Wess

ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

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8 hours ago, bill4 said:

I don't follow. Robbie served up 6 things ILCA do to help in the regions. So do you think knowledge of these activities may actually dissuade non members from joining? 

Go back and read Robbie’s full post.it also includes reasons why folks could decide not to join. And no I don’t find the points mentioned to be compelling reasons to join an organization that picks my pocket.

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14 hours ago, Wess said:

What question?  There is no question.  I would sail a Laser or whatever the self serving Olympic and Asia chasing idiots at ILCA decide to call it regardless of them picking my and everybody else's pocket. This is not hard and at risk of repeating myself... its not the boat... its the fleet.  Best local fleet and best WW fleet is Laser.  When its something else I would sail the something else if I was still racing.  But I think this is true for most.  It. Ain't. The. Boat.

IPL,  That is hysterical! 

I think it was the line about demographics that was like a lure flashing past Wess 

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18 minutes ago, Wess said:

Go back and read Robbie’s full post.it also includes reasons why folks could decide not to join. And no I don’t find the points mentioned to be compelling reasons to join an organization that picks my pocket.

I get it.  No means no and that's fine. I'm not trying to change any minds, (which I believe has been proven impossible to do on the internet) but if someone is a "maybe" then they should not be ignorant to what the possibilities are.

Sure it's not perfect.  What is? Are there politics?  Where are there not?   

It can be aggravating to be a district secretary or any other volunteer position in any organization, but it can also be hugely rewarding.

Again, IMO you get out of it what you put into it.  Unfortunately for some like the Gov the politics can be crippling, but fortunately for him it has not killed his passion for the sport and the boat.  This can happen in anything and I think the big key to remember, (when you're involved at the volunteer level) is not everyone is going to be happy.  Do the best you can.  If the fun starts to fade step aside because life is too short.  Just keep sailing.

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52 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

I get it.  No means no and that's fine. I'm not trying to change any minds, (which I believe has been proven impossible to do on the internet) but if someone is a "maybe" then they should not be ignorant to what the possibilities are.

Sure it's not perfect.  What is? Are there politics?  Where are there not?   

It can be aggravating to be a district secretary or any other volunteer position in any organization, but it can also be hugely rewarding.

Again, IMO you get out of it what you put into it.  Unfortunately for some like the Gov the politics can be crippling, but fortunately for him it has not killed his passion for the sport and the boat.  This can happen in anything and I think the big key to remember, (when you're involved at the volunteer level) is not everyone is going to be happy.  Do the best you can.  If the fun starts to fade step aside because life is too short.  Just keep sailing.

That's fair.  Agree.

And its best to change minds with rum LOL.

Coming to the Naps show?  Our big boat is going to be used for demos. 

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32 minutes ago, Wess said:

That's fair.  Agree.

And its best to change minds with rum LOL.

Coming to the Naps show?  Our big boat is going to be used for demos. 

Aw man!  I'd love to head up that way for a weekend of smelling new fiberglass and booze inspired dreams.  However, we're headed to the old homestead to attend a Clemson FB game....

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Had to laugh at this:

https://www.finnclass.org/news/20-news/1062-the-return-of-the-finn

The Finn class has not given up yet.  Who knows with LPE gone and no new builders for Laser or whatever the heck it is, may the Finn has a chance!!

They never give up!  

I don't know why we don't stop all this nonsense with Lasers and Finns, and bring back the Firefly as the singlehanded dinghy. If it was good enough for Elvstrom, it should be good enough for everyone.

12_Elvstrom1948_300.jpg

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The Laser is an Olympic class boat.  At my size and physical condition I can easily sail and race a Laser.  I may not be competitive, but that is mostly lack of skill.  No one would look at me and mistake me for an Olympic athlete.

If you even want to consider sailing a Finn, you have to have skill AND be an athlete.  To me, that is more appropriate for an Olympic class.

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5 minutes ago, Wess said:

Maybe LPE can build Finns?

And supply them only locally...:)

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4 hours ago, tillerman said:

They never give up!  

I don't know why we don't stop all this nonsense with Lasers and Finns, and bring back the Firefly as the singlehanded dinghy. If it was good enough for Elvstrom, it should be good enough for everyone.

I think we're limiting our scope too much. I think we should (re)consider the 12 foot dinghy. It was the first to receive international designation, and an olympic boat in 1920 and 1928

Image result for international 12 foot dinghy

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3 hours ago, dgmckim said:

I think we're limiting our scope too much.

 

Or each country could build their own boat

 

2015%20Puddle%20Duck%20postcard_Final_fr

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6 hours ago, Wess said:

Maybe LPE can build Finns?

Back in the day Vanguard did build Finns.

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Need input from our European friends:

Is LP selling any Lasers in its (former) territory and, if so, do they have ILCA stickers to make them 'legal'?

Thanks!

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6 hours ago, sosoomii said:

Assuming they haven’t just been extremely slow to update their website, yes you can still buy a class legal Laser from LP.  I haven’t tried - why would you when there are better products and better class associations to spend your money on?  

https://www.laserperformance.uk/Laser-XD-composite?lang=en

 

 

Well, there is a certain allure to the best fleet racing in the world for those of us in the Masters category, along with a strong local contingent that puts 20 boats on the line every Thursday in the summer. I think people may be surprised at how many Laser sailors don’t give a shit about all this noise. They just love to sail and compete with friends.

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11 hours ago, Wavedancer II said:

Need input from our European friends:

Is LP selling any Lasers in its (former) territory and, if so, do they have ILCA stickers to make them 'legal'?

Thanks!

They are advertising the hell out of the ARC rig on FB.  

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5 hours ago, RobbieB said:

They are advertising the hell out of the ARC rig on FB.  

well my FB is full of ads of the 5 rig. must be a good battle :D

 

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On 10/17/2019 at 8:47 PM, Wavedancer II said:

Need input from our European friends:

Is LP selling any Lasers in its (former) territory and, if so, do they have ILCA stickers to make them 'legal'?

Thanks!

I was told they are not a class approved builder.  That they have not been reinstated and are simply selling out stock with previously issued plaques/stickers. I would not buy from them as they have no reason to stand behind the product if that is correct.  

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

I was told they are not a class approved builder.  That they have not been reinstated and are simply selling out stock with previously issued plaques/stickers. I would not buy from them as they have no reason to stand behind the product if that is correct.  

They expect to get the letter reinstating them as an official builder shortly.  Dealers still have stock.

Cheers,

              W.

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6 hours ago, WGWarburton said:

They expect to get the letter reinstating them as an official builder shortly.  Dealers still have stock.

Cheers,

              W.

Did LP tell you that?

You might be in for a bit of a shock...

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If you're in the US stand by for an announcement regarding access to PSA boats, (Chartered and NEW).  The advertisement in the recent Laser Sailor was placed before all of the details were settled.

Should hear something in the next week or two.  

Standby Wess.

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2 hours ago, RobbieB said:

If you're in the US stand by for an announcement regarding access to PSA boats, (Chartered and NEW).  The advertisement in the recent Laser Sailor was placed before all of the details were settled.

Should hear something in the next week or two.  

Standby Wess.

Stand by?  LOL, I don't think so.  Sailed my old LPE Laser one evening last week when it blew 30.  I ain't racing no more but its still a fun boat to sail.  Had a hoot in the UFO2 weekends ago.  But this weekend we took our tri out for a 3 day shakedown cruise proving that I (with a lot of help) can fix a lightning struck boat that had every single electrical and mechanical system destroyed - not to mention 40 some holes blown out of the cored hull - at least 4 times faster than ILCA can find a announce a NA builder after firing the last one because of supply problems LOL.  And nobody even charged me any hidden fees to fix the tri...

... cough, cough...

... on which you were supposed to have been pulling lines and serving the Admiral and I free rum drinks!!

You might have enjoyed paying up. The cruise was a blast and the sailing spectacular!!

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I am looking forward to seeing a huge charter fleet for the  Easter Laser Regatta.

Sign up early so you can have one of the first 100!! 

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We are so focused on news about PSA ( a small builder in Australia that produces around 500 boats a year) that we are missing the bigger news. 

The largest Laser factory in the world, with experienced employees , that have been building Lasers at the same location since the 1970s , churning out 3,000 + identical toys year after year is about to close!!!!!!!!!

Banbury is closing because the astute and savvy owner: with successes under his belt, like the finger lopping Maclaren buggy, a second all-new Sunfish class association, and building closer ties with customers and class officials in the Laser class ...is about to add another notch to his belt with a brilliant strategic decision.

Apparently, he has decided that (a) The land at Banbury would be worth more money if converted from industrial light manufacturing and (b) He needs to safeguard the Laser against the risk of a No Deal Brexixt........So in the midst of LP's reappointment as class builder where his biggest asset is the credibility of a proven ability to produce 4,000+ Lasers per year from a proven factory staffed by experienced employees.......he is closing the factory and shifting production to an unproven new site in Portugal with a labor force that has probably never built a fiberglass waste water tank, never mind a boat or a Laser.

Someone should point out to him that according to the pundits, the risk of a no-deal Brexit has declined to 5%

This is doubtless why his employees and customers affectionately refer to him as "El Maestro".

I cant help myself resurfacing the image that Maclaren had on their website at the height of the scandal. You will all recall that Maclaren buggys had looped fingers off 12 children and the company had known about this for nearly a decade, Pure gold for the plaintiff bar.

What does Maclaren do....put our a reassuring statement about safety and a picture of an adorable kid in a Maclaren buggy

BUT

They choose a picture of a kid that looks like he is holding the faulty mechanism and missing his fingers. Branding genius!

958640230_fingerlesskidusedinMclarenad!.png.a6ece8f93e9e45b474636733d1cc3d36.png

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Ok - I'll bite. Is this for real? If not, it's a great story! 

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2 hours ago, bill4 said:

Ok - I'll bite. Is this for real? If not, it's a great story! 

No... Vanguard is still building and selling Lasers through a well developed and maintained North American Dealer network. 


 

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14 hours ago, IPLore said:

We are so focused on news about PSA ( a small builder in Australia that produces around 500 boats a year) that we are missing the bigger news. 

The largest Laser factory in the world, with experienced employees , that have been building Lasers at the same location since the 1970s , churning out 3,000 + identical toys year after year is about to close!!!!!!!!!

Banbury is closing because the astute and savvy owner: with successes under his belt, like the finger lopping Maclaren buggy, a second all-new Sunfish class association, and building closer ties with customers and class officials in the Laser class ...is about to add another notch to his belt with a brilliant strategic decision.

Apparently, he has decided that (a) The land at Banbury would be worth more money if converted from industrial light manufacturing and (b) He needs to safeguard the Laser against the risk of a No Deal Brexixt........So in the midst of LP's reappointment as class builder where his biggest asset is the credibility of a proven ability to produce 4,000+ Lasers per year from a proven factory staffed by experienced employees.......he is closing the factory and shifting production to an unproven new site in Portugal with a labor force that has probably never built a fiberglass waste water tank, never mind a boat or a Laser.

Someone should point out to him that according to the pundits, the risk of a no-deal Brexit has declined to 5%

This is doubtless why his employees and customers affectionately refer to him as "El Maestro".

I cant help myself resurfacing the image that Maclaren had on their website at the height of the scandal. You will all recall that Maclaren buggys had looped fingers off 12 children and the company had known about this for nearly a decade, Pure gold for the plaintiff bar.

What does Maclaren do....put our a reassuring statement about safety and a picture of an adorable kid in a Maclaren buggy

BUT

They choose a picture of a kid that looks like he is holding the faulty mechanism and missing his fingers. Branding genius!

958640230_fingerlesskidusedinMclarenad!.png.a6ece8f93e9e45b474636733d1cc3d36.png

You are dreaming if you think they are ever coming back as a class builder.  But I do wonder if there is a good joke here.  Maybe everyone who owns and sails a Laser should get one of those baby buggies for free.  It perhaps could be used to cut off the fingers of all the folks who keep sticking their hands in Laser sailor's pants and picking our pockets.  Bruce and PSA want to demand a fee into perpetuity for a design older than most sailors.  Cut off their fingers!  Same for WS leadership who want a hidden Olympic fee from all sailors!  Rasty loses his too for agreeing with WS.  ILCA or whatever they eventually call themselves.... I call them fingerless... snip snip for all your hidden FRAND fees to stay in the Olympics and grow sailing in China.  No more money for nothing!  No more fingers for those who pick Laser sailor's pockets!!  I am telling you, these buggies could be useful.  :P

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Why so much doom and gloom?

Don't obsess over LaserPerformanceEurope/Maclaren and their plans to move to Portugal. They are history. ILCA has given LPE the boot. (It says so in the title to this thread so it must be true.)

ILCA has 24 other builders all ready to build Lasers for you all over the world - spread over Asia, Europe, North America and South America.  ILCA just need to go through the process to review, evaluate and select the best of the bunch from this list and Lasers will be flowing from the factories before you know it.

And, of course, ILCA has committed  to ensuring that boats from these new builders will be in strict compliance with the Construction Manual and the Class Rule.

Keep the faith. Everything will be all right.

 

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How many different boats are now being described as part of the “Laser” game? 
formula for the answer :

manufacturers

x

Rigs

x

sail choices

=
 

number of varieties

*******

We need to reel in this variety crap and settle on one boat so we can start building fleets of one design sailing. 

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This is really unhelpful.  Can't you lawyer types tell these nice wager welshers, err no lemmings, err no nice people... in NA and EU who is now building Lasers in those regions and where they can buy a Laser or whatever ILCA is calling it and themselves now.  Or at least tell them when they can know what the thing that used to be called a Laser is going to be called in NA and EU?  Finally if failing that too can you tell us where the baby buggies are made so we can get those and cut off the fingers of the  the various class, builder, and WS leadership who are picking our pockets??

Good grief, all this for sailing in China.  Never mind the Torch belt and T shirt... will we get in trouble if we wear "Free Hong Kong" T-shirts in ILCA events or is ILCA selling out too like the NBA?

God I love this place!  :lol:

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17 minutes ago, Wess said:

This is really unhelpful.  Can't you lawyer types tell these nice wager welshers, err no lemmings, err no nice people... in NA and EU who is now building Lasers in those regions and where they can buy a Laser or whatever ILCA is calling it and themselves now.  Or at least tell them when they can know what the thing that used to be called a Laser is going to be called in NA and EU?  Finally if failing that too can you tell us where the baby buggies are made so we can get those and cut off the fingers of the  the various class, builder, and WS leadership who are picking our pockets??

Good grief, all this for sailing in China.  Never mind the Torch belt and T shirt... will we get in trouble if we wear "Free Hong Kong" T-shirts in ILCA events or is ILCA selling out too like the NBA?

God I love this place!  :lol:

Here's a finger for you negative Nellies!

Middle fingers - Royalty-free Obscene Gesture Stock Photo

Now have some of this and relax!

Image result for images of kool aid

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

This is really unhelpful.  Can't you lawyer types tell these nice wager welshers, err no lemmings, err no nice people... in NA and EU who is now building Lasers in those regions and where they can buy a Laser or whatever ILCA is calling it and themselves now.  Or at least tell them when they can know what the thing that used to be called a Laser is going to be called in NA and EU? 

Well, those nice people at ILCANA did send out their official and very impressive newsletter printed on glossy paper a few weeks ago saying that those very helpful blokes and sheilas at PSA were going to send a few shiploads of their super-fast cheater Lasers to Florida this winter for charter at various regattas and afterwards for sale.

I was so excited that I was seriously considering chartering an Aussie super fast cheater Laser at a couple of Laser Master regattas in Florida instead of hauling my RS Aero down there this winter. There is only one manufacturer of RS Aeros so there is no way to buy cheater Aeros that are faster than other Aeros, which goes against the whole tradition in the one-design world of trying to figure out who makes faster boats.

But then some killjoy on Dinghy Anarchy posted that the news about PSA charters in Florida was all a mistake and they had to work out all the details, which I assume are things like what they are going to call the Lasers that are not really Lasers, and how to avoid being sued by the baby buggy dude?

Oh well. Maybe I can find a go-faster Sunfish?

 

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7 hours ago, IPLore said:

I believe that is/was the LPE headquarters.  The Laser hulls themselves are/were built at this location.  It's where a BMW drove through the wall a few years ago.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.057631,-1.3315862,3a,75y,84.58h,81.09t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1skHcTF7E1H_dC-6tfXPd3mQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Still not good for the class or sailing in general if it all shuts down.

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The thing I hate most is how the world of singlehanded sailing seems to be in pause mode 

nobody seems to be selling  any new ( established or new design) singlehanded toys right now. 

My club has over 500 boats onntge property. I don’t think we have had five brand new toys launched in the last two years. 
I am sure of an inflatable powerboat this week, a couple WASPs, two AEROS,  an OK Dinghy, and A 20+_ foot catamaran since January 2018.  
    I think one family bought one of the banned club 420

That  is not a sustainable number for a five hundred boat fleet. 

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1% a year is about normal around here for new boat purchases in our fleet

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7 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The thing I hate most is how the world of singlehanded sailing seems to be in pause mode 

nobody seems to be selling  any new ( established or new design) singlehanded toys right now. 

My club has over 500 boats onntge property. I don’t think we have had five brand new toys launched in the last two years. 
I am sure of an inflatable powerboat this week, a couple WASPs, two AEROS,  an OK Dinghy, and A 20+_ foot catamaran since January 2018.  
    I think one family bought one of the banned club 420

That  is not a sustainable number for a five hundred boat fleet. 

You are correct.  I left the club I grew up at in 1995.  I go back every year or two for an open event.  Damn near every boat there, (dingy or keel boat) was there in 1995!  It's like stepping into a time machine, (just going the wrong direction).  Speaks volumes about the state of our sport.

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We had one new laser in our 20 boat fleet over the last 5 years. A lot more replacements of very old lasers for less old lasers. Also, a lot of new sails and most standards sail with MK2 now. But on the small lakes we sail a new boats does not give you a lot of speed advantage, a new sail does. So if your 25 yr old laser has no structural damage there is no need (a the the club level) to buy something new. Probably different if you sail at sea...

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8 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

The thing I hate most is how the world of singlehanded sailing seems to be in pause mode 

nobody seems to be selling  any new ( established or new design) singlehanded toys right now. 

My club has over 500 boats onntge property. I don’t think we have had five brand new toys launched in the last two years. 
I am sure of an inflatable powerboat this week, a couple WASPs, two AEROS,  an OK Dinghy, and A 20+_ foot catamaran since January 2018.  
    I think one family bought one of the banned club 420

That  is not a sustainable number for a five hundred boat fleet. 

 

59 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

You are correct.  I left the club I grew up at in 1995.  I go back every year or two for an open event.  Damn near every boat there, (dingy or keel boat) was there in 1995!  It's like stepping into a time machine, (just going the wrong direction).  Speaks volumes about the state of our sport.

While its fun to troll on this thread I will be serious for as moment and say that I think - with all due respect - that you both it have it COMPLETELY WRONG!

Club level sailboat/dinghy racing has held on more than it would have because that reverse time machine works.  If everybody had to buy a new Laser every few years to be able to compete at the club level, Laser would be long since dead.  That old boats can be had cheap and can still win is a good thing for clubs and for the class.  That the class is more interested in China, picking sailors pockets, and new technology and new sails and new rigs is bad for the class at the club level. 

Pause mode nd reverse time machines are  in fact perfect and GOOD for the Laser class at the club level.  Generic parts, sails and boats are even better. 

Greed is not good.  Everybody from the class to the builders to the designer trying to get control and get rich off the game of sailboat racing is what is killing it.  In truth you don't need any of them and would do better without them.  In truth, at the club level, the builder and ILCA were fired long ago when generic sails spread far and wide.  Keep that trend growing and Laser at the club level will be just fine.

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17 minutes ago, Wess said:

 

While its fun to troll on this thread I will be serious for as moment and say that I think - with all due respect - that you both it have it COMPLETELY WRONG!

Club level sailboat/dinghy racing has held on more than it would have because that reverse time machine works.  If everybody had to buy a new Laser every few years to be able to compete at the club level, Laser would be long since dead.  That old boats can be had cheap and can still win is a good thing for clubs and for the class.  That the class is more interested in China, picking sailors pockets, and new technology and new sails and new rigs is bad for the class at the club level. 

Pause mode nd reverse time machines are  in fact perfect and GOOD for the Laser class at the club level.  Generic parts, sails and boats are even better. 

Greed is not good.  Everybody from the class to the builders to the designer trying to get control and get rich off the game of sailboat racing is what is killing it.  In truth you don't need any of them and would do better without them.  In truth, at the club level, the builder and ILCA were fired long ago when generic sails spread far and wide.  Keep that trend growing and Laser at the club level will be just fine.

You have a point.  Sailing in general, (like laser class membership) has declined over the years.  However, new people are still coming in and the price of entry is cheap because fiberglass lasts a LONG time and there's a ton of used boats, (although most are sitting unused).

I think Gov's point is the sport isn't growing.  We've had a good year in District 12, but it's taken a lot of hard work. Schedule adjustments, helping people find/buy boats, allowing of brand parts/sails to be used, and lots of "rah, rah" communication. However, we're still way down from the participation we saw years ago when there were no lasers left on the beach. 

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31 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

You have a point.  Sailing in general, (like laser class membership) has declined over the years.  However, new people are still coming in and the price of entry is cheap because fiberglass lasts a LONG time and there's a ton of used boats, (although most are sitting unused).

I think Gov's point is the sport isn't growing.  We've had a good year in District 12, but it's taken a lot of hard work. Schedule adjustments, helping people find/buy boats, allowing of brand parts/sails to be used, and lots of "rah, rah" communication. However, we're still way down from the participation we saw years ago when there were no lasers left on the beach. 

There are people that promote the ILCA and those that do the opposite.  

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Hey @VWAP are you in favor of the use of generic sails at the club level for club level Laser racing?  Simple yes or no question!

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On a tropical Wednesday night in Austin there are about fifteen Lasers sailing. Five or six  of those boats are usually boats I bought new and now belong to somebody else. A couple more used to belong to the current international ILCA Secretary . Most of the rest are boats originally purchased as part of a fleet buy or individually from our local dealer.

      New boats always cause a rise in enthusiasm for at least the owners of those boats. Others come out because they want to sail with those enthusiastic people. 
         I would love to be able to paint some positive picture about our years with no infusion of new toys. I can’t. 
          Luckily, the ILCA officers have bern doing what they feel will cause new Lasers and parts to become available  again. I have criticized their methods and offered different paths but we share the same goal. ..... more butts on boats. 
            Let’s hope this new builder tree bears fruit. 

   
 

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2 hours ago, VWAP said:

There are people that promote the ILCA and those that do the opposite.  

Of all your asinine statements this, quite frankly, is all about you.

    “promote the ILCA”:  What the hell does that even mean? How would someone go about doing it? 
 

“those that do the opposite”:  Huh? Is somebody trying to hide our Association? 
 

My guess is the anonymous asshole troll who posts as @VWAP is trying to suggest those of us who invest time and effort in promoting the game of Laser sailing should also serve as targets for his personal attacks.  
   Fortunately, virtually everyone who reads his nonsense simply blows him off as the useless consumer of oxygen he really is. 
 

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Youth World Sailing Championships One Person Dinghy – Regulation 25.4.3 A submission from the International RS Aero Class Association Purpose or Objective To change the Boy’s One Person Dinghy and the Girls One Person Dinghy to the RS Aero (rig sizes to be selected in conjunction with WS Youth Events committee & Technical team)

 

https://www.sailing.org/news/89453.php#.XbZsruhKhPZ

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Talk about trying to backdoor the system after losing the vote.

See World Sailings youth events subcommittee brief report. Please note submission  086-19 which it states they have supported.

Below is a direct lift from the World sailing website.

With regards to submissions, the Sub-committee supported the following:

  • 084-19 - as the inclusion of the Techno293 Plus, alongside the RS:X, would provide more options for supplied equipment
  • 085-19 - to include the Mixed One Person Kiteboard from 2021
  • 086-19 - to replace the Laser Radial with the RS Aero for the One Person Dinghy

This is the link to the page

https://www.sailing.org/news/89453.php?fbclid=IwAR3xnz0pj8vQJEYhgFNwvDfxiD1v2dqRqWN93U0pRKgh7QiX4-_3YRKLZSk#.XbZZ8egzaUk

So they are supporting the submission to change the youth one-person dinghy, which on a senior level is supposedly locked in for the Olympic for 2020 and 2024.

I wonder whether the ILCA were even aware or were thinking that they should have been at this meeting. Bet the ILCA thought they had won the war for the time being and were not expecting guerilla tactics like this.

 

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Overheard at a club near you.

 "my grandad sailed a laser and drove an AMC Pacer he was a cool guy in his day. ( 40+ years ago)

cool guys in our club now sail cats, skiffs and foiling boats

The old guys stick to what they know so we still have a laser fleet but dying off with their owners."

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7 hours ago, ScreamingReach said:

Talk about trying to backdoor the system after losing the vote.

See World Sailings youth events subcommittee brief report. Please note submission  086-19 which it states they have supported.

Below is a direct lift from the World sailing website.

With regards to submissions, the Sub-committee supported the following:

  • 084-19 - as the inclusion of the Techno293 Plus, alongside the RS:X, would provide more options for supplied equipment
  • 085-19 - to include the Mixed One Person Kiteboard from 2021
  • 086-19 - to replace the Laser Radial with the RS Aero for the One Person Dinghy

This is the link to the page

https://www.sailing.org/news/89453.php?fbclid=IwAR3xnz0pj8vQJEYhgFNwvDfxiD1v2dqRqWN93U0pRKgh7QiX4-_3YRKLZSk#.XbZZ8egzaUk

So they are supporting the submission to change the youth one-person dinghy, which on a senior level is supposedly locked in for the Olympic for 2020 and 2024.

I wonder whether the ILCA were even aware or were thinking that they should have been at this meeting. Bet the ILCA thought they had won the war for the time being and were not expecting guerilla tactics like this.

 

Wow.  This is both interesting and a shame at the same time.  It's also a strong indication on the F'd up state and management at WS.  However, ILCA won't see much affect from this until post 2024 and of course it will only affect the radial fleet and hurt women's dingy sailing in general as they become separated from sailing with the boys, (again like they were in EVERY fleet prior to the Laser radial).  We'll miss them!

In the mean time the first ILCA/PSA boat has arrived in North Carolina.  No Aero's in NC/SC or GA, (I think) yet.

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33 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Wow.  This is both interesting and a shame at the same time.  It's also a strong indication on the F'd up state and management at WS.  However, ILCA won't see much affect from this until post 2024 and of course it will only affect the radial fleet and hurt women's dingy sailing in general as they become separated from sailing with the boys, (again like they were in EVERY fleet prior to the Laser radial).  We'll miss them!

In the mean time the first ILCA/PSA boat has arrived in North Carolina.  No Aero's in NC/SC or GA, (I think) yet.

The only thing more messed up than ILCA is WS LOL.  So I guess the youth boats don't need to be FRAND??  Or maybe now that Andy left nobody cares anymore???

On a more serious note... the PSA ILCA you reference... the important questions are 1.) new or charter resale, 2.) how much ($)?, and 3.) does it say Laser anywhere on the boat?

Finally... is it yours? (Congrats if so).

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26 minutes ago, Wess said:

The only thing more messed up than ILCA is WS LOL.  So I guess the youth boats don't need to be FRAND??  Or maybe now that Andy left nobody cares anymore???

On a more serious note... the PSA ILCA you reference... the important questions are 1.) new or charter resale, 2.) how much ($)?, and 3.) does it say Laser anywhere on the boat?

Finally... is it yours? (Congrats if so).

To your questions- Charter/new?  Not sure, but likely charter.  Price?- I think the charters are coming in around $7k.  No- it says ILCA, (I have a pic).  Not mine-#boatenvy

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ILCA?? What are the words, with respect to that boat,  fitting that acronym?? 

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59 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

ILCA?? What are the words, with respect to that boat,  fitting that acronym?? 

Unless and until somebody who has standing initiates legal action... it just don't matter.  Do you really care what its called?  All that matters is can you buy one and for how much.

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3 hours ago, RobbieB said:

Wow.  This is both interesting and a shame at the same time. 

Was that a council vote or a subcommittee recommendation?  

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9 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Was that a council vote or a subcommittee recommendation?  

As ar as I know, the only thing that has happened so far is that the Youth Events Sub-Committee have supported submission 086-19 from the RS Aero Class which is to change the Boy’s One Person Dinghy and the Girls One Person Dinghy to the RS Aero at the Youth World Sailing Championship.

I believe the proposal will now go to the Events Committee and then to the Council.

There is a separate 
submission from the RS Aero Class to include the RS Aero for both boys and girls at the Youth Olympics in Dakar in 2022.

 

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Unless and until somebody who has standing initiates legal action... it just don't matter.  Do you really care what its called?  All that matters is can you buy one and for how much.

I do know we can't use the Laser emblem anymore from a commercial standpoint.  I'm assuming the name goes with that.

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Wasn't the whole point to have the Laser as a universal feeder, from youth all the way to the Olympics?

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5 hours ago, RobbieB said:

In the mean time the first ILCA/PSA boat has arrived in North Carolina.  No Aero's in NC/SC or GA, (I think) yet.

I think there are a couple banging around Raleigh.

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I'm sitting in Bermuda at the WS conf.

Until the "fat lady sings", I would suggest that to speculate is fraught and you will end up with egg on your face.

Almost by definition, is it gets up in a sub-committe, it will get defeated higher up.    

Sub-committee's are stacked "often" and don't reflect the higher up nominated boards or council.    Or for that matter the AGM.

The bigger here is the governance issue, I think everything else is secondary.

                                   jB

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2 hours ago, tillerman said:

As ar as I know, the only thing that has happened so far is that the Youth Events Sub-Committee have supported submission 086-19 from the RS Aero Class which is to change the Boy’s One Person Dinghy and the Girls One Person Dinghy to the RS Aero at the Youth World Sailing Championship.

I believe the proposal will now go to the Events Committee and then to the Council.

There is a separate 
submission from the RS Aero Class to include the RS Aero for both boys and girls at the Youth Olympics in Dakar in 2022.

 

Thanks for the info.  Someone above seemed to be clutching pearls based on a subcommittee submission then. Probably a little early for that.

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1 hour ago, torrid said:

I think there are a couple banging around Raleigh.

I have yet to see any around Raleigh, but if you have any info on those people or boats... I’d like to get up with them and get them sailing this winter. DM me if you have info

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1 hour ago, torrid said:

I think there are a couple banging around Raleigh.

Raleigh is one of our strongest groups, (in numbers) of laser folks.  They are very active weekenders across various fleets up there.  No one has reported an Aero yet. Oh, I see dgmckim just checked in,  He's the man up that way.

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1 hour ago, torrid said:

I think there are a couple banging around Raleigh.

Were you talking about Aeros? I know of one of those. I thought you meant the PSA hulls.

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7 hours ago, Wess said:

Or maybe now that Andy left nobody cares anymore???

Andy is spending some time doing what all of us wish we were doing (that is if you actually prefer sailboat racing to bitching about it).

https://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2019/10/20/andy-roy-wins-international-masters/

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15 hours ago, VWAP said:

Youth World Sailing Championships One Person Dinghy – Regulation 25.4.3 A submission from the International RS Aero Class Association Purpose or Objective To change the Boy’s One Person Dinghy and the Girls One Person Dinghy to the RS Aero (rig sizes to be selected in conjunction with WS Youth Events committee & Technical team)

 

https://www.sailing.org/news/89453.php#.XbZsruhKhPZ

If RS can pull this off - good on them ($$). Looks like a nice boat and it's chance of becoming a truly international class with some significant numbers would be greatly enhanced by this appointment. Otherwise, it may wind up as yet another popular UK dinghy that didn't quite make it across the pond. Not that there is anything wrong with this.

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There is an interesting post on another site about the selection of the windsurfing gear for 2024, with Neil Pryde stating that if the RS-X isn't selected for 2024 then they will not be entering a supply agreement for 2020!

That will throw things into a spin as well..

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24 minutes ago, Jethrow said:

There is an interesting post on another site about the selection of the windsurfing gear for 2024, with Neil Pryde stating that if the RS-X isn't selected for 2024 then they will not be entering a supply agreement for 2020!

That will throw things into a spin as well..

Nobody plays hardball like him.  Someone renamed him Neil Preyed at an AGM a few years ago.

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

Wrong Andy but thanks for playing.

You’re welcome!

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Nobody plays hardball like him.  Someone renamed him Neil Preyed at an AGM a few years ago.

its not a him is it, didnt Neil sell out and retire a few years back?

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17 minutes ago, Sailabout said:

its not a him is it, didnt Neil sell out and retire a few years back?

If he did I bet he's been earning a mint doing consulting the past few months

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At least 80 boats in that photo. That’s a whole lot of money to have tied up in unsold stock. I hope they start selling to dealers and fleets very soon!!! 

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8 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

At least 80 boats in that photo. That’s a whole lot of money to have tied up in unsold stock. I hope they start selling to dealers and fleets very soon!!! 

Containers full rolling out weekly now I believe....

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13 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

If he did I bet he's been earning a mint doing consulting the past few months

he sold the 52 when he sold out, thats how I remember

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6 hours ago, Stanno said:

Containers full rolling out weekly now I believe....

Yeah, that's not a lot of production actually.
I believe PSA builds 1.7 boats a day.  

A 40'HC fits 20x boats on trollies. 
So, 80 boats is 2 months production.

That's really not a lot of boats.  

 

Anyone know if Ryan has prepaid for a full container yet?

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1 hour ago, BlatantEcho said:

Yeah, that's not a lot of production actually.
I believe PSA builds 1.7 boats a day.  

20work days a month 

250 work days a year 

34 a month

425 a year

20% of your Annual production sitting in the warehouse stresses the cash flow . 
 

it certainly is not an unusual situation for an American  boat company . In the seventies when  I worked at MFG boat company, in mid March we usually had about 800 boats hanging  in the warehouse and a few thousand Sears boats stacked outside, but they were all gone by late April...... or we were having a very bad year. 

 

 

 

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When it comes to sailboats, you pretty much sell everything in the Spring?  And with Lasers maybe a few more at Christmas?

I think expanding to the NA market could help balance PSA's production flow and inventory, having two Springs that are six months apart.

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