Veeger

Barge much? (FP)

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Wow, Mr. Frog's Wild Ride on the TP, amazing to see a 52 footer yanked around like that, hope everyone was holding on!

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Big boats in smaller-boat fleets are prone to do that - in our fleet as well. 

It's unnecessary, dangerous and obnoxious 

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On 4/28/2019 at 9:47 AM, Parma said:

Mystery solved!: if you listen closely, and I mean you really have to strain to hear it, you can barely make out scallawag calling "mast abeam"

You gotta be kidding...  :ph34r:

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21 hours ago, us7070 said:

if i were in a charitable mood.., i might be tempted to agree..., except that the contact w the 52 occurred when they were breaking another rule.., by taking room to which they were not entitled...

so.., no.., they do not get a pass.

Ther really really dumb part about this and it has probably been said above but it bears repeating, is that there were what, 4 other boats easily 40 ft shorter than Scallywag in that start right?? it would have taken what, maybe 30 sec to just duck everyone??  And if you really wanted to put an explanation point on it, just gas them for the next couple hundred yards where your rig is in play as you leave them in the dust...  Would have easily made up for whatever negligible gain they would have had by barging in the first place.  

 

Watching the vids, I gotta hand it to the TP52 guys for handling it with style.  Everyone seemed to know what was up and did their job.  No one went nutz and even when they were going sideways, everyone did the right thing.  Gold star to them...   

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19 hours ago, Couta said:

Don, this isn't any weekend warrior barging at the start of a "wednesday wonder"...these are highly paid sailing professionals who wilfully put others at risk.....apologies don't cut it. Sanctions are required...but sadly won't happen

Come on! At least he didn't state that the rule he broke "wasn't mandatory" ...

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8 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

And I would imagine it spoiled the TP's day's racing too don't you think?

As stated upthread..  The 52 won the day.  

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1 hour ago, shaggy said:

As stated upthread..  The 52 won the day.  

SS retracted the comment 4 posts after the one you quoted. 

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2 hours ago, shaggy said:

Ther really really dumb part about this and it has probably been said above but it bears repeating, is that there were what, 4 other boats easily 40 ft shorter than Scallywag in that start right?? it would have taken what, maybe 30 sec to just duck everyone?? 

Well, yes, but...

The counter-argument is how long before the start would they have hade to make the decision to go below everyone? From the start of the video available, they were pinned by the boats to leeward, and could not have borne away even if they wanted to. I'm therefore guessing that they would have had to have decided on that option between 3 and 5 mins before the start.

I confess that my experience driving 100' maxis is limited, but I've driven bigger and slower-reacting things and know that there are times that once one is committed, one is commited, and they were most likely trying to get the best outcome from the situation.

Note I am not excusing their actions: whilst not trivial by any means, bailing out was the option that they should have taken - a fact I'm sure they'd readily admit. However, to say "well, they should have just gone helm down and passed astern" seems a slightly simplistic analysis.

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20 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Maybe you not knowing the rules hastened the end of your racing career?  Just wondering?  

Possibly. There's a learning curve-- I might have been at the 60-80th percentile in being one of those able to say I know it all well.  But I know/knew enough to stay out of trouble, generally not piss off other competitors and to not pull crap like this case.  Maybe terms like barging and overtaking are outdated or do not apply but for sure the concept was/is very clear.  If in doubt, I didn't push things and kept out of trouble.  I will concede too, that I was frequently amazed and appalled at much of what I saw.  It was often either competitor ignorance or ego-- there was little difference.   And , no, I wouldn't be knowledgeable enough to be rendering judgement in the protest room.  I suspect I'm not alone in this...

Mostly, I don't have the budget/patience for playing bumper cars, fixing fiberglass, paint, lifelines, toerails or covering someone's medical bills as a result of  'racing'.  

Didn't want you to wonder any longer.... ;)

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2 hours ago, shaggy said:

As stated upthread..  The 52 won the day.  

Wind instruments are highly over-rated.  

 

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10 hours ago, theworm13 said:

SS...I believe there is (or was in older rule sets) about this exact situation.  Where a boat "artificially" held their sail against the natural flow and claimed stbd rights.  I believe this was done with a preventer line and the vang, and that it was not just sailing by the lee but physically preventing the sail from moving.  My recollection of this was that this method was considered illegal in achieving rights, and that the boat who was claiming to be on starboard was found to be on port.  The reasoning was simple, that while the mainsail position defines the tack, the main cannot be artificially positioned against the natural lie of the sail.  Other boats cannot expect this and anticipate the "actual" point of sail, creating a situation where boats cannot keep clear of the other boat.  Essentially...you could get into a position where you cannot get out of the way of the boat who is now claiming rights over you.

Again, if I remember correctly, the reasoning was that this broke the fairness rule and that was the primary reason that this was illegal.

They specifically stated that it was ok to hold the boom to "prevent" gybing early, or to sail deep by the lee.  Those were valid tactical and sailing methods.  But to physically restrain the main well past this position was deemed to be a problem.

 

Mmm - I agree it wouldn't be right but I cannot think of a call or case in the case book. I am sure we have all stopped a gybe with a hand especially in a dinghy. I did it inadvertently with my teeth once when I was a kid :-(  - shit that hurt and teaches you to duck and wasn't pretty but to be able to do that you can't be too much by the lee (or on too big a boat) or you wouldn't be able to hold it.

I would also imagine it could be quite dangerous to the boat with the preventer in any sort of real blow.

When I get a chance I am going to go look.

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58 minutes ago, Veeger said:

Possibly. There's a learning curve-- I might have been at the 60-80th percentile in being one of those able to say I know it all well.  But I know/knew enough to stay out of trouble, generally not piss off other competitors and to not pull crap like this case.  Maybe terms like barging and overtaking are outdated or do not apply but for sure the concept was/is very clear.  If in doubt, I didn't push things and kept out of trouble.  I will concede too, that I was frequently amazed and appalled at much of what I saw.  It was often either competitor ignorance or ego-- there was little difference.   And , no, I wouldn't be knowledgeable enough to be rendering judgement in the protest room.  I suspect I'm not alone in this...

Mostly, I don't have the budget/patience for playing bumper cars, fixing fiberglass, paint, lifelines, toerails or covering someone's medical bills as a result of  'racing'.  

Didn't want you to wonder any longer.... ;)

Thank you.  I was wracked with uncertainty.  :rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, DFL1010 said:

Well, yes, but...

The counter-argument is how long before the start would they have hade to make the decision to go below everyone? From the start of the video available, they were pinned by the boats to leeward, and could not have borne away even if they wanted to. I'm therefore guessing that they would have had to have decided on that option between 3 and 5 mins before the start.

I confess that my experience driving 100' maxis is limited, but I've driven bigger and slower-reacting things and know that there are times that once one is committed, one is commited, and they were most likely trying to get the best outcome from the situation.

Note I am not excusing their actions: whilst not trivial by any means, bailing out was the option that they should have taken - a fact I'm sure they'd readily admit. However, to say "well, they should have just gone helm down and passed astern" seems a slightly simplistic analysis.

Um yea, they should have decided, days, no weeks, no whenever they saw the class splits to stay the hell out of the way.  They knew they were gonna be the biggest baddest mofo out there, christ, when the bought the boat.  So there should be no reason to get into that situation in the first place.  I really wish I had enough $$ to fuck around with other peoples shit that way.  Imagine if they t-boned the tp and some guy got fucked by being in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Its pretty much akin of me, going balls out on the start line in my 20 with a couple of Opties/El torrows/whatever, you just avoid em and run your race.  And shit,  there wasn't even a committee boat.  I mean, talk about bail out opportunities...  sheesh.

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9 hours ago, JohnMB said:

I'm still clearly not explaining myself well enough. I understand the obligations and how the rule works.

I did not like your misuse of the term definition, when applied to something that wasn't a definition.

This example is perfect in this context. Personally I think any time you have to say 'according to the rules' you have done X, you are immediately implying that according to the common use of the term you have not. I do like the shorthand of 'completed your tack' but there are situations where it can be confusing.

I prefer:

-while tacking you have to keep clear once you pass head to wind until you reach a close hauled course

to:

-while tacking you have to keep clear, and under the rules you are tacking from when you pass head to wind until you reach a close hauled course.

To me the first is less likely to provoke confusion in the 'slack sheets' situation for example, because you separate the concept of 'tacking' which we all understand in a certain way, with the obligations under the rules, which have well defined start and end points.... (which don't actually coincide with the start and end of the tack when we teach people to tack. )

When discussing with people who know the rules the shorthand is effective and clear, but when people don't understand the rules it can lead to confusion.

 

Well if you can think of another definition of a definition then I shall use that word to define a definition instead of the word definition but by definition, when a boat has reached a close hauled course then Rule 13 defines that that that boat has completed their tack.

In my defence I refer to the "Introduction" of the Racing Rules of Sailing where it states that "Other words and terms are used in the sense ordinarily understood in nautical or general use." So, by definition, no misuse as you say.

So as the word definition is generally used to define a word or situation it can be used when defining a situation, can it not?

In my defence if one's knowledge of the Rules Book was sufficient that one knew when "definition" was being used to highlight a definition that was a definition in the Definitions section of the Rule Book and when it was just being used to define a different situation, then, by definition there wouldn't be a problem.

Perhaps if we used Definition with an upper case "D" if it was an RRS Definition and definition with a lower case "d" if it was only meant to be from 'general use' it may help.

Sorry, I can't think of any more ways I can include definition in a post.

Perhaps we should suggest a new 'Case' for the Case Book.

And just razzing with you by the way    

SS

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Last year, we were part of a similar scenario that ended with no damage or injuries.

We were a 40 foot boat in a fleet of 50's. On the layline to win the RC boat, a certain 52 footer "barged" without responding to our "UP" hails. When we realized it was too late for them to bail, we went slack-sheet and turned down behind the boat to leeward. This gave the 52 enough room to squeeze in. As we reached for the protest flag, they said "sorry, we've got you", and did their penalty turns immediately after the start. Of course, this meant we sucked bad air for the first leg and never stood a chance.

My point is that perhaps the biggest, fastest boat in the fleet suffers from Ego + Drastic BSP Difference, making it difficult to judge TSD. There was no ill-will, they just truly thought they could make it until there was no option to bail.

I'm not saying this justifies the error, but maybe we should check our own ego when we're the biggest, fastest boat in the fleet.

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27 minutes ago, Blizzard said:

My point is that perhaps the biggest, fastest boat in the fleet suffers from Ego + Drastic BSP Difference, making it difficult to judge TSD. There was no ill-will, they just truly thought they could make it until there was no option to bail.

.. but definitely not in this case -- there's no start boat to avoid, just a mark.   They could have bailed at any time.

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6 hours ago, DFL1010 said:

Well, yes, but...

The counter-argument is how long before the start would they have hade to make the decision to go below everyone? From the start of the video available, they were pinned by the boats to leeward, and could not have borne away even if they wanted to. I'm therefore guessing that they would have had to have decided on that option between 3 and 5 mins before the start.

I confess that my experience driving 100' maxis is limited, but I've driven bigger and slower-reacting things and know that there are times that once one is committed, one is commited, and they were most likely trying to get the best outcome from the situation.

Note I am not excusing their actions: whilst not trivial by any means, bailing out was the option that they should have taken - a fact I'm sure they'd readily admit. However, to say "well, they should have just gone helm down and passed astern" seems a slightly simplistic analysis.

Luff and drop back, or tack around. Not that complicated.

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On 4/28/2019 at 2:33 PM, fastyacht said:

Rubbin is racin.

In big boats, rubbin can be killing.

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The Scallywag barging fuck up is now also on YouTube. It can be played in slow motion if you want to have a closer look.

 

Regrettably no YouTube that I can find of the other one, of the start only from Shirley Heights. Only on Facebook AFAIK. Here the link again, for the AD ppl.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=294278558173289&id=192114584341

 

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7 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

.. but definitely not in this case -- there's no start boat to avoid, just a mark.   They could have bailed at any time.

All so unnecessary..."all," inluding local ego-trips.

As another Anarchist suggests, one boat did not belong...

Pic was ripped from this site, say much about us...and too many sailors air-head sailors.

FaveOpti.jpg

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I'm not sure if you are trying to say the FS is too close, but you can't know that since camera lenses foreshorten distances.

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12 minutes ago, Curious said:

I'm not sure if you are trying to say the FS is too close, but you can't know that since camera lenses foreshorten distances.

The compression was noted, as was the swabbie in 18764 Optie.

I think a lot of us do likewise...often, regardless of venue, don't you?

Am sure the choas proceeded a second hence...What a fat-head...

On 4/28/2019 at 5:27 PM, Rushman said:

Wild Oats usually starts the S2H at the pin, away from the clusterfuck at the committee boat... Not always the best end but it is safer for everyone.

Oui, exactament!...

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

All so unnecessary..."all," inluding local ego-trips.

As another Anarchist suggests, one boat did not belong...

Pic was ripped from this site, say much about us...and too many sailors air-head sailors.

FaveOpti.jpg

I wish you'd speak intelligible English.

What are you trying to say here?

In that shot, I'd put blame on the leeward Optis for not giving 18764 room, if there was an issue with the keelboat (which, as above, is hard to tell).

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1 hour ago, BobBill said:

The compression was noted, as was the swabbie in 18764 Optie.

I think a lot of us do likewise...often, regardless of venue, don't you?

Am sure the choas proceeded a second hence...What a fat-head...

Oui, exactament!...

Lens compression (OK, it's not the right description but it's common) is the most likely explanation, and unless you have other pics you have probably no idea how far the FS was actually away from the Optis.

https://media.giphy.com/media/l2JJu55Y2LSvkbBqo/giphy.gif

The kid in the Opti looks as if they are calmly flicking their fringe from their face. The crew on the FS is looking chilled. The skipper seems to be looking the right way. The FS skipper, in case you did not notice, is also on starboard which means that under the RRS and maritime law, he is SUPPOSED to hold his course. There may well be heaps of space and probably is. 

So please answer a straight question - are you accusing the skipper of the FS of being a "fat head", probably causing chaos and being unseamanlike, based on that one picture?

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/\

The last two clubs I've sailed at have both had boats damaged (one of them a big boat, written off) by boats with right of way who decided to ignore the RRS and Colregs prescriptions that they maintain course for as long as possible. Of course, that doesn't mean we don't luff for Opti kids or waive a port tacker through, but it does mean that BB should'nt fling shit at some poor FS skipper who appears to be doing nothing wrong and who seems to be doing what the RRS and Colregs tell him to do.

 

 

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I do wonder how many FS (or other keelboats) were behind that one, .. if there are 20 following would that make any difference..?

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1 hour ago, Laser1 said:

Barge much.jpg

+1.

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"C", I have little doubt the Scot helmsman cleared the group, but not the point, which am fairly sure most attending this thread "fetched." 

 

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2 minutes ago, BobBill said:

"C", I have little doubt the Scot helmsman cleared the group, but not the point, which am fairly sure most attending this thread "fetched." 

 

You can not tell anything from that photo.., and no judgement about whether the FS sailor's actions were appropriate is justified.

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"U" think? Not gonna do it, but after some calculations, exact numbers might be afforded, but not the point, is it?

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After reading this thread and watching the videos I think they were, as has been suggested, attempting a Vanderbuilt start. What they pulled off instead was a Scallywag start. 

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Posted (edited)

Despite the incident Zingara obviously went on to win the round the island race and they were second in CSA1 on the first day of sailing week the following day.  However, they were DNC for both of yesterday's races and again today. 

Does anyone know if they had other problems or whether they are suffering from complications following the Scally incident? 

https://www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=4734

Edited by JMore
added link

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On 4/29/2019 at 4:53 AM, Alcatraz5768 said:

Jesus, tough crowd. I've been there, and squeezed out of it, and bailed out, and hit the committee boat. All fuck ups, all taken responsibility for, all part of racing. He's apologised and taken responsibility, seems fair enough to me. 

I've seen enough runner-snagging-and-dismasting-the-boat-to-leeward incidents to believe that scallawag did not intend to snag the TPs mast but the rest of it was absolutely intentional with no accident or misjudging about it: scallawag knew exactly what they were doing and were simply hoping for the best expense free outcome.

But there were guys hiking on the rail of the TP.......scallawag had to see them.

So is an apology for intentionally endangering them acceptable? I don't think you mean that. If it had been accidental I might agree with you but this was an intentional act.

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1 hour ago, JMore said:

Despite the incident Zingara obviously went on to win the round the island race and they were second in CSA1 on the first day of sailing week the following day.  However, they were DNC for both of yesterday's races and again today. 

Does anyone know if they had other problems or whether they are suffering from complications following the Scally incident? 

https://www.yachtscoring.com/event_results_cumulative.cfm?eID=4734

Switched horses now racing Pogo 12.50 Hermes.

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15 hours ago, Blizzard said:

There was no ill-will, they just truly thought they could make it until there was no option to bail.

not like there was a committee boat to run over or get pinned into.  just a 3' diameter rubber ball.   what's that maybe a 1/2 turn of the wheel.

Skipper:  "sorry guys looks like Conviction is going to protect the right hand side of the line,  we can't make it in.  Lets take the mark to port...Prepare to tack, first round is on me" 

not like conviction had anywhere to go with two other boats underneath her she would have had to really bear away and face being protested by everyone else. or worse yet get tangled up with the other boats while scallywag sailed through...

 

 

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On 4/28/2019 at 5:28 PM, Bill E Goat said:

From their Facebook page comments

image.png.379bfcc6b0e3c506ddcc857dc1ba6457.png

 

On 4/28/2019 at 6:04 PM, Couta said:

Don, this isn't any weekend warrior barging at the start of a "wednesday wonder"...these are highly paid sailing professionals who wilfully put others at risk.....apologies don't cut it. Sanctions are required...but sadly won't happen

I'd like it if sanctions also required a remedial grammar school English lesson outlining the meanings of 'there, their and they're'. :lol:

 

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20 minutes ago, Skipper Kenny said:

 

I'd like it if sanctions also required a remedial grammar school English lesson outlining the meanings of 'there, their and they're'. :lol:

 

“Vendictivness”?

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57 minutes ago, Skipper Kenny said:

 

I'd like it if sanctions also required a remedial grammar school English lesson outlining the meanings of 'there, their and they're'. :lol:

 

Yay, the grammar nazi has arrived. Please feel free to Fuck off. 

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46 minutes ago, mad said:

Yay, the grammar nazi has arrived. Please feel free to Fuck off. 

Now that's vendictive!

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56 minutes ago, mad said:

Yay, the grammar nazi has arrived. Please feel free to Fuck off. 

Well, apparently our grammar "advisor" is a touch "vendictive". 

I gave him a sporty little downvote for his supercilious pedantry and apparently he's sought out other posts of mine to hand out reciprocal downvote honoraria.

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5 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Well, apparently our grammar "advisor" is a touch "vendictive". 

I gave him a sporty little downvote for his supercilious pedantry and apparently he's sought out other posts of mine to hand out reciprocal downvote honoraria.

It’s always nice to see the kids running round having fun. 

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1 hour ago, mad said:

Yay, the grammar nazi has arrived. Please feel free to Fuck off. 

To be fair, facebook has a spell check so you have to be a special kind of dumb to have a mistake. Though "mistakes" seem unavoidable for witty cue rimshot.

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9 hours ago, The Q said:

I do wonder how many FS (or other keelboats) were behind that one, .. if there are 20 following would that make any difference..?

Point of information. The Flying Scot is a big dinghy. I most certainly would not call it a keelboat.

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43 minutes ago, bodega87 said:

To be fair, facebook has a spell check so you have to be a special kind of dumb to have a mistake. Though "mistakes" seem unavoidable for witty cue rimshot.

Ever heard of autocorrect?

Facebook also has a build in intelligent test, anyone with more than 5 friends becomes automatically a member of the double digit club.

 

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Quote

On 4/29/2019 at 10:17 AM, JohnMB said:
I did not like your misuse of the term definition, when applied to something that wasn't a definition.

Quote

ShanghaiSailor said: "Well if you can think of another definition of a definition then I shall use that word to define a definition instead of the word definition but by definition, when a boat has reached a close hauled course then Rule 13 defines that ...."

 

Quote

 

 1 hour ago, Left Shift said:
... I gave him a sporty little downvote for his supercilious pedantry and apparently he's sought out other posts of mine to hand out reciprocal downvote honoraria.

 

 

And we don't even have to pay for all this entertainment?

 

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5 hours ago, jerseyguy said:

“Vendictivness”?

Selling Nastiness?

 

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11 hours ago, BobBill said:

"U" think? Not gonna do it, but after some calculations, exact numbers might be afforded, but not the point, is it?

Yes, it is the point. You basically accused someone of being an ego-tripping air-head who caused chaos among kids when there was fuck-all evidence on your side, as several people have noted. That is a low act on your part.

You should change your tag to "be harmful! Bugger them all! Try to bring them down"  because that is the way you have behaved to the FS skipper. 

 

PS - does anyone know where the pic came from? It would be interesting to see if there were other shots. BB must know, because no reasonable person would abuse a skipper like he does without at least seeing if there was any more information to be had.

 

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1 hour ago, Curious said:

no reasonable person

Therein lies the problem.

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3 hours ago, Curious said:

Yes, it is the point. You basically accused someone of being an ego-tripping air-head who caused chaos among kids when there was fuck-all evidence on your side, as several people have noted. That is a low act on your part.

You should change your tag to "be harmful! Bugger them all! Try to bring them down"  because that is the way you have behaved to the FS skipper. 

 

PS - does anyone know where the pic came from? It would be interesting to see if there were other shots. BB must know, because no reasonable person would abuse a skipper like he does without at least seeing if there was any more information to be had.

 

Haha! This is SA not SB.

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7 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Point of information. The Flying Scot is a big dinghy. I most certainly would not call it a keelboat.

Thank you for the information It's not a class I know, we call any open boat with a fixed keel  a keel boat, to distinguish them from Yachts which have a cabin. From the Picture against the Oppies it looked big enough to be a small keelboat and in the originators of the picture first text it mentioned keelboats. I see now, having gone and had a look at the class rules it is indeed a dinghy with a centreboard..

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13 hours ago, other said:

Switched horses now racing Pogo 12.50 Hermes.

But clearly the TP52 is fooked for them to switch to the Pogo on the third day of the regatta.  Assuming it was the damage from the Scally incident that stopped them racing the TP after just one race of the regatta (they were 2nd).

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9 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Point of information. The Flying Scot is a big dinghy. I most certainly would not call it a keelboat. 

a 19 footer at > 350kg with a weighted centerboard... yeh, whatever.

scot-stability.jpg

Next you'll be calling it a skiff.

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11 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

a 19 footer at > 350kg with a weighted centerboard... yeh, whatever.

scot-stability.jpg

Next you'll be calling it a skiff.

No, I'll call it what it is. What would you call it? Sheesh

Actually still a pretty popular class in North America and a clone of it helped kick start one design racing in East Central China

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

No, I'll call it what it is. What would you call it? Sheesh

Actually still a pretty popular class in North America and a clone of it helped kick start one design racing in East Central China

I'd call it a daysailer / trailer-sailer. 

Popularity doesn't come into it.

 

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3 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:

I'd call it a daysailer / trailer-sailer. 

Popularity doesn't come into it.

 

You clearly know your boats - NOT!

The class is actively raced in the USA, been around for 60 some years and it appears that people are still buying them so that has to say something. 

Not everyone has the skill, the finances or the even the desire to race something 'sportier, bigger or faster. If you start to demean the boat then by definition you demean the people that sail them and enjoy doing so.

She wouldn't be my choice of boat but I know several very fine people who own them and enjoy sailing them.

Be careful of the people you step on, on the way up because you might just meet them again on the way back down.

So what do you sail or own yourself Duncan?

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53 minutes ago, shanghaisailor said:

You clearly know your boats - NOT!

The class is actively raced in the USA, been around for 60 some years and it appears that people are still buying them so that has to say something. 

Not everyone has the skill, the finances or the even the desire to race something 'sportier, bigger or faster. If you start to demean the boat then by definition you demean the people that sail them and enjoy doing so.

She wouldn't be my choice of boat but I know several very fine people who own them and enjoy sailing them.

Be careful of the people you step on, on the way up because you might just meet them again on the way back down.

So what do you sail or own yourself Duncan?

In my book...

Dinghy is launched from a beach by dolly or could carried by less than 3 people

350kg is not a dinghy

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12 hours ago, shanghaisailor said:

Point of information. The Flying Scot is a big dinghy. I most certainly would not call it a keelboat.

I figure it was a typo, but your observation got me digging for item that nails Douglass rig as a scow...yeah I know...just rhetorical...would not want to hijack this flotsam...

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1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

You clearly know your boats - NOT!

The class is actively raced in the USA, been around for 60 some years and it appears that people are still buying them so that has to say something. 

Not everyone has the skill, the finances or the even the desire to race something 'sportier, bigger or faster. If you start to demean the boat then by definition you demean the people that sail them and enjoy doing so.

She wouldn't be my choice of boat but I know several very fine people who own them and enjoy sailing them.

Be careful of the people you step on, on the way up because you might just meet them again on the way back down.

So what do you sail or own yourself Duncan?

Geez - who pissed in your cornflakes?

None of your little mouth-dribble has anything to do with the point -- a 350kg daysailor is not a dinghy.

 

 

ps: I see you're from SE Asia -- are you a sock who'll ask me for moonlight walks?  You seem to have the same demeanour.

 

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8 minutes ago, duncan (the other one) said:
1 hour ago, shanghaisailor said:

You clearly know your boats - NOT!

The class is actively raced in the USA, been around for 60 some years and it appears that people are still buying them so that has to say something. 

Not everyone has the skill, the finances or the even the desire to race something 'sportier, bigger or faster. If you start to demean the boat then by definition you demean the people that sail them and enjoy doing so.

She wouldn't be my choice of boat but I know several very fine people who own them and enjoy sailing them.

Be careful of the people you step on, on the way up because you might just meet them again on the way back down.

So what do you sail or own yourself Duncan?

Geez - who pissed in your cornflakes?

None of your little mouth-dribble has anything to do with the point -- a 350kg daysailor is not a dinghy.

 

 

ps: I see you're from SE Asia -- are you a sock who'll ask me for moonlight walks?  You seem to have the same demeanour.

Could someone fetch the beers please? I have the popcorn a-popping.

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Beers..Popcorn??..That was long ago... this thread is already at the cusp of a "RRS Soft 5" discussion. BTW "Soft 6" is not for family viewing.

giphy_(2).gif

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I am so confused! 

Time for coffee or a shot.

It rains here; need to stow me drawings (my wee boat) and relax, how bout y'all?

 

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4 hours ago, JMore said:

But clearly the TP52 is fooked for them to switch to the Pogo on the third day of the regatta.  Assuming it was the damage from the Scally incident that stopped them racing the TP after just one race of the regatta (they were 2nd).

How many campaigns bring a spare boat with them? 

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Mad the TP was a charter campaign...charter downsize that's all using what's locally available on tap.

This while they sort how much money for fixing the TP (it now seems the thing holding up the Windex might be fucked) they get from holding Witty hostage.

However I do detect Witty blinking in Morse code saying WOXI's AIS wasn't on in the S2H and if someone stumps up the money and he is released will say that. The 100' world have no shame.

 

kLEu4Lo.gif

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Jack, never take a break with a dude astride a miniature unicorn...smiling.

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6 hours ago, JMore said:

But clearly the TP52 is fooked for them to switch to the Pogo on the third day of the regatta.  Assuming it was the damage from the Scally incident that stopped them racing the TP after just one race of the regatta (they were 2nd).

A couple questions...

How difficult is it to drive a TP52 to its numbers without electronics?

Also

I wold assume its easier to drive said boat to its #'s without electronics in a distance race as opposed to an afternoon around the cans, No?

Last

They are a Pro crew right??  Not just a bunch of weekend warriors?  If pro, how bad is it to have a go without electronics and live up to your contract?  Are there incentives in your pro contract for finishing well??  

Inquiring minds and all that.

 

 

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On 4/29/2019 at 6:55 PM, DFL1010 said:

Well, yes, but...

The counter-argument is how long before the start would they have hade to make the decision to go below everyone? From the start of the video available, they were pinned by the boats to leeward, and could not have borne away even if they wanted to. I'm therefore guessing that they would have had to have decided on that option between 3 and 5 mins before the start.

I confess that my experience driving 100' maxis is limited, but I've driven bigger and slower-reacting things and know that there are times that once one is committed, one is commited, and they were most likely trying to get the best outcome from the situation.

Note I am not excusing their actions: whilst not trivial by any means, bailing out was the option that they should have taken - a fact I'm sure they'd readily admit. However, to say "well, they should have just gone helm down and passed astern" seems a slightly simplistic analysis.

Their failure was that they setup above the layline for the "boat" end.  That defined their options from then on.  They have the details and systems to have known they were above the layline, and subject to potentially being blocked out of the line, LONG before they became overlapped.  They simply wanted that position, and hoped that their speed would carry them to the spot before anyone could luff them out.

 

 

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3 hours ago, duncan (the other one) said:

Geez - who pissed in your cornflakes?

None of your little mouth-dribble has anything to do with the point -- a 350kg daysailor is not a dinghy.

 

 

ps: I see you're from SE Asia -- are you a sock who'll ask me for moonlight walks?  You seem to have the same demeanour.

 

I think it was you tried to piss in them. Fortunately you missed.

The Flying Scot is indeed launched from a trolly or dolly Rushman. And a dingy is defined as an open boat. Admittedly she could also be described as a dayboat but her primary usage is round the cans racing and is stored ashore while a dayboat is generally kept on a mooring where I grew up sailing which is more East UK than SE Asia.   

Duncan, your sight is as sharp as your wit, ie not at all. I am not from SE Asia - guess again but I do object to the insinuation in your moonlight walks comment but I wold expect nothing more adult than that from you.

A dinghy is defined as an open boat so yes it is dipshit.

I do take exception to your comment about moonlight walks - go get a life. No worries though for as of this post I wont have to read your crap any further

 

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On 4/30/2019 at 9:49 AM, Curious said:

In big boats, rubbin can be killing.

They were pumped up for the start and appeared to be viewing the other boats as bugs to either get out of the way or plaster themselves on the bowman's spray deflector (bow), the old big bad boat has rightaway.   It just bit them harder when the bug's stick caught the runner and leech line.   Karma...

- Stumbling

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20 hours ago, mad said:

Yay, the grammar nazi Nazi has arrived. Please feel free to Fuck fuck off. 

I always feel free to do whatever I like, but being condoned by you makes me blush. :wub:

Seriously, you're out there playing bumper-boats to the tune of millions and you cannot pass a Jr High English test? What a loser! :D

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18 hours ago, bodega87 said:

To be fair, facebook has a spell check so you have to be a special kind of dumb to have a mistake. Though "mistakes" seem unavoidable for witty cue rimshot.

Especially when the world will be watching. :lol:

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2 hours ago, shaggy said:

A couple questions...

How difficult is it to drive a TP52 to its numbers without electronics?

Also

I wold assume its easier to drive said boat to its #'s without electronics in a distance race as opposed to an afternoon around the cans, No?

Last

They are a Pro crew right??  Not just a bunch of weekend warriors?  If pro, how bad is it to have a go without electronics and live up to your contract?  Are there incentives in your pro contract for finishing well??  

Inquiring minds and all that.

 

 

Just like any boat boatspeed is critical, reliable and unaffected.  But with a TP,  the big gains are available downwind can be dramatic but subtle to find and the true wind angle info is the big loss.  It's very helpful even if very calibration sensitive.  True wind speed not a huge loss as you can sense that directly.

Easier around the cans, because you have immediate comparables from the other boat's performance.  Distance racing not so much.  High and "slow" can be fast, but hard to convince yourself of that without data.  

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6 minutes ago, Skipper Kenny said:

I always feel free to do whatever I like, but being condoned by you makes me blush. :wub:

Seriously, you're out there playing bumper-boats to the tune of millions and you cannot pass a Jr High English test? What a loser! :D

Jammer Six sock?  

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19 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Well, apparently our grammar "advisor" is a touch "vendictive". 

I gave him a sporty little downvote for his supercilious pedantry and apparently he's sought out other posts of mine to hand out reciprocal downvote honoraria.

Oh boo hoo hoo.

Marxist boy gets butt-hurt in a global warming thread and brings it board-wide. You're like the liberal in the little cute-ute honking his horn while tailgating full sized pickups. I have so much empathy for you. :D

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1 minute ago, Skipper Kenny said:

Oh boo hoo hoo.

Marxist boy gets butt-hurt in a global warming thread and brings it board-wide. You're like the liberal in the little cute-ute honking his horn while tailgating full sized pickups. I have so much empathy for you. :D

Yep, sock.

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4 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Yep, sock.

Well that saves time, added to the ignore list. Thanks 

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23 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

The argument over what a flying scot is is stupid.

No, it's not!

 

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14 hours ago, jack_sparrow said:

Fuck it..I could not resist.

 

told ya!!

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12 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

No, it's not!

 

I paid for an argument not just contradiction.

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15 minutes ago, JohnMB said:

I paid for an argument not just contradiction.

 

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Everyone agrees it's "flying".  The real question is if it's an African or a European Scot.  Ref also the SA brexit thread.

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53 minutes ago, bacq2bacq said:

Everyone agrees it's "flying".  The real question is if it's an African or a European Scot.  Ref also the SA brexit thread.

its a scot, therefore clearly european

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Witty did the same thing at one of the starts of the Vovlo by weaving through the spectator fleet and almost clips a rig with his main...

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