Murphness

Need Advice - C&C 34/36+

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It's time for a cruising boat and I just stumbled on the C&C 34+. It seems to have several names, and several different options (Race/cruise/some combo of the two). I'm draft restricted for club storage so I'd be stuck with the shoal draft version. Is that a deal breaker for this boat? It seems to tic every box otherwise. Wife is dead set on a Jeanneau in the 34-38' range which I'm fine with, but the C&C seems to be more/better boat for the money.

Anyone have experience with these things?

Any suggestions in the 33-38' range that sails well, 6' max draft and is comfortable for wife and toddler (easy companionway and decently comfortable cockpit)? 2 cabins, ability for below deck AP and swim platform are also high on the list. Sabre 34 Targa seemed a good option but maybe too slow? I'll still be racing the big boats so will get my speed fix elsewhere, but I think I'd lose my shit if I were stuck going 5 knots in every direction... Budget in the 50K range I think.

Cheers,

Murph

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Friend of mine has a 37+ had keel cut  (Mars keel) for Great Lakes. Very nice boat,  the 37R is the more  racy but very much the same. Same goes for 34+ and 34R. The wife will love the full aft cabin in the 37+. 

 

 

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Keep your wife happy.

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Murph, this of course begs the question.  Where's the Cone?

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8 minutes ago, HuronBouy said:

Friend of mine has a 37+ had keel cut  (Mars keel) for Great Lakes. Very nice boat,  the 37R is the more  racy but very much the same. Same goes for 34+ and 34R. The wife will love the full aft cabin in the 37+. 

 

 

Unfortunately 38' is max LOA, also due to club storage restrictions. The 37+ looks great though.

 

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4 minutes ago, Hitchhiker said:

Murph, this of course begs the question.  Where's the Cone?

Cone is still in the hanger. I bet she'll re-appear in 2020. Almost happened this year but we've all got kids now and it makes it that much more difficult. I do most of my fast boat racing down in Newport now and rock the T-Bird at home in Boston. The Boston/Mass Bay handicap scene is in a sad state these days. The fleet is probably at 25% of what it was 10 years ago...

I'm lucky that my wife and toddler love to be on the water, so trying to find something we can all enjoy until he's old enough to be out racing with me :)

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4 minutes ago, Sea warrior said:

Sorry I cannot help you with your query but on a related note, Did you know that

 “The original Gaelic form of the name Murphy is O Murchadha or Mac Murchadha, which are both derived from the word "murchadh," meaning "sea warrior."

https://www.houseofnames.com/murphy-family-crest

 

:-)

 

I did not know that! Thanks!

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Pearson 36-2,  choice of shoal center board or fixed keel.  Good sailing short handed, handles well Jib only in a breeze.  in and out of slips easy to back in and control.  lots of volume down below.  

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46 minutes ago, j22679@aol.com said:

Pearson 36-2,  choice of shoal center board or fixed keel.  Good sailing short handed, handles well Jib only in a breeze.  in and out of slips easy to back in and control.  lots of volume down below.  

I'm really hoping for something with a swim platform. Thanks for the suggestion though!

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1 hour ago, ROADKILL666 said:

Look at a j-35c

Good one. I've always been anti J-Boats, but I'd be willing to go to the darkside for the right deal. J-35C is still a bit spendy though. I don't see anything sub 80K.

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A good friend and brother are selling their C&C 36, lying Tampa BAy YC.  Owned many years, well cared for, sailed weekly in the bay.  Hate to see her go.  Been to Key West many times.  dacarls@gmail.com  

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We sail a Sabre 34T in Maine. You arr welcome to sail her in a month or so to see. Not as slow as I thought for what she is. 

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1 hour ago, dacarls said:

A good friend and brother are selling their C&C 36, lying Tampa BAy YC.  Owned many years, well cared for, sailed weekly in the bay.  Hate to see her go.  Been to Key West many times.  dacarls@gmail.com  

The 1970's/80's 36 is a totally different beast than the 34+. Like 40 sec/mile difference in PHRF ratings, quarterberth vs. aft cabin, a few other details.

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30 minutes ago, Ishmael said:

The 1970's/80's 36 is a totally different beast than the 34+. Like 40 sec/mile difference in PHRF ratings, quarterberth vs. aft cabin, a few other details.

Yes the "plus" means 3 feet more of waterline 

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Catalina 320?  They ought to sail upwind ok with a double-spreader rig and reasonable underbody.  There are lots on the market in the USA in your price range and the accomodations below are very nice.  I have never sailed one but with a folding prop and some decent sails they shouldn't be too much of a dog.

The thing with the C&C's is the big headsail - who is going to bring that in if you tack upwind?  You really want something with a smaller foretriangle to make the boat easy to handle.

 

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Love that boat.  The 34+ is the “cruiser” version of the 34R - a more useful  interior.  Think of it as an older precursor to the 110.

Don't take my advice, Bob knows best.  

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/perry/c&c34.htm

Having a 30-2 for 10+ years,  Rob Ball designed some great machines.  This one is big enough and should work out just fine, but it is not a floating apartment that some advocate, it’s a sailboat - even with a shoal keel (cringe).  Sail one - it’s the only way to know.  

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2 hours ago, evenflow said:

Love that boat.  The 34+ is the “cruiser” version of the 34R - a more useful  interior.  Think of it as an older precursor to the 110.

Don't take my advice, Bob knows best.  

http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/perry/c&c34.htm

Having a 30-2 for 10+ years,  Rob Ball designed some great machines.  This one is big enough and should work out just fine, but it is not a floating apartment that some advocate, it’s a sailboat - even with a shoal keel (cringe).  Sail one - it’s the only way to know.  

There's a 34+ with a custom keel-centerboard here. Beautiful boat. Sails very well. If I were looking in this size/price range, I'd certainly give it very strong consideration. The one caveat is that the deck layout is not to everyone's taste. And of course big masthead rigs can be tough on a cruising couple. But it's a great boat.

FB- Doug

 

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7 hours ago, dash34 said:

 

The thing with the C&C's is the big headsail - who is going to bring that in if you tack upwind?  You really want something with a smaller foretriangle to make the boat easy to handle.

 

Get a smaller headsail...problem solved and it will still sail rings around a Catalina

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1 hour ago, tiz said:

CS34?  Google it.

 

--Kevin

Good one. Not the prettiest but there's one in NJ that tics all the boxes and it seems fairly priced. I really liked the CS 36 too. There's a 30 at our club that sails really well.

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Kind of ugly duckling but sails like a dream upwind (I have 6'3" keel).  A little sticky downwind but does sail to it's rating with good crew.   We've sailed ours to Maine from CT and spent 12 days up there.   I'm 6'2" tall and mostly fit everywhere.

We've had ours since fall 2006 and it came from the great lakes.

 

--Kevin

 

 

IMG_4193.JPG

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Express 34 , 6' draft. Nice interior.  great all around performance.  Olson 34 is very similar and also a good option.

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16 minutes ago, tiz said:

Kind of ugly duckling but sails like a dream upwind (I have 6'3" keel).  A little sticky downwind but does sail to it's rating with good crew.   We've sailed ours to Maine from CT and spent 12 days up there.   I'm 6'2" tall and mostly fit everywhere.

We've had ours since fall 2006 and it came from the great lakes.

 

--Kevin

 

 

IMG_4193.JPG

Actually looks much nicer there than in the YW add. I wish that one had the 6'3" keel. Guessing the shoal draft sails like shit upwind at 4'6" draft.

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44 minutes ago, Callahan said:

Express 34 , 6' draft. Nice interior.  great all around performance.  Olson 34 is very similar and also a good option.

Good options, but I think it'll be tough to find boats that weren't rode hard and put away wet. The two I found are in pretty rough shape...

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4 hours ago, sail69 said:

Get a smaller headsail...problem solved and it will still sail rings around a Catalina

Lower the boom and add 2 ft to it

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13 hours ago, dash34 said:

Catalina 320?  They ought to sail upwind ok with a double-spreader rig and reasonable underbody.  There are lots on the market in the USA in your price range and the accomodations below are very nice.  I have never sailed one but with a folding prop and some decent sails they shouldn't be too much of a dog.

The thing with the C&C's is the big headsail - who is going to bring that in if you tack upwind?  You really want something with a smaller foretriangle to make the boat easy to handle.

 

I have been singlehanding a C&C 35 for decades now. If you aren't racing you don't HAVE to have a huge genoa up. You can give up some sail area and still pass most of the CatBenHuns.

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11 hours ago, sail69 said:

Get a smaller headsail...problem solved and it will still sail rings around a Catalina

Yup. Sorry, I didn't read carefully that the OP was looking at the 34+.  PHRF for Cat 320 is about 150, for the 34+ it is around 110.  The original C&C 34 which has PHRF about the same as the 320 is what I was thinking of.

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C&C 34 is good choice. Why anti Jboat?

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Murphness,

I owned a C&C 1989 37xl, great boat. The 34/36+, or XL is very similar and looked at a few before buying my current 1980 C&C 36. The 34/36 is a great boat and besides a really smallish cockpit, it is quite similar to the 37 I had. Both a great sailing boats but have never lived up to the racing hype, and the bad phrf ratings they have. So if you are going to race it. I would vote no.

From a fast cruising boat that is well built and quite modern for a late 80's boat. One item of caution is to check under the open transom to see if the steering quadrant is original. It is open at the transom end and exposed to open air/water etc. Mine let loose on an overnight race on the back side of block under full chute. Fun times! 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, MysticSailor said:

Murphness,

I owned a C&C 1989 37xl, great boat. The 34/36+, or XL is very similar and looked at a few before buying my current 1980 C&C 36. The 34/36 is a great boat and besides a really smallish cockpit, it is quite similar to the 37 I had. Both a great sailing boats but have never lived up to the racing hype, and the bad phrf ratings they have. So if you are going to race it. I would vote no.

From a fast cruising boat that is well built and quite modern for a late 80's boat. One item of caution is to check under the open transom to see if the steering quadrant is original. It is open at the transom end and exposed to open air/water etc. Mine let loose on an overnight race on the back side of block under full chute. Fun times! 

 

 

 

Good to know about the transom. What was the fix?

The wife was concerned about the cockpit as well. It'd be nice if it comfortably fit 6.

I don't think I'd ever race it competitively maybe a DH thing or something down the line, but it will almost strictly be a cruising boat.

 

 

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22 hours ago, Scrapio said:

C&C 34 is good choice. Why anti Jboat?

In the interest of fairness to J-Boat owners, I'll simply say that many of the J-Boats I've sailed on or against have been owned by people I'd prefer never to sail with again. There are many exceptions of course, and in one particular case the owners of a large cruisey type J are great friends.

I think I'm also jealous of their success and annoyed by the price point. They're doing something right for sure, and I'd certainly take one for free, but I've got some preconceived notions that I can't get over.

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14 minutes ago, Murphness said:

In the interest of fairness to J-Boat owners, I'll simply say that many of the J-Boats I've sailed on or against have been owned by people I'd prefer never to sail with again. There are many exceptions of course, and in one particular case the owners of a large cruisey type J are great friends.

I think I'm also jealous of their success and annoyed by the price point. They're doing something right for sure, and I'd certainly take one for free, but I've got some preconceived notions that I can't get over.

To each their own.But you have to admit the old js are bullet proof 

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34 minutes ago, Murphness said:

In the interest of fairness to J-Boat owners, I'll simply say that many of the J-Boats I've sailed on or against have been owned by people I'd prefer never to sail with again. There are many exceptions of course, and in one particular case the owners of a large cruisey type J are great friends.

I think I'm also jealous of their success and annoyed by the price point. They're doing something right for sure, and I'd certainly take one for free, but I've got some preconceived notions that I can't get over.

I bought a J to replace my C&C. Cost about the same for a  4 foot shorter J.  I’m still the same.  

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6 minutes ago, evenflow said:

I bought a J to replace my C&C. Cost about the same for a  4 foot shorter J.  I’m still the same.  

Like I said, many exceptions... I think the local 105 fleet (of a decade ago) jaded me so hard that now I assume everyone who owns one is an obnoxious mid level banker who thinks he's gods gift to sailing.

 

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I've raced all kinds of boats, have a foiling A-Class, and bought a 1979 C&C 36 last which I've really enjoyed.  Has HVAC system which is great here and the helm has a great feel.  I decided helm feel was more important than speed in this category.  For whatever reason, this boat has great balance and people love to steer it.

I had never been a fan of the roller furling jib, but it is really valuable in this kind of boat and makes what often ends up being single handing, with several others aboard hanging out, easy.  

On my boat, the swim platform requires a step over as the transom isn't open, but the boat works great for what we do and is a lot of fun for swimming.  

All of the newer boats like the 34/36 have a larger stern and raised cockpit to allow more room below it.  The one downside I've noticed in this size boat is that with that more modern approach, the main interior gets pushed forward and feels a little smaller.  Two separate staterooms would be handy though.

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1 hour ago, Lost in Translation said:

...  The one downside I've noticed in this size boat is that with that more modern approach, the main interior gets pushed forward and feels a little smaller.  Two separate staterooms would be handy though.

I don't see that as a downside.  The amount of time you spend getting a good night's sleep in a very spacious v-berth or aft cabin is much greater than the amount of time you spend with 6 people sitting around a table in a salon.  Most cruising boats are operating with one couple, or a couple with 1-2 kids.  The main salon needs just enough room for them to be comfortable below on a rainy day.  Most people like to hang outside in the cockpit both in the day and in the evening rather than below - so cockpits need to be large.  Even off-season cruising you'll spend as much time as possible outside until cold pushes you below.

Larger berths mean better air circulation, less feeling of claustrophobia, more storage for your clothes etc. etc.  I think designers that max out on the salon at the expense of the berths are catering to the charter boat market vs. the typical cruiser.

Mind you I also don't get the "full canvas" thing either but I know everyone does it.

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Owned a 34+ for five years or so.  Smallish v-berth.  Great aft cabin.  Had the deep draft model.  I thought it was hard to get her to sail to her rating but that was probably the sails and my shit skill at sailing.  We did multiple Swiftsure races on her and always felt secure.  Finished mid-pack but expected that.

Not sure about build quality in relation to other boats.  All the production boat manufacturers seem to kinda suck at one point or another.  Mine seemed screwed together pretty damn well.

For sure join the owners group.  They are very helpful and friendly.  Hell, I'm still on the mailing list as I like them.

My buddy has a CS 34.  Mine was a little faster but that is a great boat also but not as good looking in my opinion.  

Boat is really a 36 footer but has 34 feet plastered all over her so I took advantage of that.  Hauling out?  34 feet.  Guest moorage?  34 feet.  Hell, regular moorage?  34 feet.  You get the idea.  

Only reason I sold her was I married a gal with two kids and then we had another one.  Was sick and tired of converting the saloon to a bedroom every night.  Got a Wauquiez 42.

DSC_0732.thumb.jpg.c4f774036862d451a57f89b86b8e9451.jpg

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There were three 34s:

  • 34: base boat (more cruiser than racer);
  • 34R: race boat (taller rig, deeper keel); and
  • 34+: cruising interior with the race rig and keel

The 37 had the same assortment.

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Wrong- 34+ base boat with standard keel or wing keel. Full interior. 34XL- Taller rig and slightly different interior. 34R tall rig, spartan interior, open transom, lighter weight, no anchor locker. To confuse things even further you could order the boat with features from the other versions like more interior or a taller rig

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I raced on the 34+ in North Carolina when he was learning to race it 20 years ago. I brought my very experienced C&C crew from our custom C&C 30-2XL. He had a centerboard version built for him by the last version of C&C Canada cuz it's so shallow in the NC sounds. It is a sweet sailer because Rob Ball knew how to design good, fast boats. They are well-built but check the balsa cored hull and deck for moisture, their only achilles heel.

Cheers, Greg

 

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I wouldn't say that any more so than any boat their age. C&C hulls are not known for problems for the most part, but stupid owner tricks can get water into any boat's deck even if the caulking was perfect from the factory.

Also those glued in plexi ports can eventually leak like any boat. The C&C list can give you DIY instructions to replace them if that becomes an issue.

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Don't know how much downwind sailing you plan on doing, but be warned that the 34 downwind cannot be described as "stable" under kite. Raced on one for a number of years and in a good breeze under kite it was not a question of if, but only when was she going to wipeout. She simply has too small a spade to keep her stable downwind in a good breeze. 

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3 hours ago, JK4 said:

Don't know how much downwind sailing you plan on doing, but be warned that the 34 downwind cannot be described as "stable" under kite. Raced on one for a number of years and in a good breeze under kite it was not a question of if, but only when was she going to wipeout. She simply has too small a spade to keep her stable downwind in a good breeze. 

Are you talking the 34 or the 34+? Very different boats.

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On 4/16/2019 at 11:11 AM, Murphness said:

Unfortunately 38' is max LOA, also due to club storage restrictions. The 37+ looks great though.

 

You do realize the 37R is 41 feet long, right?

MS

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8 hours ago, Ishmael said:

Are you talking the 34 or the 34+? Very different boats.

The original 34 is a handful downwind under chute in any air, the 34+ not so much. Cruisers would not be doing this anyway.

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9 hours ago, Mr. Squirrel said:

You do realize the 37R is 41 feet long, right?

MS

"Unfortunately 38' is max LOA..."

I'm aware. Thanks. Meant to convey that despite the restriction, the 37R is a great looking boat, but not an option.

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