MichalD

Newick Summer Salt 26: akas & sockets

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Hey All,

I recently purchased a Newick Summer Salt 26 trimaran. It doesn't fold but it does come apart with the akas (beams) plugging into sockets in both the main hull and the amas (outrigger hulls). The forward akas have their ends in rough shape at the end walls. The main hull sockets seem to have been filled but this created a half wall at the end and a spider web of gaps.

What do you guys think of this structurally?
How would you approach any fixes?

Cheers,

Michal

sparky July 2017-5.jpg

newick_aka_2.small.jpg

newick_aka_1.small.jpg

newick_socket_2.jpg

newick_socket_1.jpg

newick_aka_zoomout.small.jpg

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Cool boat, congratulations.  Looks like Sparky?

http://dicknewickboats.com/outrigger26/

It's a little hard to grasp what we are looking at in these photos?  Two of them appear to show the main hull sockets for the forward beams?  Which end of the beam is this one (below), outboard or inboard?

2 hours ago, Michal Dobrogost said:

newick_aka_1.small.jpg

From the color (and cracks), the filler appears to be low density microballoons?  Soft, not intended for a structural application like this:
https://www.westsystem.com/407-low-density/

Maybe better to use 404 High-Density instead?
https://www.westsystem.com/404-high-density/

Is there movement between the beams and sockets?  What are the issues you want to solve?  More photos?

This appears to be the inboard end of the aft port beam?  (socket)

2011109_10.jpg

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Hey ProaSailor,

Nice sleuthing! Yes the boat is sparky, originally "banana split".

Correct - the picture you sent is the inboard end of the aft port beam socket. The forward main hull sockets are similarly built into a forward bulkhead. The pictures I sent before are of the inboard ends of the forward beams and the main hull sockets from inside. The outboard beam ends are flat while the inboard ones are round (useful for the additional pictures).

I did not see movement of the beams within the sockets although I haven't had the boat out on the water yet. The beams flex quite a bit even just as I was moving around while the boat was on the trailer with amas attached.

I want to make sure that the beams are not deteriorating over time as they flex to the point where they fail under sail. (Whether this is because the inboard beam end crack propagates or because of point loads caused by the "spiderweb" in the socket.)

More beam pics

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Cool boat, Michal. The most interesting photo is looking inside the socket. It seems obvious that the "molded" part of the fit was done by spreading thickened epoxy inside the socket and inserting the waxed beam. It looks like the loads were not spread evenly (maybe especially at the skinny end of the socket) because of the spotty load bearing. This may mean that the way to really fix the problem is to add the needed laminate to the beams and re-cast the sockets. Is there room to work inside the sockets if you wanted to remove the thickened epoxy? Maybe only the butt (skinny) end of the beams need repair and re-casting.

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Ahh, thanks for taking a look Russell. Yes, I think there should be enough room to work on removing the thickened epoxy from inside the socket although it gets pretty tight on the skinny end (maybe 3").

Here's what I was thinking for the butt end of the beams: cleanup the filler, sand down the face and sand a bevel on the face edge. Fiberglass epoxy over the face and bevel and sand back to the original shape. The one unknown is what the inside filler looks like and how much will start crumbling out once I get started on it (and exactly what to replace it with - 404 makes sense to me). I guess I'll know more about that once I get started on it.

Fun fact: the original owner said that the boat was designed to be self righting and the original foam in the beams was meant to help with this somehow - although I never really got the full story on how self righting would work or whether it was abandoned as a design concept. 

What are you thinking for re-casting the sockets? I'm having trouble imaging an approach different from what you described as probably being the original process - thickened epoxy spread into the socket before inserting the waxed beam.

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Russell, is correct, you are in good hands.  You might try using the green wrapping film from Uhaul for a release agent on the male plug ends.  I have had good luck with it with Aluzine epoxy.  It works as the release barrier between the socket and the beam.  I  just molded  similar sockets for my Proa.  Please try a sample layup with your resin/cloth layup before the big one.  Nice boat.  Aloha, Guerdon. 

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I think that maybe the reason only the inboard ends of the beams are showing damage is because of spotty load bearing and because there was not much laminate covering the ends of the beams in the first place. Another option that wouldn't involve removing epoxy from inside the sockets would be to use the router to remove some of the putty and foam from the ends of the beams (say 1/2") deep and glue in round disks of plywood. The beam laminate looks substantial and could be left intact besides sanding the inside edges where the plywood would bond. You would have to lightly glass the plywood, but I think plywood would be good for that kind of load. Re-casting the sockets at the inboard ends should be done, I think and Guerdon's idea of using stretch film may be the right release. This may not be too serious.

Your thoughts Zonker?

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Are these beams hollow tubes or is there an internal I-beam or uncrushable core of some kind to keep them from deforming?  Especially at the ends inside the sockets on the main hull, where the load is highly concentrated?

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I would guess that only the builder knows what's inside the beams. They couldn't have been easy to build and are pretty small in section, so they must be pretty strongly built. A sheer web would certainly be a good idea and maybe one could tell by tapping on them. The boat and the beams are beautiful and look nicely built. It's always easier to work on something nice-looking.

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6 hours ago, Dex Sawash said:

What holds all of that together on a boat like that? 

Tension of the nets.

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Tension of nets - correct. The shroud tension would also have a component squeezing the outriggers together although I don't know how much tension there would be on the lee shroud while under sail. The hydrodynamic forces also have components holding everything together - the beam dives down into the outrigger so the outrigger's buoyancy forces it deeper onto the beam. I have more trouble imagining the forces at the interaction of the beam and main hull. I suppose they're rotational.

Shear Webs & I-Beams - My suspicion is that the laminate is a hollow circular cross section although I agree that it's hard to tell for sure. Some history I dug up on the boat suggests that the original foam got wet and deteriorated at which point the beams were filled with a 2-part expanding foam insulation and this was (maybe) later removed so what's actually there now is somewhat of a mystery. I spent some time thinking about I-Beam construction too. Perhaps the intention was to reduce drag by allowing the outriggers to move through waves free of the main hull? I also researched more structural replacements for a 2-part expanding foam without much luck. When I originally tapped around on the beams they sounded hollow to me without any change on the transition from "inside" to "outside" the main hull socket. With that said, I wasn't specifically looking for a shear web and I'm uncertain what a hollow beam should or shouldn't sound like. They certainly are beautiful - like giant mastodon tusks.

Casting Sockets - Do you have any pictures of what your socket casting guerdon? Are you casting the sockets with thickened epoxy or a composite material or something altogether different? The boat sounds cool - any pics? I'm still trying to figure out what the correct process for casting my sockets should be. I've thought about turning the boat on its side with the sockets up, filling the socket with some straight epoxy (no filler) and casting that way in an attempt to reduce voids. Sounds really impractical though.

Wooden disks - Thanks for the suggestion Russell, this is my current plan. Just taking a look at the inboard end of a beam now it looks like there is some filler in place of the laminate on the outside of the beam (see images attached). The bottom also shows a similar crack on the butt, I guess that top and bottom is where most of the force goes. I may have some more work on this beam.

Stretch film release - are you guys worried about wrinkles or tears as I jam the beam into the socket? Release wax is pretty toxic stuff, right?

I hope to dig into the beams this weekend.

2019-04-22-213146_976x1487_scrot.small.png

2019-04-22-213146_976x1487_scrot_small.png

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You're getting some very high level help at an excellent price.  My feeling, as a guy with a somewhat similar tri that has been pounded pretty hard, is that if it ain't broke it's probably ok.  Go out in bumpy conditions, have somebody else drive and sit inside and watch how things flex and move.  I once saw a carbon ring frame delaminating that way, pretty exciting!  I really like Mr. Brown's plywood idea and a few layers of well-applied carbon here and there usually gives one a warm feeling when the peepee gets rough.

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In all the excitement I forgot to mention, you have an extremely cool boat there, congratulations!

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My guess is the beams are hollow with no shear web.  You might be able to see a faint seam running down the middle of beam, then you have one.  In my dim memory   vacuum/bladder bags were not used yet and a curved mandrel would be pretty exotic tooling for this time.  I am also going to guess she was made with E glass and polyester.  Scratch the laminate if it smells faintly of almonds that means it has styrene in the layup and is polyester, which would be expected for this era.  Happy sailing.

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1 hour ago, mundt said:

In all the excitement I forgot to mention, you have an extremely cool boat there, congratulations!

Yeah, nice boat with the worst name from the marketing sense in multihull history. I think it was originally the Sumersault 26. 

Don't do a sumersault in the doggie poop!

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The one in Ithica also has the below deck tiller linkage. Sparky has an above deck tiller.

Haha, yeah, unfortunate name for a multihull but cheeky. I think Dick Newick had "summer salt 26" originally in his plans.

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Quote

Release wax is pretty toxic stuff, right?

Not at all - unless you are joking. A good carnuba car wax is fine.

I'd use a release film here too. A few layers of wax (well 5 or 6 to be sure) are not that thick. So unless you are very, very sure that the beam tapers in all directions and has no local surface imperfections that could lock in the beam. See sketch (exaggerated imperfection in beam)
image.thumb.png.410d4c954abb6f9df6d8685411803783.png

 

I would also consider a shear web of plywood that would be a tight fit into the beam as deep as the socket.

Coat it with a few coats of epoxy and tap it into place with a hammer.

Put fillets of thickened epoxy on either side of it. Tape a tongue depressor to a stick and load it up with epoxy and reach in that way.

image.png.64703131f6bcfeb44574f3af3f5dc418.png

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Haha, I was not joking but I appreciate the clarification!

Thanks also for the clear explanations and diagrams. Hammering a shear web in would be tricky because the beam tapers from a ~6" diameter at the outboard socket end to a ~3" diameter at the inboard socket wall (see attached picture showing a starboard beam looking through the boat from stern to bow). I would hopefully only open up the 3" end of the beam (left side of the picture).

For those interested there are more pics / vids of the same class boat "nada" here.

beam-fore-aft.small.jpg

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Oh, sorry I only meant a shear web in the socket area, not the whole beam.

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I got into the beam with a chisel and then a router which demystifies some things (eg. cross section, foam fill). The outer wall actually looks like a sandwich with a very hard blue core. Some of that blue core is crumbly. I plan to add the plywood face suggested earlier and also fill the cracks in the blue core with milled glass & epoxy for what it's worth. Progress should be easier now that I have the beams at home.

I also added a picture of the entire beam to give you guys a better sense of what the circumference looks like at different points of the beam. I was left thinking that a fair amount of the force pushing the beam deeper into the main hull socket can be taken by the taper (vs the end face). I wouldn't be surprised if that additional filler in the main hull socket was to prevent the beams from jamming in really tight into the sockets.

small.jpg

small2.jpg

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About how much do the beams weigh? I think it's safe to say that however they were built, it wasn't an easy job. I do wonder what the blue filler is. 

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Hrm, mystery blue core. It felt very hard on my fingernail. The forward beam I'm working on came in at 37lb. The aft beams are slightly shorter.

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Looks like powdered marble dust and or talc and blue chalk to me.  If you scrub a bit with some sandpaper and it smells like baby powder, it's baby powder and straight line blue chalk.  Lavender scented and makes it look like you molested a smurf if you need to grind it.      

Cheap.  Creamy to squeeze into stuff, unlike cotton flock or long strand/ground glass that doesn't like to get pumped into parts.  Talc doesn't compress and explode like straight cabosil thickened resin does.   Pearson used to use the purple chalk and ground marble in fillets and coves... which is a little bit stinkier to grind than talc. 

 

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Whatever that blue stuff is, at 37 pounds they are likely well built beams and the blue stuff may be only at the ends.

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Yeah, I've never seen blue stuff like that.

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Latest update: plywood cut out, sanded to shape, 2 layers of glass put on, entire assembly glued in place with epoxy + milled glass. 

I'm considering putting another layer of glass over the entire face now. I'll have to do a dry fit of the socket after. Any ideas on what you guys would cast with? 

1557711204953.jpeg

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Nice work! Do you think you need to re-cast the sockets? It's a pretty risky task because the tiniest imperfection could make it really hard to remove the beam. Your plywood beam ends will spread the loads out much better than the foam and filler that was there. 

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I'm tempted to leave the sockets as is at least until winter. It should be a good learning experience to see how the reworked beam does over the summer and also if I would do anything differently for the other beams. I'm anxious to get the boat out on the water for the summer at this point as well. 

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I'd use tinted resin for your two layers of additional cloth.  If the diameter gets too thick it's easier to grind with careless abandon if things are different color.  Cloth thickness on a radius does strange things to the overall diameter. 

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