footlong

J Class Weight limits

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Does anyone else think we be OK without weight limits in the J classes?  I mean this isn't pro-racing.  We have to leave a guy home this weekend because we're little older and heavier than we used to be.

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For a local regatta where participation is key, waive the limit. For a national or regional championship, keep the limit.

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No matter the level of racing, it's either competitive or not. If it's competitive, somebody is going to abuse an open weight limit and people will be pissed. If it's not competitive, why bother changing rules? Nobody will give a shit anyways.

Anyways, there's enough room in the weight limits on sprit J boats bigger than the 70 that if the limits were any higher, somebody would end up just being ballast. It seems to me like it's a good idea to limit how many people are brought along just for ballast.

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5 hours ago, fucket said:

No matter the level of racing, it's either competitive or not. If it's competitive, somebody is going to abuse an open weight limit and people will be pissed. If it's not competitive, why bother changing rules? Nobody will give a shit anyways.

Anyways, there's enough room in the weight limits on sprit J boats bigger than the 70 that if the limits were any higher, somebody would end up just being ballast. It seems to me like it's a good idea to limit how many people are brought along just for ballast.

Ballast?  Is that how a lot of people get started in sailing?

Anyway, how about no weight limit but regatta weight has a change limit of 10%

 

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14 hours ago, hhn92 said:

For a local regatta where participation is key, waive the limit. For a national or regional championship, keep the limit.

This seems like the most reasonable approach.

A few years ago we ran hills wrapped in garbage bags to sweat out the last 5 pounds for a national champs. We're young and it was for a bigger event, so we were fine to do it, but if they were enforcing it for a fleet of 8 I would have bounced.

 

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1 hour ago, T.Dirty said:

This seems like the most reasonable approach.

A few years ago we ran hills wrapped in garbage bags to sweat out the last 5 pounds for a national champs. We're young and it was for a bigger event, so we were fine to do it, but if they were enforcing it for a fleet of 8 I would have bounced.

 

Drove from Winter Haven to Tampa with sweats and foulies on with the heat on high one time to make weight for the J24 Midwinters. Then found-out we were 10-15 lbs. light...

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12 hours ago, fucket said:

No matter the level of racing, it's either competitive or not. If it's competitive, somebody is going to abuse an open weight limit and people will be pissed. If it's not competitive, why bother changing rules? Nobody will give a shit anyways.

Anyways, there's enough room in the weight limits on sprit J boats bigger than the 70 that if the limits were any higher, somebody would end up just being ballast. It seems to me like it's a good idea to limit how many people are brought along just for ballast.

What fucker said, although I would disagree there is enough room. In the 109 class it's tough to stay in limits. We had almost half the J109 fleet leave one crew behind at BIRW 2 years ago because the scales were "unkind" while many of us allowed "ballast ??" within a few lbs of our  limits. Many skinny people on my crew, and we had to cut one person. Weight limits are a must  but would much rather take a penalty of some kind (add to total points in regatta?) then leave crew behind that took a week off vacation to be with us.

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7 minutes ago, b393capt said:

What fucker said, although I would disagree there is enough room. In the 109 class it's tough to stay in limits. We had almost half the J109 fleet leave one crew behind at BIRW 2 years ago because the scales were "unkind" while many of us allowed "ballast ??" within a few lbs of our  limits. Many skinny people on my crew, and we had to cut one person. Weight limits are a must  but would much rather take a penalty of some kind (add to total points in regatta?) then leave crew behind that took a week off vacation to be with us.

Why are they a must?  Why not just have to sail with the same weight (within a certain percentage) for the whole regatta.  Leaving crew at the dock, like we're doing this week is ridiculous. Only skinny people can sail? 

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2 hours ago, footlong said:

Why are they a must?  Why not just have to sail with the same weight (within a certain percentage) for the whole regatta.  Leaving crew at the dock, like we're doing this week is ridiculous. Only skinny people can sail?  

I agree that it's ridiculous to leave crew on the dock, but that's more in the sense of you being / having a shit skipper who can't manage to do math and figure out who you can fit within the established rules of the particular sport that you play.

You need weight limits because more weight is a strict advantage in all but the lightest of breeze and no limits quickly turns into a penalty for boats that don't pack their rails full of football player-sized ballast.

 

 

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J/109 Class rules have two rules that may be invoked.  There is a weight limited version and a crew limited version.  The original rules must have been developed by a fat bastard on the helm because helmsman weight is not included.  I think the dual approach works but would be happy if the limit on total people on the boat was the limit.  We use 8 people when racing under rule 6.2 and usually have a few pounds to spare - except at the 2016 NAs when I had to leave one person on the dock due to being overweight.  

6.1 For J/109 Class or fleet sanctioned events, the crew of each boat shall be limited to the driver plus six crew members. To encourage participation, including junior sailors, a seventh “lightweight person” may be added without penalty, provided that person’s weight does not exceed 60 kilos (132 lbs.).

6.2 By vote of the Executive Board, a Championship event may be designated to be a “weight limited” event. The Notice of Race for such events shall state that Rule 6.2 applies, and Rule 6.1 does not apply. Total weight of crew (excluding the driver) in swimming apparel shall not exceed 550 kilos (1213 pounds).

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Im in favor of always going  limit to x number of crew or weight limit.  so you can have 4 fat asses or 8 people under x lbs 

 

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The J/70 class seems be doing pretty well with NO weight limit. The advantage of extra weight upwind is offset by the disadvantage of the extra weight downwind. The health of the sport dictates that no one should be left at the dock period.

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54 minutes ago, Tetonsail said:

The J/70 class seems be doing pretty well with NO weight limit. The advantage of extra weight upwind is offset by the disadvantage of the extra weight downwind. The health of the sport dictates that no one should be left at the dock period.

I wish the 105 class would do the same.  

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Not me. Learn to sail with five, get a junior sailor into keelboat racing or lose some fucking weight.

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10 hours ago, fucket said:

Not me. Learn to sail with five, get a junior sailor into keelboat racing or lose some fucking weight.

Not that easy. Wait till you get older or have a serious injury.

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14 hours ago, Tetonsail said:

The J/70 class seems be doing pretty well with NO weight limit. The advantage of extra weight upwind is offset by the disadvantage of the extra weight downwind. The health of the sport dictates that no one should be left at the dock period.

On the J/70, since only two crew are allowed to hike, the human ballast component is minimized.

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16 hours ago, Tetonsail said:

The J/70 class seems be doing pretty well with NO weight limit. The advantage of extra weight upwind is offset by the disadvantage of the extra weight downwind. The health of the sport dictates that no one should be left at the dock period.

You're right about that, but I feel like this is amplified because it's a planing boat with an asym and you want it to pop up quickly. A different example would be the J22- add an extra 100 pounds to hike the boat flat in breeze and holding a lane becomes much easier. Downwind they just pop into the cabin and the extra effect of the weight is diminished.

I don't want to leave friends at the dock, but I also hate the idea of serious competitors manipulating the rules (or lack of) to blow me even further out of the water.

Can't speak to the larger J boats!

 

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On 4/25/2019 at 1:12 PM, ~HHN92~ said:

Drove from Winter Haven to Tampa with sweats and foulies on with the heat on high one time to make weight for the J24 Midwinters. Then found-out we were 10-15 lbs. light...

That's because by the time you got there you were half the size

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7 hours ago, jesposito said:

That's because by the time you got there you were half the size

No, about 3/4's...

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On 4/25/2019 at 7:41 PM, Tetonsail said:

The J/70 class seems be doing pretty well with NO weight limit. The advantage of extra weight upwind is offset by the disadvantage of the extra weight downwind. The health of the sport dictates that no one should be left at the dock period.

We have adopted the higher weight class limit for local regattas and racing.  Like mentioned above, there is no advantage downhill and in the light stuff.  Our crew needs to shed a few lb's but with this rule instituted it really does not allow a significant advantage.  Maybe meat on the rail upwind, but our guys hike like shit anyway.

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Weight limits help the lighter guys, I sail with a junior J/24 crew and we with six people total we are 60-70 lbs underweight. I sailed J70s with a light crew and we couldn't keep it together upwind when it got windy. I feel sorry for crew members who get left on the dock because of weight limits but it keeps things fair.

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On 4/24/2019 at 9:13 PM, hhn92 said:

For a local regatta where participation is key, waive the limit. For a national or regional championship, keep the limit.

This, however I feel the pain of the OP.. the same crew that I raced with 9-10 years ago that would make weight limit would now be about 150 lbs over. a lot of it's mine :ph34r:

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What the J35 class did was limit to 9 bodies.  If you want to go over that you have to hit the weight limit of 1650.  So if you are sailing with kids or hard bodies you can have more than 9 but don't have to kick your crew off the boat because they have put on a few pounds in their later years.   So far it has worked out well.

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8 hours ago, lartaunt said:

What the J35 class did was limit to 9 bodies.  If you want to go over that you have to hit the weight limit of 1650.  So if you are sailing with kids or hard bodies you can have more than 9 but don't have to kick your crew off the boat because they have put on a few pounds in their later years.   So far it has worked out well.

Same size as a J105 (close anyway) and the 35 can carry 605 lbs more.  

Yes I realize you need a few more guys with a spin pole.  

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It's an obstacle course on a J35 with that many bodies, but if everyone has a job...it works.  Someone has to trim the runners!  

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2 hours ago, proOC said:

It's an obstacle course on a J35 with that many bodies, but if everyone has a job...it works.  Someone has to trim the runners!  

we ran the checks to cabin top winches so only real crucial time sensitive part of that was in the release. the rig aint going anywhere if the new check isn't on ... I've gone entire seasons without using the checkstays at all.

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16 minutes ago, Bump-n-Grind said:

we ran the checks to cabin top winches so only real crucial time sensitive part of that was in the release. the rig aint going anywhere if the new check isn't on ... I've gone entire seasons without using the checkstays at all.

We've had 18 on a Thursday night once, yeah it was a touch crowded so you had to take the tacks and gybes a little slow. We typically don't use the checks except when we go out in the Gulf and expect breeze and wave/chop action. The bay is typically small chop and not that much breeze, if we run in to some in the lower part off St. Pete we just tough it out most times.

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3 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

We've had 18 on a Thursday night once, yeah it was a touch crowded so you had to take the tacks and gybes a little slow. We typically don't use the checks except when we go out in the Gulf and expect breeze and wave/chop action. The bay is typically small chop and not that much breeze, if we run in to some in the lower part off St. Pete we just tough it out most times.

18 is approaching clown car status!!

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Makes me remember, which mind you is still being splashed, Bozo's Circus owned by the Metcalf's.  They just gutted the boat and re skinned the whole freeboard.  

Best t shirt for boat crew ever.  Took the Bozo the clown and placed one on every position, even up the mast and hanging on the bow.  Wish I had a pic of that!  They drove it back from the nationals on the east coast and had a fire that scorched the bow.  Next year,...they had flames painted on the pointy end.

 

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On ‎5‎/‎2‎/‎2019 at 7:48 PM, footlong said:

Same size as a J105 (close anyway) and the 35 can carry 605 lbs more.  

Yes I realize you need a few more guys with a spin pole.  

Well a J35 is 3000 lbs (roughly 40%) heavier than a J105  which I think has a bit to do with that

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