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Crump's Brother

Searail vs Pulse your opinion matters

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Hola, looking at both and need opinions.

Sailed in the past boardboats and currently sail IC and  weta.  Well it's time for something a little bigger as gf wants to be involved and kids are to big for the weta.  I want something like a big Weta, responsive, easily horsed around before starts that you can drive the crap out of.  One thing that makes the weta so special is you can try to drive it to the bottom of the lake in a big blow and it just gets funner.

So my sweet spot is in that 19 to 20 ft range that I can daysail, race (mixed or other) and light camp from.  F22$ is a no go ($), sprint to big.  Sailed DaveK's sprint a few times and although fast and fun just had a "big" feel compared to what I like.

So yesterday I got to set up and sail a sweet pulse all afternoon in 12 to 15kt breeze with a few higher gust.  Powers thru chop, fast up and down.  Hit a little under 17kt.  To me it felt like driving the sprint, a little heavy on the helm, but can be pushed hard in a breeze.  A very solid well build boat that should hold its value.

As for the searail, not much out there other than Thom's videos and a few others.  No real info on the boat when pushed hard.  Been in contact with them and may have to make the trek there to demo.  Little tougher to sell if I move on..

Has anyone here besides Mr. Thom sailed the searail?  Sailed searail and pulse?  Opinion between the two?

Gracias KB

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You know my opinion.  Since you sailed the Pulse to 17, how did it compare to the weta?  IE, was it a wet ride or drier?  What did you think of the cabin--since you have a weta, you probably don't care about cabin space.  Nigel Irens designed the SeaRail...Corsair Somebody designed the Pulse.  Randy Smyth designed the sail suite for the SeaRail, Pulse sail designer was Guess Who?    Having a self tacking jib is quite a nice thing if you are sailing alone--but if you have kids and gf who want to "DO SOMETHING", then that might be a negative.  A Pulse is about 30% heavier (actual weights of a Pulse and a SeaRail); so I expect the SeaRail to act more like a weta.   The boats get the same rating here in SF-so they should have similar speeds. 

That being said, a Pulse is more likely to have a chance at one design.  Ditto Mundt's suggestion, the L7 is a bargain.  Could look at Astus, as well.  Consider that you are talking a big difference in price between the SeaRail and the Pulse (about 10K or more US$), I'm surprised it is even a contest. 

If you are anywhere near San Francisco, you are welcome to a ride on my boat.   

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We have a newly arrived Pulse in our area.  The owner doesn't seem to sail a lot but I did have a chance to look the boat over pretty well.  Seems like the plus side is the convenience of use, well sorted, mast up storage, easy to fold etc.  Haven't seen a Searail in person but if I had a place to keep it put together with the mast up it looks somewhat comparable, though the Pulse looks a bit more boat if you're going out in bigger conditions, taller bows heavier etc.   

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Sailing the weta at 17 with one foot under the cockpit strap hiked off the back of the boat getting hosed surfing down and around swells trying not to stuff feels like your going much faster.  The pulse was no drama at 17, not wet, no tendency to stuff although we were 2 up at the back of the bus, so it didn't 'feel' fast except covering a lot of water quickly.  It's a much larger high buoyancy ama, uphill we actually flew main hull with me in cockpit and owner-copilot on ama yesterday.  

I assume the searail should be sailed flatter than the pulse due to less volume in the amas.  My weta has foam padding for ease of use on the butt while hiking (plus padded neo shorts).  Mr. Thom, have you or your crew hiked off the side of the searail?  

Hiking off the ama on the pulse yesterday was comfy and non dramatic although the hiking straps were loose.

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3 minutes ago, Crump's Brother said:

I assume the searail should be sailed flatter than the pulse due to less volume in the amas.  My weta has foam padding for ease of use on the butt while hiking (plus padded neo shorts).  Mr. Thom, have you or your crew hiked off the side of the searail?  

Hiking off the ama on the pulse yesterday was comfy and non dramatic although the hiking straps were loose.

The SeaRail has hiking straps, but I haven't had to use them.   Since the tramps are set up above the amas, you get more outboard leverage with your weight while still sitting on the tramps; but I suspect that hiking outboard the rails will be uncomfortable without some pads of some sort.  Having the tramps above the amas also allows the lee float to fully submerge before the aka slows (stops) you.  I sailed alone in 12-15 more than once and never felt like I needed to be further outboard, even with spin up-surprised you felt like you needed to hike out in that little breeze.  Also surprised you managed to lift the main hull with someone in the cockpit...wouldn't want to do that in my boat since there's only one rudder.   Lee float does submerge on a close reach with 2 up (one out on the tramp) in 25 kts breeze).   You know the old saw about "old sailors and bold sailors"...I'm now an old sailor so I'm not so bold--I just don't go out if the wind is too strong.   I'm also not certain that the Pulse amas have more volume...the amas on the SeaRail are pretty voluminous.  Pulse (being heavier) will handle chop better; but the SeaRail handles chop pretty well.  Seems to handle it about the same as my old F242.   

 

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I really like the look of the searail, my only concerns versus the pulse would be how robust and usable the folding mechanism is and how easy it would be to store mast up.  My buddy just bought his second weta and watching him set it up was exhausting, I had to go home and take a nap afterwards and I only watched for a few minutes.

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44 minutes ago, mundt said:

I really like the look of the searail, my only concerns versus the pulse would be how robust and usable the folding mechanism is and how easy it would be to store mast up.  My buddy just bought his second weta and watching him set it up was exhausting, I had to go home and take a nap afterwards and I only watched for a few minutes.

Storing mast up shouldn't be a concern.  Folded on the trailer the shrouds are still keeping the mast up athwartships as well as putting some tension on the forestay--the mast raising ministays also are attached, so the mast is really not a concern with the boat on the trailer. I'd want to use a snorkel on the jib using the spin halyard...for UV as well as secure from unfurling.   I'd use the main halyard attached to the mainsheet to ensure there's always some fore-aft tension--SeaRail has a lot of rake on the mast (like an F18 cat)--also helps the boat point a little better.  Folding mechanism is certainly robust; probably a little more robust than that on the F242, but the design is a little different with less weight and no need for compression clips.  Folding and unfolding the SeaRail is different than the F242 because of the geometry...the shrouds have to be loosened to unfold and then retightened; the boat has some dihedral when unfolded (F242 float went straight out-SeaRail float goes down, out and up).   One issue might be the bowsprit.  It goes out 5 feet, so you might have to take the time to take it off for storage.  

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Seems to move nicely in light air.

Only heavier breeze vid I could find.  Very weta like at 1:19.  Completely opposite of my test sail on the pulse in similar wind yesterday which doesn't bury the ama.  Any guesses on speed in this vid?

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That vid is of the older SeaRail (unfold on the trailer-lighter boat) and it may even have the smaller floats from the original design).  He was going probably about 14-15 kts on a close reach.  I was out in 20+ last July.  Had 3 foot chop and some spray.  Won't see faster speeds, though since Wind-Lee and I pinch in bigger winds.  Look for the video with Pat in the title.  Truthfully, you won't go wrong with either design...I just like more bang for my buck.  Even 3 y.o. Pulses cost more than a new SeaRail.  That either says good things about the Pulse resale value or shows how big a bargain the SeaRail is depending on your outlook.

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Love the vid that shows the whole boat moving through the water, great perspective. How much is a new searail?

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20 minutes ago, mundt said:

Love the vid that shows the whole boat moving through the water, great perspective. How much is a new searail?

Pricing:

  • This standard SeaRail 19 package retails for USD27,990

Deposit: 

  • The initial deposit is USD 5,000

Optional Gear:

  • Spinnaker Kit - Furling Spinnaker (25.83 m2, 278 sqf, Spinnaker pole, Ronstan continuous line furler and 4 ratchet control blocks: USD 3,150.
  • Cradle/Trailer conversion kit - includes spring kit, lights, hitch coupler, fenders, license bracket: USD 670
  • Padded D/B Bag: USD 75
  • Second Tiller Extension: USD 140
  • Outboard Mount: USD 340
  • Torqueedo 1003L Outboard  USD 1,999

http://www.searail19.com/p/specs.html

So $20k less than a Pulse?

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Sail away package (trailer, sails, boat, rigging...yadda yadda), I still think Phil sells at 31K USD.  He may have a couple left to sell; dunno whether what he has is folding on the trailer or on the water (mine folds on the water--the on the trailer boats are lighter but it is more difficult for a single person to fold/unfold (and, of course, you need a wider launch ramp)).  Dunno about future production.  There just isn't a very big market for production small tris. between the teeny weta and the more family practical Corsair 760 (has real cabin with sleeping area).    Sailing is an expensive hobby.  

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Here's a vid of my boat in similar conditions to what you were in on the Pulse the other day.  No spin run since current was against us going to weather (so trip downwind was already too quick).  

 

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Hi all,

There was another version of this video at some time with longer segments showing them going fast.  

This is a fun Pulse 600 video in my opinion.; do not know how fast they are going but they are moving!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hw3CXjup9Bs 

BTW this is an interesting discussion as these two boats are on my potential retirement boat if they are still around a few years from now. 

Cheers, 

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20 hours ago, vaplaya said:

 

BTW this is an interesting discussion as these two boats are on my potential retirement boat if they are still around a few years from now. 

Cheers, 

No doubt at all that these are two good boats.  Corsair makes a good product, but they charge an awful lot for a micro tri  (30% more than a SeaRail).  But if you want a SeaRail, you really ought to buy one now since I don't know if there will be much future production.  It is a long way from Vietnam (Triac composites makes SeaRail) to Illinois (where they are assembled).  I actually watched my boat traverse the Indian Ocean on the containership, go through the Suez, Med, and Atlantic).  As an aside, I wouldn't recommend Triac composites as a boat builder (Rapido wannabuyers take note).  There were production mistakes on my SeaRail that I had to fix (daggerboard trunk leak and a couple voids)--but had similar production errors on my Corsair 24 so I expect the build quality is similar.  Trimarans are complex toys.  If you don't like working on boats, don't buy one.

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4 hours ago, monomuncher said:

My Pulse is for sale, but im in Aus.

Well hell, I'm in Austin too! I may want to check it out.

But seriously, nobody on S.A. except MultiThom has ever sailed a Searail??

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3 hours ago, Crump's Brother said:

Well hell, I'm in Austin too! I may want to check it out.

But seriously, nobody on S.A. except MultiThom has ever sailed a Searail??

There is one other owner that I know about in Minnesota.  I think that was the vid you posted above.  He sails it with Bob Bilger who is a SeaRail rep.  And, of course, the SeaRail company owner, Phil Medley, who sails in Illinois with his family.  There are only a dozen or so boats in the world and only 5 in the last production in 2017 of which only 3 were set up for folding on the water.  Phil makes these boats more as a labor of love rather than a commercial enterprise...his company motto, after all, is "Performance by Design".   For me, it is a single handers dream come true.  Fast, responsive, safe with well thought out control systems.  Heck, it even has mast rotation inducers which I've never even hooked up, since there's no boom, the mast rotation is pretty perfect going to weather.  

My wife won't go into a restaurant unless it looks busy, figuring the food can't be that great if no one is there...I'm more adventurous, which is why I own a SeaRail and not a Pulse...after all, had an F242 so the Pulse would be BTDT (been there done that).    F242 is a great boat, performance suffered in medium breeze, but it was rock solid in big wind.  SeaRail is amazing in light breeze.   Good performance in medium breeze (12 kt boatspeed in 15 kt wind to weather) and I don't know about big wind yet.  For me, the difference in price was the decider.  10-15K More for an equivalent ride just seemed a waste.  

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MultiThom --- I am close to purchasing a SeaRail and would love to speak with you about your experience -- pros and cons. Really interested to hearing about any modifications you felt enhanced the boat when new as well as any other repairs you had to make.

Is there a way to get in touch directly?

Thanks

 

 

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Sent you a pm with contact info.

 

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17 hours ago, Tornado_ALIVE said:

Corsair Pulse picks up a win in the Tin Can Bay to Hervey Bay Regatta.  Four Pulses competing.

08435B2C-0754-495F-AB70-B1BACEA803C1.jpeg

Actually only three Pulse's were entered and one of them decided not to race so only 2 of us raced in the 7 boat Division 2 fleet.  We were happy to beat the other Pulse and win our division on Elapsed and PBH rating.  

It was a light wind regatta which is definitely not the Pulse's strong point so we were extremely happy with our results.  Lets hope for 15 knots next year so we can really get the Pulse in her sweet spot!

Win.jpg

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Love to hear how the racing went. As a pulse owner we struggle to get the boat going In less the 12kts of breeze. We have got a fairly large jib/code 0 cut from a j109 jib which we set off the sprit and also super sized the kite to 45sqm which helps in the lighter wind. Over 15kts we sail 3 up and the boat works very well as designed with standard jib and kite. We find we can hold on the this set up to 25-30kts. We haven’t been out on stronger winds yet so not seen how the reef works

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16 minutes ago, sealion said:

Love to hear how the racing went. As a pulse owner we struggle to get the boat going In less the 12kts of breeze. We have got a fairly large jib/code 0 cut from a j109 jib which we set off the sprit and also super sized the kite to 45sqm which helps in the lighter wind. Over 15kts we sail 3 up and the boat works very well as designed with standard jib and kite. We find we can hold on the this set up to 25-30kts. We haven’t been out on stronger winds yet so not seen how the reef works

Sounds like my F242.  With it, I had to devise methods to make it move better until about 12 kts wind; after that though, the boat was a fun toy up to 30+ kts wind.  SeaRail isn't like that at all.  Moves fine in light and medium wind...I expect I will have to reef if wind gets above 25-especially if single handing.  

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

Sounds like my F242.  With it, I had to devise methods to make it move better until about 12 kts wind; after that though, the boat was a fun toy up to 30+ kts wind.  SeaRail isn't like that at all.  Moves fine in light and medium wind...I expect I will have to reef if wind gets above 25-especially if single handing.  

The pulse feels very sticky up to 12/15kts breeze. Getting that windward hull out of the water seems to key but still slow.  Under 12kts maybe we get 6.5 upwind but massively bow down. Until the middle hull starts kissing the water in higher winds the upwind angle it pretty poor. Down wind the angles are huge until it’s windy 

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16 hours ago, dave202 said:

Actually only three Pulse's were entered and one of them decided not to race so only 2 of us raced in the 7 boat Division 2 fleet.  We were happy to beat the other Pulse and win our division on Elapsed and PBH rating.  

It was a light wind regatta which is definitely not the Pulse's strong point so we were extremely happy with our results.  Lets hope for 15 knots next year so we can really get the Pulse in her sweet spot!

Win.jpg

Congrats Dave, it’s an awesome regatta.  Hopefully I can make it back up there next year.

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I have not sailed this boat, nor seen one in person. But the design pedigree (VPLP) is strong and once you wrap your head around the seemingly conflicted vaka and ama shapes, you realize the future. Just another boat to possibly consider among the two fine boats you've already mentioned:  

 

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20 hours ago, dave202 said:

Actually only three Pulse's were entered and one of them decided not to race so only 2 of us raced in the 7 boat Division 2 fleet.  We were happy to beat the other Pulse and win our division on Elapsed and PBH rating.  

It was a light wind regatta which is definitely not the Pulse's strong point so we were extremely happy with our results.  Lets hope for 15 knots next year so we can really get the Pulse in her sweet spot!

Win.jpg

Well done boys. Hope to see you next year for the 40th. I think the Pulses are good enough to be competing in the division with the Corsairs and Farriers rather than the tramps and Windrush. They clearly have good performance potential especially in clear water. 

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2 hours ago, WetnWild said:

Well done boys. Hope to see you next year for the 40th. I think the Pulses are good enough to be competing in the division with the Corsairs and Farriers rather than the tramps and Windrush. They clearly have good performance potential especially in clear water. 

I was a bit disappointed to be in the "slow multis" division but it ended up OK as we can't match you guys on the 22's and larger in the light stuff.  The Pulse's big ama's are awesome in 12+ but she really is a pig in the light stuff.  We were right behind you on Day 1 with our nice screecher but our smallish kite really let us down on Day 2.  We'll be better prepared next year and hopefully we get 15+ and can duke it out with you big boys in Div 1.

Will be nice to have a crack at you all on Moreton Bay.  St Helena Cup for sure.  Anything else before that?

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15 hours ago, sealion said:

Love to hear how the racing went. As a pulse owner we struggle to get the boat going In less the 12kts of breeze. We have got a fairly large jib/code 0 cut from a j109 jib which we set off the sprit and also super sized the kite to 45sqm which helps in the lighter wind. Over 15kts we sail 3 up and the boat works very well as designed with standard jib and kite. We find we can hold on the this set up to 25-30kts. We haven’t been out on stronger winds yet so not seen how the reef works

You're not the only one to have troubles in the light stuff.  We find anything under 10 knots and she's an absolute pig.  The big ama's just drag their slow arses through the water.  In the light stuff we get our crew weight down to leeward and forward to try and get the windward ama out of the water.  We run a nice big screecher to windward in the light stuff, sheeted in nice and close on the aft beam and kept very flat, it really powers the Pulse up beautifully.

We only sail 2 up at about 160kg even in stronger winds.  We have never felt the need to reef yet even in decent winds.  That being said we come from a Hobie cat background so are used to pushing multi's hard.  We have buried the Pulse up to the cabin many times and she just pops up and keeps going.  Very impressed with the strong wind ability.  We only have the standard kite but the plan is to upgrade to a larger deeper downwind kite for light downwind conditions.

The Bay to Bay was great even with the light winds.  Day 1 we misjudged the downwind start and were second last boat over the line but we fought our way back through the fleet to take line honours in our division and 7th over the line out of 19 multihulls.  We had a great upwind screecher run holding onto an F22 before one of our ratchet blocks went bang and exploded into many pieces which took us a few minutes to get under control.  I'd like to think we could have got the F22 (wishful thinking haha) but Im sure WetnWild wasn't going to let us past without a fight haha.  We beat the other Pulse by a lot and were happy to beat a new Sting 600 over the line and on handicap.

Day 2 wasn't our day as it was light and seemed to be deep downwind everywhere we went.  The flat-ish Pulse asy was simply shit at this.  Hence the likely order for a bigger deeper running kite.  We still did enough to finish the regatta as fastest Div 2 boat over the line and took home the handicap honours too.  Kept with the F22 for a while after the start but they ended up leaving us in their wake as did the bigger F82s and F9s.  

We enjoyed the racing a lot and the partying even more.  We learnt a lot about the Pulse and have a decent list of things to modify to try and improve light wind performance.  Hopefully we can get out for more racing in open waters, but that's up to the owner, Im just the hired help, sometimes known as the nut on the tiller haha

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4 hours ago, dave202 said:

I was a bit disappointed to be in the "slow multis" division but it ended up OK as we can't match you guys on the 22's and larger in the light stuff.  The Pulse's big ama's are awesome in 12+ but she really is a pig in the light stuff.  We were right behind you on Day 1 with our nice screecher but our smallish kite really let us down on Day 2.  We'll be better prepared next year and hopefully we get 15+ and can duke it out with you big boys in Div 1.

Will be nice to have a crack at you all on Moreton Bay.  St Helena Cup for sure.  Anything else before that?

Wivenhoe weekend 7&8 June. I’m doing Phuket Race week in July but will be back for the Humpybong Winter bash at the end of July. Was thinking of doing the marathon Sunday on the Tri and will try and talk Plywoodboy in to it. A Pulse and we’ve got three. Can’t do St Helens Cup as I’m in Europe racing then. 

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hoping to get plywood boy on his weta for the humpybong bash, we are all coming down to race him again.

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20 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I have not sailed this boat (Astus 20.5), nor seen one in person. But the design pedigree (VPLP) is strong and once you wrap your head around the seemingly conflicted vaka and ama shapes, you realize the future. Just another boat to possibly consider among the two fine boats you've already mentioned:  

 

That was pretty impressive with 3 folks in the cockpit, honkin' around 14 kts or so (based on wake length) and not burying the lee float.  Sure was a tiny reaching sail...hope it can use a bigger spin than that.   Still like my SeaRail, but the interior of the 20.5 is big enough to actually be of some use other than a sail locker (based on videos).  

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Love all the boats here and nice to finally have the Pulse on the race course in bay to bay, well sailed so the data is good. 

Imho designing a little boat well is harder than doodling lines for a big boat. It looks like in under 10 knots the Pulse is fighting her flat rocker line similar to the pain I felt doing DDW in  Diam last year in 5 knots. Worse pain than pulling teeth. The Pulse also seems to have the float wakes smashing into the main hull at low speed, would love to wind the floats out 300 mm and it may go a lot better. Keen to charter one for an Asian regatta if they could guarantee 15 knots.

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I think, based on the posts here, the stock Pulse is a fun ride from 12 kts to 25 kts (or maybe more) but suffers in light stuff.  SeaRail (going back to the topic of this blurb) is a fun ride from zephyr to 20 (and maybe more, I haven't been in much more than that yet).  SO, for buyers, get a SeaRail if you sail in under 20 for fun; get a Pulse if you race one design OR you like sailing in 15 to 25 kts wind.  

As far as investment goes, you invest 30K for the SeaRail and you might lose 10K if you own for 5 years....if you get a pulse you are investing 45K but you might only lose 8K if you own one for 5 years.  

If you sail with crew, doesn't matter which boat...if you single hand, SeaRail is a better choice due to self tacking jib.  

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Out of interest what do your pulse’s and searails + any other similar boats rate at? We don’t have a MORCA rating yet (UK multihull rating system) so have an estimated Portsmouth yardstick of 820 based on some older pulse rating we saw a few years back. Now more are racing perhaps the ratings have firmed up a bit. 

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7 hours ago, sealion said:

Out of interest what do your pulse’s and searails + any other similar boats rate at? We don’t have a MORCA rating yet (UK multihull rating system) so have an estimated Portsmouth yardstick of 820 based on some older pulse rating we saw a few years back. Now more are racing perhaps the ratings have firmed up a bit. 

San Francisco BAMA rates both Pulse and SeaRail at 51 sec/mile in PHRF.  I know that's not very useful except that they are rated the same.  We haven't raced one against the other, though, since we aren't racing much, if any.  The 51 sec/mile translates to 0.809 Time Correction Factor (TCF).  I don't know how BAMA calculates it except it is some sort of version of Texel and based on actual weights of the boats and using sailmaker certified sail measurements.  

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56 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

San Francisco BAMA rates both Pulse and SeaRail at 51 sec/mile in PHRF.  I know that's not very useful except that they are rated the same.  We haven't raced one against the other, though, since we aren't racing much, if any.  The 51 sec/mile translates to 0.809 Time Correction Factor (TCF).  I don't know how BAMA calculates it except it is some sort of version of Texel and based on actual weights of the boats and using sailmaker certified sail measurements.  

Thanks. Will do some digging to see what that can translate to

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You might find this link useful

http://www.texelrating.org/site/pub/Pagina.php?paginaid=45

There's some interesting history as well as an "easy" TR calculator you might find useful.  I plugged in my numbers and get close to what BAMA TCF says--even after correcting for one more crew than needed.  What's even easier is the basic formula, TCF = rl ^0.3 * rsa ^ 0.4 / rw ^ 0.325. where rl is length, rsa is sail area and rw is weight.  

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Benicia marina on the Carquinez strait in N. CA about 30 miles from San Francisco.  Weather this time of year is usually very good for sailing with winds in the low teens until about 5 pm when the sea breeze kicks in and it honks from 20 to 30.  Will be doing that from now unitl late August.  If you want a ride, just ask.  

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I'm almost ready to splash and would like to bring my tri down and buddy sail with you. How wide is the boat ramp? Do they have a guest dock available? Mine doesn't set up as fast as yours, so I'm gonna want to sail more than one day after getting her rigged.

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Launch ramp is 20 ft wide, so can accommodate most boats; but it is shallow angle, my boat has to have 1 foot tide to launch retrieve...WR17 took more; Hobie Getaway took less.  SO check tides and guesstimate how much water you need to launch.  .  I also usually guest berth for 2 day sails in a row before taking it down again.  they have side ties available and it is 20 bucks a night.  You will need an outboard since the ride from the launch to the exit is dead upwind with not enough room to tack.  This coming week I'm busy, but most other times I can go on a whim.  PM me when you want to come.  All others also welcome...Carquinez is a joy to sail.

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On 5/12/2019 at 8:21 AM, rodlaser said:

hoping to get plywood boy on his weta for the humpybong bash, we are all coming down to race him again.

@plywoodboy ... IF he doesn't sail the Weta at Humpy, his gonads are going to be strung from a very high perch ... but then he might like that - hmm; & he won't be getting any liquid refreshment from me.

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I realize this boat is not on your list and even I would have trouble fully recommending it, but I toss it out there nonetheless. A sailing buddy of mind shot this from distance on shore this past Sunday. Hand held and full zoom, but gives a nice idea of what the boat does in light to moderate air... 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I realize this boat is not on your list and even I would have trouble fully recommending it, but I toss it out there nonetheless. A sailing buddy of mind shot this from distance on shore this past Sunday. Hand held and full zoom, but gives a nice idea of what the boat does in light to moderate air... 

 

Looks like fun.  Boat appears stiffer than I'd expect given the sliding tube design...did you have to modify it to get that stiff?  I assume you've fixed the "always turns to port" that you experienced when it was new.  

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No, the boat still has weather helm when on port tack, and lee helm on starboard tack. Daggerboard trunk may be crooked to one side by a few degrees. The newer models use a twin up board so this may have been resolved when they went to that design.

The sliding tube design is absolutely dead-on stiff. Nothing clunks, thunks or shifts. There is no movement whatsoever. The tramp tension probably helps with that, and the inner tube shims that make the tubes very close fitting. Plus, the side shrouds are attached to the rear aka bar at the ama connection point.

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Well, despite never having seen one in person, I've decided on a Searail.  More specifically a dealer demo socket inserted boat with 2 sets of sails, new and brand new.

Used/demo boats I considered and or test sailed were:

Dealer demo pulse 600 ( needed LOTS of TLC) @ 33.8k

Lightly used '17 tricked out pulse @ 44k

Searail demo '17 lightly used with lightly used sails plus a brand new set @ 28.2k

I talked extensively with Phil Medley, Randy Smyth who developed the sailplan (great insight!), current owners and one other gent here that just purchased one last week.

Plan is to get up to speed quickly and race the crap out of it in the mixed multi fleets here.  Against the boats I considered but passed on -Pulse, sprint, f242's etc.

If I am successful in demonstrating its performance vs price, who knows, maybe it will gain some traction.

 

KB

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21 minutes ago, Crump's Brother said:

Well, despite never having seen one in person, I've decided on a Searail.  More specifically a dealer demo socket inserted boat with 2 sets of sails, new and brand new.

Used/demo boats I considered and or test sailed were:

Dealer demo pulse 600 ( needed LOTS of TLC) @ 33.8k

Lightly used '17 tricked out pulse @ 44k

Searail demo '17 lightly used with lightly used sails plus a brand new set @ 28.2k

I talked extensively with Phil Medley, Randy Smyth who developed the sailplan (great insight!), current owners and one other gent here that just purchased one last week.

Plan is to get up to speed quickly and race the crap out of it in the mixed multi fleets here.  Against the boats I considered but passed on -Pulse, sprint, f242's etc.

If I am successful in demonstrating its performance vs price, who knows, maybe it will gain some traction.

 

KB

KB, there was an early version with smaller volume floats. Is this the one you bought, or is it the present version float-wise?

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27 minutes ago, Crump's Brother said:

Well, despite never having seen one in person, I've decided on a Searail.  More specifically a dealer demo socket inserted boat with 2 sets of sails, new and brand new.

Used/demo boats I considered and or test sailed were:

Dealer demo pulse 600 ( needed LOTS of TLC) @ 33.8k

Lightly used '17 tricked out pulse @ 44k

Searail demo '17 lightly used with lightly used sails plus a brand new set @ 28.2k

I talked extensively with Phil Medley, Randy Smyth who developed the sailplan (great insight!), current owners and one other gent here that just purchased one last week.

Plan is to get up to speed quickly and race the crap out of it in the mixed multi fleets here.  Against the boats I considered but passed on -Pulse, sprint, f242's etc.

If I am successful in demonstrating its performance vs price, who knows, maybe it will gain some traction.

 

KB

Congratulations.  Phil told me of the two sales within a week of each other.  I spoke with the other new owner (A cat sailor) prior to his test sail in IL.  I think you'll be happy.  Would be interested in learning what Randy said about the sailplan-particularly why he decided on such a long bowsprit (if you have RSs contact info, I'd appreciate you sharing with me). I really like the mainsail design once I got the right sized boltrope.  I do wonder why he decided to go with only one clew hole on the mainsail instead of a clew board like you find in beachcat boomless mainsails.  At least by getting a demo boat, the boat will start out with everything dialed in (rudder rake, mast rake, yadda yadda).   I think the boat you are getting won a couple regattas up there in Minnesota with Bob Bilger driving.

 Sail(plane) since the boat is a '17, it has the recent larger floats.  

 

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2 hours ago, sail(plane) said:

KB, there was an early version with smaller volume floats. Is this the one you bought, or is it the present version float-wise?

It is the present larger volume ama.  This particular one has the tube insert beam, not folding.  I prefer to rig up on the hard, then drop in, sail away.

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1 hour ago, MultiThom said:

Congratulations.  Phil told me of the two sales within a week of each other.  I spoke with the other new owner (A cat sailor) prior to his test sail in IL.  I think you'll be happy.  Would be interested in learning what Randy said about the sailplan-particularly why he decided on such a long bowsprit (if you have RSs contact info, I'd appreciate you sharing with me). I really like the mainsail design once I got the right sized boltrope.  I do wonder why he decided to go with only one clew hole on the mainsail instead of a clew board like you find in beachcat boomless mainsails.  At least by getting a demo boat, the boat will start out with everything dialed in (rudder rake, mast rake, yadda yadda).   I think the boat you are getting won a couple regattas up there in Minnesota with Bob Bilger driving.

 Sail(plane) since the boat is a '17, it has the recent larger floats.  

 

Randy has a long list of notes on what and why he designed it the way he did.  He talks fast (like he sails)!  So you better be ready to take it all in. 

I recall him saying originally it had a much deeper cut assymetric spin.  He redesigned it to be flatter, extended the sprit to really open up the downwind performance, a heat up and soak sail.  Also I recall that by extending the sprit allows flying the jib down wind as well.  I came away with the impression he worked his magic and totally tuned it for optimizing for apparent wind as this boat should be.  

There were also issues with helm and balance that he corrected.  Although he has not sailed the searail, I felt like he had a very good impression of what would be like to.  I've met Randy several times, raced wetas with and had dinner with him.  He is a smart dude, a really smart dude, but an ordinary joe, that's passionate about what he does.

Bob Bilger did pretty good demoing and raced it a few times in MN and did very well (in portsmouth) Unfortunately I don't think he sold many there if at all.

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That is the way Randy prefers to sail downwind (heat up and soak) according to folks who have taken lessons from him...He cleats the spin and drives to the luff instead of having someone trim.  When I do that in this boat, so far anyway, the spin collapses faster than I can steer to keep it full--might have something to do with my removal of the anti torque line from the luff to make it top down furling.  I haven't tried sailing with the jib inside downwind, maybe I will this year--since it is on a track, it shouldn't be a bother.  Since I sail in so much current and predominantly wind-lee, I would have preferred a plumper spin (this has only a 55% SMG--which  means it really isn't a spin by definition).  There have been times in light breeze and adverse current that the only way I make it downwind has been to go wing and wing (had to do the same thing in the weta in similar conditions).  

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On 5/8/2019 at 10:41 AM, losapio4242 said:

MultiThom --- I am close to purchasing a SeaRail and would love to speak with you about your experience -- pros and cons. Really interested to hearing about any modifications you felt enhanced the boat when new as well as any other repairs you had to make.

Is there a way to get in touch directly?

Thanks

 

 

Wow!!!!!! It looks like there will be a SeaRail in the mid-atlantic.   Awesome!!!!!!!

I may get to see one in person. 

Cheers, 

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UPDATE

Unfortunately, I sent the demo model I bought back in June back to the manufacturer due to some circumstances with that particular boat that both of us did not know about.  I really liked the way it sailed although I only sailed it in less than 10.  A shame it didn't work out, I'll leave it at that.

I did end up buying a lightly used 2014 (same hulls) that will be here next week, along with new and updated sails, tramps, sprit etc.

Stay tuned..

 

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1 hour ago, Crump's Brother said:

UPDATE

Unfortunately, I sent the demo model I bought back in June back to the manufacturer due to some circumstances with that particular boat that both of us did not know about.  I really liked the way it sailed although I only sailed it in less than 10.  A shame it didn't work out, I'll leave it at that.

I did end up buying a lightly used 2014 (same hulls) that will be here next week, along with new and updated sails, tramps, sprit etc.

Stay tuned..

 

Sorry it didn't work out for you.  Lucky you found another available.  Personally I have not been sailing much.  Been working on modifying the boat so it can accommodate a spinnaker snuffer and I'm going back to the shorter sprit instead of the way Randy wants you to sail it.  Couple reasons, biggest one is to shorten setup and take down time.  As a trailer sailor, it makes a big difference to me to "sail on a whim" instead of having to plan days in advance (not that it takes days to setup).  But the time to setup and take down makes it more fun to leave in the marina overnight to split up the wasted time.  Sure, I could leave the spin at home-this time of year I don't really need it.  I'm losing the zest for sailing--need a new hobby maybe.

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On 5/12/2019 at 9:09 AM, sealion said:

Out of interest what do your pulse’s and searails + any other similar boats rate at? We don’t have a MORCA rating yet (UK multihull rating system) so have an estimated Portsmouth yardstick of 820 based on some older pulse rating we saw a few years back. Now more are racing perhaps the ratings have firmed up a bit. 

It was 1.361 at the 2016 nationals

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Hi guys.

Could anyone post some photos of flying sails for a Pulse? Or any other mods?

Currently I am using kind of genoa for light wind conditions and under 12 kts performance has increased significantly, but I can sail nowhere near as high as with a jib... but for the sailing I do it is just fine. 

The other thing I was thinking about is how to attach sheets of this genoa/screecher down to the main hull and not to the aft beam. This way the sail area could be increased by app. 2 m2 and with some kind of traveller the form could be better adjusted.

Any suggestions would be highly appreciated...

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No photos, but suggestion since I had a similar issue with my F242 and a windseeker; flying jib.  put a stout line with loops every half foot between the akas fore and aft along the main hull and used those loops as sheeting points until I found the optimum.  Led the line from the loop block to the spin winch...since you probably don't have a winch, you might have to 2:1 on the genoa clew with ratchet blocks.   Might have to install a cleat once you find the right spot.

 

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