Wess

ILCA gives LPE the boot... seeking new Laser builder

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“Tight tolerances”

Can you imagine if ANY part in your cell phone had a one mm error?? 
 

Aside from spar wall thickness there isn’t a single tolerance so tight you cannt easily detect compliance with the naked eye and a tape measure.

Meanwhile, most modern manufacturing has tolerances in microns 

 


 

 

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27 minutes ago, Gouvernail said:

“Tight tolerances”

Can you imagine if ANY part in your cell phone had a one mm error?? 
 

Aside from spar wall thickness there isn’t a single tolerance so tight you cannt easily detect compliance with the naked eye and a tape measure.

Meanwhile, most modern manufacturing has tolerances in microns 

One mm? Do you realize you can fit just under 3,000,000 oxygen molecules sitting side by side in such a huge measurement?

Take a chill pill Gouv. These are boats, and no one-design class hulls have tolerances less than 1 mm, or for that matter microns. A lot of classes have tolerances of up to 20 mm. The Laser tolerances are comparatively tight.

The result has been a uniformity of boat speed that with Lasers is legendary - and the racing is often close.

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Supporters of the ILCA should not be complacent about the tolerances allowed in building ILCAs. This was one of the areas for which the Laser received negative criticism from the Evaluation Panel at the Olympic trials in Valencia last year. See, for example, these quotations from the Evaluation Panel Report

4.6.1 Standardization of rquipment

Since 2014, ILCA has increased efforts to monitor the standardization of equipment, but the introduction of upgrades and cooperation with all builders remains a challenge. The class presented results, although compliant with their construction manuals and quality controls, the presented tolerances were considered by the Evaluation Panel as too high. The supply of equipment for Olympic events and other major events mitigates the poor standardization, however tighter tolerances and higher controls are deemed required.

4.6.2 Quality of production

The hull has proven to be durable beyond its competitive life making cheap boats available to many sailors, however there has been a long history of variations among different builders which has led to the supply of equipment at major events.

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Consistency in Laser production is “the same guy sprays the gelcoat in every hull and he is pretty good at laying it on about right.

The Laser is built with 1960s technology with relatively broad specifications that creates an adequate product for its application. 
 

“Tight tolerances” is a term you might use to describe the diameter of each part in a modern gas engine’s piston.

”Tight tolerances” might apply to the construction of a computer chip.

Lasers are built to a standard just as Subway Sandwiches. You can go anywhere that has a Subway sign and the BMT will be pretty much the same.

McDonalds fries are about the same anywhere in the world. 
 

Lasers are like that. 

 


 

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On 12/1/2020 at 5:47 AM, JulianB said:

The one thing he is adamant about is that he will never buy another alloy top or lower mast.    Even in Sydney, the risk of "un-provoked" breakage is more than he wishes to bear.

A full composite mast costs 1,625USD (just checked in West Coast Sailing). I understand they will not brake and all that but the truth is my mast is (I think) the original from 1983 and is not even slightly bent. 

A 460m, 30% carbon windsurf mast costs around 170€, a good 100% carbon 460m costs 405€. I know it's not the same thing, but the difference in price is ridiculous.

The problem with laser parts is that they are so overpriced I'd feel stupid if I bought them. I'll stick with cheap copies.

 

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6 hours ago, Gouvernail said:

 

Lasers are built to a standard just as Subway Sandwiches. You can go anywhere that has a Subway sign and the BMT will be pretty much the same.
 

Lasers are like that. 
 

subway21.jpg


A footlong isn't always a foot long.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2015/10/21/subway-settles-lawsuit-over-too-short-footlongs.html

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7 hours ago, chuso007 said:

A full composite mast costs 1,625USD (just checked in West Coast Sailing). I understand they will not brake and all that but the truth is my mast is (I think) the original from 1983 and is not even slightly bent. 

A 460m, 30% carbon windsurf mast costs around 170€, a good 100% carbon 460m costs 405€. I know it's not the same thing, but the difference in price is ridiculous.

The problem with laser parts is that they are so overpriced I'd feel stupid if I bought them. I'll stick with cheap copies.

 

What he said...

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10 minutes ago, Wess said:

What he said...

It wasn't better before the break up and it applies for LP as well... 

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LOL I see PSA is catching shit on their FB page for taking money and not delivering the product.... wait for it....

ILCA stickers!!

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

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Subway and Lasers/ILCA are very similar , both low quality things that do their jobs satisfactory.

But tbh there a lot better/nicer things to eat.

And sail :D

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21 minutes ago, Xeon said:

Subway and Lasers/ILCA are very similar , both low quality things that do their jobs satisfactory.

But tbh there a lot better/nicer things to eat.

And sail :D

And there are a lot of nastier things to eat. 

Australians eat witchetty grubs...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4BLILeI1w_HDveSApd7b

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11 minutes ago, tillerman said:

And there are a lot of nastier things to eat. 

Australians eat witchetty grubs...

images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4BLILeI1w_HDveSApd7b

You don’t really want to invite a discussion about what Americans eat... 

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1 hour ago, Wess said:

LOL I see PSA is catching shit on their FB page for taking money and not delivering the product.... wait for it....

ILCA stickers!!

You couldn’t make this stuff up.

Although the advert says they are free so not sure why anyone stumped up cash. Stupid is as stupid does I suppose.

DA0E1E84-68BA-4C64-94A7-36A6FF77132E.jpeg

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Shipping costs, I guess

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1 hour ago, Bill5 said:

Shipping costs, I guess

It is a long way to ship stuff from Australia. ILCA really needs to appoint an ILCA sticker printer in North America.

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4 minutes ago, tillerman said:

It is a long way to ship stuff from Australia. ILCA really needs to appoint an ILCA sticker printer in North America.

No need. All the boats will have them now. Sorry if you are in the sticker business and was fishing for some work... Not a sticker guy myself, I peeled them all off my boat. 

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2 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

No need. All the boats will have them now. Sorry if you are in the sticker business and was fishing for some work...

Yes as an ILCA  member I got my super duper super secret ILCA sticker. Put it on the boat and once on the boat  the only people that can see the super duper super secret sticker are current   ILCA class members. 

PS

No need to go through the voting process to appoint an official super duper super secret North American  sticker printer. We are in a global economy now.  Shipping is an easy process. 

 

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7 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

No need. All the boats will have them now. Sorry if you are in the sticker business and was fishing for some work... Not a sticker guy myself, I peeled them all off my boat. 

No, I am not in the sticker business. But I can get one of these for you if you want. 

312750955.JPG

.

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3 hours ago, tillerman said:

It is a long way to ship stuff from Australia. ILCA really needs to appoint an ILCA sticker printer in North America.

That official is currently Ravi. 
While folks all around the world are bickering, Ravi simply does what needs to be done. His only complaints are directed to himself. 

* What did I do to get myself into this?

If you don’t know who he is, you don’t need to.

Plesse don’t bother him 

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3 hours ago, tillerman said:

It is a long way to ship stuff from Australia. ILCA really needs to appoint an ILCA sticker printer in North America.

I love it.  ILCA tries and fails to sell $10K ILCA boats and hugely expensive carbon composite rigs in NA and now they are failing on stickers too.  A NA sticker builder is the answer!!  They gotta at least be able to manage that no?

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

I love it.  ILCA tries and fails to sell $10K ILCA boats and hugely expensive carbon composite rigs in NA and now they are failing on stickers too.  A NA sticker builder is the answer!!  They gotta at least be able to manage that no?

I hear that new sticker builders will be coming soon.

 

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2 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

im catching up. Who did they appoint as NA builders?

Wessbuilt Industries, Tampa, Florida.

Heard of them? Nobody else has many details.

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Shhhh... don't tell anyone, but the boats from Ovington (UK), PSA (Australia), PSJ (Japan), and Devoti Sailing (Poland) are all very very very similar.

It is as if they are made from the same construction manual and are adhering to tolerances that are exceedingly tight.

No word yet about RioTecna (Argentina), those in the know suspect that they will also be copies of the Ovington/PSA/PSJ/Devoti boats.

Wessland Legal Eagles Inc. will be investigating a breach of copyright (because the boats all appear to be copies of each other - they are so similar) and excessive margins resulting in high prices - straight after they are done investigating how Trump was robbed of the 2020 election.

 

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34 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

So the old UK builder is complete;y out of the picture?

They are still offering boats for sail without class plaques at prices substantially below the class-approved boats.  Not many details on where these boats are made, maybe Portugal.  Many wonder about the company's continued viability.

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6 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

im catching up. Who did they appoint as NA builders?

Now that is funny right there... 

Thanks for asking.

The answer is the same as when ILCA leadership claimed there would be a NA builder... “no there wont and no there isn’t.”

Suspect down the road there will be a Chinese builder and NA assembler if you are into that kinda thing.

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6 minutes ago, Wess said:

Now that is funny right there... 

Thanks for asking.

The answer is the same as when ILCA leadership claimed there would be a NA builder... “no there wont and no there isn’t.”

Suspect down the road there will be a Chinese builder and NA assembler if you are into that kinda thing.

The builder stuff is old news. We are now down to PSA not delivering ILCA stickers to a couple people in Australia. An absolute disaster. Next there will be questions if the stickers are identical between the builders. I hear the elite sailors are ordering their stickers from Devoti. 

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I love Canadian lawn mowers. Thought they would know the grass is greener over the septic tank (HINT some of the folks on FB bitching at PSA ain’t Australian). 

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1 hour ago, EYESAILOR said:

So the old UK builder is complete;y out of the picture?

No they started The Laser Class to compete with ILCA and are selling Lasers at about half the price of a fully an ILCA. Be interesting to see if either organization survives or ever convinces even a 1/10th of Laser owners to join.  Edit - sorry, Torrid beat me to it.

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1 hour ago, torrid said:

They are still offering boats for sail without class plaques at prices substantially below the class-approved boats.  Not many details on where these boats are made, maybe Portugal.  Many wonder about the company's continued viability.

The worm has turned.

It used to be that the LP boats were considered expensive. Now they are cheaper than class-approved boats.

Interesting to see if multi builder model keeps prices down.

Are the prices identical from each builder? Is that a requirement ? Or can they compete on price?  Can they compete on quality?. If they cannot compete on quality, then presumably they can only compete on price ?   That sound slike a tough business .

If they can compete on quality....what happens to the one design ethos?

 

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15 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

The worm has turned.

It used to be that the LP boats were considered expensive. Now they are cheaper than class-approved boats.

Interesting to see if multi builder model keeps prices down.

Are the prices identical from each builder? Is that a requirement ? Or can they compete on price?  Can they compete on quality?. If they cannot compete on quality, then presumably they can only compete on price ?   That sound slike a tough business .

If they can compete on quality....what happens to the one design ethos?

 

They can compete on price.

They can compete on "quality" as long as they comply with the construction manual which has quite loose tolerances by modern boat-building standards. The Olympic evaluation panel, for example, dinged the Laser on this issue last year.

What happens to the one design ethos? Good question.

 

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What happened to the one design ethos?  Well...

The Laser one design ethos died when ILCA leadership cast aside the long held bedrock principle of a regional SMOD and sold out to WS and PSA and adopted FRAND which mingles different boats from different builders and different building tweaks into the same regions while at the same time working to preclude similar generic Lasers/ILCAs. Interestingly, ILCA hold their important events using boats from only one builder to eliminate that problem (of different FRAND builders being non identical) for the elite.

Now on a positive note some clubs are already realizing this essentially opens the door to allowing lower priced generic boats at the club level as they previously allowed generic sails and parts and so some clubs have already said yes to allowing the lower priced LPE Lasers into their club fleets to improve accessibility.  There are of course still plaque nazis as well that want to stop that.  It will be interesting to see which side prevails.

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Did not the original SMOD concept die when the Quebec manufacturer of Lasers went broke because they built Lasers so well there was no more market for them?

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Not sure if there was ever just one mfg.  I think there was but not 100% positive.  The regional SMOD was as effective though from an OD standpoint because in any region there was only one manufacturer and seller.  Technically if you wanted an edge and a boat built to your exact specifications you could order/arrange and import a boat for personal use from any of the regional SMOD builders but with very rare exception it was only the elite that did this.

The fact remain though there was and still is enough of a difference that folks would do this and the class recognized the issue and at high level events like the Olympics there were supplied boats from only one manufacturer to mitigate that.

Now FRAND and ILCA has brought the inequity to all.  And charged them more for it.  Good on The Laser Class and clubs that allow the affordable non-plaqued LPE Lasers to play.  If that trend continues and sustains it will be great from club level grass root sailors.

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Its all good.

Life will continue. Some will buy cheap boats. Some will buy official boats. Some builders will thrive , some will lose money and chuck in the towel or just do it on a boutique basis.

93 pages wow. Time to chill.

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Not with so many fish on the line and so deeply hooked. It’s fun to have morning coffee and see who just couldn’t resist. This thread catches flies, lawnmowers, and all sorts from all countries. You never know might turn up. Better than covid or politics!!

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Oops see below

Edited by Bill5
Messed up

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

Not with so many fish on the line and so deeply hooked. It’s fun to have morning coffee and see who just couldn’t resist. This thread catches flies, lawnmowers, and all sorts from all countries. You never know might turn up. Better than covid or politics!!

Alrighty then! Let's start again!

On 3/28/2019 at 5:08 AM, Wess said:
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On 12/3/2020 at 11:54 PM, EYESAILOR said:

So the old UK builder is complete;y out of the picture?

To add to the answers above, technically, no, that's up to them. 

I don't think many (anyone?) can see them doing it under the current ownership - and the value of the company will continue to diminish as the new European builders become more established. (As with the company which owns the Laser sunburst IP, as the ILCA brand becomes established).

From the current owner's perspective, selling now is likely to return a fraction of what the company was worth five years ago, though many times what it likely will be worth in five years' time.

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15 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Life will continue. A few will buy cheap boats. Many will buy official boats. Some builders will thrive , some will lose money and chuck in the towel or just do it on a boutique basis.

FIFY

On 12/4/2020 at 1:51 AM, Wess said:

No they started The Laser Class to compete with ILCA and are selling Lasers at about half the price of a fully an ILCA.

And here we have it. An example of alternate math and alternate linguistics with the use of "about half", no doubt an intentional attempt to cement one's position as the community idiot. (Job well done Wess).

Of course, price differences with the unofficial LP boats don't amount to much if:

  1. There are no boats available
  2. The boat needs repair within months after purchase, requiring it to be returned to the manufacturer
  3. Your intention is to race in official ILCA events.

===

Interestingly (at least to a Laser/ILCA nerd like me), there are a few resellers who list both Ovington and LP boats:

For example:

WestCoast are listing both: LP boats for $6990 (The basic and fully kitted LP boats appear to have the same price, a mistake?), and preorders of a basic Ovington from $7250, with a fully kitted boat $9425. (As with the common practice in the US, prices probably don't include taxes.)

Wondering if @WestCoast can comment on the current stock levels of the LP boats, and when the first Ovington boats are expected.

Negrinautica list LP boats for 5650 € which is the fully kitted version (The site says LP boats are in stock, I'm not clear if these are old boats which carry the official ILCA/WS plaque, or are the new unofficial ones, or if the website is out of date); and also listing Ovington ILCA 7 boats for 7,490 € (Alloy spars) and 8,100.00 € with the composite top section. The Ovington ILCA 6 and ILCA 4 are slightly less (see link). Prices include VAT.

---

Devoti ILCA 7 are listed for 5911.67 € (alloy spars), and 6575.00 € with the composite top section. Prices exclude VAT. Devoti ILCA 6 and ILCA 4 slightly less.

---

PS: According to Ovington a few days ago, they have shipped their first 100 boats. With Devoti, I haven't spoken to Luca for a bit so don't know their numbers. Devoti boats are starting to show up at regattas.

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Also, thought to add that in New Zealand, the price of a fully kitted PSA ILCA 7 (composite top section) is $12,920 NZD (includes 15% taxes), which at today's exchange is US $9104.

Given the low production numbers of PSA, expensive freight costs, and a margin that keeps Dan Slater in business - in my view, that is a fair price. Of course, it would be wonderful if it was half price, but not that meant half the availability, or if half of the boats supplied break within months of purchase. 

Also to keep things in perspective, travel costs from New Zealand for a top sailor are pretty significant, most spend more on travel than on boats. 

For comparison, the asking price for an Aero is $16,500 NZD  (includes 15% taxes), which at today's exchange is US $11,626. My understanding is that there so far have been six sold in NZ (ever); there is no fleet racing.

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6 hours ago, Bruce Hudson said:

F

 

===

Interestingly (at least to a Laser/ILCA nerd like me), there are a few resellers who list both Ovington and LP boats:

For example:

WestCoast are listing both: LP boats for $6990 (The basic and fully kitted LP boats appear to have the same price, a mistake?), and preorders of a basic Ovington from $7250, with a fully kitted boat $9425. (As with the common practice in the US, prices probably don't include taxes.)

Wondering if @WestCoast can comment on the current stock levels of the LP boats, and when the first Ovington boats are expected.

Negrinautica list LP boats for 5650 € which is the fully kitted version (The site says LP boats are in stock, I'm not clear if these are old boats which carry the official ILCA/WS plaque, or are the new unofficial ones, or if the website is out of date); and also listing Ovington ILCA 7 boats for 7,490 € (Alloy spars) and 8,100.00 € with the composite top section. The Ovington ILCA 6 and ILCA 4 are slightly less (see link). Prices include VAT.

---

Devoti ILCA 7 are listed for 5911.67 € (alloy spars), and 6575.00 € with the composite top section. Prices exclude VAT. Devoti ILCA 6 and ILCA 4 slightly less.

---

PS: According to Ovington a few days ago, they have shipped their first 100 boats. With Devoti, I haven't spoken to Luca for a bit so don't know their numbers. Devoti boats are starting to show up at regattas.

Thank you for the info.

In US Fully kitted LP $ 6990  Fully Kitted Ovington $9425    +34%

In Europe Fully Kitted LP EU 5650   Fully Kitted OvingtonEU 7490 +33%

Seems reasonable price differential.  Not too much to prevent someone keen on elite legal racing boat to pay up and yet just enough to allow someone who wants local club boat or resort boat with the sunburst logo to get a cheaper entry point.

Markets and competition working. 

Ovington do really good work, so even at the club level, the better sailors might pay up for quality (nobody want to save $2500 and finish second) and the ability to travel. But joe Midfleet who shares helming on Wednesday evenings with his daughter, and the only traveling the boat will do is for that summer vacation to the Cape where the boat will get dragged up and down the beach a few times....well they might go for the generic. 

Sell LP to a local Portuguese business man who needs even less of a margin and then the generic is all set. :D

How much is the ILCA plaque. Could said Portuguese builder apply for plaque status?

Anyway prices seem incredibly reasonable.

Dealer has to make 50-100% mark up Lets assume 75% for argument. So whole sale to dealer at $4k.  WEst coast has to unload container, pay staff, demo boats, give occasional  discounts, cover rent, support sailing etc on $2,990 per boat.

15 boats in a container, shipping cost and all the customs would be maybe $375 per boat????  it means LP has to make a profit on a wholesale price of approx $3,625. Budget for a 30% margin?  So costs have to come in at $2,800. Costs include warranty and some low key sales and service. Lets allow $400 . Boat has to come out of the mold + parts and sail for around $2,400 k....thats tight.  Gotta keep those components cheap.

 

 

 

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19 minutes ago, EYESAILOR said:

it means LP has to make a profit on a wholesale price of approx $3,625. Budget for a 30% margin?  

I don't think it's a safe assumption that LP are including a conventional margin. When they introduced their boats without plaques the differential was, as I recall, vastly in excess of the cost of the plaque, the sail button and the designer's royalty that they had stopped paying anyway. 

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5 hours ago, EYESAILOR said:

Dealer has to make 50-100% mark up Lets assume 75% for argument. So whole sale to dealer at $4k.  WEst coast has to unload container, pay staff, demo boats, give occasional  discounts, cover rent, support sailing etc on $2,990 per boat.

15 boats in a container, shipping cost and all the customs would be maybe $375 per boat????  it means LP has to make a profit on a wholesale price of approx $3,625. Budget for a 30% margin?  So costs have to come in at $2,800. Costs include warranty and some low key sales and service. Lets allow $400 . Boat has to come out of the mold + parts and sail for around $2,400 k....thats tight.  Gotta keep those components cheap.

@EYESAILOR I wish we made anything close to this sort of markup. :wub:

All of the work you described above is done with a lot less than that.

Shipping, you're not far off actually.  You can fit 20x Lasers/ILCAs in a 40'HC can.  Door to door is ~$6000-$7500USD to the west coast including all the fees, taxes, etc.
Then yes, there is a work once it arrives to unload, unpack, inspect, store. We're pretty good at that now, but, it's real staff time for sure.

 

@Bruce Hudson  Honestly not sure of our total stock of our own LP boats (I am traveling at the moment).  

I mentioned a 1-2 months ago, that we still had 2020 plaqued, Event Lasers in stock (we bought everything LP had remaining).
Some people took exception to those being 'new boats' - so, I'll keep my mouth shut.  

For Ovington boats I believe 4 or 5 containers are on order already in North America.  My last update was that they would begin landing this month (December), but, call it Q1.

But I also know demand has been higher than expected for Ovington boats, so, delivery to the east coast won't occur until Spring.  

I believe a level of marketing will begin once the first boats physically land in NA and start getting handed over to the first customers.
It's close.  Once people see them, they can decide if there are physical differences between the builders. 
Can't wait for a decade of that question.

I prepared a 4 page document internally to our team after visiting the factories highlighting the nuances that might be important to our customers.
I don't know if they will ever release that publicly, but, I am sure the debate will be a lively one.... :lol:

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1 minute ago, WestCoast said:

@EYESAILOR I wish we made anything close to this sort of markup. :wub:

All of the work you described above is done with a lot less than that.

Shipping, you're not far off actually.  You can fit 20x Lasers/ILCAs in a 40'HC can.  Door to door is ~$6000-$7500USD to the west coast including all the fees, taxes, etc.
Then yes, there is a work once it arrives to unload, unpack, inspect, store. We're pretty good at that now, but, it's real staff time for sure.

 

Okay.  I can halve that and allow you to charge a $1,500 -$2,000per boat mark up. Not trying to be nosy but honestly if you have gross margin less than that I think you should just stay in Europe, go to Rome and get canonized,

Your costs are staff costs, some kind of interest on the floor plan , real estate.  travel (I believe that supporting sailors and waving the west coast flag at dinghy events has been part of your business model)   and service. Service is such an essential piece of the sailing model and all of that costs you before you have anything left to pay for your back pack and European rail fares.  I also allowed that you have to budget for occasional promotions. That is all before anything reaches the owners pocket who has to take the risk of running the business and buying the inventory. 

Anyway......I will simply say Thank You on behalf of all sailors fr what you do for the sport. Now if while you are in Europe you could drop by the Roslin Institute and get yourself cloned, we could do with a WC clone on the East coast.

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Just a quick PSA.  It's very interesting over on  Ocean Anarchy these days.  Carry on...

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56 minutes ago, RobbieB said:

Just a quick PSA.  It's very interesting over on  Ocean Anarchy these days.  Carry on...

Does Ocean Anarchy have a  4 page book of nuances?

Has anybody suggested to another member that they should be canonized?

Do they have footlongs over there?

Thought not. Carry on,


 

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You don’t need to canonize me but thank you. But do say some prayers for those poor sods who got suckered by ILCA and paid to much for a boat!!

oh and Tiller I am leaving you in charge of the house. We are down Gouv’s way and then just kept going. Within a few hours there will be zero internet or even cell coverage where we are winter backpacking. And then we are taking our sailing skills north. As far north and as close to Bill as I can legally get so we can go faster on the “water” than the Jeep is driving right now... dirt road at this stage so only doing 35mph. See you when I get back in a few weeks or whenever I can find civilization and the internet (and hopefully a nice fireplace, steak, scotch, and warm bed).

GO THE LASER CLASS!

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Take your time! A couple months away from the internet would be good.

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2 hours ago, Wess said:

You don’t need to canonize me but thank you. But do say some prayers for those poor sods who got suckered by ILCA and paid to much for a boat!!

oh and Tiller I am leaving you in charge of the house. We are down Gouv’s way and then just kept going. Within a few hours there will be zero internet or even cell coverage where we are winter backpacking. And then we are taking our sailing skills north. As far north and as close to Bill as I can legally get so we can go faster on the “water” than the Jeep is driving right now... dirt road at this stage so only doing 35mph. See you when I get back in a few weeks or whenever I can find civilization and the internet (and hopefully a nice fireplace, steak, scotch, and warm bed).

GO THE LASER CLASS!

Have fun. We will miss you.

GO THE LASER CLASS!

https://www.thelaserclass.com

1423451875_ScreenShot2020-12-05at1_06_04PM.thumb.png.3088aa8dec15a9167c09a5516530bd2f.png



 

 

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Wess and Tillerman are wishing The Laser Class to go.

I have to say I am a little surprised, but not completely, to hear they support ILCA's position in this way.

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23 minutes ago, Bruce Hudson said:

Wess and Tillerman are wishing The Laser Class to go.

I have to say I am a little surprised, but not completely, to hear they support ILCA's position in this way.

It’s pretty confusing. Wess said he is ordering an Ovi, and Tiller seems to favour LP over RS. These are strange days, indeed. 

 

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4 hours ago, Bill5 said:

Wess said he is ordering an Ovi

Suntory to Make its Australian Soft Drink Debut with Hydration Beverage OVI  | News Release | SUNTORY BEVERAGE & FOOD

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Interesting item on Marine Outfitters website. Note these are Canadian dollars; UDS equivalent ~8,050.

image.png.69592b830726123c6fd50f2c8009485a.png

 

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As it’s the time of good will to all men and putting aside any agendas.

 

Can I ask a simple question? In my circle of real and fb friends I know of no one that has bought a LPE boat without the plaque..

Does anyone on your side of the pond personally know any one that has bought one ? 

 

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No, I think maybe folks on the west coast are waiting to see if there are hulls from Qindao imported directly rather than going through Rhode Island or from LPE in Portugal. 

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The add is for ILCAs

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That’s why I thought it was interesting. I will give Marine Outfitters a call.

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Well, the guy I spoke to sounded a little in the dark, but he says they are ILCAs and they are ordering them from Zim. This is on the Zim Sailing website:

image.thumb.png.711adad40d8cdbb10fa0860a29c8b81b.png

 

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27 minutes ago, Bill5 said:

Well, the guy I spoke to sounded a little in the dark, but he says they are ILCAs and they are ordering them from Zim. This is on the Zim Sailing website:

image.thumb.png.711adad40d8cdbb10fa0860a29c8b81b.png

 

OMG,OMG,OMG now they are going to flood the market in NA with ILCA boats  (that comply  with the builders manual)  from different manufactures . OMG OMG OMG I see super duper super secret vacays for class officials in the future with all the sup duper super secret fees they will be collecting. from all the class legal boats being sold. OMG,OMG,OMG

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Myself, I have everything but my old battered hull upgraded, tuned, just the way I want it, etc. etc. I just need a clubbable new hull only at a reasonable price for my own Ship of Theseus that will presumably last me as long as I am physically capable of sailing a Laser. 

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Announcement expected tomorrow detailing Ovington ILCA distribution in North America.

East Coast, West Coast, South and B.C. Canada distribution will all be covered via large distributors.
Involvement of smaller dealers are also being worked on and more details will be revealed shortly.

Expect six to nine Ovington containers to land in North America in 2021, maybe more if they can ramp production.
First container with boats will arrive on the west coast in about 2 weeks.  Full details tomorrow.

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On 12/7/2020 at 1:38 PM, RobbieB said:

Merry Christmas you Nutters!

ILCA.jpg

Nice!! ... But wrong logo ;-)

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12 minutes ago, chuso007 said:

Nice!! ... But wrong logo ;-)

Circa 1980's.  No longer made.....

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PSo to sum up after 93 pages.

In the last year.

There are 4 new builders.

PSA have sold boats in to the USA.

Ovingtons are about to sell in USA.

LPE boats with plaques have been sold in the USA.

No one seems to know anyone that has bought a LPE boat without a plaque.

 

I wonder and hope that the next year will be as half as interesting. 


 

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On 12/7/2020 at 4:32 PM, VWAP said:

OMG,OMG,OMG now they are going to flood the market in NA with ILCA boats  (that comply  with the builders manual)  from different manufactures . OMG OMG OMG I see super duper super secret vacays for class officials in the future with all the sup duper super secret fees they will be collecting. from all the class legal boats being sold. OMG,OMG,OMG

I believe ZIM China is getting close to being approved.  This is what I sort of expected ZIM US to do.  Probably getting the marketing going a little early as they are the obvious first delivery for this builder.

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2 hours ago, RobbieB said:

I believe ZIM China is getting close to being approved.  This is what I sort of expected ZIM US to do.  Probably getting the marketing going a little early as they are the obvious first delivery for this builder.

Element 6 Evolution (Thailand) is up next for approval. 

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6 hours ago, aroy210677 said:

Element 6 Evolution (Thailand) is up next for approval. 

Thanks for the update, good job to all involved 

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On 12/5/2020 at 7:07 PM, tillerman said:

Have fun. We will miss you.

GO THE LASER CLASS!

https://www.thelaserclass.com

1423451875_ScreenShot2020-12-05at1_06_04PM.thumb.png.3088aa8dec15a9167c09a5516530bd2f.png



 

 

I think we can safely say that "The laser class" will not succeed. As far is I know now eurilca  and all it's member organisations are focussing on getting a better representation in ilca but not on TLC. Next years' Dutch Masters will be an eurilca event as usual. The world sailing meeting in which the TLC application was rejected seems to have sealed the fate. 

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Will it succeed as a club/resort/school boat? How about the grass roots sailor who, for whatever reason, doesn't want to buy used? Much of a market there?

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If you're on our email list, you saw we officially announced our distribution of Ovington ILCAs for Western North America.
There is a distributor in Texas, and one on the East Coast who will announce themselves in their own way.
All will be buying container loads of boats.

Our first container is on the water now - and will arrive at the end of the year.
Our next shipment will go direct to British Columbia, then after that, to our warehouse again.

--
When it became clear this summer that  'do nothing' - was not commercially viable, we evaluated our options.

While we don't enjoy the fact that the class has gone through all this - we are here.
A lot of volunteers have spent *years* trying to free the class from the hold of past builders.
They are to be commended for their efforts.
Now we look forward, not backwards.

--
The process of deciding which builder to chose... was, complex... to say the least.

I've visited most of the factories: UK, USA, Australia, China, Indonesia, New Zealand, Denmark, Argentina.

I went to the Ovington factory again in September.
Seeing the quality control, the fit out, even the methods for live weighing the boats.
Learning how there is an ability to refine how the boats are built (all within the rules) - was eye opening.
We've sold their products for a decade (29ers and MPSs) - and while no company is perfect, they have an attention to detail not common in the industry.

--
I will never claim one builder will make faster boats, that's really not the point.
We wanted to pick what we thought was the *best*. From start to finish, the boat that was the complete package.

1) Build Quality
2) Exact minimum weight, every time
3) Mast rake (it's more important to me that it's stable, not variable from boat to boat)
4) Understanding of construction manual, and tolerances are allowed
5) Fixing nagging issues (auto-bailer interface... leaky daggerboard trunks...imprecise foam placement in the hulls)

We wanted quality and long term resale value, so, our customers didn't even up with disposable hulls.

I am sure all the builders, as approved, will produce good boats.
We just decided Ovington would produce the best. So we selected them.

(One could argue if PSJ wanted to do big production runs - they would be the best..., but, their a boutique builder)

--
The ILCA class will change and evolve, and this is just the start.
We're open to supplying less expensive ILCAs if customers demand that.
But, for now, we picked our horse and we've got multiple containers on order and one the way.

Removing any political misgivings, any scuttlebutt... we're looking forward to being focused on delivering excellent boats to sailors.
That's how we started, and it's really all that matters.
 

There will be more photos and videos once we've got our first batch in Portland.
I've written a long report on the details of why we chose it. If our team releases that for public consumption, happy days.

A lot goes into these decisions, and we're very confident we picked the right ILCA builder.

--
You can read more on our site:  WestCoastSailing.net/ILCA

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Our local rep is taking deposits for ILCA boats from 2 builders that are expected to arrive in March.  My understanding is people are lining up!  Go ILCA!

On a side note Sailing Inc is offering LP "The, (unapproved OD class by WS) Laser Class" boats at the wonderful price.  No takers yet.....One comment heard has been "who the hell wants a Laser just to day sail?"

 

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