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If your crew is, in fact, racing your boat, why do they need a diversion?

 

However, bloopers are magic:  Put one up, gain a half a knot of boat speed.  Take one down, gain half a knot of boat speed.  Rinse and repeat.  Soon terminal velocity is achieved.  Go for it.

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they are really not that much fun and if nobody on board has never flown one, don't bother - it'll make you quit the sport!

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11 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

If your crew is, in fact, racing your boat, why do they need a diversion?

Our beer cans are informal, rabbit starts, we (as a club) take anyone and everyone as additional crew who wants to go,  it's a lot if fun and not taken seriously....maybe it's me that could use the distraction 

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55 minutes ago, Editor said:

they are really not that much fun and if nobody on board has never flown one, don't bother - it'll make you quit the sport!

All you have to remember is that the halyard is the sheet, the tack line is the halyard and the sheet is the tack.  

Then you you have to jibe.

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:
6 hours ago, Editor said:

they are really not that much fun and if nobody on board has never flown one, don't bother - it'll make you quit the sport!

All you have to remember is that the halyard is the sheet, the tack line is the halyard and the sheet is the tack.  

Then you you have to jibe.

They fly better if you reef the main, too

I think death-rolling is more fun

FB- Doug

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That was my job to fly it on my dads boats when i was a teenager 

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It's been so long since they were used that it might give you a psychological advantage - they do look impressive, that can't be denied.

"Look at the size of that thing - that's gotta be fast". :D

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S-10001 was Bla Carat, I think.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

Bloopers were pretty useful, especially DDW when it was windy, as they tended to damp the violent rolling.  Of course when (not if) the helmsman lost the plot, which was inevitable, the ensuing fustercluck was hugely amplified.  Especially if he went the "wrong way."

The blooper gybe (when it was carefully planned, and when it worked) was a good way to uncross halyards after two peels.  But that's another topic.

Happy days.

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Flying it way too high, it should be just above the waves. 

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Not much help on short downwind runs, but good on the longer legs.

And Orcrist is right; the foot should be just skimming the water, catching any breeze coming under the boom. A crew member needed to be trimming the halyard constantly to keep it flying there as the boat rolled.

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50 minutes ago, Orcrist said:

Flying it way too high, it should be just above the waves. 

Could just be the photo angle. 

 blooper.jpg.648bf1494b08790904636a8e15242583.jpg

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Adding unusable horsepower to a hull that is already digging the Marianna's Trench in the ocean is such a good idea.

Remember when hitting 12 knots on a 42'er was something to tell your kids about?  Then immediately afterwards, the driver would decide to give the spreaders a rinse off.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

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3 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

It's been so long since they were used that it might give you a psychological advantage - they do look impressive, that can't be denied.

"Look at the size of that thing - that's gotta be fast". :D

Are you sure a blooper isn’t a leading edge indicator of a floating decimal point.  My dad used to say those sorts of things....

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17 minutes ago, Amati said:

Are you sure a blooper isn’t a leading edge indicator of a floating decimal point.  My dad used to say those sorts of things....

Never heard of an IOR hull referred to as a decimal point, but it makes sense in a way.

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Every time there's a new threat about bloopers, I realize how old I'm getting to be.:lol:

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2 hours ago, hobot said:

Every time there's a new threat about bloopers, I realize how old I'm getting to be.:lol:

Freudian?

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5 hours ago, Left Shift said:

Adding unusable horsepower to a hull that is already digging the Marianna's Trench in the ocean is such a good idea.

Remember when hitting 12 knots on a 42'er was something to tell your kids about?  Then immediately afterwards, the driver would decide to give the spreaders a rinse off.

They don't make 'em like they used to.

 

Our J34 had a white mast and boom.  We toyed with painting the last six inches of the spreaders with Baltoplate.

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1 hour ago, Bus Driver said:

We toyed with painting the last six inches of the spreaders with Baltoplate.

Can you find an older joke?

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2 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Freudian?

I wish, that's actually a better descriptive word to use too.

I can only blame it on my screwed-up eyesight.

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I don't have pics, but one was flown on Lake Champlain this past weekend

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In light to moderate they are fast. SC 33 "Freight Train" in the SB2KH in the 80's

Look behind??????

Spin Graphics by the Lad and Swenson Sails.

 

freight_train.thumb.jpg.a38c1eb25fcd4282e400e7e305e01545.jpg

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On 6/24/2019 at 8:05 PM, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Can you find an older joke?

Did someone piss in your Cheerios?

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So, after reading all the SA threads on bloopers, and some prior experience on a 2T, we looked for one at the right price.  We found one, thanks to Bacon sails.  

To summarize the other threads.  

1. IOR style points, and photo ops.

2. It may increase speed if the boat is of the right era, well flown, etc.  

3. It won't work well on the wrong type of boat.  Modern hills and sail plans aren't likely to benefit.  

4.  One commenter stated  "The head is the clew, the clew is the tack, and the tack is the head."   (My favorite) 

5.  Some posts state best conditions to be light air. Others medium.  (See points 2 & 3 above).

6.  Some posts state stability gains, others state more of a mess when the inevitable broach happens.  (Again see 2 & 3 above).

Our recent experience: 

1.  It pairs well with a deep runner like a 2S.

2.  Ditch the sewn on bag and secure the bag to the staysail track.  Launch more like an asym.  Consider a modern rectangle bag to manage the corners.

3.  Consider a tack retrieval line for the douse.  

 

 

IMG_20180911_141955_816.jpg

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On 7/11/2019 at 11:02 PM, Something else said:

4.  One commenter stated  "The head is the clew, the clew is the tack, and the tack is the head."   (My favorite) 

goddamded ritte!                  :)

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On 7/11/2019 at 8:02 PM, Something else said:

4.  One commenter stated  "The head is the clew, the clew is the tack, and the tack is the head."   (My favorite) 

IMG_20180911_141955_816.jpg

Close, but for accuracy:  "All you have to remember is that the halyard is the sheet, the tack line is the halyard and the sheet is the tack."

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On ‎7‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 4:02 AM, Something else said:

We found one, thanks to Bacon sails.  

Am I the only person imagining the conversation in the loft during the first coffee break after you phoned them.

 

'I just had this *** bloke on the phone, and you would not believe what he wanted...'

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On 7/11/2019 at 8:02 PM, Something else said:

IMG_20180911_141955_816.jpg

I don't care if it's slow, fast or a cluster waiting to happen, it looks freakin fantastic.

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True dat.

Even better with a mizzen spinnaker and all colour coordinated.

Did anyone ever try a mizzen blooper on a ketch? :ph34r:

image.png.0fce546275d27215d4d04dd67be3e45f.png

image.png.1c0ab92aeccccbf437a07e3db2b8be47.png

A full on death roll broach with one of those things up must have been the clusterfuck to end them all.

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add wire sheets just for fun...

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On 7/15/2019 at 11:21 AM, SloopJonB said:

A full on death roll broach with one of those things up must have been the clusterfuck to end them all.

Here is a fun anecdote. The Ranger 37s were notorious for rolling, and in big breeze they were out of control until the blooper was up. At the BBS in San Francisco sometime around 1985 there were a lot of them (at least a dozen, maybe it was the One Ton Worlds or North Americans or something), and on one heavy air day as they bore off at the weather mark and the bow teams struggled to get the bloopers set each and every one of them rounded down immediately. There is an awesome aerial photo somewhere (used to be in the hallway outside the men's locker room at St.FYC) of a dozen Ranger 37s all rounded down simultaneously with spinnakers hoisted and bloopers part-way hoisted. Try sorting out that clusterfuck!

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17 minutes ago, Somebody Else said:

Seriously, why are we having this conversation?

Bloopers were an historical anomaly. Let them stay dead.

 

Let's not rush to judgment. Perhaps they were an anomaly, but many of us still sail historically anomalous boats. I have a mid-displacement, 1960's CCA boat. Does the blooper make us go faster through the water? Maybe - maybe not. It is hard to tell. But it means I can reliably drive the boat, aggressively, through waves 20 degrees of either side of DDW which in 25 knots isn't otherwise practical. And keeping the spreader tips dry has its own sort of elegant VMG.

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2 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Here is a fun anecdote. The Ranger 37s were notorious for rolling, and in big breeze they were out of control until the blooper was up. At the BBS in San Francisco sometime around 1985 there were a lot of them (at least a dozen, maybe it was the One Ton Worlds or North Americans or something), and on one heavy air day as they bore off at the weather mark and the bow teams struggled to get the bloopers set each and every one of them rounded down immediately. There is an awesome aerial photo somewhere (used to be in the hallway outside the men's locker room at St.FYC) of a dozen Ranger 37s all rounded down simultaneously with spinnakers hoisted and bloopers part-way hoisted. Try sorting out that clusterfuck!

Keep on rolling!

index.jpg.0573990293469902745925c357d913f8.jpg

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3 hours ago, Somebody Else said:

Seriously, why are we having this conversation?

Bloopers were an historical anomaly. Let them stay dead.

 

But they are fun!   It gives the masses something to talk about and thrills the uninitiated.

- Stumbling

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4 hours ago, SF Woody Sailor said:

Does the blooper make us go faster through the water? Maybe - maybe not. 

I'm not sure that faster was ever the purpose.  I think the purpose was to keep the boat pointing in approximately the right direction and moving through the water at all.

Will kids today ever crouch on the windward side deck wondering which way she's going to go and when?  Will the boat close to windward of you, or the one close to leeward of you go first, and which way will they go?  Sphincters must have been stronger in those days, couldn't do it now.

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Just when you think you've seen all blooper tricks, then this comes up.

images.jpeg.6c00952a6785c9077e70d659cdc7f7c5.jpeg

Think that is Flyer 1 nearing the finish of the 1977-78 Whitbread. Must have worked for them as they won that leg, and the race overall.

 

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42 minutes ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Just when you think you've seen all blooper tricks, then this comes up.

images.jpeg.6c00952a6785c9077e70d659cdc7f7c5.jpeg

Think that is Flyer 1 nearing the finish of the 1977-78 Whitbread. Must have worked for them as they won that leg, and the race overall.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Laser1 said:

 

Thank you.  There's a reality check reminder if we ever needed one, that things weren't really better in the old days.

Look at that big old IOR pig roll.  Can't believe they went all the way around the world like that.

 

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When they put the blooper up around 2: 14 it really illustrates how much they dampened rolling.

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3 hours ago, European Bloke said:

Thank you.  There's a reality check reminder if we ever needed one, that things weren't really better in the old days.

Look at that big old IOR pig roll.  Can't believe they went all the way around the world like that.

 

Rolling's fast!   Keeps the bottom paint evenly worn...

Also after the spinnaker fails, "off watch, get your sewing palms out!   You have to build a new head on the spinnaker!"

- Stumbling

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8 hours ago, European Bloke said:

I'm not sure that faster was ever the purpose.  I think the purpose was to keep the boat pointing in approximately the right direction and moving through the water at all.

No. It was for speed. Free sail area.

The roll damping was a side benefit.

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11 hours ago, Knut Grotzki said:

Keep on rolling!

index.jpg.0573990293469902745925c357d913f8.jpg

I know the owner of that boat...

Bigger pic:

Geen fotobeschrijving beschikbaar.

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Just now, daan62 said:

I know the owner of that boat...

Bigger pic:

Geen fotobeschrijving beschikbaar.

Afbeelding kan het volgende bevatten: oceaan, lucht, buiten en water

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So you need crew on the spin sheet, guy, pole height (foreguy and pole lift), blooper sheet, blooper halyard.  Depending on boat and wind grinder on the spin sheet and blooper sheet..

And it needs to be coordinated, all trimmers and helmsman reacting together.  Invariably the breeze either build or dies, then the blooper needs to come down, getting it all sorted out before you have to gybe or you get to the next mark. Good way to burn out the crew.

On 2 occasions, back in my old ior days, I was on boats that ended up wiping out with the blooper and doin some shrimpin.  

Bloopers suck.

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17 hours ago, Fiji Bitter said:

Just when you think you've seen all blooper tricks, then this comes up.

images.jpeg.6c00952a6785c9077e70d659cdc7f7c5.jpeg

Think that is Flyer 1 nearing the finish of the 1977-78 Whitbread. Must have worked for them as they won that leg, and the race overall.

 

Just a bit of a know-it-all reaction:  You'd think that after 25,000 miles they would have learned how to trim a kite.  Square the kite up and dampen it.  Stop letting the kite pull the boat around.  Pole back a foot or so, sheet on on during the rolls to weather, ease on the rolls to leeward.   Keep the kite in front of the boat and trim against the masthead motions.

Thankfully we don't have to sweat through that continuous death roll anymore.

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14 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Just a bit of a know-it-all reaction:  You'd think that after 25,000 miles they would have learned how to trim a kite.  Square the kite up and dampen it.  Stop letting the kite pull the boat around.  Pole back a foot or so, sheet on on during the rolls to weather.   Keep the kite in front of the boat and trim against the masthead motions.

Thankfully we don't have to sweat through that continuous death roll anymore.

I watched the video further up in the thread.   In th video, the original kite blew off of the head after the boat stuffed into the back of a wave.   They put the reacher, a standard jib, up after recovering from the spinnaker destruction.    That is a very non-standard combo of polled out reacher and blooper.    Even the blooper "trim" was off, ie carried too high.

The sail combo was just to get through the finish line.    The crew was probably a little spent at this point and was just thinking to get over the line and to the bar.

- Stumbling

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29 minutes ago, stumblingthunder said:

I watched the video further up in the thread.   In th video, the original kite blew off of the head after the boat stuffed into the back of a wave.   They put the reacher, a standard jib, up after recovering from the spinnaker destruction.    That is a very non-standard combo of polled out reacher and blooper.    Even the blooper "trim" was off, ie carried too high.

The sail combo was just to get through the finish line.    The crew was probably a little spent at this point and was just thinking to get over the line and to the bar.

- Stumbling

No problem with the blooper, and I've blown the head off kites a couple of times too many.  I was referring to the rail-to-rail rolling in the first minute of the vid.  That seemed just not good trimming.  But, yeah.  They were probably smelling the barn.

Mai Tais or Dark & Stormies are a magnetic force not to be resisted.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

No problem with the blooper, and I've blown the head off kites a couple of times too many.  I was referring to the rail-to-rail rolling in the first minute of the vid.  That seemed just not good trimming.  But, yeah.  They were probably smelling the barn.

Like Diamond Head setting a little kite off the mizzen halyard after dismasting and finishing Transpac backwards in the 60's.  

Mai Tais or Dark & Stormies are a magnetic force not to be resisted.

 

 

Aye, the draw of a "Bottle in front of me" can induce a "frontal lobotomy" (temporarily) in the execution department.

- Stumbling

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Here you have some sort   of "Blooper Guide for Nerds" printed in 1976

Blooper1.jpg

Blooper2.jpg

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We use to fly it (just for fun ) on weekends on our Frers half tonner ( some kind of "Samsara"´s little sister design of 1976, very popular in Argentina during those years).  It´s funny to see the others reaction when we hoist it .

VID_20190331_153640_Moment(2).jpg

55776223_2151982638255568_5840594994968133632_n.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Alejo said:

Here you have some sort   of "Blooper Guide for Nerds" printed in 1976

"It's the ridiculous looking jib that hangs opposite the chute like a drunk from a lamp post"

I love that!

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On 7/15/2019 at 2:21 PM, SloopJonB said:

True dat.

Even better with a mizzen spinnaker and all colour coordinated.

Did anyone ever try a mizzen blooper on a ketch? :ph34r:

image.png.0fce546275d27215d4d04dd67be3e45f.png

image.png.1c0ab92aeccccbf437a07e3db2b8be47.png

A full on death roll broach with one of those things up must have been the clusterfuck to end them all.

Yes it was very ugly

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On 6/30/2019 at 3:10 PM, DHFiend said:

For those that don't really understand the mess that these things were..... I think this is a great overhead shot i just stumbled over.

 

Bullfrog (1).JPG

Imp.  Fabulously well sailed boat.  Perfect trim in almost every photo ever.  They had well earned "rights" on that green and white spinnaker combo.  

Best blooper handling I ever saw was by the Aussies at the BBS in the early 80s.  The were right in front of us and came spinnaker reaching in breeze into the mark in front of St. Fancy bar and during their jibe to port peeled to a running kite and slapped the old kite halyard on the blooper set it within a couple of boat lengths.  I think the boat was Jumpin' Jack Flash   Let them run deep down the city front out of the current while we and everybody else was running by the lee on starboard trying to clear the piers and hoping not to round up on a roll. 

But nobody ever worked out a good system for jibing a blooper that I can recall without macrame-ing halyards 

 

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1 hour ago, Left Shift said:

Imp.  Fabulously well sailed boat.  Perfect trim in almost every photo ever.  They had well earned "rights" on that green and white spinnaker combo.  

Best blooper handling I ever saw was by the Aussies at the BBS in the early 80s.  The were right in front of us and came spinnaker reaching in breeze into the mark in front of St. Fancy bar and during their jibe to port peeled to a running kite and slapped the old kite halyard on the blooper set it within a couple of boat lengths.  I think the boat was Jumpin' Jack Flash   Let them run deep down the city front out of the current while we and everybody else was running by the lee on starboard trying to clear the piers and hoping not to round up on a roll. 

But nobody ever worked out a good system for jibing a blooper that I can recall without macrame-ing halyards 

 

Yeah, except that's not Imp - her sail number was 8990 and the hull colour (even on the transom) was graduated light to dark green.  8997 looks much larger than Imp, I think it was a Soverel 55 The Shadow...

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17 minutes ago, CriticalPath said:

Yeah, except that's not Imp - her sail number was 8990 and the hull colour (even on the transom) was graduated light to dark green.  8997 looks much larger than Imp, I think it was a Soverel 55 The Shadow...

Oooops!  I sort of remembered the sail number but I definitely missed the lack of color on the transom.  And that boat is definitely bigger than Imp.  

But wasn't The Shadow black with an image of "The Shadow" on the kite?  

th.jpeg

Imp bookcover.jpg

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5 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Oooops!  I definitely missed the lack of color on the transom.  And that boat is definitely bigger than Imp.  

But wasn't The Shadow black with an image of "The Shadow" on the kite?  

 

I dunno, Google brought me back to the fabulous old thread of Larry's:  "Some of my old sailing photos" - check out page 24 posts #2337 and #2340 - no idea if the info's correct, but do know that 8997 ain't Imp!

 

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25 minutes ago, Left Shift said:

Oooops!  I sort of remembered the sail number but I definitely missed the lack of color on the transom.  And that boat is definitely bigger than Imp.  

But wasn't The Shadow black with an image of "The Shadow" on the kite?  

th.jpeg

Imp bookcover.jpg

Not the Shadow either.  Most definitely the Peterson 55 Bullfrog http://rbsailing.blogspot.com/2018/05/bullfrog-peterson-55.html 

Although ironically she is shown sailing side by side with The Shadow during the Clipper Cup in one of the photos in the above link.

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