Michael L.

Melges 24 Single Handed

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I had a Beneteau 210 for many years and was sailing her under a fresh breeze single handed without much hussle.

Considering moving to Melges 24 and seems like they are:

- Sensitive even to moderate winds without a full crew on the rail;

- Requires at least two people.

What can be done to make Melges 24 suitable for keeping her on the water all the time and single-handed sailing under up to 20-25 knots of wind?

So far in my list:

- Two more winches;

- Epoxy water protection;

- 2/3 reefing lines;

- Full railings and jacklines.

Any alternatives to Melges 24 with a similar performance that are more suitable for single-handed sailing?

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Been there, done that. It’s a blast. Grab a battery and an autopilot, tighten rig early, have fun!

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Sounds like a dumb idea... That boat does not fit the purpose.. sure it's doable in light winds, but converting a m24 to a singlehander across the windrange is never going to be feasible, IMHO.

You might get away with a smaller jib, and some more weight in the bulb.. but reefing the main, will be bad news for the mast....

 

Find a boat that fits your purpose more.

I love my Melges24, but it doesn't really sail without at least 2..

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7 hours ago, ss123 said:

Your'e on the West Coast - Moore 24. Don't bastardize a Melges.

I concur.

Moore 24 - numerous TransPacs and Pac cups, singled handed to full crew, and one that just finished an around the world single hand.    Going around the world in one takes a special person, but much more solid boat/rig to single hand in most weather conditions.

- Stumbling

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7 hours ago, JxD said:

Sounds like a dumb idea... That boat does not fit the purpose.. sure it's doable in light winds, but converting a m24 to a singlehander across the windrange is never going to be feasible, IMHO.

You might get away with a smaller jib, and some more weight in the bulb.. but reefing the main, will be bad news for the mast....

 

Find a boat that fits your purpose more.

I love my Melges24, but it doesn't really sail without at least 2..

My goal is to validate how dumb this idea is...

What do you think is the wind range that Melges can handle without pushing it too far?

How well does Melges handle partially furled jib? 

Extra weight on the bulb is out of question - that would throw away all the stress analysis of the design.

What do you think would be the implications on the mast of reefing the main? (No plans to drill it).

Any thoughts about a boat that would fit my purpose? (Besides minitransacts

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5 hours ago, stumblingthunder said:

I concur.

Moore 24 - numerous TransPacs and Pac cups, singled handed to full crew, and one that just finished an around the world single hand.    Going around the world in one takes a special person, but much more solid boat/rig to single hand in most weather conditions.

- Stumbling

Do you know what did they add to the rig and the boat?

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14 hours ago, airacer said:

Been there, done that. It’s a blast. Grab a battery and an autopilot, tighten rig early, have fun!

Which autopilot did you use?

i was very happy with Autohrlm 1000

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I own two Melges, one light air one heavy air venues.  Pretty much loves lots crew in all conditions.  Solo? Sure under 7-8mph.  Double in 9-12 and Triple in 13+.  Class rules require 3 minimum to show up on a class regatta start line, for good reason.  Any of the 80s ULDB are better candidates: Olson 25, Moore 24, Shock Wavelenth 24, etc.

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If you plan to travel and do cool lakes, etc I would even consider something 18-20' range: Ultimate 20, Seascape/Benne 18, etc.  With these boats you can step/unstep rig and launch/retrieve solo.  Anything larger that 22 gets problematic quickly.  Also retractable keel a must on trailering.

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8 minutes ago, Michael L. said:

My goal is to validate how dumb this idea is...

What do you think is the wind range that Melges can handle without pushing it too far?

How well does Melges handle partially furled jib? 

Extra weight on the bulb is out of question - that would throw away all the stress analysis of the design.

What do you think would be the implications on the mast of reefing the main? (No plans to drill it).

Any thoughts about a boat that would fit my purpose? (Besides minitransacts

You would be overpowered in 8-10 knots... 

Have no idea how a melges would perform with a half furled jib.. you would need a specialmade jib for that purpose..

When you reef a mainsail you move the pressure further down the mast . This creating force somewhere on the tube, that wasn't designed for it .. 

So putting in a reef might be easier for you, but harder an unsupported part of the mast.

I agree, regarding the stress analysis, but I don't see any other viable solution to not having meat on the rail.. waterballast maybe..

 

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P Sage advice from many posters here....A Melges 24 really does need bodies on the rail, and there are many more suitable small boats for single handing.

But  if you really must use a Melges, get in touch with Team Educated Guess who have just completed R2AK with 4 crew.

Some of their ideas may be helpful to you, including trapezes and a siding helmsman’s seat for more righting moment , and mainsail reefing.....

https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-educated-guess/

Team Barbarossa tried to do the same race two up but retired. They must be worth talking to as well:

https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-barbarossa/

 

153FB563-8B3A-4B12-A4DF-848067994A55.jpeg

PS the image above was From Stage 1 of the race from Port Townsend to Victoria.....

Edited by Sidecar

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23 minutes ago, JimBowie said:

I own two Melges, one light air one heavy air venues.  Pretty much loves lots crew in all conditions.  Solo? Sure under 7-8mph.  Double in 9-12 and Triple in 13+.  Class rules require 3 minimum to show up on a class regatta start line, for good reason.  Any of the 80s ULDB are better candidates: Olson 25, Moore 24, Shock Wavelenth 24, etc.

Thank you, Jim. Did you go with the winds 20+? I live on Juan de Fuca and the winds build up very fast sometimes... What is the gust tolerance? How does Melges handle choppy conditions?

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22 minutes ago, Sidecar said:

 Sage advice from many posters here....A Melges 24 really does need bodies on the rail, and there are many more suitable small boats for single handing.

But  if you really must use a Melges, get in touch with Team Educated Guess who have just completed R2AK with 4 crew.

Some of their ideas may be helpful to you, including trapezes and a siding helmsman’s seat for more righting moment , and mainsail reefing.....

https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-educated-guess/

Team Barbarossa tried to do the same race two up but retired. They must be worth talking to as well:

https://r2ak.com/2019-teams-full-race/team-barbarossa/

 

Thanks a lot.

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I single hand my J80 in up to 15knots with the spinnaker and no autohelm. I have single handed it in the 20s with the jib. Up above that it’s main only but still doing 10knots down big waves. Close to the same size boat but fixed keel hard to launch yourself so you would need a mooring, or a marina that would crane it off the trailer everyday. Not really a lake boat.

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42 minutes ago, Michael L. said:

How well does Melges handle partially furled jib? 

birdcage.jpg?format=2500w

The Melges 24 doesn’t have a foil furler, it twists the head stay wire.  It is meant to be fully in or fully out, do it wrong and the head stay wire “birdcages”.

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30 minutes ago, JxD said:

You would be overpowered in 8-10 knots... 

Have no idea how a melges would perform with a half furled jib.. you would need a specialmade jib for that purpose..

When you reef a mainsail you move the pressure further down the mast . This creating force somewhere on the tube, that wasn't designed for it .. 

So putting in a reef might be easier for you, but harder an unsupported part of the mast.

I agree, regarding the stress analysis, but I don't see any other viable solution to not having meat on the rail.. waterballast maybe..

 

Good point about lowering a center of applied force: my concern is that with a roach that big even with two reefs it might damage the mast foot. Especially on a gust or on the choppy waves. Had this wonderful experience in the past...

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4 minutes ago, silent bob said:

birdcage.jpg?format=2500w

The Melges 24 doesn’t have a foil furler, it twists the head stay wire.  It is meant to be fully in or fully out, do it wrong and the head stay wire “birdcages”.

Thank you, Bob.

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7 minutes ago, Michael L. said:

Good point about lowering a center of applied force: my concern is that with a roach that big even with two reefs it might damage the mast foot. Especially on a gust or on the choppy waves. Had this wonderful experience in the past...

Agreed, it's a handful... 

It handles chop okay for a flatbottomed boat of its size... But only when hiked flat.. heeled over it sucks..

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9 minutes ago, Cape_taco12 said:

I single hand my J80 in up to 15knots with the spinnaker and no autohelm. I have single handed it in the 20s with the jib. Up above that it’s main only but still doing 10knots down big waves. Close to the same size boat but fixed keel hard to launch yourself so you would need a mooring, or a marina that would crane it off the trailer everyday. Not really a lake boat.

My experience with Beneteau 210 is similar.

Seems like Melges 24 is not good for a safe single-handed sailing under 20+ winds by the hull/rig design even with some additions.

Best boat for a club racing, though.

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6 minutes ago, Michael L. said:

My experience with Beneteau 210 is similar.

Seems like Melges 24 is not good for a safe single-handed sailing under 20+ winds by the hull/rig design even with some additions.

Best boat for a club racing, though.

J80

S.A./Disp.: 26.66

Bal./Disp.: 48.28

M24

S.A./Disp.: 32.13

Bal./Disp.: 37.14

From sailboatdata

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Another issue is length of cockpit. All controls and halyards are at front of cockpit. Lead them aft. Water ballast would be required, we start depowering rig at 10kn. It's also too easy to fall off of the back. 

 

If you want a powered up singlehander a Olson 30 would be better choice. It already has much of what you would need to put on a melges. 

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1 hour ago, Michael L. said:

Do you know what did they add to the rig and the boat?

That is probably in his journal.   I am a Gulf coaster, so no first person experience.

- Stumbling

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3 hours ago, Michael L. said:

Thank you, Jim. Did you go with the winds 20+? I live on Juan de Fuca and the winds build up very fast sometimes... What is the gust tolerance? How does Melges handle choppy conditions?

Sure, but that would require 4+ 200# peeps.  If you sailing in open seas like Juan Gonna Fuck Ya, I'd get a much larger boat, like J80 or Olson 30 with bolted on keel.  The stunt pulled by the two Melges teams is fine inside a passage with multiple crew and people worldwide tracking every move.  Heading out into the Strates of John solo in a Melges 24 is pretty much death wish that will come true one day.

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3 hours ago, Irish River said:

Another issue is length of cockpit. All controls and halyards are at front of cockpit. Lead them aft. Water ballast would be required, we start depowering rig at 10kn. It's also too easy to fall off of the back. 

 

If you want a powered up singlehander a Olson 30 would be better choice. It already has much of what you would need to put on a melges. 

Thank you for your thoughts - will take a look at the Olson 30.

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3 hours ago, Irish River said:

Another issue is length of cockpit. All controls and halyards are at front of cockpit. Lead them aft. Water ballast would be required, we start depowering rig at 10kn. It's also too easy to fall off of the back. 

 

If you want a powered up singlehander a Olson 30 would be better choice. It already has much of what you would need to put on a melges. 

 

4 hours ago, JxD said:

J80

S.A./Disp.: 26.66

Bal./Disp.: 48.28

M24

S.A./Disp.: 32.13

Bal./Disp.: 37.14

From sailboatdata

Good point.

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5 hours ago, Michael L. said:

My experience with Beneteau 210 is similar.

Seems like Melges 24 is not good for a safe single-handed sailing under 20+ winds by the hull/rig design even with some additions.

 

2 hours ago, JimBowie said:

.....If you sailing in open seas like Juan Gonna Fuck Ya, I'd get a much larger boat, like J80 or Olson 30 with bolted on keel.  The stunt pulled by the two Melges teams is fine inside a passage with multiple crew and people worldwide tracking every move.  Heading out into the Strates of John solo in a Melges 24 is pretty much death wish that will come true one day.

I used to race Melges 24s and also (offshore) race and cruise single handed a Beneteau 27.7. No way would/could I singlehand a Melges 24 in more than 10 knots of wind. The 27.7, I could pretty much go anywhere and do anything, and lots more room below as well.

The point of referring you to the R2AK Melges crews was if the posters here couldn’t talk you out of it, I am sure the R2AKers would, if you hadn’t come to your own realisation by then.

The image I posted above is self evident. A reefed Melges with 3 crew on traps and the helm on a sliding seat sailing across the straits in 25+ knots of wind....... how do you match that singlehanded?

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1 hour ago, Sidecar said:

 

I used to race Melges 24s and also (offshore) race and cruise single handed a Beneteau 27.7. No way would/could I singlehand a Melges 24 in more than 10 knots of wind. The 27.7, I could pretty much go anywhere and do anything, and lots more room below as well.

The point of referring you to the R2AK Melges crews was if the posters here couldn’t talk you out of it, I am sure the R2AKers would, if you hadn’t come to your own realisation by then.

The image I posted above is self evident. A reefed Melges with 3 crew on traps and the helm on a sliding seat sailing across the straits in 25+ knots of wind....... how do you match that singlehanded?

Without over dramatizing - it is way worse than open seas sometimes: was sailing in coastal waters of Nova Scotia off the shore visibility with no problem on my Beneteau First 210 for about seven years. My wife loved a fresh breeze and an ocean swell in NS. She gave up sailing after moving to Victoria - getting sick from choppy waves and gusting winds. Sometimes it is very sweet even in the middle of the straight. Sometimes it is a complete madness here with the gusting winds that veering and clashing currents up to 5/6 knots. Gave up Swiftsure last time when the wind reached 24kn and continued building up. 26 boats were damaged and dismasted that day.

My feeling is that Minitransat would be the best fit, but they are bloody expensive.

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Not a lot of space below in a mini transat. If you want to have your wife with you sometimes, and gunkhole/overnight a bit, even if it is only in good weather, then there are better boats around......

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A little smaller and not much below but how about an open 5.7 ??

(Well not really any below :) )

 

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7 minutes ago, Essex said:

A little smaller and not much below but how about an open 5.7 ??

(Well not really any below :) )

 

Shhhh! But put a true vmg runner on her and quit reaching. Most all boats look good reaching.  

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2 hours ago, Sidecar said:

Not a lot of space below in a mini transat. If you want to have your wife with you sometimes, and gunkhole/overnight a bit, even if it is only in good weather, then there are better boats around......

Our expectations for a comfort a fairly low. Elena is a civil engineer specialized on stress analysis - rigid design and a good performance are the top priorities. Hoping between the Golf Islands is also related to testing every local beer in each marina. That brings our tolerance to discomfort even higher.

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Like Jimbowie suggested, the Ultimate 20 is a great boat for what you want to do.

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1 hour ago, Varan said:

Shhhh! But put a true vmg runner on her and quit reaching. Most all boats look good reaching.  

The boat looks lovely. Too much hard work, though. Not sure about the choice of spinnaker. Would prefer something a bit more suitable for reaching. Looks like the rig is overloaded. One moderate gust and ...

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1 hour ago, Essex said:

Rocket 22 maybe worth a look.

Thank you for suggesting. Seems like I need something more rigid and seaworthy. Not sure how she would handle a strong breeze with some gusts.Should be a fantastic boat for the lakes.

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Sounds like a Olson 30 would be perfect. It goes nicely along in the light airs of the gulf islands. Cheap as chips.  There's one in Vancouver for sale.

If you want to give a melges a go, talk to the guys at royal Vic. There are 2 for sale there, and a great fleet looking for new owners. 

 

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Have you considered an F-24 Trimaran? It’s trailerable, sporty, and can be safely singlehanded at 15+ knots boat speed and in 20+ knots of wind.

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Did anyone read the stupendous account of ripping downwind, with kite in 30+ in the Melges 24 in R2AK?  (I see above that someone mentioned Team Educated Guess, but not this.)

Not single handing, but it makes for incredible reading. That’s about as close as I want to get :-).  

See near bottom of page here: https://r2ak.com/2019-daily-updates/2019-day-6-celebrations-and-the-knife-edge-between-tragedy-and-triumph/

The apex moment was a downwind run in 40 knots in Hecate strait. “We were hitting 18 regularly.” Their 24-foot Melges was on a downwind rager in 40 knots of wind, careening down wave faces 2/3 the size of their boat and making 18 knots on the steady. “We’d get on 16-foot cresting waves, and one of them would break under you and the sea would just fall away and the boat would drop 4 feet.” The drop was the take off assist for a surf down the wave face that would accelerate the boat over 20 knots. “22 was our top.”

This went on for hours.[Continues]

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6 hours ago, Jud - s/v Sputnik said:

Did anyone read the stupendous account of ripping downwind, with kite in 30+ in the Melges 24 in R2AK?  (I see above that someone mentioned Team Educated Guess, but not this.)

Not single handing, but it makes for incredible reading. That’s about as close as I want to get :-).  

See near bottom of page here: https://r2ak.com/2019-daily-updates/2019-day-6-celebrations-and-the-knife-edge-between-tragedy-and-triumph/

The apex moment was a downwind run in 40 knots in Hecate strait. “We were hitting 18 regularly.” Their 24-foot Melges was on a downwind rager in 40 knots of wind, careening down wave faces 2/3 the size of their boat and making 18 knots on the steady. “We’d get on 16-foot cresting waves, and one of them would break under you and the sea would just fall away and the boat would drop 4 feet.” The drop was the take off assist for a surf down the wave face that would accelerate the boat over 20 knots. “22 was our top.”

This went on for hours.[Continues]

Sounds a bit too exciting. I was failing from about 3ft waves produced by crushing currents and that was not fun at all. Didn't know that M24 can stand a strong gale for hours. A bit too much for a club racer.

15 hours ago, gspot said:

Have you considered an F-24 Trimaran? It’s trailerable, sporty, and can be safely singlehanded at 15+ knots boat speed and in 20+ knots of wind.

 

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16 hours ago, gspot said:

Have you considered an F-24 Trimaran? It’s trailerable, sporty, and can be safely singlehanded at 15+ knots boat speed and in 20+ knots of wind.

Saw a few of them in our marina. Didn't think about having one.

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On June 16, 2019 at 10:10 PM, Irish River said:

Sounds like a Olson 30 would be perfect. It goes nicely along in the light airs of the gulf islands. Cheap as chips.  There's one in Vancouver for sale.

If you want to give a melges a go, talk to the guys at royal Vic. There are 2 for sale there, and a great fleet looking for new owners. 

 

Already talking to one of them. Going to try the following weekend. Very curious how she feels. With Olson 30 - will definitely take a look. I am in Van Tuesday to Thursday almost every week.

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If you want speed, get a small Farrier tri... it’s a no brainer. And you will still have more room below than on a Melges.

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Melfes would be a terrible single hander.  You'll never keep it upright in any breeze-without beef on the rail it just slides sideways.  Light,lots of power, and skinny little foils.  Olson or Moore will be much better for what you want

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F25 is great trimaran, but only in swells.  I owned one couple years in shallow windy choppy bay where you always had to beat for an hour or more to get out.  Thing sucked in those conditions.  Hollow pounding chop was too painful to bear.  Went back to lead-belly slowmobile and never regretted it.  Loved the tri however.  Just got have right venue.  Horses for courses.

 

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On 6/16/2019 at 10:53 AM, Michael L. said:

Which autopilot did you use?

i was very happy with Autohrlm 1000

Same one, I found it couldn’t keep up with a kite up in breeze. Would love to play with a new programmable pilot on the 24, that’s what the boat needs off the wind. 

For those naysayers, you just need to learn how to sail better and grow a pair. Props to the R2AK teams, always wanted to drag a boat out there for it. I sail a cruiser now though, so who am I to talk. 

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9 hours ago, airacer said:

Same one, I found it couldn’t keep up with a kite up in breeze. Would love to play with a new programmable pilot on the 24, that’s what the boat needs off the wind. 

For those naysayers, you just need to learn how to sail better and grow a pair. Props to the R2AK teams, always wanted to drag a boat out there for it. I sail a cruiser now though, so who am I to talk. 

Since I didn't expect much from the autopilot, my single-handed experience with Autohelm 1000 on Beneteau First 210 was in general positive.

Initially it was overreacting burning my battery. After I set up a delay and did slow it down it was perfectly fine.

Radial Genoa 110% + Main with a moderate roach and stable wind ~16kn

  • Close hauled all trimmed in - fantastic
  • Beam reach - not great
  • Broad reach - problematic

Main + Chute up to ~10kn

  • Broad reach - super

Winds +20kn, gusts, choppy conditions.

  • Bad

When setting up spinnaker single handed with winds 9-10kn:

  • Not great

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14 hours ago, JimBowie said:

F25 is great trimaran, but only in swells.  I owned one couple years in shallow windy choppy bay where you always had to beat for an hour or more to get out.  Thing sucked in those conditions.  Hollow pounding chop was too painful to bear.  Went back to lead-belly slowmobile and never regretted it.  Loved the tri however.  Just got have right venue.  Horses for courses.

 

The trimaran should be very nice in Nova Scotia / open waters Atlantic - 3m ocean swell with a distance between wave crests 50-100m with a stable breeze ~15-16kn. Oh, my god - how sweet... The Juan de Fuca is different - choppy, gusts, often unpredictable. The weather is getting more and more extreme here.

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14 hours ago, JimBowie said:

F25 is great trimaran, but only in swells.  I owned one couple years in shallow windy choppy bay where you always had to beat for an hour or more to get out.  Thing sucked in those conditions.  Hollow pounding chop was too painful to bear.  Went back to lead-belly slowmobile and never regretted it.  Loved the tri however.  Just got have right venue.  Horses for courses.

 

 

40 minutes ago, Michael L. said:

The trimaran should be very nice in Nova Scotia / open waters Atlantic - 3m ocean swell with a distance between wave crests 50-100m with a stable breeze ~15-16kn. Oh, my god - how sweet... The Juan de Fuca is different - choppy, gusts, often unpredictable. The weather is getting more and more extreme here.

I can certainly attest to the benefits of a round bottom leadmine beating into the choppy waters of the Juan de Fuca, especially with wind against current, but such a boat also doesn't plane off the wind.

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1 hour ago, Michael L. said:

The trimaran should be very nice in Nova Scotia / open waters Atlantic - 3m ocean swell with a distance between wave crests 50-100m with a stable breeze ~15-16kn. Oh, my god - how sweet... The Juan de Fuca is different - choppy, gusts, often unpredictable. The weather is getting more and more extreme here.

Climate change impacting us all everywhere.  I'm 2500 miles away on Gulf Coast and I can tell you we've eliminated about 50% of our weekly races cuz it's been just too damn windy and shitty.  I've sailed this venue 37 years and never this bad.  I've resorted to heading inland 200 miles to lake just to get some sailing in.  MAGA baby....yeah right.

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12 hours ago, Michael L. said:

Thank you, guys, for your comments. Going to talk to the guys in RVYC, try M24 and let you know.

Don't do that n00bie.  You try it, you buy it.  You're gonna like it too much.  Sweet helm, blazingly fast.  Did I mention: NO WINCHES!  Huuuuuuggggge cockpit (some Donald pun intended).  What you don't yet know is how all the power, lightness and sail area are gonna come back and haunt you some dark, cold nights in the Straights of Juan de Fuckya and how much you will be missing the heavy metal ride you didn't buy...or not.

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Well said. Clearest memory of m24 ownership is banging through chop on double handed delivery (of course the wind built and went on the nose). Just on our ear and pounding for 3hours.

Well I guess also recall those screaming reaches with 5 of use stacked on the aft rail.

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7 hours ago, JimBowie said:

Don't do that n00bie.  You try it, you buy it.  You're gonna like it too much.  Sweet helm, blazingly fast.  Did I mention: NO WINCHES!  Huuuuuuggggge cockpit (some Donald pun intended).  What you don't yet know is how all the power, lightness and sail area are gonna come back and haunt you some dark, cold nights in the Straights of Juan de Fuckya and how much you will be missing the heavy metal ride you didn't buy...or not.

It may well be so. If were all making only conscious decisions... At some point sailing becomes a dependency and seems like M24 is a strong staff.

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7 hours ago, Essex said:

Well said. Clearest memory of m24 ownership is banging through chop on double handed delivery (of course the wind built and went on the nose). Just on our ear and pounding for 3hours.

Well I guess also recall those screaming reaches with 5 of use stacked on the aft rail.

Sounds like fun.

 

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A guy here in Germany did minimum 2 Silverrudders (135 nm) in a mod. M24.

He had som 2*200 liter of water ballast below the gunwhale . Was fast!.

But forget the Ray 1000 or 2000.

Buy a new Ray gyro driven tiller autopilot system, trick it out a few times and it will steer the boat up to 12 knots of boatspeed...(if you have enough stability.

I have a T24 pretty similiar to a M24 according to weight, keel and sail area. have done now some 3000 solo miles on JYNX and some great ORC-C results against the fleet.

42282191_10217551570329485_546106311457112064_o.jpg

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Great. 400L of ballast should bring the loaded displacement to ~5-team level on the rail and reduce sail to displacement ratio to something sensible.

With Raymarine 1000 -  worked well for my old boat and sailed her at ~6kn under stable winds.

Seems like M24 is hyper sensitive and needs something more advanced.

Do you know any specifics related to the sails?

My thought was that a smaller roach would probably be a good thing.

Do you know what kind of winds this guy was sailing single-handed and how early he his reefing?

On the picture it looks like 12-15kn of breeze and he is reefing.

M

 

 

 

 

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The thing to do is to make a new keel that is a meter or two deeper with more ballast. Replace the beef on the rail with lead on the strut.  Maybe there is something from another boat that could be plugged in. Daggerboard style lifting keel makes it an easy conversion. You would want to match righting moment if you could so that sails and tuning carry over.

There is no reason this conversion wouldn’t sail as well as fully loaded race boat.

SHC

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9 hours ago, Michael L. said:

On the picture it looks like 12-15kn of breeze and he is reefing.

M

 

 

 

 

thats not a melges... sure you know what you are getting yourself into here?

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9 hours ago, Michael L. said:

Great. 400L of ballast should bring the loaded displacement to ~5-team level on the rail and reduce sail to displacement ratio to something sensible.

With Raymarine 1000 -  worked well for my old boat and sailed her at ~6kn under stable winds.

Seems like M24 is hyper sensitive and needs something more advanced.

Do you know any specifics related to the sails?

My thought was that a smaller roach would probably be a good thing.

Do you know what kind of winds this guy was sailing single-handed and how early he his reefing?

On the picture it looks like 12-15kn of breeze and he is reefing.

M

This was me in the stormy Silverrudder 2018 at the start with 25. Later we had winds over 40 which was NOT pleasent but with a furled jib we survived....

A 2. reef would have been good but was not avail. 

But 25 was OK.

A...don't forget to fit hiking straps

 

 

9 hours ago, Michael L. said:

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, patrese said:

 

 

 

Looks very smooth for 25kn. We have a weather like this when the wind goes with the current - blowing quite hard and completely flat. That should be really hard on the mast and on the rig under 40kn of wind with only one line of reefs and a furling jib even with a loose leech. 

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With the hiking straps - I was usually on the harness starting with 20kn of wind when sailing single handed.

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On 6/22/2019 at 10:12 PM, Michael L. said:

Thank you, guys, for your comments. Going to talk to the guys in RVYC, try M24 and let you know.

Your OP asked for alternatives with similar performance.   I know it might be heresy for you folks who like sailing monomarans, but a trimaran, such as an F24 has similar performance and is and excellent boat for single handing in pretty much any breeze.   Concur that a Moore 24 is sailed single handed a lot here in San Francisco, but the Moore is quite a bit slower (ratings here are 150 or so for the Moore and 90 for the Melges and 69 for the trimaran).

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3 hours ago, MultiThom said:

Your OP asked for alternatives with similar performance.   I know it might be heresy for you folks who like sailing monomarans, but a trimaran, such as an F24 has similar performance and is and excellent boat for single handing in pretty much any breeze.   Concur that a Moore 24 is sailed single handed a lot here in San Francisco, but the Moore is quite a bit slower (ratings here are 150 or so for the Moore and 90 for the Melges and 69 for the trimaran).

A problem is that I love a mono hull  feel under the wind and was spoiled a bit by my previous boat. To find an affordable match in this class that has a better performance and handles (at least) the same wind range appears to be a challenge.

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Melges 24 and F-24 MKII both rate 90 under PHRF-NW.

The difference is that it's actually possible to sail the F-24 to its rating while singlehanded, and to get anywhere near that with the Melges 24 you'll need a crew.  

Both totally suck beating upwind into chop, with the key difference that it's possible singlehanded with the F-24, not so much with the Melges 24.

An F-24 feels much more like a sporty monohull than you might think - much more so than a catamaran for example.

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In light to medium stuff, the F24 and Melges24 sail quite similarly but if we are talking about ugly chop, the F-24 will do a lot better upwind in sporty conditions than the Melges (and Moore), especially single handed.

Upwind in 30+ with 2+knots of current against, about 7-9kt boat speed:

http://photos.app.goo.gl/sSQNYyBTbTMVtiM6A

 

4 crew on board but wouldn't have been that much slower with just one.

Single handed on a nicer, more relaxed day: http://photos.app.goo.gl/PcYSB4hjTj8ZNi3U6

 

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On 6/26/2019 at 6:44 PM, Michael L. said:

Looks very smooth for 25kn. We have a weather like this when the wind goes with the current - blowing quite hard and completely flat. That should be really hard on the mast and on the rig under 40kn of wind with only one line of reefs and a furling jib even with a loose leech. 

Here is a youtube link to the starts in 2018, but do not listen to the music....

 

 

 

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Thank you for the link: looks more like 25kn gusting winds now. The current looks absolutely crazy and it is so narrow under the bridge. The ferry captain also has some serious mental issues which adds to the mix. The coast guard doing a very good job.

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On 6/29/2019 at 6:33 PM, Michael L. said:

Thank you for the link: looks more like 25kn gusting winds now. The current looks absolutely crazy and it is so narrow under the bridge. The ferry captain also has some serious mental issues which adds to the mix. The coast guard doing a very good job.

The start of Silverrudder 2018 had already been delayed 22 hours, because of the storm. The mean wind was about 25 knots in the start (with 3-4 knots of current), with a lot more in the gusts. At some point during the race it was gusting up to 50 knots. 418 boats entered the race, 136 started and only 53 completed it.

That particular ferry captain has a reputation of not giving a fuck about about sailboats.

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Didn’t some anarchist do a Chicago-Mackinac solo on a Melges 24. 

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22 hours ago, SCANAS said:

Didn’t some anarchist do a Chicago-Mackinac solo on a Melges 24. 

Not solo. A crewed M24 sailed up to Mackinac shadowing the "Big Mac" race in 2005 which they dubbed, "The Night of the Epirb". There was a link in the Melges 24 website, but it seems to be lost now.

https://twitter.com/NickyScarfa/status/608379351533559808

In 2002, Rob Robins did sail the Chicago Solo Mac in the Kiwi 35 then named Pegasus and later named Wingnuts though...

http://docs.solosailors.org/pdfs/mac2002results.pdf

 

 

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59 minutes ago, sidmon said:

Not solo. A crewed M24 sailed up to Mackinac shadowing the "Big Mac" race in 2005 which they dubbed, "The Night of the Epirb". There was a link in the Melges 24 website, but it seems to be lost now.

https://twitter.com/NickyScarfa/status/608379351533559808

In 2002, Rob Robins did sail the Chicago Solo Mac in the Kiwi 35 then named Pegasus and later named Wingnuts though...

http://docs.solosailors.org/pdfs/mac2002results.pdf

 

 

Lake Eerie sorry. 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, SCANAS said:

Lake Eerie sorry. 

 

 

Airacer didn't sail the race but did shadow the fleet early on then went back to Toledo. His account of that is above.

Turned out the 2015 Lake Erie Solo was brutal. Here is the recap:

http://docs.solosailors.org/pdfs/2015_Lake_Erie_Solo_Challenge.pdf

Quote

... Blair Arden and Dave Evans, both with over 30 GLSS Challenges to their credit, said this was their toughest GLSS Challenge.

Past the Islands the winds and waves grew and the fleet started to pay attention to the weather forecast.Late Sunday to noon on Monday a cold front was forecast to move through with heavy west winds possibly to 40knots. Of course the fleet had to endure a couple of windless hours before the transition and the bats wallowed in the left over slop.

As the cold front approached the temps quickly dropped and the west winds built to 20 knots and then more. The ride was tough and the Lake Erie waves did their thing, building to eight feet. John Lubimir in Flight Risk lead the way rounding Buffalo around 0430 with Mac McKensie and Joey Baker trying to keep pace knowing well the Buffalo to Erie leg would have the wind on the nose.The fleet by now had seen several boats seek shelter as going past Erie only to sail back into close to 30 knot winds and big waves did not appeal to all. What they missed was a dead on beat with winds at the weather buoys reading 25 knots plus. Nobody argued that the waves were 8 feet and the boats constantly were flying off the tops of waves into the troughs with a big splash.The fleet was praying for a wind shift but it wouldnt happen and boats were throwing in a dozen tacks trying to stay near the rhumbine on the 16 or more hour beat from Buffalo

 

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On 6/28/2019 at 1:33 PM, gspot said:

Melges 24 and F-24 MKII both rate 90 under PHRF-NW.

The difference is that it's actually possible to sail the F-24 to its rating while singlehanded, and to get anywhere near that with the Melges 24 you'll need a crew.  

Both totally suck beating upwind into chop, with the key difference that it's possible singlehanded with the F-24, not so much with the Melges 24.

An F-24 feels much more like a sporty monohull than you might think - much more so than a catamaran for example.

IF, you changed to a self tacking jib AND a roller furled (smaller) asymmetric spinnaker...could the Melges stay on it's feet with just one on board?  Making those changes would make sailhanding possible singlehanded.  Gotta admit, my current boat has both those things and sailing singlehanded is a dream upwind and downwind--almost too easy; but as I'm near 70, gotta find ways to make a boat do'able in a breeze.  Went out on a day against a 2 kt current and 8 kt breeze...50 tacks later I've clawed my way 5 miles.

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Not unless you can reef the main.  I've solo'd mine in 20-25.  Went downhill great - I was seeing 17-18 steady with the spin up.  Turned around to go back home, and I could not de-power it enough.  Furled the jib, and the main was still too much.  1 hour down the lake turned into 4 hours back home...

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2 hours ago, MultiThom said:

IF, you changed to a self tacking jib AND a roller furled (smaller) asymmetric spinnaker...could the Melges stay on it's feet with just one on board?  Making those changes would make sailhanding possible singlehanded.  Gotta admit, my current boat has both those things and sailing singlehanded is a dream upwind and downwind--almost too easy; but as I'm near 70, gotta find ways to make a boat do'able in a breeze.  Went out on a day against a 2 kt current and 8 kt breeze...50 tacks later I've clawed my way 5 miles.

I think there are basically two parts to the equation - operating the boat (e.g. steering and pulling the strings) and ballast.

Operating the boat while single-handed is doable on both with some careful planning, but it's the ballast that is the problem with the Melges 24 - the hull form and substantial beam of the F-24 takes care of that.

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3 hours ago, gspot said:

Operating the boat while single-handed is doable on both with some careful planning, but it's the ballast that is the problem with the Melges 24 - the hull form and substantial beam of the F-24 takes care of that.

No argument here, that's why I sail trimarans.  

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45 minutes ago, MultiThom said:

No argument here, that's why I sail trimarans.  

I think we are in violent agreement!

I sail on two boats built by Corsair marine - an F-24 and a Cheetah 30.

Both weigh about the same and have similar strings, PHRF ratings and sail plans.

The F-24 can sail to its rating with 1-2 crew but the Cheetah 30 needs 5 - the difference is all in what is required to ballast the boat.

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Having sailed in and around this area for the past 10 years, I'd say the days with wind <10kts greatly exceed the days with wind >10kts, especially once you start getting up towards the gulf islands.

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