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Plenipotentiary Tom

Experts On Haters

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Takes One To Know One, it turns out.

The Montgomery Advertiser wrote about the racism and sexism at Morris Dees' Southern Poverty Law Center some years back, so it's not like this is new or was unknown.

The fascinating part is that no one seems to want to say exactly what Mr. Dees did. Making whatever he did that much more interesting to me.

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10 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Too old?

Or something.

Quote

 

When asked if he was offered the chance to resign or retire, the 82-year-old said, "I've told you all I can tell you."

Dees' biography appeared scrubbed from the SPLC's website as news broke of his termination on Thursday afternoon. 

 

I'm not sure aging would justify removing the founder's bio from the website. Most people age. I think he might have done something other than aging.

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No matter the mission of the parent organization, groups of people may include assholes. I guess another one has just been (incompletely) outed.

Spring housecleaning brings fresh air and new life into our lives. Well done SPLC. Continue the good fight.

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3 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Takes One To Know One, it turns out.

The Montgomery Advertiser wrote about the racism and sexism at Morris Dees' Southern Poverty Law Center some years back, so it's not like this is new or was unknown.

The fascinating part is that no one seems to want to say exactly what Mr. Dees did. Making whatever he did that much more interesting to me.

Seems odd that founders and leaders are ousted after a while when their organization becomes more political activist than advocate.

The same thing happened with Greenpeace, The Sierra Club and some of the climate organizations.

 

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

Seems odd that founders and leaders are ousted after a while when their organization becomes more political activist than advocate.

The same thing happened with Greenpeace, The Sierra Club and some of the climate organizations.

 

Most organizations slide into political activism. PTA, SPCA, ACLU, AFL-CIO, NEA etc. 

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At 82 the guy may have started going off course. I know from experience with some older people that long suppressed nasty ideas from 70 years ago suddenly come back when their internal filter becomes defective. 

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9 minutes ago, warbird said:

Most organizations slide into political activism. PTA, SPCA, ACLU, AFL-CIO, NEA etc. 

Fox

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12 hours ago, Saorsa said:

Seems odd that founders and leaders are ousted after a while when their organization becomes more political activist than advocate.

The same thing happened with Greenpeace, The Sierra Club and some of the climate organizations.

 

Well without new blood you risk your organisation becoming a cult..or an anachronism.

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3 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

Well without new blood you risk your organisation becoming a cult..or an anachronism.

Hillary!!!!!

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1 minute ago, warbird said:

Hillary!!!!!

Agreeded..Time you got over her.:rolleyes:

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16 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

At 82 the guy may have started going off course. I know from experience with some older people that long suppressed nasty ideas from 70 years ago suddenly come back when their internal filter becomes defective. 

No, according to the Montgomery Advertiser series, he started a couple of decades ago at least.

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21 hours ago, warbird said:

Most organizations slide into political activism. PTA, SPCA, ACLU, AFL-CIO, NEA etc. 

True.  When they find they can't convince people of the correctness of their position they decide that force is necessary.

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1 hour ago, Saorsa said:

True.  When they find they can't convince people of the correctness of their position they decide that force is necessary.

NRA, AIPAC, .................

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36 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

NRA, AIPAC, .................

Is that supposed to mean something?  I find it true of all organizations that turn to political activism.  They have lost focus on their primary basis for existence.

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46 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

Is that supposed to mean something?  I find it true of all organizations that turn to political activism.  They have lost focus on their primary basis for existence.

Just checking for consistency. Also - turn to violence?

I contribute to a PAC that AOPA runs. Are they violent?

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33 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Just checking for consistency.

You know who you are talking to, right? There's no consistency, there' s just rightwing revisionism to meet the political needs of the moment. See below.

On 3/16/2019 at 8:06 AM, Saorsa said:

Seems odd that founders and leaders are ousted after a while when their organization becomes more political activist than advocate.

The same thing happened with Greenpeace, The Sierra Club and some of the climate organizations.

The Sierra Club? The Sierra Club was explicitly political activist at it's founding, campaigning for the formation of national parks and land preservation in the Sierra Nevada. A notable controversy was Hetchy reservoir. This was all under founder John Muir. Now - in your lifetime it decreased explicit activism after this initial period, only to renew activism in the 60s, but that doesn't mean your narrative is any less ignorant wish fulfillment bullshit.

 

I'm glad "explicitly activist" is now bad when applied to rightwing hate groups....funny how libertarians always have race problems.

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Just now, kent_island_sailor said:

Just checking for consistency. Also - turn to violence?

I contribute to a PAC that AOPA runs. Are they violent?

Only to certain folks' ears.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Just checking for consistency. Also - turn to violence?

I contribute to a PAC that AOPA runs. Are they violent?

Force does not require violence, merely control of the actions of others.  Like "the force of law".

 

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Your usual disingenuousness is Eva Dent in that statement. Or is it simply ignorance?

Force by definition has violence to back it up.

Like "the force of law".

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Your usual disingenuousness is Eva Dent in that statement. Or is it simply ignorance?

Force by definition has violence to back it up.

Like "the force of law".

You do realize you just agreed with the whole 'taxation is violence' argument right?

 

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51 minutes ago, cmilliken said:
4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Your usual disingenuousness is Eva Dent in that statement. Or is it simply ignorance?

Force by definition has violence to back it up.

Like "the force of law".

You do realize you just agreed with the whole 'taxation is violence' argument right?

Not to mention "regulation is violence" as well, which would include favorites like banning and confiscating.

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11 hours ago, frenchie said:

Is the "Ann", Ann Coulter?  And then there's Gavin... and Tommy... holy fuck, Australia, don't pat yourselves on the back just yet.  Blocking Milo's a good start, but you have plenty more work to do before you can claim hate-mongering idiots aren't welcome there.


Don't forget Morris Dees.

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The Alamo

The Maine

Pearl Bailey

9/11

I'm getting tired of people what I am supposed to remember.

 

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5 hours ago, cmilliken said:

You do realize you just agreed with the whole 'taxation is violence' argument right?

It is ultimately backed up by the threat of "violence" - like all laws.

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Well I hate your feeble attempts at spelling.

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Somewhere in West Vancouver children playing on a lawn are missing an angry old socialist to yell at them.

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SPLC: A Terrible Place To Work & Place That Does Terrible Work
 

Quote

 

...

But the SPLC's hate tally is incredibly suspect, as left-of-center writer Nathan Robinson explained in a terrific article for Current Affairs. According to the SPLC's hate map, there were more than 1,000 hate groups in the U.S. in 2018—nearly twice as many as existed in 2000. The number has increased every year since 2014.

The map is littered with dots that provide more information on each specific group, and this is where the SPLC gives away the game. Consider a random state—Oklahoma, for example, is home to nine distinct hate groups, by the SPLC's count. Five of them, though, are black nationalist groups: the Nation of Islam, Israel United in Christ, etc. The SPLC counts each chapter of these groups separately, so the Nation of Islam counts as two separate hate groups within Oklahoma (its various chapters in other states are also tallied separately). The map makes no attempt to contextualize all of this—no information is given on the relative size or influence of each group.

In his piece, Robinson describes the map as an "outright fraud," and it's hard to argue with him:

In fact, when you actually look at the hate map, you find something interesting: Many of these "groups" barely seem to exist at all. A "Holocaust denial" group in Kerrville, Texas called "carolynyeager.net" appears to just be a woman called Carolyn Yeager. A "male supremacy" group called Return of Kings is apparently just a blog published by pick-up artist Roosh V and a couple of his friends, and the most recent post is an announcement from six months ago that the project was on indefinite hiatus. Tony Alamo, the abusive cult leader of "Tony Alamo Christian Ministries," died in prison in 2017. (Though his ministry's website still promotes "Tony Alamo's Unreleased Beatles Album.") A "black nationalist" group in Atlanta called "Luxor Couture" appears to be an African fashion boutique. "Sharkhunters International" is one guy who really likes U-boats and takes small groups of sad Nazis on tours to see ruins and relics. And good luck finding out much about the "Samanta Roy Institute of Science and Technology," which—if it is currently operative at all—is a tiny anti-Catholic cult based in Shawano, Wisconsin.

Sloppily tallying hate in service of a greater narrative is par for the course at the SPLC. The group's report on Trump-inspired schoolyard bullying is similarly flawed: Its survey was unscientific, and based on anecdotes reported by members of the SPLC's mailing list.

 

Nothing sparks political action like fear.

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8 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

SPLC: A Terrible Place To Work & Place That Does Terrible Work
 

Nothing sparks political action like fear.

I had a work colleague describe a Klan rally he eye witnessed.  I had a case in which two black men were beaten to a pulp by some white men while sharing beers.  I do think SPLC has exaggerated and thereby discredited themselves.  I am glad to see a housecleaning there.  But don't kid yourself, hate crime is very real.

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5 minutes ago, hasher said:

I had a work colleague describe a Klan rally he eye witnessed.  I had a case in which two black men were beaten to a pulp by some white men while sharing beers.  I do think SPLC has exaggerated and thereby discredited themselves.  I am glad to see a housecleaning there.  But don't kid yourself, hate crime is very real.

And if it's not, there are always those Nigerian brothers.

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3 minutes ago, Mid said:
Quote

The Southern Poverty Law Center, a hate watchdog, labeled FAIR a hate group “because it promotes hatred of immigrants, especially non-white ones.”

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/04/julie-kirchner-dhs-immigration/amp


Heh. They are the experts.

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17 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

I wonder if the SPLC will send a delegation to Sri Lanka?

They're the experts on haters and it seems that some sorting is needed.

You really struggle with non gun threads..

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On 4/22/2019 at 9:18 PM, Fakenews said:

You really struggle with non gun threads..

Indeed, but nothing I can say makes them anywhere near as interesting as gun threads.

 

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On 3/17/2019 at 2:28 PM, cmilliken said:

propensity to bang colleges

He was banging colleges?  Were they Ivy league colleges or just run of the mill state colleges?

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2 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

He was banging colleges?  Were they Ivy league colleges or just run of the mill state colleges?

HA!

Is there a statute of limitations on an autocorrect excuse?  COLLEAGUE :)

 

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5 minutes ago, cmilliken said:
8 minutes ago, Shootist Jeff said:

He was banging colleges?  Were they Ivy league colleges or just run of the mill state colleges?

HA!

Is there a statute of limitations on an autocorrect excuse?  COLLEAGUE :)

 

Sorry, I just saw it.....  :P

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3 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Indeed, but nothing I can say makes them anywhere near as interesting as gun threads.

 

I suppose.  As long as you find conversations with yourself interesting that is..

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2 hours ago, Fakenews said:

I suppose.  As long as you find conversations with yourself interesting that is..

I could always liven things up by hijacking this one with material from a gun thread. Like this:

On 4/17/2019 at 4:57 AM, Importunate Tom said:
On 1/24/2019 at 5:30 AM, Importunate Tom said:

The Cert Petition
 

Quote

 

The question presented is:

Whether the City’s ban on transporting a licensed, locked, and unloaded handgun to a home or shooting range outside city limits is consistent with the Second Amendment, the Commerce Clause, and the constitutional right to travel.

 

Not presented to the court, but still worth wondering about: why are hoplophobes so darn fearful that they can't tolerate a licensed, locked, and unloaded gun being carried outside city limits?

On 4/16/2019 at 10:27 PM, Fakenews said:

This terrified man left the house with a gun in his diaper bag.  He’s dead and his daughter is scarred for life.  

2nd amendment in home only.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/16/us/diaper-bag-gun-death/index.html


So do you think New York is too lax in allowing unloaded, licensed, and registered guns to be taken to a single local shooting range?


Have at those New Yawkahs and their lax gun laws, Gator!

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3 hours ago, cmilliken said:

HA!

Is there a statute of limitations on an autocorrect excuse?  COLLEAGUE :)

Yes there is - right up until the time the post is submitted.

After that the spelling & grammar police are called in.

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Canada may have some fake haters, eh?

Is there a Great Northern Poverty Law Center to raise money off look into this?
 

Quote

 

An anti-Semitic attack originally called "the most brazen" the city had seen was staged by the owners of the restaurant that reported it, Winnipeg police say.

All three members of the family that owns BerMax Caffé and Bistro on Corydon Avenue have been arrested and charged with public mischief since the incident was initially reported last week. The family, however, insists they didn't fake anything.

 

 

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Uh oh.

Another departure
 

Quote

 

Earlier this month, we learned that the SPLC had dismissed its cofounder and chief litigator, Morris Dees, for unspecified reasons. In explaining the organization’s rationale for ending a 50-year relationship with a personality which had become so strongly identified with them, then-president Richard Cohen said that the organization was “committed to ensuring that our workplace embodies the values we espouse—truth, justice, equity, and inclusion. When one of our own fails to meet those standards, no matter his or her role in the organization, we take it seriously and must take appropriate action.”

At the end of last week, Cohen informed his staff that he, too, was leaving the organization, along with the center’s legal director and deputy legal director. These departures underscore that the issues at SPLC have been systemically enabled and not limited to one individual’s bad behavior.

...

Writing last week in the New Yorker, Bob Moser, a former SPLC staff member, recalled that when he went to work at SPLC in 2001, the racial dynamic “quickly became apparent: a fair number of what was then about a hundred employees were African American, but almost all of them were administrative and support staff—‘the help,’ one of my black colleagues said pointedly. The ‘professional staff’—the lawyers, researchers, educators, public-relations officers, and fundraisers—were almost exclusively white.”

It was the reality of this toxic environment that sparked senior attorney Meredith Horton to resign in a memo to Cohen that stressed “the hardships women and employees of color faced at SPLC.” Following Horton’s resignation, a staff group amplified her message, emailing Cohen, according to the New York Times, their concerns about “the small number of black people in leadership ranks and that many employees had observed that people of color had been ‘pushed out, fired, removed from positions of leadership” or had to leave ‘due to discrimination and a lack of opportunities.’”

 

Rotting from the head like any fish.

 

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Outsourcing Hater Expertise
 

Quote

 

Last week, the Poynter Institute for Media Studies, a non-profit journalism and research organization, published a list of 500 unreliable new websites. But the list, which included many conservative news and think tank websites, was itself unreliable, and Poynter has since retracted it.

How exactly the list found its way onto the Poynter website in the first place is a bit of a mystery. Poynter confirmed that its author, Barrett Golding, is a freelancer rather than an employee, but did not answer other questions about the process of greenlighting this project.

Golding's LinkedIn account lists him as a freelance podcast producer for the Southern Poverty Law Center. The SPLC did not respond to my questions about whether other SPLC staff had any influence or involvement over the list. Golding did not immediately respond to my request for comment, either. According to his Twitter feed, he works with the SPLC's "Teaching Tolerance" project. He was formerly a research fellow at the Donald W. Reynolds Journalism Institute and a producer for NPR.

 

Not too reliable about actually being tolerant, I guess proving the old saw that those who can't do teach.

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23 hours ago, bridhb said:

Think of it, we have a president that is banned from operating a charitable foundation.  What does that tell you about his finances?  


Hey, it happens. The reasons are not always financial.

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13 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Is it alright if I dredge up actual racism from libertarians? https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/07/ron-paul-racist-caricature-tweet-republican-pattern.html

plenty more of that bullshit from the clownshow party.


Sure it's alright and would tend to distract from legitimate, non-racist criticism of Kamala Harris' attitude toward power, which seems to have been the intent.

I'd say that

On 2/11/2019 at 8:57 PM, Importunate Tom said:

 staffers reflect their bosses and that line didn't write itself.

Or, in the case you cited, that cartoon didn't post itself. And Ron Paul has a history with staffers writing racist stuff in his newsletters. It's disturbing but I guess that's what you get if you steal staff from the Southern Poverty Law Center, huh? Oh, right, the racism in the Poverty Palace is to be ignored, not construed as "anyone who fights for civil rights must be racists like they are."

 

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13 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:
20 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:
21 hours ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

Those nigra wimminfolk jus cain’t tell the truth. 

Hooboy. If you thought having Obummer in the White House caused a flurry of racist bullshit, hold onto your hats. 

Yeah, if she's elected we will probably see the same "you must be a racist" bullshit in response to any criticism.

Good thing you righties are all mind-readers. It's almost like you know about this stuff without even thinking about it! ...oh wait...

- DSK


Yes, I'm accustomed to partisans from both halves of the Duopoly attacking me as either a hippie dopehead Soros lover or a fascist, racist, TeamR lover, depending on which Duopoly prohibition program I dare to insult.

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On 5/2/2019 at 9:21 PM, Importunate Tom said:

Writing last week in the New Yorker, Bob Moser, a former SPLC staff member, recalled that when he went to work at SPLC in 2001, the racial dynamic “quickly became apparent: a fair number of what was then about a hundred employees were African American, but almost all of them were administrative and support staff—‘the help,’ one of my black colleagues said pointedly. The ‘professional staff’—the lawyers, researchers, educators, public-relations officers, and fundraisers—were almost exclusively white.”

It was the reality of this toxic environment that sparked senior attorney Meredith Horton to resign in a memo to Cohen that stressed “the hardships women and employees of color faced at SPLC.” Following Horton’s resignation, a staff group amplified her message, emailing Cohen, according to the New York Times, their concerns about “the small number of black people in leadership ranks and that many employees had observed that people of color had been ‘pushed out, fired, removed from positions of leadership” or had to leave ‘due to discrimination and a lack of opportunities.’”

I wonder if they enlisted "the help" to make some extra calls?

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Is there an echo in here?

You've chosen to ignore content by Importunate Tom. Options

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Would someone thank Sloopy for demonstrating how little people here really care about racism when caring isn't politically convenient?

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4 hours ago, Raz'r said:

Dylan, it’s not that all republicans are racist, but all racists are Republican 


Wow, I didn't know TeamR had taken over the Poverty Palace.

How do you know this?

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11 hours ago, badlatitude said:
I can't find any sympathy for the GOP, they have brought this contempt upon themselves.
 
By Leonard Pitts Jr.
Baltimore Sun |
Jul 28, 2019

 

Here's how The Southern Poverty Law Center defines a hate group.

It is, they say, “an organization that — based on its official statements or principles, the statements of its leaders, or its activities — has beliefs or practices that attack or malign an entire class of people, typically for their immutable characteristics.” That definition is offered preparatory to an explosive question:

Is the Republican Party a hate group?


They're the experts and should know.

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16 hours ago, Swimsailor said:

Not all  Trump supporters are racists but all racists are Trump supprters. 


And that's how the Poverty Palace got away with their discriminatory practicies for so many decades.

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Is there anybody out there?

Hello!

Hello!

 

You've chosen to ignore content by Repastinate Tom. Options

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You've chosen to ignore content by Repastinate Tom. Options

 

 

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19 hours ago, jocal505 said:

The SPLC is hard on mindless rednecks. The SPLC has done a ton of good work, so cheap, sweeping innuendo is poor form here, IMO. 

You are a tricky guy, a liar who preaches against liars, and like that.  You are very annoying, so let's apply the Tom standards (your good angels) to the daily dogballs.  You are a known commodity, and you are on a roll around here.

If Moris Dees had tossed around half a dozen forms of race baiting, he would have been canned long  before the time MLK applied for a gun permit around here.


Huh?

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27 minutes ago, Plenipotentiary Tom said:


Huh?

I am, not claiming you are a hater, as such, so what are we doing here? 

You have the nerve to trash the SPLC, but you are a shameless race-baiter, for shits and giggles. My observastion is that the SPL:C would reject you as being cut from the same cloth as the Dees matter. (The SPLC now has a real-time, direct program which averts ongoing, sketchy racist misunderstandings.)

Quote

Proudly Featuring Dred Scott to the Sailors, in 2019

 

Search > Dred > Tom Ray

 

  1. ...people likeDred Scott. Assuming gun rights for some does not exclude them for the rest, much as you might wish it did.May 20, 2018
  2. TheDred Scott case was well before 1974 and said that citizens could keep and carry arms wherever they went. Just because you don't read the cases you like to discuss doesn't mean the rest of us join you in your ignorance.October 30
  3. ...fromDred Scott to Jack Miller to Dick Heller and then Otis McDonald, none of the people whose gun rights have been discussed by the Supreme Court were in an organized militia unit at the time. Possibly because "the people" meant and means "the people." I don't see how that's inconsistent with...October 9
  4. ...I have agreed that the result inDred Scott is but that avoids my question. Where do you suppose that bold part at the end came from? The question can have an answer whether you agree with the bolded part or not. Where did it come from?August 15
  5. ...as the Beard andDred Scott cases, among others, have shown over and over.August 8
  6. ...why do you suppose the Supreme Court thought it applied to Jack Miller and could apply toDred Scott if they were not in any militia? I think it's because they're "the people." You know, like illegal immigrants.August 7
  7. ...racist application of laws to either of them would be as wrong as it was with MLK orDred Scott.July 15
  8. ...And why useDred Scott's picture? Do you enjoy reliving the glory days when blacks could not be considered citizens because June 14
  9. ...The reason was the same one that SCOTUS used to denyDred Scott the right to keep and carry arms wherever he went. Bull Gator, I hope you appreciate my effort to split this up into several posts over multiple days.June 6
  10. ...Also notable in his absence:Dred Scott and what the Supreme Court had to say about why black people could not be full citizens. I can see why this guy is jocal's favorite cherry picker. Leaves those bad ones for the squirrels.May 31
  11. ...I'll take a wild guess that you might be talking about decisions likeDred Scott v Sanford. Or, as my elk call it, The big problem with recognizing black people as citizens was: None of which seem to be problems to me. Not even that last one. But I'm not sure what this...May 17
  12. ...I'd suggest starting with what the Supreme Court had to say on the issue when it came toDred Scott and then work forward toward the present day.April 15
  13. ...Even the minority agreed: That's why Justice Taney was worried so many years ago thatDred Scott might be able to "keep and carry arms" if he were considered a citizen. Our Supreme Court knew in 1856 what "the right of the people to keep and bear arms" meant to him.March 27
  14. ...it's hard to explain what Justice Taney had to say aboutDred Scott being able to "keep and carry arms" or to explain why they heard Jack Miller's case in the first place. Those are a couple of reasons Lawrence Tribe rejected that idea before the Supreme Court did.March 22
  15. ..Or possiblyDred Scott? Catch up. Lawrence Tribe figured out that "the people" means "the people" before the Supreme Court did in the case of noted militiaman Dick Heller and his 9 round revolver.March 22

 

 

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