dan_nixon

2019 52 SUPER SERIES

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10 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Not a fan of DeVos for many reasons and am enjoying their failure in this series.  Not a fan as they have shown the willingness to cheat.  Proof, why didn't Windquest sail the '94 Chi-Mac and why didn't they return the trophies from the PH-Mac where they similarly cheated?  

Bola is not on the boat as well and I think boats are not allowed to go slow with him on board.  

1Sailor will jump in and tell us how great the DeVos family is as he develops commercial property in their hometown.  Take that as you will.  1Sailor is a great guy and kissing the right ass.  

I'm enjoying this.  

Well, it isn't "their" hometown-- it's mine too !    Doug is a friend, but there would be no reason to kiss his ass other than out of the massive respect I have for him individually and what their family has done for our community----- and also the SAILING community.   Are you aware of what they've brought to the pro sailing community, the boat builders, the jobs and such ?     Do you also think he cheats on the TP52 and that's why he and Terry are multiple world champions and such ?     I'd spell these things  out but don't want to hijack the thread further..

I have zero specific knowledge about any alleged 'cheating' you mention, so I cannot defend or confirm but I will tell you this:  that program is full-on, high standard to a level I've never seen anywhere, ever.   

 

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29 minutes ago, 1sailor said:

Well, it isn't "their" hometown-- it's mine too !    Doug is a friend, but there would be no reason to kiss his ass other than out of the massive respect I have for him individually and what their family has done for our community----- and also the SAILING community.   Are you aware of what they've brought to the pro sailing community, the boat builders, the jobs and such ?     Do you also think he cheats on the TP52 and that's why he and Terry are multiple world champions and such ?     I'd spell these things  out but don't want to hijack the thread further..

I have zero specific knowledge about any alleged 'cheating' you mention, so I cannot defend or confirm but I will tell you this:  that program is full-on, high standard to a level I've never seen anywhere, ever.   

 

You read like marshmallow.  Slow and smooth.  Ask your friend a direct question about what I posed.  Do you agree that they would have sailed  PH and not CHI?

You're a good guy.  

Do  some research and apologize.

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36 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

You read like marshmallow.  Slow and smooth.  Ask your friend a direct question about what I posed.  Do you agree that they would have sailed  PH and not CHI?

You're a good guy.  

Do  some research and apologize.

Cal,

You are an asshole, and obviously have been one since the 90's.  

Edited by Crossland
hit wrong keys

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31 minutes ago, Crossland said:

Cal,

You are an asshole, and obviously have been one since the 90's.  

I was an asshole long before the '90's.

Why?  My name is Jim Lyden and I was on the boat that finished 2nd to Windquest in the PH-Mac that year and learned of their cheating later.  My dying father was on that sail and finishing 1st would have meant a lot to him.  

Put your name up Crossland.  Punk bitch since right now.  

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Chickenshits!  Do your homework and apologize.  Eric, you are too big a pussy to do anything to piss off the DeVos clan.  Wear the tampon tightly. 

 

And so folks don't lose focus,, my only contention is that Windquest sailed the PH-Mac with an untruth application.  Chicago Yacht Club  caught them and said see you next year.  In the midterm,  no one from BYC acted.  They accepted the trophies after being kicked out of the Chicago race.  That makes them cheaters in my book and those at BYC at the time clueless.

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Just now, SF Woody Sailor said:

Somtimes I think laptops and phones should breathalyzers.

You referring to me?

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I made it from Chicago to Port Huron in my first solo race.  You made it safely home.  I remember your tears, please a revival...

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I suggest we get back to the racing, I like supporting the folks competing and my interest in Q has been mainly Ed B., a guy from our neck of the woods, along with the great racing that these boats have provided since back in the MedCup days. If you have a beef with DeVos do not take it out on the rest of the teams or those that appreciate the class and the boats in the thread. This is about the series and the racing that we enjoy, not a personal grievance zone, if you have a beef then power to you, just not here as there are other options for that.

Having visited with the guys that run this when the series came to Miami I was very impressed by the teams, their courtesy in taking time to speak with me, and to allow access around the compound as I pleased. Of course most of it was open but there were a few places that they could have said 'stay out' but never did.

Now, back to the racing...

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Thanks for the segway Bill, and the racing was great today by the way. Tomorrow should be good viewing!

 

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20 minutes ago, dan_nixon said:

Thanks for the segway Bill, and the racing was great today by the way. Tomorrow should be good viewing!

 

Any time...

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Pretty cool that after eight races, seven of the eight boats have a bullet. 

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Phoenix 11  wins race 8.

Was looking for the crew list for Phoenix 11/12 without 12 sailing this event has anyone seen one?

I thought Phoenix 11 was the newer boat (2018) and with Hasso driving, does anyone know which crew is out on P11at this event and why 12 (2014 boat) is not sailing this event, which Tina was helming? I think I heard  both are doing the worlds but Phoenix 11 was the only one doing the full series. I know not every boat competes in the full series but interested to see if Tina is driving 11 or not for PS, I cant tell from the videos.

The results from Menorca for Phoenix 12  were strong with several top 3 finishes and taking three races off off the 4 year newer Phoenix 11.

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21 minutes ago, DHFiend said:

Phoenix 11  wins race 8.

Was looking for the crew list for Phoenix 11/12 without 12 sailing this event has anyone seen one?

I thought Phoenix 11 was the newer boat (2018) and with Hasso driving, does anyone know which crew is out on P11at this event and why 12 (2014 boat) is not sailing this event, which Tina was helming? I think I heard  both are doing the worlds but Phoenix 11 was the only one doing the full series. I know not every boat competes in the full series but interested to see if Tina is driving 11 or not for PS, I cant tell from the videos.

The results from Menorca for Phoenix 12  were strong with several top 3 finishes and taking three races off off the 4 year newer Phoenix 11.

I think Tina is driving 11 at this regatta and the others with the newer boat, Hasso drives 12 when he is available if I remember it correctly.

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2 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

Pretty cool that after eight races, seven of the eight boats have a bullet. 

 

That is amazingly close racing, indeed!!

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9 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

That is amazingly close racing, indeed!!

Anyone know the last time the bullets were so split? 

Would be pretty cool for Sled to claim one today..

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12 minutes ago, Terrorvision said:

What time GMT is the start of racing? 

Pretty sure broadcast starts at 11:00 GMT (it's 13:00 Central European Time)

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On 6/20/2019 at 10:54 PM, Cal20sailor said:

I was an asshole long before the '90's.

Why?  My name is Jim Lyden and I was on the boat that finished 2nd to Windquest in the PH-Mac that year and learned of their cheating later.  My dying father was on that sail and finishing 1st would have meant a lot to him.  

Put your name up Crossland.  Punk bitch since right now.  

If you didn’t have dying guys for crew, you might have beat them anyway.  Just sayin. 

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19 hours ago, DHFiend said:

Phoenix 11  wins race 8.

Was looking for the crew list for Phoenix 11/12 without 12 sailing this event has anyone seen one?

I thought Phoenix 11 was the newer boat (2018) and with Hasso driving, does anyone know which crew is out on P11at this event and why 12 (2014 boat) is not sailing this event, which Tina was helming? I think I heard  both are doing the worlds but Phoenix 11 was the only one doing the full series. I know not every boat competes in the full series but interested to see if Tina is driving 11 or not for PS, I cant tell from the videos.

The results from Menorca for Phoenix 12  were strong with several top 3 finishes and taking three races off off the 4 year newer Phoenix 11.

 

19 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

I think Tina is driving 11 at this regatta and the others with the newer boat, Hasso drives 12 when he is available if I remember it correctly.

Answer:
tina.thumb.JPG.9a69c1de444d130f72e56164921bfe9a.JPG

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11 minutes ago, dan_nixon said:

Great racing, thanks for your support!

Thanks a lot for this wonderful week, the great racing, the warm welcome, the support, the catering :).
It was a lot of fun, you guys rock!

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On 6/20/2019 at 11:49 PM, Cal20sailor said:

Chickenshits!  Do your homework and apologize.  Eric, you are too big a pussy to do anything to piss off the DeVos clan.  Wear the tampon tightly. 

Hi Jim.  I"m not mad at you.  Somehow between post #102 and #106 I went from being "a good guy" to being " a pussy."   

Will you be in chicago for the Mac race ?   Please introduce yourself, I will decide then  if I think you're a good guy- or maybe a pussy- and I will either buy you a drink or shove you off the dock as appropriate at the time.     

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Looks like Cascais has turned it on again for 2019 - downwind speeds consistently in the high teens and Quantum seemingly getting their shit together again...

@dan_nixon how come we can't get live footage from Cascais? It would seem like the perfect venue to be live streamed given the conditions? Or is this actually part of the reason why it's not possible?

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Seven different winners in a nine race series.  Downwind speeds of up to 25 knots.  Check the boats together at 0:46.  I often think about why these boots are not been used for the America's Cup.  The daily video reports though short are worth watching as well.

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13 hours ago, nimbus said:

 

Seven different winners in a nine race series.  Downwind speeds of up to 25 knots.  Check the boats together at 0:46.  I often think about why these boots are not been used for the America's Cup.  The daily video reports though short are worth watching as well.

 

That is sofa king awesome!!  Waves don't look big enough for all the deck wash, but I know videos and diminish them to the untrained eye....

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2020 dates announced, season opens in Cape Town!

 

 

IMG_20190802_182548.jpg

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Provezza dropped their rig in the opening race of the Puerto Portals World Championship. 

Not sure yet if it was a result of other damage/collision.

Team are trying to load spare rig onto a ferry in Valencia to be here tomorrow morning.

Pretty gutting for a team that were showing such significant improvements this year and were legitamete challengers for the event and over all series.

 

 

IMG_20190825_142127.jpg

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7 hours ago, NZK said:

Provezza dropped their rig in the opening race of the Puerto Portals World Championship. 

Not sure yet if it was a result of other damage/collision.

Team are trying to load spare rig onto a ferry in Valencia to be here tomorrow morning.

Pretty gutting for a team that were showing such significant improvements this year and were legitamete challengers for the event and over all series.

 

 

IMG_20190825_142127.jpg

No collision, it simply folded while sailing upwind.  Mast in several pieces, suggests a cap or diagonal let go.

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10 hours ago, NZK said:

Provezza dropped their rig in the opening race of the Puerto Portals World Championship. 

Not sure yet if it was a result of other damage/collision.

Team are trying to load spare rig onto a ferry in Valencia to be here tomorrow morning.

Pretty gutting for a team that were showing such significant improvements this year and were legitamete challengers for the event and over all series.

 

 

IMG_20190825_142127.jpg

Saw that this morning, that really sucks, hope they get the spare rig in and get back to racing.

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4 hours ago, hhn92 said:

Saw that this morning, that really sucks, hope they get the spare rig in and get back to racing.

Watched the replay a few times I think Bronenosec's prodder hit the Caps/D1's of Provessa when they got turned onto Port at the top mark trying to shoot it. There was a frame I saw that kind of indicated a slight brush.

 

Do these boats use EC6 or 3??

 

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59 minutes ago, AWASP said:

Watched the replay a few times I think Bronenosec's prodder hit the Caps/D1's of Provessa when they got turned onto Port at the top mark trying to shoot it. There was a frame I saw that kind of indicated a slight brush.

 

Do these boats use EC6 or 3??

 

Most boats are on RAZR (FF's solid carbon option).

Solid carbon significantly lower diameter than ECsix so lot less drag and marginally lighter at the same time. Also easier to fix if needs be as it is "normal" pre-preg so you could grind back and splice in a repair relatively fast.

Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons.

Might have been rigging failure, but could also have been an unfortunate mix of rake/jack pressure/seastate/sailtrim that lead to a tube failure (lacking sideways stability) because of chasing fore/aft tube stiffness and sacrificing side wall thickness. Would be good to hear what the experts think was the order of failure after having inspected the boat and pieces, pretty sure reps from southernspars and futurefibres will have been on-site yesterday (with their base in Valencia and some based in Palma as well).

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22 hours ago, lostmydetailsagain said:

Most boats are on RAZR (FF's solid carbon option).

Solid carbon significantly lower diameter than ECsix so lot less drag and marginally lighter at the same time. Also easier to fix if needs be as it is "normal" pre-preg so you could grind back and splice in a repair relatively fast.

Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons.

Might have been rigging failure, but could also have been an unfortunate mix of rake/jack pressure/seastate/sailtrim that lead to a tube failure (lacking sideways stability) because of chasing fore/aft tube stiffness and sacrificing side wall thickness. Would be good to hear what the experts think was the order of failure after having inspected the boat and pieces, pretty sure reps from southernspars and futurefibres will have been on-site yesterday (with their base in Valencia and some based in Palma as well).

Thanks mate for the explanation will check out the FF site

 

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Looks like a lightning strike may have cut them out this morning right in the middle of Genny's commentary. Racing delayed 3 hours for now hoping the storms/front move through.

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3 hours ago, hhn92 said:

Looks like a lightning strike may have cut them out this morning right in the middle of Genny's commentary. Racing delayed 3 hours for now hoping the storms/front move through.

Lionheart (J-Class) was training out in the bay and was about 40knots of breeze... But worse, it was raining!

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On 8/26/2019 at 2:22 AM, lostmydetailsagain said:

Most boats are on RAZR (FF's solid carbon option).

Solid carbon significantly lower diameter than ECsix so lot less drag and marginally lighter at the same time. Also easier to fix if needs be as it is "normal" pre-preg so you could grind back and splice in a repair relatively fast.

Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons.

Might have been rigging failure, but could also have been an unfortunate mix of rake/jack pressure/seastate/sailtrim that lead to a tube failure (lacking sideways stability) because of chasing fore/aft tube stiffness and sacrificing side wall thickness. Would be good to hear what the experts think was the order of failure after having inspected the boat and pieces, pretty sure reps from southernspars and futurefibres will have been on-site yesterday (with their base in Valencia and some based in Palma as well).

From trying to freeze frame the video, it looks like the first motion was straight down, in column.  Then the tip went to leeward.  That could seem to mean compressive failure.  Which could be a whole lot more troublesome for the fleet as I believe all these rigs are similar Southern Spars high modulus tubes.  Pure speculation, but the loads on these boats are getting to be spectacularly high even in moderate breeze.

Time will tell.  

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2 hours ago, Left Shift said:

From trying to freeze frame the video, it looks like the first motion was straight down, in column.  Then the tip went to leeward.  That could seem to mean compressive failure.  Which could be a whole lot more troublesome for the fleet as I believe all these rigs are similar Southern Spars high modulus tubes.  Pure speculation, but the loads on these boats are getting to be spectacularly high even in moderate breeze.

Time will tell.  

If it failed in compression, I’d be inclined to think someone got a little out of hand with the mast jack. I can just see it now. Someone yelling down the hatch “give it ten more pounds.”  Reply from below, “10 more pumps, you got it boss!”  BOOM, crunch, splat. Then from down below....  “that’s 10, how’s it look?”  :D

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1 minute ago, Monkey said:

If it failed in compression, I’d be inclined to think someone got a little out of hand with the mast jack. I can just see it now. Someone yelling down the hatch “give it ten more pounds.”  Reply from below, “10 more pumps, you got it boss!”  BOOM, crunch, splat. Then from down below....  “that’s 10, how’s it look?”  :D

Possibly happen that way on my boat, but highly unlikely on theirs.  

Not much seat of the pants on those boats.  More likely the paid rigger/pumper is reading off a chart prepared by the spar builder and NA with the paid boat speed guy and the paid weather guy and the paid navigator and the paid driver discussing whether it should be two shims or three above base setting that day.   

So that adds to the puzzle.  

Rigging damage is much more likely, just seemed odd looking at that video.

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2 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Possibly happen that way on my boat, but highly unlikely on theirs.  

Not much seat of the pants on those boats.  More likely the paid rigger/pumper is reading off a chart prepared by the spar builder and NA with the paid boat speed guy and the paid weather guy and the paid navigator and the paid driver discussing whether it should be two shims or three above base setting that day.   

So that adds to the puzzle.  

Rigging damage is much more likely, just seemed odd looking at that video.

I know. I was just kidding around. 

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On 8/27/2019 at 5:10 PM, Left Shift said:

Possibly happen that way on my boat, but highly unlikely on theirs.  

Not much seat of the pants on those boats.  More likely the paid rigger/pumper is reading off a chart prepared by the spar builder and NA with the paid boat speed guy and the paid weather guy and the paid navigator and the paid driver discussing whether it should be two shims or three above base setting that day.   

So that adds to the puzzle.  

Rigging damage is much more likely, just seemed odd looking at that video.

And then the team went well over the chart prepared by the spar maker since that is much faster..... Series winner told us if we were not over the max, we were not racing upwind to win....

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Platoon sure tried to give it away today and Azzura was not doing much to help their cause either. Other than the opening win and a 2nd Q was never really in it. The Frenchy's did surprisingly well and could be on track to take a race or two along the way, not a bad effort by them at all.

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If Provezza doesn't drop the rig, it sure looks like they would have dominated.  They won the final five races and if you look at their average finish over those five and extrapolate, they would have won handily.  A lot of ifs, but when there, they sure seemed strong.  

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9 hours ago, Cal20sailor said:

If Provezza doesn't drop the rig, it sure looks like they would have dominated.  They won the final five races and if you look at their average finish over those five and extrapolate, they would have won handily.  A lot of ifs, but when there, they sure seemed strong.  

Hard to fault Nacho on the Bay of Palma

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Why do they have 2 weather marks and why is the such a long offset after that?

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2 hours ago, footlong said:

Why do they have 2 weather marks and why is the such a long offset after that?

Essentially, these boats are eggshells driven by highly talented but aggressive egos and the rules are trying to protect themselves from themselves.

These VERY expensive boats arrive in bunches at the weather mark at 9+ knots,  steered by helms and tacticians that play by inches, and the class doesn't want port tackers flying into tiny holes and causing last second rules battles.  Nor do they want people doing immediate jibe sets and getting spun up by later port tackers. 

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I wish that had used that years ago - the last place boat here was 25 feet short of rounding top 5, and had to sail way up into the zone at 9.5 knots with no out, so you see what the options were and teams would get antsy, and in subsequent races port trackers charged down in holes that were not there , second race in Portals that year, three port tackers got left of the mark and then crushed into the fleet locking rigs and such at the windward mark and one crashed through the starboard tacker on a very mistimed duck about 50 m down from the mark...I think this is an good addition.

E7C09E0D-B9FF-460B-B24C-8A5B99867420.jpeg

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5 hours ago, DHFiend said:

I wish that had used that years ago - the last place boat here was 25 feet short of rounding top 5, and had to sail way up into the zone at 9.5 knots with no out, so you see what the options were and teams would get antsy, and in subsequent races port trackers charged down in holes that were not there , second race in Portals that year, three port tackers got left of the mark and then crushed into the fleet locking rigs and such at the windward mark and one crashed through the starboard tacker on a very mistimed duck about 50 m down from the mark...I think this is an good addition.

 

Offset marks were commonly used 30yrs ago; not a new addition.  

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Yes offset mark (W O)have but the "Windward Inner" (W I) is reasonably new. Love the idea could work in radio controlled sailing.

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no comment on the racing, as always the boats interest me more. I love these things, they're like giant dinghies.

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3 hours ago, SloopJohnB said:

Yes offset mark (W O)have but the "Windward Inner" (W I) is reasonably new. Love the idea could work in radio controlled sailing.

I missed that, never mind.  

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Under AP here still in Porto Cervo, gusting 36 out there, so everyone's stewing ashore...lots of shit talking and tale telling. Coffee machines running at max capacity and us shore crew wanting to get the crews outta here for some peace and quiet. Standard Porto Cervo.

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Looks like it is scrubbed for today, got to work early so I would not miss anything while driving.

Will try again tomorrow...

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Sled is tearing it up, hope they hold-on to win the regatta. They have been much improved over this year's series.

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On 8/26/2019 at 11:22 AM, lostmydetailsagain said:

Most boats are on RAZR (FF's solid carbon option).

Solid carbon significantly lower diameter than ECsix so lot less drag and marginally lighter at the same time. Also easier to fix if needs be as it is "normal" pre-preg so you could grind back and splice in a repair relatively fast.

Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons.

Might have been rigging failure, but could also have been an unfortunate mix of rake/jack pressure/seastate/sailtrim that lead to a tube failure (lacking sideways stability) because of chasing fore/aft tube stiffness and sacrificing side wall thickness. Would be good to hear what the experts think was the order of failure after having inspected the boat and pieces, pretty sure reps from southernspars and futurefibres will have been on-site yesterday (with their base in Valencia and some based in Palma as well).

 

Thanks for the info.

RAZR does not appear on futurefibres website, it isn't a "standard" product ?

Also I don't quite understand below sentence :

"Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons."

A typo somewhere ? RAZR replaced by carbo-link rigging ?

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On 9/29/2019 at 10:49 AM, yl75 said:

 

Thanks for the info.

RAZR does not appear on futurefibres website, it isn't a "standard" product ?

Also I don't quite understand below sentence :

"Bit of a discussion last season with the RAZR being replaced when the carbo-link rigging unchanged on boats for couple of seasons."

A typo somewhere ? RAZR replaced by carbo-link rigging ?

RAZR had some issues and was replaced after the first regatta by a revised set of rigging (mostly like for like, some went to ec6). Paprec (ex-Ran) was after three or so years still running the original Carbo-Link rigging.

The RAZR stuff is upon request only and to qualify you need to provide information on the program and the maintenance you are willing to adhere to. The aero stuff is also not on the website.

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From Seahorse:

https://www.seahorsemagazine.com/current-issue/148-content/october-2019/803-twenty-years-on-and-still-king-of-the-hill

 

Wow, with the 20th anniversary maybe 20 boats next year, that is roughly 2/3 the number of boats they had in 2006/0708.... when the operating budgets started blowing by 900,000 euro is when they started having 8 boat fleets , so nice to see the fleet numbers maybe up but 20 but still not close to 28 current boats at one time the mid 2000s had.

 

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