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Nigel Calder’s Integral Generator Replacemant

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https://www.integrelmarine.com/

Integrel uses smart new technology to generate up to 9kW of electrical power without compromising your engine’s performance. In fact, the system actively manages its output so that the engine is always running at its most fuel efficient.

By using your engine for both propulsion and power generation, both tasks are delivered at optimum efficiency, resulting in fuel savings of up to 25%. One engine, two jobs, less fuel.

Integrel is completely automatic, working in the background with no direct input from you. It requires no maintenance other than a periodic belt change, offering substantial savings on fuel and maintenance costs across its lifetime.

 

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I saw this earlier on and find it very interesting. Dr Nigel Calder knows what he is talking about.

On the other hand, I think this is not a commercial product (jet). In principle it works, get some production products to the marked is a different thing all tougher. 

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At an early stage, this is for the upgrade and refurbishment market. It will be interesting to see how they end up selling the products. There are so many different variations and setup.

I put on hold getting a generator a few years back. It is still on my wish-list. This would be a good alternative. It would then need to fit into all the other el upgrades I have already completed. I dropped the company an email six months back or so - without any reply. I am impressed with Nigel Calder's findings. As a product, he is in the Alfa or Beta stage. Within two-three years we will see some commercial products. Hopefully, the Dame awards give him some attention and research fonds the concept needs.

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Very cool.  This is a very compelling replacement for a generator; diesel part-load efficiency is pretty good, and this allows you to take advantage of that fact.  

He doesn't get into it, but it seems like shifting to lithium would almost be required; you'd need a really huge house Pb-acid system to charge at 5-9kW, right?  

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53 minutes ago, socalrider said:

Very cool.  This is a very compelling replacement for a generator; diesel part-load efficiency is pretty good, and this allows you to take advantage of that fact.  

He doesn't get into it, but it seems like shifting to lithium would almost be required; you'd need a really huge house Pb-acid system to charge at 5-9kW, right?  

He is a fan of carbon lead acid batteries (such as the Northstar NSB BLUE+) which claim to have an unrestricted charge rate during the bulk phase, however rate is still limited by the maximum charge voltage that can be applied and the internal resistance of the battery.  It actually looks like he's got 4 of the Northstar batteries in the lab the video was shot in.  I've worked with Northstar's standard AGM batteries and they charge at very high rates, the carbon batteries are supposed to be even better.

https://www.northstarbattery.com/product/nsb-100ft-blue

Compare this to a common battery used in boats, trojan flooded deep cycle which references a 0.10 to 0.13 C max charge current during bulk charge. For a 500Ah bank as an example that would be a 65 Amp maximum charge current, and would not provide a good load a huge alternator.

https://www.trojanbattery.com/pdf/TrojanBattery_UsersGuide.pdf

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This is an old idea repackaged to look greeny-hybridy :rolleyes:

Generators have been hooked up to main propulsion engines for ever and ever on ships and larger powerboats. Back in the 90s I dealt with a company doing something like this. We ran into two large problems:

1. Getting 3-5 KW off of the pulley at the front of the engine is quite hard to do without either ripping belts up or ruining the main bearing with side load.

2. The first thing the customers wanted to do was run air conditioning all night and they carbonned their engines to death pretty quick :o

 

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45 minutes ago, kent_island_sailor said:

This is an old idea repackaged to look greeny-hybridy :rolleyes:

I think the diff is that with this setup you can vary the field excitation so that power draw is not just a function of engine speed.  I don't know too much about marine generators though so not sure.  

I had also wondered about the belts/pulleys - it's a good question but I can't imagine it's one Nigel Calder hasn't thought through.  An engine driven water maker could draw something like that, right?  

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Best idea is to mount the generator facing the front of the engine and use a drive shaft from the crankshaft.

Probably needs some work though to have a genny that likes to spin at crankshaft speed.

Like the idea of using a DC generator, don’t like the idea of running at 48 volts.

I wonder about the charge acceptance rate of the batteries, even lead carbons, can’t see they would accept anything like 5 to 10 kw, probably need big lithium’s to make that worthwhile.

And there is no mention of solar, not sure how a decent solar array would link in, looks to me like a solution in search of a problem...

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2 hours ago, olaf hart said:

Best idea is to mount the generator facing the front of the engine and use a drive shaft from the crankshaft.

Probably needs some work though to have a genny that likes to spin at crankshaft speed.

A lot of those problems have been solved by the inverter generators. Doesn't matter what the engine rpm is because there's a DC-AC conversion stage that generates the correct frequency regardless of rpm. Of course the amount of current is dependent on the engine's output but generally the rpm is throttled up with load increase. I can't see why one of these wouldn't work well on a marine diesel.

Agree about the battery charging and very limited use-case though. I certainly wouldn't bother.

FKT

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7 hours ago, socalrider said:

I think the diff is that with this setup you can vary the field excitation so that power draw is not just a function of engine speed.  I don't know too much about marine generators though so not sure.  

I had also wondered about the belts/pulleys - it's a good question but I can't imagine it's one Nigel Calder hasn't thought through.  An engine driven water maker could draw something like that, right?  

That is how ALL generators work except permanent-magnet generators/alternators. A standard engine driven AC generator runs at a fixed RPM to hold 60hz and the field is varied to hold the voltage at the correct point. The engine governor varies the throttle with load to hold the correct RPMs.

This setup - like all systems that supply DC and inverter-gensets that supply AC - does not require a fixed engine RPM. This is more efficient, you can back off to idle RPM  at light loads.

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There have been attempts to fit alternators on, or in place of, the flywheel. Seems like a great idea. Saves weight and solves the ridiculous problematic belt drive. Just a bear to fit to all the different engines.

There is no magic in alternators or generators. To get high power at low speeds takes bulk and weight. More wire, bigger magnetic structures. And lower speed requires more torque...belt load. Tough problem.

A PTO on the tranny would be sweet.

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Three problems:

  • It seems horribly complicated and, in the end once all ancillary equipment is considered, more expensive than a generator.
  • Jury is out as to whether the enormous side loading will have long-term negative effects on diesels. 
  • Charging reduncancy is lost when the generator and main engine are combined.

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I find this technology fascinating. If it is an old idea, even better. It still looks complicated and expensive. 

Integrel Marine might have some test or Alfa test products. I got the feeling it is not a commercial product supported by distributors and support centres. I predict it will take years before Integral Generator replacement becomes a common alternative. If ever.

A small generator is still my prefered option. Most important it gives flexibility and it is a well-tested technology.

 

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I'm having a hard time understanding the target market. 

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2 hours ago, IStream said:

I'm having a hard time understanding the target market. 

I would think the main marked is: retrofit, upgrade for someone going long term cruising in yacht over 45 feet. Then you are spending lots of money. If this is the target marked, most people will go for well tested and tried gear and solutions.

No – you are right – I can’t understand the target market.

Hat off for Nigel Calder and his investors. If he succeeds by coming up with a commercial product; The main marked will be yacht manufacturers that would offer this as an option for new builds. The retrofit and upgrade marked will then follow. Nigel is very good at what he is doing. If someone can develop this he got the right skills and background. That will not mean the product will become a commercial success.

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To me, the target market is anyone who would normally spec a generator, right?  Assuming that the product can do what he says (a bit of a leap, but lots of benefit of the doubt given his rep), it allows you to generate electricity much more efficiently, without the need for a separate heavy & bulky motor, all of the associated plumbing, through-hulls, spare parts, oil changes, etc. etc.  

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Is it really less complicated than a separate genset that also gives you redundancy and no need to convert hundreds of amps from 48VDC to 24VDC or whatever your house voltage is?

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Converting 48VDC to 24/12VDC (even 110/240AC) is way easier than converting diesel to electricity.  If (big if) the system is reliable, I don't see the need for redundancy - maybe a small PV system would be nice to have for trickle charging if you're away from the boat.  I'm not at all an experienced long term cruiser, but I really like the idea of better utilizing the diesel you already have versus adding a second diesel.  But I admit my opinion is pretty uninformed.  

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On 4/16/2019 at 1:43 AM, El Boracho said:

There have been attempts to fit alternators on, or in place of, the flywheel. Seems like a great idea.

http://www.steyr-motors.com/fileadmin/files/DownloadCenter/manuals___spare_parts/Brochures/Options/IFG_Power_13_03_08.pdf

The Calder thing sounds like a typical dc->inverter system but with a fancy control system. The video is a sales talk and, IMO, Calder is prone to enthusiasms. It seems like a pretty cool set of ideas implemented in an interesting way. For me, the control system is the most interesting part.

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3 minutes ago, weightless said:

Yep. But wasn't it 240/50 only?

yeah, now that you mentioned it, i think so...

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5 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

Just buy a big alternator:

http://www.electrodyneinc.com/index.php

How could you? They've used millions in grant money to invent BLDC type alternators, step down regulators, balanced battery chargers and more as a "gift" to the sailing community. Calder himself, went on a cruise.

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2 hours ago, kent_island_sailor said:

The root cause of all of this is people without room for a genset who want need air conditioning at anchor :rolleyes:

FIFY.

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If you NEED it, you also need a different boat too in many cases. If I did kluge some way to run air conditioning off my main engine, it would need to be a really good one because 75% of its capacity would be used getting rid of the heat from the main engine running all night :rolleyes: Not to mention it would be really noisy below.

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I was being sarcastic but I refuse to use that goddamn purple font.

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     I skippered a Hinckley 49 that had a genset for airconditioning. In the VI we would sail all day in the shade of the Bimini and then enjoy cocktails at sundown cooled by the tradewinds. Never needed the genset until time to cook the guests dinner which was on an electric range and over. That meant starting the  engine during happy hour which was not fun for the guests and didn't make us friends in a crowded anchorage. Once dinner was cooked I would shut down the genset and the chef/mate would serve dinner at the cockpit table trying to not sweat on the plates. I would have a windscoop rigged over the V-berth forward which would quickly cool down the galley while we enjoyed dinner in the breezy cockpit. The boat had a center cockpit with a palatial master stateroom aft that the guests used and the mate and I would sleep in the V-berth forward. The scoop made the fwd cabin and salon delightful for a good nights sleep for us but the dodger and Bimini kept most of the breeze from getting into the aft cabin even with the passage door and all hatches and ports open. 

    Within a half hour of the guests turning in the heat from the still hot genset would soak through the aft bulkhead of the engine room especially if modesty made the guess close the passage door aft from the galley into the aft cabin. They would suffer for a while until they would timidly creep forward and beg me to turn on the airconditioning. So close the boat up and start the generator a 11 PM and let it run all night was the result. Once the guest came out of the aft cabin in the morning I could shut down the genset but only after pre-cooking some breakfast on the damned electric range! 

    We had a Hinckley 48 in the fleet with propane stove/oven and no air conditioning or generator and it was by far the superior experience. It looked and sailed much better too.

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On 4/17/2019 at 8:19 AM, IStream said:

I'm having a hard time understanding the target market. 

People that want to run everything on 12/24 vdc and dont want to put on 300 sqft of solar panels to keep their batteries charged. Take a look at Delos or any of the other popular sailing bloggers, the only reason they ever seem to run generators is to charge house batteries and they're always talking about needing more solar.

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As we used to say at my company, "you can sell 50 of anything". If Victron can recoup their R&D expenditure on this by these systems to that rarefied strata of YouTube sailing bloggers, more power to them (rimshot).

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8 hours ago, Mark Set said:

People that want to run everything on 12/24 vdc and dont want to put on 300 sqft of solar panels to keep their batteries charged. Take a look at Delos or any of the other popular sailing bloggers, the only reason they ever seem to run generators is to charge house batteries and they're always talking about needing more solar.

In one of Delos’ last vids they had to refuel because they hadn’t done it for a season (or two?) of liveaboarding and many 1000s of miles back in Brazil. They’ve got triple panels plus twin windgens. They get enough from them to run multiple laptops and wifi all day and run induction cooking. They said the fuel mainly goes towards filling dive tanks, and I’m guessing simply motoring.

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On 4/18/2019 at 10:26 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

Just buy a big alternator:

http://www.electrodyneinc.com/index.php

That's kind of what it looked like to me - a jumped up alternator with some smarter software.

I don't understand packaging it with lead-acid technology at all.

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On 4/19/2019 at 4:32 AM, Rasputin22 said:

     I skippered a Hinckley 49 that had a genset for airconditioning. In the VI we would sail all day in the shade of the Bimini and then enjoy cocktails at sundown cooled by the tradewinds. Never needed the genset until time to cook the guests dinner which was on an electric range and over. That meant starting the  engine during happy hour which was not fun for the guests and didn't make us friends in a crowded anchorage. Once dinner was cooked I would shut down the genset and the chef/mate would serve dinner at the cockpit table trying to not sweat on the plates. I would have a windscoop rigged over the V-berth forward which would quickly cool down the galley while we enjoyed dinner in the breezy cockpit. The boat had a center cockpit with a palatial master stateroom aft that the guests used and the mate and I would sleep in the V-berth forward. The scoop made the fwd cabin and salon delightful for a good nights sleep for us but the dodger and Bimini kept most of the breeze from getting into the aft cabin even with the passage door and all hatches and ports open. 

    Within a half hour of the guests turning in the heat from the still hot genset would soak through the aft bulkhead of the engine room especially if modesty made the guess close the passage door aft from the galley into the aft cabin. They would suffer for a while until they would timidly creep forward and beg me to turn on the airconditioning. So close the boat up and start the generator a 11 PM and let it run all night was the result. Once the guest came out of the aft cabin in the morning I could shut down the genset but only after pre-cooking some breakfast on the damned electric range! 

    We had a Hinckley 48 in the fleet with propane stove/oven and no air conditioning or generator and it was by far the superior experience. It looked and sailed much better too.

The only time we've ever really used our A/C off the dock was in a few places like Panama.

And then, all we did was plan to do our battery charging in the afternoon and run the A/C along with it until the batteries were done. Took the heat of the day off the boat. If we didn't need to charge, we didn't run the A/C and we dealt with it.

In general, even in hot places, you're on the water facing in to the wind the way the designer planned for airflow. Zero wind can be an issue.

In a marina, tied to a dock with a other boats blocking the off angle wind? Yeah, we're not proud, we'll run it A/C at night. But we don't do many marinas for a reason.

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On 4/27/2019 at 4:19 AM, Mark Set said:

People that want to run everything on 12/24 vdc and dont want to put on 300 sqft of solar panels to keep their batteries charged. Take a look at Delos or any of the other popular sailing bloggers, the only reason they ever seem to run generators is to charge house batteries and they're always talking about needing more solar.

You can never have enough solar unless you have a cat.

In spite of the size of the boat, we have a fairly limited amount of open, clear space where you can put panels.

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7 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

You can never have enough solar unless you have a cat.

In spite of the size of the boat, we have a fairly limited amount of open, clear space where you can put panels.

Back to the topic. I admire what Nigel Calder is doing. We need people like him. As many sailors I know of Nigel from his books or bible for boat electricity. Spent a few hours reading and many more hours testing, fault seeking, fixing and installing stuff on my own boat. Air-Con, Solar Panels or a small generator is not onboard. Off those three we will never install Air-Con, most likely never going to install Solar Panels (are intrigued, but it looks ugly, not efficient enough) a small generator, is on my might-to-to-list.

Had five days sailing in the Solent during Easter without visiting marinas. Got back home with 90% charged batteries, full water tanks (from water maker), the wife had the el. blanked on at night, TV, laptops, autopilot, cold beer in the fridge.  Yes - it was short of wind at times. After 150-160 nm, most under sail, some motor sailing. 

My point - if any. I am struggling to see the marked for the Integral Generator Replacement.

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10 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

You can never have enough solar unless you have a cat.

In spite of the size of the boat, we have a fairly limited amount of open, clear space where you can put panels.

Open, clear space is ideal but since that's in short supply on a boat I've come around to thinking that diversity in placement is best. Some panels are always shaded but if you have enough of them some are generally clear no matter the boat orientation, the location of the boom, or the location of the sun.

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6 hours ago, Mogle said:

I admire what Nigel Calder is doing. We need people like him. As many sailors I know of Nigel from his books or bible for boat electricity.

Caveat emptor. He's done good stuff and is a good teacher. However, I try not to confuse that role with the one he plays when he is selling and endorsing products that he has an interest in. 

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6 hours ago, Mogle said:

Back to the topic. I admire what Nigel Calder is doing. We need people like him. As many sailors I know of Nigel from his books or bible for boat electricity. Spent a few hours reading and many more hours testing, fault seeking, fixing and installing stuff on my own boat. Air-Con, Solar Panels or a small generator is not onboard. Off those three we will never install Air-Con, most likely never going to install Solar Panels (are intrigued, but it looks ugly, not efficient enough) a small generator, is on my might-to-to-list.

Had five days sailing in the Solent during Easter without visiting marinas. Got back home with 90% charged batteries, full water tanks (from water maker), the wife had the el. blanked on at night, TV, laptops, autopilot, cold beer in the fridge.  Yes - it was short of wind at times. After 150-160 nm, most under sail, some motor sailing. 

My point - if any. I am struggling to see the marked for the Integral Generator Replacement.

It may be for people more like me - full time live aboard cruisers who go places. I've been close to a year at stretch without being in marinas, I pretty much live at anchor. If I go into a marina 99% of the time it's because I need to fix things that require the help of professional trades that refuse to come out to an anchored boat.

Though I can't see running an 1,000lb, 145 HP turbo diesel at idle to charge batteries when I have a 12HP 7kw generator that's half the size and is meant to run at a constant speed sitting across the engine room from it that uses a fraction of the fuel. It may not be the retrofit market.

It's not a matter of AC to DC and saving anything on the conversion, any power made by spinning things near magnets is going to be AC and needs to be rectified anyway.

I appreciate what he's trying to do as well, even if it doesn't appeal to what I've got going on.

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4 hours ago, B.J. Porter said:

Though I can't see running an 1,000lb, 145 HP turbo diesel at idle to charge batteries when I have a 12HP 7kw generator that's half the size and is meant to run at a constant speed sitting across the engine room from it that uses a fraction of the fuel. It may not be the retrofit market.

This. It's a really bad use of the main engine.

I don't have the room (that I'm willing to sacrifice) for a separate generator and I still wouldn't consider extended running of my main engine to generate electricity. Frankly I'd rather run a 2kW petrol inverter-generator like one of the baby Hondas on deck. Sure the salt air would kill it eventually but they're not that expensive.

FKT

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53 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

This. It's a really bad use of the main engine.

I don't have the room (that I'm willing to sacrifice) for a separate generator and I still wouldn't consider extended running of my main engine to generate electricity. Frankly I'd rather run a 2kW petrol inverter-generator like one of the baby Hondas on deck. Sure the salt air would kill it eventually but they're not that expensive.

FKT

In theory, with a massive enough alternator and big enough batteries, you'd never need a generator...if you moved your boat every couple of days.

We often park somewhere for much longer than that at a stretch.

And packaging that extra big-ass alternator with lead-acid tech? That makes the odds of this working out well a lot lower IMHO, but I've not the expertise or experience of Calder so maybe he knows things I don't.

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1 hour ago, B.J. Porter said:

In theory, with a massive enough alternator and big enough batteries, you'd never need a generator...if you moved your boat every couple of days.

We often park somewhere for much longer than that at a stretch.

And packaging that extra big-ass alternator with lead-acid tech? That makes the odds of this working out well a lot lower IMHO, but I've not the expertise or experience of Calder so maybe he knows things I don't.

I fitted 2 x 200W solar panels to my quarterdeck rails. Hinged down for sailing, out when on the mooring or at anchor. It's a small boat, that amount of solar is heaps for me. I built my boat with low current draw as one of the design choices. Other than LED lighting there's not a lot of stuff needing power. Small refrigerator and a laptop is about it. I've a few Raspberry Pi computers and 12V screens installed.

I'll shift from lead-acid to lithium in 2-3 years. The tech is proven but the price point hasn't dropped to where I want it to be. It's getting there, though.

FKT

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Have you looked at tubular or spiral wound gels?

pretty much the same number and depth of discharge cycles as lithium, but lower charge acceptance.

no need for complicated battery management systems, and they don’t cost  much more that AGM’s.

ideal for solar systems, as you can leave them fully charged all the time, whereas lithium deteriorates faster if kept round 100% SOC.

kim B recently put some in his powerboat, interested to see how they work out.

Our AGM’s are holding up well, but I would be inclined to go with these batteries rather than lithium next round.

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1 hour ago, olaf hart said:

Have you looked at tubular or spiral wound gels?

pretty much the same number and depth of discharge cycles as lithium, but lower charge acceptance.

no need for complicated battery management systems, and they don’t cost  much more that AGM’s.

ideal for solar systems, as you can leave them fully charged all the time, whereas lithium deteriorates faster if kept round 100% SOC.

kim B recently put some in his powerboat, interested to see how they work out.

Our AGM’s are holding up well, but I would be inclined to go with these batteries rather than lithium next round.

I can not describe emphasize enough how much I love our LiFePO4 batteries. Life changing.

If you're living on board, you don't leave them around much unless you have to travel a lot like we did in 2018 - spent about half the year off the boat. Leaving them at 50% was really easy.

 

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2 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I fitted 2 x 200W solar panels to my quarterdeck rails. Hinged down for sailing, out when on the mooring or at anchor. It's a small boat, that amount of solar is heaps for me. I built my boat with low current draw as one of the design choices. Other than LED lighting there's not a lot of stuff needing power. Small refrigerator and a laptop is about it. I've a few Raspberry Pi computers and 12V screens installed.

I'll shift from lead-acid to lithium in 2-3 years. The tech is proven but the price point hasn't dropped to where I want it to be. It's getting there, though.

FKT

Back before I dropped my damned spinnaker overboard, solar panels in that spot would have prevented my flying it. I'm refusing to put panels over there against the future hope I'll get another kite or a Code 0 some day.

And @willp14335 will hate those more, I think, than he does the jerry cans. Maybe.

We're thinking of replacing our deck mounted ones with newer, better ones. Then also lowering our Bimini about 6" and putting some more watts up on top there. Some day.

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Right now I have to run my Perkins 4236 with two 100amp 12v alternators to charge my 10k ah gal batteries.  I”ve got no great loads now but thinking of adding water maker, washer/dryer and poss switch to electric induction.  A system like this would be a great alternative to trying to find a spot for the gen set in my boat.  There is no space under floor and the engine is crammed under the aft cockpit with a v_drive forward. I’d have to redesign the interior and add Water and ventilation resources etc.  

 

I like the idea that it takes the engine from running at a low load (With carbon buildup etc) to regulating the load with a profile tuned to the specific profile of your diesel auxiliary.  This seems cheaper and in many ways better in my limited use case. 
 

fwiw my boat is 35 years old and needs major revamp of plumbing, electrical etc.  planning how best to do this now and the electric system is a big part. 

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10,000 AH?  

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2 hours ago, Cruisin Loser said:

10,000 AH?  

2x 60kWh Tesla packs?

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That's still a bucket load of batteries. 

Before you get a generator look at lots of solar. Quiet cheap and lasts decades with zero maintenance. 

Imagine 1kW of solar running 7+ hrs a day or 7 KW of generator running 1 hr a day... 

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21 minutes ago, Zonker said:

That's still a bucket load of batteries. 

Before you get a generator look at lots of solar. Quiet cheap and lasts decades with zero maintenance. 

Imagine 1kW of solar running 7+ hrs a day or 7 KW of generator running 1 hr a day... 

This.

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This is a interesting concept but I think it's similar to when Calder had the article about moving towards process controls to replace basic electrical layouts.  These are now standard on alot of new boats but before it was a stretch.  I only see a narrow benifit for the power setup and alot of limitations. In a few generations of solid state generation and storage, yes the concept could work and be simple but for me now it has few pluses.

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Like I said, tailshaft generators have been on commercial boats and ships since forever. Add some fancy regulators and lithium batteries, pretend it is a new idea, and profit :D

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I myself have been looking for an energy converter for a long time and then, as technologies became smarter, I bought https://thetoolscout.com/what-size-generator-do-i-need-for-my-camper/. I have been looking for him for a very long time. I had different generator coils, homemade converters, I saved on everything. But there is still a question, at idle, with the light on, if you increase the speed, then everything becomes brighter and when switching to idle, it again becomes the same brightness. Is this the demise of the generator? I asked a friend for knowingly working coils and check how it will be with them. And regarding the generator, this is probably normal, unless the battery is weak or will die soon (the container does not hold). Or is it something else?

 

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room cost maintenance instant power 

I think a el motor/gen attached to the prop is not used much but an idea that needs investigation

why not use the free power of the boat sailing to spin the prop/generator ?

and that same free power to move the boat instantly available at a flipped switch

windmill and solar for times not sailing

and invest the funds not spent on the multi Ks diesel on a huge battery bank lipo or what ever you think is safe or can afford

to bad there is no real way to use battery weight as ballast yet to be a perfect solution a water proof low mounted battery would be idea

or a practical way to move batterys like water ballast tacking with too much rube goldbergish stuff

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15 minutes ago, nota said:

room cost maintenance instant power 

I think a el motor/gen attached to the prop is not used much but an idea that needs investigation

why not use the free power of the boat sailing to spin the prop/generator ?

and that same free power to move the boat instantly available at a flipped switch

windmill and solar for times not sailing

and invest the funds not spent on the multi Ks diesel on a huge battery bank lipo or what ever you think is safe or can afford

to bad there is no real way to use battery weight as ballast yet to be a perfect solution a water proof low mounted battery would be idea

or a practical way to move batterys like water ballast tacking with too much rube goldbergish stuff

Because it is:

Expensive

Complicated

Hard to impossible to get fixed out in BFE

Takes up a lot of space

Does not have the range of conventional diesel power

Only so much power is available to be harvested by spinning the prop

There is no free lunch, getting significant power from a prop is like towing a dinghy that has the outboard running in reverse

Endless speechifying to all your mates about your free power green boat that you claim can do things that are not physically possible will annoy the shit out of them and thus they won't give you a tow when your batteries go dead or you blow a fuse.

 

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granted not ready for prime time yet

but el car use will provide cheap wrecked parts battery motor controlers ect to play with

and development of better units in the future

and not for long range under power if you need that

but it is a sail boat we are talking about

and most boats do not do long distance most day sail or weekend and need power in short random uses

to get off/on the dock out a channel /bridge and MOSTLY SAIL so no need to use all day long or desire to do that

no stink or fire danger from fuel

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If replacing or building new something like these would work.  As far as regen the bigger the boat the better.  

For small boats the propeller that is good for pushing through the water is not good for regen.  (At least that is my experience.)

Ideally you have a variable pitch prop but that complicates things.  

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14 hours ago, nota said:

granted not ready for prime time yet

but el car use will provide cheap wrecked parts battery motor controlers ect to play with

and development of better units in the future

and not for long range under power if you need that

but it is a sail boat we are talking about

and most boats do not do long distance most day sail or weekend and need power in short random uses

to get off/on the dock out a channel /bridge and MOSTLY SAIL so no need to use all day long or desire to do that

no stink or fire danger from fuel

The original Calder scheme most certainly has fuel and fire danger, remember this is a tailshaft generator on a diesel.

Your idea of pure electric with regen won't have fuel, but most certainly would have fire danger, possibly quite a lot of it.

"and most boats do not do long distance most day sail or weekend and need power in short random uses" is assuming facts not in evidence.

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what is the percent of sailors and sailboats that are used for local sails vs distance

I have owned about 2 dozen boats and only 2 of them went on distant trips so less then 1 in ten went distance

one had and used a outboard miami to NC ditch part and offshore also and back the other did miami to key west and back withOUT any motor pure sail

I feel the majority of boats day sail or week end vs the few that need and use extended range of a diesel

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26 minutes ago, nota said:

what is the percent of sailors and sailboats that are used for local sails vs distance

I have owned about 2 dozen boats and only 2 of them went on distant trips so less then 1 in ten went distance

one had and used a outboard miami to NC ditch part and offshore also and back the other did miami to key west and back withOUT any motor pure sail

I feel the majority of boats day sail or week end vs the few that need and use extended range of a diesel

100% of every boat I have ever owned. I would not bother having a 35 foot boat and all the expenses attached to that for daysailing. When you have a job, saying well the Bermuda high is settled in so I'll tell the boss I am not coming back on Monday doesn't work.

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