Parma

USS Midway hit again?

Recommended Posts

That's what we heard. Dock talk is they hit the Midway at the exact same spot

IIRC last year's smash up also involved a 41.1.

Way to go guys. Way to go.

20190623_114919.thumb.jpg.32316e28de4ed5b63744cf6985530585.jpg20190623_114937.thumb.jpg.dad80a06823e15eb6d14e8e07fa5fa75.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A parked aircraft carrier

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, justsomeguy! said:

Wait, someone ran into a parked boat?

Seems an underage civilian was at the controls of the Navy ship. The crew was nowhere to be found! Incredible!

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair it was gusting to 15 today so conditions were pretty treacherous. I was out with a reef in the main to keep the drinks from spilling.

And those carriers can really sneak up on you. 

Seriously though are we 100% sure those aren’t the same pics from last year?  For some reason the name rings a bell but I can’t place it. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Happened yesterday.

Same model, diff boat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The USS Midway has those pokey-outey horn thingies off the bow which originally held a net or something. They got rid of them in later aircraft carriers but I'm sure they represent a hazard to incompetent navigation. Come to think of it there are several protuberances out of the Midway's hull amidships but you'd have to get remarkably close to it for them to come into play one would think. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Man, the jokes sort of just write themselves don’t they. Amazing. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Image result for uss midway

:o:wacko:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, mad said:

Image result for uss midway

:o:wacko:

Those pokey-outey things at the bow are the dampers for the launch catapults.

Just for those who want to know these things...............

Do the elevators still work? Getting caught under one of those, coming down, could really make a mess of your day

FB- Doug

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I remember when the Midway was home ported in Yokusuka, Japan as the carrier for the 7th fleet, late '80s.  She sailed out for a cruise one time, and not far from Tokyo Bay, a steam line exploded in a small space.  As I recall at least a couple of sailors were killed and several injured.   I am pretty sure when she left Japan, she was retired, she was old even back then.  The USS Kitty Hawk replaced the Midway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, mad said:

Image result for uss midway

:o:wacko:

You mess with the bull, you get the horns.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon man! have some empathy! Can you imagine how terrifying that would be to have that happen to you on your boat?

I mean, there you are sailing along on a beautiful Saturday afternoon in your very nice & fairly new sailing yacht when suddenly, out of nowhere, an aircraft carrier abruptly appears in front of you.

I can easily imagine that the shock of that sight, and the fact that you and all your guests have drinks in their hands, makes it impossible to take avoiding action.

Plus the wind was suddenly & unexpectedly blowing you into the carrier. Sailboats are just plain old not equipped to handle wind.

I suspect the Iranians had something to do with it. Can't prove that, just a suspicion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Benne was towed out of the environment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Share    
 
 
 
 
 
 
Have one to sell?Sell on Amazon
 
714PH4X5FRL._SX311_BO1,204,203,200_.gif
 
714PH4X5FRL._AC_SX60_CR,0,0,60,60_.gif
See this image
 

Follow the Author

no-profile-image-placeholder-na._CB48411
+ Follow

How to Avoid Huge Ships Paperback – March 1, 1993

by John W. Trimmer  (Author)

Best price

 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I remember when the Midway was home ported in Yokusuka, Japan as the carrier for the 7th fleet, late '80s.  She sailed out for a cruise one time, and not far from Tokyo Bay, a steam line exploded in a small space.  As I recall at least a couple of sailors were killed and several injured.   I am pretty sure when she left Japan, she was retired, she was old even back then.  The USS Kitty Hawk replaced the Midway.

Yes, the Midway was decomisioned when she left Yokosuka and spent a number of years in the inactive fleet at Bremerton. Then moved to San Diego as a museum ship. The USS Independence replaced the Midway in Yokosuka and in the later 90,s the Kitty Hawk replaced the Indy. Kitty Hawk is still moored at Bremerton awaiting disposal.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a refreshing change when random boats hit US Navy ships, rather than the other way around. 

#ShitExArmyGuysSay

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Jackdaw said:

That boat day-charters out of Harbor Sailboats out of Shelter Island.

https://harborsailboats.com/sailboat-rentals/

They probably need to add a section on Aircraft Carrier identification in the skipper resume check.

Well, that explains it.

Not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, hoppy said:

It's a rental.

https://harborsailboats.com/sailboat-rentals/

 

2015 Oceanis 41 Sweet Denyse $650 $725 $1,015

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Jackdaw said:

That boat day-charters out of Harbor Sailboats out of Shelter Island.

https://harborsailboats.com/sailboat-rentals/

They probably need to add a section on Aircraft Carrier identification in the skipper resume check.

You were too slow....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Parma said:

That's what we heard. Dock talk is they hit the Midway at the exact same spot

IIRC last year's smash up also involved a 41.1.

Way to go guys. Way to go.

20190623_114919.thumb.jpg.32316e28de4ed5b63744cf6985530585.jpg20190623_114937.thumb.jpg.dad80a06823e15eb6d14e8e07fa5fa75.jpg

Too much rake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Great White said:

Yes, the Midway was decomisioned when she left Yokosuka and spent a number of years in the inactive fleet at Bremerton. Then moved to San Diego as a museum ship. The USS Independence replaced the Midway in Yokosuka and in the later 90,s the Kitty Hawk replaced the Indy. Kitty Hawk is still moored at Bremerton awaiting disposal.

I must have been confused.  I remember when the Independence was at Yokosuka, I was at the nearby Camp Zama Army post.  I was actually on board the Indy just before a deployment.  I might have heard that the Kitty Hawk was in town in '92, when she was in the area.  I was gone from Japan by the time she was based there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, hoppy said:

 

You were too slow....

 

Ah. Missed that. Well then to actually add some value I'll stay that I've chartered from Harbor recently and their seem to be a pretty good operation. The boat was in solid shape, and the skipper's briefing by the dock master was solid. Bet the Midway not is a no-fly zone now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Lex Teredo said:

It's a refreshing change when random boats hit US Navy ships, rather than the other way around. 

#ShitExArmyGuysSay

Hey!

Although you do have a point, Army ships are rarely involved in collisions...........

-DSK

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey!

Although you do have a point, Army ships are rarely involved in collisions...........

-DSK

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rental fleets are madly installing new ACIS* systems currently.  Included with the equipment is a large book with pictures.

Aircraft Carrier Identification System

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Credit Card Skipper: ‘ Not my fault. It didn’t show up on the plotter ‘

 

 

BAB2D39D-F15E-4D6A-8935-F8ACBB199E53.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Foiling Optimist said:

hazard to incompetent navigation

I love this term.  Stealing it.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Fakenews said:

Too much rake

Don't be silly.  Those gaff rigs often have lots of rake.  

image.png.66908d6b5937ac9efbae34d47bd3666e.png

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Steam Flyer said:

Hey!

Although you do have a point, Army ships are rarely involved in collisions...........

-DSK

LOL.  The Army has arguably as many ships as the Navy does, and a lot more small vessels, called "boats," which are not actually nukluar* powered, nukular* weaponed, or even submersible, unless the crew screws up and leaves out the drain plugs at the ramp.  

Oddly enough, a lot of the Army's ships are built for ramming things, mostly pushing bridge parts floating docks, driving pilings, moving dirt or for banging up onto shore to offload gear.  The Army also has more boats than pretty much anybody other than the South Georgia largemouth bass fishing fleet.  Lotta paradoxes within DoD...

The Navy wants us to save the Army's Navy...


*If Nukular is good enough a word for a lot of the sub guys I've known and for the nukular cannon cockers, and for some of the civilian powerplant guys, it's good enough for me. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, mad said:

Image result for uss midway

:o:wacko:

The pointy things on the bow are bridle catchers, or at least they were for the 200 or so cats and traps I did on the Midway.  Bridles were wire harnesses used to attach older style aircraft like A-4s and F-4s to the catapult.  The stern featured a 4 degree glideslope.

When I was on her in the late '80s, the patch of honor was one for being on board for her infamous 26 degree roll in a typhoon.  Especially notable since the Naval Architects had calculated her LPOS as 24 degrees.

We called her the USS Underway because she deployed so often.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, mookiesurfs said:

The pointy things on the bow are bridle catchers, or at least they were for the 200 or so cats and traps I did on the Midway.  Bridles were wire harnesses used to attach older style aircraft like A-4s and F-4s to the catapult.  The stern featured a 4 degree glideslope.

When I was on her in the late '80s, the patch of honor was one for being on board for her infamous 26 degree roll in a typhoon.  Especially notable since the Naval Architects had calculated her LPOS as 24 degrees.

We called her the USS Underway because she deployed so often.

Thanks!  

Great to see her still destroying vessels after all these years!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, mookiesurfs said:

The pointy things on the bow are bridle catchers, or at least they were for the 200 or so cats and traps I did on the Midway.  Bridles were wire harnesses used to attach older style aircraft like A-4s and F-4s to the catapult.  The stern featured a 4 degree glideslope.

When I was on her in the late '80s, the patch of honor was one for being on board for her infamous 26 degree roll in a typhoon.  Especially notable since the Naval Architects had calculated her LPOS as 24 degrees.

We called her the USS Underway because she deployed so often.

1871f68c17ad6dd0bbb663021b2579b4198af1be

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, Parma said:

Happened yesterday.

Same model, diff boat.

I mis-spoke:

The one that hit the Midway last year was a Oceanis 38.1

But both were Harbor Sailboats charters. I wonder how they handle the insurance & claims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Adds new meaning to "Drive it like it's a rental."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Parma said:

I mis-spoke:

The one that hit the Midway last year was a Oceanis 38.1

But both were Harbor Sailboats charters. I wonder how they handle the insurance & claims.

I chartered from them earlier this year, took a Beneteau 33 for a weekend banging (OK poor choice of words today) around that bay. There was a US$2700 damage deposit. Insurance was included in the charter rate, I assume Captain Credit Card had a like amount held on his CC that he will never see again.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jackdaw said:

. There was a US$2700 damage deposit. Insurance was included in the charter rate, I assume Captain Credit Card had a like amount held on his CC that he cancelled or reported stolen as soon as the rig came down. will never see again.

 

fixerated

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Jackdaw said:

I chartered from them earlier this year, took a Beneteau 33 for a weekend banging (OK poor choice of words today) around that bay. There was a US$2700 damage deposit. Insurance was included in the charter rate, I assume Captain Credit Card had a like amount held on his CC that he will never see again.

They're a good outfit, marina neighbors of ours.  I wonder how their insurance company will take this though - two rigs down in as many years.  What do you think the yard bill would be?  $150k?  That's a lot of boat-years of insurance payments.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

I must have been confused.  I remember when the Independence was at Yokosuka, I was at the nearby Camp Zama Army post.  I was actually on board the Indy just before a deployment.  I might have heard that the Kitty Hawk was in town in '92, when she was in the area.  I was gone from Japan by the time she was based there.

As part of my job, I traveled to Yokosuka for all three. Once for Midway in 1983 (?), several times for Indy and many for Kitty Hawk including a couple three month assignments as shipyard rep during availabilities. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Parma said:

 

20190623_114919.thumb.jpg.32316e28de4ed5b63744cf6985530585.jpg

I have to admit, I'm kinda diggin' how the arch, boom, and then vang are holding that mess up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, socalrider said:

 I wonder how their insurance company will take this though - two rigs down in as many years.  What do you think the yard bill would be?  $150k?  That's a lot of boat-years of insurance payments.  

Actually, the 38.1 hit the Midway less than 10 months ago but that only makes the insurance calculation even worse.

I would guess that the yard bills for both (including damage other than to the rigs themselves) would still be sub 100k. Now, if you throw in lost charter  income from 2 fairly new boats, probably well over 150k. Maybe well over 200k.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kinda like driving straight into the side wall of a Walmart with an empty parking lot.....  It just doesn't seem possible, until you've seen it done.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Parma said:

Actually, the 38.1 hit the Midway less than 10 months ago but that only makes the insurance calculation even worse.

I would guess that the yard bills for both (including damage other than to the rigs themselves) would still be sub 100k. Now, if you throw in lost charter  income from 2 fairly new boats, probably well over 150k. Maybe well over 200k.

You really think the USN charters out the "Midway"?....... I hadn't thought of that.....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Mrleft8 said:

You really think the USN charters out the "Midway"?....... I hadn't thought of that.....

Yeah, well think about this: the insurance carrier for the Midway totals the Midway and makes a claim for a new carrier, maybe that one up in Bremerton.

Didn't see that coming.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Parma said:

Yeah, well think about this: the insurance carrier for the Midway totals the Midway and makes a claim for a new carrier, maybe that one up in Bremerton.

Didn't see that coming.

What's the deductible on a carrier? Does the policy cover third party liability?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

What's the deductible on a carrier? Does the policy cover third party liability?

I think the deductible is the political independence of your home country.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The way things are going in the Straits of Hormuz, lately the deductible on aircraft carriers has probably gone way up. I'm sure in has on Reapers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mookiesurfs said:

The pointy things on the bow are bridle catchers, or at least they were for the 200 or so cats and traps I did on the Midway.  Bridles were wire harnesses used to attach older style aircraft like A-4s and F-4s to the catapult.  The stern featured a 4 degree glideslope.

When I was on her in the late '80s, the patch of honor was one for being on board for her infamous 26 degree roll in a typhoon.  Especially notable since the Naval Architects had calculated her LPOS as 24 degrees.

We called her the USS Underway because she deployed so often.

THanks

I never heard about the roll incident. I was on tin cans, 26 degrees would not be remarkable

I was a BT and took several rate exams on carrier catapults (and elevators) but never worked on them. For the BT1 exam I went over to the one then in Mayport (IIRC the Sara) and went over them for most of a day including crawling over the water brake (the brake cylinder itself is not in there but there's some kind of piping for it that I don't recall too clearly) and fwd spring retainer for the retractor.... in other words, INSIDE that funny-shaped thing sticking out the front.

Bridle+Catcher+Closeup.jpg

Bu you can clearly see the bridle-caching function here!

( from http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2011/01/catapult-innovations.html )

We should probably hush up this kind of stuff since the Chinese are busy trying to figure out to run their own carrier and no doubt scouring the internet for hints!

FB- Doug (ex-BT1sw)

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

The way things are going in the Straits of Hormuz, lately the deductible on aircraft carriers has probably gone way up. I'm sure in has on Reapers.

Not to mention Global Hawks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, KC375 said:

Not to mention Global Hawks

Yeah, that was a GH wasn't it? Just glad the P-8 didn't get cooked!

 

Looks now like it wasn't a GH but the Navy's version the Triton!

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-cms-content-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1561015705959-asddcc.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.2.1&s=e6808d922661fd0ea9bc608a3cf69b34

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

Yeah, that was a GH wasn't it? Just glad the P-8 didn't get cooked!

 

Looks now like it wasn't a GH but the Navy's version the Triton!

https%3A%2F%2Fs3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com%2Fthe-drive-cms-content-staging%2Fmessage-editor%252F1561015705959-asddcc.jpg?auto=compress%2Cformat&ixlib=js-1.2.1&s=e6808d922661fd0ea9bc608a3cf69b34

apparently Iran went after a reaper in yemen but missed, so range of expensive US hardware at risk in that part of town...kind makes you ask what National interest is served in places like Yemen

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Steam Flyer said:

THanks

I never heard about the roll incident. I was on tin cans, 26 degrees would not be remarkable

I was a BT and took several rate exams on carrier catapults (and elevators) but never worked on them. For the BT1 exam I went over to the one then in Mayport (IIRC the Sara) and went over them for most of a day including crawling over the water brake (the brake cylinder itself is not in there but there's some kind of piping for it that I don't recall too clearly) and fwd spring retainer for the retractor.... in other words, INSIDE that funny-shaped thing sticking out the front.

Bridle+Catcher+Closeup.jpg

Bu you can clearly see the bridle-caching function here!

( from http://thanlont.blogspot.com/2011/01/catapult-innovations.html )

We should probably hush up this kind of stuff since the Chinese are busy trying to figure out to run their own carrier and no doubt scouring the internet for hints!

FB- Doug (ex-BT1sw)

I guess we could just rename them Beneteau catchers and move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

French catchers rolls off the tongue better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Rasputin22 said:

What would Gary Powers think?

 

How much better it is to be safely in a bunker behind a video screen than in the crosshairs of a MIG or a SAM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Great White said:

As part of my job, I traveled to Yokosuka for all three. Once for Midway in 1983 (?), several times for Indy and many for Kitty Hawk including a couple three month assignments as shipyard rep during availabilities. 

For an Army guy, I spent a bit at time at Yokosuka.  I had a few knee surgeries there and my daughter was born there.  I also was a friend of an enlisted psych tech there as I worked in mental health and we sent psych patients to the hospital there when necessary.   Yokota Air Base which also had a hospital was also nearby but we had a better relationship with the Navy folks.

Camp Zama was a pretty nice assignment.  Our aviation battalion used to fly medical patients to routine appointments at the hospital at Yokosuka if the weather was good.  It was a win-win, the rotor heads got in their required flight time and 20 minutes in a helicopter was better than 1-2 hours on a bus for the patients. Between that and occasionally flying on medevac flights, I got in a bit of flight time.  Mt. Fuji from one view, Tokyo from another and the Pacific ocean always.  Very cool.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

by japanese tourists?    trying to finish the job?

Too soon!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Grande Mastere Dreade said:

 

77 years?

Has it been that long already? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, mookiesurfs said:

I guess we could just rename them Beneteau catchers and move on.

Gonna require a lotta corrections to all those tech manuals!

-DSK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife and I went out for a sail Saturday evening to take advantage of a rare sunny day, and we came across poor Denyse on our way out. Once we figured out that none of the stays or shrouds looked damaged and the mast was raked back pretty far, we figured they hit something, but neither of us could believe another boat would've hit the Midway. I feel bad for the folks at Harbor because at least the dock crew I've met are cool, and their renters haven't caused me any problems (yet). It was a comically calm afternoon for that level of carnage. 

IMG_0203.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, KC375 said:

apparently Iran went after a reaper in yemen but missed, so range of expensive US hardware at risk in that part of town...kind makes you ask what National interest is served in places like Yemen

Because the Iranians could shut down 30% plus of the world oil supply by blockading the Straits of Hormuz, and hamper 100% of the world's shipping if their proxy Shia militias get control of Yemen, and the Bab al Mandab Strait that controls entry and exit to the Southern end of the Suez Canal. 

You must be a front of the boat guy that doesn't look at maps much.   Related:  why isn't the U.S. and west harder on the Saudis, and why are there U.S., French, Chinese and Japanese military bases in Djibouti? 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lex Teredo said:

Because the Iranians could shut down 30% plus of the world oil supply by blockading the Straits of Hormuz, and hamper 100% of the world's shipping if their proxy Shia militias get control of Yemen, and the Bab al Mandab Strait that controls entry and exit to the Southern end of the Suez Canal. 

You must be a front of the boat guy that doesn't look at maps much.   Related:  why isn't the U.S. and west harder on the Saudis, and why are there U.S., French, Chinese and Japanese military bases in Djibouti? 

 

I’m reasonably familiar with geography having worked on and employed people on 4 continents.

Said mostly flippantly, US national interest might be best served by an Iranian disruption in the Straight of Hormuz. After all the US is now a net exporter of oil. Given North American production costs are on the high end an increase in oil prices offers more leverage to US energy interests than to Saudi interests.

As to the impact of Houthi control of the Bab al-Mandab Strait, yes that would be a significant effect on international shipping – that the US might or might not care about. How much of what goes through the Suez canal originates or ends up in the US? Still it would be disruptive to the world economy so that’s worth considering.

Since you a geographically astute genius from the after guard of the boat, I’m sure its clear to you that If the US is concerned about Yemen being populated by allies, then providing support to the Saudi massacre of civilians using hardware that leaves behind detritus marked “made in the USA” might not be the most strategic approach. That’s likely to be as effective as “operation Iraqi freedom”. Before the invasion Iraq was led by a really bad guy who was no particular friend of the US but certainly not of Iran. After the invasion the average Iraqi is probably worse off, blames the US for their circumstances, and Iraq has fallen under the influence of Iran...how’d that would out for you uncle Sam?

As for strategic actions, I’m sure you are familiar with Mossadegh and Kermit Roosevelt / Operation Ajax. Clear evidence of US belief in democracy – the overthrow of a democratically elected secular leader of Iran....a pretty straight line leads from that treachery to the anti US theocracy leading Iran. In wading into the complexity of Persian / Arab, Sunni / Shia rivalry, US actions put Iran on the opposite side from it. If you could go back to 1953 and pick a secularly led democratic Iran as an ally rather than a absolute Monarchy of Saudi Arabia...well you might do it differently if you had a do over. US intervention in the region has repeatedly got it wrong. That’s not to suggest that some American’s don’t get it, but they are often ignored. I knew someone in the State department who understood the dynamics in Iraq leading up to 2003. Because she wasn’t towing the party line from the Whitehouse she was fired (later picked up by the Pentagon to help with the mess post invasion). Sometimes just staying home is the wiser choice.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, Ed Lada said:

 

Camp Zama was a pretty nice assignment.  Our aviation battalion used to fly medical patients to routine appointments at the hospital at Yokosuka if the weather was good.  It was a win-win, the rotor heads got in their required flight time and 20 minutes in a helicopter was better than 1-2 hours on a bus for the patients. Between that and occasionally flying on medevac flights, I got in a bit of flight time.  Mt. Fuji from one view, Tokyo from another and the Pacific ocean always.  Very cool.

Camp Zama to Yokosuka by helicopter is really giving the patients the VIP treatment! I suppose the pilots needed to get their time in anyways. I will never forget a meeting I once attended in Ayase. The window panes were constantly rattling because of carrier aircraft doing touch and goes at Atsugi. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, KC375 said:

I’m reasonably familiar with geography having worked on and employed people on 4 continents.

Said mostly flippantly, US national interest might be best served by an Iranian disruption in the Straight of Hormuz. After all the US is now a net exporter of oil. Given North American production costs are on the high end an increase in oil prices offers more leverage to US energy interests than to Saudi interests.

As to the impact of Houthi control of the Bab al-Mandab Strait, yes that would be a significant effect on international shipping – that the US might or might not care about. How much of what goes through the Suez canal originates or ends up in the US? Still it would be disruptive to the world economy so that’s worth considering.

Since you a geographically astute genius from the after guard of the boat, I’m sure its clear to you that If the US is concerned about Yemen being populated by allies, then providing support to the Saudi massacre of civilians using hardware that leaves behind detritus marked “made in the USA” might not be the most strategic approach. That’s likely to be as effective as “operation Iraqi freedom”. Before the invasion Iraq was led by a really bad guy who was no particular friend of the US but certainly not of Iran. After the invasion the average Iraqi is probably worse off, blames the US for their circumstances, and Iraq has fallen under the influence of Iran...how’d that would out for you uncle Sam?

As for strategic actions, I’m sure you are familiar with Mossadegh and Kermit Roosevelt / Operation Ajax. Clear evidence of US belief in democracy – the overthrow of a democratically elected secular leader of Iran....a pretty straight line leads from that treachery to the anti US theocracy leading Iran. In wading into the complexity of Persian / Arab, Sunni / Shia rivalry, US actions put Iran on the opposite side from it. If you could go back to 1953 and pick a secularly led democratic Iran as an ally rather than a absolute Monarchy of Saudi Arabia...well you might do it differently if you had a do over. US intervention in the region has repeatedly got it wrong. That’s not to suggest that some American’s don’t get it, but they are often ignored. I knew someone in the State department who understood the dynamics in Iraq leading up to 2003. Because she wasn’t towing the party line from the Whitehouse she was fired (later picked up by the Pentagon to help with the mess post invasion). Sometimes just staying home is the wiser choice.

Yeah, I'm sure the world would be a lot better off without all the US interference and I'm also sure I don't have a clue on how to disengage without making it into a lot more treacherous environment, and I can't see how we'd be better off letting the Iranians take control of one side of the Strait of Hormuz and Bab al Mandab, and letting AQ in the Maghreb or some Somali warlord take control of the other side of Bab al Mandab.  Maybe the Germans could send their brigade and their new boat, if it's finally working, to secure the sea lane...

As for Iraq in 2003... I was there in '91 in the fighting and then for months afterwards dealing with refugees in Southern Iraq, working with torture victims, victims of mass casualty attacks by the secret police, and investigating some amazingly systematic and brutal large scale war crimes.  May have been the wrong war at the wrong time in 2003, but I have trouble condemning it outright.  Saw some evil shit.  That regime had to go. We were 15 years too late by 2003.  I have a healthy respect for stability and international norms but can't fetishize them after seeing that up close. 

YMMV.
 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lex Teredo said:

Yeah, I'm sure the world would be a lot better off without all the US interference and I'm also sure I don't have a clue on how to disengage without making it into a lot more treacherous environment, and I can't see how we'd be better off letting the Iranians take control of one side of the Strait of Hormuz and Bab al Mandab, and letting AQ in the Maghreb or some Somali warlord take control of the other side of Bab al Mandab.  Maybe the Germans could send their brigade and their new boat, if it's finally working, to secure the sea lane...

As for Iraq in 2003... I was there in '91 in the fighting and then for months afterwards dealing with refugees in Southern Iraq, working with torture victims, victims of mass casualty attacks by the secret police, and investigating some amazingly systematic and brutal large scale war crimes.  May have been the wrong war at the wrong time in 2003, but I have trouble condemning it outright.  Saw some evil shit.  That regime had to go. We were 15 years too late by 2003.  I have a healthy respect for stability and international norms but can't fetishize them after seeing that up close. 

YMMV.
 

I have a family member who has been involved with rule of law initiatives (including Afghanistan and several Balkan states. He’s certainly no fan of American adventurism but as he frequently reminds me: “You’d prefer Russia to have won the cold war?” Clearly not.

Maybe Obama was on to something with “Don’t do stupid”.

A lot to learn from two Georges:

George Bush senior – intervene only as much as you absolutely have to; and

George C Marshall – if you are going to get stuck in, make sure you win the peace – which means planning and executing on real nation building.

Getting stuck between the two Georges is a recipe for disaster...see Libya (that one’s really on the French and British not the Americans).

Shall we leave it there and go back to sailing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, d'ranger said:

Take it to PA

Fair enough, back to sailing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now