Callahan

Stanford Sailing Coach indicted on entrance fraud scheme

Recommended Posts

24 minutes ago, silent bob said:

Do they handle Divorce?  I bet a bunch are going to result from this!

Doesn't say anything about divorce... Who knows? (ask him if you want, He's on First...)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, familysailor said:

Vandermoer has pleaded guilty and has been sentenced to 18 months. Not aware of the fines imposed if any...

Wow...sentenced already ?....I know the guy at the top Singer plead guilty but have not heard of a sentence....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, familysailor said:

Yeah...I sorted it out after my post...John Vandemoer defense attorney and the prosecutor agreed on 18 months with a June 2019 sentencing hearing ....however the Judge has the final say and can increase the time....I  wonder if the 250K he pocketed a income tax fraud is included or will he have to deal with that crime as well

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds like a plea deal, to have happened that quick.   They need him to show that the "racing sailors", weren't...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, smcmsailor said:

Nice try- College Sailing is sanctioned by ICSA no NCAA.

He was assisting Werblow back in the day...I didn't miss him when he left for Stanford.

Capture.thumb.JPG.3f794556aaef6909be26e5d94a8e57d8.JPG

My understanding is that Stanford's Sailing is run through and is overseen by their athletic department.  This department is the same group that runs all NCAA sports at Stanford.

So while sailing is an ICSA sport, Stanford's grouping of it with other NCAA spots is a *big* deal.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some school wide NCAA sanctions. 

See SMU NCAA Death Penalty for the worst possible outcome for Stanford if the NCAA chooses to get involved.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 7:46 AM, MR.CLEAN said:
On 3/13/2019 at 5:48 AM, Tcatman said:

 this is no different then the college pres collecting the donation for a building, admitting the kid, and accepting a bump in his salary.....   One is called fraud.... the other is called the wonder of the world...

 

But it is. One gets you in jail, the other gets you a cocktail party and ribbon cutting

 

Reminds me of political corruption compared to lobbying.  Same thing, just more money, yet one is illegal and one is not.  what a system.

If you read the FBI indictment (https://www.justice.gov/file/1142876/download ) you'll see they discussed "Front Door" admissions (get in on your merits), and "Back Door" (buy a building). This was referred to by the perpetrators as "Side Door", in that it had better results than Back Door, but was a LOT cheaper to pull off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, kadyca said:

Seeing as my dad was a high school english teacher, I guess I can take some pride that I earned my way in, and I was actually on the wrestling team at Yale for two years before I had to stop due to injuries. (now in my 50s, the damn knee still hurts)

My parents were both teachers, but I was not athletic. I tested very well - mostly 99th percentiles, several AP 5s, but solid B-ish GPA that were "not working up to his potential". And I was an legacy, but I don't think the $25 my dad sent in every few years put me over the top.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, trimfast said:

These are just the people that got caught. For decades, sports and other activities have had this in other ways. Coaches paying kids to go to their school. Moving families to different towns to register in their school etc.  Pay to play is more widespread than anyone truly knows the details of. Sports teams give scholarships to people to play which some would have never made the admissions standards otherwise, yet most turn a blind eye. If they only gave scholarships based on academic merits alone, the college sport scene would be vastly different. Frankly, I am not shocked one bit that this was occurring. 

Yup. I went to school with people back in the 80s that I wouldn't want to hire to wax my boat. Though the Ivies don't do sports scholarships, there was some preferential admission. And some admissions for...certain people.

There were a few guys that come to mind that had reputations for having cheated their way in, and then cheated their way through. Rumor and speculation, of course, but when some of these folks opened their mouths...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Up to 65 years for the guy running the scam, Singer... hammer is going to come down hard, this is a big story across all media’s with universal distain as so many can relate to the pressure of college application process 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Up to 65 years for the guy running the scam, Singer... hammer is going to come down hard, this is a big story across all media’s with universal distain as so many can relate to the pressure of college application process 

This is one guy...one set of scams...sixty-ish sets of parents.  For the last 5-6 years.

This crap was going on back when I was in school, no doubt in my mind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I recall when Roger Staubach was at the Naval Academy, people were wondering how a guy with color blindness, which was an automatic disqualifier on the entrance physical, who had to spend a year prepping at New Mexico Military Academy just to meet the academic requirements, could get in. And then he won the Heisman in '63. Duh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The two sleaziest sports I've been aware of as far as coaches' pressure, recruiting and residency shenanigans are boy's private school football and girl's fast pitch softball.  A good fast-pitch pitcher can just about write her ticket.  

But these kids were paying to NOT be on the team.  Just to bluff the admissions office.  Sheesh.  I guess I'm just not a creative thinker.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, kinardly said:

I recall when Roger Staubach was at the Naval Academy, people were wondering how a guy with color blindness, which was an automatic disqualifier on the entrance physical, who had to spend a year prepping at New Mexico Military Academy just to meet the academic requirements, could get in. And then he won the Heisman in '63. Duh!

And has made a bloody fortune in real estate ever since.  Nice to be a senator's protege if you can't be a senator's son..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

And has made a bloody fortune in real estate ever since.  Nice to be a senator's protege if you can't be a senator's son..

Man are you a cynical fuck! Too bad your high horse only prances condemning the wrongs of the opposition party 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The real stony is how this became a story,    The system worked.   What happened?    Nobody with connections knew about it ahead of time, so it never popped up on the radar of the political appointees?     I’m gratified and amazed.   

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder if this mess will affect the SNC bribery case here? :D

I thought we (Canada, USA, UK, Ozzie et.al) were better than this.

These rich scum should do time for this - prison, not jail.

Conspiracy, bribery, unfit parenting - that should be good for 2 years at least.

And why is Macy getting a walk? Stories all indicate he was "in the room" when it went on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Man are you a cynical fuck! Too bad your high horse only prances condemning the wrongs of the opposition party 

That didn’t take long. 

d373b4ca40240739e6445bd5f217213a.jpg.9fa6d899222df0527f92a792012f5db6.jpg

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

I wonder if this mess will affect the SNC bribery case here? :D

I thought we (Canada, USA, UK, Ozzie et.al) were better than this.

These rich scum should do time for this - prison, not jail.

Conspiracy, bribery, unfit parenting - that should be good for 2 years at least.

And why is Macy getting a walk? Stories all indicate he was "in the room" when it went on.

The big uk universities have been doing it for centuries, how else did they pay for the libraries and labs and sports facilities. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would somebody start a thread about the evils of affirmative action for minority kids right about now?  

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

these are not gov owned uni's so whats the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Graduated from one of the schools in the news late 1970s. Parents very middle class. Maybe 8 years after graduating I took part in the alumni face to face interview process which is particularly helpful for applicants from out of state for whom travel is a burden. They get a local interview in their home town and if they are really an all state athlete you've heard of them. Interviewed a few students a year for over a decade. Many years later was on the admissions committee of that school's medical school, having been faculty there and other places. 

My general sense is that the admission process is pretty straightforward for 80 percent of applicants. Great grades, standardized test scores, extracurriculars, positive personality, volunteering etc. Keep in mind that even if you were in the HS valedictorian mix, that's pretty much the freshman class. The typical applicant was a solid 7/9. There was only one who was so outstanding that I told them if they never took anyone from my pool take this one. Was a  great student who thrived at the school.

Then there are special categories for targeted admissions, legacies, etc. Grades and test scores tend to be lower. Many of these applicants do well enough if admitted.

Once in awhile you will get an applicant who raises red flag concerns, especially as a future physician. I had no problem saying no, and the committee never tried to overrule me. I don't know if some other school eventually took them, but we didn't.

Aside from all the legal stuff, my bigger worry is that parents don't seem to consider the "fit" between the student and the school. It's like dating the homecoming queen just because a bunch of others want to, even if you really don't like her. Really dumb, even for sailors. Neither of my kids attended my alma mater, even though they could have attended tuition free. I never pushed them. First kid would have been a stretch academically and would probably have been lost in a big school. Second kid had the grades, nailed the SATs, nailed the AP exams, outstanding athlete etc. but wanted to go somewhere else. We were fine with that, especially when her favorite school (good place and a great fit, though not in the same league as the ones in the news) gave her a full academic scholarship for 4 years.

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailybulletin.com/2019/03/13/two-sage-hill-school-board-of-trustees-members-among-those-indicted-for-bribery/amp/

Local ‘elite’ prep school taking a couple big prestige hits.  Makes one wonder why parents pay $40k/yr and the kid(s) still can’t cut it at ACT time.    Fools and money...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

https://natashawarikoo.com/the-diversity-bargain/

Natasha Warikoo on NPR today.  Her book sounds like a good read.

 

i worked as Bursar at a small private college. Day I dreaded most was receving list of who’s attending classes and who’s actually paid or has approved Fin Aid.   One year had a Dean running interference for young redhead with no $$ or plans.   Upon looking into the matter I discovered she had previously stiffed the school for $4k and they wrote it off.  Oi!?

Big schools I can imagine it impossible to run down the details of who’s where and how did they get there.   Money talks.

Should be interesting to see how Feds got to Singer.  He ran $25 mil through the two offices in 8 years IIRC.  Wow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, blunderfull said:

https://natashawarikoo.com/the-diversity-bargain/

Natasha Warikoo on NPR today.  Her book sounds like a good read.

 

i worked as Bursar at a small private college. Day I dreaded most was receving list of who’s attending classes and who’s actually paid or has approved Fin Aid.   One year had a Dean running interference for young redhead with no $$ or plans.   Upon looking into the matter I discovered she had previously stiffed the school for $4k and they wrote it off.  Oi!?

Big schools I can imagine it impossible to run down the details of who’s where and how did they get there.   Money talks.

Should be interesting to see how Feds got to Singer.  He ran $25 mil through the two offices in 8 years IIRC.  Wow.

There was a "Parent #1   "https://www.justice.gov/file/1142876/download    ....that went to the authorities that got the ball rolling...evidently the Feds have a ton of "wired" conversations that brutally detail the willing complicity in the scam, how it worked and the names of the willing participants  ....so far the Stanford coach , the kingpin Mr. Singer, Mark Riddell test taker have all plead guilty and have cooperated with Feds...even with cooperation with the HUGE publicity and universal outrage it'll be tough to get much mercy from the courts on sentencing days as the whole WWW will be watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 1:41 PM, toddster said:

I once worked with a guy who was a professor at a small college attached to a big football program.  He pretty much openly admitted that the $500K (in 80's dollars) instrument in his lab was the price of certain well-known NFL star's passing grade in chemistry.  "They asked me what it would take.  I didn't think they'd actually give me one."  

Why would they put a football star in chemistry. I thought that the science requirement was geology, aka 'Rocks for Jocks'. Went to a football game between Navy and Michigan. When they introduced the players the Navy guys, who were about 40 lbs lighter than the UM guys, were majoring in things like nuclear engineering. Fave major for Michigan was communications. Score was something like 77-10.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it took 8 years and a disgruntled client, this isn’t the only syndicate,

One of those “reality” shows, Boarder Security (Kiwi or Oz) showed customs finding fake passports in the luggage of a short stay Chinese traveler .    It ended up being a professional testtaker flying in.    The person was refused admission but no criminal action was taken.   They didn’t even mention investigating the names on the passports.   This isn’t just an American problem.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, NaptimeAgain said:

Graduated from one of the schools in the news late 1970s. Parents very middle class. Maybe 8 years after graduating I took part in the alumni face to face interview process which is particularly helpful for applicants from out of state for whom travel is a burden. They get a local interview in their home town and if they are really an all state athlete you've heard of them. Interviewed a few students a year for over a decade. Many years later was on the admissions committee of that school's medical school, having been faculty there and other places. 

My general sense is that the admission process is pretty straightforward for 80 percent of applicants. Great grades, standardized test scores, extracurriculars, positive personality, volunteering etc. Keep in mind that even if you were in the HS valedictorian mix, that's pretty much the freshman class. The typical applicant was a solid 7/9. There was only one who was so outstanding that I told them if they never took anyone from my pool take this one. Was a  great student who thrived at the school.

Then there are special categories for targeted admissions, legacies, etc. Grades and test scores tend to be lower. Many of these applicants do well enough if admitted.

Once in awhile you will get an applicant who raises red flag concerns, especially as a future physician. I had no problem saying no, and the committee never tried to overrule me. I don't know if some other school eventually took them, but we didn't.

Aside from all the legal stuff, my bigger worry is that parents don't seem to consider the "fit" between the student and the school. It's like dating the homecoming queen just because a bunch of others want to, even if you really don't like her. Really dumb, even for sailors. Neither of my kids attended my alma mater, even though they could have attended tuition free. I never pushed them. First kid would have been a stretch academically and would probably have been lost in a big school. Second kid had the grades, nailed the SATs, nailed the AP exams, outstanding athlete etc. but wanted to go somewhere else. We were fine with that, especially when her favorite school (good place and a great fit, though not in the same league as the ones in the news) gave her a full academic scholarship for 4 years.

 

Interestingly USC has ceased the local alumni interviewing process.  In hindsight, they removed a layer of due diligence that might have caught these scams.  The reason they gave for removing the process was to end "demonstrated interest".    Hmmm ...and substitute it with "side door interest"

Damn shame to besmirch the rising reputation of a fine institution. I'm afraid that this will set them back 10 years and bring back the rap of University of Spoilt Children.  They need to take drastic action. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Yeah...I sorted it out after my post...John Vandemoer defense attorney and the prosecutor agreed on 18 months with a June 2019 sentencing hearing ....however the Judge has the final say and can increase the time....I  wonder if the 250K he pocketed a income tax fraud is included or will he have to deal with that crime as well

He didnt pocket the $260 k......it went to the sailing program.   It doesnt mitigate the fact that he was accepting bribes to fund his program but at least there will not be income tax repercussions.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, IPLore said:

He didnt pocket the $260 k......it went to the sailing program.   It doesnt mitigate the fact that he was accepting bribes to fund his program but at least there will not be income tax repercussions.

Yeah ..you are correct...he did , I believe( recall) pocket personal monies too.... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

it's all silly,  all the private universities have to do ( i doubt state schools could do this)   is hold 10 admission spots open at $250,000 apiece good for as along as you make the grade, first come first served.. no SAT'S / ACT'S..  you flunk out, you're done, or pay up for another spot if it's available,  first out, last in..

 

then the well to do, can simply buy a spot..  no backhanded people making 25 million etc..  no coaches or admins will get in trouble etc..

Now there is American business ingenuity talking. Cut out the middle man.

Hell.....I would go further. Let the market and good ole capitalism determine the price by putting 10 admission spots on EBay and letting the highest bidders determine market price. It would all be above board, no wire fraud involved and it could probably fund another 50 scholarships.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Stanford can take solace that their Learfield Champion athletic dept did not eclipse Michigan State or Penn State in their actions. It just figures the sailing team took them down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I heard an interesting proposal while listening about this situation on the radio.

Why not just let people pay more above board to get their kid in?  Say tuition is 50K a year.  Little Janie is an ok student but not great.  So if her folks can fork over 100k a year or make a one-time donation of 500k, then the extra money could be used to pay the way for academically good students who could otherwise not afford a slot.  At least it would be out in the open.

This issue of college acceptance has hit home for my white boy son, a high school senior.  One school he really wants to go to wait listed him (he's since been accepted).  My son has an A+ average, taking all honors and AP classes all through high school.  Great test scores, 90+ percentile.  Plays 3 varsity sports, captain and all conference in one of the sports.  Gets decent playing time in his current spring sport at a nationally ranked top 10 high school team, and has been recruited for this sport by many colleges.  The school he goes to is one of the top prep schools on the east coast- because he's an outstanding student, not because I can afford it, he's getting and almost 80% tuition break.  A classmate of his takes the regular track of classes, B student, no sports, nothing really standout- gets accepted to the school my son was wait-listed to.  But he's "non-white".  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

  • Like 3
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, sr chief said:

Bullshit lawsuit....there is a arbitrary factor in who is selected and who is rejected in many many  identical applications  at most of the highly sought after colleges and universities

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Bullshit lawsuit....there is a arbitrary factor in who is selected and who is rejected in many many  identical applications  at most of the highly sought after colleges and universities

Its 2019...and this case was filed in the Northern Dist. of California... I'm from a legal mind, If I was representing them thats the part of the country where I would start. Pretty sure this is just the beginning? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, sr chief said:

Its 2019...and this case was filed in the Northern Dist. of California... I'm from a legal mind, If I was representing them thats the part of the country where I would start. Pretty sure this is just the beginning? 

If I was the university I'd think my admission stats would stand up in front of a jury....of course they'll not want to go the media publicity route and pay the shakedown $$$ and a make it go away.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Lark said:

If it took 8 years and a disgruntled client, this isn’t the only syndicate,

Even shadier - some guy was being investigated for some other shady shit, and he sang a little about Singer to take the heat off and the FBI's dick got hard fast.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

If I was the university I'd think my admission stats would stand up in front of a jury....of course they'll not want to go the media publicity route and pay the shakedown $$$ and a make it go away.

  In light of the huge litigation involving a slice of the daily media wrt to the HS kid in Kin-tucky land,  I'm sure the consiglieres advising the Universities will be watching the court of public opionion and recommending to quietly settle , like quick...

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

If I was the university I'd think my admission stats would stand up in front of a jury.

Where do you practice law

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

Where do you practice law

Where do you ?....and why not ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I was a prosecutor in many Chief Petty Officer initiations. I can vouch for a 100% prosecution rate! That was a few years back when they were REAL, of course... thus my comment of it being 2019...

Edited by sr chief
mispelling

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

Where do you ?....and why not ?

You are answering a question with a question.  You said "admission stats would stand up in front of a jury" as if you have some kind of professional experience on the matter. Do you?

 

Or are you just running your mouth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bgytr said:

  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

Look, I understand how one could be against affirmative action for sure, but in no way is it "just as bad" that a minority got admitted over your son in a (misguided?) attempt to correct for centuries of, let's just say, an "uneven" playing field, versus a kid who got admitted over your son because his parents bought off the system.  

In one case, he's getting screwed by a system that's attempting to provide opportunities to the disadvantaged.  In the latter, he's being screwed by a system that's providing even more opportunities to the already advantaged.  You can argue that both are wrong, but not that they're the same.  

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, MR.CLEAN said:

You are answering a question with a question.  You said "admission stats would stand up in front of a jury" as if you have some kind of professional experience on the matter. Do you?

 

Or are you just running your mouth?

Shut the fuck up...go sell some houses or whatever you do these days...I'll post my opinions thank you

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm curious as to how this gift to the sailing program was actually made and accepted. Even a low six figure gift, especially coming out of the blue, would cause some questions to be asked by the development office ("does the donor have a child in the applicant pool?" being among the first, an affirmative answer to which would lead to the gift being refused), followed by a little due diligence on the donor. I'm sure Stanford is looking at the chain of approval in its development office that led to this gift being accepted. The sailing coach may not be the end of this story.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, SailBlueH2O said:

.I'll post my opinions thank you

And what is your opinion regarding the likelihood of successfully defending a lawsuit based on?

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, bgytr said:

.  But he's "non-white".  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

Its unfortunate, but from a historical perspective the disadvantage to white kids being at the back of the line for elite colleges is a tiny fraction of the disadvantages that black kids experience through their lives.

My sons are also white kids, they will  no doubt experience some 'unfairness' in their lives, but I guarantee that the advantages they have as a result of growing up in a stable household, going to a suburban high school, and having parents with college degrees, mean that on balance there will be more unfairness in their favor than against them.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly Singer is not the only fish in the pond. For the Justice Dept. and FBI to make this case so public and sensationalize it. My guess is that there is more to come. The negative attention that this is bringing upon the big Uni s , and thousands that were denied admission are going to make mucho Law firms richer and many families wealthier. Overnight. The national crime bizz must be slow? Avennati will be all over this like white on rice and every media attention gabbing  lawyer, by tonight's 1830 national news broadcast. On the flip side what this case has done is to have re-enlightened to masses the outrageous cost of an under graduate degree and all sides of the talking heads, 24/7 cable cabal are talking about it and turning this story into a much bigger story, which obviously has been going on for decades... as for the AD of Stanford not knowing??? Yo, the sailing department is negative revenue drain on any athletic department , so when your guy is bringing you large six figure checks and telling you not to ask? Back in the day I'm sure it was a long weekend in Vegas, hookers and blow... and for the record, saw the Tailgate thread a while back. Ha! That event was children playing in a park with hovering over protective parents at arms reach compared to some of the initiations I prosecuted! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This Just In - Breaking News

All parties involved at every level of the Admission's Scandal 

Have Filed to Run for President as a Democrat in 2020

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, IPLore said:

He didnt pocket the $260 k......it went to the sailing program.   It doesnt mitigate the fact that he was accepting bribes to fund his program but at least there will not be income tax repercussions.

So, no one questioned where the new RIB came from, given his small budget? Or the new sails  he gets every year?  He spent $260,000 on clevis pins at West Marine? No one said, "You have a huge donor; I'd like to thank them in person; what's their name?  They should be invited to our next fundraising gala; what's their address? No one asked, "You gave away ten slots and only eight of them are on the team; what happened to the other two?"  There was a wink and nudge somewhere up the line. And yes, there will be tax repercussions: the parents donated to a fake 501c3 for fraudulent purposes.  The IRS will be the next agency to jump on this.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you’ve worked in higher educ and have stories we could prolly start another thread titled “How we emptied the Fin Aid till to fund our coke/boat/etc bizness”

Higher Ed is about as chaotic a business as most will ever encounter.   This admissions scandal is just another chapter in the weird history of the Education Money Machine.

 

Back in the day “Financial Aid” was a laughably inept system tilted in favor of the lenders.   But, there were always those who worked the system for cash to build boats, companies and dope deals.

In the ‘80’s fin aid for our students would not be released till 30 days into the semester. At which time there would be the inevitable ‘no-shows’ in classes who cashed out & headed off into their real business & also the ‘red flag’ crew who had falsified loan apps ( signing off as their parents etc) or simply had one of several loan apps rejected thus bringing them up short by a few grand.   I would spend the next month running down the leads and sometimes telling a parent that lil Johnny had signed off a loan app in their name for ) $12k.   Fun times.  My boss’s daughter was a CPA with a private detective liscence who we used more than once on the weird cases.

I gave private sailing lessons to a guy from MIT at Community Boating in Boston.   His plan was to operate a offshore internet gambling site.  His initial funding for boat and hardware came from his student loan monies thru MIT.  ( $50k IIRC.)

Brilliant guy with two post/grad degrees but could not for the life of our lessons figure out how to anticipate wind changes and his course.   Not sure how that project went in the end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

Its unfortunate

Why is it unfortunate.... ?  This is not a good reply to a complaint about affirmative action....   (back in the early days of affirmative action... athletic slots suddenly had to go to WOMAN.. and oh my... such injustice.... why it was just unfortunate!)

Your assumption is "SHOULD" be assigned based on Merit alone..  

So.... what is "merit alone" mean?    We can't agree  on those factors that go into merit.   so each institution makes their own value choices.

Moreover...   What makes you think that you can rank order all of the kids in the country for any one factor (much less the thousands of attributes that could be valued)...  We don't have a single measuring stick on any metric that can do that.... Harvard could fill All of their slots with kids with PERFECT SAT SCORES.

Fact of life.... college admission is a marketplace.....   It is a twisted, contorted, biased market.... nothing fair about it... In america... we HATE regulating markets like this.  Remember,  the value inherent in  Harvard is the PERCEPTION that its Fair and the best of the best ....  ergo  the most valuable.  If harvard slots were priced based on a fair market...   would you consider it the best of the best?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IPLore said:

He didnt pocket the $260 k......it went to the sailing program.   It doesnt mitigate the fact that he was accepting bribes to fund his program but at least there will not be income tax repercussions.

The Rapid Response Email that went out to alums stated that Stanford would insure that none of the money benefitted the school. So it looks like the sailing program is going to take it in the shorts.

Earl

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

 

And why is Macy getting a walk? Stories all indicate he was "in the room" when it went on.

Because Macy is Frank Gallagher!

    Here is how his son got into MIT.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For the shallow thinkers attempting to make this political I will point out that the divide in this country is not left vs right it is have vs have not.  The uber wealthy are neither liberal or conservative as much as they are really rich.  And they would prefer to stay that way. 

 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Tcatman said:

Why is it unfortunate.... ?  This is not a good reply to a complaint about affirmative action....   (back in the early days of affirmative action... athletic slots suddenly had to go to WOMAN.. and oh my... such injustice.... why it was just unfortunate!)

 

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I'm willing to try to justify my use of the word, but cant really make head of tale of what your objection is, or what assumptions you are making about my opinions.

For the record I do not consider Harvard the best of the best. I was very fortunate in my education options, and in my arrogance feel that I attended better :).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, IPLore said:

Interestingly USC has ceased the local alumni interviewing process.  In hindsight, they removed a layer of due diligence that might have caught these scams.  The reason they gave for removing the process was to end "demonstrated interest".    Hmmm ...and substitute it with "side door interest"

Damn shame to besmirch the rising reputation of a fine institution. I'm afraid that this will set them back 10 years and bring back the rap of University of Spoilt Children.  They need to take drastic action. 

Sounds like they DESERVE the rap, no?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, bgytr said:

I heard an interesting proposal while listening about this situation on the radio.

Why not just let people pay more above board to get their kid in?  Say tuition is 50K a year.  Little Janie is an ok student but not great.  So if her folks can fork over 100k a year or make a one-time donation of 500k, then the extra money could be used to pay the way for academically good students who could otherwise not afford a slot.  At least it would be out in the open.

This issue of college acceptance has hit home for my white boy son, a high school senior.  One school he really wants to go to wait listed him (he's since been accepted).  My son has an A+ average, taking all honors and AP classes all through high school.  Great test scores, 90+ percentile.  Plays 3 varsity sports, captain and all conference in one of the sports.  Gets decent playing time in his current spring sport at a nationally ranked top 10 high school team, and has been recruited for this sport by many colleges.  The school he goes to is one of the top prep schools on the east coast- because he's an outstanding student, not because I can afford it, he's getting and almost 80% tuition break.  A classmate of his takes the regular track of classes, B student, no sports, nothing really standout- gets accepted to the school my son was wait-listed to.  But he's "non-white".  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

I'm sorry Snowflake, but I cannot FEEL sorry for a kid who's won the parent and genetic lottery. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Hawaiidart said:

So, no one questioned where the new RIB came from, given his small budget? Or the new sails  he gets every year?  He spent $260,000 on clevis pins at West Marine? No one said, "You have a huge donor; I'd like to thank them in person; what's their name?  They should be invited to our next fundraising gala; what's their address? No one asked, "You gave away ten slots and only eight of them are on the team; what happened to the other two?"  There was a wink and nudge somewhere up the line. And yes, there will be tax repercussions: the parents donated to a fake 501c3 for fraudulent purposes.  The IRS will be the next agency to jump on this.

well that's possible, but it'll only be a handful  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, sr chief said:

I was a prosecutor in many Chief Petty Officer initiations. I can vouch for a 100% prosecution rate! That was a few years back when they were REAL, of course... thus my comment of it being 2019...

And I was frequently tapped as defense counsel, and lost 100% of my cases. Go figure. Had to drink a lot of raw egg and tobasco cocktails. It was all in good fun.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sweare Deep said:

I'm curious as to how this gift to the sailing program was actually made and accepted. Even a low six figure gift, especially coming out of the blue, would cause some questions to be asked by the development office ("does the donor have a child in the applicant pool?" being among the first, an affirmative answer to which would lead to the gift being refused), followed by a little due diligence on the donor. I'm sure Stanford is looking at the chain of approval in its development office that led to this gift being accepted. The sailing coach may not be the end of this story.

For sure the Development Officer would ask "Do they have any more money for our Comp Synd Fund?"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, kinardly said:

And I was frequently tapped as defense counsel, and lost 100% of my cases. Go figure. Had to drink a lot of raw egg and tobasco cocktails. It was all in good fun.

Well sir, I recall one hot batch of truth serum was so , that we had to remove it from the courtroom ( barn), as the farm animals, judge, jury and a few spectators , as per their request. To this day the sight and odor of Balut will send me running!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Raz'r said:

I'm sorry Snowflake, but I cannot FEEL sorry for a kid who's won the parent and genetic lottery. 

I don't give a s*** if you feel sorry or not pussy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Raz'r said:

I'm sorry Snowflake, but I cannot FEEL sorry for a kid who's won the parent and genetic lottery. 

What next? Kids getting citizenship because their parents didn't follow the rules and jumped in front of the line while others followed..... Oh wait take it to that shithole pa  no thanks 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Damn there’s some HEAT in here today.

Bunch’a overeducated white guys havin’ at the SYSTEM.    Yowza.

What’s AOC said today about this mess?

Classic flashback:    Just getting UMass/Boston built w/o half the pols & contractors under indictment was an achievement.   The roofs leaked, the ventilation failed on and on but, bottomline:  in Mass.Public Higher Ed - EVERYONE gets paid.

Joe Rogan teeing one up for this shit show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, bgytr said:

I heard an interesting proposal while listening about this situation on the radio.

Why not just let people pay more above board to get their kid in?  Say tuition is 50K a year.  Little Janie is an ok student but not great.  So if her folks can fork over 100k a year or make a one-time donation of 500k, then the extra money could be used to pay the way for academically good students who could otherwise not afford a slot.  At least it would be out in the open.

This issue of college acceptance has hit home for my white boy son, a high school senior.  One school he really wants to go to wait listed him (he's since been accepted).  My son has an A+ average, taking all honors and AP classes all through high school.  Great test scores, 90+ percentile.  Plays 3 varsity sports, captain and all conference in one of the sports.  Gets decent playing time in his current spring sport at a nationally ranked top 10 high school team, and has been recruited for this sport by many colleges.  The school he goes to is one of the top prep schools on the east coast- because he's an outstanding student, not because I can afford it, he's getting and almost 80% tuition break.  A classmate of his takes the regular track of classes, B student, no sports, nothing really standout- gets accepted to the school my son was wait-listed to.  But he's "non-white".  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

I think that would depend on what the goal of the university is.  If they want to be known for academics they need to recruit the best and the brightest.  If they want to be known as the rich kid hangout and they don't intend to be academically rigorous, that is fine too.  Just as many a state school recruits students because they can play ball, there is nothing wrong with a private school recruiting people based exclusively on balance sheet.   Just charge a lot, charge more the more tutoring they need to pass, don't offer merit based scholarships, and don't pretend to be more.    The fraud occurred when the universities claimed to be THE location for intelligent overachievers, but had a side door so the pretty people could imply they had a brain and work ethic by showing a degree they got under false pretenses.   

I realize this is a different era, and the land grant schools were slow to catch onto the Greed is Good movement.   Even in the beginning of the 90's state schools I attended had an honor code, especially beyond the bachelor degree level.  Academic dishonesty was cause for failing the course.  Failing a single course was cause for dismissal from the professional program.   Readmission was almost unheard of even for hardship reasons.   I am confident a student that gained admission because daddy bought a key to the side door would have been dropped from the program as a taint to the university and profession.   Falsified tests are unforgivable in an academic environment.   Even though this is just undergraduate, the false pretenses should be cause for dismissal if the school claims its degrees are a matter of prestige not obtainable by mere ordinary people.    Legally, the school probably has no need to take action.  If it wants to claim the moral high ground, it has no choice.   The ability of these students to survive is evidence the academic environment is rather embarrassingly ordinary after all.  

I've long argued there is little difference between a dedicated student at an average institution and an average student at a prestigious school, when you look at work performance and ability five years out.  The difference is connections and glamour, not ability or education.    The dedicated student will soak up more then the mediocre student is spoon fed, even if the spoon is fancy ivory.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, bgytr said:

I don't give a s*** if you feel sorry or not pussy

oh, the butthurt runs deep for Daddy Snowflake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/12/2019 at 11:06 PM, blunderfull said:

Is it just me that thinks it weird that as soon as someone pleads guilty around Newp Beach (Singer - the major domo in this scam),  that immediatly his real estate broker gets the house & asking ($2.6 mil) splashed on front pages along with the gooomy walkaway shot of the perp at the courthouse??

FFS it’s trashy opportunism at it’s OC finest.  ‘ Guilty your honor.   And uh...the house is priced to move.   Ck local papers for details.   Blah, blah, blah.’  

Unreal.

 

"Motivated owner has had a change of plans and has to move out of state. Do not miss this opportunity.. "

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Singer my not be able to keep the proceeds if the Feds claim the property was bought with ill gotten gains 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, JohnMB said:

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I'm willing to try to justify my use of the word, but cant really make head of tale of what your objection is, or what assumptions you are making about my opinions.

For the record I do not consider Harvard the best of the best. I was very fortunate in my education options, and in my arrogance feel that I attended better :).

Sorry,

you replied to this

 

8 hours ago, bgytr said:

. The school he goes to is one of the top prep schools on the east coast- because he's an outstanding student, not because I can afford it, he's getting and almost 80% tuition break.  A classmate of his takes the regular track of classes, B student, no sports, nothing really standout- gets accepted to the school my son was wait-listed to.  But he's "non-white".  Scream all you want about money being a delineation, but when your child is the wrong color and sex and it puts him at the end of the line, that's just as bad.

Your response was....

"Its unfortunate,"

bgytr is pissed that in his opinion the merits for his kid were undervalued  and a non white kid was  pushed ahead...  aka affirmative action... and even better.... in 2019... oh... the horror of affirmative action is AS BAD as Purchasing a Seat or Purchasing a seat plus some fraud...

You then go on to make the standard defense of affirmative action in balancing two wrongs.... and selecting a student that is "a member of a protected class".... so ... yeah..... "its unfortunate"   

This is a terrible argument for this problem as well as not persuasive...... you are just on the opposite side of the time worn argument Merit versus affirmative action.       But NOW you are really screwed... because the actual reality  brought into focus  in 2019 is Merit vs Affirmative Action vs Purchasing a seat, vs Purchasing a seat plus fraud.  (the moral high ground has always been fuzzy)

The issue of course is the notion of Merit.... as the basis for distributing... essentially priceless spots at elite schools

I screwed up explaining my points in my rush to get out the door.....

Merit is undefined and unique for each institution based on what each values... and my second point... even if you break out one measure... eg SAT scores..... your ruler does not have enough precision.... you can't distinguish between all students with perfect SATs.... the ruler is inadequate.   Harvard could fill the class with these kids.  Trying to define Merit is an endless debate... much like how many angels dance on the head of a pin...   Have at it.

Fact of life... as the current circumstances demonstrate. American Higher Education is a badly regulated, highly twisted marketplace with obscure rules trying to allocate a scarce resource. ..   Nothing about it is FAIR...   The current system is about Perpetuating the notion of "the Best"  and bullshitting people that it is Fair to their kid and ... and because this is America...  based on "merit"   whatever "merit" means...    The Ivy league is the best because the Ivy league is the best  but historically, , every kid at Penn  or Cornell truly believes that they belong at a BETTER Ivy league school.. And of course   elite grads truly are the best and the brightest....  (reference Kennedy's Ivy League cabinet) cough cough!

If you cut the bullshit and priced seats at Harvard in a free market.... Would Harvard be "elite" or the Best anymore.  ??  Nope and that is why we keep the current BS system.

you write

I was very fortunate in my education options, and in my arrogance feel that I attended better :).

Was your choice more FAIR to all applicants then the alternatives or did they make your selection solely based on "merit"?  

Nope.  you also went with  the  Better / Best paradigm.... Not the  Fair...and Merit based paradigm that everyone wants to believe makes their shit not stink.. 

What is really needed is clear thinking about what we are doing here.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought it was basically understood that Princeton could use a guy like Joel. 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Foreverslow said:

"Motivated owner has had a change of plans and has to move out of state. Do not miss this opportunity.. "

Today’s papers saying Feds made them take the house off market.  Currently valued at $3.2 mil.

More details about his family not seen yet.   One of his neighbors quoted as describing Singer as “shady.”   Really ?   Lol..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, JohnMB said:

Its unfortunate, but from a historical perspective the disadvantage to white kids being at the back of the line for elite colleges is a tiny fraction of the disadvantages that black kids experience through their lives.

My sons are also white kids, they will  no doubt experience some 'unfairness' in their lives, but I guarantee that the advantages they have as a result of growing up in a stable household, going to a suburban high school, and having parents with college degrees, mean that on balance there will be more unfairness in their favor than against them.

Are you saying that all non white kids grow up in unstable households with uneducated parents? And that all white kids grow up in stable households with educated parents and live in the suburbs?   hmmm nice generalization based on race.  bigot much?

fyi, this non white kid that beat out my much more qualified son for a seat comes from wealthier and more stable family situation.  I'm divorced and smack dab in the middle class, this family the mom is a dr and the dad is an insurance executive. Their family income is probably 5 times or more than mine.  Maybe they "donated" something to the school then?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, bgytr said:

Are you saying that all non white kids grow up in unstable households with uneducated parents? And that all white kids grow up in stable households with educated parents and live in the suburbs?   hmmm nice generalization based on race.  bigot much?

fyi, this non white kid that beat out my much more qualified son for a seat comes from wealthier and more stable family situation.  I'm divorced and smack dab in the middle class, this family the mom is a dr and the dad is an insurance executive. Their family income is probably 5 times or more than mine.  Maybe they "donated" something to the school then?

No I did not say that at any point or in any way, I apologize if what I wrote gave you that impression.

There will be unfairness, there is  pretty high chance that what happened to your kid was unfair. In the larger scheme of things it was a very minor unfairness.

As for the comments about my kids, those were comments about my kids and the benefits I know they enjoy, they were very specifically NOT a generalization.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/13/2019 at 9:42 AM, captain_crunch said:

^^ Charles Kushner got his son, Jared, into Harvard with a measly $2.5 million donation.

https://www.propublica.org/article/the-story-behind-jared-kushners-curious-acceptance-into-harvard

 

Went to school in town a few years before him, Chris Christie put his dad in jail. Can’t imagine why Chris got bounced from the transition team....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  I haven't seen any statement from any of the schools on what they are going to do with the students that came in thru the side door. Expulsion? That would be my take.

 

My #1 kid is at UCLA, my wife got a Master's at USC - maybe I should join the lawsuits.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always wondered how Stanford could afford all the nicest boats and sweet custom gear while teams like mine could barely afford to run their programs. All makes sense now and I’m sure they’re not the only ones. I’ll have a little extra pride now and a chip on my shoulder in races knowing I came from a shoestring budget team

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The elephant in this particular room is that even these super elite schools are willing to lower their admissions standards based on sports.

Lou Holtz's dirty little secret is that he had players at Notre Dame that couldn't get into Holy Cross.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Tcatman said:

Sorry,

you replied to this

 

Your response was....

"Its unfortunate,"

bgytr is pissed that in his opinion the merits for his kid were undervalued  and a non white kid was  pushed ahead...  aka affirmative action... and even better.... in 2019... oh... the horror of affirmative action is AS BAD as Purchasing a Seat or Purchasing a seat plus some fraud...

You then go on to make the standard defense of affirmative action in balancing two wrongs.... and selecting a student that is "a member of a protected class".... so ... yeah..... "its unfortunate"   

This is a terrible argument for this problem as well as not persuasive...... you are just on the opposite side of the time worn argument Merit versus affirmative action.       But NOW you are really screwed... because the actual reality  brought into focus  in 2019 is Merit vs Affirmative Action vs Purchasing a seat, vs Purchasing a seat plus fraud.  (the moral high ground has always been fuzzy)

The issue of course is the notion of Merit.... as the basis for distributing... essentially priceless spots at elite schools

I screwed up explaining my points in my rush to get out the door.....

Merit is undefined and unique for each institution based on what each values... and my second point... even if you break out one measure... eg SAT scores..... your ruler does not have enough precision.... you can't distinguish between all students with perfect SATs.... the ruler is inadequate.   Harvard could fill the class with these kids.  Trying to define Merit is an endless debate... much like how many angels dance on the head of a pin...   Have at it.

Fact of life... as the current circumstances demonstrate. American Higher Education is a badly regulated, highly twisted marketplace with obscure rules trying to allocate a scarce resource. ..   Nothing about it is FAIR...   The current system is about Perpetuating the notion of "the Best"  and bullshitting people that it is Fair to their kid and ... and because this is America...  based on "merit"   whatever "merit" means...    The Ivy league is the best because the Ivy league is the best  but historically, , every kid at Penn  or Cornell truly believes that they belong at a BETTER Ivy league school.. And of course   elite grads truly are the best and the brightest....  (reference Kennedy's Ivy League cabinet) cough cough!

If you cut the bullshit and priced seats at Harvard in a free market.... Would Harvard be "elite" or the Best anymore.  ??  Nope and that is why we keep the current BS system.

you write

I was very fortunate in my education options, and in my arrogance feel that I attended better :).

Was your choice more FAIR to all applicants then the alternatives or did they make your selection solely based on "merit"?  

Nope.  you also went with  the  Better / Best paradigm.... Not the  Fair...and Merit based paradigm that everyone wants to believe makes their shit not stink.. 

What is really needed is clear thinking about what we are doing here.

 

 

Ummmm.  The kid is not real.  Just a figment of gaytors imagination...  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, RATM said:

The elephant in this particular room is that even these super elite schools are willing to lower their admissions standards based on sports.

Lou Holtz's dirty little secret is that he had players at Notre Dame that couldn't get into Holy Cross.

It really was never a secret.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Tcatman said:

I was very fortunate in my education options, and in my arrogance feel that I attended better :).

Was your choice more FAIR to all applicants then the alternatives or did they make your selection solely based on "merit"?  

Nope.  you also went with  the  Better / Best paradigm.... Not the  Fair...and Merit based paradigm that everyone wants to believe makes their shit not stink.. 

What is really needed is clear thinking about what we are doing here.

 

Its an interesting point of view, I think I was pretty clear that I don't believe that the system is 'fair' . I agree that  I did not propose any solutions, not sure you did either.

I was very fortunate in my education options, they were definitely not fair under any meaningful definition of the word. My better/best comment was a joke (note the smiley face) I am well aware of the way elite college students regard the other elite schools.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Same same everywhere, nothing is illegal until you get caught. Shame.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites