Paul Koch

Rapido Trimarans - 2 x New Folding Models Coming !

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12 hours ago, Pantouf said:

Paul Koch, how come the 40 is so much faster to build? As far as I can read back in this thread, the hull 001 of the 50 has been "in built" since February of this year? and it is not finished yet (well nearly I suppose).  Yet the hull 001 of the 40, you just started and is planned for delivery in November/December? Is there such in difference in the build process to make such a difference? Or is the experience of building the 50 a great help in building the 40? Can you say something about that? 

Also, how are these boats transported to Europe or the US? I would imagine on a ship? Is that with or without a mast?

Sorry for all these question, I am just very curious.

 

Maybe there is a element of boat builders optimism in the projected finish date for the 40 . Though we have overcome all the challenges of building such unique boats with the 50 and a huge amount of this knowledge is directly transferable to the 40 . The end is definitely in sight for the 50 and the main hull and float molds are finished on the 40 . 

The 40 is a smaller boat which helps a lot and the loads on the 40 are half that are on the 50 so everything is lighter and simpler . Nov/Dec will probably slip to January but we are hiring people as fast as we can find good ones to increase our production capability. We have also invested in more CNC cutting technology for our prepreg and carbon cutting department . 

Yes the boats are mostly shipped out of here though a couple of customers want to start their world cruise in Vietnam . The 40 main hull fits on one flatrack( slightly over width and over height ) and in one high cube container . 40 mast is made in 2 pieces to fit in the container with the floats and beams .

 

 

 

 

 

DSC_0941.JPG

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On 8/19/2020 at 2:48 AM, Paul Koch said:

The first Rapido 50 will leave the factory in September 2020 . The first 40 , November / December . If you want one you will have to join the line . We have sold 2 x Rapido 50's and 5 x Rapido 40"s so far so next available boat is June 2021. There is a long list of people waiting to see the first boat of each model so I think we have nailed it this time . In case you have not seen it here is the layout of the Rapido 40 

 

RT40_002_INTERIOR_GA.pdf

Hey Paul, so did the Rapido 50 leave your factory? As I would love to see photos of the finished boat. I am really curious to see the boat folding in. Must be pretty cool to watch that happen. How did you test that? In the water? or already in the factory?

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On 10/9/2020 at 9:28 PM, Pantouf said:

Hey Paul, so did the Rapido 50 leave your factory? As I would love to see photos of the finished boat. I am really curious to see the boat folding in. Must be pretty cool to watch that happen. How did you test that? In the water? or already in the factory?

Not yet , another couple of weeks , awfully close , still stuff everywhere but will have finished photos soon ! Folding test done in the factory  but will video it in the water during sea trials . 

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Excellent, can´t wait! 

Assuming the Rapido 50 has a carbon mast, did Rapido make the mast? Or do you have a mast made by a mast builder?

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On 9/14/2020 at 8:39 PM, Paul Koch said:

 Nov/Dec will probably slip to January but we are hiring people as fast as we can find good ones to increase our production capability. 

On 10/4/2020 at 5:10 PM, EarthBM said:

C081EF66-4261-41DB-8F67-E3F0894DD1D6.jpeg

 

Since this seems to be a running unpaid advertisement I just want to reiterate that my boat was manufactured by this company (triacComposites).  The workmanship is shoddy (voids) and the finish is very poor (take a look with a boroscope in any non living spaces).  Significant manufacturing errors were made by triac and triac company made only half hearted effort to correct their errors stating that legally they had no responsibility to the end consumer and that the manufacturer of record was the legal entity to whom I should look for redress.  While legally, this is true; but wouldn't you expect the entity who makes the error to feel responsible?   Consider this as negative feedback for triac composites company.

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13 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

The workmanship is shoddy (voids) and the finish is very poor (take a look with a boroscope in any non living spaces).  Significant manufacturing errors 

I recall this comment a while back... Would you please post pictures?  If not.. why not?

What size boat was it and who was the manufacturer?

How long ago was this?

Is TRIAC under the same ownership now as then?

Thanks!

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1 hour ago, 2flit said:

I recall this comment a while back... Would you please post pictures?  If not.. why not?

What size boat was it and who was the manufacturer?

How long ago was this?

Is TRIAC under the same ownership now as then?

Thanks!

 here is a link to a video posted on YouTube showing the boroscope inspection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPjOvU-3mHs Just to be clear, Rapido "may" be stationing inspectors at triac to avoid the manufacturing errors which occurred with my searail--I hope they do for their reputations' sake.    The ongoing discussion about production schedules and pressures frankly give me the willies since those same forces were the impetus for the errors in my boat. 

My purpose in this post is merely a warning that past boats built by triac for a manufacturer have had defects--as in any crap shoot, past performance cannot be used to predict future rolls of the dice.   I took a 30K risk which is not a big deal to me and I still enjoy the boat but it has been a long time getting the errors fixed.

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8 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Since this seems to be a running unpaid advertisement 

I thought it was more like sharing a cool project on the forum than an attempt to advertise. Lots of corners get cut in production boatbuilding, without which we wouldn't be able to afford them, but this seems like a high end product and my hunch is that the quality is good. That being said, the inside of your boat looks manky. Why did you buy it if the guts look that bad?

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7 minutes ago, Russell Brown said:

I thought it was more like sharing a cool project on the forum than an attempt to advertise. Lots of corners get cut in production boatbuilding, without which we wouldn't be able to afford them, but this seems like a high end product and my hunch is that the quality is good. That being said, the inside of your boat looks manky. Why did you buy it if the guts look that bad?

Why do you buy anything?  You trust that the guys who built it know what they are doing...which is the gist of my warning...I misplaced my trust to the tune of 30K...knowing this, what would you risk for something built by the same folks?  And yah, the inside looks pretty bad, but I didn't look there until I had leaks I couldn't explain.  Who would expect a boat builder of trimarans to bash together a daggerboard trunk made (supposedly) with mating moulds?  The design of my boat is good, the execution is not great.  I've experience enough with boats to fix most anything, so I took the risk.  I also don't go offshore anymore, so I can swim back home if I have to.

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If you ever said anything intelligent I might care but you don’t so I don’t.

The principal is a known quantity and the 60s are our and about doing their thing offshore. I know who I believe.

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16 minutes ago, Wess said:

.....and the 60s are our and about doing their thing offshore.

What direct (now second hand) reports back from the 60's do you have?

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5 hours ago, Wess said:

The principal is a known quantity and the 60s are our and about doing their thing offshore. I know who I believe.

Thanks.  That is one thing that makes sense from you.  Koch has been making tris forever it seems;  he grudgingly agreed to warranty repair of my F242 last century but didn't stand behind the work on my searail; what changed?  Where is the 60 that was being made at the same time as the shoddy work done on my boat in 2017?  That might give a better view of the quality of the new rapido's than my biased albeit video backed, warning.

 

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On 10/15/2020 at 1:37 PM, Pantouf said:

Excellent, can´t wait! 

Assuming the Rapido 50 has a carbon mast, did Rapido make the mast? Or do you have a mast made by a mast builder?

The first Rapido 50 is being fitted with a Carbon mast built by Marstrom in Sweden . It will meet the boat in Mallorca in December .

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On 10/17/2020 at 4:47 PM, 2flit said:

What direct (now second hand) reports back from the 60's do you have?

If you are in Auckland , go and find Romanza in Westhaven marina and talk to the owners who I am sure would happily tell you what they think about their Rapido 60 .

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MultiThom, no idea who you are (nor do I really want to know), but please don´t use this thread to get your own little vendetta. Seek psychological help, drink herbal tea and just deal with it. This, thusfar, had been a very constructive and positive thread, until you came along. 

What I learned from this thread is that Paul Koch has started and new company and venture, probably to get away from Corsair or whatever he was involved in in the past. In this thread, he has answered everybodies questions, posted lots of photos of all phases of the construction and gave detailed info about the build. Obviously to the Covid times we live in, made him to have some set backs time wise. Everybody has I would imagine, even Amazon. What I have seen from the photos shown here, has nothing to do with the little youtube video you are referring to. I don´t know what piece of crap you own, but it doesn´t look anything like what is shown in these photos in this thread. Also the fact Melvin & Morelli have given their blessing to this project, says a lot about Paul Koch and his company. As far as I know and heard, there are no known problems with the 60´s, so give the man a chance till at least these 50´s and 40´s have been delivered and can be judged. If they suck, then you can talk again. In the meantime, don´t abuse this interesting thread to spill your venom.

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So.... I had asked  "Wess" a bit ago about his comments about the 60's out sailing the globe, the implication being that they were doing this with aplomb. He never responded as to having a first hand account from another R60 owners experience.  So in light of something I might have heard third hand (which when 3rd handed is near meaningless) Is there a Rapido 60 owner out there who will comment on this. or someone who has sailed aboard and has direct experience communicated by an owner... or - I suppose - even someone in the industry who has assisted/repaired/consulted with a R60 owner and can comment directly on the issue of how multiple r60's have faired ? If not... the silence is odd, no?

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Well I have spoken to a 60 owner after they had completed around 5000nm and they were very happy with no problems. They could not speak highly enough about the boat or the builder.

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2 hours ago, Pantouf said:

MultiThom, no idea who you are (nor do I really want to know), but please don´t use this thread to get your own little vendetta. In the meantime, don´t abuse this interesting thread to spill your venom.

The only reason I HAVE a vendetta or venom is because triac corporation made a shoddy product.  Thought it is something somebody should know before plopping half million dollars or more down on a vessel that their lives depend on.  IF I ruin someone's reading pleasure with my "Manky" construction (as Russell called it), too bad but unlike most fake news, this is actual shoddy construction with evidence of the same for everyone to see.  

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16 hours ago, 2flit said:

So.... I had asked  "Wess" a bit ago about his comments about the 60's out sailing the globe, the implication being that they were doing this with aplomb. He never responded as to having a first hand account from another R60 owners experience.  So in light of something I might have heard third hand (which when 3rd handed is near meaningless) Is there a Rapido 60 owner out there who will comment on this. or someone who has sailed aboard and has direct experience communicated by an owner... or - I suppose - even someone in the industry who has assisted/repaired/consulted with a R60 owner and can comment directly on the issue of how multiple r60's have faired ? If not... the silence is odd, no?

How many 60s have been built? I don't think it's weird that no one out of a very small group of owners is posting about their boats. If I spent a couple million bucks on a trimaran, I don't believe I would be talking about it on SA. I'd be sailing it.

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And that is what Romanza is doing.  Ignore the trolls.  Paul is easy to reach off line if anyone has serious interest and has long been involved with and committed to this segment.  With Farrier now DOA and Corsair's parent seemingly more focused on Seawind catamarans, Rapido is the ray of light in the storm.

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I've certainly enjoyed Paul's updates on the production process of these cool new boats.

MultiThom's boat is indeed "manky", although there are multiple plausible explanations. For example, production is only as good as the training, quality and care of the people on the manufacturing floor at the time, and whoever commissioned the manufacturer of the SeaRail may have been pressuring the manufacturer (Triac) to hit specific price points.

The lower end market tends to target specific price points (i.e. people are only willing to spend a certain amount of money), whereby the higher end market tends to focus more on quality points, regardless of price. SeaRail is in the former category while the Rapido is the latter.  

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20 hours ago, bushsailor said:

Well I have spoken to a 60 owner after they had completed around 5000nm and they were very happy with no problems. They could not speak highly enough about the boat or the builder.

So that's excellent news. It is actually an amazing achievement for a new design to go 5,000 off-shore miles without a hitch. I know of  high end well respected manufacturers that have been building for years and can not accomplish this in some of their new designs. This must have been the R60 that went to Australia that Paul mentioned a while back as a boat I could possibly view. Thanks for posting!

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Question addressed to Paul K:  "Rapido 30"?  You and your team obviously have lots of work to do right now, but would this be considered as a possibility in the future?

 

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Another unknown quantity is the relationship between the builder and the design house/ customer...

If whoever was contracting Triac to build the Searail squeezed them on price timeline etc, they might have been a lot more likely to cut some corners.

It wouldn't be uncommon for the same builder to produce different quality based on the customer. And that could be a good thing if that's what the customer is asking for/willing to pay for.

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It would be good to know what caused the workmanship that Thom showed. I feel like he had a valid reason to display his views and I would probably have done the same had I found that kind of work after a purchase. I'm as exited as anyone about the Rapido series, but Thom's concerns are valid. 

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2 hours ago, Russell Brown said:

It would be good to know what caused the workmanship that Thom showed. I feel like he had a valid reason to display his views and I would probably have done the same had I found that kind of work after a purchase. I'm as exited as anyone about the Rapido series, but Thom's concerns are valid. 

 

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I dont know how anyone can judge anything from the picture quality of that video .It is a very confined part of the boat but obviously there is a leak in the daggerboard case and yes it should not happen . This boat was built during a period when I was off work for months having a heart operation ( not an excuse but we are all human )  and we only built fiberglass parts for Searail and they did the assembly of the boat in the US . They should have tested it better before delivery to Thom . . We were an outsourced subcontractor for these boats.

Triac used Searails  tooling , their design and their methods to put them together . Needless to say this design and tooling and method to put it together was suboptimal and nothing like how we prefer to build boats but we built it to the specs we were given , Searails owner was in the factory teaching the workers how to build the boats so maybe he should also bear some of the responsibility for the outcome .

Ok so someone did not do a perfect job on a super low budget boat . We took responsibility and one of our managers tried to get Thom to get quotes for the repair but he decided that we were all pricks and to quote him   " 

"Seriously, I don't need or want your assistance...instead I will be happy to tell anyone who asks what "quality" your production process represents. 

 James (both of you), this means I won't be driving the boat to Vacaville for an estimate.  I'd rather live with a leak than deal with these assholes. " 

Bottom line is , we tried to fix the issue but were told that in no uncertain terms that our assistance was not required !

Yes Thom maybe had a reason to be unhappy that his Searail 19 was not perfect in every aspect but if you knew the price we were expected to build them for  you would understand our reluctance to build any more of them. He has not helped himself with his attitude with his dealings with Triac's managers .

If he would like to resolve his leak problem I suggest that he contacts Triac's general manager who he has the email for and arrange to get a quote as requested  for the repair and we can all move on

.

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9 hours ago, Hovertank said:

Question addressed to Paul K:  "Rapido 30"?  You and your team obviously have lots of work to do right now, but would this be considered as a possibility in the future?

 

I have been asked this question on several occasions and the answer is , maybe , but not before we have finished the Rapido 40 and have it well and truly in production so don't expect to see one before 2022 .

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Thanks for that Paul. Now I'm sorry I said anything. Just for the record, I don't know anyone involved.

 

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9 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

I dont know how anyone can judge anything from the picture quality of that video .It is a very confined part of the boat but obviously there is a leak in the daggerboard case and yes it should not happen . This boat was built during a period when I was off work for months having a heart operation ( not an excuse but we are all human )  and we only built fiberglass parts for Searail and they did the assembly of the boat in the US . They should have tested it better before delivery to Thom . . We were an outsourced subcontractor for these boats.

Triac used Searails  tooling , their design and their methods to put them together . Needless to say this design and tooling and method to put it together was suboptimal and nothing like how we prefer to build boats but we built it to the specs we were given , Searails owner was in the factory teaching the workers how to build the boats so maybe he should also bear some of the responsibility for the outcome .

Ok so someone did not do a perfect job on a super low budget boat . We took responsibility and one of our managers tried to get Thom to get quotes for the repair but he decided that we were all pricks and to quote him   " 

"Seriously, I don't need or want your assistance...instead I will be happy to tell anyone who asks what "quality" your production process represents. 

 James (both of you), this means I won't be driving the boat to Vacaville for an estimate.  I'd rather live with a leak than deal with these assholes. " 

Bottom line is , we tried to fix the issue but were told that in no uncertain terms that our assistance was not required !

Yes Thom maybe had a reason to be unhappy that his Searail 19 was not perfect in every aspect but if you knew the price we were expected to build them for  you would understand our reluctance to build any more of them. He has not helped himself with his attitude with his dealings with Triac's managers .

If he would like to resolve his leak problem I suggest that he contacts Triac's general manager who he has the email for and arrange to get a quote as requested  for the repair and we can all move on

.

This is all true.  I did lash out at James, James and Paul--after months of wrangling.  I really can afford to pay for my own repairs but only wanted them to step up and accept responsibility.  Y'see, the only thing left out of the explanation is the root cause...Triac moved locations and in so doing, lost part of the daggerboard trunk mould.  Which they remade, but made wrong...so the boat halves would not go together as designed.  So during final assembly, some bozo decided to bash it to fit.  In the worst possible place.  Someone was more interested in production schedule than quality product (sounds like the Rapido's now, right?).  And, no knowledgeable oversight over production during a critical evolution.  They did this to every one of the boats in that production run.  Prior searails don't have this issue since they were made with original moulds.  I wouldn't own a dog bowl made from triac.    

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18 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

This is all true.  I did lash out at James, James and Paul--after months of wrangling.  I really can afford to pay for my own repairs but only wanted them to step up and accept responsibility.  Y'see, the only thing left out of the explanation is the root cause...Triac moved locations and in so doing, lost part of the daggerboard trunk mould.  Which they remade, but made wrong...so the boat halves would not go together as designed.  So during final assembly, some bozo decided to bash it to fit.  In the worst possible place.  Someone was more interested in production schedule than quality product (sounds like the Rapido's now, right?).  And, no knowledgeable oversight over production during a critical evolution.  They did this to every one of the boats in that production run.  Prior searails don't have this issue since they were made with original moulds.  I wouldn't own a dog bowl made from triac.    

 

 

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10 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

I have been asked this question on several occasions and the answer is , maybe , but not before we have finished the Rapido 40 and have it well and truly in production so don't expect to see one before 2022 .

Thanks for answering.  Maybe is better than no!  :D

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One of my friends worked for a company that did manufacturing in Northern Europe, and then opened another manufacturing facility in Vietnam. 

He said it was a huge learning experience for them. The primary issue was that in Northern Europe, the workers are generally more affluent and well-educated, and can relate to owning the product they are manufacturing, therefore they take pride in building a product they might own themselves someday. Quality control is done through spot checks, and is generally not an issue.

The workers in Vietnam, on the other hand, are relatively poor and uneducated, and cannot remotely relate to owning the mystery product they are manufacturing. Therefore they require far more training and oversight, and quality control needs to be done on every single piece, which adds costs and partly offsets the low labour cost advantage.

When you don't follow through on the training, oversight, and quality control, you get stupid mistakes and defective products. Paul seems to understand this and unfortunately he wasn't around during the defective Searail run. 

Also, as noted above, the Searail was quite literally a budget build, with Searail tooling and methods, so I don't see any reason to assume the same problems would occur with Rapido. 

 

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@Paul Koch - I recall you posting the deck and interior plans for both the 40 and 50 but can't find and think they went through revision?  Could you repost them?

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Very cool project a 50 would be perfect for me and my family as a livaboard. I don't see the price coming down far enough in time to make it a reality for me though. The 30ft Tri space is pretty crowded and the used market has many very good examples available, I think Rapdio has found a great niche in ocean going, large trimarans. 

Paul, looking at the drawings above in looks like the crash bulkhead slopes forward towards the waterline, shouldn't it slope away since at/below the waterline is the most likely and dangerous place to take a hit?

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4 hours ago, Mizzmo said:

Very cool project a 50 would be perfect for me and my family as a livaboard. I don't see the price coming down far enough in time to make it a reality for me though. The 30ft Tri space is pretty crowded and the used market has many very good examples available, I think Rapdio has found a great niche in ocean going, large trimarans. 

Paul, looking at the drawings above in looks like the crash bulkhead slopes forward towards the waterline, shouldn't it slope away since at/below the waterline is the most likely and dangerous place to take a hit?

30ft tri space is crowded but the folding system on Rapidos allows in-water folded storage in a well size equal to LOA. Can"t wait to see how well it works.

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I see Romanza just got a 4th across the line in the just finished PIC Coastal Classic race in NZ, close behind a Volvo 65 and a couple of very fast cruising cats of about the same length. Interestingly it was a very light upwind race which allowed a mono to beat the multis to the finish for the first time in 12 years. Still a very good showing for 3 multis that occupy the same space, ie, very well appointed fast cruisers.

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On 10/24/2020 at 11:55 PM, Mizzmo said:

Very cool project a 50 would be perfect for me and my family as a livaboard. I don't see the price coming down far enough in time to make it a reality for me though. The 30ft Tri space is pretty crowded and the used market has many very good examples available, I think Rapdio has found a great niche in ocean going, large trimarans. 

Paul, looking at the drawings above in looks like the crash bulkhead slopes forward towards the waterline, shouldn't it slope away since at/below the waterline is the most likely and dangerous place to take a hit?

There are actually many watertight bulkheads in the boat as it is our policy to never have any penetrations through bulkheads below the waterline so you have a watertight bulkhead at the bow , another behind the sail locker , another at the back of the fwd cabin , then engine room , the storage locker and the aft end of the aft cabin in front of the rudder . In addition to 5 water tight compartments in each float . So bottom line is , no danger of sinking no matter where you hole the boat !

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On 10/21/2020 at 5:04 PM, MultiThom said:

This is all true.  I did lash out at James, James and Paul--after months of wrangling.  I really can afford to pay for my own repairs but only wanted them to step up and accept responsibility.  Y'see, the only thing left out of the explanation is the root cause...Triac moved locations and in so doing, lost part of the daggerboard trunk mould.  Which they remade, but made wrong...so the boat halves would not go together as designed.  So during final assembly, some bozo decided to bash it to fit.  In the worst possible place.  Someone was more interested in production schedule than quality product (sounds like the Rapido's now, right?).  And, no knowledgeable oversight over production during a critical evolution.  They did this to every one of the boats in that production run.  Prior searails don't have this issue since they were made with original moulds.  I wouldn't own a dog bowl made from triac.    

Multithom: I understand you dismay, but start a new topic, is basically the point I am trying to make. Now we have this whole discussion here about your issues with Triac. But, this is a problem in just about all forums, where people do not stick to the subject at hand, so it is not exclusively you.

Meanwhile, I cannot wait for the photos of the finished Rapido 50

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Hey Paul, this light grey is the final colour? Or will it all be made black? Why didn´t you keep it as varnished carbon? I suppose the grey is a stronger colour where UV is concerned?

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13 hours ago, Pantouf said:

Hey Paul, this light grey is the final colour? Or will it all be made black? Why didn´t you keep it as varnished carbon? I suppose the grey is a stronger colour where UV is concerned?

The whole boat is carbon literally ! But it is not practical to have a black clear coated but other than in the Artic circle as the UV kills it too quickly . Actually the grey and white looks great in real life .

WhatsApp Image 2020-11-11 at 3.55.17 PM.jpeg

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:57 PM, MultiThom said:

 here is a link to a video posted on YouTube showing the boroscope inspection. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPjOvU-3mHs Just to be clear, Rapido "may" be stationing inspectors at triac to avoid the manufacturing errors which occurred with my searail--I hope they do for their reputations' sake.    The ongoing discussion about production schedules and pressures frankly give me the willies since those same forces were the impetus for the errors in my boat. 

My purpose in this post is merely a warning that past boats built by triac for a manufacturer have had defects--as in any crap shoot, past performance cannot be used to predict future rolls of the dice.   I took a 30K risk which is not a big deal to me and I still enjoy the boat but it has been a long time getting the errors fixed.

Looks like Nacra 5.80 daggerboard''s trunks when they were built by Prindle 30 year ago , low level technology ! I am glad to be a Homebuilder !

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20 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

first dip in the river !

fd9e9b2b-26f3-48cd-bd98-56f81847636f.jpg

44ef9790-d8b7-400c-893e-50e9b45183fb.jpg

Great looking yacht Paul, congratulations! (Ps. Rig looks a bit small:P, sorry but some other smartarse was going to say it)

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Is that little mast for being able to fold? And am I correct in assuming that the folding happens, by pulling the floats up (via a line to a block in the mast)? Very nice looking boat Paul. Super sleek lines. She will be a monster, once sailing.

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Yes , it was for folding the boat , the real rig is in Sweden coming from Mastrom , will be fitted when the boat arrives in Europe 

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6 hours ago, EarthBM said:

Fold in and out video or it didn't happen!

It would be great to see a video of the folding once one is available.  The little mast might not provide a true real world example?

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Both amas well immersed with the dumpy crane rig - Uh Oh!

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8 hours ago, boardhead said:

Both amas well immersed with the dumpy crane rig - Uh Oh!

What’s wrong with that?

less slamming at anchor?

less heel sailing?

at the cost of a bit more drag motoring?

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On 12/13/2020 at 7:17 PM, ALL@SEA said:

 

 

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1 hour ago, EarthBM said:

What’s wrong with that?

less slamming at anchor?

less heel sailing?

at the cost of a bit more drag motoring?

Did you ever sail a light, fast one?    Oh I thought it was a SAIL boat.

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6 hours ago, boardhead said:

Did you ever sail a light, fast one?    Oh I thought it was a SAIL boat.

Your boat would've sold by now if anyone thought you were a better designer than Morelli & Melvin.  No need to hijack another thread.

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7 hours ago, boardhead said:

Did you ever sail a light, fast one?    Oh I thought it was a SAIL boat.

What is the point of this comment? This is a 50ft, comfy yet fast trimaran. Who cares about some spartan super lightweight unit. Buy that and get a hardon if you prefer such craft. Different market, different kettle of fish and super uncomfortable to be on.

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3 hours ago, eastern motors said:

Your boat would've sold by now if anyone thought you were a better designer than Morelli & Melvin.  No need to hijack another thread.

Excuse me -  I made an observation on the Rapido 50 and that has something to do with me selling and designing boats?

I would bet Paul Koch is not enthusiastic about a nice enclosed pilothouse on the back or placing a design premium on three hull contact to reduce heeling and anchorage slamming,

The boat was not depicted in the concept illustrations as having high set amas but lifting the windward ama, sailing, reduces drag and in light air some heeling initiates and aids sail set - bolt upright catamarans  suffer in drifting conditions.

Some feedback on the Rapido 50's unrigged floating lines would be of interest.

 

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It's a bit hard to tell in the pictures but the earlier ones by the bridge it looks like there only a tiny of immersion of the amas... Depending on how much they atually are in the water is it possible that once the rig is on there and tensioned properly they will actually move up a couple inches relative to the main hull (from clearance in the bushings etc)?

Regardless from the bottom paint it seems like they are where they were supposed to be with jus the bow being a bit high (might be missing an good anchor and empty tanks etc... Regardless, on a cruiser it seems like a good design decision to have both amas in the water at anchor by some amount!

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It will be interesting to see how the waterline changes with a modest amount of weight in the boat e.g. ground tackle, sails, fuel, water. 

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5 hours ago, Airwick said:

It's a bit hard to tell in the pictures but the earlier ones by the bridge it looks like there only a tiny of immersion of the amas... Depending on how much they atually are in the water is it possible that once the rig is on there and tensioned properly they will actually move up a couple inches relative to the main hull (from clearance in the bushings etc)?

Regardless from the bottom paint it seems like they are where they were supposed to be with jus the bow being a bit high (might be missing an good anchor and empty tanks etc... Regardless, on a cruiser it seems like a good design decision to have both amas in the water at anchor by some amount!

If I were buying a cruising tri, I would absolutely want the amas sitting in the water while at rest. That awkward rocking is annoying. 

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I bet you also complain about ferraris lack of off road ability and strap a turbo to your civic. 

Damn that was harsh.

Looks lovely Paul! Wish I could afford one. Let me know when you are ready to give me one for free (a la corsair 880) for 6 months and we will be sure to video tape some epic bathing suit clad "adventures"...

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Sure would be cool to have adjustable dihedral. Floats down at anchor and up when sailing!

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Rubber beams! :)

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4 hours ago, Training Wheels said:

Sure would be cool to have adjustable dihedral. Floats down at anchor and up when sailing!

Hey why not? Luxury cars come with adjustable suspension ride height and stiffness, so why not boats? And the engineering complexity can't be that much more than canting keels or foils with adjustable angles of attack. The biggest barrier is likely cost, but those who are buying these boats are probably not too concerned about that, and it may be well worth it to be able to boast about their adjustable dihedral at a cocktail party! 

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2 hours ago, gspot said:

Hey why not? Luxury cars come with adjustable suspension ride height and stiffness, so why not boats? And the engineering complexity can't be that much more than canting keels or foils with adjustable angles of attack. The biggest barrier is likely cost, but those who are buying these boats are probably not too concerned about that, and it may be well worth it to be able to boast about their adjustable dihedral at a cocktail party! 

I suspect because suspensions are designed to move (taking up road irregularities)  and trimaran beams are meant to  be ultimately rigid and not flex?

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4 hours ago, gspot said:

Hey why not? Luxury cars come with adjustable suspension ride height and stiffness, so why not boats? And the engineering complexity can't be that much more than canting keels or foils with adjustable angles of attack. The biggest barrier is likely cost, but those who are buying these boats are probably not too concerned about that, and it may be well worth it to be able to boast about their adjustable dihedral at a cocktail party! 

Modify the fold mechanism slightly(?) so that unfolded the amas are raised a bit, and folded drop to prevent rocking. I'd think there'd still be ample stability for all but stormy conditions. Hypothetical of course, I can't knock it till I try it - and that's not likely any time soon;)

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55 minutes ago, ALL@SEA said:

Modify the fold mechanism slightly(?) so that unfolded the amas are raised a bit, and folded drop to prevent rocking. I'd think there'd still be ample stability for all but stormy conditions. Hypothetical of course, I can't knock it till I try it - and that's not likely any time soon;)

Even something as simple as multiple pin positions in struts might be cool to enable the boat to switch from "race" to "cruise" or "anchor" modes. 

The shroud lengths would have to change to accommodate that, but variations on proven canting rig approaches might do the trick.

Not sure if any of this is possible with the geometries involved here, but potentially an idea for designers and builders to ponder.

 

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So explain again why you need amas up? 

Are you saying that the windward ama might be in the water when sailing? This is very unlikely. Maybe in like 2kt of wind. 

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1 hour ago, EarthBM said:

So explain again why you need amas up? 

Are you saying that the windward ama might be in the water when sailing? This is very unlikely. Maybe in like 2kt of wind. 

Because you want the windward ama  to clear the surface of the water as soon as possible when sailing.

And yes... looking at the pictures and considering that the boat is under delivery to being fully commissioned; that this is nearly a bare hulls weight and we are still missing all kinds of normal stuff including... almost the entire weight of the rig , mast, boom, and sails. I could see it POSSIBLY taking well over 6kn of apparent windspeed and as much as 11 to have the windward ama clear the water.

Edited by 2flit
clarified windspeed measurement

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1 hour ago, 2flit said:

Because you want the windward ama  to clear the surface of the water as soon as possible when sailing.

And yes... looking at the pictures and considering that the boat is under delivery to being fully commissioned; that this is nearly a bare hulls weight and we are still missing all kinds of normal stuff including... almost the entire weight of the rig , mast, boom, and sails. I could see it POSSIBLY taking well over 6kn of apparent windspeed and as much as 11 to have the windward ama clear the water.

Really you guys are jumping to a lot of conclusions , wait until we get the rig on it and go sailing ! The Amas will move upwards up to 6 inches ( 150 mm ) just from rig tension alone , was quite noticeable when we put the first 60 rig on . I think it will take very little wind for the windward ama to clear the water . There was about 10 guys on board checking all sorts of stuff when those pics were taken and a bunch of tools and gear . The photos were posted on someones facebook page but have spread like wildfire such is the interest in the boat . We will do a proper photo shoot when it gets to Spain and has a mast delivered there . 

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On 12/14/2020 at 4:11 PM, gspot said:

It will be interesting to see how the waterline changes with a modest amount of weight in the boat e.g. ground tackle, sails, fuel, water. 

Same as every boat. It will go down.

 

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14 hours ago, Paul Koch said:

The Amas will move upwards up to 6 inches ( 150 mm ) just from rig tension alone

I was speculating a couple of inches but 6 is a lot! That would definitely make a big difference as it won't go down 6" from the weight of rig and other stuff.

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Thanks Paul, for giving the world more folding cruising trimaran options.  We all want the lightest, fastest, most comfortable (pick any two) boat.  I point out the Dragonfly 40 for comparison.  In actual finished/launched version all 3 hulls are immersed.  It appears that in light air they stay immersed.  In heavier air the Windward hull flies.  See https://dragonfly.dk/dragonfly-40.  They have delivered at least 2 and have orders thru hull number 6 for Spring delivery.  So people are not “put off” by by Archimedes’  principles in play.  I wish you success also.

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3 hours ago, hannibalhouse said:

  I point out the Dragonfly 40 for comparison.  In actual finished/launched version all 3 hulls are immersed.  It appears that in light air they stay immersed.  In heavier air the Windward hull flies.  See https://dragonfly.dk/dragonfly-40.  They have delivered at least 2 and have orders thru hull number 6 for Spring delivery.  So people are not “put off” by by Archimedes’  principles in play.

Perhaps people think the dual wheels compensate for the three-hull-immersion in lighter air? ^_^

And thanks to Paul and his team for providing more options, and also for being so helpful and transparent in this forum!!!

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On 12/15/2020 at 1:11 AM, gspot said:

It will be interesting to see how the waterline changes with a modest amount of weight in the boat e.g. ground tackle, sails, fuel, water. 

How about a mast!

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On 12/16/2020 at 3:22 AM, Paul Koch said:

Really you guys are jumping to a lot of conclusions , wait until we get the rig on it and go sailing ! The Amas will move upwards up to 6 inches ( 150 mm ) just from rig tension alone , was quite noticeable when we put the first 60 rig on . I think it will take very little wind for the windward ama to clear the water . There was about 10 guys on board checking all sorts of stuff when those pics were taken and a bunch of tools and gear . The photos were posted on someones facebook page but have spread like wildfire such is the interest in the boat . We will do a proper photo shoot when it gets to Spain and has a mast delivered there . 

She looks a treat Paul. I am sure it is a superb compromise between comfort and speed. Can´t wait to see photos when the mast and sails are on. Probably will be a while, as travel is a total nightmare these (covid-19) days.

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Quote

Ignore the trolls.

You can label someone a troll but that doesn't make them so.   He has actual experience from the builder and was saying buyer beware or at least be cautious.   

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Perhaps everyone buying a new boat knows the length of time it takes to get one, but it seems to be taking a long time these days.  Not “picking on” Rapido, it seems so for other builders too.  Boats are built oceans away from purchasers in many cases.  So my question is, starting with the date of the first discussion between Rapido and (say) a Florida purchaser, how long would it take until launch, make ready, and final “delivery” of a Folding Fifty?  Life is short.

 

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