hoppy

Port/Starboard after the finish

Recommended Posts

Boat A crosses the finish line on a port tack at the port end of the line in first place.

Boat B crosses the line in 2nd, 11 second later.

Boat C crosses the finish line on starboard tack a further 5 seconds back in 3rd.

Boats A & C then have a port starboard incident some seconds later. Boat A captain has a post win brain fade and tacks way too late, so boat C bares away and passes behind.

Boat C then protests against boat A. 

 

Boat A was clearly in the wrong, but the incident happened after both boats had crossed the finish line. Should the protest be thrown out?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Racing A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and
clears the finishing line
and marks or retires, or until the race committee
signals a general recall, postponement or abandonment.

PART 2
WHEN BOATS MEET

The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near
the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing.

However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one
of these rules, except rule 14 when the incident resulted in injury or
serious damage, or rule 24.1.

 

ie: throw it out.

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if they're both already clear of the line there's no penalty

however if they are still crossing the line they are still racing and a penalty can apply

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Racing A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and
clears the finishing line
and marks or retires, or until the race committee
signals a general recall, postponement or abandonment.

PART 2
WHEN BOATS MEET

The rules of Part 2 apply between boats that are sailing in or near
the racing area and intend to race, are racing, or have been racing.

However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one
of these rules, except rule 14 when the incident resulted in injury or
serious damage, or rule 24.1.

 

ie: throw it out.

thanks....

What is the definition of "clears the finishing line" . If it is that the boat has fully crossed the finish line, then we are fine.

I wonder if the boat was so focused on a potential port starboard or forcing us to tack that they missed that they had crossed the line.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hasn’t this been the subject of another thread not that long ago?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, hoppy said:

thanks....

What is the definition of "clears the finishing line" . If it is that the boat has fully crossed the finish line, then we are fine.

I wonder if the boat was so focused on a potential port starboard or forcing us to tack that they missed that they had crossed the line.

doesn't matter in your case.

 

Even if you assume you hadn't cleared the line, neither boat is 'racing' (they've finished), and Part 2 specifically says no penalty unless there was damage or injury.

However, a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one
of these rules, except rule 14 when the incident resulted in injury or
serious damage, or rule 24.1

yeh - ignore that.. but I think both have cleared the line. TJSoCal's response below.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, hoppy said:

Boat A crosses the finish line on a port tack at the port end of the line in first place.

Boat B crosses the line in 2nd, 11 second later.

Boat C crosses the finish line on starboard tack a further 5 seconds back in 3rd.

Boats A & C then have a port starboard incident some seconds later. Boat A captain has a post win brain fade and tacks way too late, so boat C bares away and passes behind.

Boat C then protests against boat A. 

 

Boat A was clearly in the wrong, but the incident happened after both boats had crossed the finish line. Should the protest be thrown out?

If the protest was filed in accordance with Rule 61 (proper hail, flag displayed, filed within time limit, etc.) it can't be "thrown out", it would have to be heard. But the PC could very well conclude that no rule was broken.

 

1 hour ago, hoppy said:

thanks....

What is the definition of "clears the finishing line" . If it is that the boat has fully crossed the finish line, then we are fine.

I wonder if the boat was so focused on a potential port starboard or forcing us to tack that they missed that they had crossed the line.

Case 127: "A boat clears the finishing line and marks when no part of her hull, crew or equipment is on the line, and no mark is influencing her choice of course." 

So if the incident occurred several boat lengths above the line (assuming that A and C continued on a close-hauled course after crossing the finish line) A could make a case that the finish marks were not influencing her choice of course at that point. So they were no longer racing and Rule 10 no longer applied (Preamble to Part 2).

Boat C would have to convince the PC that either A was still racing (Rule 10) or that C had not cleared the finish marks and was still racing and A while not racing had interfered with her  (Rule 24.1)

Absent collision and damage it's a pretty douchey protest, in my opinion.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Even if you assume you hadn't cleared the line, neither boat is 'racing' (they've finished), and Part 2 specifically says no penalty unless there was damage or injury.

 

 

See the definition of racing - you're still racing after you cross the finish line, until you've cleared the finishing line and marks.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, in_TO said:

That appeal does make it sound like you're not "clear of the finishing marks" until you've crossed outside of the line. I didn't find anything like that in World Sailing Cases or US Appeals. So A might be in more trouble if racing in Canada than in the US, but even in Canada I'd argue that several boat lengths above (or below, as in the appeal) was far enough that the marks weren't influencing choice of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
50 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

Absent collision and damage it's a pretty douchey protest, in my opinion.

Our feelings exactly. It was only a twilight race, a minor sprint series at the end of the summer. They are a "race boat" with carbon sails and we are a cruising boat with white sails.

Admittedly it was our 3rd win in a row and we won the main twilight summer series and with this race we started 2 minutes later after another PHS adjustment, plus will totally balls-up the start (1.5 min late)

The funny thing is that after the race when I asked the protesting owner if it was the P/S after the finish he made no comment. So we are yet to officially hear what the protest was. Is that normal? It really does reinforce the dickhead mentality of the owner.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why can’t some folks just lose with grace? 

After racing for several hours and crossing the line, you tend to take a moment to shift mode to cleaning up and de stressing. Especially after finishing first!

Boat C should have been more aware of their surroundings and not gotten into a port starboard 20 seconds after the finish with the race winner. It’s obvious that boat A was not racing for boat C to catch up so quickly. 

Poor sportsmanship award goes to boat C.

Case dismissed 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Sail4beer said:

Why can’t some folks just lose with grace? 

After racing for several hours and crossing the line, you tend to take a moment to shift mode to cleaning up and de stressing. Especially after finishing first!

Boat C should have been more aware of their surroundings and not gotten into a port starboard 20 seconds after the finish with the race winner. It’s obvious that boat A was not racing for boat C to catch up so quickly. 

Poor sportsmanship award goes to boat C.

Case dismissed 

Wait, the evidence is that the incident occurred "some seconds" after C finished.  C has every right to finish quickly in spite of A loitering at the finish line on port tack.  I wouldn't have protested if I was C, but I certainly would have said something amusingly sarcastic on the water to A, and if A didn't subsequently show contrition for their "brain fade" then they were the poor sports.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, dash34 said:

Wait, the evidence is that the incident occurred "some seconds" after C finished.  C has every right to finish quickly in spite of A loitering at the finish line on port tack.  I wouldn't have protested if I was C, but I certainly would have said something amusingly sarcastic on the water to A, and if A didn't subsequently show contrition for their "brain fade" then they were the poor sports.

A continued on port tack, moving away from the line and the tower end (and breakwater). C crossed the line 16 seconds after A. Not really sure how far from the line we had moved, but certainly enough distance for C to clear the line at full speed before the P/S occurred. 

We did throw a crash tack when the helm finally realised his oops, but that made WOIX's tack look early.

I would have thought that the reasonable thing to do was protest but also talk to us about, not keeping quiet when I asked for confirmation that the PS was the reason.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, hoppy said:

We did throw a crash tack when the helm finally realised his oops, but that made WOIX's tack look early.

 

oops - that let the cat out of the bag!

 

as you say - the reasonable thing to do is have a quiet chat in the bar afterwards and remind you to watch where you're going .. hardly something getting knickers in a twist about.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Sail4beer said:

Why can’t some folks just lose with grace? 

After racing for several hours and crossing the line, you tend to take a moment to shift mode to cleaning up and de stressing. Especially after finishing first!

Boat C should have been more aware of their surroundings and not gotten into a port starboard 20 seconds after the finish with the race winner. It’s obvious that boat A was not racing for boat C to catch up so quickly. 

Poor sportsmanship award goes to boat C.

Case dismissed 

We had a similar incident  early last summer. The Commodore at my club asked me to take his twin redheaded granddaughters out for a race. They were just back from the all girl college  they attended with a few of their friends from the all girl soccer team. As usual we finished first with the second place boat just behind us. The girls who were wearing the skimpiest bikinis I had ever seen were very excited at our first place and started congratulating each other and me in a super friendly way when two of them all of a sudden... oh wait EAZE is at the door, gotta go 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, hoppy said:

The funny thing is that after the race when I asked the protesting owner if it was the P/S after the finish he made no comment. So we are yet to officially hear what the protest was. Is that normal? It really does reinforce the dickhead mentality of the owner.  

You can't be penalized without a hearing, and the PC is required to notify you of a hearing and give you time to prepare.

If you haven't heard anything I suspect the other fellow never filed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, hoppy said:

A continued on port tack, moving away from the line and the tower end (and breakwater). C crossed the line 16 seconds after A. Not really sure how far from the line we had moved, but certainly enough distance for C to clear the line at full speed before the P/S occurred. 

We did throw a crash tack when the helm finally realised his oops, but that made WOIX's tack look early.

I would have thought that the reasonable thing to do was protest but also talk to us about, not keeping quiet when I asked for confirmation that the PS was the reason.

At 16 seconds apart, if both boats were hard on the wind on opposite tacks and continued so after the crossing the line there shouldn’t have been a close crossing. My guess is boat A may have eased sheets/ borne away  after crossing the line to get to the other end. If they did this close to the line,  boat C may have been concerned they were not going to cross the line before tacking on to port and therefore were keen to continue on starboard to ensure they finished. 

 

Depending on how close it was and whether boat C had to alter course, the crash tack by boat A may have prevented any breach the RRS even if the RRS does apply. Poor form by boat A and while it’s a pretty casual race I don’t blame boat C for filing a protest. Even if the protest is unsuccessful I bet boat A never does it again. Given it happened so close to the line there is probably video footage of the incident from the race officer. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Skirmish said:

At 16 seconds apart, if both boats were hard on the wind on opposite tacks and continued so after the crossing the line there shouldn’t have been a close crossing. My guess is boat A may have eased sheets/ borne away  after crossing the line to get to the other end. If they did this close to the line,  boat C may have been concerned they were not going to cross the line before tacking on to port and therefore were keen to continue on starboard to ensure they finished. 

 

Depending on how close it was and whether boat C had to alter course, the crash tack by boat A may have prevented any breach the RRS even if the RRS does apply. Poor form by boat A and while it’s a pretty casual race I don’t blame boat C for filing a protest. Even if the protest is unsuccessful I bet boat A never does it again. Given it happened so close to the line there is probably video footage of the incident from the race officer. 

The finish was something like this although I fucked up the line length, it's more like 360 meters not 600. 

They were catching us but could not point as high and had to tack early. We were pointing close to the buoy at the tower end, so we tacked at the last second. Had boat C done their final tack earlier so they would cross the line near the buoy they probably would have forced us to tack or go behind, beating us.

It seems that this protest is going to arbitration (both owners and one protest committee). I believe that there is video from the tower so it should be clear as to whether this happened whilst C was racing or not.

Sketch.thumb.jpg.f96a7d0cb39efa36539be0d2310845c1.jpg

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's look at it from both directions, legalistically..... what would boat C need to prove for it to be an infringement, what would boat A need to prove for it NOT to be?

This one is fairly simple, hinging on the definition of FINISHED and of CLEARED the finish line. From your diagram, both had definitely finished, hulls & all gear crossed the line, but was any mark influencing their course?

If I were hearing this protest, I'd ask: Was there damage or injury?  Did the incident affect the races outcome? Then go on to hash out the issue of "cleared" ... if necessary.

It looks to me like the marks were not influencing either boats' course, so I would vote to dismiss the protest

Good comments, thanks all

FB- Doug

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

You can't be penalized without a hearing,

 

63.1 A boat or competitor shall not be penalized without a protest hearing, except as provided in rules 30.2, 30.3, 30.4, 64.3(d), 69, 78.2, A5 and P2.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

So like this?

p-sfinish.thumb.jpeg.4c79ab060acdc9ff21a85121c1690007.jpeg

looks better than my crappy drawing :)

That's how I think it went. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you were at the point where the right hand end of the line was abaft your beam, and/or you had no reason to turn back toward the finish line on your way home, I'd tell the arbitrator that you were no longer racing. And since your actions didn't impact the other boat's finish place or time you didn't interfere with them. 

Did the SIs specify arbitration?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

If you were at the point where the right hand end of the line was abaft your beam, and/or you had no reason to turn back toward the finish line on your way home, I'd tell the arbitrator that you were no longer racing. And since your actions didn't impact the other boat's finish place or time you didn't interfere with them. 

Did the SIs specify arbitration?

@hoppydidn't mention that to the bottom left of his "drawing" there is a rock breakwater and the marina is behind that breakwater

I am surprised the skipper didn't tack immediately after crossing the line in order to drop sails before motoring into the marina rather than continueing towards the breakwater

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
57 minutes ago, Rushman said:

@hoppydidn't mention that to the bottom left of his "drawing" there is a rock breakwater and the marina is behind that breakwater

I am surprised the skipper didn't tack immediately after crossing the line in order to drop sails before motoring into the marina rather than continueing towards the breakwater

wrong way around. The breakwater is top right in my drawing as we were sailing south to the finish. To get out of the way of boats that had finished and return to the marina, we had to continue on our course and pass the finish line on the right of my drawing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TJSoCal said:

If you were at the point where the right hand end of the line was abaft your beam, and/or you had no reason to turn back toward the finish line on your way home, I'd tell the arbitrator that you were no longer racing. And since your actions didn't impact the other boat's finish place or time you didn't interfere with them. 

Did the SIs specify arbitration?

Not sure. I think the arbitration is because it was after the finish. I guess they are hoping that with the finish line video and the rules, if it clearly shows that the incident happened where we think it did, then the protest will be dropped by the other owner. It will save dragging the protest committee members into the clubhouse for a protest from an insignificant twilight race.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, hoppy said:

wrong way around. The breakwater is top right in my drawing as we were sailing south to the finish. To get out of the way of boats that had finished and return to the marina, we had to continue on our course and pass the finish line on the right of my drawing. 

Oops, silly me. That makes sense

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

from your SI's (I'm not stalking, really..)

24 PROTESTS AND REQUESTS FOR REDRESS
24.1 Protests and requests for redress shall be lodged in accordance with RRS Part 5, Section A.
24.2 Protests shall be lodged at the RMYS Office not later than 1000 hrs on the next RMYS Office business day following the race.
24.3 Arbitration
(a) At the discretion of the Protest Committee, an arbitration meeting may be held under RRS Appendix T prior to a protest hearing involving an alleged breach of a rule of RRS Part 2 or rule 31.
24.4 Protests may be heard at the RMYS clubhouse at 1900 hrs on the first Thursday following the race, unless otherwise advised.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, hoppy said:

Not sure. I think the arbitration is because it was after the finish. I guess they are hoping that with the finish line video and the rules, if it clearly shows that the incident happened where we think it did, then the protest will be dropped by the other owner. It will save dragging the protest committee members into the clubhouse for a protest from an insignificant twilight race.

Rule 63 has no provision for arbitration, it says that a protestee is entitled to a hearing (a protest committee may be only one person, but would still have to go through the formalities of establishing validity,  taking evidence, etc.). Arbitration can only be invoked if it's in the Sailing Instructions.

Are you sure the protest was filed within the time limit? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

Rule 63 has no provision for arbitration, it says that a protestee is entitled to a hearing (a protest committee may be only one person, but would still have to go through the formalities of establishing validity,  taking evidence, etc.). Arbitration can only be invoked if it's in the Sailing Instructions.

Are you sure the protest was filed within the time limit? 

see Duncan's stalking post. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

i have video of the discussion at the bar that night..

Isn't that every bar in Australia, every night? ;-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

i have video of the discussion at the bar that night..

 

That was me at the end of the video throwing the chair. I got mainsheet trimmer good...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Arbitration meeting finished without any result as the protesting owner is staying firm. Sounds like he has a reputation for protesting. The finish line video was not show, so we are non the wiser as to whether we were where we think we were.

The protest will be heard on Tuesday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, hoppy said:

The Arbitration meeting finished without any result as the protesting owner is staying firm. Sounds like he has a reputation for protesting. The finish line video was not show, so we are non the wiser as to whether we were where we think we were.

The protest will be heard on Tuesday.

Under T3 the arbitrator is supposed to render an opinion as to what they believe a protest committee would decide - either that the protest was invalid, no boat would be penalized for breaking  a rule, or one or more boats would be penalized for breaking a rule. 

What did you tell the arbitrator, and what opinion did they issue? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does not sound like the arbitrator offer an opinion from my chat with the owner of the boat I was on. Although it did sound like he preferred that protest be dropped. The start video was not shown and that will be key to showing how far from the line we were and whether the other boat was racing.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

If you were at the point where the right hand end of the line was abaft your beam, and/or you had no reason to turn back toward the finish line on your way home, I'd tell the arbitrator that you were no longer racing. And since your actions didn't impact the other boat's finish place or time you didn't interfere with them. 

 

Huh,

Hadn't though of it that way, but it makes perfect sense.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, JohnMB said:
14 hours ago, TJSoCal said:

If you were at the point where the right hand end of the line was abaft your beam, and/or you had no reason to turn back toward the finish line on your way home, I'd tell the arbitrator that you were no longer racing. And since your actions didn't impact the other boat's finish place or time you didn't interfere with them. 

 

Huh,

Hadn't though of it that way, but it makes perfect sense.

Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.

There is nothing in rule 24.1 about interfere so as to affect a boat's place or score.

Interfere means just that, for example a give way boat that fails to keep clear interferes, but a give way boat (say a windward boat) that, while keeping clear puts dirty wind on a leeward boat, or a right of way boat that, for example lee-bows a give way boat also interferes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Brass said:

Sorry, doesn't make sense to me.

There is nothing in rule 24.1 about interfere so as to affect a boat's place or score.

Interfere means just that, for example a give way boat that fails to keep clear interferes, but a give way boat (say a windward boat) that, while keeping clear puts dirty wind on a leeward boat, or a right of way boat that, for example lee-bows a give way boat also interferes.

I think this is debatable, interfere is not defined, I was originally looking at it in the same way as you, but though TJ's way of looking at is was interesting and does make sense to me. Are there any cases on  this?

If your actions cannot in any way impact a boats race (because they happen after the boat has finished) to what extent have you interfered with them? Its very much a corner case since it can only be applied after a boat has finished but while she is still racing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, hoppy said:

Not sure. I think the arbitration is because it was after the finish. I guess they are hoping that with the finish line video and the rules, if it clearly shows that the incident happened where we think it did, then the protest will be dropped by the other owner. It will save dragging the protest committee members into the clubhouse for a protest from an insignificant twilight race.

First, it's not just an insignificant race. Every racer in every race should follow the rules. Without rules, the sport becomes meaningless and protests & hearings are how we do it. So go ahead and drag them in!

Reviewing video = good. I think the most likely result is that the protest will be dismissed anyway. Arbitration??

DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Interfere" isn't defined in RRS so we're left with the common definition. If we go with the definition "Prevent (a process or activity) from continuing or being carried out properly." and the process or activity is C finishing the race as quickly as possible, A didn't interfere with that. 

Brass, interested in your opinion as to whether either boat was still racing when this incident occurred. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, TJSoCal said:

"Interfere" isn't defined in RRS so we're left with the common definition. If we go with the definition "Prevent (a process or activity) from continuing or being carried out properly." and the process or activity is C finishing the race as quickly as possible, A didn't interfere with that. 

Brass, interested in your opinion as to whether either boat was still racing when this incident occurred. 

Its true that A did not interfere with C finish the ace as quickly as possible, however C was doing other things as well, for example they were sailing their course A did interfere with that

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Protest would be tossed.  If each yacht has "finished", then "racing" is over.  A protest could be filed but for what purpose.  Because the helmsman already had a beer in his hand and was celebrating and "oops, watch out our 2nd place boat is on starboard and we are on port?"

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many seconds after C crossed the line did the incident take place? Seems like if it's 5 you are in trouble if it's 15 than all is good. Somewhere in between......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you guys are going around in circles.

TJSoCal nailed it a while back in this thread.

On 3/14/2019 at 11:27 AM, TJSoCal said:

Case 127: "A boat clears the finishing line and marks when no part of her hull, crew or equipment is on the line, and no mark is influencing her choice of course." 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's the "Muchness of Queensland" rules, seems to be a place that erstwhile simple port/starboard encounters have amazing back stories... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ride2live said:

How many seconds after C crossed the line did the incident take place? Seems like if it's 5 you are in trouble if it's 15 than all is good. Somewhere in between......

Hopefully the video will answer...

If C (10m) was doing 6 knots then they would have cleared the line within 3.5 seconds, so after that we are in the clear :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Protest withdrawn :)

The owner of the protesting boat spoke to the owner of the 2nd place boat who told him the incident happened after the line.

It does make me think that he was concentrating on forcing us to tack or creating a PS that they missed that they had finished. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, LionessRacing said:

It's the "Muchness of Queensland" rules, seems to be a place that erstwhile simple port/starboard encounters have amazing back stories... 

did the Protestor .... have any..... special feelings of entitlement

if we are going to talk back storey then lets hope its a good one

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/14/2019 at 12:27 AM, VWAP said:

We had a similar incident  early last summer. The Commodore at my club asked me to take his twin redheaded granddaughters out for a race. They were just back from the all girl college  they attended with a few of their friends from the all girl soccer team. As usual we finished first with the second place boat just behind us. The girls who were wearing the skimpiest bikinis I had ever seen were very excited at our first place and started congratulating each other and me in a super friendly way when two of them all of a sudden... oh wait EAZE is at the door, gotta go 

pics-or-it-didnt-happen.jpg?w=450

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/16/2019 at 11:34 AM, hoppy said:

Protest withdrawn :)

The owner of the protesting boat spoke to the owner of the 2nd place boat who told him the incident happened after the line.

It does make me think that he was concentrating on forcing us to tack or creating a PS that they missed that they had finished. 

.. so rather than being an arse, it may have just been a little misunderstanding.

Exactly why people should chat in the bar before going through with a protest. Barbitration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

.. so rather than being an arse, it may have just been a little misunderstanding.

Exactly why people should chat in the bar before going through with a protest. Barbitration.

Yeah... After the twilight everyone stays for dinner and presentations. 

This Wednesday should be interesting. Last race of the 3 race series and we are leading and the other boat, 3rd. Let it blow hard....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now