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Maldwin

How much to pay a Captain

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  Good Evening All,

 I wonder what the going rate might be for a Captain, possibly a couple to run a 44ft classic boat for a World Arc. Would probably be 2 years work with prep, etc...

   Best,

     Maldwin 

 

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23 minutes ago, Troglodytarum said:

if you have to ask...

... then you can't afford me...  :P

 

And 44ft is a bit small for a full pro captain and mate. A bit more info on the boat and owner/crew/guests/family/age/experience would help though.

 

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 Cherubini 44. I am the owner, have sailed from Cairns to Phuket on a friend’s boat, crossed the Atlantic on a friend’s powerboat, sailed my Friendship Sloop Around Maine, ran my power boats multiple times from Maine to FL, done the great loop in one of my powerboats. Most of the power boats dated from the 50s and 60s, so I am experienced in vintage boats. I don’t have any experience crossing an ocean in command, thus the need for a Captain. I realize it is a bit small for crew, but I have always gotten along with my crew, paid, and unpaid so we should be able to make it work. Of course, I am not looking for service beyond sailing experience. 

   Many thanks,

    Maldwin 

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Sounds like you have a lot more boat and experience than the majority who cross oceans.

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full time captain 60' or less is $60-70K annual. Small boat captain is typically engineer type doing 40K in maintenance annually so the 60-70 is a bargain

 

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If your doing the world ARC, just get a young couple......The event is so well supported you don’t need to pay someone who’ll probably end up trying to become ¨the captain¨.

A young couple will still respect you as the owner & their boss, & you’ll get people to do the maintenance, cooking, cleaning etc etc. Pay them a few grand a month, cover their expenses, give them an occasional night in a hotel, they’re about to have the experience of a lifetime, make sure its yours also.....

 

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The young couple idea is good as long as you have a stomach for occasional drama. 

And make sure you pay for a real fucking background check please!  Small price to pay.

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19 minutes ago, Greyhound37 said:

full time captain 60' or less is $60-70K annual. Small boat captain is typically engineer type doing 40K in maintenance annually so the 60-70 is a bargain

 

That was the rate over 30 years ago then again a 60' then is a 100' today.

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12 hours ago, SloopJonB said:

Sounds like you have a lot more boat and experience than the majority who cross oceans.

+1

Just go out there and figure it out.

If you do hire someone, you need to be VERY clear as to their role. An owner can fire a captain, but before that he is in charge of YOU. How many people total do you plan on having aboard? Also, have you thought of hiring a sailing master?

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If you looking for adventure I think Chas from Tas is available. If not lord Ian Dubin might be free. I would skip the background checks however.

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I'd be willing to throw my hat into the ring for this.  I'm not a captain but I know my way around a boat.  I'm going to go do my coastal cruising standard this summer with CYA/Sail Canada and intend on working my way up.

I'm pretty easy to live with on a boat and sailing around the world is a life goal so I'm putting it out there.

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25 minutes ago, Tempest said:

I'd be willing to throw my hat into the ring for this.  I'm not a captain but I know my way around a boat.  I'm going to go do my coastal cruising standard this summer with CYA/Sail Canada and intend on working my way up.

I'm pretty easy to live with on a boat and sailing around the world is a life goal so I'm putting it out there.

Do you like Gladiator movies?

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3 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

Do you like Gladiator movies?

Did you park in the red zone?

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53 minutes ago, LB 15 said:

If you looking for adventure I think Chas from Tas is available. If not lord Ian Dubin might be free. I would skip the background checks however.

How on earth could have left Hoppy off your list?

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Might be a bit far offshore for Meat balls.

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1 hour ago, LB 15 said:

Do you like Gladiator movies?

 

1 hour ago, Cal20sailor said:

Did you park in the red zone?

Obviously I'm missing something

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I am interested.

Licensed Captain and I need an excursion across a big body of water.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, proOC said:

I am interested.

Licensed Captain and I need an excursion across a big body of water.

 

 

Do you like to hang around gymnasiums?

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Thousands of blue water miles~~~awaiting your call

 

RRimas.jpg

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On 7/7/2019 at 9:48 PM, Maldwin said:

 Cherubini 44. I am the owner, have sailed from Cairns to Phuket on a friend’s boat, crossed the Atlantic on a friend’s powerboat, sailed my Friendship Sloop Around Maine, ran my power boats multiple times from Maine to FL, done the great loop in one of my powerboats. Most of the power boats dated from the 50s and 60s, so I am experienced in vintage boats. I don’t have any experience crossing an ocean in command, thus the need for a Captain. I realize it is a bit small for crew, but I have always gotten along with my crew, paid, and unpaid so we should be able to make it work. Of course, I am not looking for service beyond sailing experience. 

   Many thanks,

    Maldwin 

unless you really just want to be a passenger - and it doesn't sound as if you do.., you do not need a captain.

those rallys mostly sail pretty forgiving routes

i think if you get a captain, you will pretty quickly realize you don't need or even want one.

a huge part of the value of a professional crew is their ability to fix things - but it sounds as if you are okay at that.

you should definitely do some sort of offshore passage before the rally starts - stuff that is going to break will break, things that need to be set up differently will make themselves obvious and so on. i would recommend 500 -750 miles or more. 

also, you will gain the confidence you need to begin the rally as captain of your boat.

Bermuda and back would be great - but it's the wrong time of year now...

when and where does it start?

what you will probably need is crew - plenty of experienced sailors will do legs on the rally for free, possibly even paying their own travel, although for some you might need to help with that. if you get stuck, you can hire crew, but you will need to pay travel for them, which could be more than their salary for some exotic locations.

 

 

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I think one one big thing you should work on is a good downwind rig for the boat.

so spend the captains salary on sails - if you don't already have what's needed.

some of the long legs on those rallys are pretty deep downwind.

those are nice looking boats.., but i have never been on one - ask owners what they do downwind, and what kind of spinnakers they have.

many cruisers on those routes don't fly a spinnaker - but you should.., at least during the day when it's less squally. a spinnaker for that boat won't be that big and if you have two on watch you can get it up and down as needed. i doubt you will be one of the faster boats.., so you will need all the speed you can get.

many people just pole out the jib and sail DDW, but that's slow and uncomfortable, as shallow draft boats like yours tend to roll like crazy in that setup. do that at night.., if you feel the need.., but you should get to the point that you are comfortable with the spinnaker before the rally starts.

furling spinnakers are great, but i doubt one will work that well on the DDW legs- you will have to head up too much, with not enough gain in speed. you need a runner. 

you will definitely need a pole so you can pole out the jib.., but it's possible that on that boat the spinnakers can be asym's - maybe a furling A3 and a non-furling A4 would be good. 

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10 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Call SailOPO and talk to Hank.. He'll fix you up with a qualified crew and they might end up paying you   

https://www.sailopo.com/h1.aspx

 

 

Well that isn’t a good idea. Research is your friend before using OPO

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53 minutes ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Well that isn’t a good idea. Research is your friend before using OPO

I'll second Clean on that!  The worst crew I have ever had onboard came from OPO. I was hired to skipper a Trans-At on a big cat and the owner had already signed up with a couple of clowns from OPO. I wasn't thrilled with the idea and wanted to interview the two but it was a bit late to dismiss them and they were fucking idiots. I considered not taking the job as I didn't have a high opinion of OPO in the first place, but I had previously done and ocean delivery for the owner and his brother and that trip had gone well. If there had been a islan d within range, I would have put one of the OPO bozos off the boat. I took him off the watch and duty roster for a couple of days and he finally got them message that he just couldn't steer any course that he wanted.  Don't get me started...

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2 hours ago, MR.CLEAN said:

Well that isn’t a good idea. Research is your friend before using OPO

Most of the time, Free is Too Much!

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1 hour ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

Using first hand experience on your boat?  Or just jerking off again?  

When is that Strom Trysail secret report coming that you promised? 

Be useful and stay in your lane.  Find out what Jennifer Appel is up to today and report back to us! 

Lol. It doesn’t take long to find reasons to stay away from free delivery services. OPO or otherwise. And yeah I was a transatlantic delivery skipper for six years and I’d tell some stories if there weren’t already plenty out there. Are you pimping Hank because of your association with him?  Im sure he’ll love being associated with your deviant shit.

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19 minutes ago, MakePHRFGreatAgain said:

hahah sure shit happens I'm not suggesting to blindly take any crew bozo.  There is also a good network of pro and amateur captains/crew that  can be developed in and out of network and Maldwin can also catch a delivery here and there and pick up some experience.    

 

one for one.  Anyone have a great experience with MAGAPHRF’s favorite company’s employees (they’re not of course. They’re mostly free or paying labor, or they were when i was running into them)

 

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On 7/8/2019 at 9:56 AM, jack_sparrow said:

That was the rate over 30 years ago then again a 60' then is a 100' today.

Over the road truck drivers get roughly the same pay as they did in the mid ‘80’s when diesel fuel was subsidized by the US government. 

Imagine getting .35US dollar per mile just like your Dad did...

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On 7/10/2019 at 12:21 PM, Rasputin22 said:

I'll second Clean on that!  The worst crew I have ever had onboard came from OPO. I was hired to skipper a Trans-At on a big cat and the owner had already signed up with a couple of clowns from OPO. I wasn't thrilled with the idea and wanted to interview the two but it was a bit late to dismiss them and they were fucking idiots. I considered not taking the job as I didn't have a high opinion of OPO in the first place, but I had previously done and ocean delivery for the owner and his brother and that trip had gone well. If there had been a islan d within range, I would have put one of the OPO bozos off the boat. I took him off the watch and duty roster for a couple of days and he finally got them message that he just couldn't steer any course that he wanted.  Don't get me started...

 

OMG,  I cannot imagine someone being that stoopid!!

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Honestly. Most "pro" captains who are interested in running a 44ft boat will likely have less experience than you, has a zero to hero yachtmaster and is looking to get a foot in the door.

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1 minute ago, billy backstay said:

 

OMG,  I cannot imagine someone being that stoopid!!

Billy, the guy just couldn't understand VMG sailing. A week into the passage he decided that I didn't know what I was doing broad reaching all over the Atlantic and figured I was just stretching out the trip since I was on a daily rate. I had shown him for days just where the sweet spot was for VMG was for a downwind destination (St Martin) but his peabrain thought that the rhumbline was the only answer. It got to where during his night watch he would just put the bow right towards the destination regardless of how the sails were trimmed. I would bet awaken by the sails flogging around and gibes and the boat going DDW or worse (by the lee) and come up on deck and he would see my cabin light come on and get back on the course to steer I had given him at the beginning of his watch! He didn't realise I could check his snake wake in my bunk using my IPhone and a nav app. I kept trying with the guy but when he started getting all surrepticious in that manner I took out the STM waypoint on the boats big central nav unit so he could not use that at the repeater on the helm. I snuck up one night and found him using his own personal GPS unit to carry out his mutinous intent and that was the last straw. I flipped on the cabin lights after filming his antics for a couple of minutes and told him he could go get some sleep and I would take over. He stammered a bit and I took the helm and headed up about 30° and the boat speed doubled and told him to just be grateful for the extra sleep and that I had been unable to sleep with all the flogging and slatting for the last couple of hours.

    Next morning I had a chat with the owner and told him that we were going to have a big 'all hands on deck' crew meeting after our usual big communal 'Brunch'. After the galley was cleared away, I turned on the big screen TV/DVR on which I had cued up a segment of Russell Crowe as Capt Jack Aubrey in 'Master and Commander'. It had taken a bit to find just the right passage on the old VCR but it only took me about 15 seconds to find it just now on Google. I'll share it here now before I continue.

 

    After the clip was over, I didn't say a word, just walked over to the chalkboard on the galley bulkhead where we had the watch schedule posted and picked up the eraser and deleted my rebels name from the roster. I then asked if they wanted to finish the movie before I went to take my noon watch at the helm.

     The guy begged me for three days to let him back on the duty roster and I finally decided the reality of the situation had sunk in on him and put him back on duty and in another couple days he could VMG sail with no problems.

    Oh, I forgot, before I started the movie, I asked for all crew to put their personal GPS units on the table and it turned out the two OPO guys each had TWO units and were using TRUE instead of magnetic and even different map datums so now wonder there was so much confusion between their 'back seat driving' compared to the boats 'main frame' nav.

    Of course I had my little standby Garmin and my Laptop as well as my Iphone and the owner had an Ipad running something or other and even the only other crew (the owners brother and who was pretty far into the Aspberger's spectrum) had a GPS of some sort. I counted up and we had a total of 13 GPS solutions on board! The boats plotter resolution was for shit so I proclaimed my laptop as the official Ships Log and Nav System and confiscated all the rest except for the owners IPad (which was surprisingly good once we got that set up).

     One reason I was so dissapointed in the OPO guys was the fact that the brother was a big challenge especially offshore and he Owner and myself were what one might consider 'able bodied (and minded)' and as it turned out I could trust the brother far more than the OPO guys. He turned out to be especially good with the electronics and was a wizard with the radar and could dial in the gain and clutter and get a cleaner return than I ever could. The owner and I kept his watch between our watches and I would spend an extra half hour with him at the beginning of his watch to get him dialed in especially at night. His brother would come up when I went down and catnap on the settee or in the cockpit but it was a bit disconcerting to me to think of coming up and finding him not on the boat. One night I did come up mid watch to find the owner snoozing away in the cockpit and no sign of the brother. He often got distracted with the helm on autopilot and I would find him zoned in on the radar but he was not there so I checked the heads to no avail. I panicked and ran back to the cockpit and finally noticed him up on the bow holding onto the seagull striker hidden by the tack of the jib. I had made a strict rule of harness/floatation vests on at night and if you had a need to leave the cockpit the wake someone up. He had clipped in to the jackline and he had spotted a radar return which he was convinced was a ocean going tug and a tow about a mile behind. Our course would have taken us between the two so his vigilance was greatly appreciated but his brother and I gave him a joint dressing down the next morning which he took well. Turned out that he had gotten the radar so well tuned in that it was actually picked up the wake of the containership and the extra ping that looked like the barge was an echo shadow of the ship.

Anyway, at sea, MEN MUST BE GOVERNED!!!

     I understood better after that trip why Captains and ships officers NEVER taught the seamen anything about navigation...

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Is there a frying pan aboard?

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4 hours ago, billy backstay said:

OMG,  I cannot imagine someone being that stoopid!!

I was an unpaid skipper/navigator on a short trip (Los Angeles --> Lahaina) with an OWNER that was that stoopid!

Whenever I would go to sleep, the owner and his friends would take down the spinnaker and gollywobler and raise the white sails. I would come on deck after a few hours of shut-eye to find the boat 100+ degrees off course with the owner as happy as a clam.

Me: "Hawaii is that way" <pointing 100 degrees to port>.
Owner: "Schooners like to reach!"
Me: "Yes they do. But Hawaii is over there; you're pointing at Alaska." (he was actually steering directly toward the center of the Pacific high)
Owner: "Well I'm not in a hurry..."

So I'd take a couple of sights (pre-GPS), rummage around for some food, read a bit until the owner would steer us completely out of the wind into the high. Then we'd turn on the engine and set a course to get us back in the trades as quickly as possible. Half a day of motoring and the owner would get bored and go below. We'd put the spinny and golly back up, shut off the engine, and enjoy some good tradewinds sailing until the owner would come back on deck and undo all our gains.

Repeat that scene every single fucking day for over a week. Eventually we started to need to ration diesel fuel.

My favorite line from that voyage:
Me: "We'll never get to Hawaii if you keep pointing the boat at Alaska..."
Owner: "What are you? Hung up about time?"
Me {silently, to myself): "No. I'm hung up about food and water..."

 


 

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Thank fuck I was subjected to that!  Then again, I’m pretty fussy about who I go sailing with, sail with idiots like that and people get hurt or worse. 

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That ok for you guys-Even siglehanding I have to sail with an idiot.

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Just now, LB 15 said:

Even siglehanding I have to sail with an idiot.

I could never stand my own company long enough to consider solo sailing. 

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On a delivery to Hawaii, we had 10 on board a 50'er.  Owner's friends mostly, with a couple of sailors.  Into the tradewinds, we started to settle into a two on, two stand-by and six enjoying life, except the first night under spinnaker, I was semi-asleep down below when I heard the pair on deck say:  "What do we do now?  Isn't 70 degrees heading back to LA?"   So I popped up on deck and saw that they had managed to tack the spinnaker through the forestay and were making about 2 knots due east with the helm hard over. They had been pinned like that for almost and hour and they had no idea what do, but - like guys everywhere - were too embarrassed to ask for help.  

So I said, Let's try this and see if we get lucky." spun the  wheel the other way. Magically the kite blew through the forestay triangle, popped open, right on course and I quietly settled in to drive the rest of their watch.  My wife came up to trim.  However, the owner - a very good sailor - heard the kite refill with the typical whomp and stuck his head up next, wondering what was happening.  I gave him an edited version, trying to keep everybody happy.   He figured it out, though, and settled in to join me and my wife and sent the pair off to snooze.   Next morning, he called an all hands meeting and announced that from that point on only six people were allowed to drive and only four at night.  When he included my wife in the night time drivers, she was a bit surprised, as she'd sailed a lot, but never been across an ocean before. 

But she completely got it, and the two of us had a great time sliding along to the islands all alone on deck for our starlit four hours each night, until the owner and his wife came up for their turn.  It helped that it was not a squally year.

So, a little targeted crew management can end up being good for everybody.

 

 

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$1000/day for a one-off trip with a captain qualified for ocean passages + travel home.

Does that seem ridiculous?  I have charged that in the past and no one really seemed to balk at that.  I don't work as a captain anymore but that seemed to be the going rate 10 years ago for stuff like this.

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23 minutes ago, EquusAsinusDomesticus said:

$1000/day for a one-off trip with a captain qualified for ocean passages + travel home.

Does that seem ridiculous?  I have charged that in the past and no one really seemed to balk at that.  I don't work as a captain anymore but that seemed to be the going rate 10 years ago for stuff like this.

It's reasonable for someone with the ticket and professional insurance.  A brand new 100 ton or Yachtmaster without much history will get you maybe $400/day or so these days.  Lots of kids out there looking for work.

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On 7/8/2019 at 11:39 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

If you do hire someone, you need to be VERY clear as to their role. An owner can fire a captain, but before that he is in charge of YOU.

Read the following book for a tale of how a drunken, irresponsible paid captain ruined an owner’s trip-of-a-lifetime.

19588006.jpg

On 7/10/2019 at 2:16 AM, Tempest said:

I'd be willing to throw my hat into the ring for this.  I'm not a captain but I know my way around a boat.  I'm going to go do my coastal cruising standard this summer with CYA/Sail Canada and intend on working my way up.

I'm pretty easy to live with on a boat and sailing around the world is a life goal so I'm putting it out there.

Troll alert!

o-INTERNET-TROLL-facebook.jpg

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I actually don't get the captain idea to start with. If I wanted to ride around as a passenger, cruise ships have swimming pools, air conditioning, and are cheaper.

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There was a young couple on youtube a few years ago attempting to sail around the world (I know, a shockingly original youtube channel).  Instead of just setting off on their own and doing stupid & dangerous things they hired a professional captain for the first couple passages.  After just a couple days they were going under a drawbridge with the "pro" at the helm when the girl, with limited sailing experience, starts yelling at the captain, "Uh our mast isn't going to clear the drawbridge".  The captain starts arguing back that there's plenty of room.  There wasn't.  Mast catches the drawbridge and destroys the boat beyond repair.  You could probably get that captain for cheap, just don't have him at the helm under a bridge.

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On 7/10/2019 at 6:12 AM, BravoBravo said:

Thousands of blue water miles~~~awaiting your call

 

RRimas.jpg

He must be available still, he's hanging in the older of the two Oak Harbor SBUX this morning drinking coffee and surfing the web on a tablet.

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On 7/13/2019 at 12:13 AM, kent_island_sailor said:

I actually don't get the captain idea to start with. If I wanted to ride around as a passenger, cruise ships have swimming pools, air conditioning, and are cheaper.

Hahahahaha good one!

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We are in Western Panama and have met a couple in this year's world arc and talked about it a little. They take care of most of the logistics.  You might look for a captain to take the boat from St Lucia to the Marquesas with the option to extend.  It will give you the opportunity to go through the logistics and paperwork shuffle for several large items canal and a few countries and get one of the bigger passeges under your belt.  Not too big of a time commitment for a captain so you can up your budget some to get somebody good.  By the time you get to Tahiti you will know if you are comfortable or not with the rest.

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