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US is no longer a reliable ally

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Defence analyst claims the US is no longer a reliable ally

Posted about 4 hours ago

Quote

One of Australia’s leading defence analysts has warned the nation must dramatically increase military spending because the united states is no longer a reliable ally.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-02/defence-analyst-claims-the-us-is-no-longer-reliable-ally/11269962

 

...............................

 

Quote

 

"I think [a] really fundamental shift in Australia's strategic situation is taking place," Professor White told the ABC.

"For the first time really since European settlement of this continent we can no longer assume that we'll have a great and powerful friend [Britain first, then America] as the dominant power in Asia, as the strongest military power in Asia."

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-07-02/australia-submarine-aircraft-defence-spending-china-dominance/11269412

 

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32 minutes ago, Mid said:

Isn't it a net win-win for former allies who won't have to enter unpopular wars and bear ridiculous costs associated with fighting wars with the United States?

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It took him until now to figure that out?

Someone should fire his incompetent ass.

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1 hour ago, Rat's ass said:

I'm sure Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Raytheon etc. will be more than happy to provide a quote. $-) 

What if they want airplanes and ships that actually work?    

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8 minutes ago, Lark said:

What if they want airplanes and ships that actually work?    

Oh that bit comes with the after market service contract, didn't you know.......

Those F35's are a bitch to work on when you can't see them....

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This is a bit of hyperbole and a lot of nonsense.

Australia only spends less than 2% of their GDP on defense, and that's with a 16,000 mile coastline, some 20% more coastline than the United States, and all of it "invadable." On the other hand, an enormous chunk of the U.S. coastline is Alaska, most of which is essentially useless is an invasion because it's either frozen or cut off from the mainland.

If Australia actually came close to what they would need to spend to rationally defend their country without the 600 lb. gorilla of of the $650,000,000,000 U.S. Defense spend, then they would have to hover somewhere around 8% of their GDP. Their quality of life, high literacy, excellent public health, terrific social programs, would plummet as they were forced to live lean as their relatively tiny population had to support an internal defense.

It's not going to happen, the U.S. will defend Australia at all costs, probably right up to the use of nukes if necessary. It's in our national DNA, along with Britain, and Canada. Australia is a first tier ally, the second tier allies still have an incredibly valuable rank, but they are countries like Mexico, Israel, Switzerland, New Zealand and Ireland.

In fact, according to U.S. Conservatives (the people that many Australians seem to dislike for some reason) rank Australia as the Number 1 (!!!) ally ... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/03/upshot/which-country-do-americans-like-most-for-republicans-its-australia.html

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30 minutes ago, mikewof said:

In fact, according to U.S. Conservatives (the people that many Australians seem to dislike for some reason) rank Australia as the Number 1 (!!!) ally ... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/03/upshot/which-country-do-americans-like-most-for-republicans-its-australia.html

As if most Australians care if US Republicans LIKE them.  It's embarrassing to have those people on the same planet.

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39 minutes ago, mikewof said:

This is a bit of hyperbole and a lot of nonsense.

Australia only spends less than 2% of their GDP on defense, and that's with a 16,000 mile coastline, some 20% more coastline than the United States, and all of it "invadable."

That demonstrates how little you know about Australia, really.

Invading most of our coastline gets you nowhere as long as we could cut off resupply. It's a hell of a long way to anywhere on the west and most of the south coast, a good deal of the north coast as well. Plus no or really lousy roads and no supplies to support more than a handful of invaders.

Could it be done? Sure, but only with one hell of a logistic tail. I don't lose much sleep over it.

It is why I was very much in favour of leasing/buying US made nuke subs though rather than pissing money down a South Australian rat hole building our own. But that has a lot of legs yet. At least your subs actually work, unlike some of your aircraft.....

FKT

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50 minutes ago, mikewof said:

This is a bit of hyperbole and a lot of nonsense.

Australia only spends less than 2% of their GDP on defense, and that's with a 16,000 mile coastline, some 20% more coastline than the United States, and all of it "invadable." On the other hand, an enormous chunk of the U.S. coastline is Alaska, most of which is essentially useless is an invasion because it's either frozen or cut off from the mainland.

If Australia actually came close to what they would need to spend to rationally defend their country without the 600 lb. gorilla of of the $650,000,000,000 U.S. Defense spend, then they would have to hover somewhere around 8% of their GDP. Their quality of life, high literacy, excellent public health, terrific social programs, would plummet as they were forced to live lean as their relatively tiny population had to support an internal defense.

It's not going to happen, the U.S. will defend Australia at all costs, probably right up to the use of nukes if necessary. It's in our national DNA, along with Britain, and Canada. Australia is a first tier ally, the second tier allies still have an incredibly valuable rank, but they are countries like Mexico, Israel, Switzerland, New Zealand and Ireland.

In fact, according to U.S. Conservatives (the people that many Australians seem to dislike for some reason) rank Australia as the Number 1 (!!!) ally ... https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/02/03/upshot/which-country-do-americans-like-most-for-republicans-its-australia.html

yeah, our satellite thingys and installations like pine gap might have something to do with that..what would you do without us?:rolleyes: 

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52 minutes ago, mikewof said:

Australia only spends less than 2% of their GDP on defense, and that's with a 16,000 mile coastline, some 20% more coastline than the United States, and all of it "invadable."

The evil Seppo's get upset that the Aussie government doesn't spend more.  They get out their spreadsheets to calculate commission on different sales figures.

Then they send out the message to get every country to spend 2% and we will all be rich!

maxresdefault.jpg

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I think spending 2% of GDP on defense is a great idea and the US should absolutely do it.

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7 hours ago, random said:

As if most Australians care if US Republicans LIKE them.  It's embarrassing to have those people on the same planet.

It seems to be the case of a houseplant in an office that is lovingly cared and protected, but the houseplant secretly harbors a grudge against the humans for their Casual Fridays..

I am regularly intrigued at how off-the-map Australia is with most North Americans, we tend to understand your culture in terms of our own. I guess the population is so low that we rarely meet any of you folks here.

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7 hours ago, Shortforbob said:

yeah, our satellite thingys and installations like pine gap might have something to do with that..what would you do without us?:rolleyes: 

You're suggesting that some downlink technology at Pine Gap and some polar orbiting tech is actually the reason that American Conservatives place Australia as our number one ally?

Uh ...

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7 hours ago, random said:

The evil Seppo's get upset that the Aussie government doesn't spend more.  They get out their spreadsheets to calculate commission on different sales figures.

Then they send out the message to get every country to spend 2% and we will all be rich!

maxresdefault.jpg

I would prefer if we all spent 0%. I share Ike's distrust of the whole mess.

You're preaching to the choir.

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3 minutes ago, mikewof said:

You're suggesting that some downlink technology at Pine Gap and some polar orbiting tech is actually the reason that American Conservatives place Australia as our number one ally?

Uh ...

You're suggesting it's altruism?

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That demonstrates how little you know about Australia, really.

Invading most of our coastline gets you nowhere as long as we could cut off resupply. It's a hell of a long way to anywhere on the west and most of the south coast, a good deal of the north coast as well. Plus no or really lousy roads and no supplies to support more than a handful of invaders.

Could it be done? Sure, but only with one hell of a logistic tail. I don't lose much sleep over it.

It is why I was very much in favour of leasing/buying US made nuke subs though rather than pissing money down a South Australian rat hole building our own. But that has a lot of legs yet. At least your subs actually work, unlike some of your aircraft.....

FKT

Coastline is a just a common measure of defense costs.

Subs are very hard to build. The welding necessary requires a kind of dedicated industry.

As an aside, I used to live next to HMAS Kattabul, literally, my window gave me a constant view of their drills and activities, maybe twenty feet away, if that. Australians seem to have a subtly different approach with their military, down to the human interaction level. There was a kind of compassion to the recruits that I'm not used to seeing here.

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26 minutes ago, Shortforbob said:

You're suggesting it's altruism?

No, I think it's mostly historical and cultural.

Your population is so small, and your country so far away that it can't really be too much else. My uncle was the prototype of that. His number one ally would have been Australia because he spent most of his career flying missions around the South Pacific, and Australia was something of an oasis of shared culture, far away from home.

The old joke is that New Zealand is the most British place on Earth, and Australia is the most American place on Earth. From the perspective of cultural touchstones, like massive football games, mobile phones, car racing, barbeques, suburban culture, brewing beer, getting addicted to shit television shows, and getting in over our heads with debt to live the good life, Australia and the USA are probably more similar than even the USA and Canada.

Just the fact that so many Americans place our number one Ally as a country over 10,000 miles away, rather than the Canadians and Mexicans who are right next door, should tell you something. Heck, Mexicans love us so much that they literally build our homes, grow our food and keep everything running while we put them in prison and insult them. 

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6 hours ago, mikewof said:

No, I think it's mostly historical and cultural.

Your population is so small, and your country so far away that it can't really be too much else. My uncle was the prototype of that. His number one ally would have been Australia because he spent most of his career flying missions around the South Pacific, and Australia was something of an oasis of shared culture, far away from home.

The old joke is that New Zealand is the most British place on Earth, and Australia is the most American place on Earth. From the perspective of cultural touchstones, like massive football games, mobile phones, car racing, barbeques, suburban culture, brewing beer, getting addicted to shit television shows, and getting in over our heads with debt to live the good life, Australia and the USA are probably more similar than even the USA and Canada.

Just the fact that so many Americans place our number one Ally as a country over 10,000 miles away, rather than the Canadians and Mexicans who are right next door, should tell you something. Heck, Mexicans love us so much that they literally build our homes, grow our food and keep everything running while we put them in prison and insult them. 

I've lived & worked in the USA probably as long or longer than you did in Australia, and I saw about the same amount geographically, I suspect. IOW, bugger-all.

There's a hell of a lot of shared culture & outlook, sure. But there are also some really stark differences. Health care being a prime example, and the general willingness of the population to permit total fucking over of nearly everyone by the 1%. We have a lot more corporate & consumer laws with teeth, as a number of companies in the finance sector have recently found out.

Frankly since 9/11 I think the USA has severely lost the plot and is becoming a downright danger to its allies as well as its enemies. You've grown the 'if you are not with us then you must be against us' mindset.

I'd rather partner with Singapore and some of the other SE Asian countries to form a decent trading bloc. You guys have gotten far too dangerous & unpredictable.

FKT

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1 hour ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

I've lived & worked in the USA probably as long or longer than you did in Australia, and I saw about the same amount geographically, I suspect. IOW, bugger-all.

There's a hell of a lot of shared culture & outlook, sure. But there are also some really stark differences. Health care being a prime example, and the general willingness of the population to permit total fucking over of nearly everyone by the 1%. We have a lot more corporate & consumer laws with teeth, as a number of companies in the finance sector have recently found out.

Frankly since 9/11 I think the USA has severely lost the plot and is becoming a downright danger to its allies as well as its enemies. You've grown the 'if you are not with us then you must be against us' mindset.

I'd rather partner with Singapore and some of the other SE Asian countries to form a decent trading bloc. You guys have gotten far too dangerous & unpredictable.

FKT

 I noticed a subtle difference in Australia too ... It seems a fundamentally more obedient society than we have here. There is good and bad in that. Singapore is the model of that obedience. It's a country largely filled with ethnic Chinese, and they follow the rules.

The idea of aligning with Asia was something a lot of folks pushed when I lived there. It might work.

If you think you can convince your countrymen to throw off the yoke of our American tax money pipeline, then godspeed, we definitely need the money more than you do. We need at least fifty years of focusing inward, and that's expensive to do.

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39 minutes ago, mikewof said:

 I noticed a subtle difference in Australia too ... It seems a fundamentally more obedient society than we have here.

You see, there you have the problem.

It is nothing about 'Obedience'.  It is about a Willingness to Cooperate.  That is very very different.  The fact that you do not understand that, as an American, supports my point.

This country has a higher percentage o people willing to act for the benefit of the community.  The USA has a higher percentage of people only interested in their individual welfare ... fuck you, I got mine.

You don't get it Mikey, but I will just add that to the list for you.

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10 minutes ago, random said:

You see, there you have the problem.

It is nothing about 'Obedience'.  It is about a Willingness to Cooperate.  That is very very different.  The fact that you do not understand that, as an American, supports my point.

This country has a higher percentage o people willing to act for the benefit of the community.  The USA has a higher percentage of people only interested in their individual welfare ... fuck you, I got mine.

You don't get it Mikey, but I will just add that to the list for you.

Well said.

FKT

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8 hours ago, mikewof said:

The old joke is that New Zealand is the most British place on Earth, and Australia is the most American place on Earth.

Who's old joke is that Norm? It's not as funny a joke as someone invading australia via gnaraloo.....

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16 minutes ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Who's old joke is that Norm? It's not as funny a joke as someone invading australia via gnaraloo.....

The only joke there is Mikey, simultaneously un-funni and wrong.

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5 hours ago, random said:

You see, there you have the problem.

It is nothing about 'Obedience'.  It is about a Willingness to Cooperate.  That is very very different.  The fact that you do not understand that, as an American, supports my point.

This country has a higher percentage o people willing to act for the benefit of the community.  The USA has a higher percentage of people only interested in their individual welfare ... fuck you, I got mine.

You don't get it Mikey, but I will just add that to the list for you.

That's fine, no disagreement. Fuck you Random, I got mine. It's the nature of our semi-Anarchic American paradise. A lot of us like it this way.

The part that consistently amuses me though is that these threads tend to fill up with a bunch of Australians (why is it always Australians?) complaining about America, while simultaneously, the vast majority of Americans cannot give two squirts about the Australian contingent. The only reason why I'm something of an artificial and remarkably dysfunctional spokesman for some of my American brothers is just because I happened to have spent a chunk of my life in Oz and I enjoyed the experience. 

But feel free to lick the lightning rod, it seems to make some people feel better.

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15 minutes ago, mikewof said:

That's fine, no disagreement. Fuck you Random, I got mine. It's the nature of our semi-Anarchic American paradise. A lot of us like it this way.

The part that consistently amuses me though is that these threads tend to fill up with a bunch of Australians (why is it always Australians?) complaining about America, while simultaneously, the vast majority of Americans cannot give two squirts about the Australian contingent. The only reason why I'm something of an artificial and remarkably dysfunctional spokesman for some of my American brothers is just because I happened to have spent a chunk of my life in Oz and I enjoyed the experience. 

But feel free to lick the lightning rod, it seems to make some people feel better.

The vast majority of Americans think Australia is a small country in Europe - if they even 'know' that much geography.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The vast majority of Americans think Australia is a small country in Europe - if they even 'know' that much geography.

FKT

You might not want to form your worldview from The Chasers crack editing team.

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Just now, mikewof said:

You might not want The Chasers crack editing team convince you of something that is a fiction. 

The what??? Are you telling me the vast majority of Americans don't even think *that*? I keep reading that educational standards are dropping but really.....

FKT

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2 minutes ago, mikewof said:

You might not want to form your worldview from The Chasers crack editing team.

Nah, the POTUS is a prime example of the ignorant and proud of it american, the best the US has to offer.

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27 minutes ago, mikewof said:

The part that consistently amuses me though is that these threads tend to fill up with a bunch of Australians (why is it always Australians?) complaining about America, while simultaneously, the vast majority of Americans cannot give two squirts about the Australian contingent.

Hahahahaaaaaa

tenor.gif?itemid=6165317

That's one of the best "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE" examples I've seen for a while.

Consider this though, none of us give two fucks what you think, we just like telling you how fucked you are.

 

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6 hours ago, random said:

You see, there you have the problem.

It is nothing about 'Obedience'.  It is about a Willingness to Cooperate.  That is very very different.  The fact that you do not understand that, as an American, supports my point.

This country has a higher percentage o people willing to act for the benefit of the community.  The USA has a higher percentage of people only interested in their individual welfare ... fuck you, I got mine.

You don't get it Mikey, but I will just add that to the list for you.

It's hard for me to get past my American blindness and see the community benefit of grabbers confiscating collections of disabled guns from museums.

It looks a heck of a lot more like some Aussies don't see the benefit either, but are, well, obedient is a good word.

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15 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

It's hard for me to get past my American blindness and see the community benefit of grabbers confiscating collections of disabled guns from museums.

It looks a heck of a lot more like some Aussies don't see the benefit either, but are, well, obedient is a good word.

As far as I can tell, America gifted the world trolls and shills like you Tommy-boi.  And how fucked is that?

An entire industry devoted to managing the message, the brand, the product, disrupting conversations of thinking people.  Creating names like 'grabbers'. Infiltrating forums that have nothing to do with Gunz.

But why should I care, people like Tom don't.  The children can die as ling as they can have gunz.

Children Killed or Injured in 2019

 

Incident Datesort ascending State City Or County Address # Killed # Injured Operations
July 1, 2019 Ohio Cleveland 3800 block of E 186th St 0 1
July 1, 2019 Georgia Warner Robins 200 block of Strawbridge Ln 0 1
July 1, 2019 New York Rochester Ripley St 0 3
June 30, 2019 Arizona Glendale 5531 N 61st Lane 2 0
June 30, 2019 District of Columbia Washington 800 block of Southern Ave SE 0 3
June 30, 2019 Georgia Decatur 2823 Misty Waters Dr 0 1
June 30, 2019 Louisiana Lafayette 100 block of Northern Ave 1 0
June 29, 2019 Arizona Green Valley I 19 and E Esperanza Rd 1 2
June 29, 2019 Texas Tyler 1400 block of S Glenwood Blvd 0 2
June 28, 2019 Louisiana Shreveport 3800 block of Elmer Ln 1 0
June 28, 2019 Connecticut New Haven Thompson St 0 1
June 28, 2019 Indiana Indianapolis 2900 block of Barnes Ave 0 1
June 27, 2019 Texas Fort Worth 2105 Sanborn St 0 2
June 27, 2019 Tennessee Nashville 1100 block of Joseph Ave 0 1
June 27, 2019 Georgia Gainesville 4821 Poplar Springs Rd 2 0
June 26, 2019 Tennessee Memphis 1515 N Watkins St 0 1
June 25, 2019 Kentucky Danville 29 JE Woods Dr 0 1
June 24, 2019 Florida Jacksonville 11000 Block of Alexandra Dr 0 1
June 24, 2019 Tennessee Memphis 3670 Pershing Park Dr 1 0
June 24, 2019 Florida Port Saint Lucie 1900 SE Hillmoor Dr 2 1
June 24, 2019 Texas Houston 5000 block of Paradise Ln 0 1
June 23, 2019 California Fresno 5th Street and Hammond Ave 0 1
June 23, 2019 California Oakland 2311 Embarcadero 0 1
June 23, 2019 New Mexico Chaparral 442 Escondido St 0 1
June 23, 2019 South Carolina Anderson 1209 West End Ave 1 2

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4 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

It's hard for me to get past my American blindness and see the community benefit of grabbers confiscating collections of disabled guns from museums.

It looks a heck of a lot more like some Aussies don't see the benefit either, but are, well, obedient is a good word.

Oh look, the troll crawled out from under the bridge to a new thread in part of his morning shitposting spree to exaggerate and lie about the same stale bullshit. Now run along and bump another thread.

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6 hours ago, random said:

Hahahahaaaaaa

tenor.gif?itemid=6165317

That's one of the best "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE" examples I've seen for a while.

Consider this though, none of us give two fucks what you think, we just like telling you how fucked you are.

 

If you are even half as annoying as that GIF, then you haven't been laid in 36 years.

Look Random, the reason that Australia isn't really on the radar of Americans is because you have a country that is far away from the Northern Hemisphere, with a relatively small population. Other than a good showing in the Olympics, we tend not to see many Australian products, few Australian tv shows, very little Australian culture.

What reason do you think that so many Americans list you guys as our top ally while having so little connection to you?  Don't hate the player, hate the game.

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7 hours ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

The what??? Are you telling me the vast majority of Americans don't even think *that*? I keep reading that educational standards are dropping but really.....

FKT

We know where Australia is, regardless The Chasers. It's just you don't give us much to form an opinion, you're a small country. So we have an idealized view of Australia, and since it's so far away, and so few of us have actually been there, we leave it at that. We rarely need to challenge our ideas of Australia because there is so little Australia in our lives to challenge our assumptions.

Australians have a more expansive view of the USA because you consume our culture. We're enormous compared to you.

But what happens when I apply the same population ratio of USA:Australia (about 13:1) to Australia? What do most Australians think of Equatorial Guinea or Gambia? Can Australians pick out Latvia on an unmarked map better than Americans can pick out the Continent of Australia on a map?

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

What reason do you think that so many Americans list you guys as our top ally while having so little connection to you? 

  • Because we have been stupid enough to get dragged into every illegal invasion the US has been part of.
  • Because we are a very large aircraft carrier floating in a strategically important part of the planet.

But think about the flaw in your argument.  First you say the 'so many Americans list you guys as a top ally", then you acknowledge that most Americans know fuck all about us, other than sporting cliches?

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

What reason do you think that so many Americans list you guys as our top ally while having so little connection to you?

Outback steak house. And Paul Hogan.

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On 7/2/2019 at 5:26 AM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That demonstrates how little you know about Australia, really.

Invading most of our coastline gets you nowhere as long as we could cut off resupply. It's a hell of a long way to anywhere on the west and most of the south coast, a good deal of the north coast as well. Plus no or really lousy roads and no supplies to support more than a handful of invaders.

Could it be done? Sure, but only with one hell of a logistic tail. I don't lose much sleep over it.

It is why I was very much in favour of leasing/buying US made nuke subs though rather than pissing money down a South Australian rat hole building our own. But that has a lot of legs yet. At least your subs actually work, unlike some of your aircraft.....

FKT

Oh come on.  It's MikefullofbloviatingBS.  Just point out that the idea that someone would "invade" another country like that across any stretch of water like that is absurd, and watch him dance trying to prove you wrong.

This isn't 1944, and people have ways of seeing boats long before they get to your shoreline to "invade".

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Outback steak house. And Paul Hogan.

Foster's.  It's Australian for Beer.  (snicker)

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34 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Foster's.  It's Australian for Beer.  (snicker)

Actually, it's the beer we export because nobody in Australia will drink it.

FKT

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40 minutes ago, Grrr... said:

Oh come on.  It's MikefullofbloviatingBS.  Just point out that the idea that someone would "invade" another country like that across any stretch of water like that is absurd, and watch him dance trying to prove you wrong.

This isn't 1944, and people have ways of seeing boats long before they get to your shoreline to "invade".

We're happy to sell commodities to whoever has the cash to pay; that's a lot cheaper than invading to take the stuff.

I'll give Mikey the point that the average Aussie couldn't point out where nearly any African country was on a map (most couldn't point out any Euro one either) but we don't think about them *at all* unless we're taking a bunch of refugees from there. They're not a close ally who's supported us militarily, never have been and likely never will be. They're also not a significant trading partner.

Don't misunderstand though - I'm quite happy that most of the USA doesn't know we exist or where we are. I just think it's funny when Mikey starts off on one of his diatribes.

FKT

Edited by Fah Kiew Tu
typo

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1 hour ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:

Outback steak house. And Paul Hogan.

Elle Macpherson. 

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32 minutes ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:

Actually, it's the beer we export because nobody in Australia will drink it.

FKT

I just checked and you import Lone Star Beer. Good on ya for keeping Milo Yiannopoulos out but really, Lone Star?

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Just now, Olsonist said:

I just checked and you import Lone Star Beer. Good on ya for keeping Milo Yiannopoulos out but really, Lone Star?

Probably it's for ex-pats. Can't say I've ever seen any.

FKT

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1 minute ago, Fah Kiew Tu said:
2 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I just checked and you import Lone Star Beer. Good on ya for keeping Milo Yiannopoulos out but really, Lone Star?

Probably it's for ex-pats. Can't say I've ever seen any.

Never heard of it, never seen it, must be for an American Bar somewhere, US Base in Darwin?

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15 minutes ago, Olsonist said:

I just checked and you import Lone Star Beer. Good on ya for keeping Milo Yiannopoulos out but really, Lone Star?

Up to a few years ago, Lone Star was brewed by Olympia in WA.  Then moved to Heilmanns in Wisconsin.  

Mmmmm, that authentic taste of Texas 

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On 7/2/2019 at 5:14 AM, random said:

As if most Australians care if US Republicans LIKE them.  It's embarrassing to have those people on the same planet.

Well most American's don't really give a fuck about Australian Liberal's - just saying 

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20 hours ago, mikewof said:

The part that consistently amuses me though is that these threads tend to fill up with a bunch of Australians (why is it always Australians?) complaining about America, while simultaneously, the vast majority of Americans cannot give two squirts about the Australian contingent.

With that statement you officially labelled yourself a right winger.

They are the only ones too clueless to understand why the rest of the world is so interested in what goes on in the USA.

They are also the only ones too ignorant to know or care about what goes on in the rest of the world.

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3 hours ago, -Dino said:

Well most American's don't really give a fuck about Australian Liberal's - just saying 

And particularly fucking redneck American NRA members.  Batshit crazy raving loonies.

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1 hour ago, SloopJonB said:

With that statement you officially labelled yourself a right winger. 

Mikey is a 36,000+ post right wing shill.  Picked him years ago.

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19 hours ago, Mismoyled Jiblet. said:
On 7/3/2019 at 4:03 AM, Importunate Tom said:

It's hard for me to get past my American blindness and see the community benefit of grabbers confiscating collections of disabled guns from museums.

It looks a heck of a lot more like some Aussies don't see the benefit either, but are, well, obedient is a good word.

Oh look, the troll crawled out from under the bridge to a new thread in part of his morning shitposting spree to exaggerate and lie about the same stale bullshit.

No, confiscating museum collections is a real thing and the (non) reaction from Aussies here is too. It seems ridiculous to me but if you want to see people defend or ignore it, have a look for yourself:

 

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10 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

No, confiscating museum collections is a real thing and the (non) reaction from Aussies here is too. It seems ridiculous to me but if you want to see people defend or ignore it, have a look for yourself:

 

If course it's a real thing.

When you're hung like the average Aussie male, guns are irrelevant.

No matter what you think, that's not a dick!

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41 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:

No, confiscating museum collections is a real thing and the (non) reaction from Aussies here is too. It seems ridiculous to me but if you want to see people defend or ignore it, have a look for yourself:

 

Speaking of Right Wing Shills.  Here is one that make Mikey look lazy.  54,000+ posts.

Same old pattern of blanketing the forum with NRA viewpoints... and again this one wasn't about gunz.  Do you think he is , ahh, that new NRA sock whatever his name is?  The New Hampshire transplant to Florida?

Edit: just checked, Dino, is Dino a Tom sock?

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27 minutes ago, Ease the sheet. said:

If course it's a real thing.

When you're hung like the average Aussie male, guns are irrelevant.

No matter what you think, that's not a dick!

Hah! Obsequious obedience is a sign of manhood, huh?

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1 hour ago, Importunate Tom said:

Hah! Obsequious obedience is a sign of manhood, huh?

We don't care for guns. A concept that you don't seem to understand.

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1 minute ago, Ease the sheet. said:

We don't care for guns. A concept that you don't seem to understand.

On 5/5/2019 at 7:55 AM, Ease the sheet. said:

Our main museum used to have a big collection of weapons, from olden days to the 1980's, including a lot of German and Japanese war booty from both world wars.

It disappeared when the museum moved to a new building. Disappointing and an overreaction in my opinion.

Lithgow was the manufacturer of a lot of stuff and still is a supplier to the military.

It's would be a shame if this museum had to fold.


Why would it be a shame if a museum you don't care for had to close?

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13 minutes ago, Importunate Tom said:


Why would it be a shame if a museum you don't care for had to close?

Because it's interesting? Maybe even educational?

 

But I'm happy to bring it back to my purposely taken out of context quote by letting you know why it's closing.

Because we don't give a fuck.

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1 hour ago, Ease the sheet. said:

Because it's interesting? Maybe even educational?

 

But I'm happy to bring it back to my purposely taken out of context quote by letting you know why it's closing.

Because we don't give a fuck.

Exactly. There are some bus & tram museums about the place. If they closed, I wouldn't care either. Someone who gives a fuck can fight those battles.

Can't see Tom taking to the streets in protest if a Barbie museum was being closed down. Well maybe he would.

Just as long as the maritime museums stay open, it's all good.

FKT

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On 7/1/2019 at 10:46 PM, Mid said:

I disagree. We may look shaky at the moment but our forefathers were well aware that we would one day have a president who wanted to be a despot. They put multiple checks on executive power for that reason. If one check decides to abdicate it’s responsibility, others will hold firm. This has been a true test of our system and the results so far have exceeded my expectations.

That’s not to say that there won’t be much to clean up after the circus leaves town, both at home and abroad. There have always been some real pieces of shit in our country but they mostly stayed quiet and out of sight until Trump lured them out into the open. They need to be sent back under their rocks. 

The Oligarchy needs to be taught that the masses of working people allow them to live, not vice versa. The peaceful way will be to end the corporate purchase of our government and the use of the media to divide the masses. Without those, it will not end well. You need look no farther than Oct 08 to see how quickly our government can spin the wheels of the legislature when the rich folks’ livelihoods are at stake. 

As we put our house in order we can mend fences with our neighbors. Reliable? Yes, the US is still reliable, and will be for a great long while. 

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On 7/3/2019 at 3:00 AM, random said:

us Hahahahaaaaaa

tenor.gif?itemid=6165317

That's one of the best "FUCK YOU I GOT MINE" examples I've seen for a while.

Consider this though, none of us give two fucks what you think, we just like telling you how fucked you are.

 

Kick us when we are already down.....that is cruel!

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1 hour ago, Sol Rosenberg said:

I disagree. We may look shaky at the moment but our forefathers were well aware that we would one day have a president who wanted to be a despot. They put multiple checks on executive power for that reason. If one check decides to abdicate it’s responsibility, others will hold firm. This has been a true test of our system and the results so far have exceeded my expectations.

That’s not to say that there won’t be much to clean up after the circus leaves town, both at home and abroad. There have always been some real pieces of shit in our country but they mostly stayed quiet and out of sight until Trump lured them out into the open. They need to be sent back under their rocks. 

The Oligarchy needs to be taught that the masses of working people allow them to live, not vice versa. The peaceful way will be to end the corporate purchase of our government and the use of the media to divide the masses. Without those, it will not end well. You need look no farther than Oct 08 to see how quickly our government can spin the wheels of the legislature when the rich folks’ livelihoods are at stake. 

As we put our house in order we can mend fences with our neighbors. Reliable? Yes, the US is still reliable, and will be for a great long while. 

Man, especially on this day, I wish I shared your optimism.  I look across the street at my neighbor's big ass "Trump 2020" flag though and realize that the people that came "out into the open" at 40ish %, actually represent a functional majority as probably 20 to 30% of the remainder just don't give a fuck.  That 40ish% seems to not care at all about the constitution, laws, checks, etc.  If Trump does win a second term, which in my opinion is very likely, he and his supporters will take it as a mandate to pretty much ignore all laws and morals and establish a very different government.  It could be the end of the 200+ year of the USofA experiment.

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4 hours ago, Importunate Tom said:

Hah! Obsequious obedience is a sign of manhood, huh?

says the liar who thinks posting a picture of pooh makes him a revolutionary.

why do so many fucking yanks think their cliched lockstep individualism makes them unique and manly? shooting TVs in your yard doesn't make you manly dogballs, it makes you a jackass that never grew up. 

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57 minutes ago, Saorsa said:

US is no longer willing to pay for everyone's defense.

 

Everyones defense? From?

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34 minutes ago, bridhb said:

Man, especially on this day, I wish I shared your optimism.  I look across the street at my neighbor's big ass "Trump 2020" flag though and realize that the people that came "out into the open" at 40ish %, actually represent a functional majority as probably 20 to 30% of the remainder just don't give a fuck.  That 40ish% seems to not care at all about the constitution, laws, checks, etc.  If Trump does win a second term, which in my opinion is very likely, he and his supporters will take it as a mandate to pretty much ignore all laws and morals and establish a very different government.  It could be the end of the 200+ year of the USofA experiment.

I live in the heart of Trump country, so I see it too. The US is strong enough to survive another year of the Pride of the GOP in the AltRight House, or five more. What he has done is forced nearly everyone to take sides. There’s about 35% who will support anything he does, other than switching parties. They see people with different political views as their enemy. They get to bear that cross (pun intended) forever. We will look back on this time with the same shame with which we view the era of Japanese concentration camps. 

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On 7/3/2019 at 9:09 AM, mikewof said:

We know where Australia is, regardless The Chasers. It's just you don't give us much to form an opinion, you're a small country. So we have an idealized view of Australia, and since it's so far away, and so few of us have actually been there, we leave it at that. We rarely need to challenge our ideas of Australia because there is so little Australia in our lives to challenge our assumptions.

Australians have a more expansive view of the USA because you consume our culture. We're enormous compared to you.

But what happens when I apply the same population ratio of USA:Australia (about 13:1) to Australia? What do most Australians think of Equatorial Guinea or Gambia? Can Australians pick out Latvia on an unmarked map better than Americans can pick out the Continent of Australia on a map?

I never thought of it this way. It sheds new light on the constant, somewhat annoying ankle biting. Like your pet Chihuahua that takes out its frustrations by chewing your ankles, if it were any bigger it might actually be painful.

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1 hour ago, VhmSays said:

Everyones defense? From?

From Europe mostly.  Defending the remnants and results of their empires around the world.

Of course, they are afraid to lose the Russian oil titty now.

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11 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

With that statement you officially labelled yourself a right winger.

They are the only ones too clueless to understand why the rest of the world is so interested in what goes on in the USA.

They are also the only ones too ignorant to know or care about what goes on in the rest of the world.

I'm a lefty, but I'm starting to wonder what a lefty even is these days, where black is white and 2+2=5.

People have their lives to concern themselves. Australia is a large continent with a small population that just doesn't have a lot of impact on our world due to that small population.

I'm fascinated by Australia BECAUSE it's a large continent with a small population that doesn't have a lot of impact on our world due to that small population.

The vast majority of Americans and Canadians and Europeans here on PA seem to care so little about Australia that they rarely even comment. I comment on Australia because I love Australia, and because I lived there, and I'm endlessly intrigued by it. So I show my interest in Australia, and then a few of the usual suspects get angry and tell me that I don't know anything about Australia and then they either post memes or insult me.

So let me get this straight ...

An American shows interest in Australia, tries to add to the conversation out of the echo chamber that often is the Australians talking about Australia. I get shit on for daring to have an opinion about Australia, and then Australians get angry that Americans aren't interested in Australia.

If I didn't live down there and know better from my actual life down there, based on idiots like Random and a few others, I would rationally conclude that Australia is run by a gaggle of pure idiots. Fortunately, I did live there, and I know better. People like Random and a handful of others have turned themselves into caricatures of intelligence.

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16 hours ago, Grrr... said:

Oh come on.  It's MikefullofbloviatingBS.  Just point out that the idea that someone would "invade" another country like that across any stretch of water like that is absurd, and watch him dance trying to prove you wrong.

This isn't 1944, and people have ways of seeing boats long before they get to your shoreline to "invade".

Preaching to the choir. If you bothered to read, you wouldn't need to have posted.

I wrote that I would rather spend 0% of our revenue on defense. That's because the days of military invasions have given way to economic invasions. And an economic invasion operates in full view with close to 100% legality.

Coastline a is a function of defense cost regardless than there are few physical invasions any longer. Australia economizes on defense costs and brings that wealth into literacy, public health, higher education and  economy. They're making smart decisions. We spend too much (in my opinion) on old defense. But to be fair, part of the reason that Australia isn't invaded by coastline anymore could in fact be due the global stability made possible by superpowers and the era of nuclear weapons.

And oddly, even in this era of economic warfare, superpowers and hydrogen bombs, countries still invade each other regularly. Why is that?

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18 hours ago, random said:
  • Because we have been stupid enough to get dragged into every illegal invasion the US has been part of.
  • Because we are a very large aircraft carrier floating in a strategically important part of the planet.

But think about the flaw in your argument.  First you say the 'so many Americans list you guys as a top ally", then you acknowledge that most Americans know fuck all about us, other than sporting cliches?

We don't know much about Australia because the contribution from Australia to our culture, technologies and conversation is minimal.

And yet, we still consider Australia a key ally, many of us even consider your country our number one ally. That seems to make you angry. But that's because you're an idiot.

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1 hour ago, mikewof said:

Preaching to the choir. If you bothered to read, you wouldn't need to have posted.

I wrote that I would rather spend 0% of our revenue on defense. That's because the days of military invasions have given way to economic invasions. And an economic invasion operates in full view with close to 100% legality.

Coastline a is a function of defense cost regardless than there are few physical invasions any longer. Australia economizes on defense costs and brings that wealth into literacy, public health, higher education and  economy. They're making smart decisions. We spend too much (in my opinion) on old defense. But to be fair, part of the reason that Australia isn't invaded by coastline anymore could in fact be due the global stability made possible by superpowers and the era of nuclear weapons.

And oddly, even in this era of economic warfare, superpowers and hydrogen bombs, countries still invade each other regularly. Why is that?

You're like a sawed off shotgun.  Every time you take a shot the pellets go everywhere but where you supposedly aimed them.  Keep it up.

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On 7/2/2019 at 10:10 AM, mikewof said:

No, I think it's mostly historical and cultural.

Your population is so small, and your country so far away that it can't really be too much else. My uncle was the prototype of that. His number one ally would have been Australia because he spent most of his career flying missions around the South Pacific, and Australia was something of an oasis of shared culture, far away from home.

The old joke is that New Zealand is the most British place on Earth, and Australia is the most American place on Earth. From the perspective of cultural touchstones, like massive football games, mobile phones, car racing, barbeques, suburban culture, brewing beer, getting addicted to shit television shows, and getting in over our heads with debt to live the good life, Australia and the USA are probably more similar than even the USA and Canada.

Just the fact that so many Americans place our number one Ally as a country over 10,000 miles away, rather than the Canadians and Mexicans who are right next door, should tell you something. Heck, Mexicans love us so much that they literally build our homes, grow our food and keep everything running while we put them in prison and insult them. 

 It's because it's full of white people. 

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3 hours ago, chum said:

Well, there is this...

 

 

Mexico is hotter than Australia. 

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On 7/3/2019 at 5:29 AM, Shootist Jeff said:

If the AUS military want something different, then you’ll better start leaning Mandarin. 

They can make their own. 

Image result for mad max contraptions

 

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On 7/2/2019 at 5:26 AM, Fah Kiew Tu said:

That demonstrates how little you know about Australia, really.

Invading most of our coastline gets you nowhere as long as we could cut off resupply. It's a hell of a long way to anywhere on the west and most of the south coast, a good deal of the north coast as well. Plus no or really lousy roads and no supplies to support more than a handful of invaders.

Could it be done? Sure, but only with one hell of a logistic tail. I don't lose much sleep over it.

It is why I was very much in favour of leasing/buying US made nuke subs though rather than pissing money down a South Australian rat hole building our own. But that has a lot of legs yet. At least your subs actually work, unlike some of your aircraft.....

FKT

Wolfy knocks jackshit about almost everything.  Doesn’t stop him from talking about it.

At length...

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

I'm a lefty, but I'm starting to wonder what a lefty even is

Mikeythreequotes.thumb.jpg.5ebefa3c2698f2a16d373ee4888f293b.jpg

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4 hours ago, mikewof said:

If I didn't live down there and know better from my actual life down there, based on idiots like Random and a few others, I would rationally conclude that Australia is run by a gaggle of pure idiots. Fortunately, I did live there, and I know better. People like Random and a handful of others have turned themselves into caricatures of intelligence.

The irony of cliff throwing insults about dipshits online.

WTF is "our" culture in the US? We're a polyglot amalgamation of micro communitys that are increasingly globally interwoven. In some - like, oh, sailing for one surfing for another - Australia has a fairly substantial influence. Other areas (say nordic skiing) not quite so much.

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5 hours ago, mikewof said:

f I didn't live down there and know better from my actual life down there, based on idiots like Random and a few others, I would rationally conclude that Australia is run by a gaggle of pure idiots. Fortunately, I did live there, and I know better. People like Random and a handful of others have turned themselves into caricatures of intelligence.

MikeyPhD.thumb.jpg.4e95f3c10816e64ea8117fc941768acc.jpg

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7 hours ago, mikewof said:

If I didn't live down there and know better from my actual life down there, based on idiots like Random and a few others, I would rationally conclude that Australia is run by a gaggle of pure idiots. Fortunately, I did live there, and I know better. People like Random and a handful of others have turned themselves into caricatures of intelligence.

You didn't learn much, then, because it mostly *is* run by a gaggle of idiots.

The saving grace is that, with rare exceptions, it's not run by a gaggle of the outright crazies like Random, or the left-wing bleeding hearts like Meli. But they'd like to. Fortunately with compulsory voting the sane outvote them.

FKT

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8 hours ago, mikewof said:

People like Random and a handful of others have turned themselves into caricatures of intelligence.

Awe thanks Mikey.

At least I am not a right wing shill pretending to be a lefty!

MikeyObama.jpg.fdcf396f85aac8f6ba50e894b4ea3e09.jpg

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3 hours ago, random said:

Awe thanks Mikey.

At least I am not a right wing shill pretending to be a lefty!

MikeyObama.jpg.fdcf396f85aac8f6ba50e894b4ea3e09.jpg

Y'know, most people don't need to be a scientist to know the difference between climate and weather.

 

But you are not one of those people.

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6 hours ago, random said:

MikeyFireCauses.jpg.56d8d5f1872df47701cc847e3fee15a4.jpg

That's a good quote from me. It's explained by something called the "Claussius Clapyron relationship." Lots of people have learned about it.

 

But you are not one of those people.

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