others. Regards Graeme 

7DF15D97-C96A-4D71-8E2C-109FB9064FEB.jpeg

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15 hours ago, Grith said:

 

 

PS Hey Hokie it probably sails really great but you can keep that one for yourself if towing across the country never mind with a Mobile Garbage Bin! ( Sorry standing joke from originally an Italian Car Enthusiast with a Fix It Again Tony whose greatest racing rival successfully punted a highly modified MGB. 

 

 

You would be surprised how easily a Moore 24 is to tow. I used to tow one with a 1978 Toyota 4cyl pickup around town, no problem. Very light, and yes, the fleet is going strong.

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17 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi All I note a lot of older US TS’s have shallow fixed keels as well as centreboards or swing keels. That is much less common here in Australia. Always wondered why the difference? 

 

7DF15D97-C96A-4D71-8E2C-109FB9064FEB.jpeg

On some boats, like the Canadian CS 22, the stub keel contains the swing keel so the swing keel trunk doesn't intrude into the cabin interior.

 

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Hi TBW Yes I have heard that quoted as a reason before. I don’t think it’s a real issue with a well designed interior and always though it was more about stability ratings and getting the lead as low as possible to the detriment perhaps of beaching, shallow launching ramps and drying out in tidal areas. Below is a photo of my built in centrecase acting as both a table and four bottle wine cellar under lift up lid in the centre. The table sides fold down for access as well. Regards Graeme

8C1DD035-D77C-441C-A4B5-A667951F3B17.png

7601815D-FFC2-4F10-BEA3-4E0B2B5841FA.png

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1 hour ago, msvphoto said:

You would be surprised how easily a Moore 24 is to tow. I used to tow one with a 1978 Toyota 4cyl pickup around town, no problem. Very light, and yes, the fleet is going strong.

Hi msvphoto A good friend of mine currently sails Solings in Perth. They crane these in off their road trailer or jinker from a wharf at his club. Red Witches were very popular 20 foot trailable yachts in Australia in the seventies with non retractable deep keels and launching these meant swimming and a totally submerged trailer with huge long snatch strap running back to the car. Many launching ramps couldn’t accommodate these yachts at all. The Moore 24 looks like a wicked upwind yacht but I cannot imagine towing one across country except perhaps to compete in a one class regatta. :) 

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46 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi TBW Yes I have heard that quoted as a reason before. I don’t think it’s a real issue with a well designed interior and always though it was more about stability ratings and getting the lead as low as possible to the detriment perhaps of beaching, shallow launching ramps and drying out in tidal areas. Below is a photo of my built in centrecase acting as both a table and four bottle wine cellar under lift up lid in the centre. The table sides fold down for access as well. Regards Graeme

8C1DD035-D77C-441C-A4B5-A667951F3B17.png

7601815D-FFC2-4F10-BEA3-4E0B2B5841FA.png

Yes, my boats trunks are in the cabin as well.  but the CS 22 was designed in the 1960s.  They really do have nice cabins for a 22 ft boat of that age, they are one of my favourite trailer sailers.  They are pretty good sailers, with 1100 lbs/half their displacement and a 5 ft draft swing keel.  They are stiff boats that sail well with nice cabins.  CS22s were built in Toronto, which is on the great lakes.  No tides and very few places to beach on Lake Ontario.  A lot of Canadian boats in the 60s, 70s and 80s were built in or near Toronto or Montreal, neither of which has tides.  

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 8:57 AM, ALL@SEA said:

She's an Elliott 7 from the 1990s, still a popular one design in Aus, unfortunately though she's the only one in Tasmania.

https://www.elliott-marine.com/assets/Uploads/elliott7-yacht-design-marine-greg-elliott.pdf

Arguably as a follow up to the Young rocket and Elliot 780 also the boat that triggered the beginning of the end of Australian Trailer Sailors.

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22 minutes ago, SCARECROW said:

Arguably as a follow up to the Young rocket and Elliot 780 also the boat that triggered the beginning of the end of Australian Trailer Sailors.

Sorry accidental double post that I cannot figure out how to delete.

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Hi Scarecrow

Are you saying that these early sports boat type TS's started the decline as they were so much faster than the other more cruising oriented TS's? I had a custom built sports built flyer in the late eighties myself and they did run away from the rest of the fleet back at that time but I feel it is always challenging to race in mixed yacht fleets as some designs are just going to be so much faster. The only exception is in strictly one design style racing and even then in many cases the deepest pockets often win if in relatively experienced hands.

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Norse Horse said:

We lose our ramp access right beside the clubhouse at SQYC, a conference centre or something is to be built there. Access with projected growth, is an issue with the replacement at Nexen Beach is limited by parking space to a few cars with trailers for sailboats only. There will be no other parking on the Nexen Lands as the point will be filled to the brim with a Hardiplank village at buildout. Parking is already an issue here. Sailors will be forced to launch the Laser and fight for a spot downtown. The highway backs up with parked cars on a summer sunday afternoon to deter day trippers.

Kiters have a great launch spot on the dike for now, but that training dike is a sore spot with the enviros, as it acts like a conveyor belt to deliver young salmon to the mouths of fish and seal.

That leaves Porteau Cove as the nearest ramp in the fiord to fight over parking with the displaced fishing and powerboat crowd.

Less ramps, and more commercial traffic leaves sailboats in a weird spot, especially if you’re launching a single handed dinghy- what do you do with the dinghy if there’s no room at the tiny waiting docks while you take the trailer back and then sprint back and have  the temerity to put the sail up etc.

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Hi Amati This isn't the first time that I am thankful for being over here rather than over there. You think its a problem with a dingy I cannot imagine what it would be like with a 28 foot monster yacht in those circumstances. Graeme.

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3 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi Scarecrow

Are you saying that these early sports boat type TS's started the decline as they were so much faster than the other more cruising oriented TS's? I had a custom built sports built flyer in the late eighties myself and they did run away from the rest of the fleet back at that time but I feel it is always challenging to race in mixed yacht fleets as some designs are just going to be so much faster. The only exception is in strictly one design style racing and even then in many cases the deepest pockets often win if in relatively experienced hands.

The fact is trailer sailors fleets have declined because all Australian sailing fleets have declined.

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