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hasher

Plastic on remote islands

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1 hour ago, hasher said:

That's terrible - and while recycling/eliminating new waste is something we should strive for - I'd be interested in hearing ideas about how to best clean up this mess. 

 

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1 hour ago, A guy in the Chesapeake said:

That's terrible - and while recycling/eliminating new waste is something we should strive for - I'd be interested in hearing ideas about how to best clean up this mess. 

 

Ocean Conservancy’s 2017 International Coastal Cleanup, the nonprofit environmental group reported that volunteers picked up enough plastic bottles to fill five standard swimming pools and enough straws to reach the height of more than 10,000 palm trees.  From the same link.

Clean-up is beginning but sort of useless without changing behaviors.

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From what I have read the bulk of it comes from the far East, not from "civilized" places like here. :ph34r:

I've never seen anything remotely like this here.

image.png.413f672b5d0b095c13d8bb4d0e912e26.png

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9 minutes ago, SloopJonB said:

From what I have read the bulk of it comes from the far East, not from "civilized" places like here. :ph34r:

I've never seen anything remotely like this here.

image.png.413f672b5d0b095c13d8bb4d0e912e26.png

Ocean currents carry the stuff everywhere. I think a fair bit of it is probably from us, but it's also true that less-wealthy countries are far less interested in happy-face environmental practices.

Some years ago, my wife and I went on a trip to Indonesia. The Pacific currents sweep thru some of the island, and two beaches in particular collected an astonishing amount of floating plastic trash. Must have been a couple million pairs of worn-out flip-flops, and even more thrown-away Barbies, among other things.

And that's probably a small percentage of the amount going into the ocean, the rest of it sinks and chokes the ecosystem. Here in NC, we are getting dead dolphins washed ashore that have stomachs full of plastic and have starved to death.

FB-Doug

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7 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Ocean currents carry the stuff everywhere. I think a fair bit of it is probably from us, but it's also true that less-wealthy countries are far less interested in happy-face environmental practices.

Some years ago, my wife and I went on a trip to Indonesia. The Pacific currents sweep thru some of the island, and two beaches in particular collected an astonishing amount of floating plastic trash. Must have been a couple million pairs of worn-out flip-flops, and even more thrown-away Barbies, among other things.

And that's probably a small percentage of the amount going into the ocean, the rest of it sinks and chokes the ecosystem. Here in NC, we are getting dead dolphins washed ashore that have stomachs full of plastic and have starved to death.

FB-Doug

Humans and evolution. Nature will prevail. Ugh.

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51 minutes ago, fastyacht said:

Humans and evolution. Nature will prevail. Ugh.

My thought is..... as we lose anti-biotics, the human race will begin to see the waves of historic plagues again. Meanwhile some bacteria is evolving, even as we type, that will eat plastic.

Including our new house's impenetrable decking, vinyl siding, electric wire insulation, car bumpers, etc etc etc.

FB- Doug

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50 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

 Meanwhile some bacteria is evolving, even as we type, that will eat plastic.

Including our new house's impenetrable decking, vinyl siding, electric wire insulation, car bumpers, etc etc etc.

FB- Doug

Ever wonder what happens to all the rubber that wears off millions of tires, which would otherwise develop into piles all along the sides of the road? 

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1 hour ago, PaulK said:

Ever wonder what happens to all the rubber that wears off millions of tires, which would otherwise develop into piles all along the sides of the road? 

Good point.

with tyres, 40% by weight is oil;

the carbon black becomes loose "nanoparticles;"

the cis-isoprene biodegrades with the aid of sunlight;

the SBR particles become "inert" and ultimately end up in the flesh of giant tuna or something...

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

From what I have read the bulk of it comes from the far East, not from "civilized" places like here. :ph34r:

I've never seen anything remotely like this here.

image.png.413f672b5d0b095c13d8bb4d0e912e26.png

There are places that look like that in many countries and continents.  I've seen similar in several African countries - and those folks are so generally so poor and desperate that I question their ability, even if they had the desire, to make any significant changes.  That said - what can the rest of us do to try to minimize what gets dumped in the future, and start cleaning up what's already out there?    

I don't know enough about the real magnitude of this problem and the myriad contributing factors to even begin forming the outline of a solution. 

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Remote Island vacation plastic bottles washed up everywhere on the beach and tide- line, in an otherwise paradise.... it was a total downer, most entirely made up of empty water bottles- which floated from who knows where ( check the currents ) It was at that point I decided never to buy water in a plastic bottle again.

The island didn't sell anything in plastic bottles so they were simply the victims of the 1st worlds production. Solution is to develop a biodegradable plastic or an easier/cheaper  to recycle/produce material. Not a simple thing.

   I still admire Alfred Heineken, while on vacation noticed a similar problem with Heineken and other bottles  washing up on the nice beach. So he promoted the use of a "stackable" brick-like-bottle which could be used to build houses - In 1961 the idea never really took off, prototypes were successful. John Habracken was the designer who worked with the factory to develop the unique bottle.

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22 minutes ago, 3to1 said:

it's everywhere, it's at 25,000+ feet on mountains and at the bottoms of deep ocean trenches. it's heart breaking what it does to innocent animals, especially marine life.

We certainly could require environmental responsibility as well as livable wages to be part of any trade agreement we enter into.  We can also disallow exploitative practices from your own corporations where ever they operate.  We already punish them for bribing foreign officials.  Theoretically, we punish money laundering.

It takes an informed and committed populace, all across the world. 

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4 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

From what I have read the bulk of it comes from the far East, not from "civilized" places like here. :ph34r:

I've never seen anything remotely like this here.

image.png.413f672b5d0b095c13d8bb4d0e912e26.png

fort McHenry in Baltimore... and the inner harbor/ of course Baltimore isn't exactly civilized...  not quite as bad as your picture.  but   still a bit disheartening...

mchenrybefore2jpg.jpg

930_0385.jpg

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4 hours ago, Steam Flyer said:

My thought is..... as we lose anti-biotics, the human race will begin to see the waves of historic plagues again. Meanwhile some bacteria is evolving, even as we type, that will eat plastic.

Including our new house's impenetrable decking, vinyl siding, electric wire insulation, car bumpers, etc etc etc.

FB- Doug

And our boats! :o

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It starts with our own practices. eliminating one use plastic containers, don't get take out in plastic, try not to buy plastic packaged products, reuse and bring your own bags to the market, bring your own mug to the coffee shop, never buy plastic bottled water, small things can add up .  Yes it can be a pain in the ass but it seems to me we are at a critical threshold where everyone needs to immediately start taking small steps to reduce our plastic consumption and demand.  Take control of what you can and don't look around to compare. We need to be the example.

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We DO need to be the example, though as much as we should modify our use of plastics and packaging on a personal level, so much of the blame for this has to be on the manufacturers and supermarkets, seemingly forcing us to use plastic and packaging for just about everything. We need "them" to take the lead too, not just the consumer, there are alternatives. Hemp for one... Or no packaging!!

It makes my blood boil at how much unnecessary plastic is in my shopping basket, no matter how hard we try to avoid it. We don't need (and I don't buy) fruit & veg displayed on a Styrofoam platter, wrapped in plastic. Sure it's easy to promote a product that looks good, but at what cost??

I guess people power modifying behaviour has to be the main driver unfortunately.

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On 5/22/2019 at 10:03 AM, SloopJonB said:

From what I have read the bulk of it comes from the far East, not from "civilized" places like here. :ph34r:

I've never seen anything remotely like this here.

image.png.413f672b5d0b095c13d8bb4d0e912e26.png

I think a fairly good example would be Lake Michigan surrounded by 4 U.S. States.  Yes there is trash on the surface. No it is not in abundance.  It's the plastic toys that blow away from the kids on the beach, many mylar ballons, no straws, rarely a plastic bottle.  On those days where a huge wind comes through Chicago (from West to East) you can watch the street garbage getting blown in good quantities into the harbor and water front.  Those days are rare.

I've dove the lakefront out 5 miles.  There's a lot of pop/beer cans scattered across the bottom, older steel ones from the days that dumping wasn't considered a bad thing.  I came across a pile that someone dumped 5 miles out, it included two tricycles, yes two.  And of course there are the wrecks, and masts people broke and tossed over the side.  Can't say this practice has stopped.

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Narrated by Academy Award-winner Jeremy Irons, this "mockumentary" video, hammers home the stark reality of California's plastic bag pollution situation.

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Its not just "incidental" garbage.  The Navy is planning to dump 20,000 TONS of "environmental Stressors" explosives, heavy metals, etc in the ocean off the Pacific NW.   I happened to get this in my in box today.  I commented, recommending a change of dump zone to just off Mar el Lago.

US Navy planning dump in our coastal waters

This requires so much more than just commenting in an online form, but please read this and consider doing just that. I cannot fathom that the US Navy is planning to do this our coastal waters. ACTION ALERT: Public Comment Period Understanding the true and continuing cost of war, and producing and testing weapons: Last November, the U.S. Navy announced its plan to release 20,000 tons of environmental “stressors,” including heavy metals and explosives, into the coastal waters of the U.S. Pacific Northwest over the course of this year. https://www.nwtteis.com/DocumentsandReferences/-NWTTDocuments/FinalEISOEIS?fbclid=IwAR3uRqs3HOviVkidMEWpmGQGs5VPzeLCt8VF0UfW0egc9e9zCQZG8556T5I You can comment until June 12 here, telling them not to release heavy metals and depleted uranium into the Puget Sound or any oceans. To read their unwieldy document, download Vol 2 and then Ctrl-F 'stressors" https://www.nwtteis.com/Documents/2019-Northwest-Training-and-Testing-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS-Documents/Draft-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS

 
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2 minutes ago, eric1207 said:

US Navy is planning to do this our coastal waters

sadly water has no respect for the boundary between your coastal waters and our oceans .

Memo : US Navy  > FUCK YOU .

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16 hours ago, B dock said:

It starts with our own practices. eliminating one use plastic containers, don't get take out in plastic, try not to buy plastic packaged products, reuse and bring your own bags to the market, bring your own mug to the coffee shop, never buy plastic bottled water, small things can add up .  Yes it can be a pain in the ass but it seems to me we are at a critical threshold where everyone needs to immediately start taking small steps to reduce our plastic consumption and demand.  Take control of what you can and don't look around to compare. We need to be the example.

Have fewer or no kids.

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16 hours ago, bgytr said:

Have fewer or no kids.

But do so with a minimum of condoms, which can have a pretty disturbingly long half-life floating in aquatic environs. Yech.

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This is as good as thread as any to wish..

   Happy Birthday Bob Dylan!

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On 5/22/2019 at 9:06 PM, Kraftwerk said:

they were simply the victims of the 1st worlds production

First world? I don't think so...

12211_b.jpg

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On 5/24/2019 at 7:32 AM, eric1207 said:

Its not just "incidental" garbage.  The Navy is planning to dump 20,000 TONS of "environmental Stressors" explosives, heavy metals, etc in the ocean off the Pacific NW.   I happened to get this in my in box today.  I commented, recommending a change of dump zone to just off Mar el Lago.

US Navy planning dump in our coastal waters

This requires so much more than just commenting in an online form, but please read this and consider doing just that. I cannot fathom that the US Navy is planning to do this our coastal waters. ACTION ALERT: Public Comment Period Understanding the true and continuing cost of war, and producing and testing weapons: Last November, the U.S. Navy announced its plan to release 20,000 tons of environmental “stressors,” including heavy metals and explosives, into the coastal waters of the U.S. Pacific Northwest over the course of this year. https://www.nwtteis.com/DocumentsandReferences/-NWTTDocuments/FinalEISOEIS?fbclid=IwAR3uRqs3HOviVkidMEWpmGQGs5VPzeLCt8VF0UfW0egc9e9zCQZG8556T5I You can comment until June 12 here, telling them not to release heavy metals and depleted uranium into the Puget Sound or any oceans. To read their unwieldy document, download Vol 2 and then Ctrl-F 'stressors" https://www.nwtteis.com/Documents/2019-Northwest-Training-and-Testing-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS-Documents/Draft-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS

 

That’s truly fucked up, surely if a private corporation tried this they’d be in the courts and fined millions $$$ 

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This may have been mentioned elsewhere on  these forums, but still worth repeating here:

https://www.albatrossthefilm.com/watch-albatross

Very good - but sad - watch. Really helps 'set the anchor' in those of us considering or actively trying to change our behaviour. Pass the link on to your friends and enemies alike.

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On 5/24/2019 at 2:37 AM, Mid said:
On 5/24/2019 at 2:32 AM, eric1207 said:

US Navy is planning to do this our coastal waters

sadly water has no respect for the boundary between your coastal waters and our oceans .

Memo : US Navy  > FUCK YOU .

I think they're viewing this as a solution to the problems with their new Littoral Combat Ships (which was a fuckin' stupid idea from the start). Since these ships will not be able to sustain fleet or individual combat roles, filling the ocean with trash will fill the area-denial role for them and it will also make it harder for them to sink.

FB- Doug

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On 5/23/2019 at 11:32 PM, eric1207 said:

Its not just "incidental" garbage.  The Navy is planning to dump 20,000 TONS of "environmental Stressors" explosives, heavy metals, etc in the ocean off the Pacific NW.   I happened to get this in my in box today.  I commented, recommending a change of dump zone to just off Mar el Lago.

US Navy planning dump in our coastal waters

This requires so much more than just commenting in an online form, but please read this and consider doing just that. I cannot fathom that the US Navy is planning to do this our coastal waters. ACTION ALERT: Public Comment Period Understanding the true and continuing cost of war, and producing and testing weapons: Last November, the U.S. Navy announced its plan to release 20,000 tons of environmental “stressors,” including heavy metals and explosives, into the coastal waters of the U.S. Pacific Northwest over the course of this year. https://www.nwtteis.com/DocumentsandReferences/-NWTTDocuments/FinalEISOEIS?fbclid=IwAR3uRqs3HOviVkidMEWpmGQGs5VPzeLCt8VF0UfW0egc9e9zCQZG8556T5I You can comment until June 12 here, telling them not to release heavy metals and depleted uranium into the Puget Sound or any oceans. To read their unwieldy document, download Vol 2 and then Ctrl-F 'stressors" https://www.nwtteis.com/Documents/2019-Northwest-Training-and-Testing-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS-Documents/Draft-Supplemental-EIS-OEIS

 

JFC, now there's your 'treasonous act'. That's far beyond heinous, all the evil filth who'd be responsible for this atrocity should be tortured and then ground up for dog food. Time to head to their clusterfuck 'comments' page and give some input as a 'concerned citizen'.

If it's going to be like this, then fuck the military into oblivion, and fuck the cuntry it represents. But fuck it anyway.

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10 hours ago, mad said:

That’s truly fucked up, surely if a private corporation tried this they’d be in the courts and fined millions $$$ 

double standards don't apply. really.

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On 5/23/2019 at 10:44 PM, Mid said:

Narrated by Academy Award-winner Jeremy Irons, this "mockumentary" video, hammers home the stark reality of California's plastic bag pollution situation.

can't go wrong with Jeremy Irons.

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On 5/24/2019 at 9:14 AM, bgytr said:

Have fewer or no kids.

So who gets to take himself out of the gene pool?

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On 5/22/2019 at 12:26 PM, Marcjsmith said:

fort McHenry in Baltimore... and the inner harbor/ of course Baltimore isn't exactly civilized...  not quite as bad as your picture.  but   still a bit disheartening...

mchenrybefore2jpg.jpg

930_0385.jpg

Not sure if you guys the the CRV like we have out here in Kali. CRV is  the (California) Recycle Value, that we pay when we purchase some items in plastic bottles. When you return it to a recycle center they weight it and give you cash.

When I take all my water and soda bottles and aluminum I get my money back that I paid at the store. It really adds up and I know it helps people to stop from tossing it out.

The big issue we have in our Santa Clara River is the Homeless encampments. The local cities raze them and get literally tons of junk and trash. One encampment had a c little trash city of 32 tons that could have washed out to the ocean if we had a big rain. Civilized people put junk in the trash and the rif raf take it out and collect it.

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Mylar balloons.  Seeing them more and more, way offshore en route to Bermuda, Halifax, and boat-hooked a few on the Figawi return last weekend.

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