Grith

Is Trailer Sailing Dying

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On 2/21/2019 at 12:50 PM, Alex W said:

That is so cheap. From Shilshole in Seattle (pretty much the only choice for dry moorage with launch cranes):

Dry Moorage 15' - 35'

$162.32 - $378.75

 

30'

$434.66

 

alex

On 2/21/2019 at 12:55 PM, justsomeguy! said:

 

Agree with Alex W.

Monthly/yearly membership dues?

 

Yea, I should have said dues are about $1,000/year.. So based on that, my club is a good deal considering I can launch and haul when I wan and the hoist is working. It does have a 4,500 limit and the depth is an issue for modern boats. Even my 80's Zap at 5.5', I can not launch and haul at low tides. Certain times of the year they are not too extreme.

But this does not help those at the commercial yard. They are screwed and it hurts.

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On 2/20/2019 at 11:32 AM, Steam Flyer said:

An effective vang would make her a lot easier to steer in strong winds, but you'd have to be more careful of the gallows frame.... or fold it down while sailing. They come in really handy, I know!

FB- Doug

I have considered a couple of options. 

A rigid boom vang I think should work, but is pricey.

Or, I think if I tensioned the topping lift against the boom vang at sufficient height to clear the gallows, that could work too.  I bought some blocks and line last fall to put the vang together, but I havent tried it yet.   Maybe this spring.

I am not getting rid of or modifying the gallows.  They are just too useful.  Mast crutch, holy shit handle, camera mount :)

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8 hours ago, TBW said:

A rigid boom vang I think should work, but is pricey.

You can make one. A Boomkicker is nice but it's just a piece of plastic of the right length with a calibrated bend to it. So is the right piece or pieces of PVC.

You'd have to endure some derision, of course. Your boat might be nominated for Admiration by the Society.

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I take my boat out at least once per week and sometimes 2-3 times per week depending on the weather and that ugly word... work schedule. But after 4 different boats over the last 25 years all sitting in slips. I made the switch to a trailerable boat. It has been almost 2 years and couldn't be happier with the decision.

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Hi All For those who feel that big TS’s are too much hassle. We are sleeping onboard on land in the hard stand area after the club cancelled the night race due to 30 knots plus winds. Races for both the Annabel’s Flying Ant and the TS’s again today so we didn’t want the long drive home and back to the club.  With standing headroom, comfortable beds, toilet, hot and cold drinks, food and charging for both Annabels drawing pad and our phones we just stayed the night. I had to work yesterday, so we hooked up the TS at 3.30pm ( I had it at home doing cruising mods on the front lawn)  and drove the 1 hour 15 over the mountain and up to the club. We arrived at about 4.15pm and in very strong winds had the boat rigged and  ready to launch by 4.50pm. The night  race was called off at 5pm. It had been our intention to sleep on the yacht on the jetty after the night race anyway. When you have a large comfortable live onboard equivilent yacht where bedding, dry and long life food and much stuff can be left permenantly onboard the TS performs in a different way from a day Sailer. It blew its socks off last night and we had periods of intensely heavy rain but the forecast states better conditions for sailing today. :) 

 

 

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I just finished building a 20’outrigger canoe, and am looking forward to some good TS soon.

Ive got a couple of free ramps nearby. One on the Delaware River, one on a state park pond 40 mins away, the Chessy Bay is 40mins to Elk Neck St park, but there’s a fee for out of staties.

Ive got to sort out some unique problems like quickly setting up the mast & rigging, so an easily fitted storage solution for the mast while the amas are folded is key.

Another I think I’ve finessed is securing the boat to the trailer while the ama is out, it overbalances unless strapped down. A strap wide on the trailer under the safety ama on the other side led forward to the winch post  sorted that out.

As soon as it’s warm, I’ll go out and have some fun sailing, but for me half the fun is sorting out the details with cool solutions.

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I admire trailer sailers. In the 70's, when I was in my twenties, we trailer daysailed a Sunfish and then a 15' daysailer on Biscayne Bay. At 70, it's not for me, but I have very good memories of those days.

Just make sure you use it often. That is the challenge. If it's too hard to rig and launch or if it requires too much crew, those can be obstacles.

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Hi Bull City I have good friends just winding down from their 3-6 month  trips on their TS every year having got into their eighties still doing it. There are huge numbers of great smaller TS’s be it day sailers, racers or camper sailers for those a little younger. My friends started in their fifties having not even been sailers but with a big solid Court 750 being a comfortable 25 foot TS complete with Dodger, Bimini, Tiller pilot, fridge, bbq, solar panels etc. These TS’s are not a tiny racers or campers. 30 years later they are winding down and are amongst the most highly regarded sailing adventurers you would wish to meet. I have another friend around your age who solo’s an RL28 ( generally in company)  on multi week adventure cruises. Part of the secret is putting some thought into systems to manage mast raising, single handing and creating a mini full cruising yacht with trailering ability to get you to places too long, challenging or many even impossible to sail to in a conventional yacht.  

Thanks for your your contribution to the thread but you really aren’t too old. :) 

Kind Regards Graeme 

 

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Not sailboat-specific since I bought it for my powerboats but I just got one of these:

4Ucam Digital Wireless Camera + 7" Monitor for Bus, RV, Trailer, Motor Home, 5th Wheels and Trucks Backup or Rear View

I mounted the camera to a piece of wood with non-slip rubber on the bottom. I put a cigarette lighter plug on to power the camera and can put it on the back of either boat and plug it into the boat outlet.

The display plugs into a cigarette lighter outlet in the car and sticks to the windshield.

I have only tested it to see that it works. I love backup cameras in cars and sticking one on the back of a boat is sure to be an improvement. I have to make a 90 degree turn and hit a pretty narrow slot or else move little boats. I'm too lazy to move little boats, so...

 

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Hi Tom Have you tested it on road. I tried a similar unit for my tow across Australia last year and the range wasn’t good enough to reach from the back of my 28 foot yacht to my dash board despite all we could do mounting wise to optimise the signal transmission. We got occassionally pictures and lots of annoying static and gave up on it in the end. Regards Graeme 

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On 2/24/2019 at 8:24 PM, Grith said:

Hi Tom Have you tested it on road. I tried a similar unit for my tow across Australia last year and the range wasn’t good enough to reach from the back of my 28 foot yacht to my dash board despite all we could do mounting wise to optimise the signal transmission. We got occassionally pictures and lots of annoying static and gave up on it in the end. Regards Graeme 

Not yet and my only test wasn't really complete. I was using the display in my golf cart, which was handy and has a 12 volt source. The range was well over 100 feet, which surprised me. But since I was not using a car, no interference from things like alternator, etc.

It will get the real test this weekend when I use it to put a boat away.

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Hi Tom 

Thanks I will be interested in the outcome as I had exactly the same idea for my recent right across Australia tow but the unit I choose just wasn't up to the task despite similar claims from the manufacturer about its range and capability. 

It would have been fantastic to have seen the huge prime mover and dog road trains approaching at speed from behind when we were doing around 55-60 mph towing the huge yacht and be able to prepare for their overtaking maneuver as they were travelling at 65-70mph. Also it would have been good to see the smaller vehicle right up your behind and therefore be able to pull over for them to let them pass when appropriate.  

Regards Graeme

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On 2/26/2019 at 12:49 PM, Importunate Tom said:

Not yet and my only test wasn't really complete. I was using the display in my golf cart, which was handy and has a 12 volt source. The range was well over 100 feet, which surprised me. But since I was not using a car, no interference from things like alternator, etc.

It will get the real test this weekend when I use it to put a boat away.

Hi Tom I hope your test on the rear view camera worked out as mine was a bit of a fail! It just couldn’t get adequate signal strength and quality along with too much shake to be useful. Regards Graeme 

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I've never done much cruising, but I'd been dreaming of doing this trip for a few years now, and it was (a small) part of the reason I bought a trailer sailer. 

Drove the 160 km (100miles) from Hobart to Strathgordon after an early knock off Friday afternoon and stayed at the motel. Launched Saturday morning, and set off with no destination in mind. There are no charts, and no mobile reception for the most part. We had a google satellite image, and a scan of an old map saved to a phone to give us an idea of where we were... 

Arrived back at Strathgordon at noon Monday for a relaxed de-rig an trip home, arriving back at the club before 5pm Monday.

The trip may be ticked off the bucket list, but I'm already planning to do it again, as we hardly scratched the surface... We did have a decent sailing breeze at times, but the camera came out when it was lighter...

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Lake+Pedder/@-42.9026063,145.8924941,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xaa6f02f2519e29ad:0x2a03c94e1bbb3530!8m2!3d-42.9531822!4d146.1974107

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Hi Guys Looks a great trip and one I would like to do if the Tassie government ever includes Trailer Sailers in the Spirit of Tasmania Freight equalization scheme. I am planning to get across to Tassie regardless in my Imexus but may have to do it the hard way across Bass Straight by sea so wouldn't have the trailer available to get up to Lake Pedder. I have backpacked around there many years ago and it is very beautiful and precisely what I have been promoting as places like this a TS can get to sail in whilst no other cruising yacht generally can. I raced yachts for many years then got into wilderness experiences and white water kayaking. My ex partners back problems then led me to accessing wilderness exploration via TS as she could no longer carry the loads required.

Regards Graeme.

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Yeah, the TT line is massively overpriced, I 1/2 considered buying interstate, but at a % of purchase price, transport was exorbitant. I'm not sure if there are other options for getting boat/trailer combos over. 

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On 3/6/2019 at 2:31 AM, Grith said:
On 2/25/2019 at 8:49 PM, Importunate Tom said:

Not yet and my only test wasn't really complete. I was using the display in my golf cart, which was handy and has a 12 volt source. The range was well over 100 feet, which surprised me. But since I was not using a car, no interference from things like alternator, etc.

It will get the real test this weekend when I use it to put a boat away.

Hi Tom I hope your test on the rear view camera worked out as mine was a bit of a fail!

My test was aborted before it began.

Over Thanksgiving, I had bought a brand new handheld spotlight from West Marine. I had played with it a bit and decided to recharge it while running my pontoon boat. The 12 volt outlet charger was broken! Straight out of the box! Didn't matter, I used the AC one later in the day on shore.

This past weekend, after giving my phone a major workout photographing crazy WaterTribers, I went to charge it using the 12 volt outlet on the boat.

My inverter w/USB outlet, which worked just fine in my car a month ago, was also broken!

I called my friend Pat, who brought me another inverter that he knew to be working. I plugged it in and that one was broken too!

It was at about this point that I began to suspect the unlikely truth: my 12 volt outlet on the boat has a poor (but not gone) connection.

There's about 3 feet of brand new tinned wire running from it to a bus bar with good heat shrinked connectors that I JUST INSTALLED. The chances of a failure in that little electrical system are about zero. Yes, there's a fuse in a brand new holder, and yes, I checked that too.

I still don't know why it isn't working. Also on my list of things that can't possibly fail, but have: the brand new battery switch on one of my other boats. Intermittent power from battery two.

This did not fail.

53110535_10216120653723123_2181559875576

But I can't use it with the boat bouncing around on the trailer so I'm going to have to fix my outlet.

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10 hours ago, ALL@SEA said:

I've never done much cruising, but I'd been dreaming of doing this trip for a few years now, and it was (a small) part of the reason I bought a trailer sailer. 

Drove the 160 km (100miles) from Hobart to Strathgordon after an early knock off Friday afternoon and stayed at the motel. Launched Saturday morning, and set off with no destination in mind. There are no charts, and no mobile reception for the most part. We had a google satellite image, and a scan of an old map saved to a phone to give us an idea of where we were... 

Arrived back at Strathgordon at noon Monday for a relaxed de-rig an trip home, arriving back at the club before 5pm Monday.

The trip may be ticked off the bucket list, but I'm already planning to do it again, as we hardly scratched the surface... We did have a decent sailing breeze at times, but the camera came out when it was lighter...

https://www.google.com.au/maps/place/Lake+Pedder/@-42.9026063,145.8924941,10z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m5!3m4!1s0xaa6f02f2519e29ad:0x2a03c94e1bbb3530!8m2!3d-42.9531822!4d146.1974107

Image may contain: sky, ocean, mountain, outdoor, nature and water

Image may contain: boat, sky, mountain, outdoor, nature and water

Image may contain: 1 person, mountain, sky, ocean, outdoor, nature and water

Image may contain: mountain, sky, ocean, outdoor, nature and water

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Great photos All@Sea, looks like a beautiful spot to sail.

Thanks for sharing!

SB

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Hi Tom Bummer. Bloody electrical systems. :) I have just spent hours over the last couple of months upgrading my yachts battery capacity and electrical systems also so  sympathise. Let me know if you get the back of boat rear view camera system working. It seemed such a good solution being a wireless link from a camera mounted on the back of my boat back to a screen on my windscreen that would let me see if I was holding anyone up or had some monster roadtrain bearing down on me. In my case distance from the car, interference from wire rigging and jolting from the trailer suspension all combined to make the system I purchased unusable. Regards Graeme 

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More and more I’m thinking I see a Catalina 22 on a trailer in my future. My sailing goals are so much simpler now and I like the idea of keeping a boat in a different area each summer, instead of doing the same milk run every outing. I’d rather spend an entire season exploring the Thousand Islands or Georgian Bay than spend another summer doing laps near the city. Plus the cost of entry and ownership are ridiculously cheap, given the high fun quotient. 

What I’d love to do is take a little 17-footer up to Algonquin Park and see what kind of route could linked together...

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Hi Peanut Butter Great to see someone else with the Trailer Sailer bug taking hold. :) 

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On 3/7/2019 at 3:34 PM, Grith said:

Hi Tom Bummer. Bloody electrical systems. :) 

The next planned test of the backup camera was aborted yesterday when it turned out my wife's new car won't tow our flats boat. Wrong trailer electrical adapter, won't work with our brakes. Had to use a different boat to go fishing. It's a first world kind of problem.

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On 2/19/2019 at 11:07 PM, toad said:

TSers are dying because we expect more as a culture. Putting a family in a fibreglass outhouse with sails for the weekend is only for a certain subset of sailors. 

Generally younger less well off people choose the TS route. When people get a bit if coin they get a keelboat or perhaps a multi that can take the family away.

racing is another story, people will race anything 

then theres where to park it, and you need to be near a reasonable ramp, then its the hour rigging/launching and the hour putting all back on the trailer.  

Up to about 18 feet and say 500kg all up, relatively easy to handle, bigger than that- its a mission 

 

The i550 is 363 kg and 18 feet. That is class minimum weight and with the addition of camp gear and stuff would probably still under your 500 kg for towing and launching.

 

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On 2/20/2019 at 1:21 PM, Norse Horse said:

Nice link. The video section is very good. Video 2 is interesting, thx, want to post that in the r2ak thread.

I agree - thanks for posting the links - I hadn't seen those videos before.  

I want to hear more from people who have experience on the Seascape / First 27 and 24 doing the family camping and daysailing thing.  Looks like it could be a really fun boat, with the capability to do an offshore race as well.  Would love to find one in SoCal to check out - so far I haven't found any dealers with them in stock.  

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On 3/9/2019 at 6:20 AM, Importunate Tom said:
On 3/7/2019 at 3:34 PM, Grith said:

Hi Tom Bummer. Bloody electrical systems. :) 

The next planned test of the backup camera was aborted yesterday when it turned out my wife's new car won't tow our flats boat. Wrong trailer electrical adapter, won't work with our brakes. Had to use a different boat to go fishing. It's a first world kind of problem.

On further examination, not just a wrong adapter but aftermarket crap adapter and tow hitch receiver. The dealership did make it right after she bitched and before our grandson arrived, so we got to take him out fishing and I got to test the backup camera.

BackupCamSternVV.jpg

Gravity and the nonslip pad on the board did a fine job of holding it still.

BackupCamDisplay.jpg

The display mounted on the windshield. Good picture, no reception problems. There's a spot of white on the right side of the display. That's the destination and there's a nearly 90 degree turn at the end.

BackupCamEntering.jpg

The display while making the said turn. I can see the port side of the boat and everything to port of the boat just fine but without the backup camera had to "use the force" to determine how close/far I was from hitting my wife's toy skiff with the starboard stern corner.

BackupCamInside.jpg

Made it. The lower left corner shows missing my wife's boat. That's my toy skiff on the far right, missing it too, aimed for the shelves with the corner holding the camera.

TwinVeeParked.jpg

Overview for context.

I like it. I'm going to figure out a way to tie it to that cleat so I can use it on the road as well.

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Hi Tom How does it handle high speed towing on the road and what unit is it? :) 

PS Great shed but no yachts. :(

 

 

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:45 PM, $&@ said:

More and more I’m thinking I see a Catalina 22 on a trailer in my future. My sailing goals are so much simpler now and I like the idea of keeping a boat in a different area each summer, instead of doing the same milk run every outing. I’d rather spend an entire season exploring the Thousand Islands or Georgian Bay than spend another summer doing laps near the city. Plus the cost of entry and ownership are ridiculously cheap, given the high fun quotient. 

What I’d love to do is take a little 17-footer up to Algonquin Park and see what kind of route could linked together...

I am planning on hitting Lake Opeongo this summer on my Bay Hen.  Going to take my electric trolling motor instead of my Outboard I think.

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On 2/24/2019 at 7:21 PM, Importunate Tom said:

Not sailboat-specific since I bought it for my powerboats but I just got one of these:

4Ucam Digital Wireless Camera + 7" Monitor for Bus, RV, Trailer, Motor Home, 5th Wheels and Trucks Backup or Rear View

 

45 minutes ago, Grith said:

Hi Tom How does it handle high speed towing on the road and what unit is it? :) 

PS Great shed but no yachts. :(

It was a month ago and I had forgotten which one I ended up ordering too!

I don't know the answer to your question yet. All I did was set it on the boat and put the boat away, so just backing slowly over grass.

The reviews noted that various units had problems with metal in between camera and display/receiver. I do this operation with the tail gate open so I can look between the hulls, so direct line of sight with nothing in the way at all.

I like it well enough to want to try it on the road, so we'll see...

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On 3/7/2019 at 10:45 PM, $&@ said:

 My sailing goals are so much simpler now and I like the idea of keeping a boat in a different area each summer, instead of doing the same milk run every outing. I’d rather spend an entire season exploring the Thousand Islands

...

What I’d love to do is take a little 17-footer ...

A 17 footer would work nicely for the Thousand Islands too.  We used to keep a 35 foot boat in Gananoque, but found the boat was too big for decent sailing in the area, you can only sail back and forth across the 40 acres so many times, but a little boat will go any where.  Parks Canada maintains excellent docks on most of the islands as well as beaching areas at several.  The docks favour smaller boats, the smaller the better.  You could shoe horn a 17 footer in any where.  Bigger sailboats are stuck out at anchor.  I guess its a trade off, you can have a bigger boat at anchor, or you can use the island facilities on a smaller boat; log cabin picnic shelters with wood stoves and tables, composting toilets, fire pits, picnic tables, camp sites if that is your thing.  I am of the philosophy you would need a pretty big boat to be as comfortable as the facilities on those islands.  The Rideau Lakes and Muskokas are worth exploring for the same reasons, some of the lock stations are pretty comfy. 

Couple pics from the Thousand Islands:

Lagoonthumb.png

miltonthumb.png

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Hi TBW Very rare to find anything even remotely resembling facilities like those here in Australia. These days National Parks here would be charging for anything like that if they chose to build it at all and would probably use some environmental reason to force you to use them as well. :( 

Personally I far prefer to go just a little larger and stay onboard for the full on water living experience whilst retaining all the cruising grounds flexibility of a trailable yacht.

The cockpit of a yacht at sunset can be one of the most beautiful places in the world. You can even anchor right in front of some multi millionaires hugely expensive water front mansion if you chose and soak in the sunset between him and the view. Personally I prefer some secluded bay but always have a little laugh when I see this somehow invisaging how the mast could be a huge one fingered salute if they were the dislikable type. 

We have had this discussion before but I feel living and sleeping onboard is so much more enjoyable than retreating onto land for me. No humping stuff on and off the boat, fridge, stove, seating and bed right there. In fact everything you have taken on the trip is virtually at your finger tips. Dinner may even chose to present itself in the waters off the stern. I generally have a line out and a Gigi to hand ( I don’t know what you guys call them ) it’s a very long pole with a milti pronged head at one end and a loop of rubber at the other with which you can shoot it. I sometimes get something to supplement the dried food and beans. :) 

I view the cockpit as the house verandah complete with outdoor setting and the internal dinette as the cosy combined lounge dining room to retreat to when it gets cold or the bugs start to bite. Too many wines or beer and much later just roll into bed. :) 

Horses for courses. Regards Graeme 

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2 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi TBW Very rare to find anything even remotely resembling facilities like those here in Australia. These days National Parks here would be charging for anything like that if they chose to build it at all and would probably use some environmental reason to force you to use them as well. :( 

Personally I far prefer to go just a little larger and stay onboard for the full on water living experience whilst retaining all the cruising grounds flexibility of a trailable yacht.

The cockpit of a yacht at sunset can be one of the most beautiful places in the world. You can even anchor right in front of some multi millionaires hugely expensive water front mansion if you chose and soak in the sunset between him and the view. Personally I prefer some secluded bay but always have a little laugh when I see this somehow invisaging how the mast could be a huge one fingered salute if they were the dislikable type. 

We have had this discussion before but I feel living and sleeping onboard is so much more enjoyable than retreating onto land for me. No humping stuff on and off the boat, fridge, stove, seating and bed right there. In fact everything you have taken on the trip is virtually at your finger tips. Dinner may even chose to present itself in the waters off the stern. I generally have a line out and a Gigi to hand ( I don’t know what you guys call them ) it’s a very long pole with a milti pronged head at one end and a loop of rubber at the other with which you can shoot it. I sometimes get something to supplement the dried food and beans. :) 

I view the cockpit as the house verandah complete with outdoor setting and the internal dinette as the cosy combined lounge dining room to retreat to when it gets cold or the bugs start to bite. Too many wines or beer and much later just roll into bed. :) 

Horses for courses. Regards Graeme 

 

 

Yes, we are pretty lucky in Eastern Ontario.  We have about 450 miles of navigable interconnected National Parks and Heritage Canals that I can access from my town boat launch, you could stay at a different camp site each night, even on a 5 knot boat.  Except in one spot transiting from the Rideau Canal to the Trent Severn Canal, which takes you up to another National Park in Southern Georgian Bay, so you would have to spend one night either at anchor, or a marina, whatever your preference.  We like the marinas in Bath and Picton, so that's what we do when we are up that way.

I appreciate the anchor thing, a lot of people like it, you are far from alone, I just like the space to stretch out at the parks.  No problem catching good sunsets in the Thousand Islands, they are islands, actually the peaks of an old mountain range that the St Lawrence River  flows through.  Each island has its own personality, some have old abandoned farm steads and schools, some have old war of 1812 fortifications, some have native archeological sites.  It was designated a National Park in 1904, so even the picnic shelters are cool, some original.    The camp sites are empty.  We find we have the island to ourselves at night as often as not, even in peak summer.  

In addition to the National Parks, we have a 78000 square kilometer Provincial Park about a 2 hour drive North.  That's the Algonquin Park mentioned.  It has 2400 Lakes, so there is a decent chance you can find one for just yourself.  No motors aloud in most of the Park though, inboard or outboard.    

We have 9 days planned in the Thousand Islands this summer, we will be spending the entire time at our favourite island.  We will bring a couple of kayaks, a blow up boat and our snorkeling gear. We have a great camp site we use, right beside the picnic shelter, there has a little private sand beach for the kids and the picnic table is on a granite and pink quartz outcropping with some small cliff jumping into the St Lawrence, as well as a more sheltered lagoon for the kids to swim in.  Our tent site is on soft grass and moss that grows out of the foundation of an old stone foundation.  Its not really roughing it at all, in spite of our some what camperish set up.  Here is the sunrise from our camp site.

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1 hour ago, TBW said:

we have a 78000 square kilometer Provincial Park about a 2 hour drive North.  

 

 

That should read 7600 sq km

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Hi TBW Just shows how different our worlds are and why our personal choices have been different. If I was both younger and preretirement and had that sort of cruising ground close by perhaps I wouldn’t have felt the need for such a large trailable live aboard yacht.:) 

There are very few places in Australia with anything like what you have described on offer if any. We are much more likely to have mangrove lined bank edges or privately owned land in similar spots. There are few freshwater islands like the lovely ones in your photos whilst do have a whole range of inshore seawater islands, reefs and beaches with some wave action. Even our easturine waterways are likely to be in private ownership as shown below.

Still there are many magnificent cruising grounds but they are much more likely to require sleeping and staying on your yacht. Photo below taken from the highest peak in the Whitsundays in Queensland. The weather was better for climbing than sailing that day. Other days the sailing was magnificent. :) 

 

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14 hours ago, TBW said:

Yes, we are pretty lucky in Eastern Ontario.  We have about 450 miles of navigable interconnected National Parks and Heritage Canals that I can access from my town boat launch, you could stay at a different camp site each night, even on a 5 knot boat.  Except in one spot transiting from the Rideau Canal to the Trent Severn Canal, which takes you up to another National Park in Southern Georgian Bay, so you would have to spend one night either at anchor, or a marina, whatever your preference.  We like the marinas in Bath and Picton, so that's what we do when we are up that way.

I appreciate the anchor thing, a lot of people like it, you are far from alone, I just like the space to stretch out at the parks.  No problem catching good sunsets in the Thousand Islands, they are islands, actually the peaks of an old mountain range that the St Lawrence River  flows through.  Each island has its own personality, some have old abandoned farm steads and schools, some have old war of 1812 fortifications, some have native archeological sites.  It was designated a National Park in 1904, so even the picnic shelters are cool, some original.    The camp sites are empty.  We find we have the island to ourselves at night as often as not, even in peak summer.  

In addition to the National Parks, we have a 78000 square kilometer Provincial Park about a 2 hour drive North.  That's the Algonquin Park mentioned.  It has 2400 Lakes, so there is a decent chance you can find one for just yourself.  No motors aloud in most of the Park though, inboard or outboard.    

We have 9 days planned in the Thousand Islands this summer, we will be spending the entire time at our favourite island.  We will bring a couple of kayaks, a blow up boat and our snorkeling gear. We have a great camp site we use, right beside the picnic shelter, there has a little private sand beach for the kids and the picnic table is on a granite and pink quartz outcropping with some small cliff jumping into the St Lawrence, as well as a more sheltered lagoon for the kids to swim in.  Our tent site is on soft grass and moss that grows out of the foundation of an old stone foundation.  Its not really roughing it at all, in spite of our some what camperish set up.  Here is the sunrise from our camp site.

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I grew up in Michigan but have fond memories of camping with my dad on the Bruce Penninsula. Perhaps before too long, and I am long in the tooth the boss, the boat, and I will get back up there. Oh, found out a couple of months ago that I am also a Canadian citizen as Mum was Canadian when I was born. If Trumplandia gets much worse I may be heading that way. 

Cheers

Jim

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Hi All Just bringing the Monster back home from the afternoon race at the yacht club for some more work before the 3000 mile return trip to the Whitsundays next month during Annabel’s school holidays.  Stopped for donuts at the famous Berry Donut Van with Annabel as you do. Packed tourist town but I know the bus’s here don’t run on Sunday but the tourists don’t so parked directly across from  The Donut Van in the bus stop. Got a few withering looks from those who parked a quarter mile away and walked.  :)

PS Just bringing it home is 1 hour 15 min drive and a climb over a 1500 foot high mountain into Kangaroo Valley. 

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On 2/19/2019 at 8:43 AM, SkookumZac said:

I'm doing my part!  I just took delivery of this 4ksb on Sunday.  I wanted Speed, my wife wanted Comfort.  We both wanted Cheap.  Well, we got 2 of those things...

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The dogs like it!

My pit bull used to sail with me all the time

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I dry sail these 2 boats and like to take the white one with me on local trips where there is a small hoist.  Easy to step the mast and get going.

The red boat stays at our club because it’s tough to step a keel stepped mast shorthanded. 

The blue boat is the easiest to setup and ramp launch

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Hi Sail4beer Does that blue one have some sort of permanently mounted A frame for raising the mast? It looks like some earlier style system like the one on mine shown below. 

Does the blue one have a full keel as well? You just couldn’t launch full keel yachts on most of the boat ramps around here. :) 

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The blue one is a 1965 Crosby Curlew. There were only 6 built. Elizabeth Taylor owned one...

It’s mahogany on oak frames and the spruce mast is so light you can lift it into place from the deck after you attach a few stays.

It draws about 22” inches with the board up and is a full keel boat with a small vintage Yanmar diesel.

Beamy, shoal draft and beautiful. 

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Hi Sail4beer Cute! and so was LIz in 65. Mine has a Yanmar Diesel engine in a TS as well but let’s not go into that here as it upsets too many traditionalists probably like yourself. :) 

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I’m not that much of a traditionalist when it comes to trailer sailing!

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Hi Sail4beer That's a cool yacht. I had a 20 foot sports boat back in the early 90's and did the whole yacht racing thing again back then having originally been very active racing in the late 60's to early 80's previously.  I have a fleet of cars but my fleet of boats are just Kayaks, Hobie island's, Canadian canoe, SUP and a dingy not a fleet of yachts. :) Graeme

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I gave up the Toyota Landcuiser restorations a while back and got into boats. The Driveway had an Fj-25,Fj-40 and Fj-55 in it at one point. They were fun but I felt the need to go sailing and more recently go sailing fast and the rest is a story for a reality marine hoarding show.

Can’t have too many problems, right?!

Kevin:D

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11 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

I gave up the Toyota Landcuiser restorations a while back and got into boats. The Driveway had an Fj-25,Fj-40 and Fj-55 in it at one point. They were fun but I felt the need to go sailing and more recently go sailing fast and the rest is a story for a reality marine hoarding show.

Can’t have too many problems, right?!

Kevin:D

Pitiful excuse Kevin  :) Amongst a whole lot of other cars my driveway has a chipped up V10 VW Toe Rag (Touareg) with 930 Nm of torque used for dragging Jumbo Jets.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=v10+touareg+towing+jumbo&t=ffnt&atb=v156-5bp&ia=videos&iax=videos&iai=ls23tHPX8mQ

My every day driver is the very modest V6 version with a pitiful 550nm of torque. Barely pull the skin off a rice pudding! :)

The rest are mostly near dying or dead old Euro sports cars that seem to have bred when I wasn't watching. I used to race classic rally cars and also have hoarders disease. I even went deep into hock recently to buy a small set of warehouses for retirement income. At least that's how I justified it!  I actually needed two of them just to store my cars and stuff!

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On 2/19/2019 at 11:52 AM, Grith said:

Yes my son! Lets stop knocking peoples choices and get on with getting more people involved in sailing!

Let's not and pretend we think that's a good idea.

Re-read your comments about caravan parks and how it's impossible to get a good spot nowadays. Then ponder on your statement that you'd like to get more people involved in sailing, so they can clog up the good anchorages........

FKT

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FKT I think their is a big difference between 200-300 vans packed into something the size of a football field and preferring  2-3 yachts in some remote bay with plenty of anchoring room so you can occassionally share a drink and a story. I have just found recently that any out of the way anchorage may have no one else in it at all where there used to be a couple of other yachts around. Even if not for a bit of a chat it can be nice just from a safety aspect having someone else in VHF range for the unexpected dramas. 

Regards Graeme 

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Hi FKT I forgot to say that’s a neat yacht you built and congratulations as well for building your own dream. Very few of us ever do that! :) 

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8 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Let's not and pretend we think that's a good idea.

Re-read your comments about caravan parks and how it's impossible to get a good spot nowadays. Then ponder on your statement that you'd like to get more people involved in sailing, so they can clog up the good anchorages........

FKT

It's not so terrible.

FL's West Coast Trailer Sailing Squadron invaded our best anchorage this past weekend. They mostly clogged the beach area.

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49 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

It's not so terrible.

FL's West Coast Trailer Sailing Squadron invaded our best anchorage this past weekend. They mostly clogged the beach area.

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That’s a hell of a lot of miniature yachts in one spot. I think we would call that fully infested. Amazing to see that many minnows in one spot. Our rarely seen equivilent here in Aus features much larger trailable yachts. :) 

My Hobie AI’s would be right at home in that crowd and my TS would look like the Queen Mary. 

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26 minutes ago, Grith said:

That’s a hell of a lot of miniature yachts in one spot. I think we would call that fully infested. Amazing to see that many minnows in one spot. Our rarely seen equivilent here in Aus features much larger trailable yachts. :) 

There are typically a few bigger boats, almost always including the dreaded Mac powersailers, but they stay off the beach for the most part.

I'd say this is the WCTSS's second most popular gathering, behind the one at Cedar Key.

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7 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Pelican Bay.

Do we have a better one that I don't know about?

No.  I've never seen that many cool boats around here.

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18 hours ago, Grith said:

FKT I think their is a big difference between 200-300 vans packed into something the size of a football field and preferring  2-3 yachts in some remote bay with plenty of anchoring room so you can occassionally share a drink and a story. I have just found recently that any out of the way anchorage may have no one else in it at all where there used to be a couple of other yachts around. Even if not for a bit of a chat it can be nice just from a safety aspect having someone else in VHF range for the unexpected dramas. 

Regards Graeme 

Umm, Graeme, I grew up in Sydney and used to go camping without permits or any other bullshit all around Jervis Bay back in the early 1970's.

What do you reckon my odds of doing that now are? Last time I camped at Jervis Bay I had to book a spot and even then tell people who turned up that no, I *wasn't* going to share it with them simply because they wanted to. Ditto even on the far south coast at Bittangabee and Saltwater Creek.

My FIL had 3 moorings in Sydney Harbour and Broken Bay, used to be able to move his boat up to Broken Bay for the summer and back close to home for the winter. Demand for space resulted in the Govt changing the rules so he could only have one. Fair enough when the demand is high, no complaints, but you want to *encourage* more demand. I'd rather it didn't happen.

Even where I live I've seen the number of moorings in my bay double in the last 20 years. I own a few of them - bought them as they came on the market -  so I can lend them out to visitors and keep eyesores like catamarans away.

FKT

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Oh and another reason why TS is dying - urban consolidation. I own a house in Sydney, old quarter acre block size, walking distance from the Parramatta River and easy driving to 3 boat ramps.

All around there the single dwelling blocks are being re-developed into 3 or more villa units with minimal to no offstreet parking. Councils are increasingly getting aggressive about boats, trailers etc being parked on the streets as the car density increases because of the lack of offstreet parking. Add to that the need for a big, heavy towing vehicle and it all gets quite difficult.

I know where you live, it's similar in population density to here. I have a IH TD9 Drott parked outside my shed, which is nearly 3X the size of my house. Nobody cares. You can't do stuff like that in suburbia any more.

FKT

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26 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Oh and another reason why TS is dying - urban consolidation. I own a house in Sydney, old quarter acre block size, walking distance from the Parramatta River and easy driving to 3 boat ramps.

All around there the single dwelling blocks are being re-developed into 3 or more villa units with minimal to no offstreet parking. Councils are increasingly getting aggressive about boats, trailers etc being parked on the streets as the car density increases because of the lack of offstreet parking. Add to that the need for a big, heavy towing vehicle and it all gets quite difficult.

I know where you live, it's similar in population density to here. I have a IH TD9 Drott parked outside my shed, which is nearly 3X the size of my house. Nobody cares. You can't do stuff like that in suburbia any more.

FKT

This is a big part of it in Canada too.  Trailer sailing is much more affordable for folks in the country.  I have two trailer sailors parked in my side yard and an additional 8 car toppables, canoes and kayaks in my backyard and it costs me nothing.  Further, just about every little town near my little town has a free or very cheap town boat launch with free or very cheap parking.  

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FKT  Exactly why I like Trailer Sailing cruising you can get away from all the overcrowded spots. I recently camped on Jervis Bay in my TS. It is an immensely popular holiday destination 2.5 hours south of Sydney yet there was not one other yacht parked up and sleeping onboard whilst all the camp grounds were fully infested! 

Whilst generally agreeing about the ever growing crush of the urban sprawl being a serious contributor to making it more difficult to find a place to park a Trailer Sailer there is regardless a huge and growing number of campers, caravans and motorhomes as many people are no longer satisfied with tent camping. 

Re towing vehicles There is now a proliferation of dual cab utilities with a 3.5 ton towing capacity flooding the market these days. Not disagreeing with you generally but these are relevant points. :) 

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FKT By the way my ex partner and I looked seriously at Tasmania as a retirement destination to buy but the inability to follow the sun north with a TS in winter was one of the big issues deciding us on not going there. Very beautiful place but very hard to get off cheaply with a TS and a long and potentially challenging sail as well. I am sure I will sail across Bass Straight to Tassie in the next few years. Any chance of renting one of your moorings? :) 

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37 minutes ago, Grith said:

 

Re towing vehicles There is now a proliferation of dual cab utilities with a 3.5 ton towing capacity flooding the market these days. Not disagreeing with you generally but these are relevant points. :) 

Tow ratings of family vehicles on average have gone way down since the 80s.  The big old rear wheel drive station wagons of the 80s could manage some proper loads.

Now, at least in Canada, due partially to highly efficient 4 cylinder engines and CVT style transmissions, you need a specialty vehicle to tow anything at all.  Basically v6 minivans and mid size suvs, for the most part, get you 3500 pounds.

If you want much more than that, you are going to be on the hook for either an expensive SUV or a truck, and affordable farm trucks are largely a thing of the past. Buying a $50000 truck so one can tow there $5000 trailer sailer is a tough pill to swallow for many families.

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

FKT By the way my ex partner and I looked seriously at Tasmania as a retirement destination to buy but the inability to follow the sun north with a TS in winter was one of the big issues deciding us on not going there. Very beautiful place but very hard to get off cheaply with a TS and a long and potentially challenging sail as well. I am sure I will sail across Bass Straight to Tassie in the next few years. Any chance of renting one of your moorings? :) 

Yeah crossing Bass Strait by ferry is expensive, I do it a couple times a year. Not bad if you're just taking a passenger vehicle - $90 additional to passenger fares for my 4WD diesel Rodeo flat tray for example - but add a trailer and the price goes up a lot. Motor homes and the like - caravans - have some subsidised deal, no idea about trailer-sailers. You could call it a motor home maybe, see what happens - I think the rule is, it has to have a stove & toilet. Still runs about $1000 for a return trip for 2 people. Frankly it's cheaper to fly as long as you don't need a vehicle.

I generally head north in late May when the days get too short and come back in August. Sydney is nice in the winter. One day I might take the boat up instead of driving.

Real estate in Tasmania has gotten a lot more expensive in recent years.

Crossing Bass Strait isn't hard as long as you're not in a hurry and pick your weather window. Long way south to my place and then back again in a small boat though, might well be cheaper to bite the bullet & pay the ferry costs frankly. Once you're down here, no problems about sailing in semi-protected waters. Only 30 knots and 1.5m seas in the Channel yesterday. Tomorrow it's back to 20C, light airs and probably no swell at all. Guess what, we're going sailing tomorrow not today - it's still blowing out there, I can hear the wind going over my place. My boat is sitting in the most sheltered spot, an advantage of only drawing 1.2m.

Usually got a spare mooring unless it's Wooden Boat Festival and a bunch of people are here. I've got 3.5 acres on the tidal waterfront, we keep the dinghy fleet on the little beach out front.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Grith said:

Re towing vehicles There is now a proliferation of dual cab utilities with a 3.5 ton towing capacity flooding the market these days. Not disagreeing with you generally but these are relevant points. :) 

You want to check the warranty on those utilities very, very carefully before using that supposed towing ability. I've heard a few horror stories from owners of Toyotas about clutch & gearbox problems, with dealers saying they voided their warranty because of some bullshit reason. Horse float towing IIRC.

I wouldn't try to tow 3.5 tonnes behind my 4WD turbo diesel Rodeo...... though I did pull the 8 tonne boat out of the shed using it in low range.

FKT

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Hi TBW Lots of Tradies here in Aus purchase new dual cab utes under their companies for business use. In US dollars these are US$25-30,000 here and have 3.5 ton (7,840lbs) towing capacity. It’s what many grey nomads ultimately tow their caravans with as these utes are sold after 4-5 years due to dimishing taxation/depreciation benefits. As for the TS’s the big cruising ones are more likely to be US$10-30,000 second hand and triple this if buying new. 

The caravans these grey nomads are buying new are generally also about US $30-80,000 so I have just been promoting using TS’s as an alternative for those with some sailing background. :) 

 

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48 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

You want to check the warranty on those utilities very, very carefully before using that supposed towing ability. I've heard a few horror stories from owners of Toyotas about clutch & gearbox problems, with dealers saying they voided their warranty because of some bullshit reason. Horse float towing IIRC.

I wouldn't try to tow 3.5 tonnes behind my 4WD turbo diesel Rodeo...... though I did pull the 8 tonne boat out of the shed using it in low range.

FKT

Hi FKT I understand your concern however most Holden Rodeo’s were only rated to 2 ton and the very highest rated ones were only rated to 3 ton and were never felt to have adequate gross combined mass ratings for towing that weight.  It is only generally the latest generation of these utes from various manufacturers which have been uprated to 3.5 ton and have got the increased GCM’s and capability to tow really big loads. Lots of stories I have read about towing problems come from vehicles like the Rodeo’s and similar which are one to two generations old now. 

I purchased an old V10 VW Touareg when I purchased my maxi sized TS (which weighs in at 3.2 Ton fully cruising loaded on trailer) 12 months ago but found this was total overkill and moved down to a smaller more economical V6 one. The V10 was so powerful it really hardly noticed the yacht back there but was consuming over 18.5 litres per 100klms. The newer 3 litre V6 has now already towed the Imexus over 8,000 Klms (5,000miles) averaging around 15.5 litres per 100 klms. (about 15mpg) 

26-28 foot caravans are generally much harder to tow than equivilent sized TS’s. 

My smaller Touareg will power up steep mountains maintianing over 100 Kph ( 60 mph) and retains the ability to still accelerate towing over 3 tons yet only a few years ago many big (non truck) tow vehicles really struggled up these inclines doing the little tank engines ( I think I can, I think I can puffing billy job). Higher up the thread is a photo of the Touareg towing my Imexus back from the yacht club on Sunday. 

Graeme :) 

PS unfortunately the stove and toilet thing isn’t working to get a TS on the trans tassie ferry although there are some TS owners making submissions to try to get the frieght equalization scheme to apply like for caravans. 

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2 hours ago, Grith said:

Hi FKT I understand your concern however most Holden Rodeo’s were only rated to 2 ton and the very highest rated ones were only rated to 3 ton and were never felt to have adequate gross combined mass ratings for towing that weight.

I'd completely agree with that. In fact I decided not to buy a bigger surface grinder last year while I was in Sydney and tow it home in a new tandem axle trailer (was a lot cheaper than freighting it home, sadly). That was going to be pushing 2 tonnes and the thought of going uphill in 2nd wasn't doing it for me. My Rodeo isn't over-endowed with HP that's for sure.

No, the problems I've heard are people with Toyotas towing horse floats. Warped flywheels and burnt clutches. A couple years back now. I think Toyota was selling a towing package as an additional cost, even then some people had problems. And yeah there's always people who can't drive a shopping trolley.....

WRT trailer sailer equivalence with caravans on the ferry, seems totally reasonable to me. Good luck getting a change though.....

FKT

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9 hours ago, TBW said:

Tow ratings of family vehicles on average have gone way down since the 80s.  The big old rear wheel drive station wagons of the 80s could manage some proper loads.

Now, at least in Canada, due partially to highly efficient 4 cylinder engines and CVT style transmissions, you need a specialty vehicle to tow anything at all.  Basically v6 minivans and mid size suvs, for the most part, get you 3500 pounds.

If you want much more than that, you are going to be on the hook for either an expensive SUV or a truck, and affordable farm trucks are largely a thing of the past. Buying a $50000 truck so one can tow there $5000 trailer sailer is a tough pill to swallow for many families.

My wife's new Honda Pilot is rated for 5,000 lbs.

Just a bit less than my 1998 Chevy 2500 pickup, which I just sold for just over a thousand bucks. There were several like it available locally for $2k or less.

People who have no place to put their trailer sailer either make friends with me or just pay me $20/month to put them in my driveway.

14 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:
21 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Pelican Bay.

Do we have a better one that I don't know about?

No.  I've never seen that many cool boats around here.

They go annually. I visited in my Adventure Island in 2012

Stayed overnight on the Sun Cat the next year but the pics are on FB and I don't feel like fetching them.

 

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32 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

My wife's new Honda Pilot is rated for 5,000 lbs.

 

 

Yes, just about 1.5 times the price of my 3500 pound rated Grand Caravan.  Thats what I was saying.  Thats why I kept my trailer sailer weight under 2000 pounds.

Agreed, old trucks are an option, but I am not loading my 4 year old and 1 year old into a 30 year old truck and driving 3000 miles return to warm weather in the middle of winter :)  

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I completely understand why many like to stay small with their trailer sailing and tow vehicles and that’s great. 

Big, however, is also beautiful if multi week or multi month long range live-aboard style cruising is the desired outcome. Many of the highest speed trailable racers are also maxi sized towing packages. 

See sail4beer’s Fareast 28r racer and my Imexus 28 long range cruiser both pictured earlier in the thread. :) 

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Picked up a new to me trailer sailer this week, well, paid some one $1 to drag it out of a field.

Fits right in with this thread.  Should be bigger, faster and more capable than my current trailer sailer for even bigger adventures, and there is enough room to sleep on board, so no more trekking to shore to set up a tent.

Neat boat, keel tucks right up out of the way for beaching and trailering but when sailing its a deep keel with lead ballast.  The boat is reported to be only 1100 pounds for easy trailering, and beaching, although it doesnt have a kick up rudder.  Might add oar locks for rowing.  Carries a lot of sail for light air performance too.

She needs a lot of work, I probably won't get her sailing this season.  The boat is a 50 year old Cal 21.

20190612_191553.jpg

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The S2’s at our Club.  The boat closest is our #471, Getaway

CB8115A2-B883-4A73-B687-28E7AF7B993F.jpeg

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One advantage of a centerboarder like a trailer sailor:   I practice ‘man overboard’ on lost fenders, etc, as a skill builder.   10-20 with a lot of gusting today so I kept finding toys and rafts floating in the lake.   It was quite fun to watch a bikini clad young mother wade out to reclaim the loot.   Snagging a rapidly moving beach ball while single handing is challenging though.  Sorry, I was too busy making eye contact to take pictures.

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Div II windsurfers look better and better....

lets see...

trailers are a pain, and expensive, tires, brakes, and bearings wear out every 2 years or so

less ramps available, parking is disappearing

pulling up to shore destroys bottom paint or the bottom in general

dry sailing options are crowded and expensive

can’t keep boats on the street on the trailer

raising the mast is sinus clearing, a real pain beyond a certain size, and designs don’t take ease of mast raising into account

hull inspection for invasive species is time consuming

trailering is anxiety ridden- like staring in the rear view mirror to see if one of the tires is losing inflation, and all that banging and clunking from the ball and hitch, to say nothing of ‘how high is the mast anyway?  And gas stations can be a nightmare, as well as carrying all the shit involved, and making sure you have it all.....

The problem is not sailors, and the rest of society could give a shit.....

 

 

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16 hours ago, TBW said:

Picked up a new to me trailer sailer this week, well, paid some one $1 to drag it out of a field.

Fits right in with this thread.  Should be bigger, faster and more capable than my current trailer sailer for even bigger adventures, and there is enough room to sleep on board, so no more trekking to shore to set up a tent.

Neat boat, keel tucks right up out of the way for beaching and trailering but when sailing its a deep keel with lead ballast.  The boat is reported to be only 1100 pounds for easy trailering, and beaching, although it doesnt have a kick up rudder.  Might add oar locks for rowing.  Carries a lot of sail for light air performance too.

She needs a lot of work, I probably won't get her sailing this season.  The boat is a 50 year old Cal 21.

20190612_191553.jpg

SA/Disp: 29.49!  That could make for a sporty ride.  I hope it came with a mast.

-Z

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16 hours ago, Santana20AE said:

The S2’s at our Club.  The boat closest is our #471, Getaway

An S2 7.9 was at the top of my list when I was shopping.  There just aren't very many of them for sale.  Owners tend to keep em, I suppose.

-Z

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40 minutes ago, SkookumZac said:

SA/Disp: 29.49!  That could make for a sporty ride.  I hope it came with a mast.

-Z

Not so much, I used to have one but I paid a lot more for it ($200).  the retractable keel has sort of a bulb on the bottom, it looks a lot like a swinging 110 keel.  the retraction line is attached to the bulb and there isn't a way to remove it without swimming.  the bulb retracts into a hole in the cockpit which tends to fill the cockpit with water when moving forward.  It's not a bad little boat, but its not an undiscovered speedster.

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1 hour ago, SkookumZac said:

SA/Disp: 29.49!  That could make for a sporty ride.  I hope it came with a mast.

-Z

Yes, she did, but I haven't picked it up yet.  7 hour round trip drive for the mast, so we are going to get it on the way back after we visit my wifes folks next.  The boat is pretty complete, its just that all the parts are in Rubber Maid bins :)

I am going to try and keep her sporty by  keeping the rebuild light and campy.

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1 hour ago, Firefly-DC said:

Not so much, I used to have one but I paid a lot more for it ($200).  the retractable keel has sort of a bulb on the bottom, it looks a lot like a swinging 110 keel.  the retraction line is attached to the bulb and there isn't a way to remove it without swimming.  the bulb retracts into a hole in the cockpit which tends to fill the cockpit with water when moving forward.  It's not a bad little boat, but its not an undiscovered speedster.

The keel is certainly a bizarre contraption.  I am trying to think of a way to make the keel cable quick release.  I was thinking a happy hooker type device.  Some kind of rigid pole with a carribeaner or steel hoop.  

I have a couple sets of plans for the keel plug.  Original and modified.  Apparently the plugs make a big difference with speed/slopping.  Looks easy cheap to build.   I guess I will see.

Here is a pic of the keel bulb. Definitely a bit different.

20190606_195206.jpg

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On 3/26/2019 at 5:07 AM, TBW said:

Agreed, old trucks are an option, but I am not loading my 4 year old and 1 year old into a 30 year old truck and driving 3000 miles return to warm weather in the middle of winter :)  

Well, we load our S2 7.9 behind out 19 1/2 year old 3/4 ton Suburban and go where we need to go.  If (and i will admit that is a BIG IF) you can find an older 3/4 ton or 1 ton truck that has not been run into the ground as a work truck and has less than 100K miles on it (less is always better) AND you take good care of it, you will find the things are bulletproof.  Further, no one wants a big truck, they want a nice over equipped, pretty car so the big trucks tend to be cheap.  

Our Suburban has a quarter million miles on it and we regular drive it from our home in North Louisiana to our son’s home in florida, to visit friends or attend bicycle races all over the south, without a worry.  The heavy duty trucks are built to carry thier rated load.  If they have not been required to carry that load often, then they are quite overbuilt for every day use.  The end result, they easily outlast lesser vehicles.  

Supposing you are really picky, we priced a new 3/4 ton Chevy Worktruck.  With the exception of heated leather seats, the new base line trucks are as well equipped as our top of the line 2000 Suburban. $40,000 is not that much when just about any new vehicle is going to run you 25 to 30 thousand and won’t last nearly as long or give as good service.  

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