dan_nixon

2019 52 SUPER SERIES

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Thanks again, Dan!

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thanks for coming back Dan!!

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12 hours ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Live racing for the last couple of days of the events?

Unfortunately we won’t have live racing in Mahon, only boat tracking through Virtual Eye. Live TV will start from the third day of Cadiz in June, then again from the third day in Cascais in July. We’ll have live TV for the full 5 days at the TP52 world championship in Portals in August, and the last event in Porto Cervo in September is still a question mark.

This year the  highlight clips will be a bit shorter and delivered on the same day as racing, from about 20:00 CEST onwards, instead of the morning after like we had in the past.

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Goddamn I didn't think those vids could get worse. I was wrong, they are literally unwatchable now, with all the cuts and strobing. I love your posts Dan, but whoever is cutting those clips needs a punch in the throat. 

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31 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Goddamn I didn't think those vids could get worse. I was wrong, they are literally unwatchable now, with all the cuts and strobing. I love your posts Dan, but whoever is cutting those clips needs a punch in the throat. 

Won't be viewing if they are like the above vid.  Alacatraz is correct.  Unwatchable and if you don't get migraines then you just might start having them after watching that.  The "best" sailors in the world do not need graphics on acid.

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I agree, pretty intense, need to back the throttle off a little on the cuts.

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14 minutes ago, hhn92 said:

I agree, pretty intense, need to back the throttle off a little on the cuts.

 

That's just supposed to be a promo teaser.  I agree with all of the comments, but the actual videos of the racing are nothing like that, and they are very well and professionally edited and laid out.

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57 minutes ago, billy backstay said:

 

That's just supposed to be a promo teaser.  I agree with all of the comments, but the actual videos of the racing are nothing like that, and they are very well and professionally edited and laid out.

I would figure that but you know creative minds....these days.  With all the "we need more viewers" undertones of fancy and eye catching sometimes goes in the opposite direction.

 

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Instead of all the cuts (that would give an epileptic a grand mal seizure) I would prefer something like a super slow motion clip of a complete douse and leeward mark rounding so I can watch what each individual crew member is doing.

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23 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Instead of all the cuts (that would give an epileptic a grand mal seizure) I would prefer something like a super slow motion clip of a complete douse and leeward mark rounding so I can watch what each individual crew member is doing.

Try this one, not slo-mo though:

 

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5 minutes ago, ~HHN92~ said:

Try this one, not slo-mo though:

 

Thanks, that is frickin' awesome. I will he to withhold beer from my crew until they can do that.

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11 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Thanks, that is frickin' awesome. I will he to withhold beer from my crew until they can do that.

All you have to do is gut the interior of your boat and buy spinnakers the way you buy lattes.

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9 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Goddamn I didn't think those vids could get worse. I was wrong, they are literally unwatchable now, with all the cuts and strobing. I love your posts Dan, but whoever is cutting those clips needs a punch in the throat. 

 

The new Volvo Ocean Race video is just like that, fast paced, nearly unwatchable.

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2 hours ago, billy backstay said:

 

The new Volvo Ocean Race video is just like that, fast paced, nearly unwatchable.

Maybe its a Euro thing?

 

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Looks like 2019 is going to be another repeat of 2018. Endless discussion about the coverage and no mention of the boats or sailing. 

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1 hour ago, Monkey said:

Looks like 2019 is going to be another repeat of 2018. Endless discussion about the coverage and no mention of the boats or sailing. 

OK, I'll bite. The jib sheeting angles seem to get even more impossibly narrow every year. Presumably there is a limit as sheeting angle cannot be zero. How close are they to theoretical/practical minimum? How much of the improvement is driven by sail shape, sail material, sail construction, keel or rudder shape, spar design or technique? Can a very talented mortal (for example, a top amateur Etchells helmsman) drive these things competitively upwind or is the groove so narrow you need to be a full time pro?

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What are the box rule changes for 2019, how many new boats in the water, how fragile are the stays on these boats, how are they transported between events?

 

 

Sorry I thought we were on a roll.

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1 hour ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

What are the box rule changes for 2019, how many new boats in the water, how fragile are the stays on these boats, how are they transported between events?

 

 

Sorry I thought we were on a roll.

Brononesec is the only new boat, all the other ones are 2018 or older. Seems like a 2 year cycle on new builds typically. I think the last tweak to the rule was 2016.

They are typically either wet sailed to the event if it is close or they load them all on a dedicated freighter.

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3 hours ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

What are the box rule changes for 2019, how many new boats in the water, how fragile are the stays on these boats, how are they transported between events?

 

 

Sorry I thought we were on a roll.

Not sure there were any specific box rule changes but most boats have added new keel bulbs - this seems to have been prompted by developments during the design of the new Brononesec.

Just the 1 new boat - as above

New rigging is pretty fragile to lateral torque and can't be rolled - main issues so far seem to be with storage once rig is dropped...

Apart from the current dash between Palma and Mahon the boats (plus chase RIBs) will shipped on a dedicated freighter which is managed by Peters and May. Pretty sure containers travel by road still...

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This seems like a good time to raise this question....

There doesn't appear to be much of a following of the TP52 series - chat on the forum last year was pretty limited when compared to the AC and F50 threads.  This class seems to offer quite a lot...

- one design/box rule meaning incredibly close and competitive racing

- steady coverage and reporting, much more than most fleets

- speeds/performance that, whilst not mind blowing, are higher than the vast majority of most sailors experiences

- 'regular' monohulls that aren't entirely removed from most peoples concept of yacht racing - this also allows clear comparison of maneuvers and teamwork which I think is a highly under-rated aspect of these teams (and under-used as a resource for broadcasting but let's not get lost down that rabbit hole just now...)

Thoughts..?

 

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3 hours ago, NZK said:

This seems like a good time to raise this question....

There doesn't appear to be much of a following of the TP52 series - chat on the forum last year was pretty limited when compared to the AC and F50 threads.  This class seems to offer quite a lot...

- one design/box rule meaning incredibly close and competitive racing

- steady coverage and reporting, much more than most fleets

- speeds/performance that, whilst not mind blowing, are higher than the vast majority of most sailors experiences

- 'regular' monohulls that aren't entirely removed from most peoples concept of yacht racing - this also allows clear comparison of maneuvers and teamwork which I think is a highly under-rated aspect of these teams (and under-used as a resource for broadcasting but let's not get lost down that rabbit hole just now...)

Thoughts..?

 

Last year's thread was pretty large, quite a number of pages with vids and pics submitted by Dan. (met him in Miami - good guy) Also a number of SA'ers report when they have the chance to attend one of the events. The video coverage has been improving every year compared to being spoiled by the old full MedCup programming. If there was a way to make on-site viewing more accessible it may drive the numbers better but it is an owner driven class so fills the needs of what they are looking for first, since they pay the bills. Some of the venues seem to be fairly restrictive in being accessible for travel and viewing. Miami was a good venue when the boats were near the beach you could view from the pier on the breakwater at Government Cut, the marina was open and available to walk the docks to see the boats and crews, then attend the prize giving. More venues like this, maybe one in Valencia for instance, would add a certain amount of fans attending the events. It is a pretty stripped-down regatta, Andy and the others were quite entertained that I got up at 4:00 am and made the drive down to Miami to view the event, and were quite accommodating with some time spent to speak with me and being able to hang with the video crew.

The boats and racing are some of the best out there outside of the match racing events like Cong Cup, Gouv Cup, etc., they keep them updated to enhance performance, tweaking the keels, etc. as noted to stay a step ahead of the competition. With their relating to what most of us sail vs what the AC is doing that is where my time and attention is going. Unfortunately the racing is mostly during work hours for me so I go home and watch the daily replays when they are broadcast.

 

Hope they keep it going.

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19 hours ago, hhn92 said:

Maybe its a Euro thing?

It's those itty bitty cups of coffee with a weeks worth of caffeine in each shot. To those tweeked-out Euros, that promo video is in slow motion.

P.S. That video is unwatchable. Worse, it conveys nothing.

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16 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

OK, I'll bite. The jib sheeting angles seem to get even more impossibly narrow every year. Presumably there is a limit as sheeting angle cannot be zero. How close are they to theoretical/practical minimum? How much of the improvement is driven by sail shape, sail material, sail construction, keel or rudder shape, spar design or technique? Can a very talented mortal (for example, a top amateur Etchells helmsman) drive these things competitively upwind or is the groove so narrow you need to be a full time pro?

4.5° seems to be the mortal limit.  Maybe 4.25° in perfect conditions.  

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22 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

OK, I'll bite. The jib sheeting angles seem to get even more impossibly narrow every year. Presumably there is a limit as sheeting angle cannot be zero. How close are they to theoretical/practical minimum? How much of the improvement is driven by sail shape, sail material, sail construction, keel or rudder shape, spar design or technique? Can a very talented mortal (for example, a top amateur Etchells helmsman) drive these things competitively upwind or is the groove so narrow you need to be a full time pro?

Platoon is full on owner-driver, and they do very well. Harm is a former Dragon World champ, I believe.

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I think the 52s are great and I wish the AC had gone in this direction albeit bigger. I must admit I mainly watch the highlights rather than the whole days racing. 

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I don’t know if any of you remember the STP65, but the rule was basically the TP52 scaled up to mini-maxi size. STP was Storm Trysail something I think. If I recall, only one was built (red hull?), and the rule was stillborn. 

Anyway, I think that would be the perfect AC boat for a large host of reasons. 

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I think there were more than one STP65 built. 

Rosebud, Luna Rossa, Container, pretty sure there was at least one more than I'm forgetting, Wizard maybe?

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15 minutes ago, Gorn FRANTIC!! said:

I think there were more than one STP65 built. 

Rosebud, Luna Rossa, Container, pretty sure there was at least one more than I'm forgetting, Wizard maybe?

Well done. Your memory cells must be better preserved than mine (admittedly a low bar). Do recall why the STP65 withered while the TP52 thrived?

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Taking a punt I would say that around the time the 65 was launched the 52s were just starting to kick into high gear with the Audi MedCup, so with an already established class and circuit focussed on a series of regattas in a rather nice region of the world, compared to a larger, more expensive boat with the focus presumably to be on offshore races rather than regattas I personally can see which would be more appealing.

But in saying that I'm fairly sure Rosebud went on a pretty successful world tour with the 65.

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Can't wait to see today's first race. Some new boats,  new Botin designs which have been matched by Judel Vrolick with keel and rudder upgrades etc. The Italians won yesterday's practice race but stopped short of sailing through the finish line due to superstition. Consistency is king. Something Quantum have done well. Looks like light conditions are forecasted although I don't have the official forecast? 

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On 5/16/2019 at 12:35 AM, SF Woody Sailor said:

Instead of all the cuts (that would give an epileptic a grand mal seizure) I would prefer something like a super slow motion clip of a complete douse and leeward mark rounding so I can watch what each individual crew member is doing.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/quantumracing/videos/?ref=page_internal

These guys post heaps of great videos, on-board from every angle, even 360 degree cams, drones, everything, I think I even watched a 360 degree onboard cam for a whole race, just a 30 minute long video, could watch the forward view of a manoeuvre, then rewind and watch it again but facing the crew.

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Couple of surprises in Race 1 - didn't follow the whole thing but looks like some teams got caught out on the wrong side of some shifts upwind. Brononosec taking the first bullet of 2019...

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Q seems off the pace today, hopefully they re-group and are better tomorrow. And my pal Tony on Gladiator, what's up with those guys?

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Here's the first instalment of our daily highlights. If you don't like the short sharp cuts I suggest you skip to 00:00:09. :-)

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Alcatraz5768 said:

Won't play for me. Bugger. 

Try this one? 

 

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Quantum will be disappointed with the first 2 races, lost their way in the light flukey conditions whilst the Italians proved they do well in this weather. Hopefully some more breeze for the next 2 races

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I was fortunate to sail this series a few summers in its old format, and ten years on while the competition is better now, I still miss seeing 24 of them coming into the first mark....

Great daily summary, thanks Dan.

 

 

 

Capture.PNG

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6 hours ago, ryley said:

Try this one? 

I had the same problem and you made it work.   Thanks!  I've had this problem with other videos (usually posted by Woody).  Can you explain what you did to 'fix' it?  Thanks, running MacBook with the latest OS.  

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21 minutes ago, Cal20sailor said:

I had the same problem and you made it work.   Thanks!  I've had this problem with other videos (usually posted by Woody).  Can you explain what you did to 'fix' it?  Thanks, running MacBook with the latest OS.  

The first vid posted was linked to Facebook, the second is from YouTube.

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Sled seem to be struggling in the light - they were putting some solid results in at Palma Vela. 

Super Series website says Langley has taken on the tactician role on Gladiator, seems a pretty big move when you look at who else is filling those boots in the fleet....

Looks like it'll be light and variable again today....

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I would like to see full race coverage, like the Star Sailors League does. Does not have to be live.  Its great to sit down and watch an hour of sailing competition.

Also enjoyed the few Terry Hutch / Quantum full race videos, would like to see more of those. 

 

The 52 owners wold probably like the full race videos also, and certainly have the pockets to fund it.  

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Well... absolutely nothing happened today – apart from a pretty impressive trawl of the marina floor – but as I'm a stickler for routine, here are today's "highlights".

 

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Bit more wind today - Azzura smoked another Bullet in Race 3 and have an 8 point gap to second place. Provezza have strung some good results together with a 3rd in Race 3 and currently leading the first beat in Race 4.

Rest of the fleet is more varied - Quantum struggling mid fleet but seem to be slowly improving and are hot on Provezza's heels as they round the windward mark....

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and...bam! quantum is leading. consistency seems to be a challenge.

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Is there a sense that a couple of boats get a bit more attention (slammed at every opportunity) than the rest (eg Quantum and Azzura)?

Cheers

Mex

 

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Great comeback by Quantum. Azzura looked like they would blow this away after Race 3? 

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1 bad race by Azzura, Q chipping away at it and all of a sudden things have changed. But the points are tight and anybody that gets hot could take it.

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7 hours ago, full circle said:

and...bam! quantum is leading. consistency seems to be a challenge.

Incredible but the maths don't lie. It was looking like with Hutch off Quantum they might struggle a bit to get their formula working? But kudos to Appleton and Baird for responding. We'll find out how good Azzura are at responding. Cutler has Provezza going well too proving the Judel Vrolick boats are just as quick. 

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52 minutes ago, Retired BN said:

Quantum just got another bullet.

 

Masterclass in boat speed and fleet management after a bit of a shocker off the line (and probably a little luck ;) )

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Watching their starts on the AP and two recalls, Quantum had great position from the beginning. It looked like they blew the start in the race that counted but played the shifts and boat speed game really well. Pretty much everyone's been bounced around this week though.

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It seems like the two JV designed boats could have a slight speed advantage over the rest of the fleet!

Sometimes I wonder how nice it would be if the AC would use similar boats(and budgets)!  20-30 52's in a fleet race to qualify for the match racing :rolleyes:

 

 

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Great result for Judel Vrolick, John Kostecki and John Cutler. JV made changes to their boats to counter Botin's latest boat, great result for them in such a competitive fleet. It's good to see someone else at the top of the leaderboard too. 

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^ Fast enough to win the least few series championships, the last few worlds (on Platoon as well) and the event this weekend (2 of top 3).....

 

 

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3 hours ago, DHFiend said:

^ Fast enough to win the least few series championships, the last few worlds (on Platoon as well) and the event this weekend (2 of top 3).....

 

 

I don't think it is either secret or insightful that Quantum does well, but that wasn't the question I asked.

Let me try again: the draft on the main in this photo looks very far forward (30%?). That seems further forward than one might want it for off-the-breeze in mid range wind (40-45%?). Is this intentional? Are the sails built with the draft so far forward because the sheeting angles on the jibs are so narrow? Are the materials so non-stretchy that cunningham tension doesn't move the draft very much?

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Thanks for the videos Dan.

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On 5/16/2019 at 3:18 PM, NZK said:

Not sure there were any specific box rule changes but most boats have added new keel bulbs - this seems to have been prompted by developments during the design of the new Brononesec.

Just the 1 new boat - as above

New rigging is pretty fragile to lateral torque and can't be rolled - main issues so far seem to be with storage once rig is dropped...

Apart from the current dash between Palma and Mahon the boats (plus chase RIBs) will shipped on a dedicated freighter which is managed by Peters and May. Pretty sure containers travel by road still...

Ship will load Containers, Chase boats and Yachts/Cradles in Mahon on Tuesday to go direct to Cadiz/Porto Sherry for the next event. Only Gladiator (bow 4) and The Phoenix (bow 12) will miss the Atlantic events due to other commitments.

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On 5/25/2019 at 2:04 PM, SF Woody Sailor said:

image.thumb.png.5f09e84c8ade56201a67e77617068a87.png

Is this mainsail shape actually fast? It seems as if the draft is very far forward. Nice leech exit though.

 

Downwind shape.  But not really about the main, but getting the rig forward.  I would guess the forestay is on pretty hard, the deflector pulled on and the D-1/D-2 are holding the middle of the mast back.  

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On 5/25/2019 at 5:04 PM, SF Woody Sailor said:

image.thumb.png.5f09e84c8ade56201a67e77617068a87.png

Is this mainsail shape actually fast? It seems as if the draft is very far forward. Nice leech exit though.

 

 

Looks to me like a perfect airfoil shape, like a planes wings??

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Here's a longer wrap up with some new content. Looking forward to the live tv from day 3 in Cadiz!

 

. B

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Thanks Dan - I think this is a really good vid, particularly with a bit more insight into the teams themselves and new members for 2019.....

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Nice to see them addressing the plastics, this first sunk in for me a decade back at the old series.

15-18 guys on the boats and tender, plus guests, plus event staff

Times 3 to 4 1500 and 500 ML bottles of water on average per day per person sailing...

Times 7 (event days plus practice) days

Times 5 events + Worlds

Times 24 boats on the circuit  (on average 18-20 per event)...

The range could be around roughly 54,000 plastic bottles for the 2006 or 07 series, not including shore event single use plastic bottles at the tents post race...  

You can argue the number but I remember having pallets of those 1500ML bottles stacked high in the container and all of that going right in the recycling/garbage every day after the days racing. 

Glad to see we are working to move on from that...

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47 minutes ago, dan_nixon said:

We'll have live racing from day 3 in Puerto Sherry! I expect to see some of you there in the comments section :)

Today's presser: http://bit.ly/2FcwCCe

Can you be a bit more specific about when the live racing starts and what the schedule is? GMT times would be great for those of us on wonky times!

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On 6/14/2019 at 2:11 PM, Terrorvision said:

Can you be a bit more specific about when the live racing starts and what the schedule is? GMT times would be great for those of us on wonky times!

Racing starts at 13:00 CEST each day (GMT+2) and the daily intro starts 15 minutes before racing. If there's a delay, we normally delay the intro, but we will start the broadcast with a holding screen. Best to check twitter for detailed updates. The schedule is windward-leewards every day, normally going for two races per day (maximum two races on the last day – there can be no race start after 15:00 CEST).

You'll find the event sailing instructions with more info here:

https://www.transpac52.org/home/ONB.html

 

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