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DialedN_07

Well....I'm no longer a virgin

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Took my new to me Hobie 16 out for three days this weekend.  Super surprised how easy it is to actually fly a hull on these things (and easily control it).  I learned a lot of things to include:

Cosmetic condition does not equal quality: My trampoline ripped 18 inches on the port side.  Can't sail until I replace it (to be delivered tomorrow)
Solo righting can be done in wind, but not easily without a bag in no wind.  Thanks to the bass fishermen for the help (x2).
These F'n things are FAST.  When you hit that desired angle to the wind, it feels like a tow boat is yanking you forward.  It's magic! Fastest GPS speed so far is 17 knots.  Not sure I want to go much faster (yet)
4:1 purchase on a mainsheet is nowhere near adequate. 6:1 on the way along with the new trampoline.
Wind indicators are a must on a lake with swirling winds.  I got so confused with the wind it almost made me want to quit a few times, but eventually after digging the nose around, I'd find the sweet spot.
(Subjective) I'd rather sail my catamaran than my Catalina 22 or my 14.6ft dinghy!

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Welcome to the fun.  Jamming across the waves is a blast, and feeling the boat accelerate in a puff is addictive.  With the rocker inherent in H16 hulls, you'll be learning the importance of balancing your weight fore/aft, and will eventually be finding that fine bows can dig deep... but if you can keep the fun attitude displayed in this post, you'll be laughing and smiling as you do.  

Dick Newick once said: "People sail for fun, and no one has convinced me it’s more fun to go slow than to go fast.”
I can't disagree... and it feels even faster hiked out on the wire.

Randii

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34 minutes ago, randii said:

Welcome to the fun.  Jamming across the waves is a blast, and feeling the boat accelerate in a puff is addictive.  With the rocker inherent in H16 hulls, you'll be learning the importance of balancing your weight fore/aft, and will eventually be finding that fine bows can dig deep... but if you can keep the fun attitude displayed in this post, you'll be laughing and smiling as you do.  

Dick Newick once said: "People sail for fun, and no one has convinced me it’s more fun to go slow than to go fast.”
I can't disagree... and it feels even faster hiked out on the wire.

Randii

The boat came with double trap wires but on closer inspection the wires looked great, but the metal eye that was swagged in looked a bit over-sized for the wire diameter.  I decided not to chance it and just removed them from the boat for my first few sails.  My new double trap lines (with single wire looped around an eye at the top) were delivered today just before lunch.  So I'm all set there.  Just have to find a decent harness now.

Sounds like that ol' Dick Newick is my kind of guy!

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1 hour ago, patmo141 said:

As they say, once you pop, the fun don't stop.

@patmo141, where are you located in NC?
I'm in Fayetteville, sail at Lake Waccamaw and Holden Beach

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The 16 is a great boat. It came stock with a Seaway 6:1 mainsheet system, but the trick upgrade was the Harken 8:1 low profile. Very much worth it. You could then buy short shrouds, rake the hell out of the mast, and increase upwind speed by a lot.

They're ancient now but the best books on sailing these things are still Jack Sammon's Welcome to A-Fleet, vol 1 and 2 from the 70s. That was when the 16 was king and all the hot cat sailors had one. Lots of useful tips about boatspeed in vol 1. Even if you're an experienced sailor it's worth it, the 16 is a unique boat. It doesn't go to windward like any other boat I know of, and you don't tune it like a normal boat.

Have fun! I sold mine in the mid-90s and I still miss it.

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16 hours ago, KONeill said:

The 16 is a great boat. It came stock with a Seaway 6:1 mainsheet system, but the trick upgrade was the Harken 8:1 low profile. Very much worth it. You could then buy short shrouds, rake the hell out of the mast, and increase upwind speed by a lot.

They're ancient now but the best books on sailing these things are still Jack Sammon's Welcome to A-Fleet, vol 1 and 2 from the 70s. That was when the 16 was king and all the hot cat sailors had one. Lots of useful tips about boatspeed in vol 1. Even if you're an experienced sailor it's worth it, the 16 is a unique boat. It doesn't go to windward like any other boat I know of, and you don't tune it like a normal boat.

Have fun! I sold mine in the mid-90s and I still miss it.

@KONeill I'm not much of a reader, but Vol 1 definitely sounds like something I could get into.  As my screen name implies, I like to "Dial In" everything I have until it exceeds my personal ability level, then I'll try to work up to that point, and do it all again.

The one thing I do not know a lot about right now is mast rake.  I just purchased the 6:1 and I'll see how that goes for a bit before trying to change anything else, but mostly I want to get out on the water and toss the thing around a bit!

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I had mine out this past week for the first time in several years.  I got the same thrill that I got when I first bought one in 1978.  

It's a 6:1.  If you need an 8. you are a wimp.

See the Hobie Forum.

 

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15 hours ago, Fat Point Jack said:

I had mine out this past week for the first time in several years.  I got the same thrill that I got when I first bought one in 1978.  

It's a 6:1.  If you need an 8. you are a wimp.

See the Hobie Forum.

 

agreed definitely shouldn't need to go past 6:1.  The 16 doesn't have a a leech needing support.

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Talk to people who race them, OP. There's a discussion of the Seaway 6:1 vs the Harken 8:1 here for example:

https://www.hobie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=60000

Not sure what you mean by

14 hours ago, SCARECROW said:

The 16 doesn't have a a leech needing support.

You use the main on the 16 the same way you do on a bigger multi with a roachy main.

Anyway, do what you like, it's a nice boat either way. But the trick setup on a 16 for a few decades now has been the Harken low profile.

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Switched out to the 6:1 this weekend and I would probably agree, the 6:1 has got to be the way to go.  I could tell a difference in pull weight and pull distance on both.

Going to 8:1 would take so much pull distance that I think it would defeat the purpose of the reduced weight needed to sheet in.
The first 6:1 that I got the ratchet was broken, and having the ratchet operate properly is key.

Also, two people on the boat allows you to go SO MUCH FASTER than with just one.  Helps keep the boat sailing flat(ter).
I'm really coming to like this boat and now unfortunately have started spending money on it. :(

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9 hours ago, DialedN_07 said:

Switched out to the 6:1 this weekend and I would probably agree, the 6:1 has got to be the way to go.  I could tell a difference in pull weight and pull distance on both.

Going to 8:1 would take so much pull distance that I think it would defeat the purpose of the reduced weight needed to sheet in.
The first 6:1 that I got the ratchet was broken, and having the ratchet operate properly is key.

Also, two people on the boat allows you to go SO MUCH FASTER than with just one.  Helps keep the boat sailing flat(ter).
I'm really coming to like this boat and now unfortunately have started spending money on it. :(

I've never seen an 8:1 on a Hobie 16.  Some of the local juniors convert their 6:1 to 7:1 but only for small kids.  6:1 is all that is needed.  Definitely need the ratchet!

Solo on the H16 is a blast in light winds.  I weigh 70kg so anything over 10 knots and she is overpowered. 

But their is nothing better than 15-20 knots double trapped and sending it!

Depending on how old it is sometimes it's cheaper to just buy a newer boat!  I started with a mid 70's boat, then a 1998 and now a 2011.  I'm still spending money on them haha.

 

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3 hours ago, dave202 said:

I've never seen an 8:1 on a Hobie 16.  Some of the local juniors convert their 6:1 to 7:1 but only for small kids.  6:1 is all that is needed.  Definitely need the ratchet!

 

^^ what he said ^^ 

Key to H16 performance has always been getting max rake.  Too big back blocks would reduce the amount of rake you can get before going block to block.

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4 hours ago, dave202 said:

 

Depending on how old it is sometimes it's cheaper to just buy a newer boat!  I started with a mid 70's boat, then a 1998 and now a 2011.  I'm still spending money on them haha.

 

Great video.  Looks like you've got that thing Dialed in pretty good.

Thanks for sharing.

Travelers all the way out double trap and still lifting.  Super cool!

PS.  Anything that can be done to keep the Lee bow out on those downwind runs? Looks like you were both as far back as you could get.

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1 hour ago, SCARECROW said:

^^ what he said ^^ 

Key to H16 performance has always been getting max rake.  Too big back blocks would reduce the amount of rake you can get before going block to block.

I wouldn't mine learning a bit more about the take thing.  That's something that has been secondary to just getting out there a d learning by doing.

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6 or 8, the big deal is to reduce the stack height so you can rake the mast. In higher wind areas or when kids are running the mainsheet people put 8:1 on them, if you don't want that it's fine, but you want low stack height.

Raking the mast puts the center of effort further aft.

When you go go windward get out on the traps and move forward on the boat (CAREFULLY). This puts the center of lateral resistance forward. This puts the boat out of balance, the CE is way behind the CLR, it wants to head up a lot. This is why the H16 is different from any other boat, you don't want to balance it and use the rudder as little as possible like on a dinghy. You want to load up the rudders as much as you can, and dig the bows in.

So you move the CE aft with mast rake, you move the CLR forward by moving forward a little on the traps until only about 6" of bow is showing. Then the tiller wants to tear your arm off. So the last thing to do is balance the rudders so you get a little bit of tiller pressure, but not so much that it's not nice to sail.

All this is because it has no board in the middle. On a dinghy you balance the boat as much as you can to load up the board, which has a higher aspect ratio than the rudder, usually. But on the H16 there's no board. So you dig the bows in and load up the rudders, since they're the highest AR thing in the water. This helps windward performance a lot.

But when you rake the mast enough you can't sheet in all the way unless you have low profile blocks on it.

Low profile, then rake the mast as far as you can so you can still sheet in tight, then rake the rudders forward so you don't get huge tiller pressure, then learn how far forward on the boat you can move when going to windward. You'll get wet a few times, the bows are pretty low volume. But when you get it it's great, large increase in upwind speed.

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18 hours ago, DialedN_07 said:

Great video.  Looks like you've got that thing Dialed in pretty good.

Thanks for sharing.

Travelers all the way out double trap and still lifting.  Super cool!

PS.  Anything that can be done to keep the Lee bow out on those downwind runs? Looks like you were both as far back as you could get.

I think it's the Jib sheet you are seeing that makes the main traveller look like it is all the way out.  On those downwind runs I had the spinnaker flying (the big white sail at the front) and when that's up I have the main traveller just eased off centre slightly so it's hidden from view behind the mast.  When you're pushing hard sometimes there is nothing you can do to keep the bows out.  Pitchpoling (or avoiding) is part of the challenge and a fun part of a Hobie 16 sailing in my opinion.

The fleet I race in has a number of National Champions and even a World Champion so over the years I've picked up numerous boat setup tips so my boat is pretty well setup.  Mast rake is a large factor while still maintaining good sheet tension and having well tuned Rudders is a must!  

Some more fun footage just for the hell of it ;) 

 

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@DialedN_07 If you listen to @dave202 too much, he'll eventually convince you to move to Australia for Hobie 16 sailing... 

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The Puerto RIcans got the H-16 dialed in a long time ago. Kiko Figueroa and his gang put double stay adjusters on the jib stay and worked out some super low profile mainsheet and just hauled in until they were two blocked and trapped right off the back and went to windward like no body's  business!

   

Enrique Figueroa
Personal information
Full name Enrique Figueroa Suárez
Nickname(s) Quique
Nationality Puerto Rican
Born February 25, 1964 (age 55)
San Juan, Puerto Rico
Spouse(s) Carla Malatrasi

   

Here a a photo from the 2018 H-16 Champs in Ft Walton showing the extreme rake.

Image may contain: ocean, sky, boat, mountain, outdoor, water and nature

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9 hours ago, BboySlug said:

@DialedN_07 If you listen to @dave202 too much, he'll eventually convince you to move to Australia for Hobie 16 sailing... 

Worked out well enough for you :D 

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I loved the 3-fleet 16 competition racing (A,B,C) back in the day.  Led to big biceps! This was way before modern, dramatically thickness-reduced mainsheet tapered lines, which really help mainsheet work in other hi-speed classes (A-class/ foilers).   

 

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